What is so bad about harem? Why do so many people act like they're offended by fanservice in anime?
By default they have a bad plot and you watch harems for the girls, yet most of them turn into misunderstanding bullshit where nothing happens.
You gotta mine the good ones, like pic related.
people like to feel superior
To be honest the kind of love expressed in anime doesn't exist in reality. In anime, love is real. The animators will a world into reality where love and honest affection is real. In its attempt to be real, it surpasses the original, and indeed BECOMES the original. The original, in our world, is in fact the sham. We wrote poetry to represent the love we felt. We read the poetry and created in ideal love. But, in reality, there is nothing but chemicals and dopamine. True love is not real. It's an idealized emotion no one will ever feel. However, anime is different. The girls in anime truly love you, for it exists in their reality. There is no need to worry about finding an equivalent in real life. It doesn't exist. No one will love you in real life, because love doesn't exist. It's time to grow wings and fly into the arms of anime girls, the only beings who will ever truly hold love for you.
Any harem would be ten times better if they focused on the girl I like, since by being harems they defacto fail at this they turn to shit.
Lets face it, sometimes you don't need 10 shitty girls, just 1 good one.
>>142091534
Because they never fucking end and if they actually end, they never resolve.
>>142091534
>What is so bad about harem?
You're missing the point.
Harems are fine, and harems full of fanservice are fine too.
What's annoying as hell is when a series starts out as something else, then devolves into a generic battle harem after the first arc/cour/season.
Why put thought or effort into your anime when you can just put boobs in it and permavirgins will eat it up?
>>142091534
There's nothing that forces a harem show to have shallow characterization, bad plots, and terrible pacing, but the correlation is awfully high.
![Sky Wizards Academy Episode 02 (Sehjada).mp4_snapshot_04.59_[2015.12.20_01.56.10].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/HWuNj76.jpg "Sky Wizards Academy Episode 02 (Sehjada).mp4_snapshot_04.59_[2015.12.20_01.56.10].jpg")
>>142091534
>What is so bad about harem?
In and of itself nothing.
The problem with them as I care is that far too often the girls in said harem are nothing more than stock archetypes whose entire character revolves from bland no personality hero.
It's not that the genre is bad it's just plague by lazy writers who use it as an excuse to not develop their story or cast.
What's more if it's a battle harem the girls will end up as nothing more than useless accessories to the hero who "WILL PROTECT HIS FRIENDS" and that's the stretch of his entire personality.
Incidentally it's probably why I liked Sky Wizards. I mean it was by all accounts a shitty show but it did a few things I feel are important to note.
The hero isn't some spineless dope. He just wasn't into them. He had a very clear and often enjoyable personality to watch and his interaction with the girls made it understandable why they might dig him.
The girls themselves. The show was more about their growth and developing team work than it was anything else. Hell the end of the show actually had them be the ones who saved the day by putting their lessons to practice and they had real interaction and chemistry that wasn't about the MC's D.
>>142091727
Well if you're going to take that point of view then the whole human experience isn't real. Philosophically you might not consider it to be real but the hormones in your body and your neurons firing do indeed happen and your brain does indeed interpret it as whatever experience you're having currently.
>>142091967
>What's annoying as hell is when a series starts out as something else, then devolves into a generic battle harem after the first arc/cour/season.
Almost every time people complain about this it's them going into something that's obviously going to be a harem and then complaining that it wasn't some super-well-written deep masterpiece.
>>142092067
>oh boohoo I want to watch nip cartoons that are mature so I can share them to daddy
>>142092143
well I think it's less that and more the fact that they go to such lengths to create a setting then throw it away for harem antics which don't really need that crazy a setting to work.
>>142092105
>It's not that the genre is bad it's just plague by lazy writers who use it as an excuse to not develop their story or cast.
^This.
Most harems exist because the writers of them are so bad or lazy that they're simply incapable of conceiving and developing characters who aren't either 'bad guys', 'exposition machines', or 'girl who is in love with the MC'.
>>142092205
Like what?
>>142091534
Believe it or not, some people come to anime to experience something well made and intellectually stimulating (crazy, I know). Harems for the most part don't exactly fit into that category.
>>142091534
Best girls "almost" getting the D
>>142092149
Are you actually trying to make me feel bad for wanting to watch anime that's well written and thought provoking? I hope you realize it's thanks to people like you that anime will never be taken seriously as a medium of entertainment.
>>142091534
Harem fanbase are shit. They communicate by saying girls they don't like are shit and throw a tantrum when their favorite girl didn't win.
>>142092143
>Almost every time people complain about this it's them going into something that's obviously going to be a harem and then complaining that it wasn't some super-well-written deep masterpiece.
SAO was the main example I was thinking of, and that series was completely harem-free and stuck to its premise (more or less) for its first arc, before it turned into generic battle harem #4351
>>142091534
it's a common cliche
How come if we take a look at any forums outside of /a/ its nothing but posts like:
>ewww too much fanservice
>I think the panty shots were annoyingly unnecessary and just downright rude
>lol harem? I only watch psychological, thriller, and Monster by naoki urusawa
>>142092311
She looks like a dumpster fire.
>>142092359
It was already generic from episode one
watch Hack
>>142091534
O P E N E N D I N G S
nothing else.
Because it isn't done well by most people.
Hitoshi Okuda, Ken Akamatsu, and Kosuke Fujishima, do it well.
Main thing is that the girls aren't supposed to be the point of the show. They are there to help the protagonist on his story.
Whether he is trying to get into university, race cars and bikes, teach middle school english and find out who turned his village into stone, or become the supreme being of the universe.
