Why didn't he become a dictator? Pretty much everyone wanted him to, surely that in and of itself is democracy.
>>135568086
Cesar, Hitler, and Stalin were wildly popular among the masses too. Didn't mean they weren't dictators.
>>135568086
Because what about what he wanted? He is Yang Wenli first, tool of democracy second
they are in this mess in the first place because everyone wanted a cult of personality.
as an historian he couldn't allow history to repeat itself. Especially since there was already a willing and benevolent dictator on the other side of the fence already.
>>135568169
Actually they got into that mess because the democratically elected people were all fucking retards and lost most of the fleet in stupid offensive into imperial territory.
Democracy was clearly shit so he might as well have just taken over.
>>135568255
to what end?
he know he could begin to get entangled in the same intrigue shit reinhard did, and after him it would fall back into what became the empire
dictatorships don't really solve the problems of mass democracies
>>135568086
>Pretty much everyone wanted him to, surely that in and of itself is democracy
It reminds me of something Julian said about Reinhardt
>The kaiser is so popular that if elections were held in the empire, there is no doubt that he would be elected. Despite being a dictator that makes him a democratic being.
>>135568255
I was talking about the whole Rudolph thing
>>135568086
Google Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus, OP
Because he just wants to retire and get his pension.
>>135569400
But isn't that kind of what he's saying? Everyone wanted Yang to pull a Cincinnatus, they wanted to hand all the power to him because they knew he had what it took to fix the situation while also being confident he'd give it up when it was no longer necessary.
>>135568086
He was lazy.
>>135568086
You didn't pay much attention did you? He knew better then to try to control people by force it wasn't in his character. The man also knew plenty about history. His death is also pretty typical of most great men. Most great men die sad, lonely or even mundane reasons.
>>135568160
Except Yang Wenli was a bigger tool himself than acting as a tool of democracy. That's kinda how he died after all.
He wanted to be an artist or a historian. He didn't want to fight in the military, he didn't want to command millions of troops to their deaths, and he definitely didn't want to do it for any prolonged period of time. He only did it because the few good men who could do it were handicapped by so much bureaucratic bullshit that they might as well be retired and the remaining 98% of the Alliance command structure were goddamn morons. If Reinhart presided over Heinessen's integration himself instead of handing it off to a buttmad officer, its very likely that Yang would have just stayed retired.
>>135570478
He died because the plot demanded ChristSith Religion shenanigans, which is objectively where most people on this side of the world agree that the plot went to shit.
>>135570602
>He died because the plot demanded ChristSith Religion shenanigans, which is objectively where most people on this side of the world agree that the plot went to shit.
Yes I know, but 'canonically' he and his crew who ya know always pushes him to their whims and he can't say no, all just happened to let security lax.
There's no fucking doubt the author has a lot of shortcomings when it comes to writing a story and kinda hinges on a few strengths of his, something which most people on /a/ would bitch like crazy about if a nip author today tried it.
>>135570478
I don't really know what you're saying, are you just calling him a tool?
>>135570602
Hey, the plot didn't go to shit, the Terrarists were always shit and they just got a bit more focus because they finally tried something. The Terraist subplot during the fourth season was just one subplot, there was still the Imperial and Iserlohn subplots which were great
>>135570760
>I don't really know what you're saying, are you just calling him a tool?
Yeah he was kinda forced to be just so he could die in that fashion. Well to be fair it was foreshadowed quite a bit, but that doesn't make him any less of an idiot in respects to his own safety.
But LOGH was never very convincing when it came to making characters look smart. Notice how when people plan shit out, it's just one exact plan and nothing else. Either your opponent falls for it hook line and sinker, or shit blows up in your face. That alone is unrealistic, because back up plans, secondary strategies, and flexible tactics have always existed since the dawn of time.
Yet in LOGH, this doesn't ever exist. It's the greatest example of being told, not shown with guys like Vice-Admiral Fischer who despite being on screen less than 30 minutes total across like 80+ episodes with less than 20 lines of dialogue, he still ends up as apparently the most valuable admiral to Yang.
You get a sense he's important during his debut, but after that until the moment of his fucking death and being spoon fed his importance, you don't even take notice of how hot shit he is. In contrast Bittenfeld and the Twin Stars get slammed in the viewers face so everyone thinks they are awesome but let's face facts, all 3 of them combined would die a horrible death from semi circles if they had to fight Yang + Fischer without retreating. Cause Fischer was apparently that good of a keyboard and mouse for Yang to play around with.
