Which do you prefer? The old hand drawn cell style of anime, or the new hyper detailed digitally drawn style of anime?
>>133855870
>Left: Most intimidating and terrifying and powerful figure in the universe. Utterly feared throughout.
>Right: Laughingstock fodder lmao
>>133855870
Left
>>133856022
I'm not talking about the character itself, just about what kind of style each kind of technology brings.
>>133855870
Both
>>133855870
I think the Cell style is perfect.
>>133855870
Neither.
>>133855870
Honestly I like both but I prefer the old one just because of nostalgia probably blinding me as technically the new one is superior. Though I do miss the thicker black lines.
>>133855870
For a weekly series:
With budget? Digitally drawn
Without budget? Hand drawn
For a movie:
With budget? Hand drawn
Without budget? Digitally drawn
>>133855870
left feels grittier and darker. like gore and death or something could happen at any moment
right feels cartoony and safe
>>133855870
Right looks too clean and soulless
Left has charm and looks alive. Regarding art computers can never surpass humans.
The right one makes his head seem too large compared to his body. Not sure why.
>>133857532
Mostly this, Freezer is a character that is supposed to unnerve you. It has an ominous, very scary aura. The new one looks cartoony as not intimidating.
Right looks better this time. Usually it looks like soulless shit.
While I think super cyan color doesn't suit Goku, I think it looks perfect on Vegeta, especially on his new grey saiyan suit.
>>133858321
The picture on the right is fan art you dumb shit
>>133856844
heh
>>133858321
This has to be bait.
You do realize that anime is STILL hand-drawn, right?
The coloring and post processing just went mostly digital.
But the actual cells are still handdrawn on paper.
A lot of digital anime puts a lot of pointless details where it doesn't belong.
>>133855870
The armor, his grey head and gauntlets looks better in the right. His skin and face looks better in the left.
>>133859839
I disagree.
pepe > all
>>133855870
Left, hand old cell style has it's own charm. It's like When you watch CCS now, how everything is cell drawn just makes it so much nicer to watch, it's likeit just conveys the real love the animators had for the series better. The newer style just looks soulless, sterile and artificial.
>>133862298
>The newer style just looks soulless, sterile and artificial
This doesn't mean anything. It's still technically superior, making it overall better.
>>133862356
but thats not how entertainment works you braindead mong
>>133862356
It means everything.
Right just looks far too clean and shiny.
>>133856022
That has less to do with the style and more to do with the directing.
Any shot of freiza shouldn't make it obvious how tiny he is - in fact freiza should rarely be looking up at anyone.
>>133855870
The handdrawn gives his pink tissues a much more organic look, and his armor pauldrons look similarly organic due to minute differences in how each was drawn, compared to the perfectly uniform designs seen in the digital version.
That said the wear & tear details in the digital gelmet are a nice improvement over the more plain hand drawn version.
Personally I'm drawn to the older style due to nostalgia and the added feeling the imperfections give. The digital version looks a bit too cleanly drawn for my tastes.
I gotta say, the digital one definitely gives his muscles more visible tone
>>133862759
>That said the wear & tear details in the digital gelmet are a nice improvement over the more plain hand drawn version.
Thats a helmet? I always thought it was just his head.
>>133855870
I like the old coloration more for some reason.
>>133858321
>Left: Mad as fuck
>Right: "Oh shit now how do I explain Chichi this new hairstyle?"
>>133862869
Freeza clansmen grow armour out of their own skin.
It's both.
>>133862869
Well, whichever it is, the digital version gives it some of the roughness that the hand drawn skin has going for it. Which is partly what helps give him that unsettling, alien feeling.
>>133862951
Digital coloring tends to look saturated and pastel.
>>133855870
as long as its not CGI
>>133863543
Sidonia proved that CGI works.
>>133863563
No it didn't, actually
>>133863684
You haven't watched it then if you think that.
>>133863779
If you don't think that, you must not have watched it then
>>133863845
Don't repeat my posts you ass.
>>133863907
Repeat ass my don't, you posts.
>>133863563
>Sidonia proved that CGI works
Sidonia's CG looks like shit. The only anime to this date that makes extensive use of CG work is Tiger and Bunny.
