So, to recap...
Enuma Elish destroys worlds
Excalibur is equal to Enuma Elish
Solomon's Ars Almadel Salomonis is billions of times more powerful than Excalibur and Solomon himself transcends spacetime and has the power to destroy history itself
Solomon is one of seven grand servants, and being the grand caster is probably the weakest or second weakest
Together, the seven grand servants are strong enough to stand up to... Arcueid's sister's pet dog
Wait what?
>>140831345
say it with me
>rock
>paper
>scissor
>>140831345
So who is the Saber of the seven grand servants?
it's funny because nasu and friends just pull this shit out of their ass and autistic morons like you try to make sense of it all
>>140831403
Arturia
>>140831345
Gil could kill Archetype Earth Arc with Enuma Elish though.
>>140831345
This is entirely fucking wrong faggot
Enuma Elish doesn't destroy worlds, it destroys reality marbles. It can potentially destroy Gaia's "reality marble" which you call the world.
Excalibur is NOT equal to fucking EA, get your dick out of your ear
Solomon being billions of times stronger is true
He isn't necessarily the weakest of the 7
It was said that it would take 7 COUNTER GUARDIANS to restrain the White Beast. Not Grand Servants. Counter Guardians are fucking fodder to Solomon.
Also, the White Beast is stronger then the White Princess.
So Solomon is stronger that Arcueid?
>>140831450
Maybe in his true form he could but in his shown servants forms he would get fucked
>>140831521
Maybe. The only interviews about her relative strength that we have were before Solomon was introduced and even before F:GO was conceived.
Reminder that Kerry can just Chronos Rose and kill them both.
>>140831345
>Enuma Elish destroys worlds
This is false. It's labeled Anti-World NP because it "reveals the truth of the world", in other words, it can punch a hole through the World's Reality Marble, not blow up the whole planet like some people seem to think.
Remember:
>Range: 1-99
>Maximum number of targets: 1000 people
>>140831610
So, Assassin EMIYA is better than Archer EMIYA?
Wasn't Archer the best class for EMIYA?
>>140831761
Archer is Shirou
Assassin is Kiritsugu
You're a retard
>>140831800
Isn't EMIYA just an avatar of all the unnamed wannabe heroes and their collective will to protect the World?
Maybe as an Archer the World gives him Shirou's skillset but as Assassin he gets Kerry's since it's a better fit.
>>140831879
Nah. Assassin Kerry is a weird thing that exists solely because of the time fuckery that's GO's plot.
He isn't a proper heroic spirit on the throne, and will cease to exist once all the time fuckery of GO is done and fixed
At least, that's what I understand
>>140831879
Unnamed (Extra) is not Emiya
>>140832013
He is not the same incarnation as Archer, but he is still based on Emiya Shirou. Did you even play the game? he has his memories from the past and everything.
>>140832007
Wrong. He was summoned by the planet itself by the deterring force. He's not just a proper hero but hand-picked by Earth as its greatest killer.
>>140832069
Are you retarded?
Unnamed includes Emiya as one of the unnamed heroes he's a combination of.
Archer Emiya is just Shirou and not the same thing dumbass.
Fuck, Grand Order is cancer that should have never existed.
>>140831667
What exactly does damaging the world's reality marble do, anyway?
>>140832105
>Kerry
>greatest killer
The wank is too strong.
>>140832169
It destroys the world existentially.
>>140832161
I don't mind that it exists more than the fact that it's not /a/ material. the shitters who bring it up should be shot.
>>140832186
So it basically just obliterates things?
>>140832183
According to the deterring force that summoned him for the job, at least.
>>140832226
Primate Murder just got a powerlevel retcon, deal with it.
>>140832226
>primate murder meme
Nasu stated seven counter guardians are the ones who watch that dog. CG are confirmed the shittiest Servants (EMIYA and Kerry are examples), not Grand Servants. Stop trying to overlap them when Nasu retconned shit already and made FGO setting based on FP.
>>140832226
Zelretch vs. Crimson Moon was literally Shirou vs. Gilgamesh, CM got fucked because he didn't take Zelretch seriously until it was too late.
>>140832226
Counter Guardian =! Grand Servants.
CG are even called fake Heroic Spirits in FGO who are vastly weaker under normal circumstances.
>>140831345
Solomon needs to set up an extremely convoluted magical plot with 72 demons across all history to Ars Almadel Solomonis to be that strong in the first place.
So it's the thing with mages, give them prep time and they fuck everything.
>>140832213
Yes.
Toyosatomimi no Miko servant when?
>>140832327
Nowhere is said Grand Servants even give a shit about Altrouge's pet. Nasu said 7 of the shittiest level of Heroic Spirits deal with it.
Fuck Solomon what's this about Kiritsugu being a servant?
>>140832302
Counter Guardians are superior to normal servants, are you retarded?
>>140832356
He is not even recorded in the throne, he is a what if CG that only exist within the context of the Grand Orders.
>>140832169
>>140832186
Apparently it also allows people to tear open portals to parallel worlds, as shown in Prisma.
>>140832356
It's pandering, shitty pandering.
>>140832327
You're overlapping Grand Servants, who are pure Heroic Spirits, with Counter Guardians which Nasu had stated that are the opposite in essence. Not just in FGO but in CM III.
Seven Counter Guardians keep Primate Murder on check. Counter Guardian is EMIYA, not Solomon. Solomon looks down to any hero who needs an Alaya buff.
Grand Servants are guardians of humanity in general, but they don't need to team up vs enemies or anything like that. They are the last line of defense and are independent forces. Solomon summons and self-resurrect himself.
>>140832276
>>140832264
What's even the point of this shit? Does he ever plan to write a game or novel with the other Apostles in it?
>>140832359
Oh god, you're fucking stupid to believe they are superior to Grand Servants. They are SHIT TIER Heroic Spirits with mana buffs. That's fucking all.
