>Sato talked extensively about the influence of the moe movement on recent anime series. Moe, or "cute" culture, examines ideas about art, feminity, and thematic complexity vs aesthetic and design. Space Dandy draws influence from the energy and debate around moe culture, and the idea that "maybe you don't even need a story" to have a story.
>"We thought of Space Dandy as a kind of counter-approach to this overall trend," Sato said, citing the popular Puella Madoka Magica as an example of a moe-inspired anime that went deeper but was kinda heavy.
>"We thought about making Space Dandy with a kind of strong story that makes series like Space Dandy and Kill La Kill stand out so much. We wanted a counter-idea that was more focused on comedy."
>Commenting tacitly on Kill La Kill's fanservice-laden scantily clad female characters, Sato also joked that they also wanted to head away from the "flat-chested" moe style toward the direction of "big boobs," by way of commenting on the expansion of moe culture's ideas about what could be cute and interesting.
>Space Dandy also encompasses a deep respect for '80s culture, Sato said, noting the series' affection for early technological gadgetry that seems amusingly outdated by today's standards. He also noted that Kill La Kill likewise references '70s culture and early shoujo manga and anime.
> "I also feel that there's a real movement right now, a real popularity in looking back at the Golden Age of anime in the '70s and '80s and thinking about how that style can be incorporated into new anime."
>Sato said that one aspect of that nostalgia dealt with convergence culture and collaborative fandom. He cited the explosion of interest in Attack on Titan as a "return to interest in the Big Riddle, or the Big Question," another theme of Golden Age anime.
>>122556656
>the Big Riddle, or the Big Question
Hitchhiker's anime confirmed.
The man is not wrong. Moeshit is cancer.
He sounds like /v/ incarnate. No wonder space dandy was so shit.
>the influence of the moe movement on recent anime series.
>recent
Was this guy born in 2005?
>>122556656
He's just trying to pump up his own shows. Moe stronk.
Sounds like the kind of stuff Yamakan said before everybody started hating him and refused to buy his shows and he lost his job and became an untouchable for a while.
>>122556656
But Space Dandy and KlK were fucking awful and only appeal to the lowest common denominator of teenage boys that laugh at boob and poop jokes.
>>122556656
>head away from the "flat-chested" moe style toward the direction of "big boobs,"
oh dear god please no more cowtits
>>122556656
>> "I also feel that there's a real movement right now, a real popularity in looking back at the Golden Age of anime in the '70s and '80s and thinking about how that style can be incorporated into new anime."
That's why space dandy was so popular in japan
I disagree that it's "dying" per say.
I'd say more the over-saturation in the current TV market is making only 10 out of 1000 moe shows profitable due to competition and weeding lower studios out.
From this I could see studios want to venture into new genres and take ideas from other mediums in order to make a more interesting product that will appeal to the Japanese market.
Space Dandy was not made for the Japanese however, it was made for the West so that's not a fair example to use, however I feel like we are in a way going back to making more diverse anime and bringing back 90s sci-fi as well as strengthening the SoL genre.
>>122556656
Great counter approach, Space Dandy appealed to redditors and the toonami crowd and didn't change shit in Japan. Guy's almost as much of a hack as Watanabe.
Moe means too many things to different people, We'll never know if its alive or dead.
>>122556656
>Moe
>Trend
>Over
Now that is some funny ass shit.
I suppose when you are a filthy westaboo and consider the western market of any importance or relevance to the anime market this is what you actually believe.
>>122559395
>I'd say more the over-saturation in the current TV market is making only 10 out of 1000 moe shows profitable due to competition and weeding lower studios out.
We don't know that.
>>122556656
Same shit people have been saying since the mid 90s. Maybe I'm 20 more years they will finally be able to fell the giant.
>>122556656
>Madoka: 68k
>Space Dandy: 1k
And this guy matters?
>HAHA, moe is over! It's totally done you guys! Finished!
>Not that moe is gone, why don't you try my mature show for mature audiences, Space Dandy!
>...please for the love of god, someone give a shit about my show. You remember Cowboy Bebop right? It's just like that I swear, please buy the BDs.
Honestly don't think it leaning one way or the other. Personally don't favor one genre over another and tend to enjoy most things including dandy and klk. Sure the west probably enjoys more dandy styled things over something like yuru yuri but its always been that way.
>>122556656
>Space Blandy writer
>having any sort of weight on this matter
Loving every laugh
>>122556656
>>122559136
That's what anime is, basically.
Sure is relevant news.
https://www.dailydot.com/fandom/dai-sato-anime-boston-cowboy-bebop-space-dandy/
>Last updated Mar 23, 2014, 10:15am CT
>reddit dandy
>good
Pick one
>>122556656
YES! BRING MANIME BACK!
>>122556656
Thank you based Sato-san for saving all of anime from the moe-trash.
>>122556656
>writes a shitty not-cowboy bebop show
>seems to be completely unaware of 萌え in manga and anime
>wants to move away from DFL
What a fucking faggot. Hope he dies of bowel cancer.
Space dandy was shit
>The MOE trend is over
Again? This fag doesn't even understand moé
But Dandy was moe.
>>122559672
>>122559630
It's the same mindset of the Manime fags in the west. Their shows don't sell so they come out crying about how MOE is killing the industry.
>>122559844
don't worry anon he already shits cancer from his mouth
>>122556656
>moe trend
>moe movement
>>122556656
This guy is the next Yamakan.
how is something moe? If I get the chest burning feel (moeru) from watching a character's acting, is it moe?
>>122560031
They don't seem to get that sales are how people vote for what they want.
relevant
>>122556656
>moe style
How does an actual Japanese person in the industry not understand what the actual word means?
Is he going to rant at gundam for hazing Zakus?
OFFICIAL AND OBJECTIVE BEST AND WORST AOTS of 2014
BEST:
Winter: Mikakunin
Spring: Gochuumon wa Usagi Desu ka?
