Just finished Bakemonogatari and moved on to this. First two episodes were terrible. Should I continue on or is the rest of the series this awful?
>>117388116
it gets pretty good
>>117388116
Don't waste your time and stop it
>>117388228
This scene looks like shitty fanservice, which is exactly the same kind of feeling I got from the first two episodes, which is why I didn't like it.
So I guess I'll just drop it.
>>117388263
You'll be better off if you don't watch it. The story is meh, the art is horrific and none of the multitude of different personalities are likeable
>>117388263
>not liking fanservice
why do you watch anime? are you a woman/gay person?
>>117388263
the entirety of Monogatari is harem fanservice with an overarching plot
![Nisemonogatari - 01 (BD 1280x720 AVC AACx3).mp4_snapshot_22.58_[2014.11.14_16.36.33].png](https://i.imgur.com/8yPdqsA.jpg "Nisemonogatari - 01 (BD 1280x720 AVC AACx3).mp4_snapshot_22.58_[2014.11.14_16.36.33].png")
>>117388116
You should probably just go ahead and kill yourself to spare the world from your shit taste.
>>117388116
>Nisemonogatari
>First two episodes were terrible
>hurr nise is shit !!!
I wish secondaries would fuck off
>>117388116
>>117388263
eric tripcode bro, you seem to have a lot of stuff to contribute to use it like your shitty worthless opinion
thanks for the input anyhow, where can i subscribe to your blog to know more about your wonderful life?
Nisemonogatari is pure gold in all senses, and its amount of the so-called "fanservice" is about the same as in any other Monogatari.
>>117388116
How did you even get through Bakemonogatari?
>>117388487
The amount of fanservice in the Monogatari series is technically zero across the board, as the LNs the series are based off of aren't the low-brow type that has illustrations of perverse scenes likely put in specifically for the sake of being illustrated.
People who claim the anime is about fanservice are exactly the same as someone who would look at historical illustrations or classical art and say "EWW NAKED PEOPLE".
I don't see why you're complaining about fanservice AFTER finishing Bakemonogatari. It's like not like fucking Ikkitousen with the fan service. I enjoyed the fanservice, and I loved the Monogatari series.
>>117388582
He's a male.
>>117388487
>>117388773
Well, for a lolicon, a naked 8 year old-ish girl is already great fanservice. And Nise is like that.
The series don't have any loli service other than Nise though.
>>117388263
>this scene looks like shitty fanservice
>shitty
Being gay doesn't mean one can just reject reality, that scene is wonderful fanservice.
>>117388803
>The series don't have any loli service other than Nise though.
The kisses in S2 qualify as loliservice
>>117388773
>>as the LNs the series are based off of aren't the low-brow type that has illustrations of perverse scenes likely put in specifically for the sake of being illustrated.
>"No, no, you have the wrong idea. To begin with, I did not get any sleep. You were hugging on to me looking like you had trouble sleeping, so I could not sleep."
>So she was in a real body pillow state. So she was my futon.
>"You were playing with my ribs like a güiro and going «Hanekawa―, Hanekawa―, loli Hanekawa―» while being perturbed."
>"That's a lie―!"
>A güiro she says!
>"Well, you were probably feeling a little disheartened after coming to a past like this, so I thought that it could not be helped, and allowed you to be spoiled."
>"That's definitely a lie―!"
>I'm the worst character, I should die tomorrow!
>"…phew. But I mean, I have to live for today. Since I have to save Hachikuji today, on this Mother's Day."
>"Do not try to pass this off as a gag by saying something seemingly cool. Get serious, the shapes of your hands are still clearly imprinted on my rib cage. Here, take a look."
>"What a shame, I can't confirm it because it's a novel!"
>"We can just insert an illustration."
>"What? An illustration where a little girl is emphatically flipping her dress up and showing what's under?"
>"With a drawing style like the iPad version of Alice in Wonderland."
>"You mean an image that moves and that you can touch?"
>"My dress would get flipped by the motion of a finger."
>"How obscene…"
>>117388116
Just remember that most of Nisemonogatari simply exists to lay the foundations for the rest of the series... to provide hints, to build the worldsetting, to directly spoil elements, and so on.
The rest is the based sisters and fanservice. Even the based sisters alone are enough for you to watch this series once, then when you see the rest, to go back and rewatch Nise, thus it becoming your favourite season, as it happened with me.
>>117388116
Kaiki is introduced there iirc. You will not want to miss that fucker. He just keeps getting better as the series goes on too.
>>117388803
For someone mentally deranged Hidamari Sketch could be pornography. That doesn't mean that it is.
Your logic is no different from that of feminists who argue art should be censored because someone, somewhere, might find it offensive or oppressive.
>>117388884
>>117388412
>>117388392
>>117388371
>>117388262
So I take it that the rest of the series is like this? Dropped harder than Truman dropping the gook nuke.
>>117388850
Feel free to link the novel illustration of Araragi fondling Shinobu's ribs in his sleep.
