Do you think animators hate working on moeshit, fujoshit and haremshit?
Is this why talented artists are leaving studios like SHAFT and KyoAni?
>>110535123
>Bahi
>moeshit
Isn't it sad that animators are rarely given this much artistic freedom?
Why is Bones so based?
>>110535123
>BahiJD
>Space Dandy
>moeshit
>fujoshit
>haremshit
>SHAFT
>KyoAni
I don't think I've ever seen this much bait concentrated into one post.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interview/2014-04-16/the-space-dandy/part-ii-bahi-jd
>A bad director would impose limits on us and make us into animation robots in order to preserve the show's consistency
You can hate Bahi all you want but he is right.
Because everyone must hate all the things you hate.
>>110535123
>KyoAni
Why would anyone leave the only studio that doesn't treat its animators like trash?
>>110535834
Only filthy otakus like moeshit and haremshit tho.
>>110535948
I don't think Bones treat their employees like shit either.
>>110535832
Consistency and inconsistency has their proper places. Maybe Bahi should spend more time sending his work before their deadlines instead of twittering all day about work conditions he doesn't even live in.
>>110535948
Because animators are artists.
They need to express themselves artistically but KyoAni doesn't allow that.
>>110536048
isn't it funny that Bahi's unfinished animation looks better than anything in Ping Pong?
Yuasa is just trash and can't manage schedule for shit.
Animating 20 cuts in one week?
No one can do that.
It's not Bahi's fault.
Yukimura Ai joining KyoAni after working at Madhouse for some time.
A rare case of KyoAni accepting other people into their ranks.
>>110536301
More like it's a rare case of people from a better studio to join kyoani.
>>110536365
>Koreahouse
>good
>He had four projects shot down by #KyoAni. #Yamakan
Sounds like a fucking authoritarian company.
>>110536487
Better than KyoAni at least.
>implying kyoani doesn't use koreans
>>110535123
>Is this why talented artists are leaving studios like SHAFT and KyoAni?
I'll be interested in Shaft again once they do another original production, do something with madoka that isn't stupid, air kizu, give denpa another season, release PPD on BD, or make another SZS OVA or season to finish up the story.
I've be interested in KyonAni again once they fix it so Free! isn't their most refreshing and interesting show to air in the past 2 years, give another season for any of their earlier shows that desperately deserve it, or try making something interesting that isn't a SoL.
>>110536559
Kyoani doesn't outsource whole episodes to Korea.
>>110535958
Only filthy landwhales like fujoshit tho.
>>110536832
>>110535958
So they're the same.
http://youtu.be/uTOjLZOBHkY
Animators are into anime and enjoy lots of different aspects to it, just like most fans.
>>110536499
Yamakan is pretty terrible.
>>110536748
>so Free! isn't their most refreshing and interesting show to air in the past 2 years
What the fuck? Free is the same shit they've always done but with shallow male characters swapped for the girls and with more female gaze fanservice. It's not ambitious, interesting or refreshing. It's just pandering.
All the animators I know are lazy cunts who just want to play League of Legends all day and weren't any good with math.
>>110536080
b-but
>>110535832
It's kind of a spot of luck that Space Dandy, being the weird kind of bizarre show it is, actually benefits from odd inconsistent animation.
>>110536928
Do you live in America?
I can't wait for Bahi to move to Japan.
>>110536232
>looks better than anything in Ping Pong?
The fuck you on about
Ping Pong looked glorious.
>>110536897
The characters have substance, theres a plot, relationships between characters progress, and the swimming aspect actually holds relevance. All and all its about a 7/10 show, regardless of the boarderline homo swimmers theme.
Sorry bro but Tamako Market was poorly done in all regards, Chunibyo had terrible writing and didn't deserve a second season, KnK didn't suceed what it wanted to be, and Hyouka was just okay.
No.
>>110536897
I think that's his point.
That everything is so bland, a male cast is the most mold-breaking thing they've done recently.
>>110537060
Compare that to Bahi's works.
>>110537060
>>110537136
I did
and honestly I don't think they could improve at all from what they had
>>110537061
Free landwhales are really this delusional.
>>110537105
Is there a source to this?I want to see this and feel bad about it
>>110535123
Animators only get into the industry because they want to draw moe girls. The pay and working conditions at most studios are awful.
>>110535392
This just convinced me to watch this shit.
>>110535832
Bahi will never survive working on an Okiura project.
>>110537200
So what you're telling me is that all the shows in the second paragraph aren't shit?
>>110537291
Watch the dub. Not even joking.
>>110537105
I hear that owner was this guy.
It sure is fun to be have artistic freedom, but considering that today's anime either has realistic-ish stories that demands consistency than freedom or fantasy LN adaptation with low budget, it's hard to get it.
>>110537061
>Hyouka was just okay
>>110537241
And that's what's killing anime.
The industry is now flooded with mediocre animators.
Talented people left the industry to work elsewhere.
>>110536748
>do something with madoka that isn't stupid
Opinion disregarded.
>>110537314
Bahi can animate super realistically if he wants to.
