>"Killing them won't bring their victims back."
How do you feel about this logic? Capital punishment doesn't right the wrong that was done.
>but it feels damn good
If you kill your enemies, they win.
It won't bring them back, but it'll help them pass into the beyond.
Some of the victims are probably hanging around in limbo waiting for the perpetrators to be killed so that their ghosts can finally move on.
You'd be doing your ghost family members a disservice by not killing the people who killed them.
>>79093976
Killing them stops them creating more victims.
>>79093976
Remember that part of the capital punishment law where it says to only use it if it brings the victims back?
Sending a person to jail, community service, a mental ward, etc. won't bring back the victims either.
They should lose the rights to live
Send em to the gulags, at least then they're useful to the country
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
>>79093976
>killing them prevents them from killing anyone else
>killing them saves us however many thousands of dollars it would take to keep them alive and guarded
How do you feel about this logic? Capital punishment isn't only concerned with righting the wrong that was done.
>>79093976
Because then it would be
>if I kill this guy I know I can be executed for it
Instead of
>I'll live life on the inside and have 3 square meals and a roof over my head
Hell look at fucking Anders Breivik and good he gets it. We never should have gotten rid of hanging. Fucking liberals
>>79094486
Then we'll kill in the dark.
>>79093976
Death penalty is barbaric but Murica is a barbaric nation, so I don't think you savages will abolish it anytime soon.
If you can kill once, you can kill again. Leaving them alive is a liability.
>>79094173
So does imprisoning them and removing them from society.
If you support the death penalty for logistics/efficiency reasons then that is a valid argument but do not pretend you are somehow morally superior to the man you are going to kill under the death penalty.
You are a murderer all the same.
>>79093976
Letting them live won't bring their victims back either.
It does give them the chance to add more bodies to the pile, though, and what the people that try to distract others with such superflorous arguments never actually say, is that they are desperately hoping for more murder, mayhem, and death at the hands of the people they defend.
It's not about bringing people back, or honoring a memory, it's about sending a message to the next asshole that wants to kill people. Kill people, get killed, that simple.
>>79093976
Punishment is about deterrence.
>>79094886
until they start writing books
>Someone murders someone
OMG SO EVIL HANG HIM HANG HIM!!! THIS MAN MUST BE REMOVED FROM OUR SOCIETY!!! (((JUSTICE)))!!! OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!!
>Someone murders someone with the permission of the state
omg what a hero
>>79093976
It brings justice to earth, fuck off cuckold logic
The purpose of punishment was never to resurrect dead people
>>79094886
Given all the appeals processes, the problems with getting drugs, etc it's generally cheaper to house someone for life than it is to put them on death row.
Also all that lethal injection shit is crap as hell, if you really want to kill someone for revenge (because let's face it that's what it is) you should make it quick and personal. Firing squad, guillotine, simple suffocation with carbon monoxide, etc
>>79093976
Slap em in the face and fuck em in the butt.
>savage
They sit in death row away from general pop prison mates for decades until finally they get a grand final feast and a priest then get a needle slipped into their vein where they go to sleep and their heart stops. That's barbaric?
Jesus Hans/Ahmed have you and your country really turned into a bunch of pussies? The wars really must have weeded out your toughest men and left the scrap behind to breed
>>79093976
Why pay taxes so someone who hates you gets paid a comfy life in prison?
Infallible logic. There is no incident in history, nor is there even a scientific theory, that states once a criminal is found guilty by a jury of their peers an sentenced to death, multiple appeals rejected, and an execution carried out, the ability to resurrect the dead has been bestowed on anyone.
>>79095021
You just killed a man who is a killer
Does that make you not a killer? Should you not too be killed?
The justice system is supposed to be about "justice" not revenge or deterring future criminals. One man's case is his case. It's about him, the defendant. You should not kill someone for the crimes of the next killer.
I could also make a strong argument that this "sending a message" punishment violates that man's 5th amendment rights
>>79095389
Yes it is barbaric
>>79093976
It's a warning, or should be.
Now where the death sentence takes ten years minimum and is done painlessly, it's almost laughable. If I were to commit a horrible crime and my options were life in prison without parole or the death sentence, I'd take the death sentence.
>>79095416
This post will go over the head of every bootlicker in this thread
>>79093976
>an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind
saw this on some liberals car as a bumper sticker
yeah it would make you blind if you constantly fuck up, newsflash, smart people wouldnt commit crimes if they faced harsh punishment
according to the braindead liberal, people will act the way they will act regardless of punishments
obviously this is untrue
Inherent in the social contract is that the government will exact the vengeance of the private citizen who remains civilized and allows the Law to act for him.
>>79095021
That sure has always worked
>>79093976
if only they could all be as hot as this one
>>79093976
So why punish anyone anyway, then? The deed is done and cannot be undone, be it murder, robbery, rape, assault, arson etc.
>>79093976
What's wrong with vengeance?
>>79095569
>>79094777
>>79095108
>HE'S A HUMAN BEAN, JUST LIKE US
>>79095389
Well if you think you're actually doing them good by killing them, why not ask them first if they prefer to die or spend the rest of their lives in prison? Also, US prisons are barbaric in general, thanks for reminding me you treat your criminals worse than animals, that will sure help them rehabilitate.
By having a death penalty, you have now officially given up your life and have sold it to the state in exchange for "justice" and "security".
What right does the STATE have to pick and choose whose lives are valid and which should be terminated? What right does a jury, a group of other humans, have to take another human life?
The crime we most often think of when it comes to the death penalty is murder.
By (((your))) logic, it is a valid punishment to take the life of a man who takes another's life. So you are saying that that man (murderer) does not have the right to take that man's life yet you are implying you (a judge/jury/state) have the right to take his life?
Hypocrisy.
>>79096007
Niggers and spics can't be rehabilitated regardless.
>>79094886
Motherfucker! Do you know how much a prison costs? We're on a budget, people! Bring back the firing squads!
>>79095993
>my understanding of justice is stuck in the middle ages
I sure hope you people never complain about subhuman niggers and arabs on this board because you're not better than them in any way.
"punishment" should entail trying to fix people so that they can live in/be part of regular society
if there is a small possibility for them to be fixed that that is what should be tried
if there is no possibility of them ever being part of society so is there no point in keeping them alive
>>79095807
>smart people wouldnt commit crimes if they faced harsh punishment
Your fallacy is that you believe all laws are just and all government's are pure of intention and will. I would suggest reading a history book to realize the flaws of your way of thinking.
it is a problem that niggers brag about having been in prison
>>79094886
Wrong. Eye for an eye. If you're willing to hurt another human, then all of your protective rights up until what you've done are nullified.