Unless you can do that it's not fanservice, it's literature.
![[Commie] Monogatari Series Second Season - 03 [BD 1080p AAC] [389C90B2].mkv_snapshot_11.32_[2013.11.24_01.15.09].png](https://i.imgur.com/WY1gjPb.jpg "[Commie] Monogatari Series Second Season - 03 [BD 1080p AAC] [389C90B2].mkv_snapshot_11.32_[2013.11.24_01.15.09].png")
>>117388976
Like what?
Fanservice doesn't exist.
Even if it existed, the Monogatari Series wouldn't qualify as a show with fanservice.
Anyway (anime only):
Bake > Nise > Koi >>> Rest
>>117389008
Good.
>>117389003
>only illustrations can be fanservice
>>117389003
It's literature that plays with fanservice.
Heck, the anime *monogatari doesn't have fanservice in the pure form of the word, as everything is there for a reason. Nothing is added as pure fan-service. Doesn't mean that *monogatari as a whole plays deeply on the idea of fanservice. We are not saying *monogatari is the best fanservice out there just because we like spouting things. We do like spouting things, of course, we are /a/, but this doesn't make this less on the spot.
![[Commie] Hanamonogatari [E055B3E8].mkv_snapshot_00.27.17_[2014.08.20_01.47.55].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/VL0hoaD.jpg "[Commie] Hanamonogatari [E055B3E8].mkv_snapshot_00.27.17_[2014.08.20_01.47.55].jpg")
>>117389053
What is good?
>>117388976
You are not worthy of watching glorious Monogatari. Now proceed to free the world from your disgraceful existence.
bake was good but watching the others felt like a chore because they were so much shittier than bake
>>117388116
Honestly the show never regained the charm that the first season had for me. It was a steady loss of interest with each episode that came out after then, I dropped it somewhere around the second half of the second (or third?) season. Some time travel adventure shit with Shinobu is the last I can remember.
Nisemonogatari was a let down, but the LN was never supposed to be released, it was a fap novel for Niso. To bad Niso being Niso, it had important plot details so he had to release it anyways.
I love Monogatari's fanservice, its a class above most else, but Nisemonogatari does push it harder then the rest of the series.
>>117389066
Yes that's exactly what I'm saying.
>>117389215
>Nisemonogatari was a let down, but the LN was never supposed to be released, it was a fap novel for Niso
That's why Nisemonogatari is the novel that builds the whole rest of the series, right?
>>117389215
I can't stand reading this blatant nonsense. Nisemonogatari doesn't have more of this so-called "fanservice" than any other Monogatari.
The brush? What's the fucking problem?
The bath? You have naked people in almost all the other stories.
Jesus Christ.
How the fuck was Nise a let-down at all?
It introduced incredibly important characters like Kaiki, Kagenui and Yotsugi, their backstory and motives. Hell, even the Fire Sisters play a role in the development of many other characters later on.
Face it, without Nise, the rest of the series just doesn't happen
>>117388116
Why are you even watching anime?
>>117389074
Fanservice does not exist in literature. It specifically refers to sexually suggestive imagery in manga and anime and the definition that's been established for years does not suddenly change because you have a hateboner for Monogatari.
And that's without even touching on the fact that it's largely a bullshit term to begin with. Anyone who actually takes art or literature seriously would laugh in your face if you used it unironically.
>>117388803
>a naked 8 year old-ish girl
Thank you for proving my point.
>EWW NAKED PEOPLE
>>117389349
>Fanservice does not exist in literature.
Yes.
>It specifically refers to sexually suggestive imagery in manga and anime
>manga and anime
Visual media as whole.
>and the definition that's been established for years does not suddenly change because you have a hateboner for Monogatari.
Read my previous post again.
>And that's without even touching on the fact that it's largely a bullshit term to begin with.
Yes.
>Anyone who actually takes art or literature seriously would laugh in your face if you used it unironically.
Well, nisioisin himself has quite the fun with it, so I wouldn't say he's using it unironically, if that's what you are implying.
>>117389003
50 shades of gray ain't a porn book anymore laddies.
"Nisemonogatari is just for building the rest of the series."
Stop this bullshit, Nisemonogatari is better than everything it has "built" that comes after it.
>>117389496
Second Season is superior
![[Commie] Nisemonogatari - 02 [0BD2EE1E].mkv_snapshot_13.57_[2012.01.16_01.36.21].png](https://i.imgur.com/AmgRpMx.png "[Commie] Nisemonogatari - 02 [0BD2EE1E].mkv_snapshot_13.57_[2012.01.16_01.36.21].png")
>>117389496
>"Nisemonogatari is just for building the rest of the series."
>Stop this bullshit, Nisemonogatari is better than everything it has "built" that comes after it.
Both statements are true.
I can't even remember what happened in Nise. Liked Second Season though
>>117389520
Except it isn't. Only Koi is objectively good.
>>117389480
So sexual intercourse = fan service? The thing that brought you to this world is fan service?
