Hiroyama is moving things along. With last chapter people were speculating the first person flashback arc would go on for quite a while, I was on the low end of guesses and I still thought it'd be another 2-3 chapters. Instead straight back to the present, now it's a more normal flashback interspersed with him actually telling it and discussing it, so I guess there will only be one more detailing how his part ended and lead to the very start of F/KL. Maybe Luvia will get a page or two covering Miyu's start with her too, since of course we saw Illya's POV from the beginning.
I do continue to like how the author keeps slipping in subtle and realistic links to overall Nasuverse. It's not overdone or shoved in your face, and if someone was reading F/KL with no knowledge of nasuverse at all it'd fly right past them without leaving any question, but it adds a bit extra to the characters without any extra exposition.I guess Rin has one more reason to be pissed at the Ainsworths now.
I expected a stronger reaction from Kuro.
>>140797417
I think she already sensed it. Just like in UBW where Shirou got "better" merely by fighting with EMIYA due to crossover of skills and memories, we saw Kuro experience the same phenomenon. Plus she already went through her major (mental and LITERAL) existential crisis back in 2wei. So I think it makes sense she'd be somewhat at peace with it already, and be more like "oh, so that's how it was." She's the synthetic magus part of the personality as well.
Fate/Kaleid Liner PrismaIllya 3rei?
At this point, this is more appropriate for series:
> Fate/Kaleid Liner Prisma Ø EMIYA
>>140797874
(You)
Hang on. Is that numbering right? Vol 7 ends on Emiya install and that's listed as chapter 34. That chapter only came out 2 or 3 months ago.
reminder
>>140798697
Are you referring to published volumes? It's not uncommon for those to get consolidated and numbers a bit differently then what happens in the mag. 34 in the mag was back when Shirou was first humanizing Miyu.
>>140796870
What was Rin thinking about?
>>140799966
So basically we've been getting half chapters then. What exactly has hiroyama been doing this past few year?
>>140800648
Dark Souls addiction.
>>140800352
>>140800352
Secondary detec...
Oh wait, wrong thread.
>>140796870
>>140801297
I wonder what became of the Tohsakas in Mirror World? Clearly they were still there, and presumably one of the founding families again, probably still the Second Owner of the area. Obviously the Matous were still there and still twisted magi too. Did they get wiped out by the Ainsworths? Is there are mirror-Rin out there somewhere, in London maybe, or did she & pops just get killed already. If it's the latter wonder if we'll see them come up as soul dolls, or what other kinds of connections and landmines are waiting.
>Lolis are back
Finally.
>>140801541
The old bug and shinji at least both were killed pretty shortly as the 5th would have kicked off originally. Zouken probably wouldn't even have enough soul left (or it'd be too fucked up) to use in a doll though.
>That callback to Saber vs Dairmuid
Nice.
>>140801541
Probably died immediately from the blackhole thing,
Wait, so only Saber was a problem to Shirou? What the hell? What about Berserker?
>>140801988
The guy who installed it couldn't lift the stone sword.
>>140801752
This was a fun intermission, I enjoy it a lot when there is a whole cast of awesome characters along with the protagonists. We knew it'd be wrapping up shortly anyway, even if the author had wanted to spend another chapter or two on it it would have been fine.
I feel bad for people who can't enjoy all of F/KL, it's a total tour de force of a lot of nasuverse, even if it's centered around the magical threesome. Some variety makes it better.
>>140801988
Oniichan power stronk.
>>140802095
I like the Shirou flashback as well but holy hell I'd be lying if it wasn't a complete trudge because this shit was monthly. I can understand the frustrations of some anons.
It didn't help how every chapter that came out ever since the flashback started somehow got shorter and shorter in terms of page count.
>>140802063
> guy was too weak to withstand Heracles cardin Berserker
Fair enough I guess.
Who were the 4 others dolls though? Would have been nice to at least show them. The Lancer controller looks like Kayneth doesn't he?
>>140801988
Shirou said in the chapter that because he was actually drawing directly from a compatible Heroic Spirit that he was stronger on average than what were basically just disposable dolls.
>that cavern from HF
Hmm, I'm expecting UBW to be used either the next chapter or the one after that, but I wonder if he'll continue with the HF parallels with a Sparks Liner High scene or something.
>>140802186
> Monthly
> barely more pages than a weekly
It's slow as fuck.
>>140802193
Yeah but Berserker is kind of a special case.
>>140802186
The content was great imo, just the short weekly length chapters at a monthly pace was suffering and made it feel like it was going on much too long.
Is Hiroyama sick or suffering from a hand injury or something?
>>140801988
See page related. Installing a card by itself doesn't mean the base medium doesn't matter. A more powerful person using it, or someone who is more in sync with the core of the card, can be more effective and conversely it's possible to suck with it.
As readers we didn't really see this much because the girls are all Grails or close to it, and/or can use the kaleidosticks as a medium, and thus by definition have h4x compatibility and ridiculous prana pools. Now we're seeing more what it's like if regular magi or substitutes are using them.
>>140802258
So beside the being betrayed part, the Einzbern's grail system is superior after all.
>>140802316
>Einzbern grail system
>superior
Bit of a tangent, but I've been rereading Heaven's Feel lately and I'd forgotten how perfectly retarded the Einzberns were in every grail war. It's so stupid, yet somehow believable that they'd fuck up they bad.
>>140802586
>yet somehow believable that they'd fuck up they bad.
Because they were always portrayed as magical autists. They shut themselves away doing great research completely ignorant of the fact that they'd completely lost touch with reality. When they finally figured out why they were losing so much and brought in outside help, they still lost because of their previous fuckups. Plus, Summoning Hercules as Berserker was a legitimately smart move which helped make them seem less ridiculously incompetent, showing they learned from past mistakes.
>>140800648
>So basically we've been getting half chapters then.
The recent chapter names have had "part one" and "part two" on them, so I'd guess that would be the case (and why we've been getting so little content)
>>140802186
The plot was barely moving forward before the flashback began. The previous fight was dragging on and on. Once that's out of the way and we could see something happen, we get a fucking flashback that lasts for months and doesn't really do anything for the story that couldn't be explained in a single chapter.
I wish Bazett would start punching things again.
During last arc's fight she did fucking nothing.
I miss that time she beat the shit out of little girls with her fists.
>>140802186
>monthly trudge
Yeah, but that's just how it goes, you get used to it (or at least I have over the course of 20 years). To some extent it's also much more of a quirk of English fandom, because it's extremely common for scanlators to only start with a series after a significant amount is already out (people tend to be more interested in putting in the effort for something that they can see they'll get a certain amount of enjoyment out of). So we end up with the pattern of chapters pumping out as fast until suddenly the scanlators catch up and crash into the monthly (or even less frequent) release wall.
If you can read the original moon it's better because a typical good couple of mags are cheap and have a bunch of series you read, so even if they're only one chapter a month individually it spreads out. But to some extent yeah the frustration is there but it can't be helped. The market has proved most people prefer this release format to releasing 6 months all at once or something like that. You could always just hold off for the tank for the same effect anyway.
>>140802190
>Kayneth
Yes, that was him.
It's annoying that Diarmuid jobbed just like that, but after seeing all those heroic spirits used as fodder in the previous fight I guess I should give up on wanting some other heroic spirits to be important cards.
