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Which Super Saiyan form is strongest, and why is it SSJ4? GT
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Which Super Saiyan form is strongest, and why is it SSJ4?
GT was a collective bag of fecal matter, but SSJ4 clearly dominates the revived Pinky-Pie Saiyan form.

ITT: Discuss
>>
No.
Shut up.
>>
>>135934122
desu I always did find SSJ4 to be a cool form. SSJ God is just Toriyama forgetting Kaioken already existed, and SSJ god SSJ is even lazier because it's just AND NOW... IN BLUE.
>>
>>135934122
broly>all
>>
>>135934703
I'm okay with all of Toriyama's forms, the only one that steps out of line is super saiyan 3. Making his hair grow longer, that was just stupid.
>>
>>135936224
Broly was a terrible character.
>>
>>135934122
SSJ4 is better than SUPERSAIYIANGODSUPERSAYIAN any day of the week.
>>
>>135934122
>SSJ4
>Alright, so this new form will be tapping into the origins of the series, back to the monkey tails saiyans used to have, to combine the power of the oozaru with super saiyan! This has the potential to backfire at first, as losing your control as an oozaru is easy, but once dominated it gives you awesome power, as well as a more primitive look to reflect this return to their origins!

>SSJGODSSJ
>Ok, so the saiyans get together.
>Yeah.
>And they all pass their energy into one of them.
>Like that's something special that's not ever been done before.
>And this turns him into god because why not.
>Also this is somehow public knowledge despite not ever being mentioned before while everyone had their asses whooped by whatever villain and people even doubting normal super saiyans existed before Namek.
>Oh and they just look red or blue.
>Fuck actually designing a new form.
>Genius.
>>
>>135934122
Fuck GT but that SSj4 design is mils ahead of that stupid God design.
It just looks fucking cool
>>
While I don't agree with the sudden circlejerk of SSJ4 and general GT shit around here as of late, I absolutely agree that the reason behind SSJ4 existing is superior to the god transformation.

I personally would have been happy if the original god form had a proper reason for existing outside of "happy good guy teamwork power up." It felt forced and unimaginative. I would have liked it if it were less of a "legend" status and more of a traditional "we went further beyond" kind of ascension. You know, with the help of a god, and possibly Kyoji

Given all the kaio-ken jokes, I think it actually would have been alright if they went ahead and used the technique as some sort of explanation for Goku to tap into and feel god ki, given how he's the only mortal character on record to have ever used it at this point. I would have accepted anything over what we got.
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SSJ4 is the dumbest shit there is. You can piss on the new forms all you want, but at least they aren't red-monkey-with-too-much-mascara level retarded.
>>
>>135934122
Considering Saiyans are literally and I do mean literal Were-apes why did people have a problem with SSJ4?
>>
>>135942973
The design looks even more retarded than SSJ3.
>>
>>135943037
>>
>>135942973
The design, at least to me, is over the top and unlike any previous transformation of the race. The "ape-like" features are nothing more than pink/red body hair and eye liner. I like the concept, but the design just screams "lol so cool" every time I see it, and that seems to be the recurring statement of everyone I know who likes it. I don't particularly like god form, but I at least prefer it to ssj4.
>>
>>135943234
Even more useless hair, now it's nearly everywhere instead of just his head.
Emo Makeup.

At least SSJ4 has eyebrows again, but it still looks like absolute garbage, Kanye.
>>
Ssg is moe
>>
GT never happened.
>>
>>135940160
This. Gt is garbage but SSJ4 is the hypest thing in the world. It's design is perfect.
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>>135943247
It always looked fitting to me because through the whole series the fact that they were even saiyans was only acknowledged through the ssj transformation the tails and the ape form was completely discarded for whatever reason

Hell they could've just wish their tails back and I will never understand why vegeta never did You'd think losing his tail would set him the fuck off

The form was attained through controlling the oozaru form and reverting back with that power right it made sense for them to be monkey like they could've taken it further but it was to appeal to kids I guess it's still fine thematically imo
>>
>>135937742
SSJ3 is the best form.
>>
>>135943555
Shit is super
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>>135940160
fucking Toriyama
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>>135943037
>>135937742
>not knowing super saiyan 3 is the best form
how
>>
>>135944173
See>>135943234
>>
>>135943720
>Hell they could've just wish their tails back and I will never understand why vegeta never did You'd think losing his tail would set him the fuck off

50 Zeni says Toriyama forgot
>>
>>135940160
>SSJ
>Lol the hair turns colors and sticks up

>SSJ2
>Lol let's add sparks

>SSJ3
>Lol more hair

See? You can make them all look retarded by how you word them. So shut the fuck up.
>>
>>135945683
That excuse doesn't work in this case, because SSJ God is literally just the kaioken. Having the kaioken be just Goku in red was ok because it was the very first power up and it was impactful when no one could transform and it was wierd as fuck. Havin SSJ be just blonde hair was ok because it was more noticeable and emblematic than the kaioken. SSJ2 was just the next step, where the explanation was more like a supercharged SSJ. SSJ3 was kind of stupid in theory, but at least it made and effort to make you realize the change was noticeable, that it was the next step in evolution.