Are you saying Kerry and EMIYA re 'better' than Solomon. Are you fucking stupid?
>>140831507
>Enuma Elish doesn't destroy worlds, it destroys reality marbles.
That's a theory and was never confirmed in any way. We never got a direct quote that says that Ea destroys RMs, only that is supposed to be far weaker now that what it was originally according to Enkidu, something that has to do with how the shitty Servant containers can't properly show the true power of some Heroic Spirits most of the time.
>>140832359
I don't know about GO, but all Servants in the Grail war are weaker copy from the Throne, regardless they are Heroic Spirit or Counter Guardian.
>>140832411
No, but he might include them as throw away bosses for Grand Order when he needs it. In fact, the Apostles have appeared more in Fate titles than in Tsukihime ones: Strange Fake, Labyrinth, Extra/CCC (backstory).
>>140832444
Learn how to read, fucking retard.
>>140832468
>If not for hurr Avalon Saber would have become a Counter Guardian after she died.
She wouldn't have retard. Because her fame would keep her from getting in the Throne. It would only be possible if she completely erased the legend of King Arthur.
Go and read Kerry's profile, CG are confirmed SHIT.
>>140832474
>No
Is that confirmed or just a guess? It's so much wasted potential man. GO was a mistake.
>>140832489
>*in the Counter Force
Shit sorry.
>>140832494
He stated in an interview that all the DAAs, including PM, could make an appearance. FGO is his biggest work and his baby. It encompasses all the TM universe considering Solomon destroyed everyone except MC and Chaldea (and Merlin who might be trapped but in Chaldea) in his edgy phase.
How the fuck is Arturia going to be buffed to Solomon levels anyways.
Because we all know who Grand Saber is.
Nigga literally solo'd the entire living TM cast on his own.
>>140832527
She will be given magic rings
>>140832527
You will have the ability to upgrade your Servants to Grand containers and call it a day.
>>140832512
>"modern humanity sucks, I'm going to cull the weak by flooding the world with Grail cancer and then rule over the survivors"
>chaotic good
>"modern humanity REALLY sucks, I'm going to glass the world from orbit with no survivors"
>lawful good
Oh Nasu, you and your silly alignments.
>>140832468
You don't understand what Counter Guardians are, I think. They are empowered semi-normalfags who sold their souls and never got fame or recognition to be heroic spirits, so they entered in Alaya's service after death.
They are the lowest of lowest among Heroic Spirits, because they don't qualify as 'true' Heroic Spirit (both EMIYA and Kerrytugu are classified as false Heroic Spirits). CG are only 'strong' because they have prana reserves from Alaya. It's the Saber Alter deal (who is weaker than regular Saber but has unlimited prana-boost). However that shit is completely useless against Grand Servants like Solomon who can, with a snap of his fingers, sucked out all the prana of the world (yes, that's one of his abilities) or kill them with staring in their direction.
Grand Servants are the highest peak of humans who got there by their own merit (something Solomon is proud of as he looks down to anyone who received external buffs). CG are relatively normal people who tried to serve the collective will of humanity and got to ride on it.
>>140832574
Solomon is probably Lawful Good under normal circumstances and not his edgy phase.
>>140831507
>Excalibur is NOT equal to fucking EA
Seiba parried Enuma Elish with Excalibur at the end of Fate.
>>140832527
Ron at full power would be bullshit, as would be Avalon+with full world threat ending Excalibur.
>>140832614
>who is weaker than regular Saber but has unlimited prana-boost
Saber Alter is min-maxed Saber, she isn't really weaker than normal Saber. Actually is pretty much said she is the strongest Servant in that state and probably even stronger than when she was alive in her status page.
>>140832574
In the Nasuverse good means idealistic, we've been over this.
>>140832574
Solomon thinks all humanity sucks, not just modern, though. He got impatient because nobody got on his level or something.
>>140832527
Probably some hyperunblockable "warrior for peace" chivalric instawin move. There isn't much envelope left to escalate.
>>140832651
Not really, CG Kerry is Chaotic Evil and in Zero and HF he is compared to Anti-heroes all the fucking time.
>>140832650
Saber Alter has shittier stats. She only can use Excaliblast more.
>>140832617
Not full power Ea, and Saber always got damaged whenever she used Excalibur against Ea.
>>140832686
He is evil because he lost his ideal in F/Z after learning the truth about the Grail.
>>140832690
Only AGI, something that she doesn't even need because she has Prana Burst active all the fucking time. I can give you the LCK though, but given how strong she is and her super regeneration it's not that bad.
Still, it's directly said she is the strongest version of Saber so discussion is moot here. She is min-maxed Saber as I said.
>>140832696
He did use his full power when she blocked him with Avalon, anon.
Nasu already said that Gil wouldn't win vs Saber, even if he's serious (he wouldn't lose but he wouldn't win). And Saber is always massively nerfed by her class while Gil isn't. She's missing most of her noble phantasms. Ron itself would fuck Gil up, considering it has advantage against anything that is mystery.
>>140832714
He is compared to All the Evil of This World in Zero a lot, even while he is doing the whole killing few to save many bussiness.
The whole point of Kiritsugu is that he does evil actions for the greater good, something that puts him into the evil "anti-hero" position as far Fate standards go.
And no, the Kerry CG in GO is full Protector of Justice mode.
We know next to nothing about the exact purpose of Grand Servants. They might or might not be a reworking of the seven Counter Guardians that Nasu said were needed to contain Primate Murder. We learned literally nothing about Grand Servants in the latest chapter of Grand Order. Please refrain from speaking about them with any sort of perceived authority until we actually know anything about them.
>>140832634
Ron is completely superfluous as long as she has Excalibur, they do the exact same damn thing, shoot giant beams of destruction.
