>dumb tsundere bitch shown all the shit the protagonist had to go through
>realizes she was a goddamn cunt to him for years
>realizes he's only ever been thinking of her safety
>pussy gets so wet her eyes start leaking
this needs to happen more often
Sauce?
>>136074981
Oh boy, HERE WE GO AGAIN.
>>136075034
>not just image searching or googling touka scott
Do you even try?
>>136075183
>out-trapped by your former apprentice
jesus
>>136075356
Is this LN adaption or manga original?
>>136076504
manga original
Why does comedy fantasy like this or Helck get better stories than "regular" fantasy manga?
>>136076532
>manga original
Guess that means he'll never bang.
Well at least harem ending is more likely.
>>136074981
It's the path of a humble guy who wears not his achievements but his fetishes on his sleeve. Can't really blame her for that.
>>136076687
This series is going to become a dark fantasy at this rate.
>>136076687
Because regular fantasy manga takes itself too seriously.
Why do people hate Yuna? All she did was respond to Touka's overly perverted personality.
This manga is garbage and was a waste of time reading.
>>136077045
Remember when Ubel blatt was about a cheeky elf boy that went around fingerfuck NTRing childhood friends?
>>136077094
I'm op and I don't hate her, it's just easy to dump on tsunderes, especially violent ones. Getting their tsun deflowered is so so satisfying too.
>>136075663
>she won't win the Toukabowl
>>136077273
It's beyond obvious it's gonna be a harem end.
>>136077368
Touka probably will die. Or open-ended Yuna victory.
![Yuusha ga Shinda! - c29 [batoto]_img000019.png](https://i.imgur.com/JdkSdqN.png "Yuusha ga Shinda! - c29 [batoto]_img000019.png")
>>136077490
>Touka probably will die.
Yeah, this is certainly the manga for that.
>>136077178
I don't even remember at which point I dropped it.
>>136077178
Those were the days.
>>136077114
>>mlp
>>136077531
Didn't he already somehow achieve this in his travels, like some town adopted the fashion because the princess visited dressed like that?
>>136077490
Obviously they will end up together since she has his favorite tights
>>136078471
1 town is far from a religion.
>>136078674
You gotta start somewhere.
1000+ yrs later he'll be regarded as the messiah.
>>136077490
So long as girls with glorious thighs crowd around Touka, Yuna will never get a clear win.
>>136078886
How can this be since Yuna's thighs are the best?
>>136079170
because yuna is a bitch
>>136079257
A bitch with amazing thighs desu senpai.
>>136077178
is this still being translated? it was getting hilariously nonsensical last time i read any of it.
>>136074981
>Dumb tsundere bitch
You do realize Touka is an asshole to her most of the time right? Just like she is to him.
It's fucking retarded to blame her over anything when you have him going after whores when she's captured by
>Imma turn you into a skellington
man.
It's like you didn't read the manga at all, Touka is a cunt to everyone most of the time and only cares about his fetishes. Hell he even wanted to touch her body several times when he took control over it and couldn't because other girls stopped him.
They're both retarded, and they're both fun as shit. I don't get faggots like you hating characters from a comedy manga where everyone is a cunt.
>>136079593
Kinda this, of course he cares about his nakama and all, but most of the time Touka acts like and asshole and makes people mad.
And in this series it works just fine, i wouldn't like a faggot Touka or the girls being hungry for his cock all the time.
>>136079593
You're an idiot if you think that OP was anything other than loving with his descriptions of Yuna.
Learn what hyperbole for comic effect is you manchild.
This arc can only end with someone falling into a trap and dying.
>>136079865
Preferably Yuna because tsunshit is cancer.
>>136079923
Did a tsundere shit in your mouth or something?
What blind hate.
>>136080083
He's just tsun.
Who gonna bet that the High Class monster will be killed by the trap which use to kill the Hero in the 1st place
>>136074981
Yuna has shown SEVERAL times she likes Touka since the beginning of the story.
When she mellows a bit down he goes and tries to put socks in her legs or some other perverted shit, which makes her lose any good feeling she had about him.
He pretty much brings it to himself, just wait in 1 or 2 chapters where he blows it off again.
>taking a fucking comedy/gag manga this seriously
You're retarded and who am I quoting.