Summer: Locodol
Fall: Yama no Susume
Worst AOTS of 2014:
Winter: Space Dandy
Spring: Ping Pong
Summer: Free!
Fall: Sword Art Online
>>122556656
>>122556880
Just to clarify, this guy wrote 4 episodes of Space Dandy.
Space Dandy is a fantastic show where creative freedom is given to the staff of each episode with a lot of guest directors and writers. It's not a show where you'll like every episode, as a result.
>>122560291
Gen Urobuchi 'There was no moe in the 80s.'
>TP: You’re known for “darker” stories. What compels you to explore thus? What message are you hoping to convey?
>GU: I got into anime during the 80s. Back then, there was no moe. Just about everything was “dark”. I am just trying to bring old sense into new styles.
>http://animediet.net/conventions/otakon-2012-gen-urobuchi-interview
>>122560563
>Spring: Ping Pong
This is probably bait but it's true. It looks like horse shit. People cry "muh artstyle" or how the story is what matters but aesthetic is important in a visual medium, if it looks like shit it's likely shit at it's core.
>>122560563
>Best: Mikakunin
>Worst: Space Dandy
That's some shit taste right there. Mikakunin is one of Dogakobo's worse shows.
>>122560618
Fuck you, tainted by the influence of disgusting western culture=SHIT.
Watch this thread get 404'd because mods hate when we discuss anime as a whole.
>>122560674
>most anime is drawn like shit or poorly animated
All anime confirmed for shit.
>>122560674
>>122560563
Couldn't expect more from plebs, /a/ truly is the pleb heaven now.
>>122560193
Even more then rabid fans of either camps I dislike people like you who feign ignorance more.
>>122560239
What a worthless post.
Where shows like Galaxy Express 999, Yamato, and Gundam 0079 cute and family friendly?
Because those are of the most culturally important shows Japan has produced for their country.
>>122560674
Ping Pong's abortion of a visual style does, indeed, make it automatically shit despite any of its other possible good points. The number one rule of art is to not show contempt for your audience, and Ping Pong's art style shows contempt for its audience.
>but it's an adaptation of the manga's style
Choosing to adapt the manga's abortion of a visual style shows contempt for the anime's audience.
>>122560644
What a surprise, all these bad writers have no idea what they're talking about.
>>122560700
contain thy weebness
>>122560711
*when we get asspained over anybody saying something that disagrees with the /a/ hivemind
>>122560797
now now, you're the one who's rabid
>>122556656
Not a fan of moeshit but SD was crap and so is his opinion.
>>122556656
>Mar 23, 2014
keep crying
>>122560806
>this butthurt
>>122560798
>Galaxy Express 999, Yamato, and Gundam 0079 cute and family friendly
Yes, they were.
>>122560563
>>122560674
>>122560806
So much cancer, it's like you people don't even know what's the point of the medium.
>>122560812
>ZZ, DBZ and Maison Ikoku in one season
Damn
>>122560806
but things that may not look visually appealing can still be good.
>>122556752
Back to reddit casualfag.
>>122560906
To sell a product.
So Space Dandy failed at the medium.
>>122556656
love MOE
watch my reviw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc13HLw4z4E
>>122560906
One could obviously say that at its simplest, the point of anime is entertainment, but if one goes just a little deeper than that, it's about making the viewer feel things.
Ping Pong's visual style made me feel like throwing up for 24 minutes per episode.
>>122559365
>That's why space dandy was so popular in japan
Most of its fans are kids who watch power ranger
>/a/ thinking they know better than a guy who works in the industry himself
Stay buttdevastated.
>>122560980
>implying moeshitters aren't the BBT fans of anime
>>122560994
>>122561020
Pathetic. Just, pathetic.
>>122560968
Enjoy you're fat, ugly waifu.
>>122560812
>Sooper Mario bros
>>122560904
>so new it hurts
>>122560812
>summer
>1 show
Golden age I see
>>122561113
>47 episodes
Geez I wonder why.
i sure iahaz '- fagglots
>>122559680
Holy shit now that I think of it even NGE had a dig at moe in episode 26 with rei running with toast in her mouth,hah well thanks anon you've made me REALLY FUCKING DEPRESSED THAT THIS WONT GO AWAY.
>>122561059
The entire point of anime is to sell a product, LN adaptations are big 25 minute commercials, kids shows are 25 minute commercials for toys, etc.
Are you so retarded as to think people fund tens of thousands of dollars for anything else?
>>122556656
>head away from the "flat-chested"
>>122561039
But it does, you notice he's not saying that moe isn't popular or what people want. Just not what he personally wants to make, I love how people always try to spin this into something it's not. He knows his place unlike the writer of space dandy.
>>122560906
If you get appeal by looking at your pic related, turn off your computer kid
>>122560563
>Snorefest ga Usagi Desu ka
>Good
I like the characters, but the pacing is kinda shit like Black Bullet
>>122560994
This. Gochuumon wa Usagi Desu ka? was objectively a more successful work of art than Ping Pong.
>>122561039
The studio owner looks really sad
>>122561039
relevant.
>>122559680
I was just about to post this. People LOVE cute as means of escapism from the harsh reality of the world.
Moe is dying just as much as pictures of cute puppies and kittens are
>Away from "flat-chested" and toward "big boobs."
>implying that /a/ aren't the most casual anime watchers
They don't like anything older than the late 90s, and they only like what's popular and use that as their sole guage of quality.
>>122561278
>70's
>golden age of anime
Yeah because those few shows that everybody remembers represent the whole decade.
>>122561182
Moe dying is as likely to happen as the year of the Linux desktop.
>>122561309
That isn't /a/, that comes from the vocal normalfag groups that only know what exists on netflix
>>122561386
Linux desktop? Where? When?
>>122561309
>everyone on /a/ has the same mindset
Please anon. Besides even the biggest casual can see Dirty Pair is a master piece.
Post YFW cowtits.
