Aside from Rakudai this season, what other anime has Japan winning the war in the Pacific, and how did they achieve it? For example in Rakudai they won using a magical samurai.
>>133751901
>A world ruled by crazy military dictators
Might as well move to Burma.
>>133751901
That book wasn't so great.
>>133752000
Thought I was gonna get political intrigue and a look at nazi politics, got 300 pages of pawnshop shenanigans instead.
KanColle (at least they won at Midway)
>>133751901
>not knowing Deep Blue Fleet
>>133752152
I thought Kancolle had the shipgirls flashing back to their defeat in the Pacific War.
>>133752257
>translations never
>>133751901
Did somebody watch Man in the High Castle on Amazon?
>Japan wins WW2
It could only happen in fiction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuDmA3dfoR8
>>133752640
My thought exactly.
>>133753025
>It could only happen in fiction.
Stop the flagwaving, burger. Japan could easily have won the Pacific war if Pearl Harbor went as planned. The Japanese fleet was very modern (built mostly by the French and British), but no match for the American fleet mostly because of its aircraft carriers. I think in total Japan had three while America had seven or something like that. The idea was to bomb a significant portion of the American fleet and all aircraft carriers in pearl harbor. However, three aircraft carriers were on patrol at the time of the strike while one was not damaged to the point of being beyond repair. As such, the Americans were still able to bring four aircraft carriers to the field, more than enough to defeat Japan.
Had the Japanese struck when all American aircraft carriers were in port, all Pacific territories between Japan and America would be Japanese, maybe even Alaska as well. Continental America would be impossible for the Japanese to take, that I agree on (not without consolidating Japanese power in its newly conquered territories (including densely populated Indonesia) to the point where they can start conscripting the locals), but conquering continental America was never part of Japans objectives. They merely desired dominance over the Pacific.
>>133752640
How is that?
>>133754050
It's a Philip K Dick's book about a alternative 60s timeline in which Germany and Japan won the WWII. OP's image is more or less how the USA are partitioned after the war.
No good ones because you alt historyfags dont realize how difficult it actually would be to invade mainland usa.
Without magical bullshit explanations neither germany nor japan had the ability to do so.
>>133754015
hahahahahahahaha
Southeast Asia rightfully belongs to Japan. There was no massacre of civilians, Chinese soldiers in plains cloths were dealt with.
>>133754234
His story seems plausible
You could only exert dominance over the seas with ships on WW2
Without ships america would be at a big disadvantage
>>133754214
>muh armed population
That is not a significant factor at all
All it would do would be delay the conquest of some major regions
You should put more faith in your national guard than some untrained rednecks carrying rifles
>>133754015
Even with a successful Pearl Harbour they hadn't have the industriar force to overcome the USA. By the start of the war, Japan had actually more battleships and aircraft carriers than the USA (which didn't have nor need a big fleet at the time). By the end of the war the USA fleet outnumbered even the initial Japanese fleet.
![[Bunny_Hat]Macross_24_(430B0E2A).mkv_snapshot_15.59_[2015.10.21_05.08.33].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/TbGtWi1.jpg "[Bunny_Hat]Macross_24_(430B0E2A).mkv_snapshot_15.59_[2015.10.21_05.08.33].jpg")
>>133754319
Because the US didn't have a completely unscathed Atlantic fleet, the Japanese wouldn't have to destroy west coast shipyards, and physically put boots on the ground in Hawaii
>>133754407
Also, anon is ignoring the fact that the USA fleet had the support of both the Britain and Australian fleets, meanwhile the Germans couldn't afford to send any ship to the Pacific theatre.
>>133754015
? the japs didnt get the carriers and the oil with their attack on pearl harbour, two things the burgers needed to fight
and even if they did get the carriers, burgerland would have popped out half a dozen in a few months v 1 jap carrier built for the whole year or something
and on the infantry v infantry level japs were smashed hard
completely outmatched
just look at the battles, failure after failure
+ the reds wanted to grab japland to themselves with their dirty commie hands, millions of ivans would have come down on them
maybe instead of capitulating in 45, it would have been on 46, 47 etc. the loss was certain
>>133754319
Except, no matter how many ship Japan destroyed, America could have just built more. America was an industrial giant back then, even if Pearl Harbor had completely annihilated the Pacific Fleet, they could have never touched the harbors and steel yards they needed to in order to actually cripple the American war effort. Pearl Harbor was an attack based on a flawed premise, that the Americans would have rolled over after having their main force in the region curb stomped, which was never going to happen.
>>133754347
The problem with invading America is not really the armed populace, it's the fact that you have to cross a fucking ocean to get there and America is fucking huge, in general the Japanese and Germans never had the logistical capabilities to do anything more than harass the American mainland, an invasion would have been entirely impossible.
>>133754533
This is a usually ignored fact. Japan lost the naval war against the Allied fleet, but they also suffered an even bigger defeat in China against the Red Army.
>>133754533
If pearl harbor was ravaged or even invaded, war would have been really difficult for the USA.
The supply problem would have been really difficult to overcome and in the meantime, India, Australia and China could have fallen.
The success of Japan was tied to German success. If German had failed, Soviet would have recked the Japanese on the land, making the long term success impossible.
>>133754015
Educate yourself
http://www.combinedfleet.com/economic.htm
Japan attacking the US was basically suicide by cop.
This thread is /pol/ bait.
>>133754407
>By the start of the war, Japan had actually more battleships and aircraft carriers than the USA
I don't think this is correct. Japan was only aiming to have more ships than the US Pacific fleet. If you add the Atlantic fleet in the US probably beats them on numbers.