![[RM] Cool Cool Bye 1986 [DB8E05F7].mkv_snapshot_19.19_[2014.06.30_21.12.59].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/w01CZNt.jpg "[RM] Cool Cool Bye 1986 [DB8E05F7].mkv_snapshot_19.19_[2014.06.30_21.12.59].jpg")
>>110537410
Then why is animation and production quality getting higher and higher? Animators don't write things, anyways. And when they did and do, they made plenty of cute things all on their own.
>>110537525
Like this?
>>110537525
It's not about realism, it's about consistency. Animation work is a team effort and if you agree to work on a project with a specific character design and specific animation direction, you should respect that.
>>110537410
That thread was deleted for a reason.
>>110535123
No, and no.
>>110537554
>Then why is animation and production quality getting higher and higher
It's not.
>>110537721
Can you tell me a time when more television anime series had better animation and production quality.
>>110537752
When all the things I watch is a cherrypicked high-budget OVA shows made before Japan's economic bubble burst.
>>110535123
>moeshit, fujoshit and haremshit
>*shit
So original and witty, you sir have made me chuckle.
>>110537752
Late night TV anime wasn't a thing before Evangelion.
>>110537836
>>110537560
This is awesome.
>>110537396
I honestly thought there was no worse animation blog than Cartoon Brew.
This picture proved me wrong
>>110537839
I never said only late night TV counted.
But OK, how about just in the past two decades or so since Evangelion was released.
>>110537955
Look at the buttons on their shirts. It's also not culturally accurate. It's an early cut by him, but it's really not very good.
>>110537955
Never really liked the cut with the guy jumping in, but the rest of the sequence is cool.
>>110537895
Does reddit even use le any more? Pretty sure 4chan reclaimed it.
>>110537955
>Over-acted bullshit.
How about no?
>>110537955
When taken out of context.
>>110538088
It's called exaggeration.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_basic_principles_of_animation#Exaggeration
>>110535123
Fans in Japan and in the west don't reward them for technique or creativity,so what can you expect
>7 hand drawn years,incredibly expensive
>Fresh and exciting story that ultilizes the medium to the fullest extent
>Should have been a golden egg that printed money
>Caused madhouse to go bankrupt
Why didn't you buy Redline /a/?
You could've stopped it.
rotoscoping
>>110537554
But all REAL animators only make mature sci-fi and realistic drama and cartoonish fantasy! No cute things ever (cute things are evil), and definitely never any fanservice (artists hate sexual things).
>>110536830
you mean whole shows
>>110538138
I watched it on the Internet for free because I'm awesome.
>>110538138
because it's not a Trava's sequel.
>>110538138
>Fresh and exciting story
No it wasn't. And some well animated productions do sell, and some others don't.
>>110538120
It doesn't make any sense given the context. And I mean really, look at the fucking buttons.
Bahi should learn how to rotoscope properly.
>>110538120
When you dive closer and closer to reality the principle of exaggeration becomes moot.
I'm sure they just want to be employed.
>>110538120
When that one technique is not used in the rest of anime, it looks unnatural. Japanese drama direction hates using big moves.
>>110538138
>Fresh and exciting story
You can't be serious.
There were many good qualities about Redline, but the story was shitty.
>>110538011
The article is written by someone in the industry who has done animation directing and key animation, and isn't just some random blogger.
>>110538120
It clearly is not exaggeration in the sense you think it is. Overacting is not exaggerating, it's plain bad acting. You can emphasize certain things and not have it looked god-awful and awkward. Classic Disney films have exaggerated movements and it doesn't look nearly as corny as that clip. Even the worst of the Disney 2D library has better animation than that.
>All of the animators leaving for BONES
>There TV anime have been pretty bad outside of Noragami and ZnT the past 3-4 years
>>110538242
Neither Bahi or anything in GITS is rotoscoped. But I know you're just joking.
>>110538242
Goddamn, Okiura's animation always gives me the tingling at the back of my head.
It's like the sakuga version of ASMR.
>>110538317
Chaika was good. And they do always strive for good animation regardless of how bad the show is.
>>110537955
This is rotoscope
Why does nobody mention Yozakura Quartet?
Impressive animation that was consistent for most of the episodes, and didn't have any hype or big names attached.
>>110538413
I'm sure it's the type of show OP would call "moeshit".
>>110538413
>didn't have any hype or big names attached
>Ryo-timo, Shingo Yamashita plus a dozen other web gen animators, and Norio Matsumoto solo animating half an episode
No big names alright.
>>110538317
Except Captain Earth their shows are decent now. The animators are top-notch overall, though. Dat Chaika fights.
I-is this the era of Bones again? Can we now have a sequel to Eureka Seven?Haha.
I'm friends with the guy who does a lot of the animation for Superjail and he said it's actually pretty easy and quick, even if you hate it or like it.
Even god-tier animation apparently is done fairly quickly due to modern techniques and equipment making it easy enough to finish the entire animation for an episode within a day or two. I can't imagine animators would hate their work if it goes by so fast.
>>110538487
Chaika's animation ranged from shit to okay at best, and lets not even talk about Soul Eater Not. Space Dandy has been stealing Bones best animators.
