Is there any way he could have won the Holy Grail?
>>135760946
He just wanted to play in a hardcore magical tournament.
He had no chance against those other cheaters.
>>135761085
>cheaters
But his team was also cheating!
>>135760946
Why was he killed?
He posed no threat to Kiritsugu or anybody at all near the end, and I thought Kiritsugu only killed people if it was for the greater good.
He just wanted to escape with his lover.
>>135761526
Edgemiya gotta edge, nothing personal.
>>135760946
Faster wheels.
>>135761526
Psshh....nothing personnel, mage
Was he being cucked by Lancer?
>>135763898
No. Because that would imply that Lancer got lucky.
No.
In the Fourth Holy Grail War, the following strategy would insure the absolute victory of Team Lancer:
Kayneth must not let his Servant recognize such things as honour on the battle field or knights' pride. He must let Diarmuid realize that the Holy Grail War was merely dirty chores that needed to be done.
In order to fulfill the previous item, Kayneth must avoid any contact between Diarmuid and Saber with his best effort.
In combat, Kayneth must prioritize securing an exit. In a battle, missions would be considered accomplished if Diarmuid scored one hit with Gae Buidhe. Repeat this tactic, and exhaust all hostile teams.
Capitalize on Team Berserker. Team Berserker was a powerful enemy against all other teams, but Lancer had an advantage due to compatibility. It would be optimal to let Berserker destroy the other teams and reach the finale. He could then be defeated at that point.
>>135760946
1) Ditch the bitch
2) Prevent Deermud from fighting Saber in his first encounter and becoming obsessed with muh honorable duel.
3) Don't seek more command spells
3) Ally with Lancelot to get rid of the other servants, supporting Kariya so he doesn't die.
4) Kill Lancelot at the very end, since Lancer is his worst match up.
According to Zero Material, he did have a shot at winning the war.
Is Deermud the EMIYA of the 4th HGW?
>>135763989
Would probably work if not for Gilgamesh.
>>135764248
Read Zero Material. Diarmuid could have won if Kayneth used a different strategy, that includes getting rid of Gil.
>>135764248
That's "absolute victory", pal. Not "high likelihood of success" or "everything except..."
Diarmuid + Lancelot can beat Gil, apparently. Presumably when he's too busy posturing about mongrels.
>>135764348
Yes I know what it says, but I still don't buy that they could get rid of Gil that way.
>>135764444
Quads confirm.
Lancelot has a decent counter for GoB and Vimana, and Diarmuid specializes in defeating strong enemies who relies on powerful NPs with his strategy.
Also, GoB spam probably can't do much against Lancer's A+ agility and EotM True combo.
>>135764444
Well If you say so.
>>135764612
>Lancelot has a decent counter for GoB and Vimana
We've been through this a thousand times already, no he does not.
Though I imagine that Kayneth would be able to kill Tokiomi (or Kirei) and take out Gil that way.
>>135764636
Nasu says so:
>Depending on his strategy, it's even possible that he could have won the entire Fourth Holy Grail War
It's probably not a big chance, but the possibility of him winning the war is there.
>>135764742
Yes, i give up. To be honest his chances are probably higher then Shirou's in the fifth war.
>>135764740
>no he does not
>Lancelot totally didn't destroy Vimana and used Gil's NP rain against him
>>135764740
It's probably something along the lines of "let Saber kill Dr. Gil, then take her out" than it is fighting Gilgamesh directly.
>>135764850
>used Gil's NP rain against him
For a few seconds when Gil wasn't even trying, yes.
>>135764925
Enough to give Diarmuid an opening and slash right through Gil's armor.
Diarmuid vs. Cu, who wins?
Diarmuid vs. Medusa, who wins?
Diarmuid vs. EMIYA, who wins?
Diarmuid vs. Sasaki, who wins?
All I learned from fate/zero is that any "great" mage from a good family is just a hack.
>>135760946
how different would be his performance in the war if he summon iskandar in first place.?
>>135765167
But Gil's armor is not made out of magic like Sabers, It's an actual noble phantasm.
And even Excalibur can't cut through that armor, what makes you think Diarmuid can?
>>135763989
>>135764011
These two nailed it. Since Diarmuid got the short straw, being knigtly, pure and just and still killed for the hell of it, his true potential will never be show or known. He still managed to fuck all the rest up by cursing the grail. He still hurt Saber pretty good. Diarmuid had all the potential and simply got a bad master/servant match.
>>135764129
No
>>135764855
I would love to see that and I think it might have worked. Diarmuid is the most underappreciated servant in any Fate series.
>>135763922
>>135763898
He isnt't interested in anyone except for Saber (but probably only in a professional manner), but bitches want him because of Irish curse love-spot thingy. His curse follows him: always accused for doing nothing and not getting a fair trial or setting or romantic interest ever.
>>135764569
Gil is far from invicible. He gets killed by children in every route of FSN.
>>135765250
Cu
Medusa
EMIYA
Sasaki
Diarmuid is shit compared to most servant in both wars.
>>135765250
Not Deermud because he sucks and is a bitch
>>135765250
Diarmuid in all cases.
>>135765425
>And even Excalibur can't cut through that armor,
Zerofag secondaries, everyone.
>>135765250
>Diarmuid vs. Cu, who wins?
Diarmuid if Cu isn't bold enough to NP as soon as possible. Probably Cu otherwise, but maybe not (depends on if Diarmuid can prevent Gae Bolg's activation with Gae Dearg).
>Diarmuid vs. Medusa, who wins?
Diarmuid is a slayer of warriors, not of monsters. There is no way he could possibly handle Pegasus. Additionally, his magical energy (D rank) is far too low to prevent Cybele from petrifying him. Overwhelming Medusa victory.
>Diarmuid vs. EMIYA, who wins?
Complicated. Depends on if Gae Dearg dispels projections. Probably Diarmuid if so, probably EMIYA if not. Could go either way in any case due to sheer unpredictability of both's fighting styles.
>Diarmuid vs. Sasaki, who wins?
If it's on Kojirou's anti-servant battleground, Kojirou either fights to a draw or wins.