>>142091534
Mostly women/sjw because it doesn't pander to their sensibilities. This type of show is easy to ignore but certain groups can't stand it existing.
>>142092400
That's like half the threads on /a/ nowadays. We're overrun by maturefags bitching about how otaku pandering ruined the industry and things should be more like American television.
>>142092359I wish I had a response, but I don't, since I never made it to the second cour of SAO.
>>142091889
Same thing with slice of life, but I don't see you complaining about that.
>>142092460
>Main thing is that the girls aren't supposed to be the point of the show. They are there to help the protagonist on his story.
Because you said so?
>>142092460
>Ken Akamatsu does it well
>>142092443
>It was already generic from episode one
I don't take recommendations from morons. SAO had a premise which hadn't been done before, so calling it 'generic from episode one' merely signals that you don't know how criticism works.
>>142092328
And those exist. No one forces you to watch harem.
>>142092259
I did a story in a creative written class back in collage where the main hero and his team went on an adventure. Along the way the cast developed to where it was more girls than guys and by the end all the girls where in love with the hero. Thing is I didn't really intend to do that setting out and it was just the natural progression the story took.
Im not gonna lie and say it was an especially well written story as I was in my early 20s and frankly pretty shit at it all but the point is I at least TRIED to give the characters something more to them than LOVES THE MC BECAUSE BECAUSE. They liked him because of shared experiences or because they had similar traits.
In bad harem you'll have at least HALF the girls fall in love with the guy for no reason beyond he's kind of nice and have no real role in the story beyond that resulting in them just eating up page time and stealing attention from actual developing characters
>>142092527
he does.
>>142091534
>streaming
>>142091727
>tfw
>>142092328
This fucking has to be a troll.
>>142092328
Are you trying to tell me anime is not already mainstream entertainment. It might not be in certain hillbilly states in the US yet but in asian countries like Korea, and Japan the majority of teens - middle aged watch anime and manga especially out in public like subways and buses. And you're a fucking idiot if you're trying to look sophisticated watching anime and caring about what others watch
>>142092490It wasn't even 'so bad it's good', so you didn't even miss out on some unintentional comedy or anything.
>>142092203
That's the average newfag on /a/.
And yes, they're polluting this thread right now.
>>142092529
Not him, but that logic is silly even if you ignore .hack. Having a premise that hasn't been exactly replicated before doesn't make it particularly innovative - it basically boiled down to mediocre fantasy action, and that was clear from the start.
>>142092442
Being a Literal Faggot
>>142091534
harem mc´s is always a betacuck. and even if he is alpha he never fucks any girl. and they never have an harem end.
>>142092495
Slice of life I don't expect to have an overarching plot.
>>142092694
Why not have the same expectations for harems?
>>142092694
Then why expect it from harems?
>>142092538
Its almost like they made the characters simple on purpose to pander to some kind of fantasy of some average guy having a bunch of talented, interesting, and beautiful girls interested in him while he does awesome things because he's born with it/suffered a tragic past/trained all his life/is just nice.
>>142092597
Almost as bad as complaining about newfags.
>>142092495
What is working? And the ending was great it finished out the only relationship I actually cared about it. Man working was great. Working was great. Was great.
>>142092739
>Almost as bad as complaining about newfags.
Fuck off to arr animu.
>>142092611
Most innovation can usually be boiled down to the synergy of two other known ideas. SAO could have been a great 2-cour series about the struggles a group of people face while trapped in a VRMMORPG-death-game: it could have explored the psychological and social ramifications of needing to level faster than player killers, on the one hand, and not overextending and dying, on the other. It had a lot of promise, and for a little while (i.e. an episode or 2), actually looked like it was possibly even going to meet those expectations.
It was when the premise and setting were simultaneously ditched that the author lazily decided to turn it into every battle harem ever.
>>142092739
I get the WHY of it all just fine. Im just saying even if your goal is to create a harem anime it's not hard to come up with valid and proper characters.
I mean I know it's easier to go for the quick sale but you'd think more people would want to make their harem stand out more but look at how often with have
X is the only boy at all girl school Y where he learns how to use his power
>>142092694
That's just double standards.
>>142091680
Dat everything
Asterisk War gets more hate than it should. I hate digibro so much
>>142092828
Okay, but it was clear it wasn't doing that stuff long before it turned into a battle harem.
>>142092311
>dem fuckin titties tho
>dat fuckin stomach tho
>dose fuckin hips tho
>fuckin everything
>>142092842
Yeah because dxd is the only harem in the world faggot
>>142092828
Almost every premise could technically be useful for exploring X, Y, and Z themes, anon. You have no reason to expect that it will most of the time, though, and the harem is certainly not to blame when it doesn't do that.
>>142092902
Sure. It was a mediocre series, which then jumped off a cliff after the first cour when it turned into a battle harem.
>>142092881
>Asterisk War gets more hate than it should.
It at least deserves plenty of hate. It's an incredibly lazy and inconsistent battle harem which was inexplicably popular. I tuned out after the first episode when MC casually leapt through an explosion. I thought I was watching a battle, but it was just a lights show. Well okay then.
>>142092881
What the fuck is digibro?
>>142092842
>I get the WHY of it all just fine. Im just saying even if your goal is to create a harem anime it's not hard to come up with valid and proper characters.
Because no one cares. You're basically assuming that they want "valid and proper characters" and just don't do it for some mysterious reason. Believe it or not, a lot of people enjoy the basic archetypes. That's why they became archetypes and continue to see use.
>>142091534
>What is so bad about harem? Why do so many people act like they're offended by fanservice in anime?