>>110538228
It's an indirect sequel,the best kind of sequel.
>>110538500
I just watched KLK documentary.
It took them an entire week to animate just one cut for the OP.
>>110538399
They should get better writers sometimes.
>>110538413
YQ has a lot of big names.
>>110538564
Then they were being incompetent and judging from a lot of the mess ups they did along the way I'm not surprised. Most of that time was probably used experimenting with something or fixing a fuck-up.
>>110535123
Sure, but I think they like getting paid more.
>>110538500
>finish the entire animation for an episode within a day or two
Maybe for a show like Teekyu, sure.
>>110538500
>comparing flash animation to hand drawn
you needed at least one reply to your bullshit. so there you go.
>>110538672
10 weeks hand-drawn
RIP in pieces Emura
>>110538500
Even if it's true, if it's repetitive then it's not much better than your average factory workers' jobs. Mediocrity is the norm there. People can't help desiring more than that. A good director and his studio team would anticipate that, and act.
I think animators hate working in terrible conditions and getting inhumane pay. In this case I don't believe they want to leave KyoAni, but SHAFT? Yes.
>>110538667
>Superjail
>FLASH tweens
Welcome to Wrongville. Population, you.
I'm sure he misheard the information though. There are many part of the animation process that you can accomplish quite easily, but finished animation is not one of them.
>>110538529
It was pretty good for what was probably their lowest priority show at the time.
>>110538702
10 weeks is crazy for anime but it's quite common for Disney film, apparently.
Sometimes the animator can spend a month to just plan out a scene, doing study, thumbnailing and shit.
Or maybe they're just being lazy. I don't know.
Once more for good measure.
>Bahi JD
>>110535123
They don't leave anyone or anything, animators are freelancers and work for different studios all the time.
>>110535392
It's sad that there's ignorant people like you.
>>>110535832
Bahi is just proving more that he is a retard who don't understand nothing about animation production.
Each animator have their own place for work, they are not robots since directors leave work for them, but you can't just disregard the whole thing simply because muh style.
Bahi is a pretentious sandnigger, the worst possible mis ever existed.
>>110538860
Disney animators seem to do a lot of research on the subject they are animating, so taking many weeks sounds normal.
>>110538860
That webm was a movie scene.
>>110538768
Yes. It uses Flash.
Why do people still think the only tool in Flash is tweening? Flash is a great program.
>>110537362
>>110537291
I like the dub a lot but I found it not nearly as good during the more serious moments of the series.
>>110538949
Its brush and pencil tool are shit though.I still use it because I'm too lazy to learn TVPaint.
>>110538949
Flash animation is slang for flash tweening, because the tweening does the animation for you. If they're using flash to draw frame by frame then nobody says "animated with flash".
>>110536748
Can't we leave Madoka alone? It's really good as is.
>>110537105
>animators tell that he like what he's doing
>directors explains how industry works
>they using it as "proof" to muh industry dying shitposting
Every time.
>>110538965
Since when is Dandy ever serious?
>>110538949
Because muh Flash boogeyman.
>>110539122
>Since when is Dandy ever serious?
>Space Dandy - 13
I like the dub better for that one too, because autotuned qt is qt
>>110539077
>Flash animation is slang for flash tweening
Maybe for retards on /a/ it is.
>If they're using flash to draw frame by frame then nobody says "animated with flash".
Then what the fuck do you call it. "Animated with Flash but not really"?
>>110539134
>stock face assets
>>110539134
>flash AND cg
Holy shit it's like this gif encompasses the entirety of animation cancer.
>>110535123
>>110536080
>Source: my ass
BONES should invest in some writers
I'm so fucking tired of this shit and you pretentious faggots.
If you think things are bad why don't you fucking leave? why the fuck do you need to make all this waste of time threads and shitposting on /a/ when you are not going to watch half of the shows because "muh muh industry".
I'm really sick of you.
>>110536048
>about work conditions he doesn't even live in.
He's not allowed to be concerned for his coworkers' lives and the state of the industry he's a part of?
>>110539211
take a break bruh. remember it's 4:20 somewhere
>/v/ using animation as an excuse to hate on moe
As little as /a/ knows about animation, /v/ knows even less.
Talented animators work on whatever arouses their passions. And whatever pays well. Sometimes they overlap, sometimes they don't. Not all animators are some sort of auteur looking to create true art, most are just otaku with a vested interest in anime of all sorts. Remember pic related?
I mean, come on, you'd have to be stupid to think that somehow moe and fanservice is inversely correlated with production quality. Look at War on Geminar. Look at YZQ. Look at K-On. Look at fucking Milky Holmes. Hell, let us not forget one of the greatest animators of all time, who did the iconic god-warrior scene in Nausicaa pretty much solo, and went on to invent a revolutionary breast jiggle. Oh, and Eva.
>>110539110
To be fair, though, a lot of directors in anime are just failed film directors, so they have film-based outlooks. Thankfully, that's becoming less and less the case.
>>110538867
I used to think that he was a hack, too, but his collabs with Yutapon on SD were seriously good. Like, top tier almost.