SSJ God is like if Toriyama had strolled into the studio and said "Alright guys, just make him red, no one will notice I didn't even think about this". So no, you shut the fuck up, even if you worded the rest worse it's obvious why SSJ God is lazy and badly done. Because that is literally what it is. A color slapped on them, nothing else. Not even fucking spiky hair, or any way to make it recognizable.
>>
>>135939882
>still not using Super Saiyan Blue
>>
Why is SSJ4 even a thing? Weren't all saiyans able to control the oozaru? Didn't Goku go berserker when in oozaru form because he remembered his mission of destroying the planet?
>>
>>135946172
If that was the case, why did Gohan go berserker when in oozaru?
>>
>>135943247
This. SSJ4 was an amazing concept in theory, executed horribly.
God is practically the opposite, as I actually love Super Saiyan Blue's design (not SSJG though), but its background is bullshit.
>>
>>135946172
No one ever tried to go Oozaru after learning Super Saiyan. I think the Oozaru form naturally evolves into Golden Oozaru once a saiyan unlocks Super Saiyan.
>>
>>135945683
Also this.
The series has always been about stupid fucking transformations, combined with Toriyama's forgetfulness.
>still irked we never saw Gotenks go SSJ2 or Vegeta go SSJ3, even if for a moment.
>>
>>135946172
Nah they were taught also The oozaru was in supersaiyan form

So imagine being a giant angry monster
Now multiply that by 200
>>
>Eyeliner
>Pink fur
>Magical pants

Is furfags wet dream.
>>
>>135943720
Now if his facial structure was kept something like that then I would've appreciated the design more
>>
The reason Super Saiyan God is the way it is is because, according to Toriyama, gods transcend things like muscle mass and shit. That's why Bills is a skinny purple cat. Muscles mean nothing to a god. Getting bigger or buffer wouldn't add anything to them, so when Goku becomes a god, his muscle mass decreases due to how unnecessary it is.
>>
>>135947829
And the rest of characters? Because everyone looks far weaker than before.
>>
>>135947945
Gohan hasn't trained in years.
>>
>>135948158
Neither have Vegeta, Krillin, Yamcha or Tien from what I'm seeing. In fact, I think Piccolo is the only one who still mantains some noticeable muscle.
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>>135946487
Here you go.
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>>135948465
>>
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>>135948525
And in case you wanted Super Saiyan 2 GT Gotenks, here you go as well.
>>
I still don't get why Old Kai knew about SSJ4 when he was probably sealed before the Saiyan race even existed. Then he pulls it out of Goku's ass and calls it Super Saiyan 4 even though it's not really an advancement of SSJ3. And the clothes. Why does Vegeta change gloves?
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>>135948675
And hey, for the hell of it, Super Saiyan 2 Broly.
>>
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>>135948780
Now as for Vegeta, would you like regular...
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>>135948688
>Why does his gloves change
It's Shounen ain't gotta explain shit
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>>135948874
Or Majin?
>>
>>135934122
Broly (Full Potential) >>>>>> Goku SSJ4 > Goku SSJG
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>>135948917
How about Super Saiyan 3 Yamcha, Puar, Krillin, and Master Roshi?
>>
>>135948917
Dragon Ball Heroes has really cool things.
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>>135949028
Agree.
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>>135949116
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>>135949028
It has everything. Cool things, dumb things, Majin Baby Janemba things. It even has things for Gohan AND Future Gohan.
>>
>>135943720
>>135934122
I really liked the rational behind SSJ4. They were bringing the primal power of oozaru form and condensing it. The one thing that DBZ never explored was the oozaru form after the introductions.

I think the people's backlash is because its not toriyama, and some sort of weird backlash brought upon by the cool design. People say its "edgy" or something along the lines, but they forget that the entire super saiyan is the edge mode. The SSJ3 Goku and SSJ2 Gohan were the pinnacle in DBZ. In my opinion the SSJ4 put the saiyans in a more natural form similar to Gohans mystic training form. Thats just my opinion ofcourse.
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>>135949215
It has something for everyone.

Except Pan.
>>
>>135949252
>but they forget that the entire super saiyan is the edge mode.
This 100x

I don't understand why they decided to have Goku be so lax when Frieza returned considering he was the worst enemy he faced as heres was just pure evil and considering the rage and anger Frieza caused I don't know why he wasn't angrier when he returned and threatened his family and planet again
>>
>>135934122
Are we taking into account the different base power levels of a character?

Because base GT Kid Goku was shitting over a guy whose base form was stronger than Buu. And even when Rildo went into his true form and boosted his power he was a little more than a match for base kid Goku.
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>>135949539
>FnF
Toriyama forgot
>DBS
Toei forgot
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>>135949621
GT timeline is where Goku/Gohan/Vegeta didn't stop training. Yes Gohan continued his training. Remember, Goku trained with Uub all those times hardly seeing his family so he's gained quite a bit of boost in that.
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>>135949539
He did it the first time he fought Fridge. Fuck, he even powered down to base.
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>>135949662
>>135949858
>"I'll never forgive you friezer!"
>5 minutes Later
>"I'll let you live just don't do anything crazy okay?"

Goddammit Toriyama/Funimation/Toei/Goku
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>>135950172
>5 minutes
u cheeky cunt
>>
>>135949252
>They were bringing the primal power of oozaru form and condensing it.

That was kinda SSJ3. Check the first transformation.
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>>135950338
One of the original concepts for it even had the tail coming back.
>>
>>135950338
It was all in his head yo.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53doeveW9SI
vs
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH_CcJ-uBWI

You're going to love this. Trust me.
>>
>>135937742
You're really okay with palette swaps for transformations?
>>
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>>135942973

The idea was good. The color choice was not.

Before becoming SSJ4 Goku was a Golden Ape. Why just not keep with that idea to make pic related?
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>>135943720

If you watch DBZ with the Japanese voice actors,most times a Super Saiyan is transforming you can hear an oozaru behind.