If you purposely murder someone then you deserve death in the same way you killed.
>>79096224
Fuck that, bullets cost money. Two 9mm rounds to the base of the skull will do the job.
>>79095993
It's very easy to justify taking a man's life when you willingly blind yourself and tell yourself he is not a man.
>>79096284
nice strawman
Also
>The death penalty now is exactly like the death penalty of the middle ages
wew
>>79093976
>but it feels damn good
Locking them up with just bread and water 'til they die feels better.
>>79096007
It's not about what is good for them. They committed a crime, had a fair trial, and was sentenced for their crime. Whether they are redeemable is decided by God but for our world we rid it of filth and trash and God can sort the rest.
Yes the prison system in America is fucked I am not denying this. You can thank the democrats making labor in prisons illegal.
A solution would be to stop sending people to prison for things like marijuana because once they are in prison they join gangs to survive and just commit more crimes.
Unlike Germany when migrants rape out women they are punished instead of rewarded. Guten abend meine Freunde.
>>79093976
So long as every time an innocent is executed and later exonerated the judge is tried for manslaughter.
In some cases death seems the better option. Look at ADX Florence. Imagine you're sentenced for life there.
There's literally nothing wrong with revenge. And someone who seeks out and murders innocents unprovoked doesn't deserve sympathy or life.
>>79093976
Yeah, but it'll be more cost-effective to have them beaten to death in prison by the Aryan Brotherhood.
>>79096406
>If you're willing to hurt another human, then all of your protective rights up until what you've done are nullified.
>If you purposely murder someone then you deserve death in the same way you killed.
What you really mean is that if you kill someone without the state sanctioning that killing then you should be killed because you apparently have no problem with state sanctioned killings.
Does the executioner deserve to die? Do soldiers deserve to die?
Why do you pick and choose who gets to live and die based off what makes you feel morally superior?
>>79094091
Epic meme XD
>>79096431
Fuck that, this will send a better message
>>79096515
Good thing that's not what happens in the vast majority of death penalty cases in the U.S
>>79096406
So if you rape someone, you'll get raped by a police guard and if you injure someone, you get injured the same way,? Man that sure sounds like a modern justice system
>>79093976
In general I don't believe in capital punishment because I don't think the state should be executing people, but fuck that little shit and his faggot brother.
>>79096661
I don't think your deity would be too happy about you desecrating and destroying the life that (((he))) created.
As far as I know, (((He))) doesn't abide by the American legal code.
>>79094556
Executions are actually more expensive.
>>79097008
You'll get raped in prison anyway no need for the police to do the dirty job
>>79094886
>murder 50 people
>lel, if you kill him, he wins
>put him in comfy prison for the rest of his life
I don't accept this.
The difference between executing a guilty man and an innocent man is that by committing an atrocity, he has forfeited his right to be treated like a human being.
That does not make those carrying out the justice all the same. It is not an atrocity to remove evil.
>>79096944
You're right. We can reuse the ropes too.
>>79096771
Who are you to say what he deserves?
>>79096284
>if you kill them, you're just like them
Except for the whole "living" part. So yeah, we'd be exactly like them aside from the only part that actually fucking matters.
>>79094212
It'll sure drain taxpayer money though
>>79097008
>Modern
>inherently superior
Eye for an eye is fine.
>>79096587
Where did I use a strawman exactly? "I hope you don't do this shit" is not a strawman
>>79096661
>Whether they are redeemable is decided by God
Oh fuck off
>>79096007
life isnt about just doing good. its about doing what has to be done.
>>79094206
We're here to criticize law, not to kiss its ass.
>>79097189
We're the only ones who get to decide what anyone deserves in this life.
Daily reminder that execution is literally the only punishment that is explicitely Constitutional.
>>79097189
Go back to r/SandalsForPresident
>>79097141
The state and human beings are not qualified to deem what is evil and what is not.
>he has forfeited his right to be treated like a human being.
Citation needed. Where in the Constitution can I find this quote?
Capital punishment comes down to economics. Is it cheaper to get the resources needed to kill the person (lethal injection, a table, leather straps, the facilities, executioners, etc.) or is it cheaper to just pay utilities and food for the rest of the criminal's life expectancy?
Forced labor camps are better alternatives desu.
>>79097276
eye for an eye is barbaric
>>79093976
>"Killing them won't bring their victims back."
Its a hell of a start, and a fuck ton cheaper. Get the revolver, reload the brass.
>>79097492
You can find in the Constitution where the death penalty is explicitely mentioned as a valid punishment if you ever bothered to read the fucking thing.
It's in there.
>>79096196
we literally hang people for having too much weed, not just for murder
>>79097568
I agree, tooth for a tooth is much more humane
>>79097141
>he has forfeited his right to be treated like a human being
This is not how human rights work.
>>79097323
not an argument
>>79097397
no, (((you))) don't get to decide shit and thank a dead kike on a stick for that. If anyone gave the braindead retards in this thread a seat on a federal circuit court we would all be fucked
>>79094886
Prisoners can still victimise other prisoners unless you keep them in solitary for their whole life which is more cruel than a quick death.
>>79097453
not an argument
>>79095807
>An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind
It would, but we aren't talking an eye for an eye. This is akin to putting down a rabid dog. The kid is fucked, and he doesn't deserve any basic human rights to life after what he did. Simple as that.
>>79097568
According to... what? Your ridiculous post-modern assumptions about justice?
>>79097773
Wrong
>>79094723
By your logic, executions should be as gruesome and public as possible because it'll supposedly prevent crime.
Of course, shining examples of this in action are Medieval Europe and Victorian England.
>>79093976
>unironically defending shoolshooters and terrorists
I need to build that wall to prevent your type coming here
>>79097098
No they aren't. Trails are more expensive.
>>79097774
What good does it do to society to get revenge that cannot be accomplished through imprisonment?
>>79093976
Killing them eases the financial burden on society. Bringing back victims shouldn't be the point (and I can't think of an instance where it ever was), since that's not possible.
>>79094983
Textbook strawman
The death penalty is meant to deter people from committing heinous crimes like mass murder, terrorism, and high treason.