So how do I learn about GO lore without playing the mobage?
Do they plan releasing a LN or some shit on it?
>>140832735
Rin Saber is way better than Alter. Alter has her instincts dulled and shit-tier luck.
Rin Saber would wreck her with pure hax and better sword skills alone.
>>140832798
Read summaries, I guess.
>>140832634
Using at full power Ron would mean the end of humanity's control of the world, so it's a non-factor anyway.
>>140832746
>with Avalon
Not Excalibur. We're talking Excalibur being equal to Ea, remember?
>>140832790
You don't understand why Ea beat Excalibur, right? It's not about the damage of beam (nevermind Ron is EX), it's about the concept. Ron concept would fuck Gil up, Ea or not Ea, it's designed to shit on the age of gods bullshit. Vortigern could deal with Excalibur but was one shot by Ron.
>>140832746
>And Saber is always massively nerfed by her class while Gil isn't. She's missing most of her noble phantasms.
wait, what?
>>140832878
Avalon is part of Excalibur, the sword and sheath are two sets, dumbass. The only way Gilgamesh can beat Saber is when she only has one Noble Phantasm of her many. Isn't that fucking sad?
>>140832891
Arturia had a lot of magical weapons. Do you not know she has the spear of fate that keeps the balance of the world? She also has two magical horses, a magical ship, a magical dagger, and a lot more of bullshit.
The castle of Camelot I suppose counts.
>>140832746
>Saber is always massively nerfed by her class
Saber is literally the best class she could be put in.
Are you bringing non-servant Saber to a fight with servant Gil? what the fuck is this?
>>140832916
Some ginger fuckwit, I dunno.
>>140832923
Not to mention the dozens of Excalibur knockoffs she handed out to her knights like candy from her treasury.
>>140831521
No, heroic spirits are not even close to Arcueid.
>>140832904
Servant Saber comes without Avalon, deal with it.
And Avalon is a different Noble Phantasm altogether, read the character sheet.
Servant Gil is also severely nerfed when he is summoned as a servant, the conditions for both of them are equal.
>>140831345
HAHAHA pretty cool thread op!
>>140832934
Saber in the Lancer class gets a horse and tits.
Clearly superior.
>>140832962
You mean to Archetype Earth, right?
Because a few heroic spirits could kill Arc just fine.
>>140832916
Rhongomyniad (Spear that Shines to the Farthest End) aka Ron.
>>140832962
So why didn't she stop him from killing everyone and everything then?
>>140832989
She also gets a dicking from said horse on a regular basis.
No thanks, I'll stick with pure Saber.
>>140832934
Anon, you don't seem to understand. Gil gets ALL his weapons as Archer. Saber only has fucking Excalibur as Saber when Arturia also had multiple NPs.
If she had her multiple NP, she would kick his ass. Ron is a direct counter to anything he can pull.
>people arguing that Nasu meant Avalon as well when he said Solomon's NP was billion x Excalibur
Are you really this fucking retarded? Really?
>>140833036
>Ron is a direct counter to anything he can pull.
There is guaranteed to be an anti-Ron measure in his GoB.
>>140832973
>Servant Gil is also severely nerfed when he is summoned as a servant
Such as? Go on, tell me how he's 'nerfed'. Saber only has one NP, her dragon core is dormant, she cannot even dematerialize (in FSN) which leads her to more headaches. How is poor Gil 'nerfed' comparably?
>>140833060
Read CCC
>>140832980
During London, he killed three tailed Tamamo by staring in her direction. It was pretty hilarious.
>>140833018
>pure Saber
>canonically raped by her sister
>pure
>>140833075
I have. He doesn't pull anything new outside of the buffs the game gave him with Zero model.
>>140833060
He has to rely on orphan batteries for mana, for starters.
>>140833097
>>140833060
Servants are not Heroic Spirits. They are fragments of Heroic Spirits.
Saber is barely a servant, more of a Counter Guardian preserved by Avalon.
Hence, Gil is a mere fragment whereas she is the real thing. She NEEDED the nerf to be fair.
>>140833099
And? That's just to get firepower for Gate of Babylon, but he never gets nerfed or locked out one of his NPs like Saber does. How the fuck do you think is comparable? Saber is massively crippled in general.
>>140832302
>>140832276
>>140832349
>>140832409
Wrong.
7 Counter Guardians are needed to stop PM, those 7 are the ones the servants in the grail war are based on.
7 were once summoned by the counter force in order to stop an enemy of civilization born from civilization, something that threatens the world(humanity's world), something that humans brought upon themselves. The servants in the grail war are based on those 7.
You need to learn how to read dialogues. It's made very clear those counter guardians were the now called "Grand Servants", because servants originated from those and they fought an enemy of humanity that was born from humanity's own wrongdoing. A repeating theme in Nasuverse is that humans are killing Gaia so Gaia punishes them, a repeating theme in nasuverse is that humanity brings damage to themselves.
>>140832804
>>140832806
Rin Saber is said to Saber as strong as she was alive. Saber Alter in the other hand is said to have lost all her limitations and now she is stronger than she was when alive. So the game and the materials make pretty obvious that Alter is the strongest of the two.
This is from the Complete Material.
>Losing her limitations and gaining in one way more power than she had when she was alive, she is probably, without dispute, the strongest Servant.
>>140833036
>If she had her multiple NP
Then she wouldn't be a servant, and we wouldn't have any parameters to compare her to non-servant Gil.
Stick to the canon, and stop forcing this discussion into fanfiction territory.
>>140833008
Lancer Saber is weak shit anon
>>140833121
>more of a Counter Guardian preserved by Avalon.
She's not a counter guardian you retard. She could never BE one unless humanity forgot King Arthur legend and she broke her deal with Alaya.
