Is Ichigo in base form or shikai right now?
Also..
>anons who miss pic related get in here
>>139238081
still sad of how they got rid of him
>>139238081
>>139238260
He's going to be back with a vengeance now that Ichigo knows his real name.
>>139238469
What is the scenario in which we could see him back?
I wonder if real Yhwach personally knows him
>>139238081
wow is this show still going
>>139238081
Ogichi was the shit
spoilers
komamura reveals his sankai
>>139241540
>sankai
>third release
>following 'final release'
People aren't really this dumb, right?
>>139239230
He's been using the right name, but addressing the wrong spirit inside him. Now that he understands fully, his power should be far greater. Perhaps a Yhwach v Zangetsu battle inside Ichigo's mind. Zangetsu overcomes Yhwach's godlike abilities and proves to Ichigo that Yhwach can be killed.
Ichigo fights Yhwach, loses badly. Zangetsu says, "let me take over once more, for the final time." Ichigo hollifies completely, becoming Whitey, then goes Ressurecion Segunda. Ywhach counters by some ass pull. Ichigo pulls out his newly acquired Vollstandig from his inner Yhwach's death and the battle resumes.
That's my dream scenario.
>>139240218
>Ogichi was edgy shit
FTFY
>>139238081
Shikai unlike kenpachi ichigo know the name of his zanpaktou so he got to be in shikai.
>>139243306
So is it still a constant shikai or Ichigo chooses to stay like that?
>>139243306
He knows the name, but he never utters the release phrase. He can release 'bankai' without uttering a phrase and hold it indefinitely by absorbing the reishi around him.
Kubo could very well go "WHO SAID ICHIGO WAS IN BANKAI!??" in the coming chapters.
There's no such thing as a constant release type zanpakuto. Ichigo is in base, We'll probably see for sure just exactly what Ichigo is capable of now when he gets into a real fight with Ywach.
Does Kubo Tite read the superman comics?
The Miracle Stein is basically Doomsday.
Doomsday was the first character to kill Superman with nothing but blunt force attacks. In the animation, they changed the canon so that he had a "kryptonite body." But in the comic he did not. He was just straight up stronger than Superman.
In the comic Doomsday was raised from birth being ripped apart, eaten, vaporized, and otherwise killed over and over again, hundreds of thousands of times. Ancient Kryptonians were considered stronger than Yellow Sun Kryptonians. Each time he was killed, his experimental body made an adaptation granting immunity to that kind of damage.
After 100s of thousands of deaths, they could no longer kill Doomsday, so he committed genocide against the race of beings that pre-empted the "kryptonians" from who Superman comes from, killing literally every single one of them before leaving the planet.
Superman's various timelines have him die and resurrect several times, but by far, this was the most iconic death of superman, the most "real" one, as well.
>>139244885
Would have been nice if he stayed dead, but nope just sleeping xD
>>139244885
Seems like a bit of a stretch to say that Gerard is based off of Doomsday; he seems to be more of a reference to Norse mythology or possibly something Biblical, as fitting with the angelic theme.
>>139245591
Yeah I agree I guess. I just noticed the similarity in their abilities. They are nothing alike other than that really, since Doomsday didn't serve any master intentionally.
>>139245694
On the other hand Kubo is known to be a bit of a Westaboo but it's hard to say exactly how well versed he is in specifics like that.
How would Yhwach defeat Gerard?
>>139245893
The easy way. Reishi beam through the heart. No more miracles if the source of the miracle magic is gone.
>>139245967
Wouldn't a miracle occur preventing that?
>>139246046
No, Gerard's miracles are not preemptive.
>>139246071
Thanks anon, just had that thought. So really that's the only way to beat him. I was just asking how Ywhach would do it, since that's obviously the way to do it.
>>139244885
Sounds more like a combination of Askin and Pernida to be honest.
How has this manga evolved in the last years?
I think I dropped it at the same time I dropped Naruto, when they were fightning Madara.