You want to know why people don't like harem anime? You mean people don't like watching a bunch of bland cookie cutter girls who exist to check off boxes on a list of otaku fetishes and who love the MC for no other reason then he's a bland self insert for beta virgin otaku? I have no idea why anyone would find this tedious.
Listen, having a bunch of female characters who simply bicker about who gets to ride the dick, while making bland confused milktoast passes at a dense as tungsten MC while the MC mysteriously misses key words in conversations which could clear up the haze he exists under is the very definition of tedium.
Don't get me wrong. Sometimes a harem anime can be entertaining as all fuck (colorwars, bento). But mostly it's shit. and IS is mostly to blame for the whole genre, and while it's generally better then most of the genre, it's still pure trash.
>>142091680
Or pic related.
>>142093025
>bunch of bland cookie cutter girls who exist to check off boxes on a list of otaku fetishes
That's almost every anime in the list bruh. You could also put Cowboy Bebop in there and it ticks off a few otaku fetishes in a checklist.
>>142092928
I didn't say anything about DxD or any one show in particular
>>142092999
The fact that you're right is what makes me the most upset. The problem with that though though is archetypes aren't characters. Shallow Imitators aren't and never will be the character they're imitating.
>>142093025
>You want to know why people don't like harem anime? You mean people don't like watching a bunch of bland cookie cutter girls who exist to check off boxes on a list of otaku fetishes and who love the MC for no other reason then he's a bland self insert for beta virgin otaku? I have no idea why anyone would find this tedious.
I don't, either, considering that almost everyone on /a/ IS a beta virgin and would be considered an otaku in Japan.
If you're a harem and you don't have a harem end then you can basically fuck off.
Also, battle harems are the worst kind of harem.
I watch harem anime every season, but they're almost always terrible. usually because the main character is a homo who acts like he's alergic to pussy, or because it forgets it's a harem show after 5 episodes and turns into retarded powerlevels shit.
>>142093027
Sauce? VLC snap tells me nothing and google is as helpful as usual
>>142093128
>You gotta mine the good ones, like pic related. >>142091680
>>142093128
You guys are all watching the wrong harems. Start with aesthetic of a rogue hero and go from there.
>>142093098
>The fact that you're right is what makes me the most upset. The problem with that though though is archetypes aren't characters. Shallow Imitators aren't and never will be the character they're imitating
I frankly see nothing wrong with it. Shallow imitations of good things are usually palatable enough. I don't need in-depth development or relatable psychological issues or anything to enjoy watching a character - I liked Shana because she was cute and endearing even when angry, I'll like a Shana clone for the same reasons.. Obviously I watch other things, or I'd probably get overdosed, but it doesn't bother me at all if I watch one show a season like that.
Harems are like the least offensive shows out there.
>>142092990
>which was inexplicably popular
At what point?
>>142093180
But that was probably one of the bottom ten harems of the decade. The guy was just an asshole and the story and animation were still shit.
>>142091534
because harems are like sports contests where everyone gets a medal for showing up. Look lets be honest here some girls are shit and they deserve to lose. Having them get a "congrats you were there" award is just stupid.
Now i enjoy to love ru for the antics but i hope it does not end harem as 1/3 the girls are shit and the other 1/3 are meh. He only has about 2-3 legit choices if you include mikan.
>>142093186
This. I really don't need another forced time travel plot
>>142093134Apartment.
>>142092725
Because I want comfy.
>>142091727
>But, in reality, there is nothing but chemicals and dopamine
Why do people even say this? Literally everything that isn't energy is made of chemicals and molecules and atoms.
>>142093211
One of the most refreshingly done harems with the most badass mc yeah
>>142093231
That can apply to both genre though.
>>142093190
It offends the demographic who choose to be offended by the shallowest things ever: intelligence and sensibilities. Plus points for maturity.
They're like SJW who want to be offended because their normal lives are too inoffensive.
>>142091534
It's more like people get offended by terrible writting and cheap fanservice. Eyecandy can be made in tasteful, alluring, well-made manner but haremshit usually goes just two steps above the lowest most vulgar ways of presenting an attractive female. The fact characters are hollow most of the time doesn't help.
I've read hentai with better writting than most harem anime.
>>142093215
FUCK OFF TO LOVE RU ALREADY AND JUST WATCH URUSEI YATSURA
I just want silly romcom harems back again. I hate how IS just had to bring the trashy academy battle harems into the mix.
Give me back the cohabitation, give me back the obligatory VN adaptation, give me back the shows where the harem antics/comedy take precedent over anything else, fucking hell I'd even take it if you gave me something trashy like OniAi again.
>>142093264
Aesthetica is a "refreshingly done harem" the same way AgK is a refreshingly done shounen. They ignore certain disliked conventions and turn out so shitt that you're reminded why those conventions are in place to begin with.
>>142091534
Battle harems are irredeemable garbage, but regular school life harems can be good.
>>142093351
>haremshit usually goes just two steps above the lowest most vulgar ways of presenting an attractive female.
Because an attractive female irl is someone with brains, right? Nah son you're tricking yourself. The most beautiful ones are the brainless shits you see in haremshit because one booty call and they're there without any trace of suspicion in their heads that maybe it's a trick and you brought your friends along.
>>142093134
Because I loved the show and want more to appreciate it, I'll bite the bullet. It's rokujouma no shinryakusha.Sanae best girl
>>142093366
Are you that one autist who makes angry as fuck threads about this and refuses to accept that no one cares?
>>142093186
>I liked Shana because she was cute and endearing even when angry, I'll like a Shana clone for the same reasons..
yes but ideally the second character should have her own traits and story otherwise there's no reason to just not watch Shana again.