>>122560980
Kill yourself, anime-ruiner
>>122561278
>not liking flat chest
>>122561362
>>122561039
Japanese tastes are so shitty it's not even funny
I like a good mix between "moe" and not. My brain feels fried if I watch only SoLs so I like to balance it out with shows from other genres.
It's clear that the industry knows where the money is at (moe), but as long as they still make other shit I don't see it as a major problem yet.
>>122561390
>That isn't /a/
He's kinda right though. Watching the most popular seasonal show and disregarding everything else is a very /a/ thing to do. I think that's why alot of people love this place.
Why does it have to be one or the other? They can both be good they can both be bad. This is retarded
>>122561039
What people buy shouldn't matter to that guy because he would still be stuck in a third rate studio that does nothing but inbetween and 2nd key animation.
Moeshit that is just for the sake of being cute without any other actual depth to it is garbage and I don't see how anyone could defend trash like that. Shows with cute girls that have good characterization, intelligent themes, etc are another history. Please try to make this distinction more often, /a/.
>>122561390
Normal > Autistic
Deal with it
>>122561547
>not watching at least 10 shows per season (I'll let you off the hook for this season, though, as this is the worst season I can ever remember)
Fucking casuals.
>>122561547
>disregarding everything else
Are you kidding plenty of people watch tons of shows.
Dependent on the season I would say the average fag watches 6-10 shows.
>>122561661
Kukuru a cute and a miracle of the universe. Those fucking outfits and hairstyles of hers give me such goddamn heartboners.
>>122560644
Urobutcher is a chuuni who wrote a fanfiction of Equilibrium and his writing style has not progressed since then. Taking advice on cultural trends from him is like taking advice from someone on Deviantart.
>>122561661
I hope you're not implying that Joshiraku is one of those shows.
The "Whale" business model probably explains why hackneyed moeshit keeps getting made despite it's decline over recent years.
>inb4 "moeshit"
Moe is lazy cookie cutter model for making characters.
>inb4 South Sark
I use it because everyone probably has seen the EP but it's core idea has been around for centuries.
I used to tend bar at a busy high end club and 60%-75% of my tips for the night always came from less than -5 people out of the 50+ people I served that night.
Most shows aren't even very moe centric anyway. People will always say nonsense about moe. Not much has changed the past few decades.
>>122561720
It should've been plural in my first post, showSSS.
But yeah, that's still what /a/ is for: talking about stuff that's currently airing. Most people here also got into anime only a few years ago and have zero interest in ever going back (especially not 30~ years like the OP was talking about) when there's a crapton of new stuff coming out all the time.
>'the moe trend is over'
>never actually said this
>>122561797
'I don't see any passion in today's anime industry' says OreImo director
>Q: Any techniques you used back in the 90s that you feel is kind of a lost art nowadays?
>Definitely cel shading in regards to techniques. Back in the 90s what he kind of misses nowadays is the passion level of people working on key animation. ‘I LOVE DRAWING’ used to resonate every moment of the day. He doesn’t see that passion anymore and people are more quiet and reserved; the level of energy isn’t the same anymore. He hopes he can see a resurgence of that.
http://nekoshiritori.wordpress.com/2014/06/20/interview-with-hiroyuki-kanbe/
>>122556656
Reads like marketing, like he's trying to coattail dandy on KlK, and appeal to the anti-moe /v/tard demographic.
I like the way he worked in a reference to SnK as well.
>>122561788
>moeshit keeps getting made despite it's decline over recent years.
This is where you are wrong.
>>122561777
Pleb detected.
>>122561788
>decline
What kind of normal fag are you, anime has only got better
>I used to tend bar at a busy high end club
Oh.
>>122561661
I sure hope there's nobody here who thinks that "moeshit" like Aria or Non Non Biyori is the same thing as "moeshit" like A-Channel or, for a truly terrible recent example, Girlfriend (Kari).
>>122561899
'There was a time when people were under the impression that anime is a culture that can gain respect worldwide'
> "The bubble has burst" in Japan for the anime industry, Yamamoto said.He said the reluctance of the anime industry to change its business practices has driven down wages, drained the creative spirit and consequently turned off many fans.
>"It is becoming the norm to order some of our work to anime productions in China and South Korea. Not because we want to suppress our personnel costs, but rather because we are unable to find enough people to work (in Japan)," Yamamoto, 36, said.
>"There was a time when people were under the impression that anime makes money, and that anime is a culture that can gain respect worldwide," Yamamoto said. "But at the same time, the priority has been on quantity."
>Working conditions have remained dire, and the industry has been hit by a chronic shortage of creators.The recession exacerbated the animators' woes as sponsorships have shriveled since around 2007. With television broadcasters cutting their budgets, the anime industry has tried to make up for lost sales through DVD productions. But even that strategy has been undermined by illegal broadcasts on the Internet.
>Another concern for the industry is a possible shrinking fan base. Estimates put the population of die-hard anime fans at around 150,000. But Yamamoto suspects the number now falls short of 100,000. Part of the reason, Yamamoto said, is that producers, including himself, devoted too much of their energies in creating cutesy "moe" (budding)-type characters in hopes of making sure-sell products in an already small market.
>"Although the otaku (geek) market is said to be a robust one, even the otaku are not immune to Japan's economic doldrums," Yamamoto said.
>>122561899
>cel shading was widespread in the 90s but is now a lost art
The fuck?
>>122561541
It is just butthurt baka gaijins being upset their western pandering shows like space blandy or diarrhea parade aren't selling. Look at idol and mecha shows like unicorn and LL selling like hotcakes. Then you have pornogatari and its lnshit ilk like sao. Then you have the usual 10k SoL seller like gochiusa. There are plenty of variety for everyone. Maybe the westerner should actually talk with their wallet instead of crying in a Taiwanese cartoons image board.