No bully Bahi. He made a deal with the devil and it shows in his face. Bully arasan instead.
>>110538860
Remember that Disney has ridiculous manpower, though
>>110537362
>>110538965
Fuck off, /co/.
>>110538500
And I know a guy from Archer who says the animation is pretty simple.
That doesn't say shit about anime, though. You have to understand that the practices are completely different. Hell, in the west, 2D animation is more akin to puppetry nowadays.
>>110538949
This is true. But again, It's not good to be RELIANT on anything but your hands.
>>110537105
Anyone who likes Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou is all right by me.
>>110535123
Not really. A lot of animators love working on moeshit. They're willing to do it even if they're paid peanuts. A lot of their personal drawings are moeshit and a lot of them love idolshit, too. Why the fuck else would they continue to do it if the pay is so horrible and the competition is cutthroat?
Bahi is a cancer in the anime industry. His stuff is so visually jarring that Jun Arai cuts might be better if that's even possible. At least they're hilariously bad. Either way, they both have a similar effect.
There is not a huge job market for animators. They don't care what they are working on. Do you hate working at Target? Would you rather work a more glamorous retail job? Tough shit.
![[gg]_Star_Driver_-_25_[CFF4807E].mkv_snapshot_07.46_[2013.06.27_11.44.42].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/E6WEkna.jpg "[gg]_Star_Driver_-_25_[CFF4807E].mkv_snapshot_07.46_[2013.06.27_11.44.42].jpg")
>>110539256
>Bully arasan instead.
Arasan is GOAT
>>110535832
"Imposing limits in order to preserve the show's consistency" doesn't necessarily make the staffs into robots. It's just a case of wholly bad directing. It is not the case that the show needs animation consistency or not, but it is the case that whether the animation fits into his vision or not. The ability to realize his vision is a sign of good directing, but this is too much to ask nowadays. "Directors" now have barely any visions at all. Quite the contrary, directors necessarily have to be authoritarian and impose limits, in order to capture the vision he wants to the visual art. This is why it's often that, back then, directors such as Ingmar Bergman only hired the same casts over and over again, since it's his "circlejerking team", who could stand his detailed and demanding vision.
>>110538413
Reminder that YQ was animated digitally, probably in RETAS aka Japanese Flash.
>>110539161
>Maybe for retards on /a/ it is.
People use "flash" in place of "software tweening" all the time, even on /co/.
>Then what the fuck do you call it. "Animated with Flash but not really"?
It's just using a software program to compile the drawn frames, whether they're scanned in or using a tablet. It doesn't really matter what program it is, people will say it's handdrawn animation if it's done without tweens, even if the program they used was flash/toonboom/whatever.
I remember some fag tried to pass off Ghibli movies (who use a software program Toonz) as proof of "the wonders of what flash like programs can do" and putting it beside tweened shows like Wakfu, Wonder over Yonder, etc, while completely misunderstanding how they actually use their given programs.
Continued from >>110539324
Reading the interview, it's obvious that he intended to praise Watanabe as an example of good director. However, judging from his statements, obviously he didn't know even the basics of visual art directing, like I mentioned above. Take a look at his words on "go wild and free", while remaining "in balance" (in moderation). It means nothing other than "he's happy under Watanabe('s limits)". Nothing other than that.
I'm disappointed with him. For someone to be given a chance to argue at all would mean that he has enough credibility to speak on the subject. I suspect that he only got the chance on ANN because he's a "successful gaijin", to promote bigger overseas marketing. Literally worse than identity politics.
>>110539235
He doesn't know.
>>110539328
And it looked damn nice for a TV anime.
I wish more studios would understand that consistency matters.
So many shows where they dump half the budget into the first episode, and then have to stretch their budget for the rest of the season.
>>110539328
A lot of YZQ was still animated on pencil and paper, the episodes with the "digital animation" credits were the ones that had extensive usage of software such as Flash or something similar for drawing.
>>110539256
>I used to think that he was a hack, too, but his collabs with Yutapon on SD were seriously good. Like, top tier almost.
I don't think anyone really denies that the guy has animation talent.
He's just a huge prick that tries to act older than he is by parroting Watanabe's opinions and who believes in the mythical "golden age of anime" that people from /co/ and /v/ like to go on about.
>>110535123
First, I'd like to know why there are people who not only tolerate, but unironically like and defend Shinbo's bullshit in SHAFT. There's individual style, and then there's Shinboism. Fuck him.
>>110539328
The director uses Flash.
One of the animation directors build his own customized version of Flash according to Bahi.
>>110539256
Also reminds me of the Shaft porn animations.
>>110539235
He's working in Japan right now.
>>110539256
>I used to think that he was a hack, too, but his collabs with Yutapon on SD were seriously good. Like, top tier almost.
Ever consider the fact that you might have shit taste? It could be your limitation as a gaijin.
>>110539393
cuz SHinbo is good
he's like the Kubrick of anime
>>110536080
>Kyoani
>Not one of the few studios with control of their assets.