>>133751901
The anime surely had a terrible job adapting I guess because I don't think anything in the show implies that.
In fact I picked it because the alternate history premise but until now didn't see a single thing about it.
>still no toppu wo nerae
Disappointed senpai
>>133754801
USA had (in total) 5 large carriers when the war started, Japan had 6, all in the Pacific. You can argue that American carriers were larger, but still, the USA set sail several times more carriers than Japan each WWII's year.
>>133754015
I'm not even a burger. The Japanese were genuine shits in WW2 and had no chance of winning.
>>133751901
So here's the thing Japan had less than a Zero chance of "wining" let alone landing an invasion force on American soil. So then OP is dumb...
Japan was having trouble even conquering China just because of how fucking big it is and how many people there were, how could they ever gave conquered America?
>>133751901
God that would be so great.
The most plausible way for Japan and Germany to win the war is to have the Soviets join them. Just change history in such a way that Strasser instead of Hitler rises to power.
>>133754533
>>133754015
>They merely desired dominance over the Pacific.
This is wrong too.
They didn't want dominance over the pacific at all. They wanted to re-orient the Asian economic sphere around themselves. To accomplish this, they would extend to two different rings.
The inner ring and outer ring. They realized a prolonged war was impossible, so the hope was to beat the US so handily in the first 6 months that the US would be willing to negotiate for peace, during which Japan would surrender the outer ring they had captured back to the US to make them happy.
The Pacific was not the goal, merely the tool.
God, this is why I avoid /his/ like the plague. Armchair historians everywhere.
>>133755035
As a flip, I approve of this.
>>133751901
improved map of murica?
>>133754015
>Japan had three while America had seven
>>133751901
That's so laughably impossible that I can't take things like that seriously.
Anime about WW2 fighter aircraft when?
The Wind Rises doesn't count.
Just FYI
>>133755884
>History is altered by those who win.
>>133755884
Oh turkey kohais
>>133755496
Historian here, can confirm.
>>133755884
GREAT
MARIANAS
TURKEY
SHOOT
>>133751901
How the fuck would there be a neutral zone? Does this guy honestly think they wouldn't fight for all those 100,000 square miles, if only so they could keep a better eye on the other side of the continent?
And where's Canada in all this? Did they not want it? It's the second largest landmass in the world, you'd think that would be important. Sure, it's butt-fucking cold for most of it, but they at least learned from their ski trip to Moscow, right? You know, considering they still won fucking WWII anyway?
>>133755884
It's important to note, that was the first major battle where proximity-fuse anti-aircraft shells were deployed in the pacific This is a major reason why they were slaughtered so handily. It wasn't just because of the inexperienced pilots, even the few experienced pilots they had were bewildered at the 'accuracy' of allied anti-aircraft guns in that battle.
>>133751901
>Anime where Japan wins WW2
>Rakudai
I don't think it was ever stated it was WWII and not just some "great war" like in Mahouka
>>133756283
The neutral zone is basically just the natural barrier of the Rockies to keep the Japanese and the Germans away from each other, because Cold War shenanigans.
After seeing that map, I thought they were talking about that new show on Amazon adapting Philip K. Dick's novel.
>>133756283
Apparently, Dick couldn't imagine anybody declaring war on Canada.
>Dropping Man in the High Castle on the same day as Jessica Jones
>>133756669
Kind of is. It's a shitty book, though. Alternate Historical Fiction is stupid in 99% of situations.
>>133755287
Operation Barbarossa ws the reason why Hitler lost
He got too greedy, too fast.
With all the troops he lost at the soviet front he could have withstood any allied assault on central europe to a stand-still
>>133754015
>country with 3% of the world's industrial output defeating a country with 30% of the world's industrial output
>in a conventional war
>ever
>>133756506
It's World War 2.
It was never stated which side they were on though.
>>133756799
That's arguable. He probably WOULD have fought them to a standstill, but the allies could very well have cracked Germany if they tried enough for some odd reason.
The allied supremacy in production and supply is NOT to be underestimated.
>>133756715
Why,Man in the High Castle is the better series overall
Marvel plebs are going to get BTFO
>>133754015
Is this a copy-pasta? Because no one can be this retarded and autistic to type all that out.
>>133754681
And if supply was made incredibly hard to start back up, and America was struggling to start their war in the Pacific, I think they'd be much more hesitant to throw their hat into Europe. We only entered the European theater because we were making gains in the Pacific I think? It woke up American nationalism. Without America D-day likely doesn't happen, so I'm not sure what would happen with Germany. Likely still get assfucked thanks to Barbarossa.
>this thread
>>133756873
> but the allies could very well have cracked Germany if they tried enough for some odd reason.
I doubt that, the only way the allied could crack into germany if the soviets didn't join in was with atom bombs.
If his soviet boner wasn't as big as it was he could have even negotiated an alliance or cooperation treaty
But what would happen is on the fiction side and I don't want to play as armchair WW2 general
>>133756931
Germany declared war on the US within a week of Pearl Harbor.
>>133756811
Do they own China and Korea in that universe?
>Reading Dick's weakest book
Not this desu.
>>133756931
If the Allied hadn't started their offensive, Germany likely had ended under Soviet control, and maybe France too, given that the British didn't have enough strength to launch an offensive on their own.
The question then would be if Japan had been able to stop the Russians and Chinese from eventually disembarking in Home Islands and taking over the country.
>>133756972
Like I said, "If they tried hard enough for some reason".