>>140804350
> Diarmuid
Wasn't that Cu? That's the 5th holy war after all.
>>140802691
>Because they were always portrayed as magical autists. They shut themselves away doing great research completely ignorant of the fact that they'd completely lost touch with reality.
It's something of a circular issue though: there's a certain amount of inherent insularness in magecraft, since more people doing the same mystery diminishes it, most families can only have a single heir for their crest, etc. And Magic or even things approaching it often really does need someone to be pretty divorced from reality (something like an RM is basically literally a projection of how warped and twisted someone's core worldview is from realty). It's also hard to pursue a singular goal for hundreds of years or more while not getting a little warped and fucked up along the way, particularly taking all the other problems into account.
Really, Mages in general are gigantic dicks and weirdos, and the higher class the more that's the case. More practically minded ones who focus on applying it are actively looked down upon and disdained by the pure researchers.
>>140804350
Did we ever knew who was the friend who turned EMIYA to the police in the Extra timeline?It was Shinji, wasn't it?
>>140804419
You're right, that's Cu.
I'm an idiot.
>>140801240
Seeing the pose of Berserker in this chapter I want to believe you.
How do you feel about Kuro being interrogated via tentacle rape?
>>140797874
EMIYA arc is great. People bitching about actual plot can get fucked.
>>140804558
Never played extra with Archer. What's the deal?
>>140804419
I don't think there is necessarily any inherent link to the spirits that showed up in the Einzburn 5th HGW, we've seen a much bigger variety are available to the Ainsworths, and at any rate it'd make sense if they pulled from whatever was useful or compatible.
As far as who fast wheels installed, frankly can't tell from the picture. We've seen Installed costumes can vary to some extent vs the direct heroic spirit (or reflect different aspects or points in the life of said HS). The shafts of gae dearg and gae bolg look basically identical, it's the spear head/cap that's most distinct. Could go either way from that image.
>>140804687
In this version, he was a mercenary but had friends and family who supported him then one friend feared him and turned him to the police then promptly executed under people's law.
>>140804687
Aside from the usual sarcasm and snark, he's actually really mellow since there's no "Kill Shirou and stop being a CG" sub-plot. He's very fun, and totally became brown after going through a fifty floor building to shut down a nuclear reactor.
>>140804623
>it's a stale of magical girl interrogation
Damn right.
>>140804623
That it'd leave Rin with even more mental scarring if she ever found out what happened to Sakura.Also the one who should pop kuro's magic crest is illya.
>>140804779
>and totally became brown after going through a fifty floor building to shut down a nuclear reactor.
He says that's not how it happened and that Hakuno is dumb for even thinking it. He went brown because of using his magic.
>>140804623
Are the flashbacks over? I'd expect the next chapter to be about how Super Shirou used to UBW to save Miyu and then how he gets btfo'd by Angelica.
>>140804779
>totally became brown after going through a fifty floor building to shut down a nuclear reactor.
Not true. I believe the MC thinks that was what made him brown, but he then says it was it use of magic that did it.
See last screencap of pic.
>>140805009
>Hakuno
The name is Francis Xavier.
If Miyu Shirou went to Ilyaverse, would he become Illya Shirou's Kuro?
Also, we need easier names to differentiate between the two Shirou's.
>>140805174
>If Miyu Shirou went to Ilyaverse, would he become Illya Shirou's Kuro?
Uh, nothing? Miyu Shirou is not the one who became EMIYA. He's the conceptual opposite of EMIYA, which is why EMIYA was so eager to help him.
Miyu Shirou is basically HF Shirou.
>>140805046
The Gil card was sent over with the rest and Angelica didn't get it back till she showed up at the end of 2wei. So she got btfo apparently.
She was only confident in their rematch because he tried and failed to use UBW.
>>140805324
Oh you're right. Atleast we know now the source of the spawning cards in Illyaverse.
>>140805174
Eh, in an FKL discussion everyone will know what you mean if you just say "Mirror Shirou" or whatever if you want to be specific. Although frankly just "Shirou" is enough in general because he's nearly 100% irrelevant in their original world. He's simply a normal goofy big brother, for once in his existence he's not distorted or on a nasty path at all. No sign he's got even the slightest magecraft, it'd be too late for him at this point anyway and he hasn't got the mindset remotely.
So pretty much anytime anyone talks about Shirou it's going to be mirror Shirou. You could say something like "Shirou (fkl)" vs "Shirou (fate)" or "Shirou (ubw)" or whatever else I guess if you wanted to compare this version to what happened in other world lines. That's how a lot of people talk about Servants.
>>140805267
>Miyu Shirou is basically HF Shirou
Yeah, that's obvious. When i said
>would he become Illya Shirou's Kuro
I was joking about the kind of relationship the two could have and how they might explain how they look.
>which is why EMIYA was so eager to help him.
Was he? Did I speedread the last chapter because I don't remember that. I think, like in HF Archer may not want Shirou to follow his path, but he disproves of him basically ignoring and sacrifcing the majority to save just one person. Archer's kind of tsundere for his ideal, but I think he still believes in it in some weird way.
Hence the whole "Emiya Shirou will be judged by himself" stuff and the warning Archer gave Shirou before he made his decision in Heaven's Feel
>>140805474
Yeah, "Shirou" is usually enough but it's annoying comparing the two in the same post. Though I've just remembered that people call the other one "fluffy Shirou" which I like better than Illya Shirou.
>>140805267
Yep, and that's probably related to >>140805324
>because he tried and failed to use UBW.
Would it even be possible for this Shirou to use UBW at all? His conceptual foundation is completely different from EMIYA's, if he wanted to manifest it he'd have to develop his own different version/aria. Or does the card system bypass that and the issue is just he ran out of prana or something more basic? He doesn't have Rin to give him a boost here like he did against Gil.
Come to think of it, has Avalon come up yet anywhere? I assume this one does not have it (or he'd have simply regenerated from the damage we saw him take far more easily).
>>140805489
Yeah Archer didn't actually discard his ideal. The whole reason he was so shocked in HF was because to him, the idea of Emiya Shirou actually doing so was a literal impossibility.
>>140805639
>Would it even be possible for this Shirou to use UBW at all?
MiyuShirou DID use UBW against Angelica the first time they fought, that's how he won. However, he burnt himself out. He tried to do it again when they fought a second time and it fizzled on him. he probably gets a buff from the Card system, but I don't think it's as big of a buff as he gets in FSN from JACKHAMMERING.
>>140805489
I think "eager" would be reading too much into it, he himself seemed pretty self-aware about what kind of wish it was. But though it was probably more due to a certain twisted sense of irony and old tired fondness for the same damned fool throwing himself into something way over his head once again, EMIYA did specifically respond.
>>140805639
The way they talked he had used it before, and the reason he couldn't was because he was still all fucked up.
Archer apparently mastered his tracing and UBW in life years before he made the deal with Alaya, so he can eventually do so solo with enough experience.
>>140805639
Maybe another version of UBW to the two we've seen before.
Didn't HF True End epilogue mention that Shirou should be able to use his RM if he practiced or something? Or did it just mean his projection abilities.