>>142093424
We also need harem shows that have crazy as fuck premises again.
Can we change to a more relevant question:
Is harem anime always better with a harem end? Extra points if there is a credible reason for it, and double extra points if the girls share MC at the same time without giving a fuck.
>>142093500
I have no idea what you are talking about but its a well known fact that TLR is just a blatent copy paste of Urusei Yatsura
>>142091889
>Implying
Granted the harem aspects are so far in the background it barely counts.
>>142093531
I invested way too much time into nisekoi for it to have a harem ending
>>142093586
>you'll never be raised into a husbando by a zashiki warashi
>>142093477
This, this, a million times this.
Battle harems are the worst sub-genre in the current anime industry. There is no other type of show that has less creativity and effort put into it. A solid 90+% of them are completely forgettable and irredeemably shit. And the worst part is that they get released all the time.
>>142093600
You're lying to yourself if you say best girl hasn't already won
>Is harem anime always better with a harem end?
Well I don't necessarily think you do need a definitive end or winner but you need to at least make it look like the other girls have a chance.
to use IS as an example you can like which girl you want the best but you know you're lying if you tell yourself that anyone not named Houki is winning this thing.
That particular harem is just a crappy low moving romance series between two idiots that's only made slower by the other girls popping up just long enough to cock block and then move along.
>>142093560
Some guy was getting pissed about it a while back and kept making threads.
Anyway, people read plenty of stuff that's a copy-paste of other things, not to mention that Darkness has been going for ages now and is much more ecchi than UY ever was.
>>142093531
>Is harem anime always better with a harem end?
Not really. I could give you harem anime/manga that ended with only one girl and it's satisfactory.
But indeed, I'd like a harem setting more if all the girls ended with the guy.
>>142093663
sorry self deleted because of some nasty alcohol and cough syrup induced typos
>>142093493
>Because an attractive female irl is someone with brains, right? Nah son you're tricking yourself.
Oh, no, no, no. I'm not comparing it to 3DPD. I'm comparing it with actuall well written female characters that are alluring and attractive for both looks and personality (and i mean actual character not just a pile of cliches and catchphrases).
There's a world of difference between a beutiful lady having her assets slowly revealed just with the right amount of teasing and expectation and a cowtittied stereotype having beta MC landing on her boobs because "comedy".
>>142093671
Besides the fact that the plot for the pilot TLR is exactly the same as UY's
>>142093690
Sometimes a harem end just doesn't make sense and would feel forced. This is true for any normal high school harem.
But for this bunch of magical battle harems and fantasy lands, all that I've seen wold be better with a harem end.That's just my taste though
>>142093259
Permavirgins who will never touch a woman trying to feel superior about their crippling flaws that no partner will ever love.
>>142091534
I watch every season's harems but I didn't watch Hundred this season just because I was rolling my eyes at the cliches every 5 seconds
Asterisk is quite good though.
>>142092881
So Asterisk is a harem today?
>>142093734
>I'm comparing it with actuall well written female characters that are alluring and attractive for both looks and personality (and i mean actual character not just a pile of cliches and catchphrases).
You mean Mary Sues? Because a lot of those alluring and attractive female characters in both looks and personality are super clean experienced virgins that are skilled with everything they put their hands on. They're also independent womyn who don't need no man.
Basically the American female archetype in media.
>>142091967
Exactly what I was thinking after finishing Chaos;head and Date a Live
>>142093763
>besides
What? I never said anything that would even lead into that. Yes, the premise is UY's. I don't give a shit, though - the creative work that went into the series is a matter of process, not product, and has no effect on my enjoyment. I'm not going to fucking reread a tame romcom instead of continuing to read an ecchi romcom just because the latter stole the former's premise.
>>142093560
Did you read like one chapter of the manga? They don't have that much in common outside of part of the premise.
>>142093822
Asterisk right now doesn't even qualify as a harem
>>142093834
>American female archetype
>virgin
>>142093798
If I had many problems with cliches, I would be unable to watch anime of any genre. Especially slice of life and school series.
>>142093531
They probably are but we have to realize here that harem ends are a consequence of writers exploring their characters better and not just making it a horrible slow burn romance for one girl where everybody else is bogging down her inevitable win. But there are still harems that end with one winner that are good; but these are mostly mundane highschool settings where it's almost impossible to justify the harem end unless the show was inherently silly in the first place.
Going back to the question though, yes more than half of the time they're possibly better as opposed to one girl winning or god forbid open-ended shit.
Can you gays posting this thread hating on Battle Harems please compare it to your favorite genre so we can understand all the points you're making and actually explain why instead of
>its bad
>haremshits
>harems makes me feel like a child
>>142093862
Well only 1 quality doesn't match, still basically the archetype.
>>142093193
Its first season was about as popular as Re:Zero is right now. The only reason people would confuse it for being unpopular is that it had the misfortune of airing the same season as One Man Punch and Noragami Aragoto
>>142093531
No. My puritanical values are ingrained too deeply, a harem end always nags at me.
>>142093871
True, but seriously, you can only hear "I'm a typical 2nd year student at mahic high school" so many times. And the fall on tits cliche, and the find girl naked cliche, those are 100x times more annoying than something like a tsukkomi character or an "EEEEEEHHHH!?".
I don't mind fanservice as long as the show doesn't go out of its way too much to show it, but if it's just dumb it makes me roll my eyes.