I'm not wanting to get into fiction either, but Stalin hated Hitler, I sincerely doubt that would have happened.
>>133756587
But it's too large. Fine that they have a DMZ like in Korea, but it's a zone larger than most countries. That's just stupid.
>The Neutral zone
>It's not actually neutral
Explain this?
>>133756972
The Wehrmacht wasn't even mechanized. The most common form of supply transportation was by horse. You don't win a war like that.
>>133754214
>>133754620
However if the Germans were able to completely decimate American morale and foster their own elements within the country to revolt; say, several nukes on major American cities (if they'd finished the race first) and complete success in Europe, if you could get American public support to collapse, and destroy quality of life with embargos and nuclear strikes, you might be able to foster revolts or even capitulation. THEN you could partition it.
Administering it would be another thing.
>>133756984
Okay, I felt I was getting something wrong. Thank you.
>>133757023
I think the war may have lasted longer though. Before Normandy let the Allies tear through France and the lowlands, were the Germans really that close to losing? IIRC they only lost Barbarossa because they were stupid and pushed in way too far despite the Winter.
Even if the Soviets did eventually win I think WW2 would extend by a couple years, though still not enough time to buy Japan anything. I doubt they could hold all of China even if they had it. Eventually after the war in Europe they'd funnel Mao weapons and cash while fighting with the Nationalists and they'd be kicked back, Soviets would just flood into Korea and Manchuria. And they'd probably just force Japan to release whatever Pacific possessions they gained back to America. (I don't think they'd be brazen enough to just hold up a middle finger to the world at that point, even if Stalin wanted to.)
>>133756587
I guess, but considering people can still live in places like Colorado, I'm still skeptical. Wouldn't they at least try to push the borders up to the mountains?
>>133756706
This will never not be funny to me.
>>133756873
>The allied supremacy in production and supply is NOT to be underestimated.
It's questionable if the US would have joined the war unless the soviets got in on it first.
>>133757145
>several nukes on major American cities
How. Crossing planes across the Atlantic is impossible at this time (especially without a return course), and Germany had no Navy capable of transporting one such plane.
>>133757192
I feel like that's something different. Roosevelt definitely wanted to go to war against Germany.
>>133757122
Most armies in europe still used horses for transportation so this is just a moot point
Hitler lost a ridiculous amount of troops in the soviet front, troops that would have been on france in D-Day or africa or even on a reverse D-Day on england
But again, thats on the realm of fantasy so I won't delve into it
>>133757225
I DID IT IN DARKEST HOUR THEY COULD DO IT IN REAL LIFE
>>133757225
I can get nukes and airplanes that fly the whole map in civilization by the 1800s
I think you're wrong.
>>133754015
The US had japan beat in both industry and manpower. It was retarded to think Pearl Harbor would take the US out if the war
>>133757225
That's where an action-thriller movie comes in at the end of the 40's where Nazi Germany has all but cinched success in Europe and in the wake of a massive defeat and crushing economic and morale depression we follow two mischievous Fascists who take smuggled in plans and steal materials to build and detonate a nuke in America for the Fuhrer!
>>133755945
Stay mad nip
>>133756931
>We only entered the European theater because we were making gains in the Pacific I think?
No. Germany declared war on the U.S within a week as per the alliance. Roosevelt immediatly made the executive decision to focus the majority of the U.S war effort on Germany and the European theater in order to save England from the Nazis.
I think we should all take a minute to reflect on what an absolute cunt MacArthur was.
By making the war in the Pacific about himself he caused threw away a lot more men and material than he had any right to and as a military leader he was completely hopeless.
The very definition of a politician general.
>Making nuke
>any country outside of US
Heisenberg and Nishina both said separately that it can't be developed in this wartime because it's difficult in manufacturing terms.
>>133757288
But if you made it so entering the war in the Pacific was a struggle, the victories wouldn't come as easy then, maybe more defeats would follow, and then that does a fuck ton to morale. Which really drove the industrial war machine in the first place.
>Have a tactic that requires your troops to suicide
>Wonder why you lost
>>133756931
Do you have any idea just how much war material the US has been producing and sending to their allies through lend-lease? There was a non-zero chance the US wouldn't have been able to overcome the losses at Pearl Harbor. And that's not factoring the Navy they had over in the Atlantic.
>>133756799
Operation Barbarossa was a preemptive strike
>>133757248
>>133757270
PLEASE!
THIS IS A SUPER SERIOUS HISTORICAL DEBATE.
SUPER
SERIOUS
>>133757225
>How
Not him, but I'd say Germany would have just waited the US out. It's not like the US could launch an invasion of Europe without Britain anyway, and then later on Germany would have had ICBMs and dominated the world.
>Roosevelt definitely wanted to go to war against Germany
Sure, but the american people didn't. Remember that it was Germany that declared war on the US, not the other way around.
And anyway, D-day would have looked a lot different if the whole might of Germany was on one front. I don't think the US would have even risked it.
I think Gunbuster's history had Japan joining the allies instead of axis and thus not getting bombed to hell and back.
>>133757366
This is a discussion about what if? fiction, games are fiction.
>>133756811
Nice translation but it was "great war" in original.
>>133757352
No, I am still learning all the time.
>>133757333
But didn't Germany have the potential industry to make a nuke? Before all hope was lost they seemed to be up to some crazy fucking things.
>>133757338
Americans fucking hated the Japs. Nothing short of absolute defeat would have ended that war, and the US wins every war of attrition.
>>133757407
I'm inclined to believe you but do you have any proof?
