I could see this happening in super because of the whole multiple universes thing
>>140445989
multiple universes doesn't mean pararel universes retard.
>>140446067
What about that pararel freeza named frost?
If you weren't a retard, you'd know that's impossible as it has been explained that universe 6 is the only mirror univ of 7. Therefore there is canonically no way for a ss4 to exist even in another universe.
It was stated by Toriyama Blue is stronger
>>140446437
who cares, it looks gay
Bring magic pants back
>>140446437
Eh Toriyama changes his mind a lot, like how in super there was a big power crunch
>>140447273
I really like how he did that, it put more emphasis on forms. But I'm sure some goku wankers aren't a fan of how current base form goku in super is now weaker than final form freeza(not counting gold)
>>140445989
So which of them is stronger?
>>140447547
All of Frieza's forms were massively powered up, not just Gold. Even his first form was beyond post-Buu Piccolo.
Ha.
I'd bet my money that Toriyama never watched GT.
>>140447638
That was from the movies which still followed under the dbz rules. things have been rewritten now, in super SSJ forms no longer multiply his power but are ways for him to reach higher states of power. So for example base Goku<FF Freeza<ssj Goku and so on with cell, buu and such. The only thing that multiples his power now is kio-ken
>multiple universes
>Gok-Ai
Goku from Dragon Ball Super falls in love with Goku from Dragon Ball Z.
Unable to confess, he is gifted by a deus ex machina with the Saiyan's phone number. Never minding the strange area code, he immediately calls him, and is overjoyed to find out that he has a crush on him as well.
But, the next day, when Super Goku recounts the previous day's confessions to Z Goku, he only looks at him with a perplexed expression. After some investigation, he finds out that the Saiyan he called is not the same Saiyan he fell in love with. In fact, he doesn't exist in this universe at all. He is Kakarrot's alternate universe counterpart, the Goku from GT who has fallen in love with Goku's own AU self, the Goku from Xenoverse, who too is blissfully unaware of his crush.
Hijinks ensue as the two strike up a deal to give each other their darkest, most private secrets in order to equip the other with the weapons they need to conquer the heart of their other selves. While the two chase after reach other, DRAMA ensues as they begin to fall in love with each other instead and question the NATURE of (DRAGON) BALLS.
>>140448230
>base form goku is weaker than final form freeza
>super saiyan isn't a multiplier
You keep on believing that anon
>>140448230
They specifically train in their base form to make SSB stronger.
>>140448527
Well it used to be but it isn't anymore
>>140446067
Don't be so close minded you fool. At this point there really is nothing off limits. Whatever Toriyama wants to make up in these sagas become real.
>>140446067
um beerus and champas universe is the very definition of a parallel universe tho...
>>140448395
FINDS
>>140448395Threadly reminder that you should stop posting that because it's a thing.https://www.fictionpress.com/s/3206139/1/
>>140448395
ALWAYS
>>140448395
Wasn't base Goku on par with FF Frieza? He only had to go Blue on Golden Frieza. Base form didn't cut it against Frost, though.
>>140448395
It's already a meme, so you don't need to post it anymore.
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/keit-ai-finds-a-way/
I was literally just talking to someone about this tonight.
>>140448395
>Keit愛: TVアニメ OST
OP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycfdfinG_P8
ED1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXDNGS9V4Us
ED2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4DyTjrruVo
OP Full: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NShEKYoPXw
ED 1 Full: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIX9aoN7g4o
ED 2 Full: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woiMYzVTl9c
>>140448612
Why is that pig so based?
>>140445989
God, I think I can die happy knowing there came a day where SSJ4 was actually looked more well upon than a canonical SSJ transformation by /a/
>>140449023
yeah the thing is that the movies aren't connected to the new show and follow dbz logic. Super I s a rewriting the movies and the stuff that takes place in them it also changes some stuff. Frost has the same amount of power as Frezia did in the Frezia saga and goku(in his base)has been powered down and now his ssj forms are more nessasary
This was all done for the sake of improving the writing in the show and making it less complicated
>>140448230
Source? So SSJ isn't the insane x50 multiplier it used to be? Also surely they do get stronger when they transform?
