Why are web novels written so poorly? There's never a main character who isn't meant for the reader to insert themselves into, every work follows the same overused premises just because they're trending with idiotic otaku who eat this garbage up (e.g. "I reincarnated into a monster!" or "I was teleported to a fantasy world that functions like an MMORPG!"), world building is usually nonexistent or amateurishly and sparsely established at best, all of the girls' personalities pertain to wanting the MC's dick, the MC is too OP so the only drama that can arise from the narrative is throwing him in to situations where he has to be edgy, etc. etc.
Why can't the Japanese write something that's worth a damn? Hell, light novels aren't much of a step up either. OreGairu is probably the most well written novel from this medium that I've come across and even then, it's pretentious teen angst crap. Do they not have writing classes in Japan?
>>140927801
Most of everything is poorly done
>>140927801
Because they are junk food for the mind.
Note that light novels are not considered real literature by the Japs.
>>140927801
Humanity is just stumbling through life.
>>140927834
This.
>>140927801
Why don't you write your own fiction then? You'd probably help readjusting the average quality of those works, I'm sure of it.
>>140927801
Because nearly every single one of them were not professional writers and just random people who wanted to post their ideas (so usually, possibly good ideas but fairly shitty execution). That said, there are some gems among all the shit so it all works out.
>>140927928
I see what you're getting at. You don't need to be able to produce a better work in order to critique others'. These writers are likely far more creative than I am but that doesn't mean I'm unable to recognize poor writing or should not call it out.
>>140927801
my biggest issue with the slime ln is that he never has a huge obstacle or any trouble doing anything its always like i want to do this, oh damn i did it that was easy. cool premise dog shit story
>>140928128
You just described most web and light novels.
>>140928128
The problem is that by the time he faces the current big bad, he's strong enough to give the next antagonist a fight. Which takes away all suspense. That's why the later arcs are mostly just him sitting on his ass while his subordinates fight things out.
>>140927801
Because anyone can release web novels.
>Why can't the Japanese write something that's worth a damn?
Because you're retarded for using novels targeted at teens and young adults as a basis for Japanese literature as a whole.
>>140927801
They're just really hit or miss. The ones that usually turn out well include a shit ton of world building. Sadly a lot of the time like in the pic you posted the world is basically just a sandbox for the mc to fuck around in. Also the whole acquiring skills aspect always brings a lot of these monster ones down. The author loves to give a page long list of skills that you're expected to remember and give a shit about. But then again I actually enjoyed Overlord so what the fuck do I know.
Same barrier to entry as fanfiction, ie none, so of course the majority's going to be terrible. In general self-published works are pretty well scorned.
So what are the novels that do things right?
Pic related.
>>140928122
>not making your own hundred million dollar budget movie before criticising them
Smh
>>140928337
I'm obviously being fictitious when using light and web novels as a measurement of the quality of literature out of Japan. But my point still stands. Sure, anyone can write a web novel. But many of those novels end up published as light novels, too. You know, maybe I'm wrong in blaming the authors and should actually be focusing my criticism towards the people who who encourage these kinds of works and don't demand better.
>>140928427
>>140928555
Western YA Novels are largely the same way.
>>140928427
>>140928427
>>140927801
>Why can't the Japanese write something that's worth a damn?
Are you asking this legitimately or are you talking about light/web novels in general?
Because you are wrong and retarded to assume that those silly japs can't have good literature. Have you ever read Taiko? Or one of those billion other books they have in the "recommended reading" section on every resource on the web?
Same goes with Light Novels, I agree that a bunch of them are copy paste trash, but the occasional gem like ZeroMari or Zero no Tsukaima should keep you satisfied for a good amount of while. Hell, even SLAYERS is there.
I doubt you came here from old /lit/ or some other highbrow literature club, so my advice is to either lurk more, or fuck off.
In conclusion >>>/out/
>>140928626
The Hunger Games and Harry Potter immediately come to mind and I'd say they were far better than many of the Japanese novels I've read. But I'm not too familiar with Western YA novels in general.
>>140928555
Basically imagine if publishers decided to double down on the success of 50 Shades of Grey and encouraged the development of a sub-genre of similar works.
>>140927801
>Why are web novels written so poorly?