>>79098062
not an argument
>>79093976
I'm all for capital punishment.
However, it should be mandatory that the killer be executed in the same manner as he killed his victims
>>79097278
>assuming that I talk shit about niggers or arabs
>assuming I'm exactly like them
You don't actually have anything to say so you just make assumptions about my character.
>>79097390
No, you're here to criticize law. And how is disproving some incorrect notion about the death penalty kissing the law's ass.
>>79093976
Eye for an eye, is how it should be. If you take an axe to someone's face, you should get an axe to the face, not a painless injection or life in prison.
>>79093976
An eye for an eye, nigga.
Why the fuck would you want to keep a murderer around, anyway?
>>79098127
And giving someone a charge that is excessive in order to deter other crimes violates his 5th and 8th amendment rights in this case
>>79098040
If we were to handle the death penalty properly, we'd save quite a bit of money. More over, we might actually put the fear of death back into criminals were we to use older & better methods.
But hey, keep pretending that murderers are on the same level as executioners. "They both kill people," there's certainly no nuance or contextual difference.
>>79098061
In the United States it is actually very expensive to put a prisoner on death row because of all the appeals and paperwork that occurs. Sure, you could ram rod the process, but you run the risk of killing an innocent person
>>79098143
>>79098207
>>79098241
I see we are reaching a singularity.
>>79097717
All you want is something to circlejerk over with your liberal peers. Virtue signalling by letting monsters back into society.
Here's my perspective on this.
This isn't about justice, it's about sending a message.
That this behavior will not be tolerated among the collective.
Why mommy slapped your hand before you stuck it in the fire.
Why you were put in 5 hour detention for swearing at your teacher.
It's not there because justice is the way of the world, it's there to make a statement; "That you all better fall in line"
>>79094091
Jo Cox says otherwise.
You should be able to auction off convicted terrorists to the highest bidder.
Give those rich insane murderous sociopaths a legal way to torture/mutilate people, make a killing doing it and the best part is
> you can tax it
>>79098143
So soldiers should be bombed, shot and dismembered? Police officers should be shot and beaten? Executioners should be given lethal injections? Oh but wait, those are state-sanctioned killings so you'll ignore those
>>79098266
Don't pull the "muh constitution" argument, when you've previously attempted to state that divine law supersedes American legal code.
You intellectually stunted, childish faggots are the worst.
>>79095240
I can reload cartridges for less than $0.20 per round, and I know the state can get them cheaper. It's not like we execute thousands every year and there aren't cheaper alternatives. Cost of execution is a meme.
>>79098419
Not an argument
>>79098298
>More over, we might actually put the fear of death back into criminals were we to use older & better methods.
Violates 5th and 8th amendment rights
>>79098266
The 5th amendment LITERALLY says the government/American people have a right to execute your ass you fucking retard.
It says right there that you can be "deprived of life."
>>79098266
>Dying for murder or worse is excessive
And how the hell would it violate the 5th amendment if the defendant gets a full trial
>>79098172
I made that assumption based on the fact that you're posting on a board where people constantly bitch about subhumans from other races. If you're not one of those people, good for you, at least you're not a hypocrite. Doesn't make death penalty any less barbaric, though.
>>79098352
not an argument
All I want is to not give the STATE the ability to legally take the life of its citizens
>>79098419
Stop pretending all lives are equal regardless of the actions they make in the course of living.
>>79098556
See:
>>79098468
Don't pick and choose what you like. Stay intellectually consistent.
>>79098330
Just because your system is retarded doesn't mean that the idea itself is.
Do it like China: shooting squad, family gets the bill for the bullets.
>>79098371
Underrated
>>79098359
>This isn't about justice, it's about sending a message.
Violates 5th and 8th amendment rights
>>79098556
Wrong. See
>>79098570
Read the God damn amendment asshat.
Fuck the appeals and fuck all this court/cost bullshit. If you kill people, and there is absolute proof that you killed them, there is no need for an appeal. No shit it costs a lot because of the court and all that other bullshit, but in this country you can buy a box of 100 rounds of ammunition for roughly $4 from Cabela's and you can buy a semiautomatic handgun for roughly $500. It only takes one bullet per stupid motherfucker, which would not only cut court costs and reduce tax money spent on bullshit like feeding and housing murderers, it would wipe these scum off the face of the planet and would allow us to use our taxes for things that are actually important, such as the failing education system and urban poverty.
>>79093976
Apply this line of thinking to nuclear deterrence and your nuclear deterrent becomes a joke. Anyone could reduce your nation to a blasted wasteland of twisted scrap and shattered glass, safe in the knowledge that you won't retaliate because "a counterstrike won't bring back the millions of people that just died five minutes ago".
Fags.
This is why cucks should be kept as far from the levers of power as humanly possible. Thank god the Cold War is over or Canada would have been reduced to a cider by now. Oh wait....
>>79093976
How can you actually prove beyond doubt that they did it though
>>79098371
Holy shit
>>79098680
Fifth Amendment:
>The Fifth Amendment of the United States Constitution provides that “(n)o person shall be held to answer for a capital . . . crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, . . . nor be deprived of life . . . without due process of law.”
>>79098629
The state will still have that ability through the police force and military even without the death penalty. The world doesn't function like the anarchist/communal fantasy in your head.
>>79097187
Yup , any cheaper than this and we would be pushing death row inmates off cliffs.
>>79098641
>>79098468
I never said divine law supsersedes american legal code
I was arguing that that guy shouldn't imply that his desert sand nigger religion supersedes the american legal code you fucking braindead retards
>>79098344
>I see we are reaching a singularity
Not really. It's just a very common saying that has been around forever.
>>79094486
t. Street Shitter
>>79098570
>>79098836
And it violates the fifth amendment because you are violating DUE PROCESS by charging him with an excessive punishment that otherwise wouldn't be given just in order to "deter" future crime
Fucking braindead....
>>79093976
No, but it sends a stern message to other would-be criminals and terrorists that "you better not attempt what this guy did, or we will fuck you up and kill you."
People have to have repercussions for their actions.
rehabilitate where possible,
if they are completely sociopathic, impossible to rehabilitate or unfit to reintroduce to society ever, put them down
>>79098371
fucking savage
>>79093976
I've always held this belief (only applies to very bad cases of murder, rape, torture, etc):
the rights of the victims relatives to know this person 'is no more', supercede over the perpetrators right to live. simple. make it humane, no drama, no 'punishment', just end his life.