>>135571092
Adding onto this, ironically the gaiden that comes out a lot later rectifies this when following Reinhardt and Kircheis.
For example, a formulaic plot would have everything go according to plan but then something happens to put the objective of safety of the cast at risk. With LOGH, this ALWAYS ends in something big, an admiral's life is lost, yada yada, and it gets all dramatic.
Whereas in the Gaiden, things go according to plan, but then an unknown variable pops up, and forces Reinhardt and Kircheis toadapt.
Good story telling would mix both kinds together, instead of being mutually exclusive. Instead the only two choices for the winners of LOGH are success and Pyrrhic victories, while the Gaiden is all about success and close calls because we already know that Reinhardt and Kircheis can't die.
>>135568086
Because he's laid back person. Become dictator is too much for him. Poor fucker only want to stay at home and drink all day everyday but can't have his wish
>>135571757
*has
>>135571092
Oh so by tool you mean idiot. I don't really get the idea that he died like an idiot. He definitely died an inglorious death, but through his own idiocy?
Sure he only took 1 or 2 ships to the delegation, why should he take any more? Let's not pretend that Reinhard did anything more than spare Yang and his entire fleets lives when he called for peace. Taking enough ships to sufficiently guard yourself from attack would be a show of distrust to the man who's calling all the shots. Not to mention that Yang actually likes and trusts the guy.
If you're talking about him not bringing a gun, what would he have done with it? We know he's a flunk at everything except strategy.
I mean he coulda garrisoned the ship with Rosenritter, but why? Even if he puzzled out that the Terraists were going to make an attempt on his life, how could he know the Terraists would board him? The logical assumption would be death by battleship
On a side note, i feel that while Fischer is good at his job, it's also that his job is so important that he gets held in high esteem by Yang. It's literally Fischers job to get the fleets to do what Yang wants.
>>135571816
>why should he take any more?
Because of exactly what happened. There is more than just Reinhardt at play. By your logic, should Yang completely ignore Rubinsky and Trunicht because they don't seem like capable of sending star ships after his ass?
>Taking enough ships to sufficiently guard yourself from attack would be a show of distrust to the man who's calling all the shots. Not to mention that Yang actually likes and trusts the guy.
That's retarded. By your logic world leaders should just agree to meet with each other in one location but have absolutely zero verification methods to ensure security. Oh hey I thought Kim Jong Un was more fat, but seeing as how you're a chink I guess that's okay come on in.
>The logical assumption would be death by battleship
That's a sign that you're not thinking. Rationally, the terrarists would try to pose as the Empire or FPA and kill Yang to incite disorder or prolong the war. This is basic of the basics, if you studied history to any remote extent you should know this has happened many times in reality.
The only difference is that the Terrarists pulled it off so poorly that it was easy to track down who did it, but underestimating the enemy is a far bigger crime than overestimating the enemy unless you were stretched thin on resources, which Yang was not.
And let's face it, the whole idea of two fucking tiny ass transport ships meeting out in the middle of nowhere to begin with instead of agreeing to meet on a secured planet or boarding each others flagships which they have done in the past, is forced retardation.
>>135571816
>On a side note, i feel that while Fischer is good at his job, it's also that his job is so important that he gets held in high esteem by Yang. It's literally Fischers job to get the fleets to do what Yang wants.
And yet all we see is a few moments of him waving his hands around like a conductor at a musical. We never get shown WHY or HOW he is better than others at fleet movements. We just get TOLD.
You know another character who is like that but gets a lot more screen time? Oberstein. Every single fucking ploy he made ON SCREEN has ended up biting Reinhardt in the ass whether immediately or down the line. Yet everything that makes Oberstein the cold calculated machine that apparently gets shit done, is merely mentioned by the narrator while the camera zooms in on Oberstein walking down a hall or going through paperwork. We get no detail on HOW he is better, we just get told that HE IS.
Which ironically if we compare him to say Bittenfeld, is the exact opposite case which is why the redhead pig has so many fans. Bittenfeld is the only example of showing not telling, because even though everyone puts him down as an idiot, lady luck favors him enough to have him shit on every single important FPA Admiral at one point or another, threatening even Yang for a moment.
We SEE how he's an idiot, he just charges. But we also SEE that he constantly foils the enemy's plans, like Bucock who relied on the enemy being smart enough to not be suicidal. In fact, Bittenfeld is the one who took down Fischer, yet that was only mentioned in passing compared to how dramatic it was that the white haired faggot died because of Bittenfeld.
Who cares? Fischer died, you could give up the Twin Stars for that and it'd still be a win for the Empire.