The main reason is because there's no barrier of entry.
Think about this for a moment.
Go to FanFiction.net or FictionPress or WattPad. Heck, even go to RoyalRoadL.
Now remember the fact that the only Japanese web novels we're getting are the ones that were barely alright enough that a translator decided to spend time regurgitating the author's power fantasies, and then remember that there are a lot worst that you probably have never read, and hopefully never will have to.
Just remember that professional literature usually has various barriers of entry, to prevent absolute crap from making it through. Not that those barriers are infallible, but it at least prevents the worst of it from making it to shelves.
>>140928801
A more accurate comparison/reference point would be all the clones of Hunger Games.
>>140928830
> web novels are literally fan fictions.
>>140928864
What would be the Japanese Hunger games? Escaflowne?I didn't watch it and am assuming its an isekai
>>140927801
Why don't you filter away works from the reincarnation genre? Or just search for genres that you like?
What are the genres that you like?
Something something 90% is shit etc.
I mean, like fuck. Have you even read all of the trashy western pulp fiction back in the day? There's a reason they call them pulp fiction.
>>140928801
There are a lot of shitty YA novels. And it gets really bad if you venture into the Amazon self-published stuff. I had to stop buying scifi/fantasy ebooks that weren't full price with a actual publisher because they were all so terrible.
>>140928830
>>140928916
So basically, because it's easier to get a decent artist to draw your shitty fanfiction, that's why these are so popular?
>>140927801
>Why are web novels written so poorly?
Because on average they're written by people that can't write, for every good one there's like a thousand pieces of garbage.
>>140928957
It's not that I don't like the premise of reincarnation but I've yet to see it done well. But in in general, I'm open to just about anything if it's executed properly. Romance, slice of life, sci-fi, fantasy, mystery, etc. I'd even read another dumb harem if the main character and those around him weren't so two-dimensional and the plot wasn't focused on killing the demon lord or whatever. I want something engaging and less of the status quo which tends to be the same regurgitated shit.
>>140929095
You should read Light Novels then, more QC is done for them. They are not free, but you should be able to buy them from amazon or bookwalker.
Light novels are usually nice and comfy which is a welcome change from western stuff. But I agree they're all terribly written.
From my understanding they're supposed to be something you read when you're stuck on your hour-long commute to work at 7am.
>>140929095
>but I've yet to see it done well
Out of curiosity, what do you think is a good way to play out this premise?
>>140928957
>>140929095
>reincarnation genre
Is this the same as the "transported to a fantasy world" genre? Or something different?
>>140928916
They are. Shit, most LNs are fan fiction quality as well and those get actually published.
>>140927801
have you considered to not read that?
or if you have already read one part, stop reading it if it's hurting you so much?
i think japanese light novel and web novel these days have a very clear hint in their title,
like "regarding reincarnated to slime" is a story about reincarnated to slime,
have you read the title before deciding to read it?
>>140927801
Web novels are essentially fanfiction-tier and are not considered literature.
>>140928427
>>140929190
I'm not entirely sure. On the spot, maybe being reincarnated into the same world around the time of your death and attempting to connect with the people you knew and loved while essentially starting from scratch.
>>140928830
>Not that those barriers are infallible,
As evident by the entirety of Young Adult genre these days, which seems to have collected all the would-be writers that somehow get their works published..
I love reading trashy LNs and WNs. As long as you take a break every now and then it's all cool.
Fuck. I just finished a week long Pratchettbinge to cleanse my palette of all the isekaishit and haremshit and now I'm ready to go back to a month garbage reading courtesy of all the nip writers out there.
Fucking fantastic.
>>140929239
It's effectively the same, but it takes on the route of having the character start over as a newborn.
A popular example, Mushoku Tensei, chronicles Rudy's entire new life in the fantasy world he's transported to, all the way from birth to death, as he tries to "make up for his past life's inadequacies".
There are also examples, like the OP, where the MC becomes some sort of monster, or goes to a world with game mechanics. Basically a lot of clones trying to see what hits the spot.
>>140929239
I think they mean reincarnated into a fantasy world i.e. isekai.
>>140929266
Who said it's hurting me? I'm simply sharing my opinion and posing a question. And just because a story is about a reincarnated slime doesn't mean it has to be bad.
