For all things Christian
Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants alike are welcome to discuss theology. Try to be polite.
Atheists also welcome, but try to be constructive.
Pastebin for believers and curious folk.
http://pastebin.com/xMQ9wAwW
Pastebin for Orthodox
http://pastebin.com/bN1ujq2x
Good Scenes to watch
>Jesus Anime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d-uB0vaoQo
>Jesus of Nazareth Sermon on the Mount:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDCbJ4vnMNg
>Jesus chases Jews out of the Temple
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEtBs6j7QgU
>Jesus gives sight to the Blind....and takes sight from those who can see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY7vamVg99E
>Roman Centurion has more faith than anyone in Israel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNLSBjYDPko
>Ben Hur scenes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVlf7OiiTJE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbt2UUthWg0
>Why Atheists shouldn't discourage Christianity even if they don't believe in it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqQdc0mX1_c
>Thread Theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5YEKO04RDI
Thank you Jesus for your sacrifice
God bless all :)
>being a Christian
cucks
>>76337246
How do I get faith?
>>76337331
Amen. May God bless you too, anon :)
>>76337388
How do the two things relate?
>mfw Joseph lets himself be literally cucked by God for greater justice
>>76337474
Read ip on the topic m8 - its historicity and the arguments for the existence of God. Read the New Testament too, in particular the Gospels. Pray too.
>>76338027
up*
>>76337629
Crude desu
>>76337474
let God into your heart my mate
Perhaps my dear bong and the ruskie will catch this?
>>76338060
That's not epistemic certainty though, which is what we're talking about. You're not actually *certain* - you just have high degrees of conviction.
Our faith doesn't make it so. Our faith is our faith. It has nothing to do with certainty - and that's fine.
>>76338185
Is that what you'd like x to be?
>>76337388
Christians believe marriage between one man and one woman. Atheists and others are pushing polyamory and letting their wives screw other men
>>76337474
Read Romans 1 and get back to me
>>76338520
Our faith does not make it, itself certain. It makes us certain (convinced) of it
I was just being poetic
You've got to mould your heart sometimes with your reason
Only way we can be truly human
To all our Catholic friends: sorry I couldn't get today's liturgy in the OP, but if you have it on hand, feel free to post it :)
>>76338891
I'm a stickler for terms senpai. If anything it just manifests as conviction.
I know people would like to use the words "certain" and "know", but we can't apply them. And that's *fine*. Let the scientism kooks be the intellectually dishonest ones.
>>76338821
Could you address
>>76338080
>>76338520
What I was saying in the last thread is that everyone knows God exists, and when someone denies the existence of God, your world view leads to absurdity
>>76339202
But you haven't said how you can be certain about that. You just say you are. That doesn't communicate much to someone.
"How are you certain?"
"I am certain."
>>76339202
>everyone knows God exists, and when someone denies the existence of God, your world view leads to absurdity
Amen.
>>76339413
I know God exists the same way everyone else knows
>>76339517
Which is...
>>76339561
Romans 1:18-22
>>76339150
>And that's *fine*. Let the scientism kooks be the intellectually dishonest ones.
I myself have come to *know* grander things than reason
And I have *reason* to suspect we may come to know (no emphasis added) them through means independent of it
Have you ever heard of sentimentalism?
>>76339635
Okay then, next question.
How do you know the Bible conveys absolute truth to you?
>>76339742
Because it is the word of God
>>76339728
I really really don't like sentimentalism.
>>76337246
I love to kneel and worship His perfect body with my mouth...
>>76339786
Okay, next one.
How do you know it's the Word of God, and not something else?
>>76339817
God will not be mocked
>>76339803
How so? I'd say it's quite esoteric
Even religiously esoteric
>>76339842
Because God has revealed it to us in away we can be certain of it.
Without it you can't know anything with absolute certainty
I'm not trying to start a shit flinging contest or anything, honestly, but can an atheist explain to me how they think the universe created itself out of nothing without a God? Any God, I don't even mean the Christian one. Even if you follow science, doesn't that go against the laws of thermodynamics? Wouldn't this happening be, if you'll allow me to use the term, a miracle?
Genuine question. I'm a devout Christian. Protestant to be specific. Wonder how to harmonize the idea that God created everyone equal, but different races score differently on IQ tests (even after multiple generations). I know that all people are God's children and he loves them all..but why does it seen like some are...lesser...than others?
>>76337246
fuck off with this kike bullshit already
cunt
>>76340067
There is only the Christian one, and Atheists are looking for God like a Robber looks for a Cop
>>76340159
Read the Tower of Babel
>>76340184
wew lad, try not to cut yourself from those edges
>>76340159
We are created in the image of God, but we are not created equal
>>76339971
I think engaging in sentimentalism is more often than not a detraction from the reality of our circumstances.