>>135765446
>He still managed to fuck all the rest up by cursing the grail
No he did not.
>>135761526
>took away the thing that a man lives for not to mention what he uses for a living
>took away the love of his life
>took away his chances to have his wish granted
>took away his fucking legs
yea sure lets leave this man of wealth alive and means, what could go wrong
>>135765480
>Diarmuid is shit compared to most servant in both wars.
Diarmuid has the edge against Cu, according to Nasu. Cu can only beat him for sure in Ireland, because he has shitty master support.
>>135765446
>He still managed to fuck all the rest up by cursing the grail
>>135765446
>He still managed to fuck all the rest up by cursing the grail
Is this what secondaries believe? shit man...
>>135765512
That's not the scene I was talking about. That was an Excaliblast at point blank range. Are you implying that Diarmuid has anything even close to that up his sleave?
I was talking about when Saber was waling at him and he just casually deflected the blows with his hand.
>>135765742
>>135765595
>>135765551
samefag, please. we got it the first time.
So Zero is pretty edgy, right? Compared to the rest of the Fate/ series, at least?
>>135765688
>Saber was waling at him and he just casually deflected the blows with his hand
That was Invisible Air, and Saber was being cautious. READ THE FUCKING VN.
Also:
>Implying Shirou Saber is as good as Diarmuid without using Excalibur.
This is your last (you), Secondary-kun. Go read the VN.
>>135765797
>implying
If I actually was samfaging I would at least have been consistent and used a bait picture in all posts
>http://exhentai.org/g/888223/072041dd1c/
>still not scanned
Even I had a better chance.
>>135765849
The LN is supreme edge
>/r/ing Kiristugu's burgers
>>135765548
>Gae Dearg dispels projections
Who the fuck came with this retarded idea?
>That red spear can cut off prana. Nevertheless, it's not so powerful that it could break or cancel the source of the magecraft. Saber's armor is still fine, and Invisible Air is still functioning correctly. The spear is effective only the instant it hits the blade.
You fuckers need to read Zero. Gae Drearg can't even dispel Saber's generic prana armor of Invisible Air.
>>135765884
>netori
nice
>>135766080
Now post one of the Kuuru scenes
>>135766074
Projections collapse whenever the image created by the caster's mind doesn't match the item that exists in the world.
Disrupting them at all, even momentarily such as by making contact with Gae Dearg, should make them crumble into magical energy.
But it won't, say, destroy Unlimited Blade Works if he deploys the bounded field.
>>135766224
>Disrupting them at all, even momentarily such as by making contact with Gae Dearg, should make them crumble into magical energy
Citation fucking needed.
Gae Drearg's anti magic is not neatly as powerful as shit like Rule Breaker. If it can't dispel weak-ass magic like Invisible Air or Saber's armor, it sure as hell can't dispell shit that directly comes from a Reality Marble, magecraft so complicated it's close to being True Magic.
We've never seen Archer having any sort of trouble sustaining a projection, that image bullshit happens to Shirou only, and when he's still learning how to use his skills.
>>135765860
>That was Invisible Air
Invisible Air makes Sabers sword invisible. It is not a different sword and it does not make it any weaker.
>Saber was being cautious
Irrelevant to the point. She was trying to kill him and he stood there and took it casually.
>Implying Shirou Saber is as good as Diarmuid without using Excalibur.
Yes? Saber's stats are still relatively high even under Shirou. Diarmuid has better agility but that's it.
Maybe you should read the VN.
And this is all beside the point of the original question, which was about Diarmuid cutting thorough Gil' armor.
>>135766561
>Citation fucking needed.
Fate/Stay Night itself. It's how projections work. Once the illusion that exists doesn't match the illusion that is thought of, they fall to bits. Tohsaka's explanations. It's why Shirou's swords evaporate after getting scratched.
>Gae Drearg's anti magic is not neatly as powerful as shit like Rule Breaker. If it can't dispel weak-ass magic like Invisible Air or Saber's armor, it sure as hell can't dispell shit that directly comes from a Reality Marble, magecraft so complicated it's close to being True Magic.
It wouldn't be dispelling them directly, it would be disrupting them momentarily, then they fall apart on their own because projection is fragile like that.
>We've never seen Archer having any sort of trouble sustaining a projection, that image bullshit happens to Shirou only, and when he's still learning how to use his skills.
Archer loses dozens of swords in his exchange against Cuchulainn.
>>135763792
This.
>>135761272
He didn't cheat hard enough.
>>135766561
>Gae Drearg's anti magic is not neatly as powerful as shit like Rule Breaker. If it can't dispel weak-ass magic like Invisible Air or Saber's armor, it sure as hell can't dispell shit that directly comes from a Reality Marble, magecraft so complicated it's close to being True Magic.
Projection is literally just shaping magical energy and pretending it's real. It's not complex at all. That's why it's utter shit for most magi.
Shirou's swords are just because Shirou is really, really good at pretend swords. But it's still just magical energy, the very thing that Gae Dearg severs.
You complain it can't deal with the C rank Invisible Air, yet it perfectly and instantly deals with the A++ Knight of Honor.
>>135760946
What's his name again?
>>135765551
Did we watch the same show?
>>135766831
First, Tohsaka doesn't know shit about Shirou's projection. Illya proves this in HF.
Second, Shirou is not Archer. He has trouble mantaining projections because he is an amateur that didn't even know the true nature of his magic.
Third, and most important, you need to post proof that Gae Drearg affects projections that way. The mechanics of Archer's projections are vague as fuck, since he showed that he can sustain the image of projections that are almost completely destroyed beyond recognition just fine. Rho Aias is the ultimate proof of this.
>Archer loses dozens of swords in his exchange against Cuchulainn
He was getting disarmed, it has nothing to do with the projection's images. The projections never gave away because he lost focus, they were being physically shattered by sheer strength or taken out of his hands.
>>135767224
Odds of secondary: 20%
Odds of baiting: 80%
>>135767224
I don't think one guy's death curse affected the Holy Grail.