>>140929239
It's (roughly) a rectangle is a square but not vice versa thing. Reincarnation without being transported to a fantasy world is very rare, but there are plenty of the latter that aren't reincarnation.
>>140927928
I can't build a car from scratch but I can tell the difference between a junker and a sports car.
>>140928427
Sevens would be a lot better if the harem aspect wasn't handled so damn poorly.
>>140929326
This was essentially me but over the course of much longer durations. I read most of the DxD novels and 6+ months later worked my way through the majority of Mushoku Tensei. I've just been at this point for a while now where I'm craving something like these novels but done better.
Chinkz WN is where its at.
>>140929529
Hell no.
>>140929492
Don't get your hopes up. I used to think like that when I first started reading shitty western fantasy during the 90s but now everything is pretty much fair game for me at this point. God knows the amount drivel I've read in my lifetime has turned my shitty taste practically infallible at this point.
>>140929529
Isn't everyone an edgy violent psychopath in those?
That's pretty much all I hear about 'em, all while people continue to praise them for some reason, like tearing a dude's limbs off out of spite is somehow a sign of good character development.
>>140928925
Battle Royale
>>140927801
Because anyone on the Internet can write one. We have that shit in the West too including garbage that becomes very successful, gets published for real, and then adapted into other mediums. Remember 50 shades of grey?
>>140929447
>why is junker is such a junk? why can't it as good as sports car? i'm using one of these junker and i'm so mad now
seriously... just use a sports car dude, not everybody hate using these junker
>>140929529
Why do a lot of people shit on wn for it being repetative but like edgefest chink shit
.>>140929617
I meant it in a way that hunger games started this YA fad of dystopian society and you are a special snowflake
>>140927801
Because you are reading the wrong WNs. If you want something so un-wishfufilling, so anti-self insert with the MC the most under-powered. I have something for you.
>>140929607
More deaths, exponentially higher power scaling, extreme arrogance everywhere, and strength is everything.
Can still be written well, but everything is predictable, but sometimes payoffs are worth it.
>>140929680
>being edgyshit somehow makes it better
Pfffft.
>>140929680
>Has unlimited tries.
>underpowered.
I don't think so.
>>140929680
Bait?
>>140929708
Because it isn't
>>140929737
The game saves randomly, he can't redo the same situation over and over.
Are there any english web novels that aren't dogshit with their prose, grammar, and story telling?
I heard good things about zombie knight but that turned out to be dogshit.
>>140928925
>What would be the Japanese Hunger games?
Battle Royale, why haven't you seen it?
>Escaflowne?
What?
>I didn't watch it and am assuming its an isekai
It's not
>>140929744
>it isn't
>image he posted literally shows its edgyshit
Come on now. You'll have to do better than that.
>>140929797
>zombie knight
>dog shit
>expect something called zombie knight to not be dog shit
>zombie knight kek
>>140929737
Think Ironman mode.
>>140928427
>>140927801
>what is Worm
>>140929797
Eh, give this one a try, see if you'll like it:
http://krytykal.org/daybreak/volume-1/chapter-1/
>>140929831
Mhrm, I would love to try and tell you alot of things but I'd be spoiling. So I'll say this.
The author is a sadist, not the edgy lol gore kind either. It permeates through multiple levels.
>>140929185
So how would you keep it nice and comfy while bring better written?
>>140929892
>Chapter 1 - The Curse of Prodigy
I'm already cringing.
>>140929797
Worm
>>140929892
I hate this shit.
>>140929869
>both Flamering and Deathgod TLs are on hiatus this month
What is even the point in living this month.
>>140929797
Isnt mother of learning and Fantasia supposedly good in all of those aspects?
>>140929797
Mother of learning
A Hero's war
But only if you like magic science done right. Otherwise it will be too boring for you.
Second one especially focuses on building stuff since MC has no OP powers and can only build things.
>>140929742
I have entire threads to refute that.
>>140929892
I've dropped everything that guy's ever translated, I don't think I'd like his writing.
>>140929984
What is this Fantasia you talk about? Never heard of it.
>>140929797
http://pastebin.com/YjDLr6jn
How do you guys even read this shit? Do you even have standards? I imagine the Brazilian or Chinese teenager who translates these things doesn't do a very good job of it either.