>>79096406
>barbaric Bronze Age concept of "justice"
simply ebin
Why allow the government to exert its greatest form of control over individuals?
Literally government murdering people.
>>79099058
No, it doesn't, you brain dead fuck. The death penalty is not "an excessive punishment." Executioners and soldiers aren't murderers.
These aren't hard concepts. Pick up a book and drop the sophists on Youtube.
Honestly the death penalty should be used for people who cannot be rehabilitated into a normal, law abiding citizen.
If the court has reason to believe that a person will be a danger to the public upon release (or in prison) then being put to death is truly the only solution.
>>79093976
It's a waste of taxpayers money to keep them alive. Besides I think it should be common sense that taking someone's life willingly means giving up on one's own.
>>79099058
>an explicit punishment in an amendment violates the same amendment because reasons
I assume you meant the 8th, not the 5th, which doesn't matter anyway as it's impossible to argue that the same people who literally wrote down "the government can kill you" would simultaneously view the government killing you as either cruel or unusual.
You're fucking braindead.
>>79097141
>le comfy prison meme
>>79099058
that's not what due process means...
>>79093976
I believe there should be a limited number of death penalties that can be handed out each year.
Let's say 10 or so people every year for each country or state.
Basically, every year each country has a right to get rid of the 10 worst offenders in the land with their names and criminal records published.
You could make an election of the whole thing to see if they should die or be spared.
>>79093976
>implying Tsarev brothers did the Boston bombing.
>>79099206
>the rights of the victims relatives to know this person 'is no more', supercede over the perpetrators right to live
Why? You just made the argument that someone else's feelings are more valid than a person's human right to live -- even if that person is imprisoned for life and has no chance to harm anyone anymore.
>>79099244
>it's barbaric because it's older than I am
I believe capital punishment is both cruel and unusual, and has no place in a civilized society
However, Islam is nigger tier shit and I don't think theres anything wrong with killing an enemy combatant on the battlefield
>>79093976
that is not the point about executing people.
Its about removing the threat for good so they cant do it again.
Same reason you kill your enemies in war.
Murder =! Kill
Let justice be served
I think there should be a constant camera on them and we could watch them all day on a site like twitch. Let them live out their days as very confined Truman Show people.
>>79099590
>I believe capital punishment is both cruel and unusual,
It's not a matter of believe, it very clearly isn't as written in the 5th amendment, which explictely says the US people can kill you back.
>>79099712
>removing the threat
That's what prisons are for. Truly dangerous criminals don't get out there anytime soon.
>>79094486
damn dat shit rlly makkkes u tink
Why bother punishing any crime? It won't undue the action. Or make the victims' lives any better. And, as te war on drugs has shown, it has no effect on crime rates.
So why bother?
>>79093976
Do they think we don't know it won't bring the victims back? Nice argument.
Death penalty works under the time honored "talk shit, get hit" principle. They kill, they die.
>>79097274
What? The part that we are alive in the end and they're not?
>>79098777
You can't have absolute proof without the trial process.
>>79097945
Explain how, or suck my fat one
>>79093976
I don't agree with either of them. My strong belief is that more innocent Americans should be killed, simply because they killed every terrorist without questioning him. This is simply hiding of evidence and Americans aren't innocent. I think there should be a capital punishment for cops and their families who are involved in killing key terrorist evidence. As long as those people are alive there won't be no end to terrorism. Similar thing with American ghettos, just the fact that ghetto and drug trade exists should be reason enough to slaughter every cop employed at ghetto city. Don't tell me they can't solve the crime, they don't want to solve the crime. Fucking 'Mericans.
>>79093976
>"Killing them won't bring their victims back."
Makes sense.
>We should bring more of this "peaceful" kind of people to our country.
Now this is full retard.
>>79099876
The truly dangerous, that can never atone for their sins, or be trusted in polite society are a waste of money, though.
Yes, you can throw a thief or a vandal in prison. A traitor or murderer, though? Those people, regardless of their mental health, can never be trusted in society. What purpose is there in keeping them in prison for the rest of their lives on society's dime?
>>79098842
oh shit ur right!! i f**king love capital punishment now!!! xd xd
>>79099876
They can still kill others in prison, in fact it happens all the fucking time.
>>79098849
just have the people on death row beat each other to death with rocks
you don't even have to pay a hangman
>>79093976
I'm not a expert, but I read somewhere that can capital punishment is an effective deterrence if government actually enforce their death sentence regularly. I think only Texas follow this guide.
>>79098371
Nice!
>>79099876
they can escape.
they cost cash to keep in.
prison is about rehabilitating people and showing them how nice freedom was before the incarceration.
Sooner or later, God'll cut them down
Might as well help Him out with His to-do list
But in truth? Justice feels fucking good. There is a primordial innate satisfaction in seeing justice meted out to the wicked, even if you're not otherwise related to the crime.
>>79098842
>le fantasy strawman
Did he say he supports wars and police killings?
>>79099277
executioners and soliders ARE murderers
it just makes you feel all warm and fuzzy and morally superior inside to pretend they arent
>>79099859
It in no way says that. It simply says to be charged for a capital crime, you need to have a grand jury indictment. It doesnt prescribe the punishment for a capital crime
>>79093976
Capital punishment only works when it's done soon after conviction, not 25 years later. Liberals win again.
Let em rot in prison. They have plenty of time to be dead. Death will only end their suffering.
>>79094155
2PBP
>>79099414
you've already argued that the reason you're giving him the death penalty is to "deter" other crime
therefore you're violating due process because you aren't trying his case, you're trying the cases of those future killers youre trying to deter
>>79099567
>le everyone I don't like is le rebbit meme
1. Death Penalty is more expensive
2. Statistically, abolishing the Death Denalty reduces crime
3. Life in a maximum security prison with little to no social activities is way harsher than death
4. The death penalty takes decades to implement making it a huge waste of time to begin with
>>79099510
yes it is
>>79100347
It absolutely does say that:
>nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation
What the fuck do you think "deprived of life" means?
>>79093976
>Punishing criminals won't uncommit their crimes
>>79093976
I'll kill whoever I want and who ever crosses me will be dealt vengeance.
>>79100339
Shhh
>>79100255
its not justice its revenge and you're a fucking sadist just like your sand nigger god
>>79100505
No I didn't. And one of the earliest written sections of the US criminal code prescribes the death penalty for treason, it was passed the same Congress that drafted the Bill of Rights.
