I just finished reading the original 42 tankoubon of Dragon Ball, and I must say my favorite parts were the Tenkaichi Budokai (21, 22, 23) and Cell Game being the ultimate best part of the entire work.
Anyone else agree?
Saiyajin and Freeza are also good yes, but Cell Game is elder god tier stuff.
I don't understand how the 22nd Budokai can be one of your favorites. It's just the same as everything that comes later, but worse. It was the first time Toriyama put actual effort into the fights, but he hadn't gotten really good at it yet.
Dragon Ball was great back when it was an Indiana Jones style adventure series with martial arts. As soon as it shifted focus to powerlevels, aliens and beamspamming it went down the shitter.
Can we all agree the 25th Budokai was the worst one yet? Why the fuck did Goku and friends even bother joining when by that point they were much more stupidly overpowered than everyone else?
>>140192109
The Frieza arc is overrated as fuck anyway, easily the most overrated part of the whole franchise.
>>140192109
I wasn't a big fan of Cell's defeat.
>frieza died the first time after a fight with a super saiyan well out of his league
>frieza died the second time from a similar super saiyan with maxed out STR
>Buu died thanks to the combined might of every single living thing on Earth
>Cell died at full strength, beyond his previous limit, because daddy believed in gohan
It just didn't feel right.
>>140194816
Frieza died from his own attack due to being retarded. Then he begged for forgiveness from Goku, who like the moralfag manchild gave it to him and in doing so broke his promise to the dying Vegeta, only to predictably turn on Goku because he's so one-dimensionally eeeeeeeeeeviiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiil.
>>140195557
No, you can clearly see that Goku was more than capable of beating Frieza, but his big dumb Saiyan heart that puts lives at risk for "muh full power" let Frieza get one last beam in. Even at 100%, he could only manage to just barely match his power.
>>140194524
This.
>>140195750
What do you mean? He had already beaten Frieza at that point, and he just let him go instead of finishing the job. Did he really expect Frieza to just learn from his mistakes after having his pride shattered by being beaten into submission by a monkey?
>>140195557
>like the moralfag manchild
Dumb dubfag spotted.
>>140195882
I guess. What I'm trying to say is that Frieza and Buu were clearly beaten after losing their power ups, while Cell came back in his Perfect form even stronger than before due to his Zenkai ability. The Father-Son Kamehameha just feels like it makes no sense, which says a lot considering the series.
>>140196107
>implying nostalgia isn't literally the only reason to ever watch DBZ
But I'll bite, what's the reason he let Frieza live in the Jap version?
>>140196230
In Buu's case he was even more dangerous due to being completely unhinged. He was also strong enough to push back the spirit bomb/genki dama.
So no one is going to comment on how OP's pic is from one of the greatest DBZ games of all time? Aight
And let's be real we can argue over which ark was the best, but Piccolo learning to drive a car was the greatest episode of all time
>>140196348
>what's the reason he let Frieza live in the Jap version
Pity
Goku was literally upset he was the strongest ever. It's lonely at the top.
>>140196799
And that was worth letting the guy who destroys homes and kills children for shits and giggles live?
>>140197231
For Goku it is.
>>140197372
He might come back stronger and give him a challenge. This is literally Goku's thought process on the matter.
>>140197231
I suppose Goku was counting on Frieza to fear him. Knowing that if Frieza acted up again, he would be there to stop him.
But of course it happened sooner rather than later and Frieza tried to blast him.
Just my interpretation of character and motivation
>>140197886
Plus, it lets him get stronger fighting Frieza without having to learn any new techniques.
>>140192109
What made the Cell Games your favorite part of the story?
>>140197558
>>140197886
That's even worse than being a moralfag, he's a selfish manbaby who only cares about fighting and food.
>>140194524
>>140195849
What didn't you guys like about the Namek arc?