>>140930066
Shit taste is a blessing. I'm easy to please and I have a lot of free time.
>>140930066
Here's your (You)
>>140930066
I've been more-or-less de-sensitized to shit grammar.
Unfortunately, it has also effected my writing.
>>140930015It's on royalroad.
There is no salvation for us
there will never be a thing that can satisfy our greed
>>140930055
thx anon, also beautiful dubs
>>140930122
>effected
Too obvious
>>140930122
*affect you fucking pleb
>>140929965
To see the next month, anon.
>>140929993
It's not written by krytyk, just hosted on his site.
>>140930205
>>140930211
I blame my recent habit of reading shitty translations of shitty web novels.
>>140930245
That's why you take a break and read well-written stuff.
I just want a real good novel to get translated now.
Been reading Katahane no Riku.
It's pretty fucking edgy. One woman who was dying of her injuries already anyways gets tortured just for the fun of it, then thrown down a flight of stairs.
Another character gets two limbs hacked off, then has the other two ripped off by bulls running in opposite directions.
A third character allahu ackbars.
>>140930491
Oh yeah, the little bitch got quartered, heh.
>>140930263
How do you know what's well written?
>>140930491
You forgot another dies by burning to death because the harem protag touched him during accelerated time, funniest death in the whole novel.
>>140930491
It's not good at all but I'm still reading it. I think the last chapter is foreshadowing Asty's death.
No editorial process. Writers are storytellers, it's the editors who turn the story into a readable novel.
>>140930551
Easy, you read stuff from Nanasawa>>140930474. Pic I have is the sequel to Yuusha Aruiwa Bakemono to Yobareta Shoujo
>>140930572
I feel sorry for asty, she's one of rook's harem members and most likely his MC charms will work on her. Much more easily than the original timeline at that
>>140930578
Tell that to Konjiki. Editors are still a piece of shit. Even the protagonist with his bitch-ass attitude towards others with little to the worst improvement as a character towards the end.
>>140930564
Yeah, physics doesn't work like that.
I laughed but it also irritated me.
>>140930572
Probably, which will anger her grandfather and cause further conflict.
The author's really writing himself into a corner, there's no way this series ends with Riku alive.
Who got their shieldbro vol 4 copy? i heard that some got theirs shipped ahead of time.
I wish i had mine shipped ahead of time.
>>140930628
>My little death God can't be this cute
Do you know when or where Flame Ring takes place? I'm pretty sure it's the same world.
Why nips get so addicted creating edgy & gory Visual Novel nowadays? because they think it was cool and give a serious atmosphere?
The reverse it's the western, who takes gory and edgy stuff as a hilarity, like most of B-rated horror movie for example.
Death march is the shittiest webnovel I have ever read.
And I have read many, many, many webnovels.
Why do people read it? Just why.
>>140930772
I heard the drama cd will be released in summer.
>>140930564
>>140930745
How accelerated we talking about and what was the touch like?
I'm guessing he should have exploded into giblets because of relativistic speeds?
>>140927801
>just because they're trending with idiotic otaku who eat this garbage up
Don't ask if you already know the answer.
>>140930789
She ain't cute in-story though.
>>140930789
Don't they all take place in the same universe?
>>140930806
DRAMA CD???????????????
TELL ME MORE ABOUT THIS DRAMA CD NOW.
>>140930789
Yeah pretty sure they all are in the same world/universe
>>140930789
I think it in a different continent or something. Doesn't make much a difference in the story I guess.
>>140930819
Sure she is. She's absolutely adorable muching on beans and fruit pies or planting potatoes.
>>140930807
Accelerated enough that Rook had a fucking 10 minute conversation with the shinigami without anyone else having moved a fraction of a millimeter, and the touch was basically a poke.
>>140930714
Has there even been a translation of Konjiki's LN?
The current translation, as far as I know, is of the WN, which has no editing, right?
>>140930824
Yuusha takes place 10 years before Death God I believe. I think they're all in the same universe but not sure about Flame Ring.
>>140930806
>drama cd
What? Never heard about it. Does it vome out together with next ln vol?
>>140930858
Or apples.
>>140930858
Demeanor/behavior? yes, Appearance not.
as long as we agree on that.
