Assassin:
>standard stats brought up into line with rest of servants
>can now extend presence concealment to their master to compensate for naturally weaker NP's
>assassins no longer must be Hassan-I-Sabbah
Berserker:
>mana consumption now scales with level of insanity and has overall been reduced at higher levels
>Clarified conditions on Berserkers access to NP's. Madness above level D denies access to active NP abilities, but passive ones are always available
>Berserker masters now start the war with 1 additional command seal
Caster:
>New class passive: now summoned with all spell resources ever used in a magical ritual during their lifetime as an additional NP
>can now be summoned earlier than any other class, to allow for proper prep-time prior to the start of the war.
>manifested abilities and status are now independent of the mana supply from their master. Overall mana requirements for caster class have been reduced
Lancer:
>luck increased
>magic resist increased
Saber:
>Magic resistance reduced
>now receives a penalty to mana supply when away from their master, scaling with distance
Other changes/fixes:
>Mana cost on all active NP abilities has gone up significantly
>Active ability on Avalon removed
>Servants now incur a penalty to standard status if they carry an NP ranked higher than A. Penalty increases for each rank above A, and for each NP exceeding A. Rider class does not Incur this penalty
>Ea has been removed.
>Type-Moon in charge of balancing
We Caster meta now. Fuck this war, it's been going downhill since the third.
>>134847144
>Archer untouched
BULLSHIT
U
L
L
S
H
I
T
>>134847144
>Still no Shielder
Fuck this shit, we have been waiting for the Shielder update since 2012 and Val...Type-moon still haven't delivered.
What is even the point of all these rules ? Nasu always breaks the rules he sets to himself so this is pointless.
>>134847144
what are these things balancing?
I mean, does this affect something relevant or it's just stuff so that nerds can wank to something?
>>134847144
The entire war boils down to 'did you summon a Saber clone or not?' so I don't see why it matters.
>>134848843
Archer Class is OP.
>No penalties from lack of master support
>can use NP without mana from master
>Can last at least three days without master
>long-range attacks are low-risk/high-damage
>no nerf on close combat ability
Also how many Archers even have a regular NP, and not OP horseshit like GoB and UBW?
>>134847144
>trying to "balance" the HGW
The whole point is that it's broken as fuck, knight classes were meant to be the only possible winners and the 4 others are just canon fodder.
Thank you chillytoad.
>>134847144
>Lancer:
>luck increased
THE ABSOLUTE MADMAN
I'm trying to get into fate, but i heard the difficulty curve is extreme.
whats the best noob class
>>134851431
Just get a Saber and win instantly, it's the ultimate noob class.
>>134851431
Just get a really famous person's relic and shit will be easy mode.
>secondary idiot thinks the war is supposed to be a fair contest
>>134847144
Is there a list of classes that reached final battle during the wars?
>>134849024
What about F/GO.
>>134851748
Saber every time.
Archer in the 4th, Fate, and UBW.
Rider in HF.
Other finalists are unknown.
>>134847144
Holy Grail War needs a balance patch
>Decide to Main Rider class
>Every one laughs
>Low tier they said.
>End up bodying the shit out of everyone.
>>134851700
Nigga they nerfed my main and buffed another class to OPness, how the fuck is that fair?
Reminder that Assassins became a meme in Apocrypha world.
>>134847144
>>Type-Moon in charge of balancing
>Hurr durr I don't understand that the three families intentionally tried to make the classes outside of the knight classes to be shit, because the entire contest was supposed to be a cheat. But instead they fucked it up in various ways even despite trying to cheat. The knight classes are supposed to go to the three families.
Three families didn't count on a lot of factors, like NP being super important, so they didn't realize that trying to gimp things a bit wasn't a sure win.
So it still ended up basically balanced
>>134851936
>Decide to main Assassin
>Bitches laugh
>Seconds later they're all dead, without having noticed a thing.A second hit is not needed
>>134851979
>But instead they fucked it up in various ways even despite trying to cheat
Probably Einzbern's fault. Seems like every single screwup in Fate can be traced back to them somehow.
>>134851936
>>134852140
>Decide to main Lancer
>Everyone laughs of the bad luck
>Command Seal
>Legend of Dracula
gg no re.
>>134852161
Actually every problem in F/SN that isn't Angya Manyu, can be traced back to Tohsaka, or more accurately just Tokiomi.
>Gilgamesh
>Kotomine
>Sakura
>Zouken having power
>Everything about Gilgamesh again
>>134852249
Meanwhile Assassin has already poked you in the back to death, while Vlad is going full emo after being turned into a vampire.
Then the church sends in someone to kill Vlad without chance, and every other servant gangs up on him while he's being all flashy.