>Not one of the few studios that pays its animators a living wage
>Not one of the few studios that don't have to suck a publisher/producer's cock
Say what you will about their shows, KyoAni is by far the mostFREEof the studios. Hell, gay swimming is entirely a labor of love.
>>110539134
>>110539166
The irony is that despite their invention of the principles, one of Disney cartoons' biggest weaknesses today is their reluctance to go off-model or use exaggerations.
>>110539181
CG references have been used in anime since the late 80s. Come the fuck on.
>>110539204
No shit OP is /v/ermin.
>>110539277
>>110539291
This is very much true. Animation has a ridiculously high turnover rate, over 50% if I remember correctly. That's why they're treated so badly. There's such a big supply of wannabe animators that they drive their own wages down.
Need a union or anything.
>Bahi is a cancer in the anime industry. His stuff is so visually jarring that Jun Arai cuts might be better if that's even possible. At least they're hilariously bad. Either way, they both have a similar effect.
>Using a in-between frame
Pls.
You could say the same about Ohira, Yamashita, Ryosuke Sawa, Niho, and a bazillion net animators. It's not unique to him. Don't just hate on Bahi because he's famous, find actual reasons. I mean, sure, he's overrated, but by no means is he shit. Anymore. He used to be just terrible, but improved a ton.
>>110539308
Otaking pls
>>110539328
Digital assistance =! digital animation.
It's drawn by hand, edited together with a computer and colored and processed as such. It isn't interpolated or anything with CG, like you see in many flash cartoons.
Unless you mean literally it's frames set in motion by a computer. Then, yes.
>>110539489
>the Kubrick of anime
Shut up you
>>110537061
>Hyouka was just okay
>>110539393
Shinbo are barely involved with SHAFT's shows nowadays. If you want to watch Shinbo being Shinbo, watch Cossette.
>>110539489
If you want to bait like that, go back to >>>/tv/.
>>110539496
People hates Bahi because he speaks English.
If /a/ can read Japanese they'd probably hate Kitakubo more.
>>110539277
Pretty much. I don't know why "outsiders" seem to think industry people and animators are casuals like them. They're nerds and otakus and animefags (or like Anno said, "basically autistic"). Really, why wouldn't they be?
>>110539328
I've heard this before. How did they use that program?
>>110539496
Disney's talent is long gone. Japan surpassed them a long time ago.
>>110535123
>Do you think animators hate working on moeshit, fujoshit and haremshit?
Yes.
>Is this why talented artists are leaving studios like SHAFT and KyoAni?
Very few talented artists work on anime.
>>110537136
Ping Pong is much better. Bahi'd animation is pretty fucking good but it doesn't have any artistic merit and isn't as interesting as the animation is Ping Pong. Ping Pong is much more visually appealing to me as well.
>>110539576
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=446gA-tw6pE
>>110539565
What has been Kitakubo been up to lately anyway?
>>110537291
Word of advice, S2 so far is amazing, and probably 10 times better than S1.
I personally liked moments of S1, but I never actually laughed at a lot of the stuff, I was just amused. I kept watching because I enjoyed the premise and it was a fun ride because of Dandys English voice actor, which is why it gets in my top 10.
However, S2 I've actually, legitimately laughed, and kept laughing multiple times. And we're only 2 episodes in.
So if you find season 1 a struggle, push on my friend, you'll probably find the second season a lot more enjoyable. If you find season 1 enjoyable like I did, you'll love season 2. Just as others have said, make sure to watch it dubbed.
>>110539621
*in Ping Pong
>>110539578
As much as I absolutely loathe CG animation, Disney is pretty good at it.
There's talent in Disney, its just that they're forced to waste it on shit.
>>110539635
Didn't he work on that shitty Gonzo show?
>>110539578
Thats fucking hilarious
Kill yourself kid. Japan wishes it could be at Disney level.
>>110539378
Because they have to make an impact to impress people. Lots of shows don't have any budget at all to use in the first place, and stretching out the first episode won't make much of a difference spread out to 12 episodes.
That said, I think this issue is getting better and better, actually. Some shows have had pretty good consistency lately.
>>110539328
What do you mean "animated digitally"? Something can be coloured digitally, and compiled digitally, but if each frame is hand drawn then the animation itself isn't digital.
>>110539496
>You could say the same about Ohira, Yamashita, Ryosuke Sawa, Niho, and a bazillion net animators.
I would say the same about a lot of net animators. They're kinda shit compared to the people who studied traditionally. That's what happens when you spend all your time trying to animate nakamura swordfights and fx and shit that isn't really practical all day. painvsnaruto.wmv
>>110539653
If it's true, then I don't even know why too. Even if they just make an average to decent shows the market would still pick any Disney movies. Why even care that much?
>>110539661
>>110539635
Not Gonzo
>?????? ?????????2014??????????OP
>>110539578
Nah.
There's still plenty of talent at Disney.
>Japan surpassed them a long time ago.
Japan is still trying to into CG.
>>110539433
You mean SHAFT porn, or ACTUAL Shinbou porn?