But no, despite LOGH having chess masters like Yang and Reinhardt having so much foresight, knowing their opponent's exact personalities, predicting their exact decisions, , no one in the Empire gave no fucks about Fischer.
>>135572064
Hindsight is 20/20, how could Yang now that the benign threat that is Terraism would make it's play now? With neither Yang or Reinhard knowing that Terraism had rooted itself in the Neue Reich. When you say it like that sure he shouldn't completely ignore them, but after how ever many days of constant battle, of which we saw the effects, why would he?
>That's retarded, let me tell you how retarded it would be if something you didn't say happened.
But i have reconsidered what i said all the same, he should've taken more ships to guard from renegade Imperial elements. Which the Terraists technically were.
>Sign i'm not thinking
You know, i was about to say yep you got me, Then i thought about it a little harder, the Terraists were in an imperial battleship, it would've been the same either way. Death by the supposed Empire, regardless of whether it was by Imperial battleship or Imperial leg-shooting ace. I did forget about that whole posing as the empire thing, that's how you got me. I think it was the fact that nobody for even a fucking second believed that it was actually the Empire.
>Forced retardation. ehh, no more than anything else from the series. Just another romantic gesture which the series is chock full of.
>>135568120
Caesar and Stalin did nothing wrong
>>135572642
>Hindsight is 20/20, how could Yang now that the benign threat that is Terraism would make it's play now?
That's what preparation is for. It's not about knowing, it's about being prepared.
Do you know the purpose of standing armies? Do you only lock your doors when someone in the neighborhood got robbed? This is your logic.
>Then i thought about it a little harder, the Terraists were in an imperial battleship, it would've been the same either way.
No you didn't, verification surpasses such minor trivialities. Do you think a NAVY Seal can somehow take part in a meeting between America and China's Commander-in-Chiefs? Their space ship was no flag ship, it was fodder. The only reason Yang was okay with it was because they apparently agreed to meet under such stupid conditions
Do you remember Kircheis? He visited Yang on his terms. Do you remember Julian? He visited Reinhardt on the flagship.
Who the fuck goes and asks the supreme leader of the other faction to go out in a pile of space junk to meet in a dark alleyway?
Face facts, shit like what happened to Yang would never happen in real life because no organization would allow such a risk to happen to their supporting pillar, and said pillars are usually far less important than Yang was.
> ehh, no more than anything else from the series. Just another romantic gesture which the series is chock full of.
I never said the series wasn't full of shit. In fact I made it my point and brought up other things like Fischer, Oberstein, Bittenfeld, etc. If anyone tried using these 'romantic gestures' in writing a story today, no matter how spiritually successive of LOGH it is, everybody would shit on it for it's massive plot holes and extreme case of telling not showing that even makes self insert light novels look professional.
>>135572194
Ehh, we get told by Yang that he's better than others at fleet movements. Yang's a totally self-deprecating recluse. I have no doubt for a second that Fischer is competent. But what we see is that he does his job, and when he doesn't do his job (because he's dead) Yang starts to get into trouble. While also being attacked by like 100,000 ships.
>No one in the Empire gave no fucks about Fischer.
This is actually really simple, Fischer's job wasn't one of choices. Fischer didn't make tough calls or risky plays, Yang did. Fischer was just the officer in charge of getting all the fleets movements to match. They don't even know his name. Yang's enemies always go on about his fleet movements, that's Fischer they're talking about they just don't know it.
Now this is gonna be me reading a bit far in, but we never see anybody else in the same role as Fischer in enemy fleets. And yet we never think how great Mittermeyer's Fischer is. Or any other admiral's for that matter. We really only think this much about it because Yang said it.
>>135572805
Yang was crossing the battlefield over to the Imperial battle lines, this was no dark space alley, in fact this was easily the brightest. Now, before you say "Even better how could this shit happen in such a bright place".
>No you didn't
Oh, i did. i just mean that the Terraists-posing as Imperials- could've killed Yang with the battleship that they boarded him from and it would've had the same result. "Imperials" killing Yang. If i can remember correctly, the only reason this wasn't assumed was because the Iserlohn guys finally took a look at that Terraist cd and realised the Terraist plan before it happened. By "same either way" i was not referring to the presence of security.
Besides all that, it's become pretty clear that you really like making analogies. And also that you're pretty hostile and in a thread about a show you don't particularly like. So why are you here? I'm just getting this nagging feeling you're a total cunt. I mean i tried playing nice, sometimes people are just having a bad day and usually backing off and giving the guy some ground settles the attitude. Not you though