She was NEVER powered up by Alaya. She's more close to Gaia. That's why she's hanging out in her resort and she's given a sword to protect the PLANET not humanity. She happened to be a bleeding heart and gave a fuck about humans when her nature was anathema with humanity and Vortigern stated so. That's why they turned against her.
>>140832887
Ea actually represents a concept from before the Age of Gods and even from before planet Earth was a living thing, so the whole Ron stipulation is kind of useless there. They already explained that Ea's power and concept is engraved in the DNA of all living things and all of that.
>>140833129
Counter Guardians aren't Heroic Spirits. It's in CM III and again repeated in Kerry's profile. Stop trying to overlap them. Solomon never once mentions that shitty dog.
Secondly, Nasu already stated that FGO follows FATE PROTOTYPE system scenario. All you describe fits in FSN which he discarded.
>>140833169
Why did Gaia even bother with Arcueid instead of reviving Saber and turning her into Type-Earth?
It seemed really eager to more or less do that when she was alive, handing her all those Last Phantasm toys.
>>140833129
>muh thematic headcanon
Fuck off. He said counter guardians. The grail war has nothing to do with them structurally, outside of when they manage to insert themselves it in through lucky coincidence.
>>140832996
Not even origin boosted Gilgamesh can beat Amaterasu, Arcueid can. And that's extra Arcueid.
We already know that the one that Gilgamesh can beat is 30% Arcueid, not 100% Arcueid.
>>140833015
>So why didn't she stop him from killing everyone and everything then?
Why the fuck would AE prevent the death of humans? She was about to blow the planet in MB.
>>140831345
If the 3 families never conceived of the concept of the holy grail then does that mean servants would not exist or would be nothing more than files in a magical database?
>>140833200
>All you describe fits in FSN which he discarded.
He never explained what was the real deal with Heroic Spirits so it's not really that he discarded anything, more than they worked on the idea of what a Heroic Spirit really is all these years and Sakurai was the first who put the clues to it in Fragments, as Nasu pretty much gives all the authors under him lore bits and makes sure the background points stays the same for all of them.
>>140833206
>Why did Gaia even bother with Arcueid instead of reviving Saber and turning her into Type-Earth?
Because Saber will be retconned as Type Universe, silly anon. We have to go higher than Saber Galactica.
Anyway, remember Tsukihime old canon might be retconned in the remake because Nasu stated that Excalibur is the greatest weapon Gaia ever made in GoA. Sorry Arc got the boot.
>>140833133
>>she is probably, without dispute, the strongest Servant.
Hyperbole. Nasu does that all the time.
Solomon is a canonically stronger servant, that alone invalidates this line.
A+ luck and A Instinct make Rin Saber a walking fate twisting machine, plus, she is way smarter and a better swordswoman.
Saber Alter can't power her way through victory against Rin Saber, she has all the plot hax on her side.
If she created a lucky opening in Assassin's unavoidable technique (a way better swordsman than Alter, btw), she will undoubtedly find countless openings in Alter's swordplay and wreck her ass.
>>140833206
>implying it didn't
You think Arc's redesign is just a coincidence?
Just you wait, the remake will give her strange flashbacks to "another life" she lead and strongly imply that she is Arturia reborn into the body of a True Ancestor as Gaia's ultimate one.
>>140833261
This has to be the shittiest bait i've seen in a long while.
You do know Excalibur is a sword and that Arcueid is a being right? she's not a weapon you dumbfuck.
>>140833235
>Why the fuck would AE prevent the death of humans? She was about to blow the planet in MB
Because regular Arc would kind of give a shit about all that?
>>140833235
Arcueid can't beat Amaterasu, Nasu said she is the only one from CCC with a sliver of a chance
True Heroic Spirit Gil may have a chance
>>140833292
>she's not a weapon
She's a tool, not you're waifu, faggot.
>>140831345
>His goal is the eradication of Humanity, that which he calls "garbage perpetuating a foolish history, the single greatest waste of space in the universe". All other Servants are beneath him in his eyes, not able to measure up to him in terms of the rank of their classes, rather than their ranks as Heroic Spirits.
Literally me IRL, I'm just whiter
>>140833301
Type moon was always silly.
>>140833257
He explained plenty of this is CM III and all his previous scenario were all based on FSN. FGO aims for a bigger 'heroic' epic (in the real sense of the word), so it's understandable he uses FP which has a slightly different cosmology, for starters is heavily based on Christian stuff. That's why FGO mentions angels, Heaven and God which he shies away in FSN. Doesn't mean he divorces his other elements, but there IS a christfag feel in this because the system in FP (both Master and Servant one) was Christian.
>>140833311
Why would she? Arcueid gives 0 flying fucks about any human that's not Shiki.
And we FGO doesn't happen in the same universe Tsukihime does.
>>140833301
True this. Its so silly to discuss power level in nasu universe, nigga forgot things as much as toriyama did.
>>140833292
Arc was created to be Gaia's weapon, anon, as the Ultimate One.
>>140833287
Read >>140833359
We might get to see angels at some point. Real ones, not the ones from Notes.
>>140833271
>Solomon is a canonically stronger servant, that alone invalidates this line.
Solomon is a Grand Servant. And he is obviously talking about the Servants of the Fifth War (so Gilgamesh is out too). And the important line is the one about she being stronger than when she was alive (that equals Rin's Saber as said in UBW).
>A+ luck and A Instinct make Rin Saber a walking fate twisting machine, plus, she is way smarter and a better swordswoman.
Never amounts to anything relevant in the story.
>Saber Alter can't power her way through victory against Rin Saber, she has all the plot hax on her side.
She was able to do that against Herc just fine. And he has super buffed stats too and Eye of the Mind (False).
>If she created a lucky opening in Assassin's unavoidable technique (a way better swordsman than Alter, btw), she will undoubtedly find countless openings in Alter's swordplay and wreck her ass.