>>110539410
>>110539328
>>110539378
>>110539382
Again, nothing wrong with flash. Computer tweening is a big issue, but no shit people have been using computer assistance to animate for a decade now. You know how tough it is to edit on film? You know the difficulties of coloring in cels? Yeah, think about that for a moment. Meticulously coloring EVERY FUCKING DETAIL with a camel hair brush on translucent sheets. Especially with shading, oh the fucking shading.
It's very challenging, to say the least.
Again, distinction between digital assistance, and all-digital animation.
>>110539519
>Shinbo are barely involved with SHAFT's shows nowadays. If you want to watch Shinbo being Shinbo, watch Cossette.
Or Soultaker. OrMadoka.
It's a shame Oishi left Shaft, I loved his direction in Bake.
>>110539393
Because he makes the most of what he has, which is usually jack squat. It's in the same vein as Dezaki.
>>110539479
No, I was genuinely surprised too. He's really not a bad animator (anymore).
>>110539578
Disney still gets talent. It just squanders it.
>>110539621
>Any animation
>No artistic merit
Oh anon sing me thine tale from thine arse.
>>110539653
>Implying
I watched the first ten minutes of Frozen. The textures were worse than toy story. Bleh.
>>110539696
They could probably be Disney or higher if they had money. Western animation and studios are usually very well funded. Poor animators in Nippon have to make do with a pittance after their distributors take the bulk of the earnings.
>>110538400
nah man, I've seen the cuts Bahi did and it's not rotoscoped.
>>110539696
Disney peaked with Sleeping Beauty.
Meanwhile Japan has guys like Imaishi and Yuasa who are on a level beyond any Western animator/director.
>>110539653
I won't deny it. Frozen and Tangled are incredible. But I was referring to 2D animation. I think when Japan invests completely in 3D, they'll be even better.
>>110539700
>That's what happens when you spend all your time trying to animate nakamura swordfights and fx and shit that isn't really practical all day. painvsnaruto.wmv
Have you even considered that they weren't given any chances at all to study traditionally, i.e., as a protege? IIRC only Sunrise consistently do that, even when Tomino often being a dick master figure.
>>110539746
They are well funded because they have the talent to be.
Don't try and pretend Japan is at their level. Their animators had to go through school just like they did.
>>110539700
It's because traditional animators learnt by doing inbetweens for years before they ever actually got good at anything. Now koreans do most of those instead.
>>110539806
Well then why doesn't japan just become korea
>>110539788
>Disney peaked with Sleeping Beauty.
>
>Meanwhile Japan has guys like Imaishi and Yuasa who are on a level beyond any Western animator/director.
This is some nice bait
>>110539788
>Disney peaked with Sleeping Beauty.
Yo man, 101 Dalmatians was the shit.
>>110539735
>Oh anon sing me thine tale from thine arse.
you shouldn't reply if you don't have anything to say
>>110535948
TMS also treats it's animators wonderful too.
>>110539849
It was great. I should have said plateau, not peaked.
>>110539700
Ohira is an associated professor in animation.
I'm pretty sure he must have studied traditionally.
>>110538965
So for 5 minutes total?
>>110539839
Imaishi is a one trick pony.
>>110539839
Can you name some good currently working western animators who are involved in television or film now.
>>110539788
>Disney peaked with Sleeping Beauty.
>Meanwhile Japan has guys like Imaishi and Yuasa who are on a level beyond any Western animator/director.
Jesus Christ, go back to fucking Gaia or something. You are starting to sound like a legitimate weaboo.
>>110535123
So this guy is a baka gaijin that somehow got a work in anime industry as an animator? That's pretty interesting.
>>110539788
>Disney peaked with Sleeping Beauty.
Someone get this hothead outta here
>>110539788
>Imaishi and Yuasa as examples of good animators
>Imaishi a good director
k man...it's time to stop posting...anywhere
>>110538894
You are certainly the most educated one here, anonymous. I trust you more than anyone to tell it to me like it actually is.
>>110539859
Holy shit he's asking that under what criteria you are judging artistic merits and animations from. Without doing that you're basically pulling shit out of your ass you dumb pretentious fuck.
>>110539788
>Disney peaked with Sleeping Beauty.
This is some great trolling. Sleeping Beauty was great but Disney had a ton of well animated films that came after. Mother fucking Sleeping Beauty came out in 1959 for fucks sake.
You need to tone the weeaboo down.
>>110539735
>>Any animation
>>No artistic merit
If I drew a flipbook's worth of me fucking you in the ass, is that art?
>>110539893
Glen Keane
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9CG_PoEWCg
>>110539931
I dunno, if its anatomically correct, and smooth.
fucking Bahi is living my dream ;_;
>>110539931
That'd be pretty cool.
I always wanted to try drawing a flipbook, but along with the amount of time and patience, and having no artistic skill whatsoever, I never got around to it.
The americans never mastered 2D animation, Milt Kahl was the only guy at disney who was on the same level as Inoue but now, Inoue already broke Milt's limit.
The japanese mastered 2D animation with Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Iso, Ohira, Okiura.
>>110539913
Even a monkey can draw. What is important are ideas and aesthetics. Anime is really uncreative and lack artistry. It's a product, commodity rather than art.