>>142093882
well no see in the case of a battle harem open ending is probably best because the story should resolve around stopping the bad guy, carrying out the quest or completing an objective of some kind and very rarely will that involve a specific girl winning
>>142093919
>Its first season was about as popular as Re:Zero is right now
Ha ha, no. It couldn't even max out one thread without Stellafag shitposting it. Re:Zero is also set to sell at least twice as much as Asterisk did.
>>142093919
>Its first season was about as popular as Re:Zero is right now
Source?
Re:Zero is super fucking popular, and harems tend to be pretty niche shows. Just look at vies on anime streaming sites, reddit and MAL. /a/ is a special place.
>>142093912
>please compare it to your favorite genre
What's the point of comparing genres in that fashion? Different genres are enjoyable for different reasons and can be ruined in different ways.
>>142093940
I can say the same thing about cliches in any anime, really. Especially with how samey Japanese gag comedy is and how slice of life characters and settings are set up. It's all the same shit in any genre. Fanservice just somehow offends you much more than anything else, like as if you were some kind of normalfag or prancing homo.
>>142093919
It was not.
>Noragami Aragoto
Literally what? I barely saw anyone talking about that. You should have said Osomatsu or GochiUsa or something.
>>142093793
>My waifus are superior to your waifus because they're ugly deep inside from a trauma they suffered from when they're children!. It's totally not a recipe for disaster in a relationship! If this were real life, they would be realistic and I would love them for all they were instead of your blonde bimbos from haremshit shows!
Exactly.
>>142093834
>Not a cookie cutter haremshit stereotype
>I-Its a Mary Sue!
Apparently anything better than cheap hollow girls qualifies as a Mary Sue for you. There are lots of cute or attractive characters in anime that are better than haremshit as well. Also there's nothing wrong with relying on a guy but harem girls want to ride all the same dick and to make that kind if plot plausible or even entertaining a lot if skill is needed. Skill most haremshit writters lack.
Lum is a selfish sexy girl madly in love with an enormous jerk and somehow manages to be a compelling, versatile and well developed character.
As another anon says. Harem can be done well but almost all modern harem writters are lazy faggots.
>>142093981
That just sounds like a cop-out, implying that you yourself know that your complaints will fall apart once you mention what you like. If you are confident in your opinion, you should be able to answer his question without any problem.
>>142093981
I never understood why she has the condoms, she was a virgin at the time right? It's not like she carries them around with her just in case, they are in a fucking box in her house, what is their purpose?
>>142093944
But battle harems, especially the IS-esque kind, are the worst kind of harems anyway so that pretty much proves my point.
Go take a look at Omamori Himari, shit like Sekirei, or even >>142091680 if we want something of the LN variety. People are too focused on separating the harem from the battles when they just need to marry the two in at least a bearably decent fashion at the very least.
>>142093960
>>142093978
I'm just going by number of 'members' on MAL, which is of course only a vague estimate.
>Asterisk (season one): 127,109
>Re:Zero: 122,080
I hope Re:Zero greatly outsells Asterisk War because it bloody well deserves to.
>>142093981
Then what is particulary so bad about harems specifically battle harems that makes it worse than all other genres
>>142093940
>those are 100x times more annoying than something like a tsukkomi character or an "EEEEEEHHHH!?".
But you can only find fall on tits and naked girl cliches on harems. Tsukkomis and eeeeehhhhhhhs can be found on practically every anime.
"Stop being a homo." - Hilary Clinton, Donald Trump, Bernie Sanders, 2016
>>142094020
Out of curiosity, do you only watch entry level series and/or only the anime adaptations?
>>142093912
Battle harems suck because they are extremely formulaic and the market is over-saturated with them.
And yes this applies to a lot of anime but it's especially true with battle harems.
That's not even getting into the extreme lack of substance behind the characters, they're walking archetypes that serve no person other than to fuel otaku fantasies, the girls are all beautiful and come in varied shapes, colors and sizes and they all inexplicably lust after the bland boring male self insert.
Also they're almost all blatant advertisements for the poorly written LNs so they don't hardly ever actually have a solid storyline or conclusion because the LNs are ongoing.
Battle harems basically represent all the worst things about the modern anime industry packaged in one show that's made three times a season.
>Harem done right
D-frag
Baka to test
Twintails
Rokujoma
GJ-bu
>Harem done wrong
any IS clone
Nisekoi
oreImo
>>142091727
It's called a simulacra.
Also try leaving your bedroom for a change.
It's time /a/. Time to think of all the anime/manga/LN you've seen that have ended or are heading towards a harem end.
>>142094069
>That's not even getting into the extreme lack of substance behind the characters, they're walking archetypes that serve no person other than to fuel otaku fantasies, the girls are all beautiful and come in varied shapes, colors and sizes and they all inexplicably lust after the bland boring male self insert.
There's nothing wrong with this, honestly. I like having my fantasies fulfilled, fuck you.
>>142094079
Twintails was fucking shit, I still don't get the buzz.
>>142093944
If there's a real plot developing, yes it is independent of the girls (sometimes). This kind of story lends itself to a more serious approach, like everyone respects each other very deeply at the end. So you really need a plot reason to justify a harem end here.
>>142093999
I personally don't enjoy SoL specifically because how samey it all is. Gag comedy is ok for me, since it actually makes me laugh. Fanservice doesn't offend me at all, I enjoy ecchi stuff a lot. I just dislike when it is not done correctly.
>>142094020
I'm just not as invested in mentally broken freckled nerds you call developed characters as I am with my beautiful brainless bimbos I can one-night stand with and leave without any repercussions.
>>142094069
I find that your argument applies much more closely to slice of life anime than to battle harems. Just replace " blatant advertisements for the poorly written LNs" with " blatant advertisements for the poorly written manga/mobage, idol CDs, and character goods."