>>140805771
Archer mastered UBW in 2014 in the updated Canon, 10 years after the Grail War. I don't think it was long after that that he made his pact with Alaya. The scene itself is shown in the UBW anime, and it's a certain incident with a Nuclear reactor. He doesn't look more than 30 at all, definitely younger than F/Z Kiritsugu.
>>140805790
Any incarnation of Shirou can use UBW, because it's his own innate magic, it's just it requires both the impetus and the knowledge of thaumaturgy to figure it out.
>>140805846
The anime isn't more canon than, well anything. Certainly not Nasu's direct statements and stuff directly overseen and written by him like Extra. He made the deal in this early thirties, and that point was long after his hair went white and shit. He certainly didn't still look exactly the same like in the anime.
>>140804623
But why is tentacle rape so effective against magical girls? Wouldnt magical girls develop techniques to resist them?
>>140805790
>Didn't HF True End epilogue mention that Shirou should be able to use his RM if he practiced or something? Or did it just mean his projection abilities.
That's what I meant by "come up with his own", he's still distorted. If he can trace some form of UBW must still be there because tracing is just an extension of that, not like typical Gradation Air, the actual reproduction happens within UBW. RMs are personal by definition however, and HF Shirou diverged too far to overlap and use EMIYA's in any way.
>>140805738
>>140805771
That's right, I'd forgotten. I'm looking forward to seeing that come up though and seeing exactly how the fight went down, did he purely burn out or did Angelica have any further role? Can she use Ea? Because that would just be horse shit and let her bust out in a hurry, but Ea (and Gil himself) is such an anomaly that maybe there's some special rules there, or Gil himself haxxed the system if she tried. Or maybe she just never had the chance, same as Gil.
>>140805893
Yeah, I was just thinking of when HF Shirou said he couldn't make the UBW reality marble in the Nine Lives scene.
I suppose he meant he couldn't use Archer's version of the reality marble, and had to find his own like UBW Shirou did.
>>140805956
His early 30's would mean it was only a few years after he figured out UBW (which would have been sometime between 27 and 29). Shirou must have gotten more than just power out of Alaya because he had a severe case of babyface before he became a Guardian.
>>140801297
But Sakura is not Rin's sister here and unless I'm mistaken, there is no Sakura in that universe, or at least one I never saw.
>>140806085
It's always that dose of cynicism that makes anime characters age.
>>140806099
There is, she shows up in one of the early parts of the first Prisma series walking to school with fluffy Shirou.
>>140806085
Nope, he had white hair and was significantly taller than in the Grail War even back when he was a young dude using guns instead of swords from bows. The anime just straight up depicted that scene completely wrong.
I forget, did Illya have a reaction (that we were shown) to learning that her dad was a total shit in that universe and tried to sacrifice Miyu?
>>140806076
He probably beat down Angelica then got curb stomped by the Thor girl. Thor is kind of bullshit, even if he's technically only half god like Hercules.
>>140806085
He's in his second year of school in the Grail War. So it'd be 26 or 27 when he mastered UBW. Years before he made the deal with Alaya. Point is the deal didn't grant him the power to use UBW on his own. He only needs Rin because he's still shit tier compared to Archer in the Grail War.
>>140806156
If you're talking about this picture, then although he has white hair, his face looks younger than he did in the anime.
But yeah, I wish they'd given him Archer's colouring in that scene.
Actually I wish they'd taken the prisma route and done the brown patches and part white hair. I like that design.
>>140806302
A lot of that is just Extra's art style. But point is it makes it pretty clear the transition to Archer's looks and size was a process that happened quasi naturally rather than anything from becoming a Guardian.
>>140806254
>Point is the deal didn't grant him the power to use UBW on his own
Not who you're replying to but this. Archer was only able to conceptualise UBW after he died, but that doesn't mean it's not something he could have done while he was still human with more training
Pretty sure in the VN specifically mentions something along the lines of that in a certain amount of years he could train his magic circuit to produce the necessary mana to produce it without outside assistance.
>>140806154
If she exists and with fluff shirou then she shouldn't be a magus which means, the matou in this world are her birth family which means they aren't shitters this time, which means, that panel with Rin is meaningless and she's merely trying to maintain her cool over this messed up story rather than focusing on Sakura Matou of that world being killed by her abusive brother.
I can understand people seeing it that way because Rin and Sakura's fates are constantly intertwined in other media even through they aren't always together, There's no reason to assume that's in play here.
>>140806439
>Archer was only able to conceptualise UBW after he died
Nasu said he mastered it 10 years after the Grail War.
>>140806454
Rin is still a Magus, Sakura most likely is too. Fluffy Shirou's world is just a lot lighter in tone, so instead of a pit of worms it was probably a pit of puppies or something.
>>140806454
You might be legitimately autistic anon.
>>140806403
>looks and size was a process that happened quasi naturally rather than anything from becoming a Guardian.
I think the size at least was made clear in the anime. In the epilogue he wasn't quite Archer tall, but definitely taller. Probably Kerry-ish tall. And his facial structure was somewhere between Archer and normal Shirou - it was mainly the eye size/shape that was different from Archer, which is usually used in anime to reflect the personality and mindset of a character anyway.
>>140806483
Didn't he specifically say in UBW that he was never able to use UBW (as in the whole reality marble, not just projection) until after he died, hence it couldn't be called his Noble Phantasm?
>>140806569
Size is easily explained. Shirou is obsessed with two things: Swords, and the shame of being a manlet.
So he projected his insecurities and got taller.
>>140806454
Sakura also appears in one of the .5 chapters of zwei and Rin knows who she is although they don't interact with eachother.
And really, there is reason to assume Rin knows Sakura. Her reaction is enough. And even if there was no reason, that does not mean you assuming they don't know eachother is any better, as you have just as much proof at this point.
You're just doing it because you don't want more Sakura involvment or something.
>>140806539
>Fluffy Shirou's world is just a lot lighter in tone,
I wonder how the anime's going to cope with the change in tone in Miyuverse.
>it was probably a pit of puppies or something.
Maybe Sakura's tragic backstory is just that Zouken kicked her puppy or something
>>140806738
Assuming Kiritsugu completely stopped the Grail War from happening,maybe that was enough to change the timeline?
>>140806641
>So he projected his insecurities and got taller.
kek
>tfw Shirou reinforced his body with swords to grow taller after she should have stopped growing.
He ends up unusually tall for a nip, doesn't he? Any asian characters in nasuverse are his height or taller?
>>140806861
Archer is like 6'2 or 6'3, so very tall for a nip. The only other major (non-servant) characters close to that height are Waver and Kotomine.
>>140806454
>If she exists and with fluff shirou then she shouldn't be a magus which means, the matou in this world are her birth family which means they aren't shitters this time, which means, that panel with Rin is meaningless and she's merely trying to maintain her cool over this messed up story rather than focusing on Sakura Matou of that world being killed by her abusive brother.
Uh no, you're entirely off on your timeline there. In FKL world, the divergence point is the 4th Grail War, where instead of going through with it Kiri chooses to put his wife/daughter first and destroy the whole thing. The Tohsakas, Matous, and Einzberns are still the three founding families and all exist and were all magi. Sakura wasn't given away because of anything inherent to the HGW, she was given to the Matous because of her talent. A normal magus family can only have a single heir (there's one whose name I forget that have a sorcerous trait that lets them have two, I think they were in the 3rd HGW), so Rin was picked and then Sakura sent to the Matous who had their magical potential dying out, where her molding was begun immediately.