Alter would just use Prana Burst to give herself super armor like she does all the time and make all of that irrelevant. And she regenerates super fast and can spam Excaliblast so Rin's Saber would be overpowered soon enough. Also Alter powerlevel is in a whole different level that Kojiro, the only thing that Kojiro had was his superb sword technique.
They make pretty clear pretty she stronger than when she was alive, so it's absurd to even discuss it.
>>140833261
>higher than Saber Galactica
M-MASAKA!
>>140833379
Ultimate Ones are not weapons, they are the will of the planet embodied.
>>140833282
True end would be returning back to her beloved Merlin.
I like it.
>>140833075
Didn't Gil mention that he lost like 80% of his treasury to come help in CCC?
>>140833428
>Never amounts to anything relevant in the story.
Stopped reading there.
READ THE FUCKING VN
>>140833316
>Arcueid can't beat Amaterasu, Nasu said she is the only one from CCC with a sliver of a chance
>As far as EXTRA and CCC go, we needed to make her be at a level that, “No matter how slim the possibility, still possible for Konjiki Hakumen (Golden White Face) to defeat.”
That's what Nasu said. And that's a nerfed 30% Arcueid(literally said like 3 times that her master nerfed her from planet to god and she can't even access Ultimate One properly)
>True Heroic Spirit Gil may have a chance
Origin boosted servants are stronger than their heroic spirit forms anon, they literally access all their power and then get boosted by the root. That's the whole point.
>>140833359
They never went full detail on it. And FP wasn't even detailed until they resurrected it anyway, and now they basically merged all of it into one with GO and the rest of the spin-offs.
>>140833282
I will never understand why that line of shitposting always comes up.
>>140833379
Ultimate Ones are not weapons, they are exactly what says here >>140833292
A weapon is a sword, or a spear. Stop being stupid.
>>140833287
I should clarify again, if you're not familiar with FP. The system that Nasu is using in FGO with the 'one humans copied' in general of the real deal isn't like in FSN which is simply random classes thrown together, but FP one in essence which has a classification of Servants/Heroic Spirits and Masters equivalent of angel choirs, in other words, they are like surrogate guardian angels. It's a lot more religious and symbolic which fits to the role of Grand Servants.
>>140833484
See, sorry >>140833516
That's why trying to overlap the system is dumb. Grand Servant system is based on the FP one, which makes Servants as pseudo angels.
>>140833466
With Rin as a Master? Just avoiding Tsubame Gaeshi, something irrelevant because Alter would just vaporize Kojiro with one of her unlimted blasts. Or even better she would use her unlimited magical energy to create that super armor mist and Kojiro's shitty sword would be irrelevant.
The only reason why Kojiro was a threat to Saber in the first place was because she decided to play fair with him and fight a sword duel.
And you stopped reading because you don't have way to retort everything else though, nice escape there.
>>140833460
No, he lost 80% of his treasury to try to reach the Near Side from the Far side on his ending. He had it in most of it.
>>140833292
HOW DOES SHIKI DOES IT
O
W
>>140833466
Her Luck? Avoiding Gae Bolg and that was with Shirou not with Rin. Instinct is fine but is also rendered useless many times in the VN, so it's not a fate twisting machine as you said at all.
>>140832746
Who the hell is Ron?
>>140833573
Her spear
>>140833573
Ron is her EX spear that can undo the whole world.
>>140833573
A spear that makes her grow tiddies
The NP seal of Ozymandias' temple is described as a curse of divine origins. Basically it's the power of the Egyptian gods working to seal NPs within the temple. This works even against Excalibur, the greatest weapon created by Gaia itself. So therefore we can conclude that Egyptian gods > Gaia.
But the NP seal is negated thanks to the alchemy of Paracelsus, a baseline human magus born in the modern era. Therefore we can conclude that Paracelsus' modern alchemy > Egyptian gods > Gaia.
>>140833602
>>140833573
Technically, it's the spear she used to finally end the last bits and pieces of the Age of Gods, which is part of why humanity is so far in the shitter right now.
>>140833573
Rhongomyniad. Arturia's spear which is broken as fuck.
>>140833534
In a symbolic way Servants are the elementals of humanity, so it's a way to see it. Still GO kinda glosses over God and Apocrypha pretty much implies that God is just a Divine Spirit based on the idea of perfection, and that was after the change was made.
I haven't read FP but there's nothing in FGO that's been confusing to me. The worlds aren't all that different if anything. They talk about the throne of heroes and counterforces.
>>140833625
>Gods > Planet
You might be retarded.
Are there any 20th or 21st century real life figures used as heroes?
>>140833665
They're not different worlds with different terminologies. It's just one fucking autist mad that his "Grand Servants" are shitters that can't beat Primate Murder.
People call him Jetfag in /fgog/ or melvin.
>>140833680
I think one or two managed to sneak their way in. Edison, Tesla.
>>140833625
HUMANITY FUCK YEAH!
Anyway, Ozzy was ridiculous. He had to be dogpiled to be taken down.
>>140833643
>Originally, this holy spear is the ｢pillar of light｣ that sews together the two sides of the world, and it has been said that - in the unlikely event that this is undone - the current world that has been composed by the laws of physics will be torn off, and the many laws of illusion that became things of the past will appear. Due being the ｢king｣ that stood at the final moments of illusion and the Age of Gods, she possesses this holy spear that conceals such tremendous power.
>>140833235
MB AE was a wackjob, you have to remember her usual job is still defending the planet.
And Solomon didn't exactly launch a surgical strike on humanity, he just razed EVERYTHING.
>>140833643
>which is part of why humanity is so far in the shitter right now.
The whole point of GO and GoA is that humanity isn't really in the shitter. They just took the world and killed mystery by replicating it with their own abilities (science), so it's basically humanity fuck yeah we don't need the old stuff.