>>135767224
>>135767101
>Projection is literally just shaping magical energy and pretending it's real. It's not complex at all. That's why it's utter shit for most magi.
Shirou doesn't actually do projections. Projection is a shit magic that's only temporary, acts as an overlay to existing objects, and is used for rituals. Shirou's projections violate the laws of equivalent exchange and could potentially stay in the world as long as he lives, like the stuff in his shed.
Shirou's only magic is UBW, it was mentioned a crapton of times everywhere. And that magic is some of the most complex shit you'll see among modern magi.
And Knight of Honor doesn't get affected by GD, it's the NPs it creates, which are very low rank, not A++.
>>135766831
Tohsaka didn't even realise the true nature of Shirou's "projections". They are not projections in sense of magi projections but something that is borderline true magic.
Again Shirou and Archer are tracing not projecting. Similar but different.
Cu was breaking them normally and occasionaly disarming.
>>135767262
>First, Tohsaka doesn't know shit about Shirou's projection. Illya proves this in HF.
It's still Gradation Air, just like his Strengthening is still the same magecraft.
It abides by the fundamental same property of shaping magical energy into a device.
>Second, Shirou is not Archer. He has trouble mantaining projections because he is an amateur that didn't even know the true nature of his magic.
Practice doesn't change this quality at all.
>Third, and most important, you need to post proof that Gae Drearg affects projections that way. The mechanics of Archer's projections are vague as fuck, since he showed that he can sustain the image of projections that are almost completely destroyed beyond recognition just fine. Rho Aias is the ultimate proof of this.
Gae Dearg interferes with patterns of magical energy and that's all that a projection is at its barest nature. Even created by Unlimited Blade Works, they are just magical energy.
>He was getting disarmed, it has nothing to do with the projection's images. The projections never gave away because he lost focus, they were being physically shattered by sheer strength or taken out of his hands.
And they immediately disintegrate. There are no swords littering the ground.
But I don't care about this enough to go further. Nasu could easily write it either way, there's plenty of space to justify it, and it could be denied in any case.
>>135767576
It is not Gradation Air, which refers to projection.
Shirou's and Archer's version is tracing. Its born out of their misunderstanding of the proper magecraft, which should be creating an object that would disappear some time after as its an phantasmal existence with no history. Tracing creates the items with "history", thus makes them permanent.
The only "projection" they use is when they are using the weapons without a fully realised UBW. Even then this is not a "projection" but "materialization" where the object they've originally traced remain in UBW and only it's phantasm is called but again once called those work as if they're the traced version.
>>135767506
>>135767572
>>135767962
Fate/Side Material disagrees with you.
It's the same as normal magecraft projection, just on an impossibly efficient level.
>Projection [Magecraft]
>Gradation Air.
>A sorcery that uses magical energy to materialize a mirror image of an object.
>As Rin mentioned in the story, it's not very efficient.
>That's because, if you're making a replica of something, rather than using projection it's easier and more practical just to gather the materials and build it yourself.
>Normally, it is only used to project a substitute for an item that has already been lost, and for just a few minutes within one's own time axis.
>At any rate, since Gradation Air is just supposed to be a short-term rental of the item's outward appearance, you can see why the version used by Shirou and Archer is completely ridiculous. It's no wonder that Rin wanted to kill him when she saw his shed.
>Of course, Shirou can only project things that are related to weapons in some way – or more specifically, swords. Modern weapons are off limits.
>Well, technically he can pull out shields or armor, too, if he strains himself to his utmost limits, but the effects only last for an instant and the cost is enormous.
>>135767576
>It abides by the fundamental same property of shaping magical energy into a device
Then it's just the same as Saber's armor, which can't be dispelled by Gae Drearg.
>Practice doesn't change this quality at all.
Dude, you need to back your shit up with quotes. This is downright wrong. Archer's skills are miles ahead of Shirou's, he could project K&B in his sleep, while Shirou almost killed himself every time he attempted a projection. Archer even mocks Shirou's projection skills in UBW.
>Gae Dearg interferes with patterns of magical energy and that's all that a projection is at its barest nature. Even created by Unlimited Blade Works, they are just magical energy
Saber's armor is the same, and even servants are just magical energy. You don't seem to get that Gae Drearg doesn't fucking dispel magical energy, it just weakens it's effects somewhat. Who even says that Gae Drearg's magic is stronger than UBW's magic? GD is a mundane NP, while UBW is all kinds of broken. Dispelling a common servant prana armor that isn't even a NP is easier than dispelling a prana Noble Phantasm, and Diarmuid can't even do that.
>And they immediately disintegrate
Citation needed. The VN doesn't say so.
Also, who says Archer isn't dispelling them on his own? why waste prana supporting broken sword shards?
>>135768139
>Also, who says Archer isn't dispelling them on his own? why waste prana supporting broken sword shards?
It doesn't cost magical energy to maintain a projection. All the magical energy is expended in their creation, then they persist wtih what they have.
>>135768263
Ok, but now address the rest of the post.
>>135767300
The Grail does things on a whim. Diarmuid literally wanted it to bring disaster on whoever touched it. It exploded in blood during Kirei's and Kiritsugu's fight before anyone even looked at it, and it did so while filling up with blood from the fallen servants - including Diarmuid's blood. Objections?
>>135768507
>>135768346
Projection skill quality don't change what projections are made of.
Even if he doesn't cause them to collapse, doesn't this just mean projections could not be used to block or parry Gae Dearg? Even if it just disrupts them for the single moment it makes contact. That's a lethal disadvantage for EMIYA in any case.
Also, if there were shattered swords littering the ground, Cu would have commented on that and not been confused about Archer's trickery. Also, the ufotable anime which was vetted by Nasu had them evaporating.
I've had enough, and I'm bailing on this thread in any case.
>>135766994
>other worlds
Isn't that only the second magic?
>>135767224
>>135768507
This is why newfags should be banned from /a/.
>>135768572
I think you mean filthy secondaries.
>>135768562
That'd be parallel worlds. "Other" worlds is merely extremely advanced magecraft, like Dark Sakura's womb realm mandala.
