Is it possible for a mangaka to create a darker and more mature series and still be successful? Or is it impossible with the moe/fighting/powerup/shounen dominated manga industry?
Let's say a mangaka would create the equivalent of Game of Thrones; could it be successful? The theme of drama, backstabbing, killing off characters, allowing the bad guy to triumph and perhaps even darker subjects? Would you want to read it if it was well made done?
Yes.
>>124792393
Berserk exists
Shounen: dark? yes, mature? no
Shoujo: nah
Seinen: that's the only way it can be successful
Josei: maybe
>>124792393
So... Berserk?
That's extremely possible. In fact, it happens all the time. You need to read more manga.
Was punpun succesful?
>tfw OP confuses manga for anime
>>124792574
more than successful
Manga is an actual artistic medium, not a marketing sinkhole like anime
Try reading something not meant for 12 year olds or horny manchildren for once in your life.
>>124792574
Yes, although it apparently began to sell less towards the end.
>>124792393
kek, Game of Thrones is a shounen, mate.
>>124792393
>The theme of drama, backstabbing, killing off characters, allowing the bad guy to triumph and perhaps even darker subjects? Would you want to read it if it was well made done?
Forget Seinen manga, even kid manga like One Piece did that.
>>124792393
GoT is the naruto of book
>>124792393
you're forgetting what board you're on.
There's loads of dark shit in anime, but it just so happens that by the time it gets serialized and made it turns to shit
>>124792729
>naruto
more like death note
edgy, overhyped, pseudo-mature and parts of it may be considered good while the rest of it is shit
>>124792393
Its harder for a series to be dark and edgy and be successful when most Nips prefer lighter material.
>>124792393
>talking about poor man's Berserk when Berserk is already a thing
Fuck back off to /tv/.
>>124792393
Boku no Pico changed my worldview.
A few anons mentioned Berserk and another one mentioned Punun. What else are there?
>>124793135
Do your own research. Lurk more, search by tags on MangaUpdates, etc.
>>124793135
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?board=16
Really my only problem is that manga is getting a bit too dark and mature.
I need more HIGH ADVENTURE with beautiful visuals.
>>124793375
Manga and anime can't into adventure, HxH had potential but it just turned into grimdark shit
>>124792393
Anime and manga characters are never even close to being realistic people, which is the main reason I think that it's so hard for a mangaka to create an actually mature story. I've always just assumed that Japan can tell mature stories, just never in manga or anime. Maybe in books or movies or something, but cartoon characters are almost always going to act like cartoon characters.
>>124793590
Actually manga tends to tell more mature stories than television (though tv isn't the most mature medium).
>>124793590
>I have read 3 manga
>>124793590
>anon talking about realistic people
Well, that's just rich.
>>124793590
tl;dr: all manga are Naruto
>>124793590
You should go and google Dunning–Kruger effect.
like GoT but, it is about as dark and mature as your average shounen manga.
Might as well say no anime is more intelligent than Eva
>>124793488
Sengoku Youko is pretty good in that department
but I want moar
/a/ is so fucking casual when it comes to knowing stuff about manga. It's disgusting. We need a separate board to discuss our Chinese comics away from you pleb shitters.
>>124793812
A-and that doesn't apply to me, right?
>>124794108
Wouldn't that just fill the board up with said pleb shitters?
Like anime is a buffer that usually deals with the retards so manga is usually ok.
>>124794108
Isn't the manga community to small to warrant an entire board?
>>124794108
The population boom and death of ezmode manga distribution killed most manga threads above tumblr-tier one-page-thread level. Majority of mangafags on /a/ have all been online-reader casuals for a long while
>>124792393
>Let's say a mangaka would create the equivalent of Game of Thrones; could it be successful? The theme of drama, backstabbing, killing off characters, allowing the bad guy to triumph and perhaps even darker subjects? Would you want to read it if it was well made done?
Battle Royale? Bokurano?
>>124794340
/jp/ exists for a much smaller demographic of what was once /a/'s population, Heck most of the people who cared about VNs stuck with here or /v/ anyway
There's lots of manga that deals with mature themes and topics.
It doesn't get translated because no-one Western wants to read it.
>>124792393
Only in the short term.
Most series begin with that premise and then become hugely successful because people want it.
However, in order to keep going they all become shounen/powerups/ S RANKU!!! bullshit. Because you can keep writing that stuff infinitely and keep making money.
This is why Manga is the worst medium ever. All the series have great beginnings but then fall into a loop of bullshit to keep perpetuating themselves.
At least, any Manga that wants to make money. Complete stories told directly without filler do not make as much money. Stories that have a logical beginning, middle, and end are not able to go on infinitely. Manga has a financial incentive to stretch out the middle until everyone moves on to another series.
>>124794522
That's kinda the opposite of what manga is
Unless you are talking about WSJ then you're right on the mark
>>124792393
Dorohedoro is the closest thing I can think of to GoT where there is no real primary antagonist and every character is just doing their own things for their own reasons. Although I guessthe "MC" is technically the primary antagonist.
>>124794522
Are the mangakas forced to do it to milk the show, or did the mangakas fail to come up with more and better ideas? I have always wondered this...