>>139246338
Best arc with SS
>>139241632
Maybe something like swan songs of symphogear users? Last burst of awesomeness before death?
>>139246338
Poorly.
Too much fillers, too much streching every possible part of the story , backgrunds.
The original feel of SS arc is gone, replaced with angst. Lots of angst. Oh. Asspulls. Slow pace because of kubo trying to follow multiple story lines is the worst thou, everything else is Bleach as usual, only more.
Saying that, I'll be dammed sevenfold but I will read this manga to the end. I've invested too much of my life into this shit to drop it now.
>>139244885
absurd stretch
>>139247262
>fillers and stretching out the ass
Thanks for saving my time.
>>139247262
>I don't read Bleach: the post
At least you know all the memes though
I caught up from 430 to 667 and I was surprised at how little the story had progressed.
The main plot's pace is....glacial.
There have been some good moments though, more mayuri, more shinsui, and ichibe
>>139247933
Your take on Ichigo killing the king he was meant to protect?
>>139248409
I'm kind of disappointed in the soul king as a whole, though the whole right hand of the soul king is interesting.
>>139238081
Base form otherwise he won't be powerful enough to fight yhwach who should get even stronger.
>>139248504
It is as expected. The shinigami betrayed and enslaved the king. I personally want to know why.
>>139244885
>Does Kubo Tite read the superman comics?
>>139248740
>>139241540
>sankai
I fucking spilled my drink laughing
>>139244885
I'd say it's possible, if only because Gerard's eyes are literally what capeshit eyes look like under a mask.
>>139244885
Am I seriously the only one who thought this was Keit-ai at first???
>>139244885
>Each time he was killed, his experimental body made an adaptation granting immunity to that kind of damage.
that would be askin then
>>139247262
>fillers
>in the manga
>>139248740
>>139248821
>Aizen is revealed to be working to defeat ywach the entire time as the real hero of the story
>>139244885
I want Gerard to go Doomsday on their asses, especially Hitsugaya, no more fucking around. I want him to beat all of them Broly style like in the first movie, even if he loses in the end. Gerard is not legendary yet
>>139250913
>Gerard defeats all the captains present
>Aizen (Superman) appears to fight him.
>>139251056
We can only hope
>>139250187
But that's assuming Yhwach is the real villain. I get the feeling the real enemy of Ichigo will be either the Soul King, Squad Zero, Urahara or the Gotei as a collective. Yhwach is a giant ass, but one has to wonder whether or not he's actually fighting for a just cause and he does have sympathy and pity for Ichigo.
>>139252334
>but one has to wonder whether or not he's actually fighting for a just cause
Yeah, destroying the current world and recreating it in your own image is totally a justified cause.
>>139252420
It depends on how the current world was created.
>>139252420
So you supported Agent Smith and the AI hivemind in the Matrix movie, and felt that Morpheus was evil?
>>139252547
Most likely by destroying everything that existed before it.
>>139252420
It was in NGE. But we actually don't know what exactly destroy means. Yhwach needs souls. So he's obviously not going to wipe out humanity. Also we don't know, if that's actually Yhwach's goal. It's only what Askin thinks it is. Yhwach also wants to invade the world of the living. If he wants to destroy the world and recreate it, why would he need to invade it. The Kaisergesang also says Yhwach wants to relcaim the world. And it's not like Urahara is any different. Going by his Bankai and speech about scientists Urahara may probably de- and reconstruct the world.
>>139252597
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewbacca_defense
>>139252659
>Yhwach needs souls. So he's obviously not going to wipe out humanity.
Except genocide is exactly how Yhwach obtains all of his powers.
>And it's not like Urahara is any different.
Except his entire characterization tells us otherwise.
>>139252664
Doesn't apply. Morpheus was a terrorist trying to recreate the world in his own image.
Whether or not he's morally justified is a tough question, much of humanity would disagree with him, which was a thematic element in all of the films.