>>133754015
Excuse me, /a/ is for shameless otaku not brainless weebs.
>/out/
>>133757402
Such a narrative cop-out. It doesn't even make any sense, who would they ally against? Fucking Germany, on the other side of the planet? Japan had zero interest in that. Unless Stalin become braindead and decided to ally with Germany, and than attacked Asia, Japan has zero reason to be involved in that scenario.
>>133757349
If you're talking about the banzai charge/mass attack it was used far more sparingly than Hollywood and the accounts of 2nd/3rd line POGs to their grandchildren would have you believe.
The US, being on the offensive, actually made more mass attacks than the Japanese ever did. The only difference is that US Marines didn't shout "banzai" when they did it. They just shouted "attack" or the rough equivalent of "MURIKA".
>People get mad at US for dropping the nukes that killed thousands and ended the war
>No one ever thinks about how many millions they saved by doing it
China sure as shit doesn't feel the same way
WWII Jap was just as bad as Germany
>>133757192
No, it's not a question of if the US joins the war or not, but whether or not Japan attacks the US or implodes from the lack of resources from the embargo first. Japan could not sustain their war machine without the oil from the US. They could either go on with their conquest without those resources (not happening), give up (even more of not happening) or take it from the then US territory Philaphines. Due to their full retard leadership, it is a matter of when, not if, Japan attacks the US.
>>133757550
But did they use samurai swords?
I'm happy Japan didn't win.
It'd be a closed off, just starting to thaw country like China nowadays I think. We'd have no anime or Japanese cultural exports, it'd be completely traditional. If they held any major part of China and the Pacific we'd probably deal with them economically like the Chinese, or perhaps not, since we'd have burning hatred for them. I don't think Nixon would make a famous visit to Tokyo in the 70's.
Shit would suck
>>133757561
>tfw the Fire Bombings of Tokyo killed more people than either of the nukes
>No one cares
>>133754015
Get a load of this weeb. I guess they won the culture war since there are idiot weebs like this one reciting this shit.
>>133757609
Or run headlong in machine gun fire?
Why don't wars happen like this anymore. Full frontal assault of American will. Is it because everyone we entangle ourselves with fight guerrilla-style?
>>133755884
>Not posting the Superior Battle
>>133757430
Germany stared their supposed nuclear program way before the US did. The US still managed to research, make and use a nuclear bomb before they did. That alone should be enough to tell you the Germany had shit for research in nukes.
>>133752599
>Kancolle
>small c
>Beginning on March 27, 1945, 1,000 parachute-retarded influence mines with magnetic and acoustic exploders were initially dropped, followed by many more, including models with water pressure displacement exploders. This mining proved the most efficient means of destroying Japanese shipping during World War II. In terms of damage per unit of cost, it surpassed strategic bombing and the United States submarine campaign.
>Eventually most of the major ports and straits of Japan were repeatedly mined, severely disrupting Japanese logistics and troop movements for the remainder of the war with 35 of 47 essential convoy routes having to be abandoned. Operation Starvation sank more ship tonnage in the last six months of the war than the efforts of all other sources combined.
>After the war, the commander of Japan's minesweeping operations noted that he thought this mining campaign could have directly led to the defeat of Japan on its own had it begun earlier. Similar conclusions were reached by American analysts who reported in July 1946 in the United States Strategic Bombing Survey that it would have been more efficient to combine the United States' effective anti-shipping submarine effort with land- and carrier-based air power to strike harder against merchant shipping and begin a more extensive aerial mining campaign earlier in the war. This would have starved Japan, forcing an earlier end to the war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Starvation
>>133754015
>built mostly by the French and British
Mate, in 1941 most Japanese ships were made in Japan and more than half of all their destroyers were more than 10 years old. The high command knew each day they weren't bombing Pearl Harbour was a day their navy got shittier.
>>133757594
On that front, yes. I'm still not so sure they would have committed troops to the european theatre without soviet involvement. Hitler declaring war on the US doesn't guarantee that.
I think we can all agree that Japan would be crushed no matter what, but the topic was whether Germany could have succeeded if they didn't have to deal with the soviets. (Which is a very unrealistic scenario of course.)
>>133754015
Maybe if the Krauts had also pulled off both Sealion and Barbarossa as planned.
Even then the yanks would only sit still for five years or so until building up enough ships to do whatever they like.
>>133757617
>we'd probably deal with them economically like the Chinese
Who are 'we'? The US? Assuming Japan did win (however unlikely), what do you suppose would happen to the US?
>>133757527
Well, it's not that implausible. It just requires Japan to not become Yamato Damashii post WW1. Really, all of the full retardness Japan had during WWII was because they listened to the wrong people. Remove that one element and I can see Japan allying with the US.
>>133757677
I think it's a lot smarter to fight to win instead of fight to look badass (and then die uselessly in a hail of machine gun fire)
>>133757693
>still not postimg superiorest battle
>>133756706
>no one wants Canada or Mexico
>>133757561
>>133757621
Not to mention the fire-bombing of Dresden
>>133757782
Yes, America. Well, like another anon said, it'd probably be impossible to take the mainland US. And Japan had no interest in it. They'd just force a declaration of surrender, consequently shitting all over America's pride. I'm not sure what would happen in Europe, but even if we one I'm sure the public animosity would probably cause a radical president or two to get elected. Might slide into a depression.
>>133757814
The Japanese suicide attacks were immensely effective at striking a fear into the enemy. When you saw a wave of Japanese coming headlong at you, that's fucking terrifying.