God's Will shall be done - have no fear or worries.
>>76340039
In which way has God revealed to us such that we can be certain of it?
>Without it you can't know anything with absolute certainty
We can know thoughts exist. That's a necessary truth.
>>76340184
Thanks for the bump, check out the links in the OP
>>76340327
The two approaches would be incommensurable wouldn't you say?
By which standard does one *know* which one is and is not the valid epistemology?
>>76337388
>Cuck, literally endorsing adultery
>Christian
Pick one.
I've been sick lately so I've been having to put off reading which is unfortunate since Goodwill has been a great way me to buy Christian books. Now I have to do some travel while sick. Well hopefully I won't need to go to the doctor again. I'll definitely need to pray tonight.
>>76340437
How can we know are thoughts have meaning if they are just the result of chemical reactions
>>76340526
Sentimentalism isn't an epistemology.
I only expressed a dislike of it. You could chalk that up to the preference expression of an incredibly dry person.
>>76340328
Matthew 6:19-21
19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
>>76340563
God's got your back, bro. Keep your head up.
>>76340596
I'll answer that, but please answer
>In which way has God revealed to us such that we can be certain of it?
We can't. And rather than "either thoughts have meaning or else they're the result of chemical reactions", I'd extend your question - and my answer - to being "how can we know whether our thoughts have meaning, if they are just a result of chemical reactions, *or anything else*".
Posting one of the best posts about Christianity in 4chan history.
>>76340725
An epistemology is a knowledge-based system, and who says our knowledge can only be ascertained through reason or through observation alone?
I would argue that an emotionally-neutral observation, nay, an emotionally-neutral reason is practically impossible
>>76339131
Reading: 1 Kings 17:1-6
Psalm: 121:1-8
Gospel: Matt 5:1-12
>>76340159
God created different nations for a reason
Blacks are the cursed offspring of Ham
>>76337474
You have it. All you struggle with is using it.
>>76341029
I don't know what you "know" through your emotions. Your emotions are themselves cognitively perceived and subsequently assessed via your reasoning.
I don't deny emotions as a motivator. I just think they should take a back seat, since them taking a front seat causes problems for Christian moral conduct.
>>76340923
In an atheistic world view, you can't, but in a worldview were God revealed things to people in a way they can be certain, then I can know thoughts have meaning.
>>76337629
Joseph didn't "let" anything happen. He did not have any authority, nor ability to stop prophecy. No one does.
>>76341331
>I don't deny emotions as a motivator. I just think they should take a back seat, since them taking a front seat causes problems for Christian moral conduct.
I'd say it's what adds beauty to it
And why *should* reason take a back seat? If it is by emotion that reason even have its value judged
>>76341030
Cheers lad
>>76341352
You're assuming God though. You're begging the question.
You say
>I know God exists the same way everyone else knows
which you clarify you can know because of the Bible.
You further clarify that you can know the Bible is true because it's the Word of God. And you can know it's the Word of God because God revealed it to us.
You're assuming God as part of your argument for the existence of God. It's begging the question.
>>76341595
>>76341331
>why should reason take a *front seat?
My bad m8
>>76340159
Equal of value does not mean equal of gift. You may as well ask why did God make men stronger than women or birds with wings that can fly and man with thumbs that can grasp.
We are all different, and we have different gifts to bring to God's body. The ear hears, the leg moves, the arm lifts, etc.
That on average the african does not bring as much intelligence to the table does not mean he is unequal or undeserving of charity, it merely means the best place is not (again on average) in the decision making arena.
Thus Rhodesia was a prosperous country of Africans led by Anglos, but improper ideas of liberation led to the Africans being in charge and now it is an international disaster.
>>76341595
I don't think so. I don't think emotive expression is beautiful. I hold it as somewhat crude - God gave us more reliable things to work with in our lives.
I don't think reason should take a back seat. I think emotion should.
>>76341617
I presuppose the existence of God, show me in your world view how you can know anything to be true
>>76341751
Ah right. That makes more sense in context. Emotions aren't responsible for making value judgements about reason.
>>76341814
>I don't think reason should take a back seat. I think emotion should.
I stand corrected >>76341751 :)
What say you then to my same question?
>>76341898
That's fine. I presuppose God too. I just wanted you to be honest about it.
Whether or not we assume God though, "thoughts exist" is necessarily true. Other than that I don't know anything to be true.
Have you even heard the good news bro?
>>76341918
But what is then? Whence cometh value if not from emotion?
I can't imagine
>>76342057
God.