>>140448395
WE DID IT REDDIT
>Cabba seeks to become stronger
>Champa offers to train him
>SSJ God from that universe is black
>SSJ God Cabba is just SSJ 4
>Under "clever" brainwashing by Champa, Cabba believes Beerus to be a threat to his universe
>SSJB Goku vs SSJG Cabba
>Cabba wins by an incredible margin, under a corrupted sense of justice
>Vegeta is the hero this time, going further beyond SSJB
>>140449734
Yeah but instead of ssj forms being multipliers there increased states of power. 1 being more powerful than frezia, 2 being more powerful than cell, 3 being slightly weaker than kid buu and so on.
Beerus says that goku in his base form should not have been able to kill frezia, it's not until he goes ssj that he acknowledges Goku could kill frezia
>>140449652
Holy fucking headcanon batman, are you baiting? Frost was insanely powerful
>>140450029
That was in episode 5, that base form goku would be flicked to death by base goku now.
>>140446067
xenoverse allows it and the next arc is gonna bring back future trunks (probably as a time patrol cop like in xenoverse and the other games)
so why not?
>>140450332
Piccolo would have beaten him if he didn't cheat, not to say piccolo is in any way weak but the fact that Goku had to go ssj to match him(although he was holding back for fun) kinda proves that ssg hasn't really effected his base form like in the movies(hence the change)and didn't they say frost was only frezia level maybe even weaker?
>>140450796
piccolo could've beaten him if he didn't go full retard and spend the ENTIRE FIGHT charging an attack he hasn't had to worry about a charge time for since the 2nd half of the saiyan saga.
>>140450796
>and didn't they say frost was only frezia level maybe even weaker?
No, don't be stupid
>>140450029
6/10 you almost had me think you were being serious
>>140445989
lemme brake it down real quick
SSJ = 50x ones base power
SSJ2 = 100x ones base power
SSJ3 = 400x ones base power
ok now on to the tricky part
>Oozaru = 10x ones full power
So here we have some discrepancies, but for humors sake, lets just say its times 10x base
>Golden Oozaru(SSJ x Oozaru) = 500x ones base power
This form also has limitless power while under the full moon
SSJB =greater than SSJ3 by unknown amount.
Given that Vegeta, at his maximum rage, quoted as finally surpassing Goku's strength, was said to be equal to 10% of Beerus' power, this means that Goku's strength (SSJ3) is around 10% of Beerus full power.
SSJG = 60% of Beerus' full power (Araki said on the cosmic scale, Beerus is a 10, SSJG Goku a 6, and Whis a 15.)
So SSJB = around 80% we can assume given that he still isn't around Beerus' full potential yet (and only impressed him fully when using Kaio Ken)
So back to GT, we know that SSJ3 Goku is weaker than Baby Vegeta, who is somewhat of a SSJ3.5 himself.
However, Once Goku turns SSJ4, he is easily capable of trumping him, and even being a stage greater than Golden Oozaru. So its safe to assume he is at least double this seeing how he shrugged off Baby Vegeta's Death Ball with just pure will power.
so SSJ4 is around 800x times ones power.
As I explained earlier, SSJ3 = 10% of Beerus' full power. SSJ4 would be 20%
Now given that Dragon Ball Super only takes place a few months after Z, Goku's base form is relatively the same, he hasn't trained that much more. So the boost he gains from God ritual is MASSIVE.
However, SSJ4 Goku from GT has had 13 more years of training compared to Super's Goku. So while his transformation is only 1/3rd as strong, he would have a WAY more powerful base form, and given that Majin Buu becomes like a fly to him in SSJ4, it shows.
So if we were go by raw stats of the math assuming Goku has had 13 extra years of training. SSJ4 Goku from GT would be stronger.
(TBC next post)
>>140451311
Now there are 3 factors that make or break this:
>1. Can SSJ4 use KaioKen
>2. What is the difference in Strength of Super Goku and GT Goku
>3. What are the power limits on both.
Unlike SSJ1 which can be maintained indefinitely, both SSJ4 and SSJB have been shown to be taxing over time and push their user until they have to de-power. While Goku has maintained SSJ4 for extensive periods of time, SSJB doesn't seem as maintainable, but seems to be more adaptable the more you train with it like SSJ1.
If SSJ4 can kaio ken (which is should, as it is a form based around a calm mind and taming your saiyan feral mind) without a doubt SSJ4 GT Goku would win by the pure output of his boost + more training making for a greater exponential power level.