SSj2 Gohan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XebyKpo6A9s

SSj3 Goku
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lojvWUsa0tc
>>
>>135952738

I think it only happens when they want to ascend beyond SSJ1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jrb0xac2XQ
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>>135952826
>>135952738
Neat
>>
>Super Saiyan "God"
>No tail

Why?
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>>135952826
Goku had some weird yell the first time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsalzwkykIg
>>
>>135934122
Friendly reminder that a full powered kamehameha from SSJ 4 can only destroy a city block, and all it take is THE ELECTRICITY OF AN ENTIRE CITY to match its power
>>
>>135953352

Ah but that was some problem the japanese VO had that day.
>>
>>135953352
can you imagine an 80 year old woman screaming into a microphone?
shit must look funny as fuck
>>
>>135953864

Dude she's 80 now and that scene was recorded like 30 years ago.
>>
>>135953305
wasn't the tail removed forever by god when he was a kid?
>>
>>135954038
well she's still goku's VA and she still screams in a microphone
>>
>>135953305
You didn't see the flashback when first ssjg had a tail?
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>>135942973
ssj4 was literally the coolest form

>same hair as normal except longer and more wild looking
>crimson body hair and tail looks more primal and shit
beast as fuck

ssj3 looks cool, but it's kind of stupid thinking of why it should even look like that. It would make more sense if it had something to do with dragons and wasn't just a natural form
>>
>>135953864
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xep1cc_dragon-ball-kai-episode-special-l-e_shortfilms
>>
>>135954699
i'm fucking dying dude
thanks for that
>>
I always hated how SSJ3 has eyebrow muscles
seriously wtf
>>
>>135955162
Its normally hidden bedhind the eye brows hairs.
>>
>>135945683
SSJ was well designed and actually looked like a balanced power up in contrast to the Kaoi-ken.

SSJ2 was just as good with the lighting, making it seem like there was an unstable amount of energy being resonated.

I wasn't particularly fond of SSJ3 when I was a child but I like it in hindsight, when you consider it's just a visual representation of Someone pushing their bodies' limitations and boundaries.

God form is fucking trash it makes me sick, everything about Super makes me angry.
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>>135947829
How fucking retarded is that.

By this logic they should have dropped muscle mass by the end of king piccolo arc. They'd need to be hundreds of times larger to pull off the kind of shit they manage on Namek.
>>
>>135934297
SSJ4 can't be killed with a laser.
>>
>>135934122
>GT was a collective bag of fecal matter
This is what DBZ niggers believe.
>>
>>135952454
That actually bothers me the most. Its continued usage by shitty fans has made it even worse than it is, almost as bad as that ssj5 pink-skinned silverback niggorilla bullshit from years ago.
>>
>>135952738
I swear, DBZ is the only anime where the Japanese voices don't match most of their characters at all.
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Vegito is the strongest being in the Dragon Ball universe. He only goes up to Super Saiyan 1. Never goes higher and left us with blue balls.

>Zero screen time in Dragon Ball Super

Being a Vegito fan is suffering.
>>
>>135958633
Better go check out DBM then anon
>>
>>135958633
Well, they can't bring him back because he'd fuck everybody up. Especially going SSJG or blue. Could you imagine how strong a SSJG Vegito would be?
>>
>>135958633
Vegito vs Gogeta.
Who would win?
>>
>>135958823
DBM is fanfiction at its worst. I'm not saying that the effort put into it isn't worth acknowledging. In fact, it's downright impressive how dedicated they are. That said, it's nothing but powerlevel circlejerks and "what if" scenarios for characters that otherwise shouldn't reappear or interact. They go even further by simply headcannoning fan favorites to the top, throwing out power ups and unconfirmed interpretations of character abilities. It gets especially bad around the Broly shit and after, as if anything about that needs explaining.

>>135958894
If they brought him back, someone would need to sit down with ol' Tory and remind him just who the fuck he is. Then promptly shoot him with a laser beam through the chest.

Then shoot Vegito, too.
>>
>>135959143
Vegito because Gogeta is non-canon, fan-fic shit.
>>
>>135959195
But anon, Dragon Ball GT is canon.
>>
>>135959169
Besides Broli, can you explain
>it's nothing but powerlevel circlejerks
And also
> "what if" scenarios for characters that otherwise shouldn't reappear or interact
Why is that bad? That's the entire premise of the series. It's like saying the Android arc was bad because it created robots that otherwise would never become as powerful as they were.
Hell, they kept Gohan as Ultimate. GT nor Super has done that. They pander to all fans, not just Goku/Vegeta fans like GT and Super.
I'm not trying to imply Multiverse is superior or official in any way, I'm just not sure I understand your complaints. Its basically DB Heroes with a plot and less exaggerated power ups.
>>
>>135959143
Wasn't it said Vegito was more powerful since some shit where Goku had to lower his lever to match Vegetas when going Gogeta, but with Vegito it's just them at their strongest multiplied. Either way, Gogeta sucks.
>>
>>135959446
I always assumed so. At the very least, Potara are a "more effective" fusion, and by that nature alone should be stronger.
>>
>>135959195
Dragonball Universe has 12 different alternative realities. One reality is where GT takes place. One is where Super is taking place.

If we assume that, then there should be no issue.
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>>135959611
No, it has 12 different PHYSICAL UNIVERSES. Think super-galactic clusters.

GT and Super are diverging TIMELINES, alike Future Gohan's future(s).
>>
>>135959531
>>135959446
Yea, Potara is a more effective/efficient fusion since you always come up with the added power. Dance requires matching power to that of a lower level person, else it fucks up. In any case, the GT Gogeta would still win over Z Vegitto simply because the base form of both Goku/Vegeta are that much stronger in GT. I believe the base Goku in GT is as strong as Buu/SSJ3.
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>>135959300
>>
>>135934122
SSJ4 design > SSGSSj

Maybe we'll get SSGSSj4
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>>135959701
Time and space are same thing just looked at it from different mathematical perspective.

