Is Jack admiral level or below?
Below. Admiral level would easily take out the entire island. Yet the minks people held their own and until he used Caesar's fruit.
Not to mention the great mammoth is a pretty shit fruit in terms of speed and fighting ability. His tush can easily be dodged and he can ram into people. Disappointing and he probably below Donflamingo in terms of power.
>>134082621
I keep saying that Dofla would be second to only Kaido if he was part of his crew but people laugh at me
>>134082421
No. Kaido is probably near admiral level.
I dont understand why you guys dont understand that admiral level is the highest of the very high.
Only Whitebeard and maybe Shanks were above them. Now Blackbeard is probably their level but at Marineford he wasnt either.
>>134082421
put One Piece in the title of the thread fagget
is kuzan working for kaido?
>>134083011
He's with Blackbeard, this was stated explicitly by Gorosei and BB's crew.
>>134083011
>speedreaders
>>134083047
There has to be a good reason for that. Given the choice of what to do he wouldn't normally work with a sack of shit like Blackbeard otherwise.
>>134083859
Find out on the next Dragonball Z
>>134082802
Admiral level is below Yonko level. Imagine whitebeard 1v1 any of the admirals in marineford.
>>134085341
Didn't Kizaru and Akainu easily wreck him?
>>134085388
It might seem so but WB had to break through loads of shit until that fight happened. If admiral vs Yonko happens in an isolated place there's no doubt yonko would overpower an admiral.
>>134082421
thanks to the standards being set ridiculously high by the RBY logia trio, I don't think a Zoan admiral will impress people as much, regardless of how powerful he/she is. I mean, with the original trio, you had a guy who could fire lasers and travel at the speed of light, a human volcano that can produce infinite magma and a one man Ice Age. Zoans will never be admiral tier in terms of awe and spectacle.
>>134082802
admirals are for scaring noob pirates and WG propaganda. In reality they really aren't THAT strong, at least compared to some of the crazier fucks we've seen sailing the seas. They're easily five or seven tiers below Yonkou, and could even get their shit pushed in by someone like Vergo if he was actually looking to assassinate them.
>>134085837
You're talking like you don't know about haki my friend. Haki was introduced for exactly this reason so logia types wouldn't be too overpowered.
>>134083859
>There has to be a good reason for that. Given the choice of what to do he wouldn't normally work with a sack of shit like Blackbeard otherwise.
Probably a mole, Aokiji is out for his own justice he's left the marines.
It should be obvious by now that BB is the antithesis to Luffy in a lot of ways.
One excellent way of showing this is to have BB's crew all distrust each other and have no loyalty, as opposed to the SH.
>>134086005
I'm talking about admirals usefullness as WG propaganda, not about their abilities per se. Yeah, Jack could kill Akainu if he run him through with a Haki-infused tusk, but tell me; if you were average joe pirate sailing the blue seas, which would you be more frightened by?
a) the guy who can kill you with lasers so fast your brain wouldn't be able to process pain in time for you to feel it,
or
b) the new (and I'm just making something up here) Cheetah-Zoan admiral you could probably evade if you were smart or strong enough?
>>134086177
>One excellent way of showing this is to have BB's crew all distrust each other and have no loyalty
I highly doubt this, though. Blackbeards crew are all strong in believers in fate. They follow BB because they sincerely believe that he will be the pirate king.
>>134086309
Pizzaro asked to be captain straight after marineford.
Shilliew said the crew should disband during the time BB was taking WB's fruit.
An Ex-Admiral now joined his crew.
Seeds are planted.
I'm sure there will be more things like this as time moves on.
>>134082852
You might as well start searching for One Piece threads with the words: admiral or yonko level.
>>134086309
maybe his OG crew have some faith in him, but the people he freed from Impel Down ain't loyal, they're only kept in line by his power, and now they're sticking with him because he's a gajillionaire island owning pirate admiral. The minute his empire starts crumbling, those guys will first fight and then turn tail if they sense he might lose
>>134082802
Lol wut, Marco wasn't even a Yonko and he was easily stronger than all of the Admirals in 1v1's.
>>134086177
>BB's crew all distrust each other and have no loyalty
you think so? laffite flew into mariejois to nominate teach for shichibukai. that takes balls and loyalty. I can see why you'd think the former impel down prisoners aren't loyal, but the blackbeard pirate OGs seem really loyal to be honest.
>>134082621
BELOW kek, get rekt speedreader fag
>>134086549
>you think so? laffite flew into mariejois to nominate teach for shichibukai.
Lafitte had no bounty then, nothing more to fear from the marines than a treapassing charge.
Also he was an ex-cop, probably knows the system.
I'll grant you the original dudes he rolled with are more loyal than the news ones.
Then again, their loyalty hasn't been tested much yet.
>>134086395
not him, but to be fair...
Usopp asked to be captain straight after Syrup Island
Zoro has told Luffy he needs to be a better captain on multiple occasions (but has never made any threats to leave)
An ex-Schibukai's underling has joined Luffys crew
>>134087186
>Usopp asked to be captain straight after Syrup Island
The events of Water 7 and Lobby resolved this
>An ex-Schibukai's underling has joined Luffys crew
The events of Water 7 and Lobby resolved this
>>134087186
>Zoro has told Luffy he needs to be a better captain on multiple occasions (but has never made any threats to leave)
Zoro is a high tier dude who calls Luffy on his shit.