If not, Super Goku could easily close the gap between him and GT Goku's training years base power via Kaioken, but then it comes down to how long can he maintain it. At the end of the day, Kaioken is the most taxing form on the body par none.
>>140445989
I can't, sadly... cause ya know, it's not canon and all
>>140451311
>>140451509
Gonna save this shit.
>>140451311
Okay, here's what I thought
Oozaru = 10x to base
SS = 50x to base
SS2 = 2x (100x overall)
SS3 = 4x (400x overall)
SS4 = 10x (4000x overall)
SSG/SSGSS/SSB > SS3
SSB+Kaioken x 10 > 4000x
SSG Goku = 6
Beerus = 10
Whis = 15
Beerus is forced to use about 70% of his power to beat SSG Goku.
Beerus is forced to use about 10% of his power to beat SS2 Vegeta.
SS2 Vegeta had surpassed SS3 Goku in strength at that point.
SSG Goku became at least 6 times stronger than SS3 Goku
SSG is apparently all latent Super Saiyan power being drawn, out and it has divine ki. According to Toriyama, SS2 and SS3 are just pushing the Super Saiyan transformation further to try and get more power out of it at the cost of more ki consumption. SSG can only be activated through that ritual.
SSGSS/SSB is the solution to that. It was achieved through training and focuses on manifesting the divine ki of SSG while as a Super Saiyan for easy access. Vegeta trained 6 months longer than Goku because he never achieved SSG through the ritual while Goku's body remembered the feeling of SSG and could naturally manifest some of the power after losing the transformation.
SS4 is a Golden Oozaru in control of itself reverting back to humanoid form, but GT doesn't really fit with the new movies, manga, or Super.
tl;dr Toriyama doesn't put anywhere near this much thought into anything.
>>140445989
different universe is not different timeline.
All this power and they would still lose to the most fabulous men around
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3AtzlFFpoQo
>>140448767
>>140446141
Because universes come in pairs. The universe they've just introduced is the parallel to the one the series takes place in, but the rest are completely unrelated.
And Frost wasn't LITERALLY Frieza, just another member of the same clan/race. It could be assumed that the clan is good in the parallel universe though,given that people believed frost's bullshit.
>>140451897
You're so wrong because it is stated in gt that gokuu already far surpassed majin boo strongest form in his base form and he only playing around his enemy in his base form as stated in gt.
>>140451897
(The following is assuming the person in question is Goku at the end of the Buu sage)
SSJ3 = 1 on Cosmic scale
SSJ4 =2.5 on Cosmic Scale
SSG= 6 on Cosmic Scale
SSB = 8-9 on Cosmic Scale (Still not caught up to Beerus)
Beerus = 10 on Cosmic Scale
Whis = 15 on Cosmic Scale
So given that, SSG is more than double the boost of SSJ4, and SSB is more than triple that. So in terms of forms, SSB and God are better in every way.
However, considering that all of these forms are based on the individuals BASE FORM, SSJ4 Goku from GT still wins, because he has had 13 more years of training than Super's Giku.
Example:
Z's Goku's ending BASE power is say 1000.
Super's Goku would be able go 32,000,000
(SSJ3 is 400x base power, and SSJ3 is 1/8th that of SSJB)
However, GT's has had 13 more years, and assuming he only get 1 time his power per year, GT's Goku's base power would be 13,000.
So factoring that in, his power in SSJ4 would be 52,000,000.
So mathmatically, SSJ4 Goku, from GT, is 1.625 times stronger than SSJB Goku (assuming no Kaioken on either side)
GG, GT wins.
>>140452312
Kudos anon
>>140452312
Nice.
>All this autism
>Coming from a series based on asspulls
I am not surprised.
>>140451311
>Dubs
>Perfection
>Finished math
>>140452312
Masterfully crafted.
>>140451311
>>140451509
>>140451897
>>140452312
Problem with this:
Vegito is, according to guidebook, equal in power to Super Saiyan 4 Goku.
Beerus is leagues stronger than Vegito, to the point where fusion again would not have made a significant difference according to Goku.