>>135764129
Did Diarmuid plant one right between Gil's eyes?
No because that would involve defeating Gil and losing goes against his character.
>>135768546
>Even if he doesn't cause them to collapse, doesn't this just mean projections could not be used to block or parry Gae Dearg?
We just don't know that.
>Even if it just disrupts them for the single moment it makes contact. That's a lethal disadvantage for EMIYA in any case.
I don't care, my point is that GD isn't stong enough to dispel magical constructs, let alone projections. This was proven by Zero and you failed do deliver convincing evidence that contradicts the LN.
>>135768668
That isn't canon.
>>135768668
Only in Fate/Zero's second route.
>>135768732
Go to bed, Gil.
>>135768668
Most satisfying scene in anime.
This is how every fujobait poorly written bad guy should go down.
>>135768689
> losing goes against his character.
Is that why he gets killed in every route?
>>135768787
B-BAKANA!
>>135768706
I for one don't fuss over such technicalities. The interaction wouldn't need to be breaking the projections, it'd be whether Archer could defend against Gae Dearg like he can against Gae Bolg. Whether his swords vanish or are just ignored but intact doesn't really matter.
>>135768849
>Whether his swords vanish or are just ignored but intact doesn't really matter.
Nothing matters when you can nuke your oponent and his master from 4km away.
Diarmuid just sucks against Assassin-like servants. He would even break GD if Archer asked for a fair duel.
>>135768787
>>135768795
>>135768820
He's fucking evil and he loves it. I cheered when I first saw his beatdown of Berserker animated in UBW and his screentime is always gold. He's arrogant but he's the most god damned powerful and wealthy being on the planet. Even if that arrogance wasn't completely justified (which it is) I'd still love him because arrogant characters that don't ever take it down a notch are just maddeningly entertaining to me. I flat out reject any scenario in FSN that involves him dying because it's out of character.
>>135768948
Beta male detected.
>>135768948
>I flat out reject any scenario in FSN that involves him dying because it's out of character.
Dude what
That's not how "out of character" works
>>135768921
Randomly adding advantages like that is against the spirit of a matchup and Diarmuid isn't that ridiculous about honor.
>>135760946
Maybe if he had summoned someone like Karna instead of some scrub tier cuck in a can it might have worked out better.
>>135768787
Meanwhile
>>135763922
Speaking of which, why didn't Diarmuid's charm magic work on Saber?
>>135769005
Did you miss the part when he literally broke GB so Saber could fight on equal grounds with him? he removed the disadvantage of Saber's injury AND removed his own advantage by losing one of his NPs.
Lancer wouldn't think it twice and just stop using GD, assuming it can even destroy projections, just to be able to match his skills against the guy who went toe to toe against Heracles, Cu Chulain and King Arthur.
>>135769226
He respected Artoria more than anyone else. Beyond that, it was for the goal of stopping Gilles. He wouldn't give that show of honor to just anybody at any time.
>>135769222
Seiba is too pure for his corrupt irish slut magics
>>135769226
>Did you miss the part when he literally broke GB so Saber could fight on equal grounds with him?
He broke it so Saber could use Excalibur on the gigantic tentacle rapist.
He was planning on pressing his hand advantage as hard as he possibly could in their duel.
>>135769332
>He was planning on pressing his hand advantage as hard as he possibly could in their duel
Citation needed.
>>135769311
Kek, she must have felt something since she at least was able to detect it.
>>135769222
A combination of Saber's A ranked magic resistance and Diarmuid's E ranked luck
>>135764248
>>135765446
The "This strategy would insure absolute victory" thing was straight from official interviews.
That's entirely official word on the subject.
>>135769362
Fate/Zero.
>It was a meticulous plan to use one of his two Noble Phantasms first, and cunningly lure his enemy into carelessness. Saber was not angry with the trick; rather, she eagerly wanted to applaud Lancer's scheme.
>This enemy is perfect.
>She encountered such a flawless enemy for the first battle of the Holy Grail War. As a warrior who lived by the sword, it was inevitable that her fighting spirit ascend to the skies when faced with a fabulous opponent. At the same time Diarmuid ua Duibhne, the one that stood opposing Saber, was also forcing himself to face her not only with tricks, but spending all of his wits on this ultimate battle.
>Lancer would have detected Saber's vigor without words. A satisfied grin seeped up Lancer's mouth. His heart felt the exact same way as Saber's did. Lancer respected Saber for sacrificing her left arm to block the surprise attack of his Gáe Buidhe that was unleashed for the kill. It added an extra sheen to the joy Lancer associated with the worth of winning this battle.
>As knights, the two Heroic Spirits even echoed each other on their souls' desire to do battle.
>"Prepare yourself, Saber, I will win this time."
>"Only if I do not win first, Lancer."
>The two exchanged their bold provocations as both planned their next, fatal attack, slowly and cautiously approaching the other.
>>135765348
No, Kayneth was truly a great magus, he's officially like five times the magus that Rin is according to interviews, but that doesn't really translate into battle ability necessarily.
Magus ability =/= Fighting ability
This is kind of a big thing
>>135769395
I'm inclined towards her resistance since his charm seems to work on every woman with none or very small knowledge of magic and/or magic resistance. But with E luck, Saber might as well be a muff diver
>>135769479
That was his first fight, moron. That's what you get for copypasting instead of actually reading the material.
>>135769222
>>135769553
It's a very weak curse to begin with. Irisviel was able to resist it, and Sola-Ui could have resisted it if she channeled her magical energy. She merely did not want to.
>>135769395
>Diarmuid's E ranked luck
He and Cu should have E- rank luck, or even less.
Archer has E rank luck and doesn't fuck up as bad as them, only in his fight with Rider. He even won the HGW in UBW (kinda).
>>135769565
What the fuck did you think I meant by "their duel"? I didn't say "their rematch". In any case, how would that change anything? He didn't break Gae Buidhe to level the playing field at all. He didn't want to level the playing field. Nothing ever implies as much, nor would he have broken Gae Buidhe to do so.