Why has fanservice -in which existence I don't believe- to be something negative or despised? Why shouldn't be liked something whose name implies it should be liked? Fuck off.
>>117389349
>Anime invented fanservice
>>117389468
>Read my previous post again.
I would but the only conclusive statement in your entire post ("It's literature that plays with fanservice.") is saying nothing at all.
You say Monogatari doesn't have fanservice, but you say it plays with fanservice. You're talking about "pure" fanservice and "the idea of fanservice", which is complete nonsense. Then you start talking about /a/ for fuckall knows what reason.
And then you top it off by admitting that Fanservice is a bullshit term that has no place in a discussion of any creative work whatsoever.
So please be patient and clarify for me: What the fuck are you even talking about?
>>117389272
Not that anon but honestly? I think NisiO gets off on that shit. On obscure references and foreshadowing, long monologues and badass characters pulling off cool shit.
I wouldn't be surprised if the draft he wrote was 60/70% still the same story even after the Editor went through it.
>>117389738
Come fucking on, this is a *monogatari thread. Nobody here would say fanservice is bad. The most somebody can imply is that TOO MUCH fanservice is bad. But too much of anything is bad.
>>117389480
>Pornography
>printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity, intended to stimulate erotic rather than aesthetic or emotional feelings.
Now feel free to cite the "explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity, intended to stimulate erotic rather than aesthetic or emotional feelings." in Monogatari.
And when you can't, take a moment and think about what a gigantic fucking retard you are for being the guy who brings up 50 Shades of Gray in a literature discussion.
>>117388116
Nisemonogatari 01 is one of the best episodes in the series
Really, pretty much every episode of Nise not focused on the plot is fantastic
>>117389496
Why not both?
>>117389349
Holy shit, you're actually stupid as hell.
>>117389873
>Fanservice = pornography
>>117389774
It did, faggot.
>>117389738
>objectively good
>objectively
Are you pretending to be retarded, or am I talking to the real thing?
>>117389926
Quote that at >>117389480, retard.
>>117389937
That wasn't the correct word. What I meant is that if a human being doesn't like Koimonogatari more than the other parts of the Second Season, they should cease to exist.
>>117390005
Koi overshadowing Oni and Kabuki doesn't make them bad
>>117389798
>I would but the only conclusive statement in your entire post ("It's literature that plays with fanservice.") is saying nothing at all.
Fanservice, as an accepted term the way you defined it, is something that can be referenced, that can be alluded to. *monogatari does that. *monogatari plays with the idea of fanservice. Nisio effectively writes ABOUT fanservice, not only about his characters and story, the way some other author may write about good cinematography or about love. Not that nisio doesn't write about numerous other things, too, but fanservice is one of the topics that are present throughout all his books.
Do you get now "It's literature that plays with fanservice?"
>You're talking about "pure" fanservice and "the idea of fanservice", which is complete nonsense.
>the idea of fanservice
Why would you say that this is nonsense? Maybe I am misusing some kind of term?
>"pure" fanservice
Now, distance yourself from the previous part of my post.
>pure fan-service
Service to the fans, as in an added pinup at the end of the book, or something like that. That's originally what fanservice would mean. Only afterwards we as humanity have started using it for the various lewd scenes inside the continuity of the work.
Is Bakemonogatari worth watching or is it just haremshit?
>>117390062
That wasn't the point. They are far worse than Nise. Koi is the only part of the Second Season that stands out [it is "objectively good" (WRONG WORDS)], and thus the only one that can be compared as more or less equal to Nise.
>>117390145
if you understand japanese it is good
>>117390145
Watch it and find out
At least the first three episodes
>>117390145
Here is a secret complex technique no jutsu to tell if you'll like an anime.
Step 1: Watch episode 1
Step 2: Watch episode 2
Step 3: Watch episode 3
Step 4: Ask yourself if you want to keep watching
Step 5: Stop watching or continue (this step is tricky, be careful)
Step 6: Repeat step 5 until the anime is finished or you give up completely (also tricky)
>>117390198
Neko white was amazing. Hanekawa is the most developed character in the series we've seen so far and brought us further into the theme of fakes that nise introduced just as well as koi.
>>117390198
Not that anon but there is a pretty glaring flaw in your argument.
Nise is made up of two books. Karen Bee and Tsukihi Phoenix
If you are comparing Nise specifically to S2 then you can't divide S2 into its books Koi/Oni/Kabuki/Neko etc or else you'll need to divide Nise into Bee/Phoenix.
>Koi is the only part of the Second Season that stands out [it is "objectively good" (WRONG WORDS)], and thus the only one that can be compared as more or less equal to Nise.
This sentence tells me that you're treating Nise as a whole while not treating S2 the same
>>117390268
>Hanekawa is the most developed character in the series
catfag pls
>trip fag asking for rec
>obviously not from /a/
>obviously a normalfag
>people responding seriously
/a/ has gotten bad.
>>117390315
He's right, it just took doing the same story three times to do it.
>>117389405
Hey, I have nothing against it.