>>136080373
You're quoting the dudes in the thread writing paragraphs on relationship dynamics. Asuka is in love with Kaji, not Shinji. Do I win a prize?
>>136080825
Nothing because it was a rhetorical question.
I think Touka is objectively hotter than the hero.
Shion looks like a fucking albino middleschooler who gets haircuts from his mom.
Remember when Touka wasn't generally a huge asshole? I don't.
>>136082121
>implying you aren't allowed to love assholes and bitches
So what? Everyone's a huge cunt in this story, even the fucking hero who just selfishly saves people out of nowhere.
>>136074981
Yuna is too much of a bitch when you have a full harem train following you why would you choose her over any of the other hotties?
>>136082328
Best thighs.
Touka agreed don't bother him about it.
>>136082362
oh please touka puts thigh highs on fucking radishes as if he had any standards
>>136082328
Because if you choose her then you also deprive her of happiness with a better man. sasuga keikaku
>>136082471
The hero? Hard to be worse than a dead man.
>>136082471
There's no way a harem girl can be happy with anyone but the MC, what kind of shit you're smoking and at what altitude? I want in.
>>136082550
There's no way a harem girl has ever tried it. Not enough data to support either hypothesis.
>>136082535
The hero's second in command is an alpha
>>136082638
>The hero's second in command is an alpha
he'll wind up becoming some dumbass eventually like everyone else in the series there are no alphas in this world
>>136075183
I've been wondering for a while, does the manga actually get random color shots for fanservice, or is that the scanlators coloring it in?
>>136082638
Who? That spear guy? He's a total idiot.
>>136082707
The king is an alpha.
>ITT: people talking about self-inset shit instead of fine fetishs.
neo /a/ sure is shit.
>>136082793
Only because he hasn't been in more than 5 pages just like the princesses adviser who started as an alpha and became a weirdo as time went by or Touka's teacher who became a thigh high joke.
>>136082550
>>136082859
What are you even quoting because it's definitely not this thread
>>136082879
This wasn't a harem.
Guys can somebody tell me a great manga app were i cand watch
>>136082879
Not a harem.
Also fuck rocks.
>>136082935
>>136082955
not conventionally but it did have a low male:female ratio and more than 1 girl was into the mc.
>>136083072
nah it wasn't a harem he had like 2 girls like him and one dropped it pretty quick
>>136083072
Harem is at least 3.
>>136082638
>The hero's second in command is an alpha
He's also closet gay.
>>136083111
Jitsu wa watashi wa and GE have harem girls getting with other/better guys later on. There's actually a whole bunch in the "serious" shounen romance genre. Like a lot of Seo Kouji stuff and that one about the faggy otaku who timeslips into the future and he's married to the hottest girl in school.
>>136082328
Because she's best girl and was his only friend when his dad beat the crap out of him.
>>136082879
Not harem and she's not even happy.
Yunis? Her name is Yuna Yunis?
I don't know, I'm kind of liking Milly better. Superior Yunis sibling.
>>136086166
Kinda high on autism though.
>>136086193
Eh, she seems smarter than she lets on. I also thought her obsession with getting to marry Touka after 100 duels was cute.
>>136085378
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzTpl5c6BSQ
author sure draws some ridiculously hot girls.
Where did you get the latest chapter?
http://urasunday.com/yusya/index.html
It hasn't even been updated on the official website.
>>136086960
Same place we got the last 40+ chapters?
>>136086166
Indeed Milly is fine, but i'm more of a Masterfag.
Yuna could eventually be ok somehow, but she shouldn't get the Toukabowl.
>>136077178
It started off as a cheap wannabe Berserk with lots of pointless sexualization and AgK tier edgy violence. Funny, as soon as it tried focusing on it's shitty story instead of just reveling in audacious sex and violence, that's when it got too bad to read. After it became apparent I wasn't even going to be getting a boner for my troubles anymore I tapped out.
>>136087200
> adult
> short hairs
> sweeater with lines showing off her big tits
> which stops before the belly button
God damn, she's perfect.
>>136087355
Besides the adult and short hair part.
>>136087442
>>136087287
>everything that uses dark fantasy setting is a wannabe berserk
Can you boatfags leave /a/ again, your opinions are rather cancerous and stupid.
>>136087533
fuk u bsrk best comic
>>136088889
It's my favourite manhua next to one man's punch
>>136089080
i preer hairytail
>>136086799
>She worked so hard to make that outfit
>naked again in the next 5 minutes
Ahaha. Never gets old.