So fluffy Sakura (and Shinji for that matter) should be LESS fucked up, because the system was dismantled so she would no longer be shaped into a false grail even if Zouken was still alive (and it's perfectly possible he was killed as part of the whole thing). But the basic factors leading to her being sent off still happened and she still went through some bad shit first, just less. FKL is fluffy on the surface but it's still Nasuverse anon. Illya's happy normal life was built on a mountain of corpses, even if a lot said corpses were total jackasses.
>>140806786
>tfw Zouken's now stuck with this kid he doesn't want and serves no use to him
Maybe prisma Sakura is even more suffering.
Shirou's lost his Sakura anyway, if he makes it out alive maybe he'll get with her and they can be the couple of suffering in Illyaverse together.
>>140806539
Fucking Crest Puppies licking all over loli Sakura.
>>140806944
>she was given to the Matous because of her talent
Yeah, that happened well before the 4th even started. Hell, remember that pops thought this was a GOOD THING, it wasn't desperation or whatever he was super pleased because it made total sense from a Magus point of view. No reason to believe he'd have done it regardless. And Zouken would still have wanted her potential for his own purposes too since Kariya would have still been NOPE (even more so in fact) and Sakura had vastly more potential anyway, Matou were rotting.
>>140807067
So Illyaverse Sakura may have still gotten raped by worms? When did the worm rape begin, again?
>>140807175
Literally the day Zouken got a hold of her. But like the other anon said, Zouken could have been removed from the equation a while back when Kiritsugu dismantled the grail system (it would have had to have been at least 9 years prior, since Illya is 10). It's possible that Kariya is the de-facto head of the family by the time Sakura was fostered.
>>140807175
>>140807258
Sakura was handed off the the Matou 6-7 years before the story starts in FSN, so if Kerry dismantled the grail then Zouken would be dead by the time she was fostered in Prisma verse. Zouken has died in every timeline when the Fuyuki grail is dismantled, so I think it's fairly reasonable to assume fluffy Sakura is worm free.
>>140807258
So we'd assume that Kariya still left, then returned when he learned of Zouken buying the farm.
Man, we need more info, this is all speculah, even if it is interestinf speculah.
>>140807175
Zouken started converting Sakura practically right away. The whole point of her to him was to either be a false grail or serve to give the Matou bloodline a boost down the road so her child could be his tool for fighting the 5th, so of course he began working on remaking her into a Matou same as he messed with Shinji. In F/Z she's in the pit well before any Servants are even summoned, in fact before Kariya even realized it and then volunteered to try to take over for her (Zouken was just going write off the 4th entirely, hell he still did he just thought seeing Kariya suffer would be amusing and there was always a minimal outside chance he'd actually pull it off).
So exactly HOW much she suffered depends on whether Zouken was killed or not and when, and if not how his plans changed afterwards, but she definitely still was sent off and worm raped. Rin likely also has no real idea same as normal, and the flash of sadness/regret we see is more about what happened to mirror-Sakura and lingering regret over the split. She wouldn't know exactly what Sakura went through without having found out during the course of the 5th.
>>140807381
Well, that's a relief. At least there's a Sakura that didn't get raped by worms.
>>140807505
She's still top slut in any alternate universe though.
Nasu confirmed it.
>>140807435
We can assume Rin still misses her fluffy imouto sometimes, I guess. That'd be the source of her grief after Shirou's story, as you said.
>>140807544
Oh, that's a given, yeah. Fluff-slut.
>>140807381
>>140807421
Fluffy Sakura has been changed to look like FSN Sakura Matou though (or mirror Sakura for that matter). So she was worm raped to some extent, full stop, or we'd see a version of her that looked more like Rin without the Matou traits brought on by the crest worms. Kiri must have made his decision to dismantle the Grail System relatively close to what would have been the start of the 4th, which makes sense.
Actually have we ever seen official art of what Sakura would have grown up to look like if she'd never been implanted with crest worms?
>>140802691
The Einzberns are sad robots, so they lack the common sense.
>>140807626
Sakura had purple hair even before she went to the Matou. We see her before worm rape in Zero. The way she looks doesn't change.
>>140807578
Yeah, Rin is a 1st class magus, so she's actually pretty understanding of her father's logic and accepts it mostly, but can't help but feel some lingering attachment. This time it's probably more out of regret for what this version went through though then what she thinks her version went through. It'd be kind of interesting if she came across something in Mirror World that tipped her off to exactly what the Matou magic is and how it works, but this story isn't about her at all and the Matous are also just a historical footnote here so I don't see that happening.
>>140806617
Not really.
>>140806944
If the grail was dismanted how did Shirou fluff end up without a family here then, the fire starting from Saber and Archer's battle didn't happen here as nobody says that 10 years ago Fuyuki had a massive fire so by that logic Fluff Shirou should still be with the unamed family he used to have rather than being the one we know .
>>140807703
Are you trolling us?
>>140807852
Kerry probably killed fluffy's Shirou's family in the battle to dismantle the grail to save Illya or something. Who knows, don't ask smart questions like that and just enjoy the show.
>>140807852
Yeah this is a huge plothole. Shirou doesn't need to be adopted if the 4th war didn't happen.
>>140807703
No she didn't she and Rin had blue eyes and black hair during that scene where cuckboi went to visit them, then the next time we see Sakura she's purple haired and broken in the pit.
>>140807852
Picture related. Even if it wasn't in the fire apparently Shirou would have ended up an orphan anyway due to simple accident. Dude has tough karma. Pointless to speculate on exactly how he ended up an orphan in FKL, doesn't really matter either since he's mostly irrelevant.
>>140807852
Rin and Wavers battle with Zouken when they come back to dismantle the grail after FSN leaves much of Fuyuki as a ruin. Same thing. The disaster in Fuyuki is some sort of nexus point that *must* happen because of reasons, but the how and why are up to circumstances. Kiritsugu vs Zouken causes collateral damage leading to something similar to the events at the end of the 4th.
>>140807919
>>140807982
>plot hole
Jesus fuck the manga literally touched on it. Do you really think grail war disasters are the only way people can die in a city?
>>140807986
He purple hair in fluffyverse is evidence that fluffy Sakura was worm raped.
Or maybe the fluffy explanationnis that it's hairdye so she can integrate better with her foster family or some shit.
>>140808048
People die when they're killed, so Kerry was obviously responsible.
>>140807994
>simple accident
Yeah it was another "gas explosion".
>>140808016
Fuyuki is a really powerful spiritual land regardless of human history though right? Lot of leylines, that's why it had a second owner at all. So it'd always attract conflict from magi for that reason. No matter the universe somebody would want to use the power for something.
>>140807994
Oh...well, I suck worms for bein a filthy secondary, then.
>>140808162
>Fuyuki is a really powerful spiritual land regardless of human history though right
The most powerful, and one of the only ones in East Asia. Shirou is basically confirmed to get screwed over in any universe he incarnates in anyway. It's not a matter of If, just How.
>>140808228
Shirou had a hard life...
>>140808081
Nah see >>140807867. Adult version of that is what non-worm'd Sakura would look like, in eyes/eyebrows at least even if she felt like changing her hair. Fluffy Sakura clearly still went through some shit, just way less and she's had years and years to recover since. I like the idea of an uncorrupted Kariya working to make things right or at least better.