Just saying that naked loli is so rare (not counting all the eye cancer saturation shit), especially with a detailed body like Shinobu's, that it does indeed count as loliservice, because that's something that a lolicon don't usually get from any anime.
>>117390084
>Fanservice, as an accepted term
Fanservice is not an accepted term whatsoever, as I stated in my previous post and as you agreed. When I said Fanservice refers to explicit imagery in anime and manga, I was referring to it's usage on /a/. Nisio obviously does not know or care about /a/'s idea called "fanservice".
>is something that can be referenced, that can be alluded to
You can't allude to something that doesn't have a definition.
>Do you get now "It's literature that plays with fanservice?"
I now understand that you're literally trying to argue "Fanservice doesn't exist in literature, but Nisio puts it there anyway." It also confirmed my initial hunch that the reason your post is so incomprehensible is because it is one big self-contradiction.
>Why would you say that this is nonsense? Maybe I am misusing some kind of term?
It's nonsense because you're trying to manufacture meaning from a term that we've already established is bullshit.
>Service to the fans
There is literally no way to service your fans besides making a good artistic or creative work.
>>117390315
Snail is my favorite. Cat and monkey are my least favorite, yet neko white and hana were still great.
>>117390311
I treat Nise as a whole because it doesn't matter if it's Bee or Phoenix, they are at the same level.
>>117388116
Read Kizu. If you hate that, then you have no reason to continue with the series.
>>117390371
Hana's 3rd episode is the worst in the entire series and the adaptation as a whole is only salvaged by Araragi and Kaiki.
>>117390388
Anyway, you're forcing the "divide into books" argument, but I can just be dividing into "gataris".
>>117390356
Except there is no visibly naked Shinobu body in the LN, and the anime only has it specifically because it's in the LN.
How rare it is is irrelevant. LNs that aren't written like dogshit are rare too but that doesn't make good ones fanservice. (Well in a way it does, if you use the literal english definition and not the "EWW NAKED PEOPLE" definition.)
>>117390434
*monogataris in fact
>>117390145
Bakemonogatari is definitely worth watching. Even if you don't like it you can always shitpost it
>>117390410
Rouka was such a great foil. You could compare her to monkey, snail, and kaiki all for different reasons. Also hana should just be seen as a whole, it was basically a movie.
>>117390311
Treating S2 as the same is retarded as you woudl be saying all the LN's are the exact same rather than each one being its own thing. Some SHAFT did shit on like Kabuki by taking our core elements with meaningful scenes and they did great like on Koi by keeping it generally intact. It's a slippery slope.
>>117390487
the sad thing is, that's true.
>>117390311
Not the anon in question, but I'll clarify what he was saying:
Karen Bee and Tsukihi Phoenix are both much better than any of the S2 novels. Koi is better than the rest of the S2 novels but still worse than Karen Bee and Tsukihi Phoenix.
>>117390497
Taken as a whole, then Hana is really bad then. Rouka's monologue is as close to 'objectively bad' as anything in film can get. Having a flashback that's just a character sitting and telling about their past is one of the most amateurish mistakes anyone can make. It's kind of insulting that Shaft would do that to the large fanbase they've cultivated, though I guess it's to be expected with how they butchered most of SS with shit scheduling.
>>117390478
Naked isn't fanservice.
But Shinobu had pretty detailed body and different lewd shots.
Take it as fanservice or not; it is certainly the most loli fanservice that came out in recent years.
>>117390388
>>117390434
Phoenix was shit compared to Bee, the only good thing about Phoenix was Yozuru, otherwise there was no development for Tsukihi and it was meh in everything else.
Also dividing in Gatari is an illogical action. There is no difference for the Gatari for S2 so you're effectively just picking a third option with the only logic being. "It'll help me win this argument" not on anything logical like. "Compare the arcs" or "Compare the seasons". Choosing the Gataris is "Comparing the season I want to the arcs"
>>117390554
no, i don't think so. nise was too slow and s2 had moreshinobu
>>117390504
I apologize for my errors with my typing.
>>117390487
>Shitpost about Bake when we are entering Monogatari Series: Final Season of LN adaptions
>>117390575
It worked because it makes us think. We had to actively compare her to the characters we've already learned about and consider where she stands amongst the theme of fakes. Sure it wasn't super exciting plot twisting and turning, but when was monogatari ever about that?
>>117390786
well, for example in kabuki
>>117390601
>There is no difference for the Gatari for S2
There are.
Each Monogatari has its partcicular opening.
Each Monogatari displays a different tittle logo where you can see "Otorimonogatari" or "Koimonogatari", etc. So you can identify the name of the show you are watching as different in each of the monogataris, and thus conclude that you are watching different shows. There no logo of "Monogatari Series Second Season" anywhere in the episodes., in which you can see the logo of the series as "Otorimonogatari" or "Koimonogatari", etc. Each Monogatari tells a different story, with different characters and in different places/moments.
>>117390587
>Naked isn't fanservice.