>>133864038
Digimon Tri looked pretty CG to me.
>>133855870
truth be told the dbz movies didn't have that bad a style. The problem was the fight scenes
>>133864201
There is a difference between a movie and a series, anon.
>>133864319
Looked like 4 episodes to me.
>>133864479
Digimon tri is a movie split into 4 parts for online distribution
>>133864038
Majestic Prince
>>133864319
This one is a TV series too and done by Toei.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R04WbmalN6k
>>133864719
And they just decided to tack on OP/ED onto the movie four times?
>>133863543
>CGI
Etotama pulled off CGI integration quite well. It's a shame the show didn't do well financially.
>>133863543
There are shows that use CGI with an actual budget
>>133855870
handrawn adds character t each frame. digital makes it stiff and souless
>>133862461
Tragic.
>>133855870
Left has better proportions and the lines on his body and armour correspond better with his form, which makes the drawing appear more organic and sculptural. Right's head is too damn massive, especially his jaw. Also when it comes to battle shounen I think three-tone shading is unnecessary, simple goes better with this type of shows. Dunno, all this shine makes it look like turkish wrestling.
>>133865273
Everyone keeps saying soulless without defining what exactly that means.
>>133867129
Stock phrase which serves as a surrogate opinion for the layman nostalgiafags.
>>133865088
The animation looks really stiff and terrible in that webm.
Have some well-done cgi/2d integration.
>dat SSJ3 Goku vs Kid Boo animation
That was the highest point in the tv series when it comes to animation quality.
But then comes Uchiyama and fucks everything up.
>>133867210
>comparing Toei to KyoAni
Come the fuck on.
Why Krillin is so alpha? Dude stop talking about garbage, answer this.
>>133867407
He isn't. He's the punching bag of the series.
>>133867210
That webm is really freaking ugly though.
>>133867210
>stiff and terrible
>Posts completely still 3Dmodels
>>133867407
Someone here have a little dick, compared to the colossal of krillin.
>>133867407
>Krillin
Literally who?
>>133867210
Holy shit this super-speed pan was totally unnecessary. Obviously they were trying to hide the 3D models behind the speed, but usually you'd see something like this in some industrial or military segment where you're supposed to feel impressed with vastness of the area of plenitude of weapons and such. What were they trying to convey by this?
>HOLY FUSKING SHIT, LOOK AT HOW MASSIVE OUR BRASS ORCHESTRA IS
>>133867210
>The animation looks really stiff and terrible in that webm.
>Stiff
>Posts CGI where nobody moves
>>133864719
>Majestic Prince
Thank you. Now if someone could share some webms.
>>133862594
THIS
right also gave him a huge ass head, making him more manlet like
>>133867945
He means Kuririn.
>>133868423
Why didn't he say that then?
>>133868072
>>133867623
It's well-done because if you don't have the budget to make the animation not look stiff you shouldn't be trying.
>>133867288
Heh, good point.
>>133868490
cuz he dumb
Would Dragonball had been a better series had it been movies rather than TV? I could see how it would've helped with the pacing and stuff.
>>133869169
It works best as a manga
Dragonball art was pretty shitty, so in that case the new style is better.
>>133869176
That looks fucking terrible.
Absolutely no sense of weight.
This is mocap
>>133869272
The various artists in the original had their personal touches applied to the assigned style of the old show, But super looses all of that, making all the characters look more dull. The GC coloring doesn't help either.
I will always prefer hand-drawn, especially if there is a budget to properly support it. Some things like Gunbuster and Redline could never be done on the same level as digital. Everyone likes to poke fun at Super looking worse than the original but it really is true.
I absolutely hate digital animation and how it has become the standard. Digital animation practically ruined a lot of good/popular shows in the early 00s when it first started catching on, like Haibane Renmei, NHK, Rurouni Kenshin, Death Note, etc. They will always look like complete shit regardless of BD.
>>133869735
>Redline
"hand-drawn" is a misnomer.
Redline was done digitally the same way 99% of anime now is done digitally. Sketched out by hand on paper, then scanned into the computer frame-by-frame to be traced over and essentially inked and painted digitally and then special effects like lighting all added in.