>>76341814
>I don't think so. I don't think emotive expression is beautiful. I hold it as somewhat crude - God gave us more reliable things to work with in our lives.
I don't know if God values more epistemic reliability than the aesthetic of emotion
There are bits to it that are more Godly than the truth-value of statements
>>76340923
>In which way has God revealed to us such that we can be certain of it?
>We can't.
That question is dependent upon the level of certainty. I have had auditory phenomenon that consists of either hallucination such that I have not experienced outside of two occasions or contact with a being capable of communicating through my mind and emotions.
I can therefore say that I am certain God exists to the extent I am certain that I am not prone to invent sensory experience.
>>76342019
In an atheistic world view, they can't account for that. Evidence rarely leads people to Christ, but shattering world views does. We could talk about the complexity of the eye for hours, but that would be a waste of time
Look up presupp apologetics
>>76342107
Perhaps ultimately. But until it reaches Him, it goes, as a matter of fact, through the filter of our being
And the most essential and human part I would argue
>>76342266
There's only one kind of epistemic certainty. That which can't be doubted. There aren't levels of certainty - there's certainty or there isn't.
What you describe isn't certainty, it's just belief.
>>76342264
He values obeying Him. And He doesn't require an emotive disposition for doing so, so long as it's not sinful (rebellious, ungrateful, hateful, etc).
>>76342266
Read Romans 1
What is this 'Jesus died for our sins' and 'eternal sin' talk all about? I desperately want to learn it because it sounds very holy to talk about.
>>76342526
You must Repent and Put your trust in Jesus
>>76342296
All I do on this board is attack other people's views.
The issue is once you reach the bottom of the barrel, everyone's in the same place and just chooses whichever axioms fancy them.
>>76342597
Do you believe that if someone commits a crime that they should be punished?
These books have been highly influential in my life as a Christian. I highly recommend any and all of them to Christians or people still searching, especially those who take a more academic/intellectual approach to faith.
Warranted Christian Belief, by Alvin Plantinga
The Experience of God, by David Bentley Hart
Dare We Hope That All Men Be Saved?, by Hans Urs von Balthasar
Practice in Christianity, by Soren Kierkegaard
The Great Divorce, by C. S. Lewis
The Brothers Karamazov, by Fyodor Dostoevsky
I tried posting links to these books on Amazon, but it kept telling me my post looked like spam, so I guess no links for anybody.
>>76342526
He doesn't require a reliable epistemology for it either
But the very nature of our humanity, of the way He hath created us, requires that we feel as well
We'd be incomplete humans, incomplete creations, without it
And an absurdity before God
>>76342689
That is what you must do to be saved from damnation
>>76342397
God is omnipresent. The values He has are bound into reality itself. There's no travel time senpai.
>>76342817
Yes? I do that already. Have for 6 years now.
>>76337246
Atheists and faggots are destroying Europe. The bible even warned them...
>>76342597
http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-died-for-our-sins.html
Eternal sin? Do you mean the unpardonable sin of blaspheming against the Holy Spirit?
>>76342732
Yes. But tell me about all this bologne talk about this 'eternal sin' and whatnot.
>>76342863
Good, look up Sye ten Bruggencate Dustin Segers debate
>>76342883
Amen. The wages of sin is death.
How do I stop hating? Is it wrong to hate someone? There's a guy and every time I see his face I get angry and want to punch him. Even though we agree on most things, I just have the urge to punch him whenever I see his nasty ugly face
>>76342668
>The issue is once you reach the bottom of the barrel, everyone's in the same place and just chooses whichever axioms fancy them.
I'd argue we can't really chose them. Not in the moment
They're engraved in the core of our being. We can only just discover them at first before we begin to try and mould them
Although I'm not sure all of them can be changed without us going fucking insane
>>76343034
There is nothing wrong with hating
There is something wrong with believing that there is a fiery eternal place where you will fall if you don't follow the bizarre commandment of a failed 1st century jewish rebel
>>76342830
There is no time travel but there is logical progression :^)
The way His value reach our own is step-wise
>>76342744
Some great books you've got there m8, I'm a big fan of CS Lewis. Here are some more great books
>pic
>>76343190
>*values
>>76342773
I feel compelled to. And there's plenty of verses about rigorously committing oneself to God's word and not being a fool - I think it's foolish to not know what you're talking about in regard to truth propositions, so I think God does require it.
I'm not saying "you can't feel emotions", I'm saying don't let them lead your life, because you'll (likely) end up sinning by doing so because we have a sinful nature. Our reason can tie onto God's Law and we can avoid sin by adhering to it. If you had a perfect nature - the proverbial natural altruist - you wouldn't need to do so, but I doubt you or really anyone else is so.