Future Gohan's timeline takes place in another one of the 12 universe.
>>
>>135934122
>Which Super Saiyan form is strongest, and why is it SSJ4?
Actually, it's probably SSJG. SSJ4 is, in terms of power, just yet another advancement down the line. SSJG is on an entirely different line, literally divine, to the point where normal ki fags can't even sense God ki.

>GT was a collective bag of fecal matter
I highly doubt it's any worse than super, given how much QUALITY we got. Hell, it's anime original and still half of the show feels like filler.

Nevertheless, I prefer the design of SSJ4 over SSJG.
>>
>>135959847
mathematical prospective != how they work in fiction.

Especially in a weird-ass universe like DB's.
>>
>>135934122
Silly child. They both suck.
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>>135934122
Brand new design that captures the essence of the sayains vs LMAO MAKE HIS HAIR RED
>>
>>135959856
>Nevertheless, I prefer the design of SSJ4 over SSJG.
Well one is actually a new design and the other is just a recolor. I think both look like shit personally. Only thing they did right was bringing back the tail for SSJ4.
>>
>>135959856
Supreme Kai's ki can't be sensed either. That doesn't mean they're invincible. God ki is just another type of ki. Buu killed some of the Kais, if you remember that.

Also, if you remember when Goku first became a super saiyan and compare that to the end of Z Goku's super saiyan. The power level difference is very clear. Just because they have SSJG, doesn't make him immune to attacks or fatigue or mortality. Now if Super's SSJG Goku had 5 years of training and then fought the GT's Goku, SSJG would win. God ki boosts some natural powers, but the training is still the key. A new SSJG won't be a match for GT Goku given the 5 years of constant fighting/training Goku did with Uub.
>>
>>135957167
Goku has one of the worst VA ever.
>>
>>135940160
>>SSJ4
>>Alright, so this new form will be tapping into the origins of the series, back to the monkey tails saiyans used to have, to combine the power of the oozaru with super saiyan! This has the potential to backfire at first, as losing your control as an oozaru is easy, but once dominated it gives you awesome power, as well as a more primitive look to reflect this return to their origins!


>Also he always reverts to child form later, also he gets magical pants and boots. also when he reverts his clothes grow back.
>>
>>135934122
I don't like SSJ4 because it doesn't look at all like a super saiyan form. Why even call it a super saiyan? Just call it Pure Oozaru or some shit.

I'll admit I have a soft spot for the SSJ god forms though because It allows Goku to kick ass, be strong and still look like Goku. If you showed me a super saiyan 4 with no context my first guess would not be "Oh that's Goku". Then again, my enjoyment of Dragonball has to do with more "Is the character able to be both strong AND somewhat lighthearted which SSJ4 and SSJ3 kinda don't do.
>>
>>135949539
Because Goku's not an "angry vengeful" guy. Even when he's facing someone evil he's usually got a calm lighthearted demeanor. Even when Goku's originally fighting Freeza he was enjoying himself until shit got to real and people he cared about started dying. Goku loves a fight, and even he's fighting the most evil person alive, he's gonna take some enjoyment out of the challenge.
>>
>>135959398
The entire premise of DBM is powerlevel shenanigans. It's done exclusively in the commonly used 1v1 tournament scenario that most writers use to pander to fans that want to watch characters duke it out to prove which ones are stronger than others. This idea alone isn't the problem. The problem lies in the fact that this is done with previously established, popular fan characters that have been subject to this admittedly obnoxious debate cycle for well over a decade.

Also, about this
>"what if" scenarios
>the entire premise of the series
>like saying the Android arc was bad because it created robots that otherwise would never become as powerful as they were

Not sure how this works here, seeing as all of fiction is essentially "what if this happened" storytelling. The "what if" present at the original time of writing is the story itself. What transpires is simply that. There's nothing more to it. The "what if" being explored in DBM and everything else is the hypothetical interaction of preexisting characters from the franchise fighting in a 1v1 scenario to prove who is objectively stronger. Your comparison seems to be completely unrelated, as we're talking about entirely different concepts.

Like I said, I'm not saying DBM itself is bad. It's really fucking impressive to see how long it's been going on for, not to mention the amount of effort that's been put into it. That said, the material it deals with is the worst thing this fanbase has to offer. Powerlevel-centric writing, specifically about two characters fighting, has a tendency to spark some of the most vile and pathetic shit you can find. It's why I mentioned Broly right off the bat, because we've all seen that shit, and it's the greatest example of powerlevel pandering in DBM. They've made cool stuff, I'll give them that, but these fights are what sparked DBM, and they are ultimately what it is at its core.
>>
>>135962536
Oh I know what killed me was how much they played up the fact the he was absolutely butt bombarded and later on how integral it is to SSJ
>>
>>135962735
Ohhhhhhh I see what your'e saying now. Fair enough man.
>>
>>135945683
Actually toriyama came out with the idea of SSJs being just blond because it was easier to draw and required less effort on his part (no need to ink the hair), saving him money and time
>>
>>135954699
She sounds so... Grandma like when she is talking normally
also vegita's VA is a GDILF
>>
>>135958633
Vegito going anything higher than super saiyan would be superfluous. He's already super fucking strong. Why would he need to power up more?
>>
>>135937742
The hair of a saiyan is like a limb, it doesn't grow normally like human hair.
I think SS3 doing that was cool, and it's reminiscent of that buffed Super Saiyan 1 form that grew your muscles but made you slow, SS3 being a boost to all your power but sapping stamina quickly.
>>
>>135963032
Yeah, it's tough not to come across as a dick around here all the time. I really do respect the guys who make it, as they genuinely care about what they do. It's paid off for the most part, as it's certainly far more inventive than typical fanfiction. I'm glad you and others enjoy it. I just can't get behind it due to the premise itself.
>>
>>135964190
Nah nah man I understand you completely. If the premise wasn't your thing, then there's nothing to be done. How do you feel about the tournament about to happen in Super?
>>
>>135964313
I'm one of the guys around these parts not completely hating the last two movies, so I'm looking forward to seeing what they bring to the table. New characters are involved, which is definitely a good thing and brings a fresh sense of adventure. We're finally seeing that new guy Beerus mentioned in action, and we're presumably getting some strongest equivalents from an entirely separate universe, meaning we're definitely in for some new shit.