Knowing that, and the fact that the 5the amendment explicitely says a person can be deprived of life for their crimes how could you possibly argue that the death penalty isn't 100% legal?
>>79093976
I cant support the death penalty for four reasons
>waste of money
it literally costs more to go through the whole process of having appeal after appeal to execute someone than simply giving them life in prison
>not actually an effective deterant
the murder rate is actually higher in states and countries with the death penalty because criminals are dumb as dogshit and think it means they better kill witnesses too
>morally hypocritical
"its bad to kill people even if they deserve it... I mean unless the state does it obviously!"
>cant be undone
you can let a wrongfully convicted person out of jail but you can't bring them back to life
only good argument for the death penalty I can think of is there's some people so dangerous you can't risk them escaping (ted bundy escaped twice and killed again before they gave him the chair or example) but that could be solved by simply not having shit security
>>79100350
>Liberals win again.
fucking braindead low iq bluepiller thinking taking another mans life is an "us vs them" team issue
>>79097492
>The state and human beings are not qualified to deem what is evil and what is not.
why put him in jail if you're not qualified to say that murder is bad
>>79100194
A lot of people are a waste of money for society, old people, crippled people, everyone who leeches off welfare bucks. Some of them have never worked in their lives and never will. Should we kill them all, too? Do you understand the basic principles of human rights?
Also, who are you to say who can be trusted back into society and who can't? I'm sure even murderers have been successfully rehabilitated before.
>>79100215
Then maybe you should improve your goddamn awful prisons, so they actually prevent people from comitting crimes instead incouraging them to become even more awful
>>79100332
If he doesn't then he's definitely seeking a fantasy. Sometimes people need to be killed. It's not worth our time, money, or sympathy to keep human garbage alive in prison, or worse, letting them back onto the streets.
These are the same fucking people who whine and cry when criminals are shot in home invasions or robberies. It's an entire culture more concerned with looking morally superior among peers and protecting the "rights" of criminals and ignoring their victims.
>>79100339
It's not about warm fuzzy feelings, you childish fuck, it's about completely incomparability.
Murderer is literally defined by the OED as:
"The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another"
Murder=/=killing. All trees are plants, but not all plants are trees. All murder is killing, but not all killing is murder.
Quit removing context and nuance to fit your simplistic worldview.
>>79100537
No. It isn't.
>>79100700
00700
> fucking edge on this guy man
>>79100764
Lol, holy shit. You've got issues kid.
>>79100579
You nitwit, once again, it merely says what the conditions for applying a hypothetical death penalty would be. There is no law in the constitution prescribing the death penalty.
>>79094091
If you kill your enemys, they die.
>>79100870
The death penalty is legal and i never argued otherwise (it shouldnt be legal though)
I argued that giving someone the death penalty for the reason of "trying to deter future killers from committing murder" violates the defendants 5th amendment rights with regard to his right to "due process" because you aren't trying his case objectively and as its own self-contained case.
>>79100899
>Then maybe you should improve your goddamn awful prisons, so they actually prevent people from comitting crimes instead incouraging them to become even more awful
So you're blaming the prisons for the person who has already shown themselves happy to murder when completely free for any murders they may commit on the inside?
That's a hell of a mental backflip.
>>79093976
if you kill all of them there will not be more victims
>>79094747
I clapped
>>79096717
Not bad...not bad.
>>79093976
Because killing them is way cheaper and assures 100% they won't hurt anyone else
>b-b-but thanks to all the legal procedures capital punishment is actually more expensive!
But it shouldn't be, that's what happens when Jewish lawyers can cuck the justice system into wasting money for no reason. Basically if there's 100% undeniable that the perpetrator is guilty of <heinous crime here> then have them executed, otherwise don't bother
To me capital punishment is simply an economic decision. In cases where rehabilitation is impossible, or they are jailed for the rest of their life, the costs are in the hundreds of thousands vs like 20 cents for a bullet.
Though i think it should only be used sparingly and rehabilitation should be the primary concern of prisons.
>>79101216
Prisons are supposed to rehabilitate criminals and prevent them from doing the bad shit they did in the past. If they fail to do so, they're obviously not fulfilling their porpose
>>79101023
It explicitly states that the judicial process has a right to deprive someone of life. It's right there, in black and white. Deal with it.
>>79101212
And I never used deterrence as an argument, but if I had it would be better than you using the amendment that explicitely condones the death penalty as punishment.
>>79100883
You don't give someone the death penalty for something that is "bad"
You are using "evil" as a term synonymous to "something that will give me an excuse to kill this guy over"
You can restrict a human beings movement within society in order to protect the greater good through imprisonment but killing him does not in any way help protect the greater good more so than imprisonment. You literally only want to kill him because it will make you feel good to do so.
>>79101471
Says who? And even if that were their purpose how do you fix the unfixable?
>>79100959
ok i will willingly except my state sanctioned killing from my government overlords thanks to you making me see reason
thank you lord government, please kill me, i do not deserve life, your will is superior to mine, you are morally superior to me
>>79100998
not an argument
>>79093976
Its all about retrebution.
Some people just deserve to die. There is literally nothing wrong with revenge.
>Hurr it's barbaric
What do you think we are?
>>79101485
You still haven't presented me with an argument
>>79100870
>how can you argue the death penalty is 100% legal
First of all, let me just say, I agree insofar as the idea that the death penalty is "settled law." There is nothing legally wrong with it in the US.
The question is what "cruel and unusual" means
Some have written its cruel on that basis that, "Receiving the death penalty is as arbitrary as being struck by lightening." Unusual because of how many developed nations still apply it
This is not an argument against the concept of a death penalty--only to say that you have to enforce it equally across the board (you cant escape by tying the system up with appeals), otherwise risk undermining the rule of law
As it stands, the death penalty in the US is dysfunctional
>>79093976
If you kill your murderers, they win.
>>79101720
My argument was that it is explicitely Constitutional despite your bitching and moaning.
>>79101836
not an argument
>>79101485
No, it explicitly states the conditional restrictions a judicial process is bound by when depriving someone of life. Once again, there is no law against murder in the constitution. If there is, point me to it
I oppose the death penalty because the government should not have the power to kill except in active combat.
I also oppose abortion.