>>135765364
He'd been all out of Command spells in the first night
>>135769589
So you're saying Kayneth is a cuck too?
>>135769589
Was Sola-Ui a slut? Why would Kayneth give up so much to save someone who cheated on him?
>>135769589
Irisviel is a tool, not a woman. And certainly not you're waifu.
>>135769647
>>135769651
They're dubbed "Team NTR" for a reason.
>>135769631
That's because despite memes, luck doesn't actually determine how much you fuck up. Plenty of Servants with high luck still fail horribly.
>>135765446
>Diarmuid is the most underappreciated servant in any Fate series.
True, maybe is because Cu shines too much, or because the cuck meme
either way, being Diarmuid is suffering
>>135769744
Take a look at the EX ranked luck of Francis Drake!
>given an arrogant, ignorant child for a master
>knocked out in the first round by the shittiest master with a cripple servant who has no idea what he's doing
>>135769640
>He didn't break Gae Buidhe to level the playing field at all
Except he did. Remember how Saber tried to fight pretending she was still injured and he didn't want her to do so? I guess not.
He also didn't kill Kerry or Saber when they were helpless, and had to be ordered to fight with a command spell when Berserker showed up.
He is a moralfag whiteknight that loves honor, you're just arguing against the core of his character. His whole personal tragedy revolves around dishonoring his lord involuntarily because of his natural charm.
>>135769589
>She merely did not want to
>>135769945
>Except he did. Remember how Saber tried to fight pretending she was still injured and he didn't want her to do so?
Nigga that was days after Gae Buidhe was shattered. SHE was the one leveling the playing field on HIM, and he didn't want it. Did you forget literally everything?
>He also didn't kill Kerry or Saber when they were helpless, and had to be ordered to fight with a command spell when Berserker showed up.
Politeness.
>He is a moralfag whiteknight that loves honor, you're just arguing against the core of his character. His whole personal tragedy revolves around dishonoring his lord involuntarily because of his natural charm.
His character is not "break my fucking weapons for no reason to give you a fair shot". You don't have the slightest grasp on what honor means.
>>135769651
I really don't think she fucked Diarmuid. But if, it would be an unusual kind of man-rape
>>135769780
Indeed. In the right master/servant relationship I think Diarmuid could shine.
So is the HF movie still coming out this year?
>>135770028
I like you
Kayneth is the biggest bitch in zero. Sola ui clearly doesnt give a single shit about him and is on lancer's dick while 's crying over her.
>>135770206
2019
>>135769487
>Magus ability =/= Fighting ability
Kiritsugu vs Kayneth being an example
>>135770280
>>135770299
fuck
When's the movie gonna come out already. I want to see youtubers react to it
>>135770195
He and Kayneth would love to trade positions with Robin Hood and Dan Blackmore.
>>135770028
>Nigga that was days after Gae Buidhe was shattered
So? Saber starting the rematch injured and not being able to use her NP was a disadvantage, he did level the playing field.
Why do I bother, you obviously don't even get what honor means.
You didn't even read any of their dialogue during the fight and before.
>>135770392
>So? Saber starting the rematch injured and not being able to use her NP was a disadvantage, he did level the playing field.
That is not the reason he broke Gae Buidhe. It was a drawback for him that he considered worth the cost of victory. Read the fucking book.
>Why do I bother, you obviously don't even get what honor means.
>You didn't even read any of their dialogue during the fight and before.
Please, point out any line where he said "I broke my spear so you could fight me at full power", or anything even tangentially interpretable as that.
>>135770206
Why is Kirei so great?
Is because his seiyu?
He's always smug as fuck
>this happens
How many civilians die in the process of them winning?
>>135769862
She is called a top class servant for a reason, because her abilities really can accomplish miracles.
However it was noted that because her master was Shinji, she could not show any of her real ability there, and as a digression she couldn't really get into her "Challenge fate itself" mode because fighting a weak master like MC couldn't excite her in the end.
She can only show her true strength against an indomitable foe. After all El Draque is the one that beat the Invincible Armada in life, she only gets excited when its called impossible.
She likes being the underdog, not the top dog.
In the end her defeat came down to going up against the "player" at the start, since he know the player can't ever lose a game, and because her master was Shinji.
>>135770462
All of them
>>135770462
Shirou would spend his time trying to fix his dad. Expect long lectures followed by an emergency dropping out of the war/rescuing Illya, then seeking to dismantle the great grail before calamity strikes.
Archer could not possibly cause a self-destroying paradox in such a different universe, and he cannot take his anger out on a boy he doesn't even recognize, so he'd at least try to spare a version of himself his own fate.
>>135770444
Burden of proof is on you. Claiming Diarmuid fights without honor is as retarded as saying Gil takes his opponents seriously from the begining.
>>135770462
Poor compatibility in an odd sense, despite people maybe thinking they're superficially the same.
I'd say Robin Hood and Kiritsugu would work out far better.
Archer despite how he acts, is a lot softer than Kiritsugu, which would cause some strife as it goes along. Its noted even in the difference of Robin and EMIYA's fighting styles; Robin sets traps to kill people, EMIYA sets traps to disable or dissuade them.
>>135770530
Cheering you on anon
>>135770462
They win the war in first night
Shirou thricks Kiritsugu and destroys the grail before shits happens
He also tells to give a japanese ginger his crest
>>135770363
I like reactions
>>135770462
Someone needs to write this fan fic
>>135770458
His seiyuu certainly does help, but it's also because he's one of the few characters with a clear goal and does horrible things to others, with a smile, to make sure he reaches that goal.
>>135770526
>an emergency dropping out of the war/rescuing Illya
Wouldn't need to if he gets summoned in Einzbern german castle
>>135769780
What was the original cuck meme? I'm late to the party
>>135770530
Not the same guy, but..
Its said in that data books that if Diarmund had not met Saber like he did, then his deep rooted HONOR would not have awakened, and he would have fought more inline with Kayneth's expectations.
At his base self, Diarmund would not mind fighting without honor so much, but because he met Saber, he became an Honorfag during the 4th war.