To top it all off, we're getting a new frieza-buddy as well as another top-tier saiyan fighter, one of the tiny-tot variety from a different world. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't curious to see what their differences are. I just hope the anime can keep up with decent animation this time around.

Finally, Piccolo is in. That's always a good thing.
>>
>>135938773
this
>>
>>135964641
It's good to see I'm not alone, I very much enjoyed both movies as well.
I'm curious to see how the arc will play out, if anything will interrupt the tournament and where it will go from there.
How do ya feel about Gohan being left out? And do you think Piccolo will receive an actual "power up" or just be stronger through training?
>>
>>135964127
Super saiyan 3 to me was always just the saiyan equivelent of 100% Freeza. Like it's super strong but because of the energy it takes to maintain you're almost better off just sticking to 1 or 2.
>>
>>135964773
Once again, one of the few not hating Gohan around here. Disappointed to see he's still just a shitty jobber now, but not at all surprised.

I sincerely hope that Piccolo is simply stronger now through training. One point I'd like to make is that he's definitely been training since Cell's defeat, and while that didn't put him anywhere near close enough to fight Buu, it's certainly something we never got to explore. He's obviously been training since Buu went down, too, so I expect we'll at least see him far beyond what he was during the Android saga. Definitely gonna job for Goku n' Geets, but should be fun to see him relevant again.
>>
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>>135965027
I'm also excited for Piccolo. I think the best thing is that, even if Piccolo isn't as strong as the others, He's still strong. Yamcha's always been the weakest but I can't say I didn't enjoy any of his World Tournament fights. Hell, even Chaozu's fight was really good and he's the least relevant character in the whole manga.
>>
>>135955162
those were neanderthal brows.
>>
>>135965371
Piccolo might whip out his old Super Namek form.
>>
>>135965371
Sorry, but Yamcha never won my heart. Outside of his first appearance, he's pretty much always been a running gag.

See, Krillin jokes are almost always made by people that only watched DBZ and nothing else, yet he's definitely one of the best characters in the series and his actions reflect this. Piccolo remains badass and relevant for most of the run from his initial appearance onward, creating new techniques and getting some pretty cool fights along the way.

Then there's Yamcha, the bandit with no social skills that tried his damn hardest to get good, but ultimately fell short at every turn. The guy could never catch a break and likely never will. As if being the crew's original jobber bitch wasn't enough, he's never won an actual fight, died first to the Saiyans by the hands of a cabbage patch kid, and lost his girlfriend to the guy that came to his planet to kill everyone. Yamcha is a good guy and a great friend, no doubt about that. He is not, however, a worthy adversary.

Tenshinhan, on the other hand, is a total fucking badass that deserves to resurface. He and/or Krillin need to put in some god damn effort and unlock Super Human already. Too bad they'll never be anything more than cheerleaders ever again.
>>
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>>135964190

Not sure if you've read all of multiverse but I was wondering what you think of XXI (the OC character) and him taking out Vegito early.

Also what do you think of the flash back side chapters. (personally I don't link em, but some of them don't involve a bunch of power level stuff; so maybe that's why some people like em?)
>>
>>135966785
XXI? Best possible move. They realized just how polarizing Vegito was for their community, so they made a choice and removed him for the time being. I can absolutely respect that decision, as he's pretty much every complaint I made tied up in one convenient little package. If they bring him back, fine. I'm cool with him being taken out, though.

As for the flash backs and such, they're mostly dancing somewhere between above average to mediocre. Pretty sure most people agree there.

XXI himself isn't much of a character at this point, is he? Has he even done much outside of flip off all the Vegito fans?

To be honest, all the original characters thus far have been alright at best. At least a few have offered some interesting new things to the table. The super tech guys with the energy beams and swords seem to be quite strong, and it's interesting to see them getting by, considering how they're entirely dependent on their technological lead to succeed.
>>
ITT: 90s nostalgia fags fan wank over the Japanese Rob Liefeld fan art.

SS4 was just complete shit.

Pink fur? Dark bags/mascara outlines for the eyes? Just why?
>>
>>135967291
You're not wrong. It seems that a bunch of GT apologists have crawled out of the woodwork recently to swarm the latest DBS threads in hopes of swaying public opinion to their side.

You'll never get all of us, you GT terrorists. America never forgets.
>>
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>>135959817
You rang?
>>
>>135967435
This is far funnier than it has any right to be.
>>
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>>135967435
>SSGSS4
Say no more senpai
>>
>>135967371
I think it's less GT apologists, and more so that DBS isn't much better than Super like it was supposed to be.