>>133757746
>the topic was whether Germany could have succeeded if they didn't have to deal with the soviets. (Which is a very unrealistic scenario of course.)
Stalin never intended to start a war with Germany in first place. Of course the question is that ideologically the Nazis were practically obliged to start a war on the Soviets, even if it was unviable.
>>133757788
Impossible, Japan was at America's throat since the end of World War One. Don't forget that the military effectively ran Japan, and they were completely butt-blasted over the Washington naval treaty, America wanting to be a Pacific power and fact they were cock-blocking the jap's oil and rubber supplies.
>>133757707
The US employed former german scientists. (Which admittedly Hitler in all his wisdom scared away earlier.)
I always wonder in stories where one or two gigantic powers occupy most of the world.
Wouldn't the sheer size of the country make it impossible to control all that land?
>>133757527
If they sided earlier with the "interwar Entente"/Allies they may have been accepted on the prospect that their colonial efforts in China could be brought to bare to create a buffer zone in Asia against communism, as well as creating the possibility that CHINA WOULD ONCE AGAIN BE EASILY ACCESSIBLE TO TRADE WHICH WAS A BIG DEAL.
Japan would have wanted this because it gave their national ambitions something approaching international approval. Allowing them to continue eating China unmolested, and continue trading openly (which might have prevented the Pacific War even if they didn't ally).
I'm pretty sure there was a US diplomatic paper published 1934~ about this (unlikely) possibility, though it wasn't necessarily about a war against Germany, because at the time it was debated that Soviet aggression in Europe was more likely.
>>133757788
>Remove that one element and I can see Japan allying with the US.
Against who exactly?
>>133757932
Muh Vichy France/Russia/America/Australia/etc
>>133757932
Yes. You'd have to break it up into multiple administrative regions and even then I don't think it'd be possible to stop them from going their own way unless you had direct military presence.
Do people seriously think that Japan had a chance?
Just look at this.
>>133757932
Most likely. Even Germany had to create the "Free France" because occupying the totality of France would cost too much money.
Why is this thread still alive?
>>133757746
I think Stalin had mentioned that he was surprised by the Germany attack not because it was a stupid move, but because Hitler did it first. Stalin had every intention of attacking and invading Germany. If it wasn't the US declaring war on Germany, it would've been on the Soviets instead. All things considered, Germany was absolutely correct in their decision to attack the Soviets first.
>>133757883
Well, regardless of Stalin's wishes, war was pretty much inevitable between the nazis and soviets. The ideological differences and the simple threat of a unified western Europe would have led to the same situation, though perhaps at a late enough date for it to affect the outcome of the war.
>>133757997
It's almost incomprehensible just how many Soviets died
>>133757997
>>133758086
Russians were the real life example of zergs
>>133756587
>because Cold War shenanigans
you accidentally russia and america
>>133757902
That's because the Japanese got butthurt (rightly so) over getting nothing for their part in WW1. They pretty much emulated the Superpowers at the time that might = right. The US only embargoed the Japanese after they started invading shit in China.
>>133758127
Chinese too.
>>133757902
Japan was grumpy about the naval treaty, but there wasn't antagonism coming from the west until the invasion of Manchuria. If the government was stronger able to reign in those rogue army officers responsible, things would have turned out differently.
>>133758086
The Soviets weren't ready for the war. Most of the combatants were civilians which were given a gun and sent to the frontlines, meanwhile the Germans had actual soldiers who had already fought several years in the war.
If something WWII probes that you can win just by throwing more tanks and planes to your enemy's face than he can manufacture, even if those are driven by farmers.
>>133757225
>how
Rockets? Germany had an excellent rocket program going.
>>133758086
How does that saying goes? WWII was won with British intelligence, American steel, and Russian blood.
So why did Japan even try to attack America, why didn't they just help out Germany and the rest? Weren't they over-extending?
>>133756931
Nigga all but a couple ships that got destroyed in pearl harbor were repaired to fully operational status 6 months later, 1 year later they doubled the size of their Pacific fleet.
It took Germany all it had in the Atlantic to overcome US industrial capacity and they were only able to do that for one month and the crashed hard afterwards.
There was absolutely 0 chance of Japan winning against the allies
>>133757145
>completely decimate American morale and foster their own elements within the country to revolt; say, several nukes on major American cities
Would just make the U.S angrier really. The only reason why Japan surrendered was because Hirohito forced the Japanese government into surrendering as he was tired of seeing his country decimated by war.
>>133758308
Because they couldn't win their war with china without attacking and occupying allied territories
They already got BTFO by the soviets once and had no intention of trying that again
>>133758308
You must know IJA and IJN carried the war as if they are from other countries. It's widely admitted even by Japanese.
>>133752640
Downloading third episode
>>133757387
>Sure, but the american people didn't.
Just like the American people didn't want to go into WW1. Sure people didn't like the idea of the war, but they held no love for the Nazi's. It was easy work to whip up nationalistic propaganda to stir the citizens into a blood hungry fury.
>>133758369
So China wasn't part of the allies at the time they attacked?
>>133758428
Damn, their emperor should have slapped them the fuck up and told them to concentrate, the axis losing seems to me like it was just really shitty planning, like Hitler invading Russia, and Japan attacking America
>>133758302
German rocket tech wasn't anywhere near ICBM level. They were barely managing to get low payload rockets across the English Channel.
>>133758469
>So China wasn't part of the allies at the time they attacked?
China was a chaos and the "official" government surrendered the country to the Japanese.