Really? Because most people who use the term would argue otherwise.
>But Shinobu had pretty detailed body
So you're saying that detail is fanservice? Because you've already stated it's not the "naked" part.
>different lewd shots.
There were no explicitly (or even implicitly, but that's not the qualifier here) lewd shots, no.
>Take it as fanservice or not; it is certainly the most loli fanservice that came out in recent years.
"Take it as fanservice or not; it's fanservice."
Honestly, what are you even trying to accomplish right now? What goes through a person's head when they decide "I'm going to deny the existence of something, while simultaneously arguing it exists"? Because I honestly have no clue.
>>117390909
The repeated part ", in which you can see the logo of the series as "Otorimonogatari" or "Koimonogatari", etc." should obviously not be there
>>117390786
But it didn't. If you fuck up that bad, then the only thing going through the audience's head is going to be "holy fuck this is really boring, when will this cunt shut up?" The story is about character interactions, and it was all one-sided with a super amateurish directing mistake killing any other possible interest. Also, Nise has ended, you can't just throw around the phrase 'theme of fake and expect people to think you're insightful.
>>117390601
The brush incident happened in Phoenix.
![[HorribleSubs] Nisemonogatari - 02 [1080p].mkv_snapshot_09.39_[2012.01.14_23.42.41].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/OUi5P5p.jpg "[HorribleSubs] Nisemonogatari - 02 [1080p].mkv_snapshot_09.39_[2012.01.14_23.42.41].jpg")
>hating based Nadeko episode
you just went full faggot.
>>117390601
Each Gatari is different as each is written differently by Nisio with a separate story that all ties in together for a grander purpose. Each character in each story had a character development and conclusion with a meaning in a bigger picture. Which is why it's great to read his works.
>>117390786
If people actually thought when they watched Monogatari there wouldn't be so many retards claiming Nise was about fanservice.
What is fanservice?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m6Ayhrt9hg
>>117391040
It is what keep SHAFT afloat.
>>117391081
It's a serious question.
You can't hold a discussion about a topic if you don't properly define what it is first.
>>117391040
>Eww naked people
>>117391122
Those rosy cheeks. Did someone just spank the monkey?
>>117391002
>picking hs for nise
u wut m8
>>117391040
Fanservice is what happens when people want to stigmatize a non-pornographic work for being pornographic, because actually criticizing it on a artistic or literate level is too much work.
>>117391122
kanbarus ass isn't fanservice. it is a necessary plotelement.
>>117391122
I am unsure if one would need to have a serious discussion on fanservice unless they are that blind to such things over many years of exposure. Unless it's one of those individuals that questions things for a more in depth answer for when there is none.
Bake > Nise > Koi >>> Kabuki > Onimo >> Otori > Neko Shiro > Neko Kuro > Hana
>>117391178
Over what, Commie? UTW? Don't make me laugh.I can't comment on CMS.
>>117391185
This appears to be the case but I would like OP to actually say what he thinks it is if he's even still here.
>mfw platinum disco for the first time
>>117391221
I don't understand what you mean.
>>117391122
That's just Kanbaru being Kanbaru. Always count on her character to do such things.
>>117388263
Do trip fags bait? Cause I can't understand his existence on /a/ disliking fan service?
>>117390972
Please don't project your ADD onto the rest of us.
>throwing around "fake"
So Hanekawa thrusting her ugly emotions onto the cat so she could be perfect was not being a fake? Neither was Nadeko ignoring her dream and hiding all her contempt for the people around her? And Kaiki's entire character? Please, Nise didn't just introduce this for a tiny climax and let it go.
>>117391314
>>117391314
tuturu~
>>117390972
Rouka was an interesting character. It just sounds to me like Hana was 2deep for you.
>>117391347
>>117391334
I'm sorry that Shaft made a film 101 don't you fucking ever do this mistake on the monkey arc you were waiting for. Don't take it out on me.
>>117391380
She was interesting enough when it wasn't a one-sided info dump with a talking head.
>>117391266
Then i can not go further with the topic.
>>117391380
She was not very engaging because we did not understand why we should care about her. It wasn't until the ED did we really understand who she was. I'm doing a rewatch so when I get to hana I will see if that makes her any more likable.
>>117391383
>>117391383
>No teen Shinobu in the LN's
Makes sense why, but it sure as hell sucks.
I still can't find a place to watch this
>>117391408
No, all you need to do is explain what you mean.
If you want to have a discussion about fanservice you need to define it first.
If you don't want to have a discussion on fanserivice then you can drop the topic.
>>117391444
Get it where you get all your other anime from. Unless you are at a point where you want good subs and is just conflicted.
>>117390972
what about all the people who weren't bored and were actually interested in Rouka as a character.
I found her monologue interesting in the fact that she was clearly projecting an image of herself to Kanbaru. trying to piece together exactly who she was as a person based on how and why she was presenting herself that way and how it was reflective of Kanbaru's own situation was what kept me interested.