>>134087422
I know, I know, I was mostly just playing devils advocate
>>134085944
you are dumb
>>134085341
whitebeard was above the other yonko, kaido and big mom are below admiral level
>>134086494
in no fucking way
are you kidding me?
>>134089781
>whitebeard was above the other yonko
Says who?
>kaido and big mom are below admiral level
Says who?
>>134089781
wtf, do you SERIOUSLY think the Admirals are the strongest on the seas? Bitch please, each Yonkou has probably have at least 4 Admiral-tier fighters on their crews, fuck off retard. They would'nt each be ruling 1/4 of the world if they had chickenshit underlings
Comparative power levels can only be determined by a panel showing one character standing over another's prone, defeated body (por ejemplo: Doflamingo after beating Smoker)
Remember that Luffy beat Enel, an admiral-tier enemy that was leagues stronger than any arc villain they have beaten since, because of fruit immunity.
>>134090212
>each Yonkou has probably have at least 4 Admiral-tier fighters on their crews
No way. I'd say the Yonkou are stronger than the admirals, but they'd be lucky if they had one or two cremates on the level of the admirals. The World Government has to have a way to control the seas, if the admirals were such shit, there wouldn't be a point in having them. Imagine a Yonkou attacked a Tenryuubito, he would only have the ability to call an Admiral. What'd be the point?
That'd mean that one Yonkou crew could wage war against the WG and wreck them, and that makes no sense. Whitebeard fought against the WG with help of many other crews which was evened out by the Shichibukai, and they lost without giving major losses to the Marines. Considering there shouldn't be major differences in power among the four Yonkou, the Admirals have to be stronger than everyone but one or two crewmates at most in a Yonkou's crew.
>>134090547
One Yonkou could wage an incredibly wasteful and destructive war against the WG, exhausting their resources and best soldiers, and leaving them vulnerable to the other Yonkou, yes. Or they could consolidate their power and make smaller landgrabs against the other Yonkou, which makes a lot more sense.
Being more powerful than one of your enemies does not mean that picking a fight with them is a good idea.
>>134090799
The idea that a Yonkou can have several fighters that are stronger than the strongest fighters in the Marines is retarded. That would mean that there are four forces stronger than the Marines on the seas, and if that was the case, the WG wouldn't be nearly as powerful as it is.
>>134085944
>and could even get their shit pushed in by someone like Vergo if he was actually looking to assassinate them
Hahahaha you're fucking retarded
>>134085944
>this is what vergofags actually believe
Each admiral is several magnitudes above Doflamingo and they are easily stronger than most of the NW. The only people who are stronger are the Emperors themselves.
>>134090458
Enel would get destroyed by any fighter in the New World in seconds let alone an Admiral
>>134090891
There are probably people who could beat an Admiral in a one-on-one fight on the high seas, yes. However, the Admirals have the advantage of versatile and extremely destructive powers -- each can be used for anything between assassination and WMD -- infamy across the high seas, and in Kizaru's case, the ability to be anywhere on earth within minutes of a phonecall. Each one is also backed up by two other dudes of comparable power, not to mention the world's largest and most well-equipped military force.
The point is, even if there are people out in OP's world who could beat an admiral one-on-one, it's still highly impractical and disadvantageous to do so. Wars aren't won by mano-a-mano duels, let alone the logistics of supplying armies and maintaining territories.
>>134091014
>Each admiral is several magnitudes above Doflamingo
What the hell is a magnitude? I doubt Oda is going to asspull another power up for Admirals like the introduction of Haki, the introduction of Devil Fruit awakening, set elite fighters a cut above the rest.
>>134091323
I'm not saying there are not, but you are talking like being on the same level as an admiral is an easy thing.
>>134091040
He was a logia that had innate Haki (in this case, Observation to the point of low-key omniscience) and control of one of the fundamental forces of the universe. He could also restart his own stopped heart. If he had enough know-how to know that his fruit also made him a Magnet-Magnet man, he would easily be admiral-tier.
>>134091349
Right now I doubt that Luffy/Zoro could take on an admiral but that'll surely change when Luffy learns G5/Awakening and when Zoro finally opens his left eye sharingan. There's also the matter with Sanji's strength-increasing food. But the most important and deciding factor is that haki is will-based, so them fighting to death is surely going to bring out their full-potential, meaning that both Luffy and Zoro have a good chance of beating Akainu and Kizaru.
>>134091451
He doesn't know about armanent haki nor about awakening. And the only people he's ever fought are peasants and a rubber-dude who totally rekt him, so he doesn't have much fighting experience either.
>>134091385
I think we're mostly in agreement. OP is still a shonen series, which are prone to serial escalation, so I don't find it hard to believe that Oda will introduce pirates strong enough to take on Admirals in future arcs.