>>140198462
Planet Namek is the most boring locale ever, everywhere you look it's the same blue grass and trees, and green sky. Most of it is spent watching Vegeta carry the show being the clever badass he is while Krillin and Gohan scurry around helplessly and do fuck all while waiting for Goku to arrive and save the day as usual. The actual fight with Freeza is boring and interminable as fuck, and drags on for far too long even in the manga. Freeza himself is the most bland and generic "I'M THE BIG BAD AND I MUST DO BAD THINGS BECAUSE I'M THE BIG BAD LOOK AT ME TWIRL MY MUSTACHE AS I KILL MY OWN HENCHMEN GWEE HEE HEE" villain I've ever seen, with none of the comic relief of the previous villains, never understood why he was so popular.
I miss the Indiana Jones style adventure of the original Dragon Ball.
>>140198428
Yeah? That's Goku.
I see where he's coming from, though. Like "be good, frieza. You were evil before cause no one could stop you, but daddy's home now"
Only problem is Frieza went full /r9k/ on Goku and sent one last REEEE
>>140192109
But what about Super?
>>140198601
Read the manga, bro. Frieza fight isn't long at all. Filler is a bitch.
Your other points are valid, but Vegeta's guerilla warfare was more than enough to carry the arc.
Also I love the sheer danger everyone is in at all times. The stakes are no longer that high. An example:
Vegeta steals the Dragonballs from Frieza. Frieza is furious and just starts firing beams out across Namek's landscape AT RANDOM. Any number of those could have blown up Bulma who was in random caves.
The tension was palpable.
>>140192109
Cell is one of my favorite villains, but the Cell Games lack the kind of intensity and feel of hopelessness that you can find on the Namek Saga. It is not as exciting, the fights are good though.
>>140198428
Don't reply to this kind of people. They are dub secondaries who go on about how bad Dragon Ball is and can't even understand such a simple series.
>>140198793
Yeah it was pretty risky, and I liked the Ginyu Force but that's about it. It just felt very weak compared to any of the previous arcs.
>>140198929
The Cell saga always felt like people were too obsessed with full strength. Cell giving everyone ten days to get stronger, Vegeta letting Cell become his perfect form, Goku waiting a few years just to let Gero make the Androids, it just felt a bit dumb. Sure, Trunks got to defeat the Androids thanks to his training, but you can clearly tell how unplanned lots of stuff was.
>>140196631
Was that game ever in English? I remember the NA version was cancelled.
>>140199223
Cell didn't have any goals beyond getting strong. If he wasn't such a dick, he could've been an interesting addition to Goku's friends.
>>140199223
>The Cell saga always felt like people were too obsessed with full strength.
Duh, that was the point. It was about perfection and the pursuit of it.
>>140199334
Would a manga featuring someone with the abilities of Cell as the protagonist be good?
>>140199899
it's called Bleach. whether it's good or not, idunno.
>>140198601
agree with the locale. but freezer had plenty of comedic moments. and as for him being a super gentlemen villain, that was pretty new (or at least wasnt so common back when he was introduced...35 years ago).
brb, crying.
>>140198601
b-but evolving boss just like my video games
>"it isn't my final form" meme
>>140198673
It's shit. Don't bothe rreading it. It feel to rush
>le gods/creators/supreme being
>le tournament
>le random fightan
>>140192109
Wait, the DBZ SNES game is translated ?
The one where you use up up down down trick to summon Kakarotto as secret character ?
>>140198673
The manga is too short and the anime has shit animation
>>140202496
it's quite coherent for a "TL;DR" version of the story.
The best would be making a weekly manga that's quality by Toyotaro that gets reproduced into quality anime adaptation.
>>140192331
Goku vs Krilin and Goku vs Ten Shin Han are amazing, memorable fights, plus funny stuff like Krilin vs Chaos
I just liked all the tenkaichis, too bad the 35 one was interrupted.
>>140196631
Yup, Super Butoden 2 represent, my favorite DBZ game ever.
>>140199310
>>140202380
I actually don't know where that screenshot came from, I have the game in japanese. But yes there was going to be an english version released but got cancelled. Maybe there's an english fan translation out there.
>>140198391
Perfect Cell
>>140203180
Haven't been reading the manga. As the source material, is it full of crap comedy, extremely bullshit reasoning that explains how one person beats another, retcons, and otherwise other pulp and fluff that fills up 98% of this cash cow series outside of action and rare reasonable/hype plot?