>>140807626
She has purple hair in Apocrypha and wasn't worm raped there. They just made up excuses to keep her trademark design.
>>140808228
The most powerful in Japan is Misaki, which is under the Aozaki family anon.
I wonder what Sakura would be like, personality wise if she were to be raised alongside Rin, practically unrecognizable,yeah?
>>140808491
Likewise for Extra where she isn't even real and Shinji is a 7 year old internet troll.
>>140808536
Why the fuck is Japan such a clusterfuck of spiritual lands.
Why is there no porn of kuro raping illya? It's always consensual.
Based on some of the stuff we see in Fate games and the like, without Zouken fucking up the family Shinji might have been a pretty awesome big bro. Hell, given what a fucked up world Mage families live in, even if she had initial worm trauma fluffy Sakura might genuinely have ended up in a pretty happy place if it's Kariya as family head and a bro Shinji. No mage shit, no war. She probably would always miss Rin to some extent, but ultimately she could do pretty well.
>>140808586
It's not. It was chosen for the Fuyuki grail war because it was ultimately a remote and magically irrelevant part of the world, so if anything went wrong nobody would really care. There's only two or three places in Japan worth jack, magically speaking.
>>140808491
Apocrypha? ain't that suppose to be Saber's daughter/son's story along with Jeanne of Arc's? What's Sakura doing there? Are you sure you don't mean Grand Order? Physically she's not there but she,Shirou and Rin show up as a little bit older and I assume, in their HA incarnations since Sakura has that arm band and Shirou has no corruption on him from projection magic
>>140808560
I remember a nice edit of Dark Sakura's sprite to have Rin's colouring next to Rin - they really looked like sisters.
Anyone have it?
>>140808586
Anon, supposedly the other countries also have good lands, but they are closer to the association than Japan.
>>140808536
Is there a list of leyline locations?Only other I can recall is notRomania from Apocrypha.
>>140808702
It's a minor-footnote heads up character. Not a focal one. Sakura is raised by Luvia's family there. Luvia dotes on her little sister and they are a team of wrestling magi.
>>140808586
Because Nippon Banzai.
>>140808758
Not really, the other one that comes to mind is the one in America where Strange Fake happens. But I think that a good rule of thumb is that most magical stuff happen around leylines and stuff.
>>140808793
Literally the opposite though. Fate Japan is small time and the only decent Magus family is a bunch of Christians who got a helping hand from a German.
>>140808774
That sounds hilarious and Rin's worst nightmare, being imouto ntr'd.
>>140808774
That sounds very comfy.
I'd read it.
>>140808624
Would you rape yourself?
>>140808963
if i was a brown loli bisexual magical girl who needed mana from sex? of course.
Angelica vs Shirou using UBW when? I still want to see that fight.
>>140807505
Same goes for the ones from CCC and Realta Nua.
>>140808586
Two is not a lot. It's also one of the most remote possible places from the heart of active magecraft (think off all of Luvia's digs at "barbarians") so it hasn't been exploited/claimed as fuck like a lot of the rest of the world, and its historical isolation is helpful from a practical respect in other ways too.
>>140808491
>>140807703
Canon is she's a Tohsaka. If she looks different it's due to some sort of magi shit or a simple error (or it was some random thing nobody really gave much thought too).
>>140809032
Almost 100% certainly next chapter. Shirou's story will probably be wrapped up at that point, I'd be surprised if it even went one more chapter though I guess two isn't out of the question if they cover a bit of Miyu's first experience in the other world before the very start of FKL.
>>140809032
Probably never since the next chapter is probably the end of the flashback.
Going by Aoi a grown up non-worm'd Sakura would probably be pretty milftastic.
Can someone explain to me what makes Rin and Sakura such special magus that if they weren't protected by being Tohsoka or Matou they'd be subject to experimentation by the clock tower? I mean, Rin just throws jewel bombs and Sakura has shadow puppets, what's so amazing about that?
so will illya add erika to her harem too in the end or will it stick to ot3 and erika stays in mirror world or does friend sacrifice or whatever?
>>140809985
They have Rare elements.
>>140809160
>>140809165
Though I think we're still getting half chapters, so "next chapter" might be "in two chapters" instead.
Why is Hiroyama so lazy now?
>>140809985
Rin has the potential to be in the top 100 most powerful Magi in clock tower History, having affinities to Four different elements, and Sakura was just as powerful except her Origin is Imaginary Number. Plus that kind of thing is literally normal for the unneeded children of Magi.
>>140810252
He got so good that Nasu noticed him and started inviting Hiroyama to their gaming night and caught the Dark Souls bug.
>>140809985
I don't remember the "experimenting" bit, but in terms of potential it's massive, particularly for such a young bloodline. There are 5 "great elements" and Rin was born capable of manipulating all of them which is really rare. She's got circuits of unusual quantity and quality, and is also just plain smart and really fucking good at magecraft. She can handle a number of different areas. I think it was said she has the potential to be in the top 100 magi in the Association.
Sakura has similar potential but not the 5 element part. I can't remember if she was born with Imaginary Numbers or got that later. But she's still unusual, which was why Tokiomi monologged about regretting having to pick one or the other to be his heir and was excited that both would get a chance to be magi. Though even though he's got a different view of morality then normal humans I think he might have chosen otherwise if he'd known more about Zouken purely due to seeing her being used purely for birth as a waste and dishonor to the bloodline.
>>140810451
Rin has excellent potential as a sex slave
>>140810274
>>140810451
Now, that makes me wonder, if they're so special if they both were to mate with Shirou to convice a child how strong would those kids be? What if Shirou knocked up Saber or Rider, how strong would that kid be?
Maybe that doujin where the girls rape Shirou for his man juice was on to something.
What about, and this is a big what if, a child by Shirou and Bazett the virgin?
>>140810274
>>140810451
All the potential did mean they'd need a mage household to educate and protect them. Not merely just to git gud, but there's lots of forces in the world that might seek to use them as tools or resources or for possession or whatever if they were just untrained and protected on their own. That's also part of why Tokiomi did it. Of course Zouken was lying about what he intended, he just wanted a passive tool himself and purposefully fucked her up and kept her bad.
Had he not died I wonder if Tokiomi would have taken action in the future once it became clear Sakura was being wasted/wrecked after all.
>>140810698
Shirou is shit tier. Reality Marbles aren't heritable since they're entirely the product of a mixture of autism and PTSD.
Then again, if you take this scene literally and Shirou DOES have >100 magic circuits, the fact that they're shit quality would take a back seat to sheer quantity, but most people assume this is hyperbole.
Also Bazett isn't a virgin, confirmed in HA. She fucked her boss to get her job.
>>140810818
>Also Bazett isn't a virgin, confirmed in HA. She fucked her boss to get her job.
>>140810818
You sure? That seems kinda out of character for her.
>>140810698
Dude what? Shirou is shit, he'd drag down their bloodline if anything. He's interesting precisely because he's a garbage magus who has managed to make up for it in one area due to circumstance and massive specialization (and ultimately even that isn't enough, hence his contracting in the future). Ainsworths are like him: they took a magic most mages learned as a baby-tier tutorial and then dismissed as worthless and refined it so much that it actually became something potentially amazing.