Unless it's death by torture, you are wrong
>>79093976
life is suffering, so really it's no punishment at all
>>79093976
>feels good
>puts the fear of God into the enemies
>prevents them from spawning offspring
>clear, visual reminder of what's good and what's bad and the consequences
They should use it much more and for lesser crimes desu lads
>>79101724
>Some have written its cruel on that basis that, "Receiving the death penalty is as arbitrary as being struck by lightening."
How the fuck is it arbitrary? You don't get executed for parking tickets.
Every God damn person knows what crimes can get you a hangman's noose.
>>79101873
You are so fucking braindead
You literally can't read
>>79101563
>Says who?
Anyone with a brain. What do you think prisons are for, putting criminals into a terrible environment, so they can pay for their evil crimes? That's middle age thinking.
>And even if that were their purpose how do you fix the unfixable?
Keep them away from society for the rest of their lives but in conditions that don't violate their human rights (as far as it's possible being imprisoned).
>>79096406
>Eye for an eye
And the world would go blind
>>79101880
>No, it explicitly states the conditional restrictions a judicial process is bound by when depriving someone of life.
Indeed. And when those restrictions are conformed to...then what can they do to you?
>>79093976
Keeping them alive at taxpayer expense won't bring the victims back. Releasing the criminals would create more victims.
Killing them is the only rational conclusion. It also serves are a more effective deterrent to other potential criminals.
I hate how much money it costs. It's genuinely retarded.
Just take the sand nigger out back and put a bullet in him. Lifestream it if you want to make money.
>>79101666
>What do you think we are?
Savages born a few hundred years too late, apparently
>>79102178
no it doesn't you fucking moron because the criminal is fucking dead and even if his degenerate nigger family wanted to kill the executioners they wouldn't know who they were
death penalty is the exact opposite of eye for an eye
>>79101644
>>79101720
>>79101874
2+2=4 is not an argument either, it's simply a true statement.
Here's another one: you're a dipshit. Not an argument, but true all the same.
>>79098032
Lethal injection execution is more expensive. I favor the firing squad or guillotine, much cheaper.
>>79102172
You can't keep a person away from everyone for every without violating their human rights. And if this person has already shown themselves a murderer you can't gaurantee the safety of those they interact with in prison. Not the medical staff, the guards, or the other prisoners.
Absolutely braindead argument.
>>79102051
Mmmmmm, youve missed the point. Its arbitrary because of how few people "deserve" (as defined by law and decided by a judiciary) it actually get it.
Similar to most drug laws, really.
>>79102295
>taxpayer expense
because of the ability for them to fight it, it can cost more to kill them than to keep them alive unfortunately
>>79102298
>When we hit $1000 he dies
>>79093976
Rapists, terrorists, and murderers aren't people so why are you complaining?
>The one ID with 38 fucking posts
>half of them are memes or "not an arguement"
What is your problem. Why don't respond to the people who are actually talking to you instead of just dismissing most of them with "not an argument" even when they obviously have arguments.
>inb4 not an arguement
I bet that most cucks here that don't agree with the death penalty supports abortion.
>>79102554
Not an argument
I think you need to take in the severity of the crime.
Why can't the death penalty only be reserved for those who took many lives. It sounds absurd on its face but what you're essentially trying to do us argue individual life vs. Life of the population. If "the people" are determining one man's fate, then what does one individual need to do to be a threat to the people?
But conversations like this rarely result in anything productive, when you're talking about human life you can always make the argument that no human should be able to kill another human without consequences
>>79102485
Wrong. Mercy of the courts is not arbitrary, it's a function of Common Law that's existed for half a millenia.
Are you suggesting the people who wrote the 5th and 8th amendment had no understanding of this aspect of Common Law?
>>79098241
An eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind.
>>79093976
What about instead of enforcing the death penalty, we just give prisoners the option to off themselves. It sounds cruel but if you're serving a life sentence it'd say it's the more humane route
>>79102298
It's only retarded because you guys have put away and executed too many innocent people
So in order to ensure that happens even the obviously guilty get the same treatment
>>79099058
You have to be at least 18 to post on this website.
On topic, my thoughts on the death penalty:
For it in concept, against in practice. If we could 110% know for sure we didn't kill anyone who didn't deserve it, I'd be all for it.
>>79102754
>>79102635
not an argument
if there is any argument i have dismissed as "not an argument" that is actually indeed an argument please show it to me
>>79102036
It does none of that though. It's already proven that it isn't a deterrent and killing people (who have to be mentally ill because normal people don't kill people on purpose) to show people that killing people is wrong is literally leftist logic. What's worse is that you get righteous about what's basically the equivalent of killing a child.
>Shitalians
>>79093976
It's not about righting their wrong.
It's about getting rid of them forever.
>>79093976
Killing, in any form, teaches the world that even the highest powers are willing to murder.
It's not an eye for an eye type thing. It's more or less showing people that killing is still okay.
We need to ship all these people to an island and let them fend for themselves.
>>79093976
they don't deserve to be let out in to society after what they did, they will never get released so might as well save some money and hang them
>>79102714
not an argument
>>79102200
They can kill you, but those laws are not found in the constitution, as I've repeated three times now. Simply put, there is no prescription for capital punishment in the constitution, and I am looking forward to you giving up on that point. If anything, the constitutions aim is to *limit* capital punishment
>>79102473
>You can't keep a person away from everyone for every without violating their human rights
That's why I wrote
>as far as it's possible being imprisoned
Obviously you still violate some of their rights but it should be as few as possible.
> And if this person has already shown themselves a murderer you can't gaurantee the safety of those they interact with in prison. Not the medical staff, the guards, or the other prisoners
A prison should be able to prevent criminals from comitting more crimes, that's the whole fucking point of prisons. "But but what if they still..?" is not an argument to fucking kill somebody.
Meh. The government makes decisions in health, road safety, pollution etc. everyday that kills people so I wont shed too many tears for this one
>>79102843
not an argument
>>79096196
We have regulations about killing animals and fetuses. The state already decides who is worthy of living.
>>79103133
not an argument
>>79096858
>Does the executioner deserve to die? Do soldiers deserve to die?
No, because the executioner doesn't forfeit their rights in the same way the murder does. An executioner is not a murderer, (the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.)
I'm not picking who gets to live and die, you are deciding your own fate by your own actions. If you murder, then you yourself have chosen death.
Why not just torture him for the rest of his life?