To state that Ywhach must be evil for wanting to rejuvenate the world with his ideal is a wanting argument because it's only from the perspective of ywhach as a villain. If the whole story was presented from his perspective, you might not feel that he was evil.
The argument doesn't rest on the veracity of the Matrix, or its similarities to this series, or with the idea that the movie itself can determine logical outcomes, but rather just uses it as a visual aid to remind you not to only look at the antagonist's actions through the eyes of the protagonist.
It's very clear that Ywhach has been fighting for a long time, and that he was badly defeated in the ancient past. It's also pretty clear that he has a good head on his shoulders, he's not dumb, so for him to maintain this motivation for so long and against such incredible odds suggests that there is merit to his ambition, rather than that it is just ambition to conquer for its own sake.
>>139252742
>Except genocide is exactly how Yhwach obtains all of his powers.
Yhwach need to continue getting powers. If there are no more souls he will eventually regress into a impotent infant and stay so forever.
>Except his entire characterization tells us otherwise.
Urahara said that a true scientist like him and Mayuri would want to destroy and create the new world with his own hands. His Bankai allows him to de- and reconstruct things. A Zanpakto is a representation and mirror to one's soul. So in one chapter Askin wonders rhetorically when the next guy like Yhwach will appear and Urahara gives a speech about destroying and creating the world with your own hands. In the next chapter he reveals a Bankai with the ability to de- and reconstruct. I highly doubt that's just coincidences. And the dissection wound Urahara inflicted on Askin looks exactly like the dimensional rift Hiyori discovered.
>>139252960
>Doesn't apply. Morpheus was a terrorist trying to recreate the world in his own image.
You need to first determine the causal relationship between Bleach and The Matrix, besides both obviously being fictitious.
>The argument doesn't rest on the veracity of the Matrix, or its similarities to this series, or with the idea that the movie itself can determine logical outcomes, but rather just uses it as a visual aid to remind you not to only look at the antagonist's actions through the eyes of the protagonist.
That's implying there is any similarity between Yhwach and Morpheus as characters; if anything, Yhwach is more similar to Agent Smith.
The problem here is that your argument is valid but it's not sound.
>>139253051
>If there are no more souls he will eventually regress into a impotent infant and stay so forever.
The whole point of him becoming God is that every Soul would return to him; that's how you become God in Bleach.
>Urahara said that a true scientist like him and Mayuri would want to destroy and create the new world with his own hands
Source that for me because I think you misread Urahara's quotation.
>>139253203
>You need to first determine causal relationship
Only if the Matrix is used as a premise. I was pointing out that "erasing the world and rebooting it" is not automatically evil. I think I did a sufficient job of that, since the original post I was discrediting was:
>>139252420
>yeah, destroying the world and recreating it in your own image is totally a justified cause
Here you assume that it is automatically unjustified. I used the Matrix example simply to show that that is not always the case.
I'm sorry if this confused you to the point that you had to post a wiki article on a technique used for intentionally confusing people, that was never what I meant to do.
>>139253392
>I was pointing out that "erasing the world and rebooting it" is not automatically evil.
That implies you're not killing billions in the process; which is why your logic is 'valid' but not 'sound'.
>>139253051
That's why he looked so guilty when Aizen was being sealed. Urahara knows.
>>139253304
>The whole point of him becoming God is that every Soul would return to him; that's how you become God in Bleach
Every soul would return to him. But of wiped out humanity he would only have those souls. But Yhwach would still need new souls or otherwise at somepoint he will regress. Let's say he wiped out everyone and as the Soul King he has 7 billion souls in him. Those souls will keep him content for a long time, but eventually he will run out of those and need new souls to feed. So he needs new souls.
>Source that for me because I think you misread Urahara's quotation.
These are from translators, that have the official raws. I trust them more than Mangastream.
NakkLeVaar: Oh, is that your answer to my question just now? / Well, that’s a shame. // I had a feeling you were like me, but I guess not.