My argument is that this wouldn't screw up the power structure of the world as much as you'd think, because as the WG and Navy prove, the structure is maintained as much by organizations as by individuals. Hell, the Whitebeard Fleet is still a world power, despite losing its leader and the strongest man on earth.
>>134091451
>he would easily be admiral-tier
Nigga please. Pre-gear, pre-timeskip Luffy was dodging most of his attacks and a few punches were making Enel cough blood all over the floor.
He has a haxed logia but that's where it ends, his path to admiral is far from easy.
>>134086395
>>134086309
>>134086177
>>134086549
Blackbeard original crew is as loyal as the SH. In fact, almost all the crews in One Piece share the same kind of blind loyalty to their captains, being the captain the one that usually mistreats his crew.
I doubt that Shillew wants to betray Blackbeard, since he got more than a few chances to do so in ID. His comment on Marineford was mostly because if Blackbeard didn't succeed, their chances of getting out of there alive were relatively low. And because the prisioneers would probably turn against Blackbeard if he didn't show enough strength.
But after two years with them, seeing that Blackbeard is generally a total bro and cares for his own crew, I really doubt that they have any reason to betray him.
>>134087159
>Lafitte had no bounty then, nothing more to fear from the marines than a treapassing charge.
That doesn't matter, getting there is probably getting killed on sight. That's were the asshole nobles live.
>>134091561
>>134091636
This proves my point (>>134090458); raw destructive power isn't the only measure of whether or not you could win a fight in OP. Skill, an advantageous fruit power, the creative use of said fruit power (Kaku's building-decapitating Giraffe breakdancing), and sheer luck also shift the odds. Despite having an endgame power and Haki, Enel was a lazy jerkoff who had never pushed his own limits.
>>134091451
Pre time skip Luffy was too fast for his observation Haki
You can't restart your heart with a hole through your chest
>we've seen multiple examples of what happens to logias in the new world hax or otherwise
>people still over rate enel
I have a hard time thinking Enel was even Ace level. Enel lacked battle experience. All of his fights were with people who couldn't hurt him.
You don't get any stronger with that. He would need to run the gauntlet of the new world to improve on all of his weaknesses
Look at how bewildered he was running into luffy who could hurt him.
Now imagine hundreds if not thousands of pirates who were at luffy's level at that point in the story.
>>134091561
Nobody knew about haki because haki wasn't intended in the beginning. I'm getting tired of saying this all the time. Oda only started to introduce it after logia types got to a point of invincibility. He wrote himself to a corner.
>>134092770
>implying Oda didn't plan on haki from the beginning
Read the first chapter again and tell me how Shanks didn't use haki on that fish.
>>134092770
>Oda only started to introduce it after logia types got to a point of invincibility.
Without haki Smoker was invincible from the offset.
No way haki wasn't planned.
>>134092813
Having the willpower to stop an animal/person in their tracks with a glare is way older than shonen, dude. Haki was Oda taking that and the Skypiea psychic powers, and turning them into a quantifiable in-universe force. There's no evidence that it wasn't a retcon, whether you like it or not.
>>134092770
Crocodile seemed to know.
>>134093010
What's so bad about Retconning? Pulling from the series itself is better than pulling shit out of your ass. All the the forms of haki were taken from previous instances from the past. I agree I don't think he developed haki until maybre right before Sabaody, but I wouldn't say he wrote himself into a corner because he found a way to incorporate it into the story in a reasonable way. Even if he didn't foreshadow, it seems like he did, because he knows how to write. A lot of authors do something similar.
>>134092770
>literal manifestation of people's will and following their dreams
>not planned
>>134093770
Shanks wouldn't lose his arm if haki was intended. He would cover his arm in armament and break sea kings teeth and explain about it in the second chapter.
>>134093885
First of all this was 10 years ago in the opverse timeline, and second, Shanks already stated he gave up his arm for the new generation. He gave it up.
>>134093885
Shanks wasn't going to lose his arm initially, Oda's editor made him do it.
>>134093885
Obviously armament haki wasn't as fleshed out at the time, but conquerors haki sure was.
Observation haki was hinted earliest on Little Garden.
>>134092770
>i don't like haki
you don't like one piece
>>134093586
I personally don't think there's anything wrong with it. Stories are malleable, sometimes you need to shift certain details around if you want to take things in a direction you didn't plan on earlier. Only the really big contradictions are annoying, and OP hasn't had any of those so far.
CoC was hinted at chapter 1.
Observation was hinted at little garden.
Armament was hinted at Alabasta... then confirmed during EL
>>134093985
He gave up his arm in order to save Luffy. He jumped in front of the sea king. As far as his stare goes, it's just a willpower thing not haki. Just an emphasis on how strong shanks is. If Shanks used conqueror haki then Luffy and all the fodders around would've passed out. Get real plebs, Oda wrote himself to a corner.
>>134082621
Jack isn't a Devil Fruit user. He's literally a mammoth.
>>134094030
Can you stop speedreading my posts m8?
Everyone remember to do your best to appreciate Penguin today!
>>134094190
how he get his lard ass up the zou
>>134082421
all right hand man of yonkos are admirals
>>134093010
>Oda
>Not keikaku-ing all