>>133755316
10/10
>>133757736
>This was all done in preparation for what was to be the bloodiest single land invasion in the History of the World.
>>133757693
How is that a "victory"? Those are some heavy casualties.
>>133758527
So Japan had some land in China but the allies took the rest then? Wouldnt fighting them in China be better than fighting America?
>tfw you symphatize with the nazis
>>133758127
Nah Germans were just very well trained and dug in.
Take a look at the Manchurian campaign. Casualties for the Soviets were very low.
>>133758308
Hawkish generals went full retard, basically.
>>133757932
>Wouldn't the sheer size of the country make it impossible to control all that land?
Ask Britain how they did it.
>>133758469
>Implying the emperor wasn't just a figurehead.
The emperor effectively had zero power. Even when nukes hit and the emperor wanted to surrender, the military leaders were willing to throw a coup d'etat and kill the emperor to continue fighting.
>>133758637
Are the japs just bad at fighting?
>>133758692
They only had experience fighting farmers in China.
Of course they were shit.
>>133758692
Whenever they went against any industrialized country they got pummeled.
Philippines and Singapore aside of course.
>>133758692
Yeah. The Chinese were simply worse off due to a massive civil war. The Japanese really had no idea how to effectively wage war. Which makes sense since they were emulating the forms but not the functions of the major powers at the time.
>>133758308
We'd embargoed oil to Japan to so they would stop raping everyone in China and taking over the Pacific. Japan having no oil of its own or anywhere in its newly taken territories needed to find a source of fuel and fast. Since all the sources were occupied by either the Soviets or the Americans, they chose the Americans under the belief that we would be unable to effectively prosecute a global war across two oceans. They were wrong.
>>133755035
>15000 killed during the bombing of Pearl Harbor
>300000 killed during the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima and many more due to radiation and cancer for more than 70 years and starting the cold war
>"AMURICA DID NUFFIN WRONG!!"
>mfw
My god is that the average mindset of an American?
>>133758712
>>133758750
>>133758763
kek, lot of good yamato damshii did them then, they should have gotten gud instead of shooting country hicks and believing anime bullshit
>>133758308
>why did Japan even try to attack America
Because it was only a matter of time before the US involved itself anyways to protect its financial interests - which is exactly what happened in 1916. At least with a preemptive strike Japan had a chance to alter the balance of power in the Pacific.
>>133757824
>not present
>every single fucking time
ayyyyyyyyyyy lmao
Why do the evil faggots always have the coolest uniforms?
Nazis and Imperial Japan both had great ones.
>>133758811
Plenty more horrible shit than that was done in World War II, and none of it was acceptable. I think most can agree that it would be better if these things didn't happen.
>>133758811
>Bunch of smelly looking savages rape and murder your people
Literally ISIS, look at everyone's reactions and compare it to the past, people are calling for the nuking of the middle east basically
>>133758872
Because order = bad , chaos = good.
>>133758823
We wouldn't have gotten anime bullshit if they didn't get btfo. Do you think the military government which was all about masculinity (no homo) would allow it?
>>133758811
Maybe they should've started suing for peace right after the first few major bombings, which is what any government that cares about its people do.
Oh wait, they didn't, to the point where they killed off the Okinawans.
>>133758811
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre
Japs killed upwards of 300,000 CIVILIANS
This shit was literally a game to them
>>133758811
Fucking liberals.
>>133758872
I think Hugo Boss designed the Nazi's uniform. So of course they look stylish.
>>133758946
I meant anime bullshit as in believing that they would win through sheer force of will/ the will of the emperor/ spiral power or some shit
>>133758946
Anime used be oozing with masculinity.
>>133759018
Post every show that aired concurrently and make that argument again.
>>133758872
You won't say that IJA floppy dog ear cap is cool will you?
>>133758571
The engagement was between what was basically a tiny U.S escort fleet and the remaining bulk of the Japanese Armada. This task fleet was basically a token guard left to defend the U.S transport ships carrying supplies to begin the final step in the island hopping campaign and the eventual invasion of the home islands. Not only did the task force keep the transports safe, we manged with vastly inferior ship fire power to sink ships several times their size and tonnage and freak the Japanese command out so much they decided to retreat.
>>133758308
Japan needed oil, they could only get it from the Dutch East Indies, the only reasonable routes to get that oil back to Japan was past the Philippines, which were an American protectorate. Therefore they needed to knock America out early to prevent future American interference.
>>133759136
They must have realized they had no choice against a superpower like America though right?
>>133758965
What a horrible example of shitty Asian typeset.
>>133758571
Check out the balance of forces involved. Google USS Johnston.
>>133759064
How is Japan so inept at war? Is this why they make so much shounen? To escape from the reality that they're just really bad at fighting?
>>133759064
Quite. Battles have a larger context and wars, a political one.
In the grander scheme of things, there was not a lot of willpower left in Japan to keep it up after the absolute beating it was getting. Whether or not they needed to be nuked is literally an academic question, but whichever way you think, the string of defeats out of country, and the full scale bombing (whether the conventional bombs had them feeling defeated, which is reasonable, a lot of people alive today recall them and their families felt miserable and defeated, or if you think the Atomic bomb was needed, whether to cow the Japanese or really, to intimidate Russia.)
That's another thread where it gets complicated. Even if it wasn't strictly needed to use the bomb to defeat Japan, it showed Russia and everyone else, but especially Russia "look what happens when we use our Bomb, which we have and you do not". This did not last, as they needed a Bomb after that, but that is a whole other discussion.