Urahara: Perhaps if you’d asked Captain Kurotsuchi... // He may have shared your desire to witness something completely new.
NakkLeVaar: Kurotsuchi Mayuri, eh?
Urahara: But even then... / He wouldn’t be interested in something of Juchabach’s creation. // If we want to witness something nobody has ever seen before, we’ll create it ourselves. // That’s how us scientists are.
Askin：さっきの返事かよ
Askin：そりゃ残念だな
Askin：アンタはてっきりコッチ側だと思ってたんだが
Urahara：涅隊長ならあるいは
Urahara：新しい何かを見たいと言ったかも知れません
Askin：涅マユリか
Urahara：だけどそれでも
Urahara：ユーハバッハの創ったものを見たい訳じゃないんス
Urahara：誰も見たことのないものを創るなら自分の手で
Urahara：それが科学者ってもんス
>>139253877
Nothing in that quote implies Urahara wants to destroy the world.
>Those souls will keep him content for a long time, but eventually he will run out of those and need new souls to feed. So he needs new souls.
If he controls the entire Reincarnation cycle, then his supply of souls would be infinite. That's his entire goal. Is that so hard to understand?
>>139254093
>Nothing in that quote implies Urahara wants to destroy the world.
But before you can create something new, you must destroy the old. The first step is deconstruction. The second step is reconstruction. This could be seen quite well with Urahara's Bankai. Urahara wants to create a new world, but destroying the old will most likely be a nessecary evil for that.
>If he controls the entire Reincarnation cycle, then his supply of souls would be infinite. That's his entire goal. Is that so hard to understand?
Which means he's not going to wipe out humanity. That was my whole point, that humanity will live on despite Yhwach destroying the world.
>>139254258
>Urahara wants to create a new world, but destroying the old will most likely be a nessecary evil for that.
Once again, literally nothing from what you quoted suggests that.
>Which means he's not going to wipe out humanity. That was my whole point, that humanity will live on despite Yhwach destroying the world.
Just because he might create new humans doesn't mean it's right to kill off all the originals. You must be some special type of stupid.
>>139244147
It's a Shikai because Ichigo clearly stated during Yoruichi's explanation of Shikai and Bankai that he attempted releasing Zangetsu by calling its name, but the form did not change.
Of course, if Kubo wants to retcon that, and he's setting up the retcon by using Kenpachi's example now, then he can just say that Ichigo's powers were under strict suppression by Ywachgetsu.
>>139255295
So how do you think would Urahara want to create the new world? And his Bankai allows him to de- and reconstruct things, which again is a representation of his soul.
Nothing indicates that Yhwach can or wants to create new humans. It's more likely that he's just going to transform every human into a Quincy.
>>139255564
>So how do you think would Urahara want to create the new world? And his Bankai allows him to de- and reconstruct things, which again is a representation of his soul.
You are not providing enough basis behind your argument to back your premise: having a Bankai with a deconstruction ability only implies that Kisuke has a God complex, but otherwise is content with the existing world, or else why would he stop Aizen to begin with?
>Nothing indicates that Yhwach can or wants to create new humans
Didn't you? Otherwise when he destroys all three worlds (which is without a doubt his intention) there will be no new soul cycle to sustain him.
>>139253877
We've been over this shit before; that is an egregious mistranslation.
The final line translates as,
>それが科学者ってもんス
>sore ga kagakushatte mo n'SU
>That is [a] scientist then also, yeah(?)
All he's saying is that while curiosity and discovery is part of science, ala Askin and possibly Mayuri (he makes a point of being uncertain as to Mayuri's stance on the issue) his interests are less about finding new things and more about making new things. That's it. He in no way attempts to assert that anyone in the discussion "isn't a scientist."
>>139256265
In full
ASKIN:
>まだそんなスピードで動けんのかよ
>mada sonna SPEED de ugoken no kayo
You still move with such SPEED *expressing doubt*
>この「猛毒領域」の中で大したもんだ
>kono "Gift Bereich" no naka de daishita mon da
In the middle of this "Deadly Poison Domain," that is impressive.