The way I see it and have yet to be convinced otherwise, Toriyama felt tired of being irrelevant for so long and spent his last million on hookers, so he tried being original again by making another sci-fi oneshot called "Jaco the Galactic Patrolman". He saw that his art style outside of DragonBall became outdated, and that people didn't care enough, so he tried connecting Jaco to DB. Then, seeing that the only thing he'll be remembered for after he dies is DB, he decided to make his hooker money the only way he knew how.
So he proceeded to pull so much shit out of his ass by barely drawing by himself and swore never to think of the plot outside of the 20 minutes a day he spends taking his shits. Is Toriyama becoming handicap or something? I'm not being sour on this one, I'm legitimately asking why he is not drawing a manga that makes him bank like he used to. Why is someone else being credited for what's apparently his creation? Did Toriyama ever say that he enjoyed the simpler, comedic, original Dragonball over the action heavy, more thematic, and more successful Dragonball Z era of Dragonball?
And is Dragonball Super a hit in Japan? Outside of forums and the such, everyone I met who loved DB or DBZ hates Super.
>>140204618
I'm pretty sure people likes Dr. Slump.
>>140204690
Yeah but that's not his blue-ribbon winning prized cash cow.
>>140203180
What does that scribble on Vegeta's chest plate supposed to represent?
>>140204618
From what little I've seen of Super (only the movies) I like it much more than DBZ, because it doesn't take itself so seriously and tries to recapture the humor from the original DB.
Power levels are really kind of bullshit.
Gohan in particular during the cell Saga made no sense.
At first he was just a bit stronger then Krillin.
Then he went into the hyperbolic time chamber and came out stronger than Goku.
Then he fights cell and is suddenly on a completely different level from everyone else.
Gohan was fucking 11 years old.
GOKU WAS OLDER THAN THAT AT THE START OF DRAGONBALL.
>>140204618
Toriyama himself knows he can't draw like he used too and it'd look off if he did it. All he does is character designs and the script that both manga and anime use. The manga is just an ad for the anime anyway.
And also Toriyama only came back to DB because Toei were gonna try to milk it without him once again and if it's gonna be milked to death Toriyama might as well write it himself since he's still sad about DB Evolution. And who the fuck watches or reads DB for the plot, it always has been shit.
you make me want to read it again. anyone ever play the video games for gba? i tried playing it one time to read the story and play along, but i got lazy and just read it.
>>140205330
And lets not forget him being 3 times as powerful as Goku despite barely being able to form a full sentence and never having formed a fist in his life.
>>140205330
>>140205449
Gohan is the ultimate mary sue.
>>140205449
Or the fact that it took him 2 weeks (2 FUCKING WEEKS) to go from barely as strong as a Saibaman to beating the shit out of Frieza in his final form and forcing him to use 100% of his power.
>>140205330
The Saiyan and Namek saga made a point that powerlevels are bullshit and don't matter. Just ignore it.
>>140205345
>The manga is just an ad for the anime anyway
not anymore it isn't.
The interview revealed that now the animators of the anime are now referencing Toyotaro's work, and that even Toriyama wouldn't mind Toyotaro writing in his own plot into the story.
That and the fact Toriyama himself reviews and oversees the manga adaptation, it's more than just an "ad" at this point.
>>140192109
>tankoubon
>Tenkaichi Budokai
sounds so fucking weeb
>>140192109
Holy shit I played this game religiously 2 decades ago in SNES, fucking nostalgic
>>140205911
nigga what board are you on
>>140205449
>And lets not forget him being 3 times as powerful as Goku despite barely being able to form a full sentence
One of Gohan's first lines is telling Bulma that he wants to be a scholar.
>>140198929
vegeta is a faggot but I always liked that savage style of fighting, except for his little ball shower that does 0damage.
>>140204976
It's Whis's symbol, he drew it on the clothes of Goku and Vegeta without them even noticing to prove a point that even with SSGSS he is still stronger and faster by a large margin.
That and to show that he is training him like how Goku's old gi had Roshi's symbol as well as King Kai's
>>140192109
Cell Game is easily one of the most putrid parts of the whole manga.
