I think we can all, unironically, calmly, and reasonably agree that the Zero anime has been the absolute height of the franchise so far.
>>139953493
Fate/Apocrypha
Fate/Strange Fake
Prisma Illya 3rei
Or, the best part of the series, just read the fucking VN
Fate/Zero is great, but Zero fags need to fuck off.
>>139953493
Fate sucks and not even Zero could save it
Prisma Illya is alright just started it a few days ago
I'm gonna bite the Bait.
F/SN and F/Z is is not even the best Fate series any more its already been surpassed by Fate/strange Fake.
No surprise since Narita is a better writer than Nasu and Urobutcher. Strange Fake would explode into popularity like Zero did once its turned into an anime.
>>139956379
>Whenever Strange Fake gets an adaptation some people will say it's the best entry point into the series
>>139956197
Apocrypha sucks and the ending ruined the whole thing. It went from 6.5/10 to 4/10 after the ending.
Fate/strange Fake is the next big thing for sure. I like how it focus on all servants/masters just like Fate/zero and America makes a interesting setting for a chance.
>>139956585
I agree the ending was shit, but the only reason anyone hates on the rest of the series was because it had a trap and a half-naked loli.
>>139956197
>just read the fucking VN
I did and it sucked
After Ufo HF comes out, there will be almost zero reason to ever read the VN
>>139957744
>>139957804
The jpg was for the pun. Beyond that I'm completely serious. The VN was fucking terrible. It took me almost three years to drag myself through all of it.
Have you not heard the good news of Sakura?
>>139957908
>Doesn't like reading
>Assumes everything is better just because it's animated
>Ignores how much character development is lost in the anime
>Ignores how shit Shirou is in the anime
>Ignores an entire route ufotable would need to adapt
Every fucking day we have this same exact fucking thread fuck you /a/
>>139956674
No, people hate on Apocrypha because Jeanne is one of the most uninteresting heroines in all of light noveldom, the romance between her and Sieg is forced, cringe-inducing, and trashy as fuck, all the best servants get zero screentime, and because the prose itself is bland.
>>139953493
What're you on about anon? Zero was shit trash. Outside of Waver/Rider virtually the entire cast were either forgetable or unlikeable. It was also a prequel which meant is was entirely pointless because nothing new would be brought up or changed.
>>139957908
The VN is engaging as fuck, except for some earlier parts when they just go to school/cook. Yes, the H scenes are laughable, and Shirou can be a dumbass, but the story is a thrill ride that the anime adaptations can never quite capture.
>>139958063
>Ignores how shit Shirou is in the anime
Seemed pretty much the same in the VN and the anime to me senpai. I wasn't expecting much when I watched the anime. A good character on paper, hard to portray. He was crappy in the VN, and he was crappy in the anime.
>>139958990
>the story is a thrill ride
If you're 13 and can not notice Nasu's contrived and endless plot devices, maybe
>>139959772
There is a legitimate reason behind every plot point in the VN. Maybe not in the anime adaptations, or the countless spinoffs (how the fuck was Francis Drake a woman, Drake isn't some ancient legend with fuzzy details like King Arthur). However the VN is great.
>>139953493
>implying the height of the franchise won't be the Heaven's Feel movies
>>139953493
Speak for yourself, Zero was a mediocre adaptation in terms of character development.
Oh boy, is this another bait thread by some retarded anime secondary or zero babby? Looks like the latter.
>>139959977
>There is a legitimate reason behind every plot point in the VN.
Jesus christ anon. Come on. The VN isn't that bad, but holy shit that is not true.
>>139960049
Incorrect sir. I am the former.
I admit I may have enjoyed the VN much more if Zero and /a/ had not spoiled me on absolutely every single plotpoint beforehand. Thou hath wrought mine threads upon thyselves.
>>139960014
We will see. I have a hard time imagining, just on the base material, that it will be able to match Zero. But I expect it will surpass the (relative) mediocrity of UBW
>>139960494
So you read it then? I had quite a bit of it spoiled myself before I read it for the first time, but I had an absolute blast going through, really enjoyed it. Honestly thought everything about it was great, from characters to interactions to fight scenes, I even liked the h-scenes.