GT ain't great. In fact, I'd say it's bad. But there's still alot of things it's doing better than DBS, and Superfriends can't stand the idea of people not accepting that Super isn't breaking new models, and isn't just pushing a tired series over the hill again.

You call me when Goku and now HIS BEST BATTLE BUDDY, VEGETA aren't the only ones to do anything in the series, eh?
>>
>>135942792
>I personally would have been happy if the original god form had a proper reason for existing outside of "happy good guy teamwork power up." It felt forced and unimaginative
It doesn't help that it's the same shit they pulled off in the goddamn Brolly movie, but this time they called it a super form.

The nature of it is more of an asspull than SSJ4 is, honestly. It sure is great that an unborn fetus could help in an ancient ritual to power up Saiyans to the level of gods? Even for DBZ, this is fucking nuts
>>
>>135962536
>Even when Goku's originally fighting Freeza he was enjoying himself until shit got to real and people he cared about started dying.
Yeah, and then after Krillin died, he was pretty dedicated to the killing Freeza thing until he literally got bored of smacking him around.
>>
>>135964773
I'm glad they left Gohan out, and I say this as someone who's been a fan of him since Toonami. If they're just going to have him get beaten up, I'd rather he just not be there. I'm honestly expecting him to be a getting beaten up by some villain when they come back to push the story along. He's the new Yamcha, and my heart is broken.

I'm glad Piccolo is there, but I don't have enough faith in this series to think that he's there fore anything other than jobbing. Because if he doesn't lose, that means that Vegeta or Nipples is going to have to lose. Nipples isn't going to lose, because weh ave to have the dumb looking character be strong, and they already announced that they wouldn't be jobbing Vegeta anymore.

So unless Vegeta is shown to be stronger and somehow gets tricked out of his win, it's up to Buu and Piccolo to take the fall.
>>
>>135969466
Let's face it. Goku is not a killer. Has he killed before, or at least thought he killed someone? Certainly, but he likely thinks little or nothing of it. Does he go out of his way to kill? Absolutely not, and it's definitely a problem he's had over the years.

In the case of Frieza, he initially fought with the intent to kill, driven by rage and the desire for revenge. As the fight went on, his old senses steadily came back. Even with his anger still present, he felt no reason to continue, as it would only contribute to more mindless violence. He likes to fight worthy opponents, and Frieza, at that moment, was anything but.

Like, holy shit. Goku just doesn't know when to end the fight. Even when he does, he just leaves them sitting there, fully capable of getting back up and fucking shit up again. Just look at

>Piccolo
>Vegeta
>Frieza
>Cell
>Buu
>Frieza AGAIN

I mean, those are the major occurrences. Most of these end up backfiring hardcore. Piccolo was a potential threat that paid off. Vegeta killed several of his friends and countless other races, but they're buddies now so whatever. Frieza was the biggest tyrant in the galaxy and killed his best friend in cold blood. Goku left him with his own sparing energy, but at least he ended up "finishing" him off. Cell can be disputed, as he couldn't beat him on his own, but christ, the man left the world's most dangerous villain for his prepubescent son to deal with. Buu kills everyone. Frieza has him shot like a bitch, then also kills everyone.

Face it, people. This is not a smart man.
>>
>>135969165
For me it feels like both of them suffer from bad writing but on the opposite ends of the spectrum.
GT takes itself too seriously.
Super doesn't take itself seriously enough. And honestly I prefer a Dragonball series that doesn't take itself as seriously. The problem is Toei isn't putting have the effort into it as GT because it seems even the ANIMATORS and WRITERS are taking it seriously. Like I honestly don't mind RoF but that shit works best as a movie or at MOST a 3-4 episode filler That just has cool fights and Freeza and Goku fight again. The fact that they're dragging it out is baffling.
>>
>>135955162
It's to make him look monkeylike.
>>
SSJ4 > SSJ > SSJ2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SSJ3 > shit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SUPERSAIYANGODSUPERDUPERSAIYAN
>>
>>135970102
Yeah. Goku's not a bleeding heart or anything but if you're a strong opponent he doesn't wanna just kill you unless you're a threat that NEEDS to be stopped immediately, Like Demon King Piccolo, Freeza and Cell. If Goku can he'll keep you alive so he can get those rematches.
>>
>>135934122
I'm going to let you in on a secret, OP:

They still like Super Saiyan 4. They give it to Broly and Gohan.

But Super Saiyan God is the stronger form. In the thing that actually matters, Dragon Ball Heroes, God forms and characters are far stronger than Super Saiyan 4. And while Gohan and Broly get Super Saiyan 4, the most important characters of Heroes, the avatars, are going for God.
>>
>>135971336
>im fucking autistic
it's okay buddy, we're here for you
>>
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>>135971469
If he could Goku probably would have done this with Cell.
>>
SSJ4 was never defeated by a laser, so SSJ4.
>>
>>135971890
>SSJ4 was never defeated by a laser
Correct.

Super Saiyan 4 was defeated by buildings.
>>
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>>135971826
>>
>>135971957

Honestly I think SSJ4 is better solely because of x10 Kamehameha
>>
>>135948780
thats not ssj2

hair not diff

no lightning
>>
>>135971957
You have a proof or just your imagination?
>>
>>135972232
It's in the Monkey Trouble Baby Vegeta Rumble, Super Saiyan 4 Goku gets his ass kicked when a building falls on him, then the other Saiyans have to heal him by holding hands and sharing Ki. Pretty sure that's how it went down.