Apocrypha says that humanity will probably reach a third magic kind of state in the distant future by their own hands, Mahoyo implies that the Five True Magics are the goals that humanity has to reach and Merlin says directly that the next age will be the Age of Will when humanity will ascend to a new perfected state of conciousness.
Solomon is just a edgy kid who wanted all of that right now. And there are probably other real reasons behind what he is doing anyway.
>>140833652
Apocrypha doesn't imply that, it implies that Jeanne wasn't listening to God but her own conscience.
However FP has a real God, not Gaia or any of that autistic Nasuverse bullshit. So the system of Servant+Master was 100% Christianfag. There is indeed a God Creator higher than anyone in Nasuverse, we might just see him in FGO, just to introduce something bigger than Solomon and those chucklefucks he already soloed.
>>140833710
>MB AE was a wackjob, you have to remember her usual job is still defending the planet.
Except it's not her job.
She was about to destroy theearth in MB because she literally gives no shits.
>>140833735
Gilgamesh in his interlude states Solomon (not by his name) but he hates the world in a way it's not anger or something like that, because even that is productive, all he does is destroy to the ground.
>>140831345
Really? Not gonna mix it up a little at all? Even then Excalibur isn't equal to Enuma Elish.
>>140833759
MB AE had completely different goals depending on the scenario you were playing, you can't exactly cite her behavior in that as what she's usually like.
>>140833741
I'm pretty sure that Karna said that to Vlad when they were dicussing about gods while fighting. And the God creator in Nasuverse probably doesn't even have nothing to do christianity, as the reason why the Church have the whole sacrament thing isn't even related to God in any way, it's just magical foundations at work.
Mahoyo also had that line about God maybe being the first creature who reached the Root.
>>140833768
This bullshit has to end. Nasu stated it only has a slightly bigger output and are about the same in destructive power (Ea and Excalibur). The only reason why Ea could counter Excalibur was on concept.
>>140833759
>>140833370
Remember which planet Shiki lives on? Oh that's right, he lives on Earth.
You have to be deluding yourself if you think Arc would just stand by and let Solomon nuke the entirety of the planet's surface to ash. But she apparently did because lolNasu.
>>140833680
Emiya Kiritsugu.
>>140833801
Except the whole point of EA is it's concept, if you want to talk about how much it can blow up then it isn't much. A mountain, a city.
It's not really based on DC.
>>140833794
Karna isn't an authority about it. Jeanne wasn't listening to God, proof.
And none of that applies to FP setting which assumes there's an absolute being, God, and there are angels and all that Christian stuff. Nasu stated clearly FGO was based not on FSN but on it's previous setting, FP. While it still has stuff from the Nasuverse he worked with later, it's more heavily Christian.
>>140833083
But her power gets multiplied by 9 with each new tail.
I am pretty sure that she could mop the floor with him if she would be in nine tailed form.
>>140833833
That's the point. Solomon can raze the entire planet simultaneously.
>>140833821
Can't you read the shit you reply to? FGO doesn't happen in the same universe as Tsukihime, in that manga Olga Marie meets arcueid after some alternate universe travelling fuckery.
You do know there are several universes in Nasuverse right?
>>140833837
It's incredibly amusing how hard Nasu tries to avoid directly talking about God in Nasuverse even though he has plenty of devout Christians and biblical figures running around talking about everything BUT God.
>>140833848
Sure thing, kid. Your waifu got one shot, hell, Solomon didn't even have to do anything to kill her. He just looked at her.
And she, Kintoki and Shakes kicked the bucket.
>>140833862
Olga in that manga is a loli, so she might not even be the same Olga.
>>140833821
FGO like many series in the verse doesn't happen in the same universe.
Considering they bothered doing a KnK event I'll bet they'll do a Turkeyhandle one as well at some point. And Nasu will just explain it away.
>>140833877
The whole point is that FGO is it's own continuity, that's about it. No need to dwell on it
>>140833863
God gave Solomon his rings and the Ark to David (which can fuck up anything apparently) in FGO.
>>140833917
Just because the god of the bible exists doesn't mean he's the god creator.
Can't you christian fucks understand that? There are several gods.
>>140831415
This. I sincerely doubt Nasu really gives a shit at this point.
>>140833741
>>140833764
>>140833837
The whole angels thing is symbolic though, Case Files explains it.
>And none of that applies to FP setting which assumes there's an absolute being, God, and there are angels and all that Christian stuff. Nasu stated clearly FGO was based not on FSN but on it's previous setting, FP.
FP wasn't even a thing until a few years ago. Old Fate never adressed anything about christian imaginery, all of that was added later when they resurrected it with Carnival Phantasm.
And you are quite extrapolating a lot of shit here. Nowhere in Proto is confirmed there is an actual christian God going around and GO still rolls with the usual even christian figures never talk about it or what implies either.
>>140833885
>>140833862
And GO-verse is divergent enough from Tsukihime/FSN for Arcueid to not even exist? Or any other high-tier Nasuverse being for that matter? All the DAAs just sat back and let Solomon do his thing?
Because even if they don't give a shit about humanity they still live on the planet that Solomon is destroying entirely as collateral damage in his tantrum.
>>140833909
None of those events are canon with FGO main storyline, though. They seem to exist on a parallel kind of like FHA to FSN.
>>140833625
Sasuga Phil-sensei
>>140833909
If the remake releases before Grand Order dies then yeah.
>>140833837
>Karna isn't an authority about it.
No, but Vlad was so rused about it that there is probably some truth to it, at least about what God is to christians.
That line in Mahoyo implies that it will probably be touched in the future though.