>shaft
>talent
They go to fucking deen. Still an improvement, I guess.
What a fantastic thread this is. We have /co/cks, weebs, anti-weebs, and retards who have no fucking clue what they're talking about. You faggots should all go kill yourselves.
These few seconds still has more frames of actual drawn animation than most current western shows do for a whole episode.
>The americans never mastered 2D animation
Bullshit, Disney during the latter half of the twentieth century was nigh unbeatbale for animation quality.
>>110539991
>These few seconds still has more frames of actual drawn animation than most current western shows do for a whole episode.
I blame Adventure Time and Stuart Snyder.
>>110539988
I blame Bahi. He's like a miniature Miyazaki in his ability to create shitposts.
>>110539955
I guess that's a good point.
What if it was just stick figures? That's how I imagined it.
>>110539977
Just do it, nerd.
>>110539700
See, I don't get that. They aren't conventional certainly and don't have the same amount of detail but that minimalism also gives them a ton of room to explore other things in almost an expressionist sense. You get a lot more freedom of movement with the simplified character designs, and the choreography is usually top-notch. Honestly, it isn't too much different from what Iso or Nakamura or Tanaka have been doing for years - cutting down on shades and internal linework to give the animation more dynamism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duV_Po5SzvY
The problem isn't with their style. It's with their youth and inexperience. They seem so eager to make a name and to be unique that sometimes they put the verisimilitude and consistency of the show as a second priority. That's the problem, NOT their artstyle. It's the fact they're pretentious. Don't worry, they'll learn in time. Yamashita certainly has toned down quite a bit.
>>110539788
>Implying
Williams.gif
There's no point comparing cock sizes. Both east and west have good talent, east just has more of it, or at least is utilizing more of it, with the dearth of 2D in the west.
>>110539798
No shit, that's why they're called "net animators". They don't come to notoriety through ordinary channels. That said, they're certainly not bad.
>>110539862
Famicom pls go back to /co/
>>110539884
>I've literally only been here since KLK aired
Hahahahahaha
I hate how his name has become a buzzword now.
>>110539910
>>>/tumblr/
Seriously animation threads draw in the worst /co/ fags.
>>110539931
Artistic merit is completely subjective; it's very biased to say what has and doesn't have artistic merit. We live in a post-structuralist world, anon.
And yes, I'd be flattered.Can I be a cute trap?
>>110539988
Agreed.
That said it is still nice to get a few animation threads here and there.
>>110540027
TRANSLATION
ERROR
How many times will it take before you retards get it.
>>110537241
No that 90% fake. Only the smaller studios are like that, most the of major ones pay at least 2000 yen a hour.
>>110539880
I didn't say he wasn't trained traditionally. His work in GITS for example is very good. I don't like his 2deep4u style (like in FLCL) but I can't deny some of the work he's done.
>>110539798
Sure, but that doesn't change anything.
>>110539922
Disney's golden age of innovating and experimentation happened well before their full featured film era.
They've been stagnating for literal decades. Most of their best work is in Silly Symphonies. Cartoons from the 30's. People on 4chan aren't capable of grasping this, of course, because they believe anything with a smooth framerate is the pinnacle of good animation.
Stay wrong, though. The achieved technical perfection of their ideals with Sleeping Beauty, and they've been coasting ever since.
>>110539981
What about Richard Williams?
>>110539950
> who are involved in television or film now.
I meant actually animating for television and film. And actually now.
>>110540078
I agree to some extent.
All their feature films are good though, up until the Nigger and the Nigger.
>>110540059
>>110540078
I want you guys to leave
>>110539735
>>110539913
I'll rephrase- it doesn't have as much artistic merit as the animation in Ping Pong.
Bahi's animation is pretty appealing aesthetically but it doesn't have any intended (or unintended) meaning or purpose, and in Ping Pong it's much more creative and interesting, both aesthetically and not.
>>110540078
You're wrong though.
>The achieved technical perfection of their ideals with Sleeping Beauty
Sleeping Beauty isn't from 30s.
>>110540027
Bahi is a troll.
Seriously.
He shitposted sakuga thread.
He says controversial things on twitter.
He samefagged sakuga videos on youtube.
He's trying to stir shit up on sakugabooru.
I wouldn't be surprised if he's in this thread.
>>110540078
Oh yes and glorious nippon has been innovating since forever amirite?
Please leave and kill yourself.
>>110536951
Well, it did sell a shitload
>>110540059
>How many times will it take before you retards get it.
I know it was. It still creates shitposts. Those week of threads in January were so, so terrible.
I also blame ANN. For everything they do. I hate them so much.
>>110540157
They've been innovating the art of cute girls.
>>110540106
I don't dislike Disney or their work. The Emperor's New Groove is better than most of the anime on my 3x3. It's just a fact that they stagnated and the talent in Japan is greater now than it ever was in the West.
>>110540078
>The achieved technical perfection of their ideals with Sleeping Beauty
Who Framed Roger Rabbit is arguably more technically impressive than Sleeping Beauty. You're also talking out of your ass.