Rule number one is don't stand out. Any time someone unleashes some big transformation super mode ability, everyone else gangs up on him.
>>134852362
>while Vlad is going full emo after being turned into a vampire.
He doens't become emo when he activates LoD, that's when he activates it. Might as well say the same thing about Li Shuwen, everyone would gang up against him since they saw he was killing various Masters.
>Its just a Caster, no worries, those fucks are weak
>>134847144
They aren't supposed to be balanced. The Fuyuki Grail war started with 3 Classes: Lancer, Saber and Archer, then added the rest as cannon fodder to get more idiots to sacrifice in the Grail filling ritual.
>>134852430
>He doesn't become emo when he activates it
>Just when he activates it
>Everyone would see Li Shuwen since they saw him...
>See Li Shuwen
People aren't going to gang up on the air around them just because a few people suddenly die out of nowhere, nor will they see Li Shuwen. Its like you have no idea what his abilities even are if you're saying that.
They'll be looking for snipers before they consider something as odd as an invisible assassin who can kill with one touch.
Man, just because you're told that being flashy as well makes you a huge target, doesn't mean "Well, people would gang up on your guy as well automatically". His abilities are expressly created in a way where you never even know here's there, since cognitively you can't pick him up with your five senses.
>>134852270
Not just Angra Mainyu.
>Let's make our master for this upcoming war our own humunculus
>Even though she's the grail vessel
>And if she absorbs too many heroic spirits her body starts to break down and she won't be able to collect the grail anyway???
>And then we'll summon for her the greatest and most skilled warrior of all, whose most powerful NP is a fighting style that gives him an incredible killing blow unique to any and all weapons imaginable
>But make sure to summon him into the class that can only fight mindlessly, I mean just because he's a great, noble and selfless hero of legend doesn't mean he won't suddenly betray us for absolutely no reason, gotta be prepared for that one!
>>134852680
> Q. Why did the Einzbern summoned Hercules as a Berserker? I'd think that in some other classes, he'd be able to have access to skills and Noble Phantasms that he had originally had....
>A. Simple is POWER. Mayhap the Einzbern, who had been up until now been betrayed again and again, felt it safer to have a "loyal dog that'd do only what they told it to do". The aspect of Hercules as a regular Heroic Spirit would have many advantages in his own right, but on the other hand, there's also the possibility of some cooperative friction occurring with the Master because the heroic part of him is a bit too strong. That kind of Master and Servant combo is pretty frequent in Fate/Zero...
As they say in Fate/Strange, the Einzabern's logic was incredibly simple to the point of foolishness. They tried going all in on stats and power, which doesn't work since compatibility is almost everything here.
Also because they were tired of being betrayed, due to Kiritsugu. So they summoned a loyal dog that couldn't think for itself.
>“I don’t know,” replied Hanza, his back still turned away. “Your Noble Phantasms may have been ineffective on a Dead Apostle, but not on me. It’s rock-paper-scissors. If specs were all that mattered, a Grail War would have been a competition over who gets Berserker.”
>You have a point, thought the police chief.
>He had procured information that the Einzbern summoned a top-class hero in the Fifth Fuyuki Grail War as a Berserker, all of its parameters boosted with mad enhancement. While he didn’t know how the Grail War unfolded, at the very least he received no word of the Einzbern obtaining the Holy Grail.
>Franceska had once said, “It’s always so all or nothing for the Einzberns. They tried to exploit the system and when that didn’t work, they summoned a major hero by the books. And when that didn’t work, they made some other big hero a Berserker and made sure it was as maxed as could be. It wouldn’t hurt them to lighten up and enjoy the war a little.”
>A Grail War is greatly influenced by affinity, not simply disparity in numbers; how each Heroic Spirit and Master play to their strengths is crucial. Even having to factor in chance at times is only typical of a Grail War. By the same token, it could be said that luck was smiling on them now. It was true that they were on opposing sides and he had no intention of letting Hanza return to the Church, but he thanked his fortune that for now at least this priest was not his enemy.
At least Fate/Strange gives us more Dead Apostles and Executioners than we've had in ten years.
>>134852680
Yes, but very few of those actually became long lasting problems in F/SN. They were more "We fucked up, and couldn't even get off the ground".
We're counting things that are more "Oh fuck, this sort of ruined the contest in several ways". Like how Tokiomi led to Tokiomi and Gilgamesh being a thing, and that almost ended humanity in several ways, not to mention the one leading the contest wasn't neutral and ruined things.
Also Tokiomi led to Zouken having power again, even when no sane magus would give him shit, and he would have faded away into nothing if he wasn't given a heir out of nowhere like that. That one action nearly put the world in danger in one route.