>>140205736
>>140205449
>>140204976
Let's not forget the Gohan of Buu Saga, Super, and even GT. Gohan went from 100 to 0 in record time.
>>140205945
trash- I mean /a/? but still these 2 words sounds so fucking nerd.
>>140205911
happy 9/11 faggots.
>>140206008
It was great and contrasted with Goku's straightforward style with clever tricks when you least expect them, and Piccolo's tactical positioning style.
>>140206086
>normal vocabulary
>nerd
DBZ nigger spotted
>>140206041
Why's that?
>>140194816
>>frieza died the first time after a fight with a super saiyan well out of his league
>>frieza died the second time from a similar super saiyan with maxed out STR
>>Buu died thanks to the combined might of every single living thing on Earth
>>Cell died at full strength, beyond his previous limit, because daddy believed in gohan
Actually it's not supposed to feel right.
Original plot of Z was to show Gohan's growth. Goku's death was supposed to be permanent and Gohan was supposed to beat Buu.
Why did it change? Because fucking editors.
>>140206825
Even thought it was the editors that kept telling Toriyama to add new foes because they didn't like the current ones?
>>140205736
It's a anime filler
>>140205736
>canonically the character who would be the strongest if he got his shit together
>jobs in saiyan arc
>jobs in frieza arc
>gets his dad killed in cell arc
>welp the strongest person on the planet is dead
>better stop training
>jobs in buu arc
yeah, what a badass
>>140206050
What about SUPER?
>>140207056
what ABOUT super?
>>140205911
OP here, I admit the use of tankoubon was bit weeb on my part, but I didn't think it'd trigger anyone around here.
Now, Tenkaichi Budokai, nigga that's entry level DB vocabulary, fuck off.
the original manga at this point is not even related to DBZ
the original is a masterpiece that deserves to not be read by the filthy american gajins
and Tenshinhan is more powerful than Krillin
>>140207284
Does it do anything for Gohan or is he barely in it like a background character that talks about how powerful and awesome Goku is?
>>140207409
The original manga is both DB and DBZ.
>>140207379
You did nothing wrong
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/tankobon/
>>140207428
Up to now, he realized he wants to start training again, to protect his family etc etc.
I don't remember for what reason he didn't participe on the champa tournament, but he will start training with Piccolo again afterwards.
>>140207447
we can argue about the quality of the saiyan and frieza saga but after that toriyama dropped the ball
>>140203930
Ok, I admit Goku vs Krillin and Goku vs Tenshinhan are pretty good. But have you considered literally every fight that comes after them?
>>140207483
Cell saga is arguably the best or better than Freeza.
>>140207483
Toriyama dropped the ball when he stopped ripping off Journey to the West and started ripping off Superman instead.
>>140207536
long
boring
unispired
(the only good parts are the from future gohan)
>>140207428
Does this help any? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJHFYce3lEA
He powers up and faints because he's too strong for his weak body to handle. Now he wants to train after the Freiza stuff because he realized how far he's jobbed.
In other words he's shit, and with Vegeta as the new Vice President main character, Gohan will never reach their level. Even if he does, he'll fight unimportant people and probably lose somewhere along the line.
>>140206825
we couldve gone jojo and be with gohans grandson as the protagonist now :c
>>140207578
If you thought the Android Saga was boring then I don't think Dragon Ball is for you.
>>140205330
>>140205449
Isn't Mystic "If I go super saiyan I will blow up the planet" Gohan the strongest person canonically in all of DBZ?
>>140207661
when THE FUCK did he say that?
>>140207649
I agree DBZ is for niggers
>>140207661
You're forgetting someone, mate.
Koyama:
Well, at first, we were talking about whether we could do that for a theatrical movie.
Morishita:
Whether we could do something in the form of Goku vs. Goku’s father.
Koyama:
However, without resorting to time travel or some-such, he wouldn’t be able to fight against Goku… And before long, the conversation shifted to, “In that case, perhaps it would be all right to have a story depicting Goku’s father.”