"Hand-painted" would be apt, as it would directly refer to individual celluloid frames painted by hand before digital coloring became a big thing around year 2000.
>All these hipster faggots pretending that left looks better
![[KamiFS]_Dragon_Ball_Super_-_020_[720p x264]_[10bit]_[FD64086A].mkv_snapshot_12.55_[2015.11.22_21.39.11].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/IAxupHi.jpg "[KamiFS]_Dragon_Ball_Super_-_020_[720p x264]_[10bit]_[FD64086A].mkv_snapshot_12.55_[2015.11.22_21.39.11].jpg")
>>133855870
wait, did he respawn with his armor on, or do aliens just not wear cloths?
>>133870097
Freeza is always naked
>>133870097
He respawned with his armor on, after regenerating, somehow. You can see form 1 Freeza without armor right before he goes to the 2nd form in Z. He breaks the armor before starting to transform.
>>133869620
>The various artists in the original had their personal touches applied to the assigned style of the old show, But super looses all of that
What? Super's different artists are still very noticeable. Just compare some of the episodes that have the characters looking all bulky and such, closer to Z, while others follow Toriyama's new slim designs more closely.
>>133869176
>average cg anime dot web emm
>>133857451
>7 years
>>133869735
Death Note looked fucking great, fag.
>>133870388
great movie, also one of the few decent "what I expected" macros I've ever seen
>>133870326
>average
You don't know shit about anime CGI
New DBZ has ugly-ass colors... BUT, something tells me the old anime didn't actually have a better sense for colors and accidentally looked better because they were using real paint and it's harder to fuck up when using a color wheel on a computer.
>>133870406
For its time and budget, it looked pretty damn good with a great artstyle. But it never had an HD release, and any attempt at one would be utter garbage. Can you guess why?
>>133855870
Depends on which one was made using Powerpoint.
>>133870590
Why? Tell me.
>>133870661
It was never made beyond 480p. Early digital animation had low resolutions and only ever had DVD releases. Traditional animation has cells on a master film which are generally much more responsive to rescans for BD re-releases, like NGE, Yu Yu Hakusho, Serial Experiments Lain, and Gunbuster. Any attempt at an HD release would just be a shitty upscale or worse - I think Haibane Renmei's BD (a beautiful show from an artistic standpoint) was heavily edited and looked like trash. Of course some traditional series like DBZ couldn't receive a BD rescan because the master was lost or damaged, which is what eventually led to Kai.
Nowadays that doesn't matter so much with 720p/1080p being the new standard and improved digital techniques, but it really fucked a lot of series up.
>>133870888
This is why the frogs thought ahead - it's all in flash, so it's all vectors, meaning infinite scalability for 4K and beyond.
>>133869176
>the background moves on a different speed that the character itself, who despite being CGI is still animated with a different dimensional timing
Did the japanese watched Roger Rabbit?
>>133855870
The old, because overpainting 3D models isn't art.
>>133871526
too bad there aren't any good cartoons made with flash
>>133870888
>Of course some traditional series like DBZ couldn't receive a BD re-scan because the master was lost or damaged, which is what eventually led to Kai.
Huh, dude, no, we technically ALMOST got a good BD release of DBZ, they were called the level sets, which were surprisingly pretty good aside from the darker colors since they were degraded film prints that Funi have been used since ever and not the 1st gen ones that Toei has.
And then Funi cancel those because, oh no, too expensive, is totally the fans fault and not use for having such shitty poor planning and timing on our releases since Kai was still being sold, derp, oh we will release the series on BG again but this time pull an orange brick again by cropping and using emulator filter this time to the picture!
And Kai happened because Toei was creatively bankrupt and there was flack because of DB Evolution, so they just made KAI for a quick buck.
And if you are referring to the redrawn scenes, those were done because certain scenes did not look good after being cropped due to the show being a fricking 4:3 show, and of course, many scenes looked dreadful after being cropped to 16:9, and this was VERY noticeable on the orange bricks, so they re-animated them, they just did it like shit because toei was lazy and just retrace them in photoshop to cut corners, such shame, cause the actual remastered footage look good enough, even better than the dragon-boxes color wise, and it would been Fantastic is they weren't soft DNR like toei did.