And Sakura/Saber/Rin just liked him, there was no mage calculation involved. In the case of the former two if their kid had a lot of potential they might have to rope in Rin to help somewhat because neither would be capable of much training themselves.
>>140810818
No anon, Shirou has 27 circuits, that line is using the hundred as a hyperbole.
>>140810920
>You sure? That seems kinda out of character for her.
Avenger asks her if she's a virgin and she says "I've had some work related experience".
>>140810300
Fate/Souls when?
>>140810818
Shirou has 27 natural circuits, though he was fucking himself over for years by using his nerves because his training was shit. His circuit quality is pretty mediocre, but the count is decent enough for a first-generation magus.
Shirou's abilities though as you say are almost entirely the product of circumstance rather then bloodline. Even his Origin and Elemental Affinity are both Sword due to Avalon, UBW (and its realization/effectiveness) is due to that, his distortion, and his participation in the grail war. None of that carries over. He did get to where he is from birth.
>>140811132
Shirou is still perfect for Rin for a completely different reason though. He can create perfect counterfeits of historical artifacts which she can sell for money.
Literally a match made in a back alley.
>>140810956
Ah, I guess there are no "pure" girls in Nasu town.
>>140810931
27 is above average though isn't it?
20 is the average for a magus I thought. I think I saw on thewikithat Aoko only has around 30 herself.
Could that number circuits be something that would be passed on, or is it just part of his RM?
>>140810920
>You sure? That seems kinda out of character for her.
See >>140810956, but also if you think about it you shouldn't be too surprised. She's not the type to particularly care, it's just another means to an end. She's not some over emotional tween girl, she's fucking Bazett. It's just sex.
>>140811213
Aoko has a low number, but she makes it work since she is very efficient. She was compared to a car that runs 100km with one gallon in the tank.
Also while Shirou is above average in circuit number, the quality is poor, and overall nothing that special, but sure they could be passed down with some luck.
>>140811209
There is one.
>>140811213
27 is fantastic for a first generation magus. 20 is average for a middling Bloodline. It's just that Rin's pedigree is so much higher. Makes you wonder who Shirou's real family were. Seems unlikely that they were completely unconnected. I always headcanon'd it as them being a middle of the road Magi family that had come to observe the grail war.
>>140811193
>. He can create perfect counterfeits of historical artifacts which she can sell for money.
kek. Actually, didn't the epilogue of the anime have him projecting some blades for practice or something? I was wondering if he could sell them.
Shirou and Rin living together in L O N D O N canon story when?
Hell, it can be combined in a story of how Shirou become Archer after the Fate route. Didn't Nasu say he went to London?
Do we know how many circuits Kerry had?
>>140811268
>She's not some over emotional tween girl, she's fucking Bazett. It's just sex.
There should be more girls like that it anime and stuff, without making a big deal out of it like they're damaged or something.
>>140811389
>Shirou and Rin living together in L O N D O N canon story when?
I've always wanted an UBW sequel focusing on them coming back to Fuyuki with Waver and Luvia to dismantle the Grail system.
>Shirou vs Zouken after finding out about Sakura
>Shirou getting all patchy during the fight, with his hair starting to go white like in 3rei
>etc
Fate Route isn't the Archer route though. It differs in some key points.
>>140811311
>27 is fantastic for a first generation magus.
Aren't some of Shirou's though from him converting his nerves? Shit it's been too long, I'm getting fuzzy on details. Nerve conversion of course is normally never done because it's fucking stupid and can completely destroy you, but most people don't have an EX rank recovery NP embedded in them either I guess. And he still had circuits to start with anyway.
>It's just that Rin's pedigree is so much higher.
Rin's (and Sakura's) is fucking incredible even for her pedigree, think she's only like 5th generation or so? By Association standards she's nada. Comes up a certain amount, Zelretch for example expected the Tohsakas to take like another 2-3 generations to complete his homework assignment.
>Makes you wonder who Shirou's real family were. Seems unlikely that they were completely unconnected. I always headcanon'd it as them being a middle of the road Magi family that had come to observe the grail war.
Spontaneous emergence does happen once in a while, but yeah I've seen a number of stories where fans have played with this and what his origin could have been. RE-emergence is more likely, like a bloodline that "died out" ages in the past, but that happened to come back together in him in a rare way. There have been cases of other mage families that were diminishing and then produced a rare genius.
>>140811471
Isn't Sakura implied to die at the end of UBW's?
>>140811268
I guess I was too used to seeing her spill jelly over Lancer so much that I thought she was kinda too stupid for sex.
>>140811471
>Fate Route isn't the Archer route though. It differs in some key points.
I think I've read an interview with Nasu in which he said he imagined Archer coming from "a Fate route Good end" or something like that.
Also, pretty much everything about your idea of a UBW sequel makes me wet.
Only thing that could be better is if Illya was somehow alive after UBW.
>>140811550
>Isn't Sakura implied to die at the end of UBW's?
No? I'm pretty sure it's stated that Shinji at least got better after that. Not that it would be all sunshine and happiness for her, but probably getting better.
>>140811471
Shinji kills Zouken in UBW. The first thing he did after getting Gil was going down and stomping him. Had an interlude where he's gloating while crushing the bodies of the last worms left in the basement. So either Zouken didn't put the soul worm in Sakura outside HF since he didn't plan to use her as anything more than a breeding stock, or once his main body is destroyed he's completely useless and can't do anything even if Sakura doesn't go dark, since Shinji is still fine a year later.
>>140811544
You're reading too many fanfics. Shirou does convert his nerves into a temporary circuit but emphasis on temporary. Avalon doesn't work at all without Saber nearby.
Tohsakas may have borrowed some help from the Edelfelts.
>>140811544
>Aren't some of Shirou's though from him converting his nerves?
Nope. By using his nerves, he was literally using his nervous system as a substitute for a single magic circuit, not creating a new circuit. That's why Rin basically calls him a retard.
>>140811617
Zouken is literally inside Sakura. They don't kill him in UBW, he's just so far gone with Soul Alzheimers that he doesn't even remember his original plan until Rin comes back to dismantle the grail.
>>140811697
>By using his nerves, he was literally using his nervous system as a substitute for a single magic circuit, not creating a new circuit. That's why Rin basically calls him a retard.
I always wondered why Kiritsugu never stopped him from doing something so dangerous. Did he not know? You'd think he would since he was the one that taught him.
>>140811617
>>140811697
Knowing Gil he probably has an Anti-Zouken NP somewhere in the vault.
>>140811745
Kiritsugu was not a smart man.
>>140811745
Kiritsugu was a shit teacher.
>>140811697
You should try actually reading what I wrote. If he put the soul worm in Sakura in the UBW route as well, then it doesn't matter since that means he's completely useless from that position even without Sakura going dark and going all "lolol you can't control me you chode". Shinji used Gil to kill Zouken and all his familiars and got away with it completely. He's still there, in Fuyuki, and he's completely and totally fine after wrecking Zouken's shit.
Gotta say, I know some people hate this sort of fate/wank, but it's nice talking to people on /a/ about Fate without it just being shitposting and people arguing about Zero and best girls. Been a while.
>>140796870
Where is Gil-kun?