>>122561547
It's not that people haven't seen the old shows, it's that there's nothing to discuss anymore. Any thread someone makes about an old show is going to be
>What does /a/ think of X
>Why don't they make anime like X anymore
>I just watched X and here's what I think
All of which will just cover the same old tired opinions people talked about when the show came out. When a show is coming out there's at least speculation to be had, it gives threads more life than just discussing the same old show again. Unless you just want a "this show is so good" circlejerk.
>>122561996
>the westerner
Don't confuse /a/ and /v/
>>122561899
It's probably because of the huge number of anime projects now compared to the 90s. Plus, it's more a profession than big hobbyist projects these days.
>>122561990
Video Games must avoid Anime's mistakes, CyberConnect2 CEO states
>As the conversation turned to anime and manga, Matsuyama revealed that he reads "60 books a month," mentioning Jump and Shingeki no Kyojin, and the quality of Kodansha's publications. When asked about anime's declining popularity in the US, Matsuyama replied:
>"Yeah. That's because it's not as mainstream as it used to be. They're making it for a particular audience. I think that's why. I watch a lot of anime but it's for the techniques, not as entertainment. As a product, I think it's going downhill. The general audience won't find those interesting. It's impossible to figure out what the target audience is for Mawaru Penguindrum. Same goes for Madoka Magica. It's for a very core audience like us, who enjoy them. The video game industry has to make sure they don't make the same mistake."
>>122561113
>Dissing Machine Robo
Bastards like you don't deserve to know his name
>>122561489
>Not liking both
Variety is the spice of life
>>122562011
>Any thread someone makes about an old show is going to be
You missed the vast majority of the content of these threads, which is usually discussion about what girl is best, what girl is shit, and sexualizing all of the girls. Mostly the last one.
>>>/a/
>>122562071
I remember that retard dissing Penguindrum and Madoka. So he is basically saying anime should be dumbed down for the masses. Fuck that.
>>122561937
It is over. You may see threads about those kinds of shows of I honestly it's just the same handful of autists spamming them over and over.
>Sato also joked that they also wanted to head away from the "flat-chested" moe style toward the direction of "big boobs"
That's literally all fucking moe is.
>>122562152
Well I don't mind him trashing Madoka, but Penguindrum is actually very good. I don't appreciate him insulting that one.
>>122561990
The golden age is over.
>AUDIENCE: Some people say that the late '70s and early 1980s were sort of a golden age of Japanese animation. And some people say that that golden age is over. What do you think?
>[OKADA]: That period, that golden age you're talking about, is when there were variations--a golden age of variations. And then, for expression of other elements, it's the 1980s. For U.S. science-fiction, the 1950s were the golden age of expression, and setting the stage for that were the 1930s. In the same terms, in anime, the time for time for setting up the variations were the 1970s, and the golden age of expressions and new ideas were the 1980s.
>[HIROAKI INOUE]: First of all, the VHS tape being introduced into households. Before this there were only two ways to watch anime: on TV or in the cinema. But as VHS was introduced and the price of it was lowering, we were able to create animation works for video. Right after VHS, the Laserdisc came out, and fans supporting that helped the OVA to gain its position in the 80s and 90s. There is one other reason: young creators had more ambition to jump over their predecessors. Because the OVA was a new format, it blew up the image [of animation] manufacturers held and they were able to accept that market. Unfortunately, recent creators don’t have the sort of spirit that they had back during the rise of the OVA, so the movement is dying out. And of course, the manufacturers are being more conservative. They’re more reluctant to accept new challenges.
I think it's interesting that /a/, so-called enthusiasts, will claim the exact opposite of what he's saying.
I don't know who's right, but it is curious how the majority of us seem to be against any shift in the current direction of anime.
>>122562122
Fuck off, indecisive faggots like you are the worst.
>>122562071
What's with this self-serving view that anime not geared towards you is bad? Do people honestly think companies focused on making shitty moe cashgrabs are going to somehow make masterpieces once they break the shackles of needing cute girls? Do people honestly think companies that make good moe have a million DEEP DARK ideas about people getting murdered and laughing about it but can't make them because of moe?
>>122562152
How do you read that as an insult? He's saying those shows DON'T have wide appeal, despite going deeper than your average moeshit.
>>122562216
I want more moe and less shonenshit, because shonenshit is for 10 year olds and gays who like to look at dudes.
>>122562216
>the majority of us seem to be against any shift in the current direction of anime
We're against marketing masquerading as analysis, and the childish "anti-moe" audience that enables it.
Those people in those interviews aren't giving otaku enough credit because they have singlehandedly kept the business afloat. Also, the reason anime doesn't have wider appeal in sales is because discs are priced for enthusiasts only. They should sell them much cheaper to appeal to more people. But they don't own up to it and blame the enthusiasts. Fucking snake tongued.
>>122562313
This is true. I think a lot of these moe shows could have wider appeal if they'd actually fucking try getting more people to like them. There's no reason for the common person to not like Yuru Yuri, or what have you.
>>122562216
It's not even an attempt at a shift. It's an attempt at "breaking down". Their view is that there are too many shows they don't like being made, which is a really negative point rather than saying "I wish they would give such-and-such a shot". They're embarrassed by the concept of moe because they want anime to be the cool hip hobby that fits with the masses, and the masses don't like it. I understand why producers want this because it makes them money, but general people who want it tend to just be chuunis.
>>122562122
Well I sure don't like cowtits.
>>122556656
Some of what he says is actually intereasting and really on-point.
There's been a big trend with recent anime in looking back on older styles of anime and reincorporating them into modern shows. Not necessarily direct imitation, but also not parody, either. More of a genre-pastiche of the tropes and themes and aesthetic that was iconic to various genres in the past.
I mean you can see this in even minor low-budget shows like twintails, an affectionate homage to older super sentai with its own satirical harem elements mixed in, or even something bigger like Cross Ange, a shameless loveletter to exploitative bishoujo mecha of the 70's and 80's.