However, Toei DEFINITIVELY still has the original film footage of all of their pre-digital era shows, sadly what they stupidly got rid of, was the original broadcast audio master tapes that contain good stereo audio.
Later with the Kai buu saga i heard that toei just upscaled the dragonbox footage and fucked the colors to cut corners, i would not be surprised in the slightest, since Toei has done upscales too on BD, case in point, Saint Seiya)
>>133872395
Fuck. The level sets were fucking incredible. Too bad they only came out with like 10 episodes or some shit. Those were as perfect as one could ask for.
>>133872395
Holy shit I didn't even know half of that. I was well aware of how Funi regularly butchered their releases with cropping, filters, and color correction. The lost audio is definitely sad, but honestly I'm a Funi dubfag even if early Funi dub for Saiyan/Namek saga was absolute trash. Kai is decent enough for me to keep it on my harddrive and I enjoyed the new dub (aside from 18 and Teen Gohan) and soundtrack, although I haven't seen anything from the Buu saga yet.
Cells are nice.
>>133872703
>>133872618
oooh brother, you ad no idea what you Americans have to deal with
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/home-video/na/
the short story being, BOTH FUNI and recently Toei had been pretty lazy and careless with their releases, in different ways, FUni for milking the DBZ part of the franchise dry with so many releases and re-releases, many of them mediocre, and Toei by putting shitty upscales, forgot to mention that in japan, the series were broadcast on HD television, guess what, UPSCALED.
and Saint Seiya also got a BD release, UPSCALED.
pic related is from the official BD releases.
Fun fact, in the forum i got these, they were talking about how Card Captor Sakura was apparently and "analog HD release" due to the color timing and color bleeding.
>Maybe that was one of those analog HD masters like they did for Card Captor Sakura. Might explain color timing issues (though that could be just because of DVD tech). From what I remember, I was OK with the image quality on the DVD sets anyway.
This couldn't be even more false, Card Captor sakura was remastered in HD from the original film elements, what most people have seen are screencaps taken from coalgirls subs which were adultered BD rips, featuring filters that made the grain static and smudge, saturates the colors, and created the color bleeding issues.
THE AUTHENTIC BLU-RAYS DIDN'T HAVE THIS PROBLEM.
>>133872618
>early Funi dub for Saiyan/Namek saga was absolute trash
That was Ocean Group, not Funi
>>133873028
>>133855870
I don't mind digital, but there's no reason for so many studios to make things unnecessarily shiny and bloom filled. Its just plain ugly seeing that
>>133865037
The cg was good, but it was a bad show
>>133869176
200 ping.webm
>>133872703
>>133873132
I don't want to be that guy, but could you tell me the source for these two?
>>133873125
Funi did dubbing for all parts of the series, and at least some of them were done multiple times with different OST mixes. The original original Funi dub of early DBZ was inarguably objectively garbage, and it didn't help that some cast choices like Frieza were terrible (even though the same VA for Genkai in YYH was perfect). I'd say Cell saga dub was good, with Teen Gohan and Perfect Cell doing it nearly flawlessly. Buu saga was relateable to Kai quality. For some reason even the remastered dubs for early DBZ were still really bad compared to the later sagas. In the original Funi didn't use Faulconer soundtrack until the Goku vs Ginyu fight either. I'm not entirely sure when different dubs and soundtracks were created and released, it's all too complicated to bother looking into.
There is also a dub that I think Funi did for DB before DBZ but it wasn't popular enough with the west and I might one day try to find it. It was either only for one of the movies or just the first season. Might not have even been Funi. But the popular Funi dub for DB seen today was done after their DBZ work so it's good too.
Ocean was also pretty bad. They had an even worse Frieza.
>>133873541
First is On Your Mark (Ghibli), second is a scene from the Patlabor TV show.
>>133873797
I've seen this webm tones of time but I have no idea what it's from.
>>133873797
Loved that movie. Was the first thing that made Gainax famous. Can't say that's a very good webm though.
>>133874038
Royal Space Force.
>>133874172
Yeah, the birate is shit because of file limits.
Its fantastic how much effort they put into it, despite almost bankrupting them into oblivion.