>>142093981
this is making me so mad like this has to be shitpost bait for how hypocritical you're being
>>142094136
I agree, but that doesn't make it any better. Although you'll find many SoLfags on /a/ shitting on Haremfags while we're all eating from the same shit pile.
>>142094112
>There's nothing wrong with this, honestly. I like having my fantasies fulfilled, fuck you.
There's nothing wrong with liking shit, anon.
>>142094136
Any other genre has the potential to be good, but battle harems are shit by design.
>>142093999
Or maybe is just the results of haremshits being in production line in recent years. True, we have bad anime in all genres but Haremshit is the most notorious because is so overused we can smell the feces from Ep. 1 (sometimes even from the PV's). Of all the genres in anime the two i feel now less unique are shonen and harem because both are burned to the ground. I used to watch a lot of both but they had lost its shine long ago.
>>142094182
If I like it, it's not shit.
>>142091534
Why would harems make people mad? They've been here nearly forever, they're largely unassuming, and unless you actively search for them they won't really infringe on anybody's 'mature' sensibilities.
>>142094112
Twintails was parodying (satirizing?) sentai, and was full of qt girls and bro villains. Character design was also elder god tier.
What's not to like?
>>142094184
I can say that about any genre of any medium. But I'm not a closedminded ultrafaggot, so I don't.
>>142094244
Remember all the hate Phantom World got for supposedly being a harem, even though it wasn't one in practice.
>>142094135
Sounds like you're admitting you like shit but are okay with it which is an entiry different matter. I'm not someone to tell you what to enjoy. So keep watching your garbage with pride.
>>142094196
There's been more slice of life cute girls doing cute things than harems for years now. In this season alone there's 4-5 and next season promises to have as many or even more.
I should say at this point that I love both genre, but I'm going to call out bullshit as I see it.
>>142091534
Because it's too tame for fapping and too shit to watch for anything else
What harems are similar to Rokujouma or Korean Zombie?
>>142094300
Similar as in..?
>>142094136
The key difference between SoLs and battle harems is that battle harems have an actual plot, there is fighting, there is a villain, there is action and that hardly ever goes anywhere. Same with the romance.
The nothing that happens is SoL is much more acceptable because it's always nothing, you know there's no major plot points or intense romance or anything to get that invested into besides the comfy.
>>142094323
Comfy family cohabitation with a dash of fantasy.
>>142094244
Scroll up and see how many posts there are that start bashing harems by saying its the worst genre but they refuse to back that statement up with anything else but
>battle harems are shit because I said so
>haremshits
>>142094355
Omamori probs
MC gets laid too
>>142094036
A cop-out? Let me explain it this way then:
Pic related is my favourite series. I love the way it uses symbolism so boldly. I love the way it provides seemingly endless launching pads for introspective and philosophical thought. I love the way it managed to predict so many aspect of the future of technology with such accuracy. I love how it has so many details which you'll only notice on the second, third, or even fourth time watching it.
Having said all of that, I would never expect a battle harem to be enjoyable for any of those reasons, because that's not what battle harems try to do. A battle harem could feasibly be a multifaceted psychological work, but realistically they never are and never try to be. I don't look for those things I listed above in comedy, or in SOL, or in battle harems, because I watch those genres for different reasons.
>>142094044
I think you're asking a bit too much of WtK if you're expecting it to make sense.
>>142094059
>Then what is particulary so bad about harems specifically battle harems that makes it worse than all other genres
I don't think genres are necessarily 'better' or 'worse' than other genres. Battle harems far too often suffer from incredibly lazy and inconsistent character design. The main character is often a blank-faced bored looking Gary Stu, and every other character (who isn't an enemy) is a girl who's in love with him (just because), and they'll 90% of the time fit neatly into some archetype or another (take one of childhood friend, imouto, nee, class pres, bookworm, then add to one of tsundere, kuudere, yandere, etc. etc. you get the idea). It's like more effort is put into their appearance than their actual character development.
>>142094355
>Comfy family cohabitation with a dash of fantasy.
Have you tried Dokoida? It's about various silly super heroes and villains sharing an housing complex without realizing each others identities.
It's the anime where the gif of the lady breaking chopsticks in her cleavage comes from
>>142094379
so many aspects*
>>142094145
No need to be mad any longer, I answered here: >>142094379
>>142094355
>harems where it feels more like a family and the girls respect each other instead of being jelly bitches vying for the bowl
Max chill.
>>142094343
>The key difference between SoLs and battle harems is that battle harems have an actual plot, there is fighting, there is a villain, there is action and that hardly ever goes anywhere.
I have the same problem with battle harems. Some have interesting lird or cool ideas for worldbuilding that get nowhere because its ultimately just a distraction to give an exotic scenario for the harem. Or the opposite, i get hooked to know where a relationship will go but i'll be eternally cockblocked not only by the other girls but also by the plot that i already know its just a hollow excuse so its both distracting and irritating.
Battle Harems frequently fail both at being action shows and romantic comedies. Because the dynamics keep interrupting each other.
>>142091534
Harem itself is fine, but usually the MC is where the entire thing dissolves. Half the time the MC is a whimpy coward that gets embarrassed at the first glimpse of a nipple. He has no redeeming characteristics besides the cliche'd "He's nice" and you wonder why most of the girls lust after him when he wants nothing to do with them. Their is hardly never any development for the characters either, besides a event here and there that is shortly forgotten and reverts back to the same devices they had before.
>>142094379
I watch anime in general for fun while also enjoying stuff like Lain. But if I want something thought-provoking, I'll almost always just read a novel or watch an actual film instead of seeking that out in anime. But we seem to be more or less on the same page overall.