He also got beaten out of Super Saiyan 4 by that electric Shenron thing. You know, the one beaten by rain?
>>
>>135971844
isn't thousands of innocent people part of cell by then? they can't let him live
>>
>>135972405
Dragon Balls, apparently. See 17 and 18 there?
>>
>>135972405
Reminder that Goku is dumb.

Or not exactly dumb. Selfish is a better word. Goku wants strong opponents to fight and is too confident in his own power to believe that maybe keeping an evil bastard alive for better training is endangering literally everyone on Earth.
>>
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>>135972162
Can I just say Super saiyan 2 is the most unnecessary distinction? When Gohan beat cell I wasn't really thinking "Gohan's a super saiyan 2/He's some ultra super saiyan!" and just thought it was Gohan himself pulling out the full potential of the super saiyan form. Like everyone was trying to surpass super saiyan and Gohan just stayed super saiyan and kept unleashed his natural potential.
BUT NOPE.
Turns out it's a separate form and the only way to tell if someone's in this form is just lightning and SLIGHTLY spikier hair. I dunno. It just seems like an unnecessary form to distinguish. I'm not at all surprised Toriyama forgot it.
>>
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>>135972061
Super Cyan has God Kamehameha

https://youtu.be/tMnOAfUU_BI?t=3m57s
>>
>>135972575
I don't think it was given the name of Super Saiyan 2 until it showed up in the Buu Saga. And people were preoccupied with watching this ten year old brutally tear apart Cell like it was nothing to give it a name.

The problem with SS2 is that after Cell Saga Gohan, the people that transformed didn't have a distinctive enough look. Vegeta's hair didn't change at all, Gohan got a longer bang and more of Goku's hair stuck up. Compared to the very drastic hair style change in the Cell Saga, it's just harder to differentiate.
>>
>>135970102
Kid Goku is fucking monster in the Red Ribbon arc.
>>
>>135972713
Fun fact: it was actually called Super Saiyan (Grade) 5 before the Buu Saga. Buff form was Super Saiyan (Grade) 2. Buffest form was 3. Full Power was 4.
>>
>>135972364
which episode? I think you just need to rewatch because i believe there is no such a thing.
>>
>>135972727
That's because none of them were strong enough to come back and challenge him. If you're evil and not challenging then he'll just kill you without a second thought.
>>
>>135945916
>and it was impactful when no one could transform and it was weird as fuck
Except when Vegeta transformed 2 seconds later.
Kaio Ken's not a transformation btw.
And I would rather have Super Saiyan God than Super Saiyan 4. It would be too bland for there to be "lol ye bruh just another super say'n level no big deal". It's refreshing that they have a different kind of transformation, not just the same copy paste bullshit. The only redeeming factor about SSJ4 was its design
>>
>>135972713
>>135972575
Technically the only true SSJ2 was Goku.

Gohan was rage + super saiyan

Vegeta was super saiyan + babida majik

Goku was the only one to get to it via normal means.
>>
>>135972874
rage+super saiyan is still normal means. By that logic neither Goku nor Vegeta are Super Saiyans
>>
>>135972807
37 or 38 of GT, when Baby is beating on Goku with his giant monkey. Uub tries to be useful that episode and manages it for all of like 2 minutes.
>>
>>135972874
I always thought that was the thing about SS2. That you had to be really fucking angry to achieve it. Angrier than the standard SS. Honestly, I kinda wish that they'd kept that. There's no reason not to use SS2 over SS as it's a flat upgrade, no matter what bullshit Toriyama spews about it having worse energy consumption. The whole point about SS2 was that it was a perfect improvement. But, if it had the flaw of only being accessible when you're angry, it'd make more sense for Super Saiyan to be used over it.

Also, Vegeta got it legit at some point, he was using it in the fight with Kid Buu on the Kai planet.
>>
You are stupid and not even watching. Goku at that state cannot even blast single one ki blast because he has no ki stated by goku and the old kai. goku ssj 4 at full power/ healthy over powered by huge gap the golden monkey. you annoy me by being not watching. I don't need to even check the episode to say you're ultimately wrong you probably not even watching. You annoyed me suit yourself
>>
>>135973471
Super Saiyan 4 honestly looks weaker than Super Saiyan 1 most of the time in GT.
>>
>>135973515
I don't give a fuck just don't waste my time with your stupid bullshit like you do now .
>>
>>135973592
Damn senpai you seem upset.
>>
>>135973036
He was continuosly being punched by golden monkey with no ki all at do you even watching. As stated in the anime super baby vegeta 2 is the strongest ki ever. so not even beerus or whis can dream to defeat super baby vegeta 2.
>>
>>135973965
> at all
>>
>>135966785
XXI is obviously the main villain, since he has shenron from his world enslaved.
I doubt he's Cell, as he wouldn't have to ask how to beat Android 18.
from the looks of his scales though, he's definitely an original design, as that doesn't match toriyama's style at all. My guess is that it's an existing villain with a new form. He desperately wants to hide his true power, which suggests that his ordinary self is enough to freak most of the fighters out.
He can't be some transformed namek either, as he has too many fingers for that.
We've also seen almost all of the movie villains, except for Turles (I think) the monster from world's strongest, Garlic and Slug.
So it's possible it'll be garlic, since his plot relates to Shenron, and he already transforms.
His true self seems to have glowing circular eyes though, and that's the kicker. Is he another dragon? A fallen one perhaps? Maybe he's an oni?

Of course, a lot of people think he's just another form of Cell, since his name is XXI, but why wouldn't cell absorb 18 then?
>>
>>135973965
GT doesn't count anymore though. It was retconned.
>>
>>135974095
No such a thing The director of DB recently said that super happened before GT. super saiyan god and ssgss is transformation before ssj 4. so it's certain ssgss is much weaker.
>>
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>>135974213
Boy you're just full of misinformed nonsense. I'm sorry.