>>140811193
>>140811389
In all seriousness Shirou's projections are in a different universe from standard gradation air, but they're still just projections made with prana and will be corrected by the world in time. They aren't true creation, which would be more like the first magic probably (denial of nothingness).
>>140811453
>Do we know how many circuits Kerry had?
I can't recall an exact number ever specifically coming up. Emiya wasn't that old a lineage, but at any rate Kerry of course mostly didn't give a shit about it. He got ahold of just enough of the crest to do Innate Time Control and some other misc shit and that's it, he only cared about practicality, polar opposite of a typical magus. Association still has the rest, research and so on IIRC. Even though an internal RM lowers prana requirements a ton he must have had a certain amount to be able to do it at all, but there's no sign he was an extraordinary magus in any respect, just a focused one as a Mage Killer. He figured out technology tricks as well that most magus would never touch, like judging circuit use via thermal imaging, so hard to say if he had more potential he couldn't be arsed with or just made up for it.
>>140811776
>>140811775
>literally consequetive posts
Nice.
I really really want a canon meeting where Kiritsugu finds out just about Archer and just how much he fucked up with Shirou. Poor guy probably had no idea.
>>140811860
Got his card back and immediately ran off rather than do anything remotely hype or interesting.
>>140811872
The way Illya talks about it in HF they're really not projection so much as cheating the system by having an internal world where he can create things that count as real and then just use them in the real world.
>>140811872
>Even though an internal RM
Huh? i know his Time Alter thing is kind of similar to a Reality Marble, but it doesn't count as one does it? Or am I misreading what you're saying.
>>140811894
Probably looting Kirei's shop tbqh
>>140811791
Shinji did not kill him in UBW. the only route he dies in is HF. For both Fate and UBW, Rin and Waver, or Rin, Waver and Shirou (maybe with Luvia) come back and kill him as they dismantle the Great Grail. Nasu has confirmed this.
The trigger for HF is Shirou going to the Matou household and identifying himself as an Emiya. This is what wakes Zouken up out of his daze and causes him to set his plan into motion. Zouken is barely holding on and his memories are fading, him just forgetting in other routes is more than plausible.
>>140811872
>They aren't true creation, which would be more like the first magic probably (denial of nothingness).
They are. That's why Rin freaks the fuck out when she goes into his shed and sees all his "projections". Shirou doesn't actually Project, his ability is Tracing. He creates actual, physical copies which caused Rin to leap to a hasty conclusion when she first found out.
Shirou's "Projections" do not degrade or fade, because he's not projecting, he's tracing.
http://bato.to/comic/_/comics/whats-cooking-at-the-emiya-house-today-r18712
Kek.
>>140811894
I wonder if we're going to see him and mapu-topu master together at some point.
I'm kinda curious about what's going to happen with Kotomine in general. I like frenemy Kirei better than plain villain Kirei
>>140812014
>Shota Gil finds out he cannot handle spicy food
>>140811975
>Nasu has confirmed this.
I'm pretty sure he never once mentions Zouken or the Matou when he talks about the conflict to dismantle the grail actually.
>>140811986
Souma crossover when?
I at least want fanart of Soma and Shirou battling.
>>140811986
>Cooking Manga with Shirou.
Well its ABOUT TIME.
>>140811633
>Shirou does convert his nerves into a temporary circuit but emphasis on temporary.
That's sort of what I thought, that it was just 27 natural, but I just couldn't remember. I am pretty sure though that each one is far inferior to Rin's as well in terms of how much energy it can actually handle. It's a high count for a first gen but the quality is about what you'd expect.
>Avalon doesn't work at all without Saber nearby.
At all? I know it only truly works as intended when supplied via Saber, but I thought that after all the years he had it embedded it provided some small benefit on its own and was part of the reason he could even last long enough after getting heartrekt by Lancer for Rin to do anything.
>>140812063
>>140811975
"Ten years after the Fifth War. Lord Emelloi the Second (real name, Waver Velvet. One of the Masters of the Fourth War) arrived in Fuyuki and together with the head of the Tohsaka line, set out to completely take apart the Great Grail. The Association was planning on bring back the Greater Grail, so the two sides were completely opposed. After the end of the great turmoil of the same magnitude as the Grail War, the Greater Grail was completely dismantled. The Grail Wars of Fuyuki came to a complete conclusion here. "
Yep. No mention of Zouken. The conflict is because of other interests in the Association. It also doesn't mention routes at all.
>>140812123
Shirou survived by being a stubborn jackass.
>>140812172
There you go then. Nothing confirming Zouken's survival in UBW.
>>140811745
Kerry was half dead and probably wasn't exactly all there at the end.
>>140812120
>Red hair, golden eyed cooking master
What if Souma was about a non-orphan no-ptsd Shirou all along?
>>140811975
Eh no, he is using standard projection anon, the thing is that Shirou's version is more complete since he recreates more of the souls/history of the weapons with the data and materials from UBW. Basically UBW allows Shirou to take an extra step that other people wouldn't be able to do, and makes projection more convenient.
Just because he uses Trace On as his aria, doesn't mean it's a completely new spell anon.
>>140811956
It's not no. It's similar in the sense that it's bounded field fuckery to define he difference between the world inside and outside the body, similar to how Nrvnsqr deploys his RM, but it isn't an RM.
>>140812177
>Shirou survived by being a stubborn jackass.
Sums up half the VN.
Other half
>>140812211
No wonder Shirou's so fucked up, PTSD aside - he barely remembers his original life and all he's got for parental figures are autist half dead Kerry and Fujinee.
>>140812177
UBW does also provide it's own fucked up form of defense and healing as well.
>>140811956
>Huh? i know his Time Alter thing is kind of similar to a Reality Marble, but it doesn't count as one does it? Or am I misreading what you're saying.
It's a Reality Marble. He keeps the bounded field constrained to his own body not affecting the world. The original Emiya magic was a kind of high-thaumaturgy bounded field that was not exactly an RM and definitely not true magic, but Kerry's is definitely an RM. Even fast wheels recognizes it right off. ITC is pretty restricted and limited use normally though plus self destructive, though Avalon lets him abuse it harder.
>>140811975
I'm like 99% sure they are definitely still a version of gradation air. He reproduces them inside UBW yeah, but then he projects them into the real world, they're prana constructs. The difference of Tracing vs standard Projection is that Shirou can reproduce the things entire history, special abilities and so forth, rather then just material/shape. It's incredible anyway and why Rin doesn't believe it's based on such a "worthless skill" but it's not true creation.
>>140812332
>, he is using standard projection anon
No, he is not. Standard projection requires the caster to use materials as a base to recreate the object. There is literally 20 minutes of VN specifically directed and explaining that Shirou does not use Projection. Reality Marbles are a degraded form of true magic. This is why Rin calls him a heretic and tells him not to let the cat out of the bag to other Magi.
He creates a crappy version of the Zeltretch Sword at the end of one of HF, using none of the materials Rin had acquired for him to "Project" with, because in HF Rin doesn't know he's tracing.
>>140812414
Ufo better deliver animating BODY MADE OF SWORDS.
>>140812332
Illya kind of explicitly explains that he's not at all though.
>>140812481
>No, he is not. Standard projection requires the caster to use materials as a base to recreate the object. There is literally 20 minutes of VN specifically directed and explaining that Shirou does not use Projection. Reality Marbles are a degraded form of true magic. This is why Rin calls him a heretic and tells him not to let the cat out of the bag to other Magi.