In order to win the war with Diarmund, its noted in his entry he must not be allowed to meet with Saber, and he must simple understand that the grail war is a dirty deed that must be accomplished, rather than honorable fights.
>>135770530
Nobody is saying he fights without honor you dumb strawmanning shit.
It's just that "honor" does not mean "cripple myself for no reason whatsoever".
Saber was crippling herself because of her guilt that Diarmuid would break his weapon for the sake of victory. She was not crippling herself to give Diarmuid a fair chance, but to alleviate her own shame.
>>135770602
>fan fic
>>135770544
The closest we got of this is his black clothes in HA
They'd been enhanced into a suit now that I think of
>>135770622
Kirei is confirmed to be Lawful evil in HF
Based as fuck
>>135770544
>>135770702
Fate/Extra CCC has butler Archer briefly. It is sort of a suit.
>>135770702
>They'd been enhanced into a suit now that I think of
Really? don't remember it. Otherwise, he has this kind of butler outfit in CCC
>>135770783
Sadly not an actual costume for him.
>>135770671
>"cripple myself for no reason whatsoever"
Nobody is saying this, you dumb strawmanning shit.
>She was not crippling herself to give Diarmuid a fair chance, but to alleviate her own shame.
That's it. Read Fate/Zero and come back, secondary. We'll continue on another thread sometime after you get to know your source materials.
Are we just posting Archer in suits now?
>tfw you're Lancer cheerfully fishing then this mothefucker comes and disturbs you're hobby
>tfw you're Lancer and get your three schoolgirls but comes other Emiya and fucks up you're party because hot dogs
>>135767224
avenger of the einzberns fucked the grail... in the second war , newby, go read the sauces please
>>135770905
>he pirated his fishing gear
>and the jacket he wears to fish
>>135770905
>>135770964
>second war
it's the third war.
>>135770964
Wasn't it in the third grail war?
You know, with the two Saber's and that shit
>>135770964
Didn't the Einzberns fuck it up in the Third War by summoning Avenger/Angry Manjew? They expected the greatest evils of the world but got a weakass kid that died and corrupted the grail.
>>135770866
>Nobody is saying this, you dumb strawmanning shit.
Except you are claiming he'd shatter his weapon to give his enemy a fair fight. That is completely out of line.
>That's it. Read Fate/Zero and come back, secondary. We'll continue on another thread sometime after you get to know your source materials.
How about I quote it?
>Indeed, Lancer had once used the demonic lance Gáe Buidhe to seal the strength of Saber’s left hand, but in the battle against Caster last night, Lancer had destroyed the cursed yellow lance, proactively giving up the advantageous lead. But Saber’s pride would not settle for accepting Lancer’s concession, and so she intentionally did not use her left hand. This, then, was an action of true chivalry.
>But—even that concession that was noble enough to inspire instantaneous respect—Lancer did not welcome this action from his heart.
>If the action of casting away Gáe Buidhe had caused Saber unnecessary concern.
>From the final result, it meant that Lancer’s actions had dampened the enthusiasm of the showdown between the two. It was a battle in which both parties did not have any regrets, and used all their strength to face off, that Lancer had hoped for. If Saber had held back because she could not put aside her consideration of the fairness of circumstance, Lancer was truly somewhat uneasy about the battle.
>"—If you misunderstand, I will be very troubled. Lancer."
>As if having guessed what Lancer was thinking, Saber shook her head with a stern but calm expression.
>"If I were to use my left hand, my shame would definitely slow my sword. Facing your superb skills with the lance, this would be a fatal mistake."
>"Saber..."
>"So, Diarmuid, this is really the best strategy I use in order to put all my strength into bringing you down."
>>135771020
>two Saber's
As expected of the Edelfelts to cheat like that
Arthur get's summoned byKiritsuguinstead of Arthuria
>>135771102
Kiritsugu might be less butthurt and curbstomp the competition by actually cooperating with Saber.
>>135770874
>>135771082
It wasn't a cheat
it was noted they summoned a servant with that particular ability in a sense, a servant with that facet that made it into two servants.
Its not like we haven't seen that sort of thing before already.
>>135771052
Your own out of context quoute disproves you.
>Lancer did not welcome this action from his heart.
This is proof that he considered it fair that Saber fought with both hands intact.
>It was a battle in which both parties did not have any regrets, and used all their strength to face off, that Lancer had hoped for.
And because of that, he wanted Saber to be able to use her left hand to show all her fighting skills.
>"If I were to use my left hand, my shame would definitely slow my sword"
Hyperbole, by the way.
>>135771154
Someone's missing...
>>135771154
You know, if Archer and Lancer were bro's, they would be quite a pair of wingmans and fuck the whole city of Fuyuki in the 4 days of HA
Until Lancer get's close to Taiga
Then battle unfolds.
>>135770602
Fan fic... do you know nasu?
HE ALREADY DOES IT ! AND IS CANON
first he think "mh what if..."
And a week later come out a "fan fic" about Arcer alter and nice ass-Dark-rin
fan fic... please we will have probably one about shirou that summon Arcer, And i mean Emiya Kiritsugo who contracted the world!
Thread needs more Tesla
>>135771332
Yeah, Kojiro and Taiga deserves a spot in that image you know
>>135771020
Yeah, my bad i mistook the second world war with the second grail war, could happen
>>135771332
Yeah, where's Shinji?
>>135771291
>Your own out of context quoute disproves you.
That is literally the very context of their duel.
>This is proof that he considered it fair that Saber fought with both hands intact.
Yes. Because he accepted the cost of breaking Gae Buidhe.
>And because of that, he wanted Saber to be able to use her left hand to show all her fighting skills.
Yes. Because he accepted the cost of breaking Gae Buidhe.
What is this supposed to "prove"? He didn't break Gae Buidhe for her to fight at full power. He just honorably accepted her to fight at full power despite breaking Gae Buidhe. He did not expect, nor want, a concession. He still broke the weapon for a completely unrelated reason.
>Hyperbole, by the way.
The narration IMMEDIATELY follows up with confirming that.