You know GT lies to you, right?
>>
>>135973081
I always thought Super saiyan form was just...once you do it once you know how to do it whenever you want. So even though Vegeta cheated to become a super saiyan 2, now that he's done it he can access it whenever he wants.
>>
>>135974283
That is true just google the interview is around october and november 2015. I'm done here. You're just using your imagination as source and i'm not kind enough now to waste my time now, m8.
>>
>>135972777
I've read this before, do you have a source?
>>
>>135974283
You need to look yourself in the mirror before talking. Defeated by building? not even monkey baby use building to harm goku. Your imagination running so wild and random prolly to annoy people.
>>
>>135974309
If that was the case, Gohan'd still be able to easily access Super Saiyan 2 despite being a little bit out of practice. But he could only transform using the anger he had from Videl getting fucked up.

Unless he was SS2 during the fight with Dabura and his attack on the cocoon, but that's a whole different debate.
>>
>>135974483
Are you mentally unsound? You seem like you need help friend, this is just a manga/show you know
>>
>>135974413
>>135974483
The interview was poorly translated. Super is not a prequel to GT. Super Saiyan 4 Goku was fucked up pretty bad when a building fell on him in GT. Might have been in the Shadow Dragon fights, but it happened.

You're going to respond to this. I know you are.
>>
Will we see SSJ3 Vegeta in Super? He never did get a chance to obtain the form in Z and it would be nice.
>>
>>135974596
You need to look yourself in the mirror. if you want shitposting there is dedicated thread for that. >>>/s4s/ >>>/trash/ or just get >>>/out/
>>
>>135974697
I kinda hope we don't. It's unnecessary and to be completely honest, it's a shitty form for any sort of drawn out battle. Trunks is the only one to do the Buff Super Saiyan and Goku and Gotenks had Super Saiyan 3. It works for Gotenks because his transformation is so short anyway, and it works for Goku as a storytelling device for why he has no more time on earth and why he has no more energy for the final kid Buu fight. I dunno. I don't feel like Vegeta really needs a SSJ3 form.
>>
SSJG was proven to be more powerful than your shitty flamboyant non canon furry form.
>>
SS Blue > SS Red = SS Furry

Honestly, the blue drab is really good and the way the ki looks godly with the little bits of light floating is pretty cool. The red one is kind of shit though.
>>
>>135972575
Seriously has no one ripped the entire Dragon Ball digital colored manga yet?
>>
>>135972405
Vegeta has destroyed entire planets over his lifetime.
>>
>>135972641
>Super Cyan
You got me
>>
SSJ4 is laser proof. So SSJ4.
>>
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Did anyone actually like the way SSG looked?
>>
>>135978564
I didn't like the shape of Goku's eyes while in SSG
>>
SSJ4 won't ever get killed by a grunt, so SSJ4.
>>
So how exactly do they explain Vegeta reaching SSJGSS when he never turned into a God and got used to the power?
>>
>>135977341
>>135978813
But it got defeated by buildings.
>>
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>mfw people think vegitto is stronger than kid buu
>>
>>135972405
Vegeta slaughtered a namekian village and ordered nappa to blow up a city.
>>
>>135979433
Kid Buu was only as strong as SSJ3 but with infinite stamina.
>>
>>135964028
He was literally making up powers and attacks nobody seen before like Gotenks, only 10x better. Jesus I remember watching Mystic Gohan, thinking "they can't go beyond that" Then Buutenks wrecks him, and Buuhan was supposed to be the pinnacle. Then this flamboyant fucker Vegito emerges and powerlevels go to hell entirely.
>>
SSGSS is the weakest SSJ form, weaker than SSJ1 because it can't take a laser blast.
>>
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The animation in episode 26 was just utter shit.

I'm so glad that the BDs so far have fixed all of the shitty QUALITY of DBS.
>>
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>GT
>Canon
>Even worth discussing

/a/'s standards have dropped pretty badly lately

>a SSJ transformation that literally makes magic clothes appear from nowhere

Seriously. Rewatch the clip where Vegeta loses SSJ4, he grows clothes again from fucking nowhere. The same clothes he lost when he transformed to ape mode.

Stupid and fucking ridiculous. GTfags need to take their fanfiction and fuck off.
>>
Someone post that Nate webm from episode 26 please.
>>
>>135959847
yeah youre wrong, there are 12 physical universes in the super world, and presumably also 12 in the GT world.
>>
>>135972874
no, gohan was SSJ2, made it clear in the buu saga when he went SSJ2 a few times.
>>
>>135934122
>dominates the revived Pinky-Pie Saiyan form
It it was actually Pinkie Pie style, Goku would be fucked.
But yeah, it was a shit and underwhelming form.
>>
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>GT
>Canon
>Even worth discussing

/a/'s standards have dropped pretty badly lately

>a SSJ transformation that literally makes magic clothes appear from nowhere

Seriously. Rewatch the clip where Vegeta loses SSJ4, he grows clothes again from fucking nowhere. The same clothes he lost when he transformed to ape mode.

Stupid and fucking ridiculous. GTfags need to take their fanfiction and fuck off.
>>
Golden Freeza is great, I really like the look.
>>
>>135981938
>/a/'s standards
>taling about DB in the first place
My ironing heart.
>>
>>135981761
More like
>everyone is fucked
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqVVtaWd8Pw
>>
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>>135979433
>kid Buu
>stonger than Buuhan
Thread replies: 224
Thread images: 41

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