>>136080139
I thought he was just going to get the hero to kill him. But it sounded weird too because he said "I'll kill him when I was at my strongest" and then showed Shion. So it kinda makes me think back to the castle arc when he was fully loaded up on mana, and THAT was what it was referring to instead.
I guess we'll find out
Your words are shit. Your sentences are shit. Your granma is even shittier. Learn how to english.
>>136090433
I didn't liked what you is saying.
>>136074981
I'm wondering about the relationship between Anri and the magician girl. Touka suggested that the magician girl hates Anri.
How could anyone hate Anri?
>>136090529
Everyone who hates necromancers hates Anri.
>>136090606
Necromancy is always the worst magic in any RPG or MMORPG. Maybe just above useless int buffs.
>>136090701
That's because most MMORPG are shit and won't allow you to summon a fucking army of the undead, even if their only worth is to zerg rush people.
Which kind of shitty necromancer can only summon one or two undead at a time?
>>136090701
Necromancy's concept is cool as fuck though.
>>136090883
>play elderscrolls for 10 yrs without figuring out what Turn Undead actually does
>>136090701
It could get hilariously broken in D&D. Steal souls, steal bodies. Why put your own precious body at risk when you could steal a stronger one? And the answer to the question "how useful are minions" is "how creative is the player controlling them?"
>Start reading this manga
>Page 5
>Childhood friend is written in Japanese with a TL note translating
Dropped.
>>136091725
what's wrong? Haven't adapted to using the superior osananajimi yet? poor anon. Can't even speak broken moon yet...
poor
pitiful
anon-kun
>>136091881
>TL note: keikaku means plan
>>136074981
Touka is a solid 10/10 MC.
He even knows what the best part of a woman is.
>>136091944
TL note: I left the entire page in romaji and sent a japanese dictionary to your address, please email me your notes on the chapter by monday.
>>136090883
Most MMORPGs have a limited FoV due to them being top-down/isomoetric. An army of undead would could quickly fill the screen and (making the player lose sight of himself) and also overload the servers which would slow things down to a crawl.
>>136092155
And that is why tabletop RPGs are superior.
>mfw faggots think necromancers are bad
>>136092185
Pretty much. MMORPGs lack that freedom and they're a clusterfuck of AoE spells.
>>136092133
We'll wean them off translations so fast
>>136092349
Necromancer is objectively best classand objectively best girl
>>136092133I would pay a translator to do this to me if they actually got on my case about learning.
>Some misunderstanding will put them right back to where they were before this and the manga will go on for another 5 years
And I don't even read this shit, all battle shounens are the same.
>>136083252
Never reading jitsu now. Fuck that shit
>>136093104
Jitsu's fine because the girls outta the harem are the ones that were never really serious in the first place.
>>136093214
So the REAL loyal ones stay? I can dig that then. It always bugs if they get paired off even if they're not the ones mc was after... it feels cuckish. Like that one with the the super powered harem of meltng girls.
>>136089392
The panel of Shion actually referred to that one chapter when he got revived by the princess' tears. You know, the one where he was supposed to swim or drink her piss.
>>136093593
>always bugs if they get paired off even if they're not the ones mc was after... it feels cuckish.
That is deeply pathetic.
>>136092923
After I give her a boatload of anti-histamines.
>>136076687
Because both of these manga didn't fall for the shounenshit traning>fight stronger nemey>tourney bullshit.
Master>Necromancer>Slut>Imouto>Princess
>>136097486
I can't rate Anri that high. We don't know anything about her. Watch her just be crazy about Shion.
Her arc is 'soon'
>>136097647
Anri is definitely #1
Her snot nose is kawaii as fuck
>>136097705
I'll give you that
>>136074981
>self inserting this hard
why is the princess so yandere?
>>136096091
I can't read yuri because it feels like it's cucking hetero mankind.
>>136075183
damn, another hentai artist that's transitioning to manga
>>136097905
You can't let your Touka-kun run wild.
>>136098767
Princess got cucked so hard these last couple chapters.
It wasn't even like debatable.
It was literally
>I love hero
>actually that dude was kinda a fag, you're cooler
>I'm gonna marrying you
>I'm the fucking monarch. I'm marrying you.