>>110540157
Ghibli (they're more or less Disney's counterpart) has been stagnating for about 10 years, but other than that it has been much more innovative than American mainstream animation.
>>110540157
Name one visionary in the West on the level of either Hiroyuki Imaishi or Masaaki Yuasa. I'll give you forever, because you'll never answer seriously.
>>110538672
Is innocence worth watching? I've seen the first GITS movie and Solid State Society, I loved them very much.
>>110540230
Don Hertzfeldt.
>>110540082
>This scene already look good on 3s
>let's add more frames
>See? It looks better on 2s.
>more frames
>1s is the best. Why stopped at 2s when you can animate on 1s?
Richard Williams' lecture in a nutshell.
>>110539984
>Even a monkey can draw.
A monkey can't draw you goddamn stupid sacks of pretentious bullshit. Cue the 'thousand monkeys type randomly in eternity and have a chance to produce Hamlet' thought-experiment.
>What is important are ideas and aesthetics.
Stop. Beating. Around. The. Bush.
Do tell then so I can ridicule your apparent waste of life.
>Anime is really uncreative and lack artistry. It's a product, commodity rather than art.
HOW the fuck then? You can of course do literary criticism using Frankfurt Schools of thought and methodology (for example Adorno's critique of mass culture), but you MUST establish a REASON as to why you relate this theory to the current social facts, and then you must explain HOW the problem is interlinked to artistic domain AND social domain. For starter, it is a MASS art for a reason. Even Adorno acknowledged that.
>>110540156
>He's trying to stir shit up on sakugabooru.
I love going there. What's he doing?
But yes I can find it very easy to believe he trolls forums.
>>110540157
They're at least keeping their industry alive .
>>110540254
Do you like philosophy quotes being shoved up your ass for two hours?
>>110540214
>rotoscoping
>technically impressive
>>110537752
Between Wuzzles to CyberSix.
>>110540254
Innocence is the definition of pretentious. I wouldn't recommend watching it.
>>110538281
I stand corrected
>>110540230
Sylvain Chomet
>>110540288
Is it that bad story-wise?
>>110539433
Say what?
>>110540139
He never stated that Sleeping Beauty was from the 30's. He was talking about Silly Symphonies when the 30's were mentioned.
>>110540230
>Imaishi
>visionary
Jesus mate, at least name Miyazaki or something. Yes, yes, I know - he's a fucktard and an overrated one, but you can't deny that HE has vision.
Is there any CG movie that looks better than Captain Harlock?
>>110540156
>Any animator
>Caring about /a/
>>110540134
Maybe, but I wouldn't really call that artistic merit.
>>110540167
I fucking hate Zac.
>>110540177
And god bless.
>>110540157
Honestly, more so than the west. Necessity is the mother of invention, and Nips typically have many small studios with small budgets rather than a handful with infinite money. A lot of things in anime, photograph memories or the use of action lines or the cinematic feel shows started to take on past the late 70s - all can be attributed to that. Japanese animators have certainly been more innovative in exploring new things, which is part of why I don't fully understand the hate for net animators.
>>110540230
Do you know only those two names?
Don Bluth.
Again, I still think Japanese have been more innovative, but you're a retard if you think the west has no good animators.
>>110540186
True, but that's because they hit a plateau with quality. They no longer needed to innovate to make things look nice, they can just polish it until it does.
Again, necessity is the mother of invention.
>>110540294
Holy shit. Do you literally not know what rotoscoping means?
>Roger rabbit
>rotoscoping
At least use Heavy metal or something you dumb shit
>>110540271
That's why he went broke, man.
>>110540371
Transformers.
>>110539950
Aw man Keane is the shit. Loved his work in the little mermaid, and everything else of course.
>>110540334
Its very pretty, the soundtrack is nice, but I really can't remember a single thing from the story except for constant quotations and namedropping philosophers.
It has been a couple years since I watched it though.
>>110540315
How about the new material? Arise? Does that hold water?
>>110540376
>tfw they ruined Maka forever
>we will never see original Maka animated again
;_;
>>110535123
>moeshit, fujoshit and haremshit
Fuck off.
>>110538241
>>110538268
Story was fine,it had a plot that justified itself,and did justice to every action movie ever made.The only story problem was the loose end where they never explained the giant fucking blue monster mear the end.
>>110540399
No, I mean for real.
>>110540376
animation (in itself) is a really aesthetic medium, and as such its artistic merit should be judged according to its innovation, creativity and aesthetic appeal.
>>110540284
You do know western animations makes a shit ton more than japanese animation and is very much so still alive.
Wait wait wait
Bahi is a 19 year old austrian kid who started to work in pro animation because he made gud gif animations?
What am I doing with my life?
>>110540420
I haven't watched it, but I've heard that Arise is pretty, "eh." Not exactly good, but not exactly bad either.
Since this thread seems to be about anything now
>America goes to japan to make the Tron cartoon
>Goes to korea to make Avatar and Korra
>goes to japan to make the Pacific Rim cartoon
Whether you think they're shit or not, they do/will have things like plot and action. Why doesn't someone make a western studio to do them instead?