>>139960553
Did you read the vn or not? What the fuck is this boner people who haven't played the vn have for zero? Holy shit, it's literally just fights from the vn, but none of the character interactions beyond that.
>>139960553
It's like this:
Heaven's Feel > Zero > UBW >= Fate
>>139960745
>So you read it then?
I did.
>I even liked the h-scenes.
With all due respect, sir, you taste must be abominable. The awkward, out of character porn scenes almost ruined the story for me. I probably would have dropped it altogether if not for its undeserved reputation on /a/. I even stopped reading them entirely after the rape scene in UBW.
>What the fuck is this boner people who haven't played the vn have for zero? Holy shit, it's literally just fights from the vn, but none of the character interactions beyond that.
What?
Shirou/Archer's development in UBW and Saber/Shirou's development in Fate are the only aspects of CD that can even be argued to hold a candle to most of the cast from Zero. And that's a maybe, assuming they are done well. And I'm sure we can agree watching Shirou in UBW was not as exciting or interesting as Kerry in Zero.
>>139961241
Not that guy, but jesus. If there's one thing flawed about Zero, it was the cast. Almost all of them were either shallow or retreads of themes/development from the VN, not helped by the fact it tried balance screentime between them.
>>139960553
Surpassing UBW isn't hard, Fate is better if it got the tweaks UBW got and still sucked (adding GoA stuff would make it great).
>>139961241
The scenes are literally minutes each, of a story that is multiple 10's of hours long. I'm not saying they were the hottest things ever, but they developed the relationships in ways that can't be substituted, I honestly liked them. Didn't seem out of character to me at all. Stuff like Shiro and Saber's second scene especially, really helped show their relationship.
As for the characters, I would argue it's more exciting/interesting in the vn, at least for me. This is a story about a boy honestly figuring himself out, what he stands for, and what he thinks the world should be like, set across the backdrop of the grail war. So I prefer seeing how he grows and changes, as well as how he changes those around him. Zero just seems to me to be something thrown together to show of cool, flashy shit. Which is fine, some people only want that, but then the same people sit there shit-talking the vn for having stuff beyond it.
At the very least, you've at least read the vn, which is more than what 99% of people bitching about it have done. If you prefer other things it it, that's fine, it's the mouth-breathing retards who never bothered even reading it and just watched the anime, or almost as bad, read that shitty realta nua version, and then blow zero as gods gift to man that are the worst.
>>139961488
>If there's one thing flawed about Zero, it was the (team) cast(er).
Kerry > Shirou
Zero Kirei >= HF Kirei
Zero Gil > FSN Gil
Fate Arturia > Zero Arturia
There's just no comparison, really. On a development level, most of the characters in FSN, outside a sparse few (Shirou, Archer, Arturia, and that's about it) are equivalent to team caster in Zero. Insipid, juvenile tedium. Sakura, for example, was boring as hell. >muh pain >muh victimization
>>139961488
That's your opinion, I like Fate Zero cast much more than most of FSN cast bar Kotomine, Saber and Ilya, and Kotomine and Saber are in Fate/Zero.
Not that anon either. I read the VN years ago and I thought it was shit and I wouldn't have taken a single glance back at Fate franchise if wasn't for Zero anime. Now I own the ln, and I'm following Fragments and Strange Fake that are decent, specially the last one. Blows the fuck out FSN. Tried FHA but the sol parts are completely unreadable.
>>139961718
>Stuff like Shiro and Saber's second scene especially, really helped show their relationship.
Some Shirou/Saber h scenes were tolerable. But even then, they were hard to stomach because Shirou, at heart, seems to be a sadistic pedophile in many of the scenes. Rather disgusting and out of character. If I wanted shit like that I'd visit the panda.
>>139961855
Realta Nua Fate route is better than the eroge shit of the pc version. Go and read them. They are actually romantic instead of something out of character. Sadly /a/ thinks shitty doujin tier hentai scenes are 'mature'.
>>139961488
I actually agree with you, I generally thought the characters and their conflicts weren't interesting enough to make up for the total lack of intrigue in the story. Zero also only halfway delivered on the Battle Royale concept of Holy Grail War. Often the plot meandered without any meaningful resolution, especially in the first cour. Rider is probably my favorite Fate character though and there's a couple great scenes so I'll give it that.