Was it implied there that when Kerry had told him it was a "useless ability" and not to do it that it was because he recognised it could put him in danger? Because I thought he was being a dick at first read until someone pointed that out to me.
>>140812474
It's not a reality marble. A reality marble is explicitly expressing your soul upon the world by replacing the world with the world of your own soul. THat's literally what defines a RM and it's not what he does. Kerry simply creates a bounded field and alters the flow of time inside it compared to the outside world. No soul shenanigans involved.
>>140812474
>t Kerry's is definitely an RM.
Source? Because everything I've seen supports >>140812356
>It's not no. It's similar in the sense that it's bounded field fuckery to define he difference between the world inside and outside the body, similar to how Nrvnsqr deploys his RM, but it isn't an RM.
I really doubt it's a RM, as I think Nasu/Gen would have been clear about it.
>>140812601
This. Can't be a reality marble without World Egg.
>>140812481
>Standard projection requires the caster to use materials as a base to recreate the object.
Now I know you're fucking with us, plain gradation air does not use materials it's just the shaping of prana. The world recognizes the result as a phantasm which is why it doesn't last.
That's also precisely why most magi consider it fucking useless for most purposes, you do way better by using the same energy with standard techniques and raw materials to actually make something real. Projection is considered inefficient and wasteful for no real result. You sure you aren't confusing this with Reinforcement? GA is related and is kind of a more complex version and they can be used together, but GA is almost universally considered worse in actual use.
Tracing is "just" an immensely more refined completed version utilizing UBW.
>>140812481
Yes, but that's becuase UBW provides the materials for him to trace with from the internal world. It's still the same spell as standard Projection but made more convenient/powerful by UBW.
>>140812514
It was more like Shirou's projection was not the same as the standard version because of what UBW helped im.
>>140812691
I think the easiest way to explain this is to draw parallels with another RM.
You know how Iskander can summon one of his allies into the real world indefinitely? Consider that the same way as Shirou with his RM. He just pulls the sword out of his mental world into this one.
>>140812558
No, Kerry told him it was a useless ability and that he shouldn't do it because Projecting is a useless ability and he shouldn't do it. Kerry didn't know that Shirou had a Reality Marble though.
>this thread
Ah, Fate/Autism we meet again.I actually like these stupid discussions.
>>140812691
>It was more like Shirou's projection was not the same as the standard version because of what UBW helped im.
I don't know how "What you're doing is not Gradation Air" can mean other than it's not Gradation Air.
>>140812674
Go read HF. Illya literally has around 200 lines of dialogue devoted to explaining that what Shirou does is not projection.
>>140812728
Hm, you'd think he'd notice that the stuff Shirou projected stayed around like Rin did though.
I suppose we're back to the whole "Kerry wasn't all there at that time" thing.
>>140812613
>>140812601
I'll have to re-read Fate/Zero Material and F/Z novel during the first castle fight, I thought I recalled both the former and Kayneth in the fight calling it an RM. Maybe I'm misremembering though.
Reality Marbles though do NOT have to be imposed on the world, even though that's the standard. Nrvnqsr's Lair of the Beast King was internal as well, and that was a key point of it because it massively lowered its cost since the world didn't see it as a problem in the same way.
>>140812901
They did in the anime, I don't know about the novel.
>>140812808
There's also the fact that, y'know, after a while, Kerry wasn't around to notice anymore.
>>140806454
Sakura exists, Rin and her are still sisters, she was still given away to Matou family, Zouken may have been killed when Kiritsugu shut down the grail for all we know but that's neither here or there.
Don't be stupid, you're not going to get the same person if they're born to a different family, and we know she's still the same Sakura. Tokiomi didn't give Sakura away because of anything to do with the grail war, but rather because he couldn't raise two genius types at the same time, since only one could inheirit the crest, so the other one would go to waste and he didn't want that.
He gave her away so she would become the head of another magus family and her talent which is stated to match Rin's basically won't go to waste. Which is why he gives her away to either the Makiri or Edelfelt family depending on how dead Zouken is per time-line.
Imagine a time-line where Shit is the same as F/SN, but the grail war was shut down and any danger elements like Einzbern family were killed, so everyone manages to live happily. That's basically Prisma. Its not some stupidly different time-line you're imagining where Sakura was born to a different family somehow. She does exist in Ilya-world, we saw her in a bonus chapter.
>>140812922
>They did in the anime,
Wait, what? Are you sure that wasn't a mistake in a sub or something?
>>140812728
Read the scene again
Shirou says he projected in front of Kerry before just like he projected to Rin, he told Rin that Kerry said it was useless and to stop it and focus on strengthening instead, Rin says she would have told him the same thing. She said this right after seeing him trace Kansho and Bakuya, she had not seen him trace anything else at this point. Based on only seeing him trace NPs, she told him she would have told him it was useless and to stop it.
Can you not read between the lines? They both instantly knew this was some heretic shit, and in order for him to not get taught, they mislead him telling him it was worthless and not to do it. Although the situation changes because it was a grail war and Rin needed that power to beat Kuzuki and Medea.
>>140809090
Why did her hair become purple
>>140813470
Anon, she meant that if she was in Kerry's position all those years ago while Shirou was projecting useless shit in his shed, she would have told him the same thing.
>>140813470
>>140813571
I think it could be read both ways (although I personally read it the latter way), but surely Kiritsugu would have noticed that his projections don't fade away and that he was doing something weird.
>>140813571
She didn't know about him tracing useless shit, she knew about him tracing noble phantasms, which she had directly seen.
>>140813545
Pit full of puppies.
>>140813642
We reiterate the previous statement that Kerry was a shit teacher.
>>140813663
Hasn't Rin seen the useless shit in his shed by then? Shirou should have told her if nothing else.
>>140800352
old men
>>140813663
She had also seen his shed full of useless shit.
>>140813642
Usually Projections would last a few days at least. He probably just assumed Shirou was replacing the old useless shit with new useless shit.
He was also kind of a dumbass at times.
>>140805009
>>140805063
Yes, he purposefully said something heartless and cruel as a joking reference to the conversation.
>>140813693
>Hasn't Rin seen the useless shit in his shed by then? Shirou should have told her if nothing else.
She saw it two or three scenes later, and immediately told him that this shit was fucked, and any even slightly decent magus would know that shit was fucked the instant they saw that stuff in the shed
Face it, Kerry knew. Even if he lost his circuits, he wouldn't see that shit in the shed as garbage since its breaking the laws of the world constantly. In all three routes Rin freaked out after seeing it and instantly knew he was a heretic, she wasn't going "Yeah, that's garbage".
Magus know heretic stuff, and one look at it shows that as being heretic stuff.
>>140813682
yeah that's a good image
>>140813775
It's not a question of whether Kerry has circuits but instead his competence as a Magus.
And he was a shit Magus.
>>140813764
>Yes, he purposefully said something heartless and cruel as a joking reference to the conversation.
What? Does it read differently in moon or something because that's not what I got from that conversation at all.
And neither did Hiroyama and most of the fans either, considering all the brown/white pair Shirou art.
>>140813850
"he" in my post refers to >>140804779
>>140813810
>Sakura meets Lancer
>PTSD flashback