Also "show don't tell" is not about visuals, it means that the audience has been given the ability to come to their own conclusion about something. Like if a character randomly came out and said "Drugs are bad mmkay" without giving examples to back up the statement then the audience is being told what to think instead of shown why they should think it.
>>117391444
ANE for bake, Commie for nise, SS and hana, coalgirls for neko
>>117391424
>>117391399
Waiting for? I disliked Kanbaru's character beforehand and didn't expect anything out of hana, yet I enjoyed it. Speak for yourself.
>>117391501
wut
Nise is a lot 'different' to Bake because the author never intended anyone to see it, let alone it get published and adapted into it's own season.
Might as well force yourself through it to see the other seasons though.
>>117391537
If you don't understand what that means you are simply not ready.
>>117391487
Someone who gets it, holy shit.
>>117391551
according to the interview, Nisio stated bake was 100% written for himself and never intended to be released. Nise was 200% written for himself and never meant to be released.
So it's easy to understand from this why it's so different
>>117391559
No, it just means i live a busy life and have little free time, asshole
>>117391487
That's the version for written works. Film's version includes visuals because film is a visual medium, and the textbook example of fucking it up is "a flashback where you only show the narrator talking." You can get away with it for a short period of time but not for ten straight minutes. Bake already solved the problem of not having enough budget for it by doing it in stills and photo collages, but it was still far more engaging than a singular talking head.
>>117390972
Fake vs Real is the central theme to the entire Monogatari series. It is the representation in-universe of the generalized concept of dual, opposite, conflicting or coexisting forces. Nise was where it was given significant attention because Nise was the "actual" start of the story, but to claim it's not significant to every novel is ridiculous.
I mean, it should be clear as fucking day that Kanbaru and Rouka were set up as opposites as a part of this theme, the way we saw practically the exact opposite side of established characters' personalities (a dark and troubled Kanbaru, a generous and benevolent Kaiki, a wise and mature Araragi) also matched this theme.
Hana didn't just play lipservice to the theme, it continued it in an interesting way that stands out within the series.
>>117391600
Well he certainly has good fetishes, that's for sure
>>117391415
I didn't say Rouka was sympathetic, I said she was interesting.
>>117391603
monogatari is not baby's first anime. If you don't even know about subgroups you aren't ready to watch it.
>>117391600
He should write more things that aren't meant to be released, and then release them.
>>117391661
I know about subgroups, I don't know them all, because like I said, i live a busy life with little freetime.
Jackass
>>117391603
Anon, you are way out of the loop for /a/ if you don't understand what he is saying. I won't blame you for that, as one has needs to answer reality when it knocks on the door. But google that shit if you need an clarification.
>>117391626
>Fake vs Real is the central theme to the entire Monogatari series.
Which is why Nisio states he only started thinking about it when it came time to write Nise.
If anything is the core theme, that is "you cannot save others, they are the only ones that can save themselves." You know, the thing which was stated on the first episode and multiple times since, and actually has been supported by the entire series.
Juxtaposition doesn't have to be fake versus real. You're trying to hard to shove everything into that box and you're starting to sound like an overzealous english teacher because you're pulling shit out of your ass and expecting everyone else to believe you with no justification.
>>117391501
Why not Commie for Neko?
Also Commie's Nise isn't BD, right?
>>117391626
I don't know, Kanabru was always shown to be outwardly cheerful but troubled inside. I mean that's her entire OP in monkey.
And SS already set up Kaiki as not such a bad guy, meanwhile Kanabru always looked up to Araragi.
![[HorribleSubs] Monogatari Series Second Season - 18 [720p].mkv_snapshot_03.06_[2014.07.29_16.16.51].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/xfRsah2.jpg "[HorribleSubs] Monogatari Series Second Season - 18 [720p].mkv_snapshot_03.06_[2014.07.29_16.16.51].jpg")
>>117391617
>"a flashback where you only show the narrator talking."
They literally did an entire episode of this for Shinobu Time and I had no problem with it, nor did most people.
Having a character tell a story is still telling a story, it's just a different style of telling it.
>>117391487
I don't think that it means what you think means.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShowDontTell
>>117391660
I don't think someone can be really interesting without being sympathetic because I have to actually care about them to be seriously interested in them.
>>117391702
If you do know fucking google it and stop wanting so much spoonfeeding.
>>117391702
>>>/r/
>>117391736
Imagery. They had beautiful, time period-appropriate imagery on the screen with Shinobu narrating it. It wasn't a talking head like the Ryouka flashback. That's the difference. That's literally all it takes and shaft fucked it up.
>>117391776
I never asked for spoonfeed or /r/.
Reread
>>117388116
Just stop there.
Tatsuya Oishi >>>>>>>>> Tomoyuki Itamura
>>117391845
You did, and now you're being an ass. Fuck off.
>>117391510
>Some anon once yelled at me for spoilers for posting that image
>>117391721
>"you cannot save others, they are the only ones that can save themselves."