>>139961931
Fate 1st: Both ero and non-ero are really stupid, though Saber's behavior in subsequent days make less sense in non-ero.
Fate 2nd: Both are good
UBW: ero sucks, non-ero is silly but overall superior.
HF Rider: Both are pointless
HF Sakura: Ero scenes are silly but makes far more sense in the context of HF's story and the replacements are awful. Stick to lewd here.
>>139961855
Where the fuck do you get sadistic pedophile from? Some people may not like the writing, I can at least get that, but I don't know what the fuck you were reading if that's what you took away from it. He honestly could have used some loli, we could have gotten an llya route then.
>>139961931
Realta Nua is a steaming pile of shit, that's basically all there is to say about it. Fucking dolphins, dragons, and vampires? No one said that having sex scenes was mature, but acting like people having sex is some "icky" shit, and preferring the contrived bullshit they use in rn to explain it instead is what's immature. They're plenty romantic in the original version, nothing out of character.
>>139962255
>muh vampires, dragons and dolphins meme
You never read Realta Nua, didn't you? Fuck off.
>>139962255
The sex scenes were contrived bullshit retard.
>>139962215
>though Saber's behavior in subsequent days make less sense in non-ero.
She was raped in the ero part. She would have killed Rin and Shirou, actually. While in the non ero part, Shirou soulbounded with her and saw her exposed completely in a fully consensual way.
>>139961855
Rumor has it Takeuchi wrote those scenes and he has a clear rape fetish.
>>139962473
Are you asking if I re-read the entire vn to see the relevant changes? No, I didn't. Have I seen the rn scenes though, yes, and they're shit.
>>139962520
Were they strictly necessary for inclusion? No, but they were included, and made sense, both as character development, and from the countless myths and legends that preceded that used sex as part of magical ceremonies and the occult.
>>139962643
Lol, raped? If by that you mean she understood they were all about to die, and that there was a convenient method available that would not only save her, but her master and his friend as well, to which she specifically consented, then sure, she was raped.
>>139962215
I disagree about Saber's behavior not making sense in the ero part. Saber had sex with Rin too, and she wasn't 'awkward'. It was also a thing of need to get this down in a very dubcon way. While the nonero scene was Shirou declaring he accepts her fully and bonds with her at soul-level, uncaring if she's going to kill her (with her dragon flashing out to keep him away), and they shared a tender moment of actual bonding and understanding while Rin got BTFO and fried away from them.
The non ero scenes in Fate route are far more meaningful and better characterized than "I know how to please men, Shirou." I give you HF, and UBW they are both bad, but Fate route is far better without those ero scenes because the replacement are actually about Shirou's and Saber's romance. Take for instance the last one, in the ero scene, it was still about prana replenish while in the non ero one it wasn't. It was about Saber and Shirou wanting to spend the night together.
>>139962873
I don't think you have read them. You only have seen the cgis and think the DEEN adaptation covered them. Fuck off non canon-supporter secondary.
>>139962964
*non ero part
*kill him
Sorry.
>>139962873
Not that guy, but I think you speak of ignorance about RN fate route specifically. You certainly haven't read the scenes if you claim the h version were better characterized or actually made sense in their relationship.
While it wasn't outright rape, the threesome scene was dubcon. It wasn't romantic, it was erotized for fat neckbeards and Saber was pretty unwilling in the beginning, so I can see why people think she was raped. While in the non ero scene, it was fully consensual and was about Shirou getting closer to Saber, breaking her barriers not by force, but by his own sacrifice. It was about accepting her as a person which got her guard down around him.
>>139961931
>Realta Nua Fate route is better than the eroge shit of the pc version.
Dear god, I read RN
>>139962787
So I've heard. I do not disbelieve it.
>>139963024
Think what you want. I don't think you've read the ero scenes. You've only seen meme images and think they fully cover them. I can do it too, see?
Also, while Nasu tends to be a bit bipolar on the subject, he has said on record he intended for the h-scenes to be in the product, as it was a mature work intended for adults, and he tried his best to do them well.
>>139962964
Not sure what "dubcon" means, though I can make a few guesses. As for the h-scenes not being as meaningful, not sure how you got that. Specifically regarding the 2nd one, yes, it was for mana, but they actually loved and cared for each other, as seen by the scene. Not much more you can do to advance a relationship then have sex, it changes things in ways nothing else can, it fully showed how much they loved each other, they way it played out, as opposed to the first, which was done out of necessity.