URAHARA:
>......思わないつスね
>omowanai tsu SU ne
[I] don't think [it] is, right?
ASKIN:
>さっきの返事かよそりや残念だな
>sakki no benshi kayo soriya zannen da na
[That] reply just now *expressing doubt* that is [a] disappointment
>アンタはてっもりコッチ側だと思っでたんだが
>ANTA wa tekkiri KOCCHI gawa da to
YOU are surely with OUR/MY side I had thought, but...
URAHARA:
>涅隊長ならあるいは新しい何かを見たいと言ったかも知れません
>Kurotsuchi-taichou nara arui wa atarashi nanika wo mitai to ittaka mo shiremasen
If Captain Kurotsuchi, possibly [he would] want to see something new, like [you] said, maybe, I don't know
ASKIN:
>涅マユリか
>Kurotsuchi Mayuri?
Kurotsuchi Mayuri?
URAHARA:
>だけどそれでも
>dakedo soredemo
However, even so
>ユーハバッハの創ったものを見たい訳じゃないんス
>YWACH no tsukuta mono wo mitai wakejyanai n'SU
It does not mean wanting to see the thing YHWACH creates, yeah(?)
>誰も見たことのないものを創るなら自分の手で
>daremo mitakoto no naimono wo tsukuru nara jibun no te de
As for me, to create thing(s) no one has [ever] seen is my way
>それが科学者ってもんス
>sore ga kagakushatte mo n'SU
That is [a] scientist then also, yeah(?)
>>139255792
Because he certainly wants to create a new world with his own hands. That's what the scientist speach was all about. His Bankai is first deconstructing and then reconstructing. When talking to Aizen Urahara sounded more like resenting the fact that this was the way the world is. Urahara is probably going to use Ichigo in some way to change that. He stopped Aizen, because Urahara wants to do it himself and Aizen would have only complicated things. And because Urahara didn't knew what Aizen actually planned. He only found out that Aizen saw the Soul King, after he was already defeated.
>Didn't you? Otherwise when he destroys all three worlds (which is without a doubt his intention) there will be no new soul cycle to sustain him.
I didn't. My point was more that if Yhwach would destroy the worlds, he would let humanity somehow survive. Life was possible before the current world was created and life will probably be possible after it is destroyed. But that is assuming Yhwach's wants to destroy the world. I think Askin misinterpreted Yhwach's goals or that Yhwach changed his plans when he decided to absorb the Soul King and Mimihagi. I mean the Kaisergesang says Yhwach will reclaim the world, not destroy it. And if he really wanted to destory the world, why would he still plan to invade the world of the living?
Has someone ever reread the older chapters? I didn't knew Hollows were kept by Soul Society to excecute criminals. Or that Ganju doesn't actually use Kido.
>>139256458
>All this fucking headcanon being stated as fact
Anon, just stop.
>>139256614
One can't even make theories now?
>>139256693
One should know the difference between theory and fact; you're ignoring the latter in order to justify the former.
So if Gerard's sword being chipped gutted Zaraki, and his limbs being torn off just replaces them with veiny super limbs, given who we're working with, what exactly is the solution here? I know it's beyond Kubo to actually write a decent tactical fight around powers, but this one really doesn't look like some stupid secret movie is going to wrap it up nie and neat for once. Will it be one of the three captains we've got fightin or will someone else have to step in and change things up? Where the fuck is Soi Fon? Are Rukia and Renji ever going to get up? What about Shinji?
>>139256745
Fact 1: He made a speach about creating new things and this is his way, the scientist way as an answer to Askin's question about the destruction and recreation of the world
Fact 2: His Bankai allows him to re- and deconstruct things
Fact 3: A Zanpakto is a representation of one's soul
Fact 4: He used that Bankai after a discussion about destroying and creating the world
Fact 5: He's someone who's willing to go to extremes for the greater good
Fact 6: He's a shady person with a mystirious past
I think it's okay to make the theory that Urahara wants to de- and reconstruct the word with his own hands because of these facts. Whether it will come to this, I don't know, but theory itself is okay imo.