The most damage the EInzebern fuck ups really did outside of the Angya thing, was make it so there was no chance of them really winning.
Although Angya was a huge fuck up
>needing mana bonuses and a head start to win with Caster
Fuckin plebs, learn strategy.
>>134847144
>Lancer
>luck increased
OP as shit, gg riot
>>134847144
where is this from?
what is this for?
Caster now 2 OP, pls nerf.
>>134852436
Mfw was a dumbass and didn't save (or may have accidentally skipped it. Had to restart so far back.
>>134856586
You really need a better sense for danger
>>134852362
I just want to see him impale an army.
>>134859004
Only way that'll probably happen is if he's fighting someone who summons an army
There are a number of servants that do this at least.
>>134851936
Make that Ozymandias and you're golden.
>>134847144
Archer was already the best or second best class. Now it's just OP.
Independent Action needs a nerf on it's survival bonuses or at least an obedience penalty.
Archers should be made to be the second hardest class to control after Berserkers, with Independent Action dramatically reducing the effects of command spells that go against their will.
>>134852762
>They tried going all in on stats and power, which doesn't work
It would have worked just fine if it wasn't for plot convenience.
Herc was the top candidate to win the war aside from Gil, and he lost all his battles because some plot bullshit.
Caliburn was a complete asspull, Gil cheated and was used as a plot device to get rid of Berserker in a route that didn't need him, and losing to the Shadow is a given for every servant, even for Gil.
>>134849434
Robin Hood only had a poison gas and arrow.
>>134847144
>Lancer:
>luck increased
Fair enough.
>magic resist increased
Unnecessary as fuck.
Just nerf Saber's OP magic resistance and you're good to go. Lancers already have higher magic res than Archers, and buffing them would only make things worst for the weak Caster class.
>>134860061
Robin Hood has a lot of shit, however he partially relies on his master to get him supplies, since Robin is an expert in setting up traps. If the master is good at getting him stuff to work with, he can demonstrate more ability than otherwise.
He's got a shroud that turns him invisible given to him by faeries, a bow, some poison of the Yew Tree, arrows, and some Druid shit.
>>134860061
Robin Hood is made to be used as an Assassin more than an Archer. His Faceless King NP is very similar to Presence Concealment, but unlike the former, it doesn't increase the chance of being detected when preparing to attack.
He's also good with traps and his bow NP is efficient for sniping, and his Independent Action is top tier.
He was a victim of poor usage in Extra because his master was a "muh honor" type.
>>134860306
Would Kiritsugu won the war with him? Seems like Robin will go along with Kiritsugu's edgy bullshit.
These changes aren't Icefrog enough.
>>134860389
It would be somewhat hard to handle because Kerry's philosophy of using servants as tools and planning everything carefully could conflict with an Archer's Independent Action.
But overall, Kerry would do good with an Assassin or an Archer. Lancer, Caster and of course Berserker would be difficult classes for him to use.
>>134860540
I thought he's fine with that as long as he's not told to fight fairly.
>>134860540
Kerry looks at servants like tools somewhat, but its only super honorable types that talk about the glory of battle that he won't communicate with or otherwise. The reason he wouldn't speak to Arthur is because there are so many things he wants to say wrong with her, but he knows its not his place, so rather than risk it all spilling out, he just keeps his mouth shut.
He sees her as an example of how heroism is fucked; the people turned a fifteen year old girl into a martry who sacrificed herself for her kingdom, until they were done with her and killed her basically. Then after her death they give her the title or elevation of "hero", yet she was nothing more than another sacrifice to feed the system and temporarily save a few people. Yet the person herself who was made into a sacrifice talks about how battle can be glorious and noble, he only sees that more as an example of how its all fucked.
As long as humanity doesn't see war as the worst thing ever, they will never break away from this system, they'll keep doing it while talking about how its noble or something similar.
This is the sort of bleak outlook he has on it all. Yet he knows its not really his place to sit Saber down and have a ten minute conversation on how this is all fucked up, so he decided from the start that he wouldn't even try.
He would work well with an anti-hero type hero, or someone who doesn't see nobility and heroism in battle.
Robin is a good fit for him, since he's nothing but pragmatic in the same way as Kiritsugu. They may even communicate somewhat effectively if it works out.
>>134860582
I don't remember much, but I seem to recall him being a "I'll do things my way" kind of servant.
Kerry would work well with any servant that doesn't have a lot of obedience issues and isn't a moralfag or obsessed with honorable 1v1 fair duels.
Kinda like Hassan or Medusa.
>>134860763
Not really. He only said that because his master is the muh honor type and he can't stand that shit.
>>134847144
If this happened, everyone would wait until a sucker pulled out the caster class. When's the next patch?