>Shining in her eyes was only an awe-inspiring, coolly clear will to fight. There was no carelessness, nor was there hesitation.
>Perhaps to her, the extent of the injury to her left hand was only of secondary importance in battle. Perhaps the most important contributor to Saber’s ability to obtain victory was in the clear fighting spirit and passion for battle that had been honed to purity.
>To sever her confusion, she would rather give up her left hand—the pride hidden in her heart, then, was her greatest weapon.
Not hyperbole, not the character bluffing. Narration says "if she wasn't doing that, she actually would cripple herself harder than doing that".
>>135766631
It actually does make it weaker you fucking retard, by a massive margin.
>Fate/Zero Anime Visual Guide II:
>Higashide: Incidentally, does the sharpness of Excalibur vary when covered with and without Invisible Air?
>Nasu: It varies considerably. The destructive power of this golden version is overwhelmingly superior. If the power when in Invisible Air is 80-90, the golden version is about 1000.
東出：ところで、エクスカリバーって風王結界をまとっているのと、まとっていないのとでは切れ味って変わる ものなの？
奈須：結構変わる。この黄金バージョンのほうが破壊力は圧倒的に上。風王結界時の威力を90～80だとした ら、黄金バージョンは1000ぐらいある。
>>135771465
Literally apples to oranges. You're comparing invisible air to the magical energy saturated golden Excalibur, not just Excalibur.
Fate/Complete Material III World Material
Invisible Air
Rank: C
Type: Anti-Unit
Range: 1~2
Maximum Targets: 1 Object
A barrier that renders the blade hidden by entangling it with layers of wind, and altering the light refraction rate. It is closer to a sorcery than a Noble Phantasm. By using this barrier, Artoria can attack without the opponent recognising the sword’s reach and trajectory. Since concealing one’s Noble Phantasm also conceals one’s true identity, Invisible Air was highly effective at the early stages of the Holy Grail War. It also has other advantages such as increasing attack power and accuracy. Entangling the sword with wind and using the wind as the blade enhances the attack power, while having an “invisible weapon” provides an advantage in accuracy. Since the advantage of Invisible Air lies in “invisibility”, the accuracy increase will not occur while engaging opponents who possess Eye of the Mind or do not depend on vision.
In the Fourth Holy Grail War, Artoria unleashed the condensed air and used it as a long-range weapon that mauls down groups of enemies --- “The Iron Mallet of the Wind King”.
>Entangling the sword with wind and using the wind as the blade enhances the attack power
>>135771197
What the hell is that!? Please don't tell me it's a servant...
>>135771197
>a servant with that facet that made it into two servants.
Name one Heroic Spirit that could fit that
>>135771547
The servants in Grand Order are designed by over a hundred different big artists in the industy.
No shit that you're going to have them ranging pretty heavily in design style, in a sense.
You'll have ones like this, you'll have ones like that, etc.
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Rider_%28Fate/Grand_Order_-_Bonny_and_Read%29
>>135771547
just pretend F/GO doesn't exist like everyone else
>>135771547
>Please don't tell me it's a servant...
>Not playing F/GO
You are missing a lot of fun right as Nasu is fucking with powerlevelfags hard
Behold Solomon aka Grand Caster
He can fuck Gil up without even trying and he is only 1 of the 7 Grand Servants
>>135771622
Jekyll and Hyde, but we already have this servant in two stories now.
Although his ability does functionally make him two servants.
I'm not saying that's who they've summoned, but the fact that I already proved that one exists, does negate your point, but I already proved its possible.
>>135771417
Dude, your argument is just a mess. It's like you don't even know your own point.
First you claimed, and I quote:
>SHE was the one leveling the playing field on HIM
But then you post this quote:
>Lancer had destroyed the cursed yellow lance, proactively giving up the advantageous lead.
According to the second one, Lancer had the lead and he then evened out the field. Yet you said Saber was the one with the advantage and was leveling up the field.
This is a clear contradiction. So I'll favor the quote from Zero and conclude that Lancer was the one giving away his advantage to have a fair fight.
Next time keep it concise and don't lose yourself in the heat of the debate, otherwise you'll just keep doing 180º turns on your own beliefs.
>>135771682
Also Hundred Faced Assassin
That's another servant that can become eighty servants.
I've already double proved its possible.
>>135771665
Grand servants are the strongest servants of each class.
An unbefore seen elite servant, which is summoned by the root on occasion when shit is really going wrong in the world.
>>135771682
>Jekyll and Hyde
>Assassin
>Not Berserker
I don't like this
>>135771742
Grand Caster summoned himself, because he's so evil he can do that.
>>135771727
>First you claimed, and I quote:
>SHE was the one leveling the playing field on HIM
>But then you post this quote:
>Lancer had destroyed the cursed yellow lance, proactively giving up the advantageous lead.
Those are not mutually exclusive, you fuck. Lancer gave up his lead, but not for honor's sake alone. Idiot.
>According to the second one, Lancer had the lead and he then evened out the field. Yet you said Saber was the one with the advantage and was leveling up the field.
Lancer had the lead then gave up the lead. Not to even out the field, but to achieve another goal.
Saber then had the advantage, and yes, she then levels the field.
>This is a clear contradiction.
More like you are a clear retard.
>>135771773
Jekyll is a Assassin
Hyde is a Berserker
>>135771773
His NP turns him into Hyde, which transforms his class into Berserker.
He was Berserker all the time in Fate Prototype/Fragments though.
>>135771742
>Grand servants are the strongesr sevants of each class
But on several occasions Arthur/Aturia has been referrred to as probably the strongest Saber possible. Who else could be Grand Saber?
who else than Gilgamesh could be grand Archer?
who else than Herakles could be grand Berserker?
>>135771665
OK..I won't be surprised if I see Goku in fate now
Mordred, the knight of Treachery
>>135771892
that is not how a young man should dress
>>135771809
>Idiot
>retard
Ad hominem much?
You'll need to back up those new claims you just came up with.
Take your time, no need to resort to more pointless fallacies.