This is just the backbone of the series, not the theme that Nisio is developing his characters towards. Think about it for a second, there's nothing to question about that "theme". It's just "yes people can save others" or "no they can't". The characters don't challenge the statement, it's just a fact.
>>117391727
Yes we did have hints of these sides of the characters throughout the series, but it's in Hana that that side of the character is brought into full spotlight and is the most significant side of it overall.
I mean we had hints that Kanbaru was troubled and had weird family circumstances, but when you start Hana and literally the first thing you read is the following:
>The story I am going to tell is called Kanbaru Suruga is an idiot, would you listen to it? How can I say, it is such a trivial story that I am extremely sorry to make you hear it, so I won't force you to listen, but my honest feeling is that I would like you to listen if you can.
>I think it won't be meaningful, though.
Then goes directly into her recollection of how her mother was such an incomprehensible and neglectful person.
It's such a sharp contrast against her normal character that it's jarring, even if you knew she wasn't all genki. Kanbaru's one character that I think completely went beyond what people would have expected from her perspective. And the same goes for the others too: Kaiki wasn't such a bad guy, but him waiting for Kanbaru at the station, outrunning her, (when at that point he's always acted like a frail old guy) and taking her to an expensive restaurant to buy all the food she wants on his expense, is nothing less than extreme for his character. (And this is BEFORE Koimonogatari.) And, well, Araragi not acting like a perverted idiot who solves everything himself was new too.
>>117391736
What annoyed me was the fact in the LN you seen her talking to the first servant when she first went to Japan. Yet SHAFT said fuck that and went all that shit.
>>117392005
I would say that has to do with it being the first story told from her point of view and not characters being inverted.
>>117391617
except the scene changed to reflect the story and the mood as well as the expressions that she was giving.
If they didn't hold your attention or keep you interested that's one thing, but you're clearly just trying to leverage your opinion using a guideline you don't actually understand.
"Show don't tell" doesn't change just because you switch mediums. Whether or not it's effectively utilizing the medium to present the story is another thing entirely, of which I'd still disagree.
>>117392047
>"Show don't tell" doesn't change just because you switch mediums.
Confirmed for not knowing what you're talking about.
>>117391738
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Show,_don%27t_tell
>>117392005
>Not acting as a perverted idiot
He got some of that in too.
I do agree that the characters in hana appeared different when they were shown from the point of view of Kanbaru but I wouldn't call them inverted.
![[HorribleSubs] Hanamonogatari [720p].mkv_snapshot_01.09.48_[2014.11.24_23.26.39].png](https://i.imgur.com/HkER9GZ.png "[HorribleSubs] Hanamonogatari [720p].mkv_snapshot_01.09.48_[2014.11.24_23.26.39].png")
>>117391797
Hana alternated between imagery and "a talking head" just like Shinobu Time and, well, just about every other lengthy dialogue in the series has.
Granted they went the extra mile with Shinobu Time, but Hana was still on par with most dialogue throughout the series.
>>117392096
>Show, don't tell is a technique often employed in various kinds of texts
>various kinds of texts
>texts
>text
Wow, that sure sounds a lot like film.
>>117392087
>>117391738
do you get all your film knowledge from tvtropes?
>>117392108
I want the whole show in this artstyle
>>117392087
I think he means that just because it switches to animation, doesn't mean the literary part of "show don't tell" ceases to exist.
To those anons here who read the LN's or know how it is to the latest LN.
Do you have anything you wish happened, but was disappointed that it didn't come true to what they hoped to read?
>>117392222
This is true. However, film expands upon it. Here's the first result on google for 'film show don't tell'.
http://thescriptlab.com/screenwriting-101/screenwriting/script-tips/657-film-is-visual-show-dont-tell#
This is the second:
http://www.craveonline.com/film/articles/195281-free-film-school-63-show-dont-tell-damn-it
Note that it describes exactly what happens for Ryouka's flashback as what exactly not to do because it's such an amateur mistake.
>>117392108
I really wish there was more of that art style. I think they make the best EDs and I wish more characters got figures in that style instead of just Hachikuji and Senjoughara.
>>117392290After Tsukimonogatari i hoped to see Araragi go more vamp with his way of dealing things. Owari Vol 3 kicked me in the stomach with my expectation. My fault for believing for such a development.
>>117392290
Did it turn out the book was all just a mirror world andHachikuji didn't become a God?
>>117391040
Fanservice is imagery designed to titilate in some way, that adds nothing to the greater work (except for said titilation), and can actually detract from it (unless your interest lies in that titilation). Not all nudity is fanservice, and not all fanservice is nudity.
Monogatari (the anime) is full of fanservice, but it doesn't fit the usual mold. Nisio is clearly poking fun at fanservice, and it's easy to do that in a medium that doesn't really allow it, but by making such a direct adaptation, SHAFT's series ends up giving out very mixed messages. They could, and perhaps should, have toned down some of the nudity, but it's so ingrained in the source material that it's a case where I have no idea where to draw the line.
>>117392046
>I would say that has to do with it being the first story told from her point of view and not characters being inverted.