It's not necessarily to say that moe is dying, but rather that a new trend has emerged in the way anime is made, just as moe itself is a trend; this trend of looking back and incorporating successful older elements of genre and culture into newer works, adapting ideas and making old new again in a way that's affectionate and respectful of that older style.
I mean, like it or love it, the core of space dandy was essentially just a pig mosaic of 20th century pop scifi slapped together into an episodic picaresque, drawing inspiration from both older anime cliche's (the racing episode) and just the genre in general.
>>122562208
“There isn’t much diversity now,” Anno lamented.
“Today's anime fans and creators are exclusively into anime. In the past, there were people in the industry who wanted to do other things"
>1985 was curiously the same year Yoshiyuki Tomino’s Mobile Suit Z Gundam aired, a series which Hikawa referred to as one where “Tomino was forced to do Gundam again.” The year was in many ways the end and a new beginning for Japanese animation; the end of innocence for an emerging industry.
> “There isn’t much diversity now,” Anno lamented. “Today's anime fans and creators are exclusively into anime. In the past, there were people in the industry who wanted to do other things, couldn’t get any other work except in anime, which was good."
>“Our generation was when anime fans started coming in," he continued. "But even then, we liked other things too, like tokusatsu.”
>Despite his feelings, Anno hoped panels such as these could inspire future generations of animators.
>“It would be hard to make animation like the shows we say today," he said. "I don’t mean to be nostalgic, but I hope what we saw today somehow leads to the future.”
http://otakuusamagazine.com/Anime/News1/Hideaki-Anno-Talks-Showa-Anime-Openings-6052.aspx
>>122562313
>They should sell them much cheaper to appeal to more people
Not this shit again, there is no demand for that so lowering priced only lower the profit.
>>122562313
Japan doesn't do nearly enough to make money off anime overseas. The anime companies should be offering professionally subbed, ad-supported live streams of their new episodes, aired online simultaneously with the television airings. IP-based filtering could disallow Japanese viewers to keep the TV stations happy.
Space what now? Oh, wait, that really shitty anime with the WORST ratings? Right, I bet he knows exactly what he's talking about.
so industry should switch from flat-chested tsundere characters to "flat-chested" deredere characters?
>>122562465
>moe itself is a trend
Would it really count as one? it's been a thing for 20+ years.
>>122562459
Flat with a big ass is best.
>Moeshit vs shonenshit
>Not realizing both are stagnant as all hell and the market needs to shift away from both or rot.
>>122556656
>mfw moe will never die
>>122562534
No that's disgusting
>>122562383
Culture of cute is not ingrained in the west. Most normal people would think it is girly and for sissy. K-on was successful because every demographic from kid to adult love it in Japan.
>>122562459
Depends. There's an upper limit where cowtits just get stupid looking, but I've never found "too flat" to be a problem
>>122562469
'Otakus takes away the power of anime' says Miyazaki Hayao
>Q: You’ve said that too many young animators are otaku (obsessed fans) who have little real-life experience. All they know is the world of anime.
>A: That trend still exists and it takes away from the power of Japanese animation and manga. It was inevitable, though. I managed to work for 51 years with just paper, pencils and film. My wife told me the other day that I should be thankful for that.’You’re a lucky man,’ she said. My son’s generation and the one coming up after can’t work with just paper and pencils any more so I can’t tell you how that’s going to turn out. I managed to avoid using a computer. I don’t even have a cellphone. I feel lucky I managed to live like that. (laughs)
http://variety.com/2014/film/news/hayao-miyazaki-governors-award-recipient-says-i-intend-to-work-until-the-day-i-die-1201347826/
>>122562580
Meatfag detected
>>122562541
>I only watch deep and mature anime
>I am actually a fujoshi and shoujo is fine to me
>I am a board crosser
>I watched anime since 1970 and still want anime to come back into that day
Fuck off
>>122562648
"The anime industry is starting to break down" says Hideaki Anno
>“It is not that I necessarily wanted to change the flow of anime, but to really sustain the anime environment, to stop it breaking down, and there is still a lot of work to do. (The industry) is starting to break down somewhat, with a lower number of people working in anime and less money, and we need to prevent the anime world shrinking. The varieties of expression have become narrower, less diverse, closed up in a world called ‘Japanese anime’ and I want to break through that and keep on expanding.”
http://www.mangauk.com/post.php?p=hideaki-anno-interview
>>122562541
They don't need to shift away form these style. Both just need a revival, a serie so good that all the bad series of the genre will be forgotten.
>>122562456
There's clearly more validity to what's they're saying than just "them" not liking it. Anime was more popular than it is now, so when less people like something what does that tell you? I think it's reasonable to say that a lot of this stuff might actually be low-grade shit after all. Is it? I don't know, but it shouldn't be left out of the conversation.
>>122562071
I'm pretty sure anime is gaining popularity in the West.
>>122562541
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan#Lifestyle
>However, many studies on happiness and satisfaction with life tend to find that Japanese people average relatively low levels of life satisfaction and happiness when compared with most of the highly developed world; the levels have remained consistent if not declining slightly over the last half century.
As long as this remains the case, "moeshit" will remain a thing. "Moeshit" is just a symptom of the cause explained above. Give people shitty lives and they're gonna want to watch cute kittens playing and cute girls doing cute things.
>>122562673
No you fag. I like flat and tender.
Provide oppai samples please
>>122562716
>Both just need a revival, a serie so good that all the bad series of the genre will be forgotten.
Non Non Biyori was pretty recent...
>>122562529
And homaging past works has always been a thing. It's been a trend because in recent years, the past decade or so, it exploded and become a dominant heme across almost every genre. The whole idea of having several ":cute girls doing cute things" shows every season, some of which are high budget bestsellers, is something pretty unique to the late 2000's and current decade.
It's not that moe didn't exist prior, but it's been a dominant trend recently. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but we are certainly seeing the emergence of a new trend as well.