>>142094458
TO THE LAST PAGE
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>>142094529
>Half the time the MC is a whimpy coward that gets embarrassed at the first glimpse of a nipple.
The other half he's an "alpha" muscular douche making girls wet by treating them like dirt or property. Going out of his way to prove how manly he is.
Wonder how many smart, reasonable guys exist as harem MC's. In recent years i can only think of Tatsuya. And that's sad.
The hero the harem genre deserves.
>>142094247
Twintails is more of a love letter / homage to sentai (even to the point that the Veteran VAs did the villains) instead of the "plot of a monster of the week", it's "fetish of the featured Gildy".
>>142094616
Arguably Yuuji. He can be a bit of a dick and occasionally tease his girls sometimes, but he's generally quite level-headed.
>>142094634
I'd like to say Seitokai no Ichizon, but I don't think that's right. Which one is that?
>>142094652
It is.
>>142094665
Well shit. I don't recognize that girl, and I could have sworn I knew everyone in the series.
So what now? After Asterisk fails, that pretty much might be the nail in the coffin for IS-esque harem shows. Thank god it finally appened but it still took Japan way too long to end it.
What's next? Isekaishit and lewd shows a la DxD/Shinmai?
Or do we go back to the glory days and have incredibly silly romcom shit again reminiscent of Seto no Hanayome and the like? Or will people latch on to Yahari/Saekano where the story will inevitably go down the shitter once the drama starts?
>>142094688
That's the childhood friend that only appears in like 2 episodes.
I just rewatched it like 5 days ago.
>>142094692
Saekano S2 is coming. Asterisk isn't really IS-esque though.
>>142094692
The isekai wave is coming. Especially after Konosuba's success.
Now that you guys mention it, what was the last 'normal' harem again? Shomin Sample?
>MC has a girl he likes
>New girls comes in and forces him to start developing feelings for her
>Girl MC liked now is going after mc, to create some drama
>More and more girls are thrown in to extend the life of the series
>>142094692
My gut tells me yuri idol shows will continue to grow and more popular harem-based mobage will be adapted with the MC removed. As a haremfag, this bugs me to no end.
>>142094692
Hopefully a comeback of fantasy settings and OP characters.
>>142094616
Basara from Shinmai is a harem MC done right.
>>142091534
Keel calm people.
Slowly in the near future,the isekai harems will be replacing battle harems and so will begin the golden age of animu industry.
>>142094721
Nah. You can pretty much see how Aniplex tried to pour a lot of resources into Asterisk hoping it would emulate the success IS had. There are also parallels specifically imitated in hopes of capturing that same feel.
>>142094739
>The isekai wave is coming
>coming
It's been in full swing for many seasons now. If anything, it's already beginning to feel overused as a setting/premise. I expect that studios will more or less stop adapting isekai stories before the end of this year.
>>142094771
There are far better harem MCs.
>>142094744
For manga I blame weekly serialization model.
>>142094786
>Aniplex tried to pour a lot of resources into Asterisk
why did it look so shit then
Nothing is wrong with having a harem, sadly the worse the harem is the more successful the franchise becomes.
>>142094797
After Youjou Senki probably way more isekai series will get adaption. I honestly can't see it stopping anytime soon. Especially when shitton of series are still getting adapted to LN's from narou even now.
>>142094786
The series themselves are very different. IS has many more main girls and is more focused on the standard arc for each girl story, whereas asterisk has been nothing but plot.
>>142094743
Pretty much.
>>142094634
If that girl falls into his harem she'll be an official cheap slut.
So has Asterisk gotten any good this second cour? And fucking please autists, just answer it quick and don't bring in literally who boogeymen those threads are seeming filled to brim with.
Take note that I was bored to death when the tournament started in the first cour.
>>142091727
That sounds like Plato explanation on idea and image, but dumbed down to explain shitty taste in anime
>>142094844
Honestly, if I was an exec in a studio, I'd be getting ready to make more generic battle harems, knowing that every other studio is latching on to isekai works. If it flips, then the generic battle harem could ironically be the cool show which stands out that season.
>>142094879
Considering it's still the same tournament from S1 you would probably be bored.
>>142094753
>Even the author of R+V regretted the last battle arc
>Left the ending opened just in case they wanted to return
>>142094875
She does, and also, she was his first girlfriend.
>>142094879
Still the same hot garbage.
But here's a bone for you: Watch the episode Sylvia appears in and the episode TNK animates.
That's about it.
>>142094879
It got worse.
>main heroine can fly
>she doesn't fly
>>142094925
>>142094903
Good to know.
>>142094918
As said, cheap slut.
>>142094692
Saekano improved when the drama started.
>The ending for Omamori Himari
That's how you end a harem manga.
>>142094879
I normally love harems, but I've been fucking bored with Asterisk. Just the same tournament and stuff with side characters I don't care about, with barely any development or even screentime for the girls.
>>142094912
No wonder, the battle against Alucard was a mess. But the ending HEAVILY implies the MC is now an OP vampire that can basically pick his harem. Even Moka's father had a harem himself. Not so open-ended.
>Yomeiro Choice anime never
>new series by tenkla never
>scans of her lewd elf series never;_;
More shows should just do a 'Yosuga no Sora' or 'Amagami' and omnibus it if they want to depict multiple romances involving the protagonist. It's way better than having the MC casually cheating on girls and them sort of idly forgetting about it.
>>142091534
The biggest problem is that 78% of the time ret/a/rds label anything with more than one girl as a harem, even if only one of them is interested in MC.