>>133759179
They knew they couldn't win a protracted war against a determined enemy, that's why they hoped to inflict a massive blow in a decisive attack that would make the Americans unwilling to fight on and sue for peace rather than suffer further losses.
You could say that they learned the wrong lesson from their victory over the Russians at Tsushima.
>>133759179
Smart people probably knew they would lose, but Japan had an ideological goal to become a great power and dominate East Asia, so they had no choice.
>>133759179
Step 1, disable the USN's Pacific Fleet.
Step 2, consolidate hold on East Asia while the Americans have no power in the Pacific.
Invading America was never really on their radar.
>>133759350
They could have become a cultural power like chian was for a thousand years in that region.
>>133759179
Yamamoto basically said that. The other military leaders didn't care/listen and did it anyway. As it hasn't been clear enough, the Japanese military leadership went full retard post WW1.
>>133751901
Lol, there's no way Germany and Japan would've ever been able to invade the US.
>>133757561
>this is what burgerboos actually believe
Japan had practically lost before they dropped the nukes.
It can't be helped.
>>133759493
But they weren't going to say we give up.
>>133759454
That wasn't the goal though. They wanted to be an imperial power.
>>133759463
>didn't care/didn't listen
The entire WW2 happened because of a pissing contest between the IJA and IJN.
>>133757902
>jap's oil and rubber supplies.
>>133754015
Who gives a fuck about the islands? The eastern shipyards would've pumped out a new fleet and then the japs would've been crying for mommy.
>>133758964
And America also spent over a year dropping Napalm on mainland Japan with B-29s and killed over 300,000 civilians. This is in addition to the 300,000 that died in the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_raids_on_Japan
>>133759583
>Japan
>killed and raped civilians for shit and giggles
>>133759540
oh yeah, but there was a hundred different ways to do it but they decided fucking shit up would have been the best way which destroyed all its relationships and backing the losing side
>>133759583
More chinese were killed than japs overall by the war's end, not all of the former were combatants (if you can call a farmer with obsolete bolt action rifles, 'combatants').
>>133758965
Westerners can't into numbers, so they put the number in letters?
>>133751901
I wish this had happened. :/
>>133758571
>Taffy 3's few destroyers and slower destroyer escorts possessed neither the firepower nor armor to effectively oppose the Japanese force, but nevertheless desperately attacked with 5 in (127 mm)/38 cal guns and torpedoes to cover the retreat of their slow "jeep" carriers.
> In response and without consulting with his commanders, Evans ordered Johnston to "flank speed, full left rudder", beginning an action that earned him the Medal of Honor.
>Now the Japanese and American ships were intertwined in a confused jumble. Gambier Bay and Hoel were sinking. Finding targets was not difficult. After 0900, with Hoel and Samuel B. Roberts out of the fight, the crippled Johnston was an easy target. Fighting with all she had, she exchanged fire with a swarm of enemy ships, four cruisers and numerous destroyers.
>However, it was the Japanese themselves that first recognized Johnston ' s incredible actions that day: As a destroyer from the opposing fleet cruised slowly by, Robert Billie and several other crewmen watched as the Japanese captain saluted the sinking Johnston.
>But in exchange for the heavy losses for such a small force, they sank or disabled three Japanese cruisers and caused enough confusion to persuade the Japanese commander, Vice Admiral Takeo Kurita, to regroup and ultimately withdraw, rather than advancing to sink troop and supply ships at Leyte Gulf.
>This battle is often depicted as one of the major "what-ifs" in World War II. If Kurita had continued the attack instead of withdrawing, it is possible that the U.S. could have suffered heavy losses in troops and supplies, which would have delayed their capture of the Philippines. If Kurita's and Halsey's forces met, that would have been the long awaited "decisive battle" where both sides would have finally been able to pit their largest battleships against each other.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_off_Samar
>>133758964
Nanking's population at that time was under 150,000
>>133754015
PLEASE be bait
>>133758469
>China wasn't part of the allies
No. China was fighting the Japs before WWII even started in Europe. Although the Nationalists were the official government, they and the Communists fought each other just as much as they fought the Japs. It was just a huge mess back then.
Even today, China is still a bit unhappy since their contributions don't get talked about much after having lost the most people after the Soviets during the war.
>>133759787
Ok, Abe.
>>133759787
If you bothered to even read the small summary in the article, the massacre wasn't just in Nanking, it was also at the capital
>>133759787
And the Jewish population in Europe during WW2 was under 150.
>>133759834
>which destroyed all its relationships and backing the losing side
To be fair, their contributions were basically nothing except for dying and locking up some of the Japanese troops. Neither the KMT nor the CCP inflicted any significant damage to Japanese forces.
>man look at Americans
>a nation of shopkeepers and factory workers
>no match for a nation of TRUE WARRIORS
>no need to plan for a long war of attrition
>Kurita turn
>>133759962
>Neither the KMT nor the CCP inflicted any significant damage to Japanese forces
What gives you that idea?
>>133754015
>>133754407
>>133754533
>>133755496
This is great that we can do this, but
>>>/his/
There is a board for this now.
>>133759834
I like the part where China is trying to retcon history to make it so Mao was at Yalta representing China.
History nerd here.
No, Japan could not have won WW2. If somebody told me to come up with a scenario wherein Japan could have won WW2, the world would have had to be so different that the thought experiment has no point.
First off, no, nobody can invade America and win. The logistics just don't make sense. If we're strictly talking about winning WW2, then it could have happened if the USA didn't join the war and Japan was left free to go wild across Asia. Of course, that means none of the other wacky scenarios here would happen.