What's always interesting about these things is that the emergence of a new trend doesn't necessarily mean that the old trend disappears. Almost every show nowadays has moe elements in it, and that's also not a bad thing. The industry is learning how to incorporate the positive attributes and appeal of moe into a wider variety of genre and style. This newer trend of nostalgia and homage is almost as thought the industry is relearning how to make plot, setting, narrative and, most importantly, animation-driven projects that reconcile with and incorporate the elements of moe that made it such a driving force in the industry. You're seeing more and more shows where moe and plot, or slice of life and action aren't in competition with one another, but rather work together to create something that works as a whole. I think Yuuki Yuuna is a good recent example of this, but it's certainly not the only one.
>>122561309
I watched the original cutey honey from 72 just a week ago,its the attentionwhore nomalfags who don't dare to watch anything old.
>>122562745
It's not nearly as popular as it was during the time of Pokemon.
You have a few select shows that appeal to western audiences, but anime in general is not popular.
>>122562711
'Anime is over saturated' says Yutaka Yamamoto
>#Yamakan thinks the current situation in the industry is imperfect. Many might say anime is rising but it's not improving financially.
>basically anime is over saturated now.
>#Yamakan thinks that anime is still kind of locked in the otaku world, but there are more otaku than before.
>Problem is that there are only extreme winner and loser titles in anime. Winners are praised to the skies and losers are trashed.
http://animediet.net/conventions/yutaka-yamamoto-yamakan-press-conference-tweet-digest
>"cute is cancer"
>t. feminist
![[Commie] Koufuku Graffiti - 09 [F48A2401].mkv_snapshot_15.57_[2015.03.10_19.33.40].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Yi1WnLu.jpg "[Commie] Koufuku Graffiti - 09 [F48A2401].mkv_snapshot_15.57_[2015.03.10_19.33.40].jpg")
>>122562856
>Yamakan
>>122561309
This is a farce. Just because you don't see threads on it doesn't mean we're not watching. Obviously the threads you do see will be reserved for current anime & manga.
>>122560618
I loved every episode of Space Dandy.
>>122562856
'The anime industry is definitely spiraling downward' says OreImo director at FanimeCon 2014
>Q: As someone who’s sort of seen both sides of the process as an animator and director, what’s your opinion of the current state of the anime industry, particularly in regards to the bad working conditions for animators? How can things improve?
>A: I’d say the the anime industry is definitely spiraling downward, and as a genre Japanese animation might disappear. Of course, there’s still directors and senior staff who put in the best effort and quality into making a good anime, but the number of talented animators is dwindling, as less people want to become animators. I desperately want to change this mentality. It seems like more young people want to become idols and voice actors these days. I’ll do whatever I can to change it though.
>Q: What would you say is your biggest disappointment with the anime industry right now?
>A: I’m definitely disappointed with how the overall skill level of key animators is declining.
>Q: Do you think the international demand and interest for anime could inspire more animators to meet that demand?
>A: Just because there’s more fans of anime these days doesn’t necessarily correlate to a better anime industry, with more people willing to pursue a career in animation.
https://animeisdead.wordpress.com/2014/05/26/fanimecon-2014-hiroyuki-kanbe-qa-panel/
>>122562071
>The general audience won't find those interesting. It's impossible to figure out what the target audience is for Mawaru Penguindrum. Same goes for Madoka Magica. It's for a very core audience like us, who enjoy them. The video game industry has to make sure they don't make the same mistake."
How is this a bad thing?
The video game industry caters to normalfags, feminists, and generally people who don't actually like video games.
The anime industry caters to people who love anime.
>>122562248
how does that make you indecisive at all
>>122562730
I know it used to sell more, that's why I said I see why producers want a change. They want more money. But there's literally no reason for the viewer to want less of the competition unless they're just disgusted by something existing.
Also if they want to open up the audience maybe they should try lowering the cost of merchandise to a wider-audience level.
>>122562856
I don't get it, are you saying it's not true?
Many people making the same product = over saturation in any market.
>>122562920
>The video game industry caters to normalfags, feminists, and generally people who don't actually like video games.
The western video game market, sure, but that has it's own decline.
>>122562730
>I think it's reasonable to say that a lot of this stuff might actually be low-grade shit after all. Is it?
Popularity is no indication of quality. In fact in most cases things that are popular with a general audience are utter mediocrity that needs to please everyone.
>>122562916
"Moe sells, If a show somehow gets branded as being not moe? Good luck making your money back.' says Madhouse president
>Fuuta pinpoints Evangelion as the catalyst for what eventually became the modern industry business model of creating shows that exist as advertisements for their home video release. Eva didn’t just change the perception of anime in the public consciousness, it also sold 1.5 million copies on laserdisc alone, opened the floodgates on shows geared towards otaku, and was instrumental in creating a concept Fuuta refers to as “My Anime”: niche shows with early-morning TV timeslots that shoot to make their money back on home video sales.
>Hiro has to ask: what is moe, exactly? Fuuta answers “there’s no set definition or even accepted premises for what moe is, but that vagueness allows fans to find their own personal definition of moe and go with it.”
>Hiro points out this trend towards a otaku-only subject matter that the fans themselves can’t even define makes anime in general harder to approach and get into, Fuuta points to the industry catch-22: it sells. And if a show somehow gets branded as being not moe? Good luck making your money back.
>>122562916
>>A: I’m definitely disappointed with how the overall skill level of key animators is declining.
This kind of stuff is about the overall demand in the industry. Honestly, the most important thing for anime is the success of Abenomics.
>>122562856
I'm so glad Yamakan saved anime as an art form.
>NNB S2
>Kinmoza S2
>Gochiusa S2
>YuYu S3
I'm going with no on this one. Also [citation needed].
>>122562966
Yeah, honestly, we don't have it as bad as /v/, man. Brown'n'bloom shooters consisting of proceed down cooridoor, take cover, shoot, take cover, repeat, are far more ubiquitous than any anime trope these days.
>>122562920
>The video game industry caters to normalfags, feminists, and generally people who don't actually like video games.