>>133874038
I only prefer CEL when it comes to mecha because I love the "old" feel.
Everything else I prefer the new and improved digital.
Fuck 4:3 though.
>>133867288
>Comparing the show Toie cares about vs KyoAni
ftfy
>>133868490
Gotta jump some walls.
>>133874524
>>133874524
So beautiful.
>>133872395
Wow, what an absolutely retarded and thoroughly awful studio.
>>133874524
And this is why you should never ever use CG in mecha shows. Ever.
>>133855870
Digital is best when it remembers how to vary line weight and use color properly.
That's the main reason newer Dragon Ball stuff looks really odd compared to the TV series. Even with the fancier animation it looks like they're pulling their colors from the model sheet at all times and everything has a very clean look to it.
Also, this isn't specific to Toei or Dragon Ball but I don't get why so much digitally animated anime uses bloom all the time.
>>133876092
Bloom makes things look fancy and futuristic. That's why it's used in so many films too.
is there a way to make digital animation look like hand cel'd animation? like emulating the lightbox on cels and shit?
>>133855870
I cant say I like both?
I love the old drawn style since for its time was able to define a character very well. even though frieza was small I could still tell he was powerful.
However I do like the new way frieza was drawn, its like a update he was given for free because technology has advanced and that animation changed. (despite because of this lazi-ness kicks in when it comes to shows quality wise, but movies are still good)
>>133876264
You would have to use different colour pallets, tone down the brightness, and add more detail to designs.
This would take more time and elevate costs.
This makes me wonder, how costly was it to produce anime during the cell era.
>>133876264
>watch that movie expecting the bestest animation ever
>download 4th release workprint final directors cut filmbuff approved version
>half the movie is just storyboard sketches with dialog
>>133877614
Executive meddling really fucked that movie over.
>All those old OVAs and movies where the backgrounds were paintings
>>133855870
Old hand.
>>133876264
at least put the non shit modern tv interpolated version sweet jesus
>>133878287
there is literally nothing wrong with interpolation
>>133878105
>You know part of a building is going to break in advance because the detail of the part is inconsistent with the background
>>133880991
Things breaking apart looks so much better in old anime for some reason.
>>133855870
Call me a stubborn oldfag but I can't stand to see some shows go digital. Especially in this case it just doesn't fit. It's modern day Simpsons level bad.
>>133855870
why do people debating over an old style vs new style like dont u have more time to debate other than that.
>>133855870
I actually like the digital style for Frieza. Most anything else though, hand drawn looks better.
Left. The digital linework on the right is too even, too... smooth, for lack of a better word. The lines on drawn Frieza are messy and uneven in a way that makes him look more organic.
>>133855870
The thicker old lines work better for Frieza, his helmet thing looks more 'bone', all the digital lines are too thin for the DBZ artstyle although the detail is superior.
The anatomical changes are a non-factor.
Traditional animation is hand-painted over transparent sheets using real cels, overlayed on backgrounds that look like straight up paintings. Shit looks so buttery smooth, so gritty and natural that it practically emulates life.
The digital shit animates inbetweens mechanically and looks artificial and plasticy as fuck, it only looks good on still shots and in key frames. There's no good shading in modern anime and they always use the paint bucket tool to color in the drawings. It just looks like shit in my opinion and it'll never show the same amount of raw effort that you could savoir back then.
It's a shame because everyone who knew how to animate back then is gone now and the industry is filled with Korean part-timers that don't know jack shit about what looks good. RIP golden age of animation.
>>133876264
Gundam Reconguista in G tried to emulate hand-drawn pencil lines.
And there's this French production which is digital but has the texture and colors of traditional.
https://vimeo.com/64386008
Hopefully we'll see more anime like this in the future.
>>133876092
Lazy digital animation can look cheap and plasticy, and I'd like to see more effort put in to solid colors and texturing rather than overlays or effects.
>>133870388
Redline was digital
>super skips over frieza training
YOU HAD ONE JOB
>>133867210
oh my fucking god. based purely on this webm i am never watching this show. jesus christ what an obnoxious clip.