>No. I. Am.
>>136099000
Was hero shion a representation of faggy betaboy MCs? Is the manga set to illustrate that girls after the cock of a harem protag would move on in a split-second if another human male entered the picture?
Even if that human male was scum? That's how bad betaboy MCs are?
>>136098767
I see this mangaka used all of his effort in drawing the thigh and forgot to make the foot not crippled looking.
>>136099096
The girls (excluding Anri) didn't know him that well and unike Touka he wasn't interested in that kind of relationship.
>>136099535
Princess knew him somewhat, Yuna knew him the least, but that's never stopped girls from being disproportionately infatuated and faithful with a yuusha character before so,
Do you think she would have believed him if he told her everything he went through?
>>136099763
She might have thought it was a joke given his personality.
>>136099705
Well, he was a literal hero. And he did save Yuna. Also, Margaret thought that marrying him was her inescapable duty because her father wanted to keep the family STRONK and didn't take her feelings into account.
>>136099939
>go through hell
>almost skullfucked by demons
>almost dying in the snow
>traveling for months
>become a bandit's apprentice
>finally make it back to village alive
>probably got some brain damage from blood loss
>finally, you're gonna settle down, start a farm, marry your childhood friend etc etc
>Nah
>fuck that
>bitch in love the hero and think's you're a degenerate
what did he have to lose?
>>136100145
The only thing worse than suffering alone is to have others, especially people close to you, deny your suffering.
>>136100103
Damn. The short hair and that fuckin bod
It's makin me full of all sorts of emotions
>>136099535
rip crab, the animals in this series are great
>>136074981
I know it's a common trope to have the childhood friend be the love interest, but what about Margaret? ;_;
>>136100145
Why'd he even return to the village after Yuna and Yunis were saved, shouldn't he have gone adventuring with christmas cake-chan?
>>136100103
I love how she acts all tough but is really a softie. At first I thought they might have been sibling or something.
>>136100145
Touka probably didn't want her to pity him. He doesn't really strike me as that type of guy, he probably likes to keep his past hidden because it's a source of pain for him.
It shows especially one of the latest chapters that involved his mom, he was really emotional.
>>136100145
>become a bandit's apprentice
You type this as if it was a bad thing.
>>136100292
I don't remember Yuna forgiving him yet, so maybe that's the reason why?
>>136100292
Because he wanted to keep them safe from demons. And he wanted to repair his relationship with Yuna because of that letter she gave him.
>>136100145
Well him cooking meat to lure a demon into his trap WHICH FAILED and almost got Yuna killed until the Hero saved her again, probably played a large part in some of this.
>>136100272
Childhood friends always lose in Japanese fiction. This might be one of the few series where the childhood char is the leading heroine
>>136100292
They'd die in a week without his traps
What happened with Yuna's mom? Did she die when their village was attacked? Where was their dad when it happened?
>>136100421
author's can't do timeskips well and the story usually begins when a female is introduced so that's probably why.
Since the childhood friend can't launch the story they can't win as often.
>>136100236
>>136081716
What are you?
An average american female who like badboys vibe?
What a manly man.I don't mean Yuna's dad.
>>136100828Can't believe Shannon was a guy.
>>136100828
You'd think Touka would be better at identifying traps
>>136075118
I just tried it myself. Zero results.
What now my salty friend?
>>136101057
Ahaha.God damn it Carlos.
>protagonist in a girls body for 15 chapters and growing
>only got to kneesock just once
You'd think he would have moments alone or something. Its been at least two days or so.
>>136101239
roughly 1/4 of the manga is bodyswap
Absolutely glorious, we need more fetishes
What fetish will be covered next
>>136100994
>>136101057
And he doesn't even try to pass as a girl.
>>136100828
I hope Shannon later joins the harem.
>>136102025
That would be gay, anon.
>>136102025
As soon as they get rid of Yunis' and Yuna's dad he'll gain both Shannon and that busty chick through transit of properties applied when gaining a new harem member (Yunis)
>>136101057
>>136102116
It's not if Shannon later on is revealed to be a flat reverse trap.
>>136102419
And then that would explain why he didn't fall for the trap!
It only looked like a trap
>>136102582
>swimsuit collector adventurer
How do these people even survive
Can anything beat that job?