>>140833937
>Old Fate never adressed anything about christian imaginery,
Which is why NASU STATED that FGO doesn't follow what he established in FSN but what was going to be the original scenario, FP. That's why FGO DOES follow Christian imaginary. Starting with Galahad, the HS who powers up Mashu, had a trip to Heaven once.
>>140833863
Speaking of Christian Servants (of which there are many), how do they NOT have a problem with being on the Throne of Heroes? It runs completely counter to what they were taught about the afterlife.
>>140833909
Events are not canon. They're something like Prisma Illya or whatever.
What people seem to forget is that FGO is a shitty mobage that needs to make money, not everything in it is canon, only what happens in the main story and shit like that.
>>140833972
None of that is relevant to FGO, though. Nasu already stated he's following FP scenario. Not Apocrypha and not Mahoyo.
>>140833993
>not everything in it is canon
Kaleidoscope, nigga.
>>140833833
>>140833850
Solomon needed to place all the demon pillars across human history to use Ars Almadel to that extent though.
And the Ea when Gilgamesh was alive was probably the real deal though. But even so Enkidu's own Enuma Elish reacted fully to it in Strange Fake, and the whole point of Enkidu's NP is that reacts strongly when the world is in danger of being destroyed as it's a manifestation of thhe counter force.
>>140831345
not this shit again. I fucking hate grand order.
>>140833982
Heaven exists. Galahad went there.
>>140834016
Those events "exist" that doesn't mean they are canon.
>>140834017
Gilgamesh will be one shot by Solomon when Babylon rolls in. You know this is true, anon.
>>140834017
Gilgamesh acknowledges Solomon is stronger than he is twice. Once as a kid, and another in his interlude.
>>140834007
Not quite, he's following the system he made up when they created FP, but that doesn't mean that there is a christian God pulling the strings as that's not even confirmed in Proto anyway.
And Proto is just a slightly alternate Nasuverse, that was confirmed already. The whole point of the new spin-offs is that Nasu wanted to create a unified setting so he is the one making sure all these works share a setting to make a bigger Nasuverse. Even Prototype. He already explained that in the TM Ace, and he reunites with Higashide, Sakurai and Narita to gave them info and make sure or that.
>>140834028
Galahad was summoned so he is in the Throne.
Amakusa is the only one who can save us from Solomon.
>>140834017
Nope, Nasu said the first anti-planet NP introduced in Fate was Kiara's NP.
Stop posting your fanfiction.
>>140831345
So we went all this long way from interesting world of Angel Notes to this shitty mess? Nasuverse was a mistake.
>>140834047
>>140834076
>>140834113
I agree that Solomon is definitely stronger than Gil at this point, even if original Ea was able to destroy the world Solomon incinerated the world across all history after all. That's absurd even to think about it.
>>140834098
>Galahad was summoned so he is in the Throne.
Uh, you know they imply they aren't summoning from the throne but from Mashu's shield and is Merlin who did this? Tesla gave it away partly.
>>140834140
>original Ea
Complete fanfiction. Original Ea and Current Ea are the same thing.
>>140834110
Grail Hunters, go forth!
>>140834179
not him but ea is a god
>>140833864
A 9 tailed Kitsune is omnipotent though, if we go by the actual myth. So I don't know who'd win, whoever's currently getting wanked I guess.
>>140833625
He's still a weak shit by Caster standards. Medea, Tamamo, Nursery Rhyme, Cu, and Semiramis are all better than him.
>>140834179
Enkidu mentions that Ea was stronger when they were alive. And Samhat said that while Gilgamesh and Enkidu fought when they were alive it was as if the world was destroyed and recreated seven times. Also Enkidu NP is pretty clear at what it does, it was stitching the world so the hole made by Ea didn't fuck everything, and it only reacts that strongly when the world is actually in serious danger.
Probably Ea can't obliterate the whole world in a single beam, but make a rapture big enough to "hell" and eveything will end being sucked into it.
>>140834240
Not even the oldest god.
Too bad no one can decipher what the fuck humans wrote on this idol 11 thousand years ago and the environment where this was discovered is awfully difficult to completely examine.
>>140834458
>it was as if the world was destroyed and recreated seven times
>It was as if
Hyperbole.
>>140834485
The effects are pretty clear nevertheless. Ea will not destroy the world in firepower but opening a genesis hole big enough would do the same trick anyway, it's just that Servant Gilgamesh can't probably get to that level.
>>140831345
>solomon design is a generic evil dark lord
>his personality have a 180 degree change
ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME NASU?.
I CAN'T TAKE THIS SHIT ANY MORE HOLY SHIT.
FUCK YOU
>>140833370
>And we FGO doesn't happen in the same universe Tsukihime does.
Solomon destroyed ALL timelines. Not just FGO. Roman mentions this shit many times. That's why in the FZ event, they can't simply sneak peek to another timely to see what happened there and must rely on Weiba.
Don't ask me how he pulled that bullshit. He's Solomon.
>>140834458
Gil couldn't even threaten the gods to bring Enkidu back to life with Ea.
Ea is not a threat at all.
>>140834434
He can kill Heracles by himself. Medea can't.
>>140834518
>but opening a genesis hole big enough would do the same trick anyway
Again, you keep posting your fanfiction.
>>140834533
Timeline /=/ Universe
F/Z event is not canon to the main story, just like other events.
>>140834539
>>140834558
Ea is directly called the strongest Noble Phantasm even in GO though.
And Gil accepted Enkidu death when it happened.
>>140834699
The context timeline is used means universe. Waver comes from a dimension that Chaldea doesn't exist and the only Holy Grail War is the one in Fuyuki (FZ and FSN). Roman stated that they couldn't investigate to what happened in that timeline (Waver's) because it got btfo by Solomon. It got burned to ashes too. KnK event had Shiki also from other dimension/universe which got btfo by Solomon.