Furthermore you're making the assumption that Goku's increasing strength to a significant degree during his training with Uub. But GT itself implies either Super Saiyan or Super Saiyan 2 kid Goku is about on par with Majin Buu (Rildo fight). So Goku is roughly 4-ish times stronger during GT than he was in the fight against Buu. That drops Goku way, way down to only ~4000 instead of the 13000 you're speculating on.
>>140454080
Adding to this, there's never been a direct difference stated on Blue other than it's stronger than God (but not technically completely better; God has regeneration, for example).
Blue could only be 6.5, or even just 6.1. Further recent comments from Toriyama and even Beerus seem to imply that Beerus was lying about how much strength he used, and that even with Super Cyan Kaioken x10, Goku isn't suddenly a 60 on that scale (but he is 10 times stronger than he was in Blue as the episode confirms).
This could be explained by the scale being logarithmic, base 10 or something. Think Earthquake Magnitude.
A 7 on the Richter scale is 10x stronger than a 6.
An 8 is 100x stronger than a 6.
A 9, 1000x stronger than a 6.
A full 10 would be 10,000x stronger than a 6.
So even if Goku in Blue was a 7 instead of a 6.5 or something, Super Cyan Kaioken x10 only brings him up to an 8.
>>140446521
>gay
>furryfag has spoken
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>>140450855
Whoosh
>GG GT wins
Retard. It's not even canon.
>SSJ4 Goku from GT still wins, because he has had 13 more years of training than Super's Giku
You forgot how Pilaf the gang are young children compared to GT's counterpart. That changes everything.
>>140452312
You're missing out on the fact that goku trained with Uub for those years,
And that's it.
In DBS her trained with Whis, basically the most powerful and greatest fighter in the universe. Not only this but her trained for however many years in the time chamber and in some other type of dimension too, so the time adds up.
Also Goku was being throw around like a rag doll by Beerus as ssj3, someone who was also able to take on every Z character (including boo and mystic gohan) with a pair of chopsticks.
Goku stated that he didn't stand a chance against Beerus even if he fused (and the fusion powerful is MASSIVE) hence we have to assume that the god powerup is even bigger than the fusion powerup.
I highly doubt that the ssj4 powerup is bigger than the fusion powerup, and considering who Goku trained with, and for how long, I don't think the fact that GT Goku trained for 13 years makes any difference.
Finally, Goku can now move faster than time and if his punches collide with anything of the same force, it can literally destroy the universe.
GT Goku never achieved this level of power.
>>140454432
10x Kaioken Goku probably is stronger than Beerus, that's a massive powerup and the gap between the two wasn't that huge, if it was then I don't think Beerus would be interested in him.
I'm assuming Beerus isn't TOO fussed because Goku can only maintain it for a short while and theres only a 10% chance it will work.
Also we never know, Beerus has been asleep for ages, now that he's awake, he might be training...
Real question, could SSJ4 goku defeat Hit, himself?He cannot beat Hit.
By the way, the official Powerlevel of Super Saiyan Goku vs Frieza 100% was 1,500,000(Frieza 100% was 1,200,000)
Goku massively improved since then.
Also, SS4Goku in GT was from a Kid Body. Had Goku an adult body is likely he'd feel much less the stress f the transformation.
In fact, I don't remember SS4Vegeta suffering of such a limit.
Post scriptum: V-Jump gave a few power-levels for movie characters:
Cooler's Final Form is 470,000,000
Broly was 1,400,000,000(yes, one BILLION),
Super Gogeta was 2,500,000,000(TWO billions five-hundred millions)
While Super Gogeta makes some sense(normal Vegetto was already not much weaker than Buu) the others are obviously much higher than they should be to make any kind of sense(Broly was strong, but not THOUSAND times stronger than the Z-Warriors).
So I'd ignore V-Jump numbers.
>>140455539
>theres only a 10% chance it will work.
the 10% was for the first try. Now he knows how it works and can use it freely, though it's likely he still has to focus before using it
>>140455539
>x10 kk goku
>stronger than beerus
are you saying that hit is also stronger than beerus/champa?
>>140445989
Super cyan is already stronger, here's my logic
>SS3 is a 400 times multiplier
>ss4 is a 4000 times multiplier
>SS God is stronger than SS3 by a bit at least 5 times based off of vegeta's thing
>SS Cyan is possibly weaker than god, but stronger than 3?
>SS Cyan kaioken is (400*10)X with X being the unknown multiplier from ss cyan.