>>140930898
The hero one is about DAEMONS right? Supposed to be a prequel to death god.
>>140930914
I think it actually does. 14 or 15 in summer.
>>140927801
>Why is trash for the masses trash?
Yes, that is you.
>>140930856
Definitely has no real impact. I guess I just like when an author's stories are set in the same world.
>>140930802
No, overlord is even worse.
>>140930888
If the force is being carried over 1:1, then the poke should have also blown off their finger, and any stepping on dirt should have exploded the ground.
>>140930953
Looked it up, supposed to be a drama CD between the events of Vol 14 and 15
>>140930995
Explanation: A Death god did it.
>>140931003
Or rather, supposed to be released in between vol 14 and 15. So it might be a story separate from the current vols.
>>140930952
Yup. Supposed to be like polar opposites when it comes to the novels.
>>140930952
Yeah the Yuusha kills demons. The death god translator translated a side story of Yuusha. She meets a young Schera and teachers her an important lesson.
>>140930802
because its comfy
>>140931173
If you want real comfy and somewhat better writing, then read USAGI DROP THE LN!
>>140931102
The lesson being don't eat people.
>>140931215
Latina is fucking adorable. I wish she was my daughteru.
>>140931242
Well, yes.
>>140931215
All I'm getting from google images is Monster no Goshujin-Sama and I'm pretty sure that's not it.
Because there's demand for it.
Webnovels get published because otaku need more things to consume, and everyone started writing stuff that's very similar to popular works in order to get published. And the industry doesn't care as long as it can churn out books. They're basically published fanfiction, yeah.
you have to understand that otaku are constantly in demand for new shit and there's a limit to how much quality a single country can squeeze from a medium.
>>140931283
Uchi no musume
>>140929529
Could you tell me some good xianxia and xuanhuan novels?
I could barely read ISSTH pass book 3, skim through TMW chapters and lose interest in Ze Tian Ji.
>>140927928
I can't really cook for crap, but I can tell the difference between medium rare beef cooked by a master chef and Well Done shit cooked by amateurs.
This kind of argument is so stupid and childlish that anyone who dares say this should be executed by decapitation for its stupidity, your excuse only holds water when you have never complained about anything in life.
>>140931284
CONSUME
>>140931283
Uchimusume.
Guy finds a demon girl in the forest and adopts her.
>>140931348
>>140931400
cheers m8s. sounds comfy as fuck
>>140929892
Wow, this is just fucking terrible. Why did you even link this shit?
>>140931456
Actually has a better story than Death March, hahaha.
>>140928176
Nah, it's especially bad in Slime Tensei.
>>140931456
It is, the story has her actually growing up, and she's really mature for her age and just wants to be useful to the guy who adopted her.
There's some drama, and it's pretty serious, but it gets sorted out really quick.
>>140931502
hahaha
Why is everything listed so bad compared to Nanasawa's works? Even Oregairu pales in comparison to Shinigami wo Tabeta Shoujo.
![Konosuba-1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/q85Hb3z.jpg "Konosuba-1[1].jpg")
>>140928626
>>140928801
>>140928864
>>140929021
What's the Konosuba of western YA literature?
Why can't we get a Hollywood movie taking a shit on all the dystopian YA books coming out by the truckload?
>>140929797
Taint and Void Domain are pretty good.
>>140931698
>Even Oregairu
You say this as if that is somehow any good.
>>140931698
>oregairu
>not being the worst shit ever after SAO and LH
>>140931682
Seriously, but as this anon said>>140931620, it still holds long-term relationship and story much further. The drama so far carries to a long term as a good reminder of being a demon.
>>140930066
Got burned out on western "classics" a while ago. LNs and WNs are generally pretty easy to read, don't require much investment and can be juggled with other stuff without issue. It's like fast food.
>>140931733
>>140931767
The OP said it was somewhat good, only dialogue and monologue mostly.
>>140931826
Nah. It's teen trash only remotely worth following because of the waifu wars here in /a/.
>>140931903
Yeah, I wonder how /a/ would be if this got a adaptation anyways. This would be the best LN anime that people would praise.
>>140931798
Read it up to the start of Journey to MC's hometown. There's literally no story aside from Latina being cute and fluffy.