>>124794497
>It doesn't get translated
Yeah a lot of casuals like >>124794522 severely underestimate how much manga is actually there. The shit they look at through shitty online readers are from an accurate picture of the medium's diversity.
>>124793590
You know nothing about either manga or fiction.
>>124794522
>e-every manga is shonenshit for children like Naruto or One Piece I-I swear!
>>124794522
Magazines that aren't Jump are a thing, you faggot.
>>124792660
That's because it got worse.
>>124794838
Yeah but magazines that aren't from Jump aren't popular.
>>124792393
Legend of the galactic heroes, some gundam series
>>124794108
It's the plague of 4chan I guess. You can't expect to see anything but generic capeshit on /co/ either when it comes to Western comics.
>>124794903
Oh look another shounenfag who thinks he knows about manga.
>>124794903
>Look at me I'm a mouth-breathing living shitpost I know the manga industry front to back!
>>124794379
>buzzwords: the post
>>124794838
>>124794718
>>124794598
The OPs question was about "being successful". I guess you can make the counter argument that other manga are successful or at least can help the author pay bills, but I'm talking about mass market commercial success when I am defining success.
Things that are huge financial successes are recognized outside of Japan. In fact, that kind of cross-cultural reach is probably a criteria for success.
You can argue that I've never heard of series X/Y/Z that meet the OPs criteria, but then can you really call them that successful?
What is the seinen demographic in a nutshell?
Obviously it won't get hugely popular like One Piece because Japan doesn't like maximum edgy shit in general and prefers cute stuff.
>>124794522
>only reading shounen manga
>only reading manga from popular magazines
Not everything is milked you idiot, because any magazine that isn't hugely popular - basically everything but Jump or WSM - doesn't fall into that at all.
>>124794964
Let's face it
Everytime we talk about manga, we're REALLY talking about Jump, it's the only magazine that matter like DC/Marvel to western comics.
You can't blame OP and his supporters for confusing all of manga for Jump manga because it's understandable that's the only manga they do know. All the other manga are obscure hipstershit.
>>124792393
>The theme of drama, backstabbing, killing off characters, allowing the bad guy to triumph and perhaps even darker subjects?
Well you just describedShingeki no Kyojin.
>>124794903
Is it possible to have a thread without morons like you feeling the need to shitpost? /b/ exists for a reason.
>>124794962
I'm poorly informed as fuck on comics, but it's my impression that critically lauded things like Asterio's Polyp are far less popular/prominent than critically lauded manga.
>>124795022
This
Only battle shounen are talked about because only battle shounen manga ever get popular.
>>124794903
>implying you even know of other magazines.
>>124794108
>a separate board
Solves nothing. If anything, you'll end up being the containment board for Naruto.
>>124795022
Look faggot, popularity in Japan and popularity outside Japan are very fucking different. Don't think that just because you, as a fan outside of Japan, have never heard of a series must mean that people in Japan aren't aware of it either.
>>124795135
why should I? they aren't worth noting
except Square Enix and other Shueisha mags
>>124795022
> Things that are huge financial successes are recognized outside of Japan. In fact, that kind of cross-cultural reach is probably a criteria for success
Foreign success is not a criterion for success, and thinking that shows you know very little.
>You can argue that I've never heard of series X/Y/Z that meet the OPs criteria, but then can you really call them that successful?
Being heard of by some under-informed fuck in Clapistan is also not a criterion for success.
Fuck, you're literally claiming that all popular series are power-level battle shonen, and you think you're qualified to judge what's successful? There are seinen series and comedy shonen that have outsold almost every single battle shonen.
>>124795209
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
>>124795281
>thread about manga that's popular
>gets mad when I declare unpopular manga irrelevant
>>124795052
>All the other manga are obscure hipstershit.
Just because 90% of the west doesn't read anything but shounen manga like SnK, OP and Naruto doesn't mean it's fucking hipster shit. The ratio is obviously not the same in Japan and the mass market in the west for manga is the exact same market as Japan: young teenagers. It's like saying anything but Twilight and Harry Potter are obscure hipstershit.
>>124795209
Just because stuff doesn't sell on the same level on Jump doesn't make it unsuccessful.
>>124795135
Not him, but is there really any reason to care about magazines when I get all my shit online and hear about new things to read on /a/?
>>124795331
Magazines usually have manga aimed at people with similar tastes, so you can find manga you like.
>>124795135
Read
>popularity in Japan and popularity outside Japan are very fucking different. Don't think that just because you, as a fan outside of Japan, have never heard of a series must mean that people in Japan aren't aware of it either.
This applies to you as well. The average manga reader outside of Japan needs to rely on scanlations. You fags have a very limited pool to choose from and thus your perspective is skewed as fuck that it's not even funny. Again, I repeat, some series you might think of being obscure may not be so in Japan.
>>124795331
If we're talking about popularity/sales in Japan. Yes. See above.
>>124793135
Fuck off with your rec shit, lurk more or get the fuck out of here.
>>124795321
Stop confusing popularity in the west as being congruent with popularity in Japan.
>>124795474
But we are from the west so popularity from the west is the only one that matter. you fucking weeaboo
>>124795526
>murican logic