You can only list a handful of prominent examples that actually fall into those groups.
People act like Nintendo and other Japanese companies don't even exist. Whether they sell as much is irrelevant, as the West's trends do not dictate the video game market.
>>122563036
>NNB S2
>Kinmoza S2
>Gochiusa S2
>>122556656
This Dai Sato guy sounds like he's all talk; just like all them other "big names." Once he runs out of money, he'll find a way to cater to the slobbering, big-wallet otaku base once again.
Fuck him AND his ilk. Unless the animu industry stops featuring shounens and shounen leads as SHITS that shouldn't exist, then I won't see any REAL changes any time soon.
>>122562966
Because it tries to appeal to people who don't like video games in order to maximise profits.
These retards want the same for anime.
>>122563020
'We're in the New Golden Age', says Bahi JD, key animator on Space Dandy and Ping Pong
>"2014-2015 we have lot of interesting anime projects. The generation has slowly started, finally!"
>"Right now anime industry could be in that position where it was in the 80s.Lot of new artists rising up that could define a whole generation"
>>122563060
Western games are more popular than Japanese games nowadays though.
>>122562071
>says Madoka has no real target audience
So does this person have no grasp on reality or what?
>>122563060
The West completely dominates the video game market. Japan is only big when it comes to handheld/mobile games.
>>122563095
>>122563095
You posted the wrong yuyushiki picture.
>>122563215
But no game came close to monhun and dark souls in recent time.
>>122563198
Now here's a guy that knows what he's talking about.
The end of 2014 and the beginning of 2015 have been some of the best seasons in years. We've got a huge variety shows, both broad and niche, some of which are completely unique and off-the-wall, trying things that haven't been tried in decades and with a tonne of solid shows overall. We're seeing elements of moe incorporated into shows without dominating them, laving room for plenty of cute things while still having plot and more interesting styles of animation and directing.
We've been getting both quality and diversity and the trend only looks like it's going to continue.
>>122563334
In terms of sales? You're wrong.
>>122563334
Monster Hunter is repetitive garbage. Dark Souls is a third person perspective action game about beating monsters up which Japan has done millions of. I haven't seen real innovation in Japan in years.
>>122563215
>>122563263
Not ever Western game (or popular game for that matter) panders to those subgroups.
Mortal Kombat X and Hotline Miami 2 come to mind.
>>122563198
See I figured it was a generational thing. In the 80s you had a lot of big names making their debuts and forming new companies, and I was wondering when we'd get another surge of fresh blood in the industry like that.
I'd just like to remind everyone he wrote the Undies vs Vests episode.
>>122561039
The studio owner should be happy his animator enjoys working those hours for that pay.
>>122562799
NNB wasn't that good.
>>122561039
Poor Shinbo.
>>122563233
Madoka is an extreme example of a show that had a very niche target audience but became a mainstream success due to internet buzz.
Other shows that catered to the same audience (Yuuki Yuuna, Wixoss, Genei wo Kakeru Taiyo) not nearly sold as much as Madoka.
>>122563447
Those are both fairly niche, when looking at large scale sale patterns.
>>122563480
The only good part of that was Dandy surfing at the end. I'd bet anything he didn't write that part.
>Liking generic shounen
>Liking generic moe
>Not watching the best from both
>>122563437
Because Western games are innovative right?
Kek.
>>122562856
Well the Japanese population is declining and they're currently in an economic recession. That might explain why anime isn't growing.
>>122560239
Gundam and Macross aren't super robot shows, what the fuck.
>>122563437
Doesn't this parallel to the anime discussion though?
People want "innovation" in the anime industry but the core audience is satisfied, so they get more of what they want. People want "innovation" in the gaming industry but the core is satisfied so Japan gives them more of what they want.
What's the issue? I love Japanese games because they're not trying to be movies and all this other bullshit. Metal Gear Solid aside, which I still enjoy.
>>122563312
No, I'm happy about those shows getting S2s...
>>122563516
I respect your opinion, but I felt it was an SoL series rivaled in execution only by the absolute finest examples of the genre such as ARIA and Azumanga Daioh.
>>122563582
Not in general but in particular.
>>122562966
Japanese games are dying too.
>nobody buys consoles
>nobody plays on PC
>mobile is gradually eating away at handhelds
Shit's dead the moment they figure out how to make an acceptable new MonHun or mainline DQ for phones.
>>122556656
Link to the article?
>>122563198
Masaaki Yuasa talks about today industry
>Until a few years ago, I was able to freely create works thanks to producers who trusted me or studios who had a strong foundation, but now we’re in a state where pitches won’t be accepted just thanks to the strong backing of a producer. These days, a proposal won’t make it unless it also makes sponsors feel safe.
>While I’ve personally had confidence in every title I’ve made up to now, I’m a director who makes titles that haven’t brought large profits to sponsors, so they don’t have confidence in me. I think that if I’m able to regain their faith by producing results (profits) with projects that they feel safe about, then I’ll someday be able to once again create the kinds of titles that I’d personally like to make.
>>122563626
It's 2015, so yuyushiki is on S3.
Everything is fine.
>>122563397
Sorry but from now 2015 is complete garbage. Spring can't come soon enough.
Founding Fathers Quotes
>>122563537
>very niche target audience
You don't know what you;re talking about, do you.
During production and the leadup to its airing, it was marketed as a traditional mahou shoujo aimed at the standard audience for the genre. The 'darker' elements were intentionally hidden during the ad campaign and only really came to light during the 3rd episode twist.
Madoka was marketed entirely on its pedigree (shinbo/kajiura/urobuchi) and its actual content was concealed from the public and misrepresented in order to spark controversy, which it succeeded at immensely.
It never had a niche target audience.
>>122563642
So they aren't any different from Japanese games in that respect then.
They are still worse for pandering to the feminist/SJW's though.