Gilgamesh more or less confirmed Solomon's bitchfit destroyed everything and left nothing behind.
>>140834699
>F/Z event is not canon to the main story, just like other events.
But Roman mentions this too within the story?
>>140831345
>I posted it again!
>>140833235
For the same reason she got mad at Dust for killing all humans in Melty. Humans are still the children of Gaia.
I don't bother searching through all this mess of discussion so I'm going to ask even if it has been asked before.
Is F/GO or at least all the lore behind these fanfic Servants are canon to Nasuverse or made by Nasu himself?
If not, I don't care about how OP this Solomon dude or whatever that came out from that mess even if it's about canon characters.
I can no longer express my disgust at current Fateverse.
![[HorribleSubs] Seraph of the End S2 - 12 [720p].mkv_snapshot_12.43_[2015.12.26_17.58.33].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/aiCmAUf.jpg "[HorribleSubs] Seraph of the End S2 - 12 [720p].mkv_snapshot_12.43_[2015.12.26_17.58.33].jpg")
>>140835054
It has Nasu's approval and is made by Nasu himself.
It's canon.
Now you can be as salty as pic related
>>140831345
>Together, the seven grand servants are strong enough to stand up to... Arcueid's sister's pet dog
This is Wrong, because Grand Rider is Hongo Takeshi, the strongest Rider.
>>140831403
Not revealed yet.
>>140835054
>Nasu: From the start of the planning phase, I thought, “FGO has to be this grand story where every single character from all the Fate/ series until now would show up, or else it would be pointless.” To put it extremely, “even if I die, I have to pass this on to the next person… Actually, I should just pour all of my wealth and assets into this” – that was how I felt, so I had to put in everything up until the core setting of the Fate/ universe.
>>140835220
Honestly FGO is bad, I play it and I know it's canon but that doesn't change the fact that it's bad. The story is a convoluted mess and the game itself is bad and boring.
I'm not salty like that anon though, I just ignore it since it's just a game.
>>140835220
Yes, you bet I'm salty as fuck.
Fate should have ended with Fate/Zero but I guess broken and convoluted fantasy is his fetish and it's clearly reaching its peak compared 10 years ago.
This >>140835347 just confirms it. That absolute madman.
>>140835299
>Hongo
>Not Godai Yusuke.
Do you even the Strongest Rider?
>>140835402
I play Fate/Go because I'm sure this will happen in the future. It's a shit game, but I think it's something of a playground for Nasu and friends, where they can write all the alternate scenarios they like and just have fun.
>>140835347
He's funded by Sony though and FGO prints money for the both of them
>>140833862
Solomon explicitly didn't destroy everything. The other side of the planet where Archetype Earth lives is fine as per Merlin. It was also stated that magical beasts still exist in places where humans can't reach.
>>140836096
>The other side of the planet where Archetype Earth lives is fine as per Merlin.
Not him but could you tell me where he says this. I'd like to look it up myself.
>>140832986
What is this? A Madara for ants?
>>140833945
Arc is sleeping in every universe save for her good end. The chances of her being sleeping and active in the GO timeline are slim at none.
>>140836139
Not him but Merlin is fine and dandy.
>>140836179
She's awake in Ciel good end.
>>140836139
He talks about being in the garden.
We're would imaginary demons and true demons be on the power list
>>140833945
Funny that you mention DAA. It was stated that since hordes of Heroic Spirits are being summoned in FGO the law of humanity is at it's strongest, so creatures of death like DAA are far weaker than they were in Tsukihime.
>>140836436
Daily Reminder that Sacchin can hard counter most servants with her Depletion Garden
>>140832574
To be fair, according to legend, Solomon is ALWAYS right. Fucking God himself states that everything Solomon does is inherently good and correct. He's not defined by an alignment, he defines the alignment.
>>140836158
What is the difference between fate and naruto at this point?
>Holy spear. Also known as Ron. It has been said that its true form is that of something which fasten together the two sides of the world. When releasing the True Name, both Rank and classification change.
>Originally, this holy spear is the "pillar of light" that sews together the two sides of the world, and it has been said that - in the unlikely event that this is undone - the current world that has been composed by the laws of physics will be torn off, and the many laws of illusion that became things of the past will appear. Due being the "king" that stood at the final moments of illusion and the Age of Gods, she possesses this holy spear that conceals such tremendous power.
>Unleashing the holy spear’s true name requires the removing of half of the spear’s 13 restraints. Upon this, the holy spear releases a portion of the power drawn from the light shining at the edge of the world. This property is believed to be on the same level as the planet’s holy sword of world salvation.
>It also makes her tits grow
BRAVO NASUmuh dick tho
>>140836922
>Holy spear. Also known as Ron.
What the flying fuck is this and whose weapon is it?
>>140836922
>the holy spear releases a portion of the power drawn from the light shining at the edge of the world.
>the light shining at the edge of the world.
The what?
>>140837103
Arthur.
>>140837242
>>140837236
It's chunnispeak to make it look cool anon, it shoots a stronk beam. Nasu is chunni as fuck.
>>140837242
How comes alter is always so much better han the original?
>>140837326
AYO HOL UP
I SAID THE SPEAR MAKES HER TITS GROW BUT THATS DUMB AS FUCK
SO IF SHE DIDNT GET AVALON AND STOP AGING, IS THAT WHAT SHE WOULD'VE LOOKED LIKE?
THATS A FUCKING CRIME NASU YOU HACK.
>>140837236
It shoots a magical laser. Of course there's a ridiculous explanation of what the magical laser is and what it represents and all that, but in a practical sense the spear just blows shit up with a magical light show. The It's like how Excalibur is supposed to represent hopes and dreams or some shit, but what it does is just to fire a sword beam. Or how Romulus' weird feather duster thing makes a tree that represents Rome, but still all it does is smash shit really hard with a big tree.