When it's actually a harem however ret/a/rds expect stupid shit like 'my seasonal waifu winning' as though they don't understand what a harem is.
After mere seconds of research, I have figured out the recipe for a good harem series.
IN ORDER
>Create an Interesting plot idea you want to do
>Design and give personality to the MC FIRST
>Create a goal for the MC to achieve at the end
>Focus the show around the MC
>Introduce female characters without bringing them into harem
>Have SOME(not all) females gradually fall in love with MC
>MC accomplishes goals at the end
>THEN he chooses
>>142091727
Then why the fuck stoop yourself as low enough to watch average harem for the romance?
There's a ton of other better romance related anime and manga that isn't your average harem anime.
>>142095107
>>THEN he chooses
A harem end, I presume?
>>142091534
I'm growing increasingly irritated by a complete inability to reach a result - any result at all - when it's a large part of the point to it. There are decent harems out there, usually ones that focus on a smaller number of girls, but the majority just want to keep the ball rolling and not actually have anyone progress.
My biggest issue of late is the near-porn harems that just run into increasingly contrived reasons to not have actual sex because the publisher disallows it. Highschool DxD, Campione, and Shinmai Maou are all huge offenders of this issue, though there are others. It's particularly ridiculous in that they generally contain content that any person with moral issues would probably consider worse than vanilla sex. I really would prefer that if publishers/writers cannot handle even a reference to sex offscreen they would not write themselves into a corner on it.
>>142095107
>>Focus the show around the MC
Fuck no, that's how you kill it.
>>142092495
Because in harem, there's a clear goal at the end. Anything goes in SoL, it's to be expected.
>>142095142
Seriously, there's really no logical reason Issei shouldn't be balls deep in any of the girls. Xeno's literally telling him to fuck her on the spot.
>>142095142
Are you retarded Harem isn't supposed to be hentai
>>142095107
You for got a step or three.
>Develop the female characters' relationship with the MC
>Develop the female character's relationship with each other
>Develop mutual respect between all the harem members and the MC
>>142091534
I don't hate fan-service, I just hate fan-service paired up with too much of a shit story and not enough of best girl.
>>142095107
>Create an Interesting plot idea you want to do
Fucked it up on the first line.
Harems shouldn't have a plot outside of the conflicting love interests - the drama around the MC being unable to choose is enough of a plot in and of itself and keeping that as the primary focus forces you to actually develop the characters.
If there's some extra goal the MC is pursuing as the main focus of the plot then the writer will inevitably forget about developing the heroines and they'll wind up falling in love with MC for no reason.
>>142094901
Oh yea we might get to see that kind of thing actually happening if they really start adapting all the Isekai stuff.
So far if we are counting only the works from narou, its just:
>Konosuba
>Re:Zero
>Overlord
>Yojou
So not much really.
>>142094844
While that might be true for LN's it might be different for anime. But who knows, I also doubt it will just stop though, there's definitely a high chance that more are coming.
>>142092348
Sounds like every sports fan.
>>142095142
Campione was good
>>142095224
This.
![High School DxD 13 [BD Hi10P 1920x1080 H264 FLAC] [1E65F8E4].mkv_snapshot_16.23_[2013.12.21_03.53.22].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/vYU3Idm.jpg "High School DxD 13 [BD Hi10P 1920x1080 H264 FLAC] [1E65F8E4].mkv_snapshot_16.23_[2013.12.21_03.53.22].jpg")
>>142095207
Are you? That's the entire point he's making. Show's like DxD have turned up the sexy bits so much there's no reason they shouldn't be having sex. Several characters made it explicit that they want to have sex with him and don't mind sharing.
>>142095142
>My biggest issue of late is the near-porn harems that just run into increasingly contrived reasons to not have actual sex because the publisher disallows it.
The worst part is that the closer and more often they get to having sex without going all the way, the more retarded it looks.
>>142095251
you're just being overweight if fanservice in anime is bothering you
>>142095318
>you're just being overweight
We need to shake up the harem formula, /a/.
Any suggestions?
>>142095381
Just bring back absurd comedy harems again.
>>142095360
Overdramatic*
Sorry autocorrect
>>142095381
School Days already did that perfectly well.
>Any suggestions?
Hmm...
MC is already with girl A and finds himself continually having to reject the advances of girls B C D E and F who just won't give up on him regardless.
>>142095381
Everyone MC doesn't choose is going to die.
>>142095381
LOLI MC
LOLI HAREM
>>142095442
That's a bit dark but an interesting spin
>>142095381
Valkyrie drive but with lesbian harem wars or just give rance an animated series already
>>142095381
A harem made up of female versions of MC from different universes, them all knowing exactly what MC wants
>>142095495
Valkyrie Drive but with no lipstick
>>142095381
Once MC chooses a girl and declares his love for her, a film crew suddenly arrives and a presenter congratulates her with a massive cheque. MC discovers that almost none of the girls even liked him but they were all secretly competing in a game show to see who would get the MC to declare his love for them first.
>>142095442
>he wouldn't be able to work out if any of them even liked him
>>142095381
MC is a silly pseudo-intellectual atheist forced to become a producer for an idol agency wherein every girl in his harem/idol unit is the anthropomorphic representation of a religion.
I call it CULTM@STER. Hinduism-chan best girl.
>>142095530
Oh my god.
>>142095530
Question.
Is Hindu-chan delicious brown or blue?
>>142094753
But that's what 99% of battle harems are already.
Fantasy settings and OP characters.
>>142095577
Whatever your dogmatic self believes in nigga. That's the best part.
>>142095530
Soundssacrilegious.