I'd say it's both, but it's very much an intentional contrast by Nisio. The title, the character it's about, and the way it starts make that obvious.
>Kizu will never EVER come out
>>117392363
Nah that was the latest LN which is more a bonus chapter. She did become a god to conveniently solve the dilemma to the story.
>>117392433
Thank God. I would have rioted. Did they still go on their date where Hachikuji teased and tried to seduce him a bit?
>>117392341
I actually like the LN artstyle the best. The gothic artstyle looks cool but I can't imagine an entire series being done in it, the work involved is tremendous. Also muh facial expressions.
>>117392473
I can't wait until this is animated.
>>117392461
Nope.
>>117392461
The situation didn't allow for it considering the shit that followed their meeting and what proceeded it. Maybe in the future LN's since Nisio isn't done with the series.
>>117392598
So that was in the mirror world? Is there any real mention of Hachikuji after that? Does he go and visit her?
>>117392386
What do you mean by adds nothing greater to the work? Do you mean the scene with the said fanservice holds no meaning for story or do you mean the nudity itself is not absolutely relevant?
The way you're phrasing it makes it sound titillation is inherently bad. Sure you could remove the nudity and still tell the story you did before but why? It's like an action fight scene, or beautiful scenery, or giant robot transformations. You could leave them out and still have your story but why would you want to?
>>117392636
I thought the newest novel, the one where >>117392341's picture had it take place later where there was plenty of time to do it.
>>117392386
>Fanservice is imagery designed to titilate in some way, that adds nothing to the greater work (except for said titilation)
So you're saying literally every instance of imagery ever is fanservice.
Your doublespeak is visible from a mile away, even when you intentionally use vague, archaic terminology.
The fact that you're now literally advocating censorship leads me to believe you're genuinely some feminazi, because they're the only demographic I've seen mental gymnastics of this degree from.
>>117392389
Isn't the title Flowerstory?
>>117392684
Titillation is implied to be sexual excitement.
He's saying sexuality is bad.
snail best girl
>>117392721
That's what I mean by vague, archaic terminology.
He can't outright say "sexual imagery" because he'll just get shit on in an actual discussion. Instead he relies on something that can mean any form of stimulating material but is *implied* sexual.
And yes, "sexuality is bad" is a very feminist sentiment when it involves artistic depictions of men or women.
>>117392667
Not really.
Bucky-Mono Guitar-ee
>>117392788
>"sexuality is bad"
Please, if you want to blame someone blame the organized religions that put that mentality forward.
"Sexuality is bad" has been around way, way longer than feminism. Feminism is more "sexuality is for women only".
>>117392692
Yes, flowers are usually happy things, not "miserable neurotic girl meets literal ghost from her past and essentially kills her because she can't bear to see her continued existence any longer" things.
>>117392888
That's a bit of dark spin on things, I would say it's more "Troubled girl confront her past to be able to move on" but I see what you mean.
>>117392870
Religious people disparaging sexuality haven't been relevant for years. Feminism on the other hand is a very real hate movement today. I live in the present, not the past.
Feminism is basically "sexuality is bad" because their twisted worldview conflicts with the desires of men and women, not just men.
Nisemonogatari has always been seen as the worst in the monogatari series, yeah the fanservice is fucking higher than usual, a lot of what made bakemonogatari is great isnt in there (eg flashing words on the screen) blah blah blah.
But honestly, nisemonogatari has some of the best conversations the whole series has to offer, especially in the first few episodes! if anything the first few episodes is as 'bakemonogatari' as it gets, then it delves into the shit tier plot and fanservice, if you can wade through it to get to the juicy conversations that can last more than half an episode its fucking amazing, mayoi really takes center stage in this one offering the best the show has to offer.
>>117392976
>Religious people disparaging sexuality haven't been relevant for years.
Then why is nudity such a hassle to get on american tv? It's been this way since forever because of the Puritan roots of the country. Same for all the shithole countries in the middle east. Europe is much better than America in this regard and it's because they are a lot more lax about religion.
>>117392990
actually to be honest, while i did say i think the plot is weak (and yeah it kinda is) the whole idea of what a 'fake' is and the general themes of nisemonogatari are good when thought about, just executed poorly i guess.
>>117392990
Why would you bother saying this after OP said they didn't enjoy the first episodes?
Nise is shit, come to terms with it like the rest of us.
Honestly they should have just adapted Kizu after Bake and called it quits.
>>117393068
Why would they do that when it's one of the best selling anime ever?
>>117393068
>they should have stopped literally printing money.
Sure
>>117393068
actually for the most part i liked neko and most of second season was good especially when araragi wasnt the main character, the two arcs where he was were the weakest out of second season. Ofcourse none of it will ever top Bake, that thing is just a gem and i guess you can see all the others as dead weight to Bake, but I can always just watch bake without even thinking about the rest and not even take into consideration that nise neko and secondseason exist, since it ends on a fairly good point with pretty much no loose ends by its self.