>>135771859
>But on several occasions Arthur/Aturia has been referrred to as probably the strongest Saber possible
The fuck do you think Rin or Zouken knows, about who the strongest Saber class person in the universe is?
All they can do is guess "Well this seems to be the most famous swordsman I can imagine".
Grand Saber is probably an alternate universe version of Arthuria where she was born twice as strong, or whatever. I mean we know Male Arthur is also in the throne, so alternate versions are allowed.
>>135771950
Insults are not ad hominems, you oblivious twit.
This is an ad hominem:
"you are gay and therefore you are wrong".
This is not an ad hominem:
"you are wrong, here is why, also you are gay".
>>135771465
he's right
invisible Air : Is another "noble phantasm" it is the sheat for excalibur not only a camuflage
This faggot
>>135771929
And her Dad can't be this cute but he is.
>>135771970
I'd laugh if Grand Saber was just proto-saber on roids.
There's a lot of things people wouldn't believe are servants, if they haven't been paying attention to Grand/Order.
>>135771978
>>This is a clear contradiction.
>More like you are a clear retard.
Claiming I'm a retard doesn't disprove my claim that you're contradicting yourself. This is an ad hominem.
Also, you're gay.
>>135772108
>mfw Grand Archer is EMIYA on roids
>>135772218
Wouldn't be so crazy
EMIYA is OP as fuck
>>135768507
Why was the next grail also effected by Diarmuid's curse then?
>>135772244
Grand Archer is going to be Gil, though.
>>135772191
I disproved your claim earlier. As you have proven, you cannot read.
>Those are not mutually exclusive, you fuck. Lancer gave up his lead, but not for honor's sake alone. Idiot.
To prove this, read the circumstances of him breaking Gae Buidhe. He declares his intentions freely. You will find no passages exclaiming it was so Saber could fight him at full force.
>Lancer had the lead then gave up the lead. Not to even out the field, but to achieve another goal.
See aforementioned.
>Saber then had the advantage, and yes, she then levels the field.
Already proven that with direct quotes.
Thus we can conclude there is no contradiction, and as an aside, you are retarded.
>>135772302
I rendered all your previous arguments invalid, why would you refer me to those again?
You're just being lazy as fuck now.
>>135772293
wouldn't be so farfetched, presuming all his limiters are off
>>135772293
Clearly grand archer is just archer Heracles
>>135772156
>hector
I'm fine with this.
>>135772378
I'd kill for this.
>>135772293
>>135772374
>>135772378
Let's not start you know what, guys
>>135772355
You haven't invalidated anything. Your trolling is weak, and your pretending to be a retard strategy is just embarrassing.
>>135772108
Proto Saber will have a woman's voice then?
>>135772792
>Proto Saber is actually a reverse trap
>>135772792
Why not?
How come Saber with her tiny arms can parry the attacks of Berserker?
>>135772866
Magical Energy Burst, a rank A skill that turns her limbs into metaphorical jet engines.
She is a tiny giant robot, powered by magic.
>>135772866
Prana Burst
Without using that skill, its noted she's weaker than Rin.
Prana Burst is a skill that turns all of your movements into a jet engine.
the problem with fate is that its never about who is the most powerful, its always about who got the most luckiest, who planned the most, in a world where magic is real shit like Guns, Explosives and snipers still beat magic in most circumstances except those super god regeneration heroes which I wonder if Biological or Gass weapons would work on them .
>>135761526
Because he had the potential to take someone else's servant and you don't want someone who you cannot kill coming back as an enemy later. Especially when that guy is a dick.
>>135773066
Because its fucking dumb, I like it when two super powerful heroes go all out and the battle dosen't end because of traps or some unlucky event.
>>135773168
>powerlevelfags
>>135773168
>>135772951
The biggest baits in the thread
Alice in Wonderland
>>135773173
assistance please
>>135773282
>ilya
Read the prisma manga, it's your damn substitute.
>Kotomine
ha ha nope
>>135773282
No, closest you've got is HF
Have fun
>>135773335
It would be the biggest fuck you to his dad, because he joins the loli he betrayed and his biggest enemy
>>135772951
Early on Nasu decided that he wanted a clash between Noble Phantasm to be a clash of concepts, rather than just a value of power
and it's much more interesting that way.
You can explain GoB vs UBW as UBW being faster, but you can also explain it as one who has all weapons in the world vs one who creates a world of weapons and that sounds like a more satisfying justification.
>>135772293
Wait ! did the pics of the other Grand dicks leaked? tell me where!!!
also where is my Grand Lancer Jesus with his Spear of destiny ????
>>135773511
I like when he makes it one word like akiha is plunder, or emiya is swordsI think the rest of nasu is pretty stupid
>>135773528
>Jesus wielding the spear of longinus
haha no.
>>135773528
No, there have been no leaks.
Jesus never wielded the spear of destiny. That was Saint Longinus.
Jesus would be Grand Savior.
>>135773528
Lets be honest here, Jesus will be a saver class like budah if he's ever made.
was lucifer ever a servant
>>135773511
Its easier to understand that GoB is better inherently; after all it has all the greatest shit, it costs no mana to spam, and it doesn't just have weapons or swords, rather it has all things in its vault.
But as long as UBW surpasses it in one sense while the RM is up, it can effectively disable it entirely due to compatibility in an interesting way.
Its not the guy who has all swords vs the guy who can create all swords; rather its the guy who has all things in general vs the guy who can only create swords, but it just so happens he creates them a bit faster than the other guy can pull them out, so he can entirely invalidate the other guy's ability within the short term enough to seal a victory.
Even if you have all the shit in the world, if you can't call upon any of it, you might be helpless.
Jesus would be the most powerful servant because he has the most believers in the history of mankind.
>>135773701
Finn would be the most powerful servant who fucks saber because he has the biggest dick in all fiction.
>>135773701
but he would never participate in conflict
>>135773627
Closest would be Fate/Prototype's Beast of Revelations. However, that is the first beast from the sea, not the second beast from the land who is the dragon called Satan.
>>135773736
Jesus did participate in conflict though, he kicked jews out of churches.
Matthew 21:12
>And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, 13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