>>139963252
I'm going to assume you're >>139962964, by your use of "dubcon" again. That's I'm assuming dubious consent or something? If you look at it from that angle, then Saber raped Shiro, since he was also unwilling to do it at first, but like I said, it was to save their lives, so they both did what needed to be done. That clearly changed by the second scene, where they are explicitly shown to deeply care for each other. In that way, it clearly makes sense in the progression of the relationship.
Look, clearly you guys don't like the h-scenes for whatever reason, I'm not seeing the reasoning at all, but I'm not likely to change your mind. I honestly liked the h-scenes, and to me, that is and always will be the canon version. But to each his own.
>>139963252
>Saber was pretty unwilling in the beginning, so I can see why people think she was raped
It was the sadism that popped up in Shirou's internal dialogue in the second and/or third scenes. It was years ago that I read Fate, but IIRC, stuff about his struggling with "bestial urges" where he wanted to "rip apart her tiny, helpless body," and where, instead, he cums on her face. Shit of that nature.
In UBW shirou outright does exactly that to Rin, makes her cry, and then the plot just plods on like it didn't happen, and like it doesn't outright contradict everything Shirou's character is supposed to be about.
Finally, back to the good old type-in-the-numbers captcha.
>>139961855
>sadistic pedophile
??????
>>139962255
I agree with everything uve said so far. fyi there is a realta nua with optional sex scenes
>>139962520
you are the immature prude here
>>139964104
>>139962255
>sadistic pedophile
See >>139963834
You might be able to argue the pedophile interpretation, but not Shirou's sadism, which is by far the more abominable offense.
>>139964202
yes shirou is a warped character. he literally has no concept of self afterall.
shirou isnt a lolicon he just wants to protect his imouto like berserker.
>MUH DAUGHTERU
In HF, the 9 lives blade works scene ends with berserker entrusting illya to shirou
let's be real here illya is daughteru material and best girl. protect/10illya pls crush my bones[spoiler/]
>>139964104
>>139964202
Perhaps the dialogue could have been more clear, but those "bestial urges", etc. were just him saying he really wanted to fuck them.
As for the Rin scene, that was probably one of the most realistic h-scenes I've ever read. These are 2 virgins, and instead of being super experienced h-protagonists, they go at it like 2 virgins. Rin is too shy for foreplay, and so Shiro goes in basically dry. And instead of instantly begging for the cock and cumming non-stop, it actually hurts, and she wants Shiro to slow down a bit. And Shiro, instead of being some sex god his first time, he's inexperienced and just starts thrusting away, and gets carried away while having sex. Afterwards, he realizes he got carried away, and apologizes, and she accepts, tells him to better next time, etc. Nothing sadistic about it. Any absolutely nowhere is there anything even tangentially related to "pedophiles", again, I don't know where you get that from.
>>139964104
Yeah, I did play a version once with the bonus voices and content from rn included, but all the h-scenes left intact.
>ITT: Fate/Kids
lol
I was really surprised by all the positive comments toward Zero after watching it. God, this shit was incredibly disapointing.
First, the two openings were hot garbage.
Both Assassin and Caster were completely wasted. At least FSN focused a little bit on every servants thanks to the three route system, but in Zero those two were useless as fuck, second could pretty much have been removed.
Same for Alexander. Fucker barely does anything besides beating in seconds Assassin and being beaten in seconds by Gil. The fight against the latter was the "best thing everm? For fucking real? More like it has the potential but was completely wasted.
Lancer was just an annoying and pathetic version of Cu.
And Kiritsugu. This fucker. I can't stand characters acting edgy for retarded reasons.
>>139962873
>Lol
Hang yourself.
>>139953493
Kys.