>>136101111
That's bullshit you fucktard, I got the wiki for this manga as the fifth result on my google when I googled Touka Scott
Fuck you, use the fucking google
>>136076687
Well if you've read the original Epic of Gilgamesh or Heracles or Theseus you'll note that most ancient myths have a kind of comedy attached to them, like when Enkidu hurls the dead Bull of Heaven's severed genitals at Ishtar's face or when Heracles gets pissed off at a bunch of Egyptian priests so he grabs one and uses him as a club to beat the others to death or when Theseus and his friend decided it would be a good idea to go to the underworld and ask Theseus' uncle Hades if he could let his friend fuck his aunt Persephone, to which Hades responds by trapping them to the chairs they're sitting in
Those ancient myths also mix in tragedy with the comedy like when Theseus forgets to use the right sail on his ship and his father Aegeus thinks Theseus was killed by the minotaur so he commits suicide by drowning, or when as punishment for throwing bull testicles at Ishtar's face the king of the gods Anu sends a curse that causes Enkidu to wither and die after which Gilgamesh mourns for days or when Heracles kills his wife and children in a fit of madness/drunkenness
So many of the fundamental ancient hero stories, including that of Gilgamesh the OG hero story included jokes interspersed between the heroic action parts and the questing parts and the tragic parts
>tsundere getting BTFO about their behavior
Why is this so arousing?
>>136076687
Because darkness induced audience apathy is a real thing
Even the ancient legends had numerous light hearted moments
It's like real life. Yes there's death, disease, violence, and unimaginable amounts of misery and suffering inherent to the world.
...and then you have things like the vaginal fart and fainting goats.
>>136103553
Geeeee, I wonder why /a/ would love that kind of development, I fucking wonder.
>>136103553
Tsunderes getting literally BTFO is even better
>>136103553
Because they had it coming.
>>136103553
Hey it is not everyday that the tsundere come to a self realization about her own shitty behaviour.
Yuna is an example to be followed even though I prefer the necromancer.
When will the best knight and the mage will join Touka's harem?
>>136103991
Anri is so cute, but why did she latch onto Touka so easily? Didn't she journey with the hero for a while?
>>136104109
He's the one that accepted her like the hero.
Also the hero is dead.
>>136104109
Getting him to take responsibility for killing the hero.
anon self-inserts a little too hard sometimes.
He's hidden most of his good points from her for years while brazenly demonstrating his bad points. It's a miracle she even liked him before.
>>136104403
Touka had a very shitty life.
>>136104082
>>136103767
It's always refreshing to see MCs like that.
>>136097647
It's a girl who's willing to spend her life shilling with you in the woods without ever asking for anything. How nice is that?
Ethel is superior tho.
Wasn't Yuna mad at Touka because he wasn't the one to save her and Milly when the demons attacked their town? Why would she expect him to save them when she didn't even know where he was?
>>136075034
>character name in the thread title
just look that shit up and there you go
What chance is there that Snot-sama is NOT Anri's brother?
>>136105011
That's what I thought too. It doesn't make any sense, why would she hold a grudge over that when he had already left that town?
>>136105855
I thought she was just still holding a grudge over what he did before he left, and when he came back he probably acted like a pervert too so her opinion of him never changed.
Looks like the female Necromancer is sweating(might be just dirt though).
>>136104669
The fact that she did this twice is amazing.
>>136077490
Touka is already dead. But his soul will possess another body.
>>136107871
No he isn't.
>>136078788
The princess and the cake's are better.
>>136107871
You seem to be misunderstanding how necromancy works. Touka can possess Shion's body and Yuna because he's alive. Dead people are just dead, forever. If his original body was killed he'd immediately die too.
>>136093593
>Like that one with the the super powered harem of meltng girls
Sauce?
>>136108119
he means brynhildr.
>>136108223
That manga? Nah, there's no need for him to worry about the protagonist being cuckolded by other guys, since all the girls are obviously going to die in horrifying ways.
>>136108318
Lynn please.
>>136091725
>reddit babbies
Does it go to shit like Shield hero did or is somewhat stable through?
>>136109623
It gets better as it goes, also it's absolutely nothing like Shield Hero so I don't get the comparison in the first place.
>>136110086
MC attitude.
>>136109623
Each arc has been better than the last so far. The current one is especially good because you see more of Touka's past.