Toriyama:
That special was good. I cried. How come you can make a story so much better than the original manga? (laughs)
Koyama:
But after that, you made use of the setting from that time in the original manga, and I was truly grateful.
Toriyama:
Well, that’s because I wanted to use it, no matter what…
Muscle Mass is so strange in DB. Dr Breifs said that at 300x gravity, Vegeta would be 18T, which places him at 60KG.
>>140207536
>Cell saga
Strong beginning, passable middle, terrible end.
>>140207826
Not quiet true
Strong beginning, terrible middle, passable ending
That being said, Save the World is my favorite episode
>>140207850
>passable ending
You can't do worse than Cell Game. It's a budokai only in name that fails at absolutely everything but Satan being a great comedy relief.
>>140207908
Are you saying the Goku vs Cell fight was terrible? Even if the Gohan fight was shit
>>140205330
You're forgetting the three year gap, in which Gohan would have grown hugely stronger than Krillin
>>140207908
It's not a budokai, it's called Cell Game.
And I don't think you can say one of the best battles in the entire work fails at everything.
Also, are you people talking about TV or manga here? I'm talking manga.
>>140207908
But what about Goku vs Cell?
>>140207970
>>140207969
>>140207937
Top QUALITY fight
>>140208162
You should be looking at the manga version instead...
>>140207409
>>140207447
Why the fuck do westerners like to separate DB and DBZ?
People in the east grew up knowing both are the same thing under the Dragon Ball banner
>>140208162
>Also, are you people talking about TV or manga here? I'm talking manga.
>replies with TV screenshot
good job
>>140208228
Because people in the west grew up with them separated
>friend says that he wants to see DBZ fully after seeing bits and bops over the years
>he decides to watch only Z, original english dub and filler
I tried to reason with him. I really tried. At first I tried to make him watch Kai, he didn't want to. I recommended original japanese version, he didn't want to. I told him to at least skip the filler, he didn't want to.He gave up during final Freeza-fight because he thought it was way shittier than he remembered
>>140208345
Kai is shit, the voices are horrible the the cutting of the fights is awful
Japanese and Filler skipped are the ways to go
>>140208345
Well it's his own damn fault, there's nothing you can do about it.He is right about it being way shittier without nostalgia goggles though.
>>140208373
Wonder if Kei will release the stereo tapes with better audio
>>140208373
>>140208345
Am I the only one who likes the early DBZ Gohan filler?
Also the episodes where Goku dances tango with the snake queen and when he falls to hell.
I didn't like the editing on Kai and there were a lot of music cut from the original, music feels a lot more repetitive and not as well placed on Kai.
Anyway if you don't like the macaroni western-type "we exchanges face expressions for half an hour" DBZ fights go for the manga, everything is as fast paced as you can read, there's no extra animation minutes.
>>140208345
your friend watched around 107 episodes of DBZ then decided it wasn't as good as he thought it was?
>>140208472
Too bad its hard as fuck to find good scans
>>140208517
https://bakabt.me/details.php?id=173878&page=1
That wasn't so hard
>>140208586
>average rating less than 9
>>140207379
I grew out of db so long ago.
I didn´t think people took that shit seriously.
>>140207817
Toriyama is easily the most bro-tier master-class artist.
Dat humility
>>140208689
Serious as a Super Saiyajin heart disease
>>140208689
Yet you're here.
>>140208689
There's an entire website where people take DB very seriously.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/newbie/
>>140207937
>>140207970
>Goku vs Cell
Fat lot of nothing.
>>140207969
>And I don't think you can say one of the best battles in the entire work fails at everything
Satan Vs Cell? I already said that it failed at everything but Satan.
DBS is a mistake. Moreover, Toei should be sued.
>>140192109
>>140192109
best part was late Dragonball (so piccolo junior vs goku) and saiyan saga.
best arcs are the initial journey to the west inspired arc, the 22nd tournament and namek
worst arc is king piccolo, boring ass arc that rides off the momentum of the tournament before quickly halting and becoming predictable and redundant
adding to that what makes it better than the other tournaments is character development, specifically tenshinhan, and is also where the anime's budget picked up and what I feel like was the perfect tone with a proper balance of action, drama and comedy