>>122563608
>I love Japanese games because they're not trying to be movies
I don't see western games being movies in general - the complete opposite actually, given how many open world sandbox titles there are. Not every western game is Call of Duty.
>>122563733
>shinbo/kajiura/urobuchi
you think the mainstream care about those name?
>>122563701
2015 in binary is 11111011111.
>>122563771
Not trying to prove anything, but the order was a game that was literally more cutscene than game. (3 hours of cutscenes, 1:30 gameplay, 30 min are QTEs).
>>122563537
>>Madoka is an extreme example of a show that had a very niche target audience
Yeah no. It's the second highest selling anime in the last 15 years. That's not a niche show gaining some tread, that's real staying power. The movies also sell very well, so it's not just a fad either. Madoka has a wider appeal than you or that hack are willing to acknowledge.
This is the problem with these big name directors. They think their taste is law, and if they can't understand why people like a show they say it's niche and chalk up its success to a fad or something else that has nothing to do with its quality.
>>122563765
>So they aren't any different from Japanese games in that respect then.
Do they innovate in terms of gameplay though? I don't see very much in that regard.
Japan might do something that is artistically nice to look at, but when it comes to gameplay they often resort to the same patterns. The west is more eager to experiment in that regard, and especially on the PC in terms of complexity far surpassing what Japan has to offer.
>>122563857
Singular examples that aren't representative. Also, on consoles you can't really expect to find a lot of innovation anyway.
>>122562071
>The general audience won't find those interesting.
Fuck the general audience. I don't want my chinese cartoons made to cater to normalfags.
>>122563888
It's really only smaller studios and indie developers that are innovating in the west though. AAA is still just first person military shooters and open world games, for the most part.
>>122563888
Yes, Okami's gameplay is very different from the traditional ones for example.
Go play it already.
Remember the 'kawaii fad'?
>>122563733
>It never had a niche target audience.
Yes it did. Madoka is merely a continuation of a sub-genre of a sub-genre, namely otaku-oriented magical-girls such as Nanoha or Mai-Hime (the former being directed by none other than Shinbou). It was NEVER marketed as a traditional magical-girl, it was scheduled to be broadcasted as a late-night anime.
Also noone knew who the fuck Urobuchi was besides the VN fandom.
>>122564010
The issue is: this indie sector is quite large in the west.
>>122564056
I've watched a let's play and it didn't seem that unique to me - visuals aside.
>>122564076
>It was NEVER marketed as a traditional magical-girl
How to spot someone that's been on /a/ for fewer than 4 years.
>>122563888
In the unique gameplay frontier I present to you Sting's games, which puts most western things to shame.
>>122563733
Only otaku would recognize names attached to a project and build any expectation from it. Just like how only movie buffs would bother looking up the cast and crew for a new film to get an idea of what to expect. Half the time when I gush about a director's new movie to my family they just go "Oh I think I recognize that name, he did ____ right?"
Even if they know the name it's not anything special to them.
For the general audience, they base their expectations off of trailers and reviews, which are all about content.
>>122562833
Except now they're trying to change the anime itself unlike when pokemon era.
Holy shit, why western always try making media like they want.
>>122563849
>>122564079
True. The point in trying to make here though is that the majority of the cash and sales in western games development is still going toward fairly generic games.
>>122563879
>Yeah no. It's the second highest selling anime in the last 15 years.
The sale doesn't prove anything, it's just otaku bought it, not to mention Bakemonogatari sales number is very close to Madoka.
have you check Ghibli anime sale figures or Evangelion rebuild? that's what mainstream.
You go on the street in Japan, and ask them One Peace, SnK, Evangelion or Gundam, they know it, but Madoka is a fade like Haruhi.
It's very famous title in anime fandom but not mainstream.
>>122564132
It is inspired from a few other games/genres, but that doesn't mean it isn't unique. You need to play it yourself to know for sure.
>>122564181
Of course.
I don't see Japan being that different though. They might be more interesting to look at, but gameplay wise they've been resorting to similar patterns.
>>122564252
What's so unique about it except for the painting thing? It just adds another means of input to achieve what has been done since the dawn of time: kill monsters. It is innovative, but it doesn't innovate the internal mechanics of gameplay so much.
>trend
Once we let Haruhi slide it was made clear that this is just how anime is now. All the common tropes and writing just deep enough to be considered self-aware. Boom, one of the most popular shows of this generation.
Lucky Star and Azumanga Daioh at least had good writing. The minute we let a show get by on it's general concept while displaying the bare minimum of what can be considered passable writing, things were set in stone.
That doesn't mean the industry can't grow out of it. The same happened with mecha, harem, and other subgenres. We'll most likely see a change in the next decade or so. I just wouldn't call it a trend.
>>122564188
You need luck for mainstream market.
They somehow luck into Gundam and Totoro back then and even if they try to create something like them right now, they won't get the same reception.
>>122564153
The west is used to dominating media. American media has a global audience, especially Hollywood. So when foreign shit starts gaining appeal, they try to adapt it. See those popular Japanese horror movies from the 00s that Hollywood shamelessly ripped off: Ring, Grudge, etc. Or the European films based off those popular Norwegian novels, Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. Hollywood just remakes it for Americans using their own actors and own directors to try and own that popularity, instead of just showing the originals here.
The west does it with TV shows too: The Office, Top Gear, etc. Anything that gets popular on another continent, expect an American studio to remake it for Americans.
Except they can't really do it with anime. Cause the west can't into animation for teenagers and young adults, who are the main consumers of anime among westerners. They can try to imitate the style, as Avatar shows, but they can't imitate the content.
>>122564139
I'm still mad Blaze and Gloria didn't get localized.
>>122564341
>what is innovative apart from the part that is innovative
Nigger... you just trying to move the goal post at this point. You never mentioned anything about the only way something could be innovative was if the gameplay was completely alien to anything else.
>>122559463
This
and even in Toonami, it was a flash in the pan. The show had to be taken off the block due to sagging ratings along with Attack on Titan and other shows.