Simple imprisonment or a gentle injection for execution is lame as fuck.
Proven terrorists like this should be tortured for the rest of their lives.
>>79102890
>they're just troubled boys, not their fault
>t. Mehmet
hue
>>79103039
>as far as it's possible being imprisoned
>Obviously you still violate some of their rights but it should be as few as possible.
So we never let them see medical staff? Ever? What about those that serve them food? What about chaplains?
What you're asking for is literally not possible.
>>79102774
>common law
I dont think that word means what you think it means. Why on Earth would the founders leave England, settle the US, and revolt against common law just to re-establish it? Common law arguments are typically laughed out of US courts.
>mercy of the courts
Not what I said at all. Many cases are dismissed on technicalities (mistrials and such). They never make it to see the mercy of the courts. Try to keep up
>>79103229
i hope that makes you feel morally superior and all warm and fuzzy inside
>>79102858
Buddy, the point is calling out an argumentative fallacy is by itself "not an argument" as you like to say.
Even if someone insults you, you can't just say "ooh, ad homeneim, I win!" you still have to keep up your argument. This is basic debating man, come on.
>inb4 not an argument
A modern understanding of crime rejects the idea that criminal systems are for the benefit of the criminal or the victims. Civil courts serve that purpose, but jail and capital punishment are for the sake of the third party- as a deterrent and as an appeal to justice and order. We might move completely away from capital punishment, but only because the public has lost the taste for executions and so they are no longer serving their function.
Sure it won't, allowing a murderer to get away with his crime and let him live is insulting the victim's death.
>>79093976
On one hand, I feel that keeping them alive, but imprisoned forever, is harsher punishment than killing them, since you can't suffer while you're dead. Or at least it would be if the prison system wasn't as cushy.
On the other hand, keeping them alive means there's a chance they could escape or be released in the future and do more damage.
So really, which one is the best option depends on what your motive for applying it is. Do you want the criminal to suffer, or do you simply want to remove him from society forever? If the former, life in a gulag. If the latter, execution.
>>79103299
>Why not just torture him for the rest of his life?
Because we don't live in the middle ages anymore, you braindead leaf.
Jail has always been the lowering of standards of what we'll accept as a society. An eye for an eye might be savage but at least it's over.
>>79103355
are you just there to piss on people? or why would you protect a murderer?
Not much use to me alive, are they, Turkish?
>>79103352
Common Law countries in red.
>>79103365
not an argument
you still have not presented me with an argument
>>79103355
Is that even an argument? If you kill someone then you are morally inferior, yes.
>>79093976
Its not about righting the wrong, its about justice. You need to be punished for your crime.
If you use your fucked up logic then we may as well say "jailing tyrone won't bring the stolen car back" so we may as well do nothing.
What's the big hubbub over killing a murderer? Give them, what, 10 years to find new evidence and try to appeal a couple of times. After that it's off to the firing squads or even gallows, make an example out of these people that will send the message "this will not be tolerated.". I don't get the hurt feelings over killing someone who's murdered someone. Ethics and rights have no place in this discussion, they should be treated like any other prisoner up until the day of execution. Lethal injection has too much wrong with it and is too expensive, just do it the inexpensive way. Much less money than supporting a person for the rest of their natural lives.
>>79103400
But his belief system is still stuck in the middle ages. Its what he would want!
>>79093976
Killing them is a good way to remove them from society without having to waste resources keeping them alive in a prison.
Sending people to forced labor camps for life is also a good punishment (they can stay alive as long as they produce more than they consume).
>>79103299
you know what, demoralizing the camelfuckers by constantly showing these images could actually have an effect.
>>79103486
Because the state should not have the right of determining which citizens are allowed to live and which citizens they can kill
>>79102858
Here's a recent one for example
>2+2=4 is not an argument either, it's simply a true statement.
>"le not an argument"
He was telling you to back op your "not an argument" for once and what did you do?
Also,
>textbook strawman
>"le not an arguement"
Trying do dismiss the obvious strawman the poster he was responding to was creating. He was arguing that everybody in the justice system are actually psychopathic murderers and that poster called him out on it.
Not to mention you're responding to people who aren't talking to you and still spouting the same shit. You're at the point where you're not here for discussion and you're just shitting up the thread.
>>79103586
>If you kill someone then you are morally inferior, yes
Then soldiers, police officers and executioners are morally inferior because they have killed someone?
>>79103486
He's just doubling down on the troll angle at this point
>>79103313
>So we never let them see medical staff? Ever? What about those that serve them food? What about chaplains?
I did not write that. You're implying there's NO way prison staff could interact with murderes without the massive danger of being killed by them any moment, which is fucking retarded.
>>79103660
>Meh. The government makes decisions in health, road safety, pollution etc. all the time that kills people far more innocent than him so I wont shed too many tears
>>79093976
Like in physics law only exists if it applies universally to everything.
Same thing goes for our law. If somebody brakes it then this law doesn't protect him anymore.
If a man kills let people kill him if they want.
>>79103751
not an argument
>>79103560
Okay, my mistake. I didn't realize you meant the application of jurisprudence as opposed to literal English Common Law.
>>79103797
Why do these people deserve any danger?
Are you suggesting murdering an innocnt is beyond the pale of someone who has already murdered perhaps many innocents?
>>79103660
the state has the responsibility to act in the will of the people, besides being "reasonable" and above them.
>>79103834
There is no train of comprehensible logic here.
You're literally just making statements and implying one somehow proves the next.
>>79098371
That was so savage you gained an 'a' and 'l' in your nationality for a moment.
>>79093976
The justice system is there to enact revenge on behalf of the victim.
If victims are not satisfied with the vengeance doled out by the justice system, then, increasingly, they will circumvent it entirely.
>>79104030
If the will of the people is that they should kill all Christians, should the government do it?
>>79103752
Don't be so pedantic, I wrote kill but you know I meant murder. There is justifiable killing, such as times of war (soldiers,) legal consequences (executioners) or defense of society (police.)
My point that you're not grasping here is that once you MURDER, not kill, and are proven guilty, you forfeit your human rights. That's why one type of murder is justifiable and the other isn't. That's why an executioner isn't to be put to death.
>>79103599
To expand upon the grace period, if there's a heap of evidence against the accused to the point where there's no doubt about them murdering others then they shouldn't be given grace. Just cart them off to the preferred method of execution, give them last words, etc.