>>133859089
The key drawings are still usually done with pencil and paper, but nowadays most anime studios use software such as RETAS Pro's Stylos HD or others to do the clean-ups. Technically, it's still hand-drawn, only using a tablet and stylus/pen instead of pencil and paper.
>>133881950
>The digital shit animates inbetweens mechanically
WRONG.
Even with the use of software such as RETAS Pro, each frame of in-between animation is still drawn individually. There is no such thing as tweening in these software, unless you are thinking of Flash animation.
The real downside with drawing software in anime is the lack of thick-and-thin lines; try as they might, the software still can't properly emulate the varying degrees of natural line depth that comes with drawing using pencil and paper. As a result, all the lines are of the same thickness. If modern anime wants to emulate the old "thick-and-thin lines" look, they either have to go out of their way to draw double-thick lines for certain areas, or just shoot certain scenes the old fashioned way by drawing them with pencil and paper and then photocopying the drawings onto cel sheets.
>>133855870
For DBZ specifically, hand drawn easily.
>>133855870
There is a great deal to be gained by leaving something to the imagination of the audience.
I think this rings true with all aspects of story telling.
There's something about the right image that gives away too much.
>>133855870
Both have their merits. As others have said, the left absolutely looks more menacing, but it's more a matter of directing than animation style. There's no reason the iconic shot on the left can't be done in digital animation and still look awesome... but the directing on the newer DBZ stuff is really bad and it really highlights the flaws of digital animation. Hand drawn animation was able to mask its own shortcomings with an attention to detail and good directing.
I love how krillin's cell phone ring is the one piece theme.
>>133870097
>>133870261
it's bioarmor
not something he just puts on
>>133855870
I prefer good animation production scheduling and key animators
>>133864876
>crunchyroll
>>133855870
The change to the new-ish style of digitally drawn stuff is the reason I haven't watched any new shows in years. So I prefer left.
>>133867970
That's exactly what they were trying to convey.
Seems like an asinine thing to do given that it's not really a particularly large one. I wouldn't have given it any notice myself if they had produced that sequence traditionally.
I haven't seen 3D used well by any studio yet.
>>133881952
>Lazy digital animation can look cheap and plasticy, and I'd like to see more effort put in to solid colors and texturing rather than overlays or effects.
Completely agree. Too bad majority of studios have little time to experiment or innovate
Hey /a/non what your opinion of the animated short "Klaus" and it's use of color, shading and texture?
https://vimeo.com/126287950
>>133885046
I think the scanning resolution and anti-alias function in retas might have a big effect to why modern anime keyframes looks so clean other than the fact they desire that type of style I guess.
It would be nice to see future anime have the same lineart and background fidelity akin to some of the well produced animations in cel era like eg, 08th ms,patlabor,GitS,outlaw star etc.
>>133855870
If they old style was better they wouldn't have changed it, therefore the new style must be better.
Checkmate.
>>133872395
Its not only DB, toei had a policy of getting rid of the master tapes from all the earlier shows. Only Hokuto no Ken got lucky and had 3 tapes with stereo mixed sound.
The funny thing is that even in mono, broadcast vhs recordings, sound 10times better than the dragonboxes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm9HhI6ctlc
>>133888222
Hey EncoderAnon, do you know why toei hasn't released a blu ray release of Heartcatch precure?
And how the progress with your Hunter x Hunter 1999 encodin?
>>133888315
No idea about Heartcatch, never watched it desu, i finished HxH 2 days ago and im checking the episodes for any error. Torrent within the week if i can get the seedbox working.
>>133855870
the right one if new anime would actually look this way instead of the new cutesy art style
>>133888446
Thanks for your hard work.
Patalabor
On Your Mark
Royal Space Force
Any other old science fiction anime with awesome animation I need to watch from this thread? I already seen Gunbuster.
![1448257134499.webm_snapshot_00.00_[2015.11.23_11.34.35].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/OZf3F2O.jpg "1448257134499.webm_snapshot_00.00_[2015.11.23_11.34.35].jpg")
>>133878387
You are literally a massive retard
>>133881950
Even Otaking realized how idiotic his obsession with 80s shading was. Digital coloring is perfectly capable of producing the level of detail that hand painted cels did, and on top of that cel animation is 100% not viable anymore.