>>136110180
Not him, but from those 2 chapters I saw, SH guy and Touka are completely different.
>>136110245
Touka's girls are also much more realistic in the sense that they do have debilitating flaws.
>>136109623
Yuusha is a comedy.
Shield hero is just your typical transport/summon to game world power fantasy with female companions. There are dime a dozen of these shitty LN out there.
>>136110180
Touka is nothing like Shield hero.
>>136087442
>literally the two best parts
>>136082386
He bullies Anri for her lack of meaty thighs
>>136110245
Why are the women offended by the MC's fetish? He's even content with using radishes rather than the real thing. Yuna's dad is much worse with the groping.
>>136112284
They're not, they're offended when he attempts to do it on THEM.
Particularly Yuna, she gets the treatment every 3 chapters.
>>136112284
It wouldn't be much fun if they just let him do it easily.
>>136112188
And he loved those super fat Princess thighs.
>>136112284
Well, Yuna's dad was kicked from Four Knights for all he did and his daughters didn't even bother meeting him upon his return. Plus Touka still loves other parts. Remember naked-with-kneesocks?
>>136077178
>Touka Scott
It's amazing reading back tome 0 or 1 and seeing the amount of shit Koinzell could get done in a single book back then.
Now we're happy if he can be in two fight scenes.
Ironically, the author is trying to lengthen Ubel Blatt'ss life to the detriment of everything else just like Glenn is doing.The sex was never good though
>>136112720
We'll never see that outfit again.
>>136112720
It really is the best outfit for a martial arts girl. Really promotes that freedom of movement.
>>136113042
UB was okay to read until Glenn's return and a nonsensical and needless timeskip IMMEDIATELY after. After that it was hard to follow the story or feel engaged.
>>136074981
I am surprised the Author actually bothered to explain why the MC wants to be Villager A for the rest of his life.
I want to hate loving sex with Yuna.
>>136104109
He is the second person to actually accept her with the previous true hero being the first.
Also I want to fuck the mage.
>>136113217
Yuna really was meant to be a monk.
Also Yuna we got now is better than the one we could have gotten.
>>136115539
That might have been fun.
>>136112284
They don't really care about Touka's fetishes. Yuna certainly doesn't.
She cares when he tries to put socks on her, or touch her body. Because he immediately goes and does the same to other girls around.
I guess the only thing left is to find out why Yuna wants to be a magical girl.
>>136115539
Prototype Anri would have been delicious, but like the author said it would be hard to make her into a joke character that way.
>>136116727
Who doesn't want to be a magical girl? Where are your dreams you faggot!
>>136104082
>>136104669
Stupid sexy Thera-sama.
>>136117970
>Stupid
How cruel!
>>136116792
True.
Wait so is she actually mad about him groping her all the time or jealous about his perving on other women?
>>136122065
Yes.
>>136115539
I can see a girl with the "I should be the one to you Touka!" being introduced later anyways if the harem gets stale.
I want to fuck Yuna.
>>136123428
I want to cuck Yuna.
>>136099535
I fucking love this guy
>that feel no Crab Twin Scissors Sidekick
>>136082550
Ryou in Clannad, she has a canon love interest outside of Tomoya in one or more routes, and its noted that her chemistry with that guy is far better than with Tomoya.
She liked Tomoya because he seemed cool, because her sister liked him, because she was around him each day, and he seemed interesting. She wouldn't be unhappy with Tomoya, but he's not the one she was happiest with in the end.
Ryou and Kappei connect on a far deeper level.
>>136124755
Ef - A Fairy Tale of the Two did something similar, except childhood friend btfo and fucks with some other guy I think. It's been awhile since I've read/played it.
This is how the story will end, right?
Ura Sunday is pretty damn solid these days, very nice collection of titles
There is a hilarious manga that just started titled: The S rare equipment that fit her, basically a comedy manga about a guy who has to use a mobage to help a magical girl gets better equipment wasting all his money in the process.
It's a pretty funny satire, nice to see that not everyone fall into these mobage shit
>>136125832
These images always crack me up when someone falls in the traps. The bamboo shoots are cut into fucking molecular sharp tips that can pierce through anything.
>>136117371
If a boy wants to be a magical girl then don't call him a faggot :^(
>>136101111
>What now my salty friend?
Now you remaind ignorant of what the sauce is