>>79103906
ok buddy. I know backing up statements and actually discussing things can take a toll on special kids like you.
I know it's a lot to take in at once so why don't you spend the next few hours contemplating that post. Don't do it too fast else your brain might overheat.
>>79104022
>Why do these people deserve any danger?
Because they work in a prison. It's something they just have to deal with, just like other dangerous jobs put you in danger. Nobody forces them to work in such a place.
>Are you suggesting murdering an innocnt is beyond the pale of someone who has already murdered perhaps many innocents?
I think any form of murder is wrong.
>>79104142
>proven guilty
You cannot be proven guilty. You can only be found guilty by a jury of your peers.
>you forfeit your human rights
No, you are disenfranchised temporarily until your sentence is complete at which point you regain the majority of your rights.
>That's why one type of murder is justifiable and the other isn't. That's why an executioner isn't to be put to death.
It's not justified. You are accepting that the State owns your life and can kill you if they so choose.
>>79104318
not an argument
>>79104053
Breaking the law is like disagreeing. You decided that you won't follow this rule so you are not protected by it too.
To be totally honest, the reason I don't support the death penalty is this: I just dont want to participate in putting someone to death. I dont want to be the ax man, or the firing squad, or the Dr with the needle. Therefore, I dont want to ask someone else to do it on my behalf
Really has almost nothing to do with the criminal
https://ripeace.wordpress.com/2012/09/14/the-murder-of-junko-furuta-44-days-of-hell/
When I see shit like this, with overwelming evidence and confessions. Adults or not, there's no turning back from this, and I think execution is the way to go.
>>79104486
No law exists in its original state permanently.
The law is inherently flawed and they are certaintly not all justified.
I will not accept your notion that the State owns its citizens lives and can kill them as they so choose
>>79104419
The same could be said for lifelong imprisonment which is arguably worse than capital punishment. Nothing is stopping the government from framing you and letting you rot in a jail cell.
>>79104640
Pathos/appeal to emotion is
not
o
t
an
n
argument
r
g
u
m
e
n
t
>>79104486
In the US, at least, criminals have the right to "due process of law"
Its important, because not everyone who stands trial is guilty. In your system, you would have to assume guilt
>>79104361
>I think any form of murder is wrong.
And yet punishing it the fairest way, the way that potects the most people and relieves the burden on society insofar as it can, seems to be too much for you.
>>79104764
That's another problem but let's take it one step at a time.
>>79104904
Agreed. We shouldn't punish anyone for anything.
>>79104799
Dude, stop. You're not helping your cause
>>79105060
not an argument
>>79105120
Sorry, but what was your argument again?
>>79105060
As I said before, hes just trolling at this point. his goal is to shit up the thread to prevent further discussion
>>79105227
Back in my day, trolling used to mean something, etc
>>79104904
I don't get it, your argument was that the legal system can't be trusted. I don't see why you can use that defense for capital punishment but I can't use it for lifelong imprisonment.
>>79104708
>No law exists in its original state permanently.
And? It's not like it won't follow this rule. You brake new law and it's still happens.
>I will not accept your notion that the State owns its citizens lives and can kill them as they so choose
Never implied that. People are people.
You have problem interpreting it. This is how it works.
Somebody takes something away from you. You have right to take it back.
Somebody punches you. You have right to punch back.
Somebody tries to kill you. You have right to protect yourself by killing him.
>>79105211
In a murder trial, it violates the defendant's 5th amendment right of "due process" by giving him the punishment of the death penalty when the judge or jury's decision/opinion is clearly stated as giving this punishment for the reason of deterring future crimes of similar nature.
>>79104136
the government should probably take a step back but still act in their interests. If people wanted to take gruesome revenge on the murderer, he should instead be executed peacefully.
>>79104708
The US doesn't own lives. It doesn't just kill them as they choose. That's the whole point of a trial, evidence, and a judge/jury/executioner. There's an entire court system designed to avoid any injustice. Furthermore, you're being incredibly one sided here, and refusing to see things in any other way than from the perpetrators pov. Maybe expand your thought process a bit and stop being so close minded. Or don't- I don't give a fuck, because you seem like a massive idiot. And yes, that's not an argument. It's more of a fact. Now why don't you go fuck a picture of Stefan, you 50+ posting butt dumpling loser. ;)
>>79100527
>Death Penalty is more expensive
Because we have to make sure they don't feel pain which is utter bullshit, just use helium to knock them out and wait ten mins until death. It's the best way to go and most harmless. Fucking Libs.
>>79105455
You can but in order to get that punishment removed we must first get capital punishment removed
>>79100975
Vengence got me somewhere by killing Cui, Dodoria, Zarbon, and the Ginyu Force.
>>79105479
Yes but when you fail to defend yourself and end up dead it is no longer in the realm of "defense" to have your successors or the state kill your aggressor.
Law is always flawed. It is not sacred enough of an entity to justify taking one's life over.
>>79105546
>butt dumpling
Not an argument :^)
>>79105642
So if your loved one was murdered, and you saw the suspect do it, and he was found guilty, what would you hope the legal system decides to do?
>>79105546
There's nothing wrong with your post but it is still my opinion that capital punishment should not be a punishment that is valid for the state to give
>>79105523
you're correct but the government should not act morally superior in their act of "peacefully executing" someone (peacefully executing is an oxymoron)
Governments will and should enforce their will but do not pretend they are morally objective.
>>79105904
As much as I dislike the person you're arguing with, hypotheticals like that are poor form
>>79105793
He killed a man. He is no longer protected by it.
If he failed. He would be protected.
If died during attack. Victim is innocent and protected.
This is how it all works in real life. It's the same system we use.
>>79106115
He just said life sentences and death penalty should both be abolished, so I want to know what his alternative is.
>>79105904
Allow the deceased's loved one to duel the aggressor in singular combat in a method (equal for both sides) of the loved one's choosing.
Otherwise, if the loved one of the deceased declines this method then the court should imprison him for 20~ years and should be periodically evaluated to see if he has been rehabilitated
>>79106242
The system is flawed.
>>79093976
During one of my college classes, I was doing a writing assignment on should the death penalty be abolished? When I tried to Google for sources, all anti death penalty think the DP is racist.
>>79106433
not an argument
>>79106359
Yeah, give him another chance to kill. So if he wins the duel he kills 2 people and gets to walk away scot-free?
Now I know you're trolling. Kek.