>>139963739
Yes, I'm that guy, and it's dubious consent which made the 'romance' a little hypocritical considering it began like that. In light of Gilgamesh, a blatant rapist, who was saying women would enjoy being taken against their wills for his basis of romance, considering the threesome scene, it's not that far from what happened. Not speaking of Shirou, but also Rin. I'm not against sex or anything but those scenes didn't really fit the romance of Shirou and Saber, if Nasu had written a sex scene based of what happened in second RN scene, I would be fine because they were together because they wanted, there was no coercion, there was no ridiculous lines and dialogue that came out of a cheap porn that didn't fit neither Shirou or Saber. How could Saber rape Shirou when she was being held down by Rin and Shirou took the initiative? Saber didn't even touch him.
I agree second scene is better, but the dialogue is kind of silly and the reason why they were together lacks the obvious tenderness of the non sex scene. As I stated earlier, if Nasu would have added sex after Saber and Shirou start to sleep in the same futon, it would have been more organic and natural and far more satisfying than any of his mediocre sex scenes.
>>139966823
People like zero for stupid superficial reason.
Don't get me wrong, I like Zero, but I think it's overated. I don't consider it to be nearly as good as Fate. I like Kerry but compared to Shirou's character arcs? He's way inferior. I like Alexander, and I guess I liked Saber in Zero? I think the main reason people like Zero it's because of how ''edgy'' and how ''The masters are adults! So that makes them better''.
>>139966018
>berserker entrusting illya to shirouStupid Berserkah!
>>139963834
This is my problem with the scenes. It wasn't the characters having sex, but the characters replaced by out of character hentai doujin stock personas having sex and I'm supposed to take it seriously.
In FHA, I like the sex scenes because they actually feel like the characters instead of badly written ooc fanfic ocs wearing the skins of Shirou, Rin, Sakura or Saber.
>>139968333
why does she look like a fucking ayy lmao?
>>139968319
The masters being adult means nothing when half of them are even more stupid and useless that Shinji
>>139960427
Depends, I think Nasu usually at least tries to justify the plot points. That's probably one of the reasons why I think anime adaptations can't hold candle to VN though, if you don't know about the skills of the servants, then everything will just seem like an asspull, especially since the anime series is way shorter and cramped, so these convenient moments are just so dense in the series and if you're a retarded zerofag secondary, then you probably won't be excited by the VN, because you're spoiled beyond belief.
>>139953493
HF == F/Z > Fate >>>>> Ubshit
>>139968800
There have been a lot of threads with the op saying FZ > FATE. I wonder if it's the same guy shitposting.
>>139953493
Zero anime is easily one of the worst parts of the franchise actually.
>>139970062
Ha. MALfag can't accep the sudden rise in ranking!
>>139956379
What is Strange Fake even about?
>>139953493
Yes, I'm glad Type-moon is doing well.
>>139971168
A weird war set in a weird part of the US of A.
The important thing to remember is that by 2022 at the latest there will be a beautifully animated movie series adaptation of Fate/Prototype: Fragments of Blue and Silver.
Are these self-contained? Can I wach Fate Zero without having watched anything else? I know the basic outline of what the Fate story is about
>>139974646
>adapting The Manaka Show
Fuck that.
>>139953493
Aside from the usual bait, specifying the anime really hurts your position.
It's a given with any adaptation, but Zero lost just as much as UBW or anything else compared to the LN. Scenes like Lancer's death actually had time to make a sensible impact in the book, instead of rushing through it in thirty seconds to make room for more Kiritsugu.
But even then Zero doesn't deserve the praise it gets. It's fine, but at the end of the day just supplementary material. No matter how many secondaries watch it in a vacuum and spoil half of Stay Night in the process, it's only meant to fill some gaps in a story framework that was largely already established by the VN.
>>139974646
>adapting The Manaka Show
Fuck yes.
Why isn't Shinji the MC?
>>139975846
No, but he should have been.
>>139976111
>Reading comprehension.
Why do I have to be this sick.
>>139956379
I think nips aren't giving a shit about it, sadly.
Not sure if apo was popular either.
>>139959977
>(how the fuck was Francis Drake a woman, Drake isn't some ancient legend with fuzzy details like King Arthur)
You can try reading the explanation given in nasuverse, which is actually logical (even though it's just an excuse to have more waifu materials, of course)
>>139976591
It's the best selling LN associated with TM. It's selling better than Apocrypha did.
>>139976877
Source?
>>139953493
I liked Fate Zero
Didn't have any of that teenage angst
>>139956379
Where can I read it ? I can't find more than the firts three chapters