>>139257181
see >>139256265 and
>>139256333
Because it negates literally half of those points, which makes the entire premise pretty much baseless, especially considering we have him on record protecting the current world for most of the running manga.
>>139257164
Either someone will heal him and revert his size or he'll accidentally skewer himself and amplify the attack to infinity
>>139257415
The second part is not nessecarily a contradiction. In NGESeele and Gendo did the same thing only to create the impact themselves in the end.. Urahara may protect the world for now, because he needs to deconstruct it his own way. Urahara is certainly not pleased with the Soul King. If he wants to create a new world, hr probably would want to make sure that it will be in his image and what he considers a good/better world.
>>139257890
Your premise is still entirely circumstantial, not agreeing with how the world is now isn't necessarily the same as planning to destroy it. It's the latter that you have failed to prove here.
>>139256586
I wonder what Soul Society is more: fucked-up or incompetent.
>>139238081
>Is Ichigo in base form or shikai right now?
1st level reader detected. He's a perfect hybrid now, his abilities aren't going to be limited to Shinigami releases. He's in base form now, but he won't use Shikai or Bankai, he'll use some sort of hybrid transformation, likely some sort of Bankai/Resureccion/Vollstandig Super-Mugetsu
>>139258105
It's mostly because his Bankai is de- and reconstructing. A Bankai tells alot about his wielder. So my assumption is, if Urahara wants to change the world, it will be that way. Though I admit that I also wish for a Shinigami to be Ichigo's true enemy, so I may be influenced by that wish. Though I think that is more likely than Urahara trying to de- and reconstruct the new world. The Shinigami are willing to do extreme things for the sake of the Seretei. I don't think Ichigo would accept that so easily. There's also the issue of him being potentially locked up for eternity and being robbed of his future.
>>139249838
I think he was referencing Gerard's ability to regrow and regenerate severed limbs and other damage. The rejuvenated body parts are said to be increased in strength and resistance.
>>139258425
The Bankai reflects on his own obvious God complex; but that alone doesn't mean that he wants to destroy and recreate the world in the same vein as Yhwach. I think it's more likely he wants to better the existing world because he knows how delicate the existing balance is, and further outlines the difference between him and Aizen.
>>139258638
Seeing what happened to the last few characters with a godcomplex, chances are that Urahara could go overboard. Not saying he will, but godcomplexes have a certain tendency.
But it's still possible that someone else will be the final enemy and not Yhwach. There are many shady things going on the Shinigami side, especially regarding how Soul Society was created or the lost limbs of the Soul King.
>>139258928
Now you're appealing to the "Slippery Slope" fallacy, so I have to guess you have no more factual basis to continue this argument.
>But it's still possible that someone else will be the final enemy and not Yhwach
Sure, but it's not like Kisuke is the only candidate. Aizen, Haschvald, or even the Reio himself all have endgame potential.
>>139238081
It has to be Shikai, because he used Getsuga Tenshō twice. And there is no known Zanpakutō that has special abilities in its unreleased state.
>>139259076
Except Getsuga Tensho isn't Ichigo's Shikai ability; its a bloodline technique inherited from Isshin.
>>139259076
Getsuga is a family technique that even Isshin can use. We've also seen Isshin use it when his sword was sealed, so you don't even need your sword to be released to use it.
>>139259066
>so I have to guess you have no more factual basis to continue this argument.
I don't. I just wanted to mention that having a god complex can have quite the negative consequnces and that what Urahara thinks is best for the greater good may not be what's best for Ichigo's future. But yeah, have nothing to continue the argument. Well until we find out more about Urahara's plans. He clearly has some master plan that involves Ichigo and Rukia for some reason. But who knows what that will be.