If you want Japan to legit invade the USA and "win" traditionally, then we're have to go to an alternate timeline completely. In that world "Japan" would have to already include a large chunk of China before the 18th century. Then when the country goes through the Meiji Reformation, it would have become an industrial superpower dwarfing the European powers and the US. In that case, yeah, it could have won WW2. We would have seen a 20th century dominated by Japan instead of the USA. However, such a hypothetical nation wouldn't be "Japan", as it would be dominated by Chinese ethnicity.
So basically, no, "Japan" could not have "won" WW2.
>JAPAN
>a society which submits the individual needs to the collective
>kills tallied for the squadron not the pilot
>most pilots fought solo, shitty radio tech didn't help
>aces were kept on the front lines as long as possible which resulted in them dying, with shit for replacements
>gear often was poorly maintained, poorly supplied, absolute shit logistics because not glorious enough
>members of a conformist society wanted personal glory
>AMERICA
>society which prizes individuality and freedom
>kills tallied for the person, not the squadron
>most pilots fought in teams, to overcome Zero's maneuverability
>aces were pulled from the front lines to train rookies, sacrificed personal glory for the greater good
>maintenance and logistics polished and working like clockwork
>members of an individualist society working together for the greater good
from technical point of view in japan, their mainstay fighter mitsubishi zero was totally fragile to make up for their crucial shortage of materials and prioritize its mobility, so even one hit was fatal
this led to the significant loss of their capable and skilled pilots
additionally, they made light of the development of radar system despite which was invented by japanese known as Yagi-Uda antenna
but in any case, the completion of atomic bomb would have determined the outcome sooner or later
Alright nerds, how good was Japan's anti-sub warfare?
Surely an island nation would take something like that seriously.
>>133758811
Listen you little political activist shitstain.
It's not that MURICA!!! did no wrong, it's that the japanese under their imperialism nonsense were a hell of a lot worse.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes
Read that for a bit, the mere fact that most of their war crimes can also be called "Massacres" should tell you a lot, let's not forget the fact of forced labor camps, the rape of and pillaging of entire nations across the coast of asia, executions beheading-style, women being repurposed as sex slaves for military officers, etc.
There's a reason why most of Asia has an unending hatred for the Japanese, and it's not because they censor their porn (Those barbarians)
>>133760412
Uh-huh, and you'd think a country dependent on imports would take the defense of those imports seriously, too.
RIP in Papa Johns, merchant fleet
>>133758811
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_war
Read up, buddy
>>133760412
America made Germany look like amatures in submarine warfare with their performance in the Pacific.
>inb4 mad germaboos
>>133760412
>spubmarines comprised less than two percent of the U.S. Navy, but sank more than 30 percent of Japan's navy, including eight aircraft carriers. More important, American submarines contributed to the indirect decapitation of the Japanese economy by sinking almost five million tons of shipping — more than 60 percent of the Japanese merchant marine.
>>133760552
At least they have a porn industry. The rest of asia has either no internet, or have to rely on shitty cam sites to jerk off. I'll agree it's pretty barbaric, I mean how can I enjoy a teasing handjob video without seeing the hand or the job?
>>133760614
Well to be fair Americans actually tried to protect their shipping convoys so the Germans had a tougher job.
Meanwhile japan lost hundreds of ships in mere months to mines because incompetence.
>>133760701
Why was Japan so shit at war?
>>133760701
All those poor Kantais.
>>133760738
They came from a xenophobic island nation and their only experience in warfare came from killing themselves and bullying other asian peasants and native tribes who can barely defend themselves.
>>133760835
>Russo-Japanese War
>>133760863
>russia pre-WWI
>what is Khalkhin Gol
>Manchuria Campaign
>>133760835
Their xenophobia also meant they no tradition of recon or intel gathering. They composed elaborate plans while they expected the enemy to just sit there and take it. They also did not expect their codes to get broken.
>>133755035
So when do we get nuked for all those crimes?
>>133760552
Most of Southeast Asia is actually okay with Japan now. The ones who are least so are Singapore, who are still hilariously weeaboo.
Source:
http://www.mofa.go.jp/files/000036094.pdf
>>133761334
>we
Who?
>crimes
What crimes?
>>133757332
>he caused threw away a lot more men and material than he had any right to and as a military leader he was completely hopeless
Explain.
I guess the magical samurai had with him the superior katana.
>>133755035
Bullshit, in Gate I was told Japan invented human rights.
>>133757270
If the middle ages didn't happen there could have very well been planes and nukes in the 1800s.
So this year we've seen, what? War crime denial, historical revisionism and completely inane alternate history wank that exists for the sole purpose of self-fellation.
When are we gonna get a series that just outright says Imperial Japan didn't do enough at Nanking or Korea or whatever?
>>133762095
When has anime denied war crimes? Old farts did it but who cares about them?
>>133761933
>>133758134
>rightly so
?
>>133762134
Shokugeki no Soma claimed that Imperial Japanese Army never starved Allied prisoners, in fact they gave them perfectly good roots to eat but silly gaijins don't know how to eat root vegetables and think Japanese force them to eat inedible tree roots and think that is a war crime.
>>133759535
Actually they had been in talks with Russia regarding a surrender since 1944. They would accept any terms so long as their Emperor was able to stay in power.
>>133762458
That dumb cooking shit? Show me.
>>133762437
In the Treaty of Versailles, Japan wanted the inclusion of a racial equality clause. The other allies turned it down, which Japan interpreted as further evidence of the western powers seeking to sideline Japan.
>>133762458