>>76342958
The word used for sin is translated into English as missing the mark, we as human beings are born into a sinful nature, which not just do we sin, but we love our sin. God Gave his moral law that we should know what sin is, if you have broken any of the law, you will be guilty before God
>>76343034
Are you jealous/envious of this person?
>>76342883
Hungary is 55 % atheist, and is the most right-winged country in Europe
The one inviting the rapefugees are the christian churches and the christian democrats
>>76342999
Why?
>>76343085
I don't think that's the case. That would imply some kind of determinism, which I think is completely irreconcilable with Christian faith.
>>76343034
Yes, you need to pray and learn to love your fellow man, but you can also Seperation your self from them
>>76343333
It's a very interesting debate
>>76343190
I think they permeate all reality. Perfect correspondence. So no steps in my metaethics.
>>76343157
Why you hating though?
>>76343386
Predestination is biblical
Eph1
Romans 8
John 6:37
>>76343467
You ought to pose it as a suggestion then. Commands are for God senpai.
>>76343319
Not really, only because I don't have this problem others who are higher quality people than me, with them I'm inspired to be around, but this guy just gives off these smug vibes like he secretly wants me to hate him.
>>76343506
Because there is nothing wrong with wishing the destruction of those that threaten you and your family
>>76343157
>There is something wrong with believing that there is a fiery eternal place where you will fall if you don't follow the bizarre commandment of a failed 1st century jewish rebel
No, not really. I don't know the specifics of hell or what happens if you don't accept Christ but I'm sure it won't be pleasant. I don't know why anybody would want to find out. And there is something wrong with hating people, we should try to love each other, but there's nothing wrong with hating sin and the things that some people do, and choosing to actively avoid these people
>>76342416
>There aren't levels of certainty - there's certainty or there isn't.
>What you describe isn't certainty, it's just belief.
Conceded epistemological certainty. That is ultimately driven down to cogito. However, degrees of certainty exist and are useful once you dismiss nihilism.
That is, you can be as assured of God's existence and revelation as you can be of anything outside of your own thoughts. That is useful enough that calling it mere belief is a weak attack. Merely belief in the same sense that the car driving down the road you are standing in is merely belief.
>>76342560
Interestingly enough, that was one of my readings today.
>>76343576
Sounds more like he is a dislikeable person
That does not necessarily imply hatred, only that he is a dick
>>76343576
Can you avoid being around this person?
Thoughts on this bible.
>>76343553
It's irreconcilable. You can't judge something that never had a choice in a matter. There would be no moral action to judge. You wouldn't say a pebble moved by the tide was good or even for having been moved - it would just be a pebble. And a human would just be a pre-programmed sack of meat that could only ever have done what it did. There would be no moral character to humans at all if determinism is true.
>>76343656
The point of it is everyone knows God exists
>>76343279
>I'm not saying "you can't feel emotions", I'm saying don't let them lead your life
You can have the right (Bible-consistent) emotions lead your life
There is absolutely no contradiction in that. And I'd argue it's a necessity for our humanity to be complete
> the proverbial natural altruist - you wouldn't need to do so, but I doubt you or really anyone else is so.
You can learn it just as well. And it doesn't need to be perfect. We'd never need repentance if we had potential to live perfectly
>>76343326
Understandable considering that their god is a dune coon.
>>76343723
They have choice, but they will never choose God
>>76342744
Follow up post, briefly explaining each book.
>Warranted Christian Belief
Academic apologetics, defends the idea that being a Christian and believing its tenets is intellectually justified in most cases. Heavy epistemology. Pretty difficult read.
>The Experience of God
Part apologetics, part treatise on the waning spiritual sensibilities of the modern age. Attempts to describe an experience of God from three different directions. Very contemplative. Pretty difficult read.
>Dare We Hope That All Men Be Saved?
Examines whether or not hope for universal salvation is orthodox, written by a Catholic theologian. Challenging read but not super difficult.
>Practice in Christianity
Like a mix between a sermon and theology and poetry. Just like everything else Kierkegaard wrote. Good for reading to get inspired about Christianity. Somewhat difficult read.
>The Great Divorce
Presents a hypothetical picture of the afterlife. Contemplates the meaning of salvation and its extent. Pretty easy read, target audience includes the layman. Shortest book on my list.
>The Brothers Karamazov
Very lengthy Russian novel with very prominent religious (mostly Russian-Orthodox-Christian) themes. Entertaining, inspiring, strange; everything you want in a classic novel. Somewhat difficult read.
>>76343386
All I'm saying is that we have built within our nature the necessity to believe certain things
Lest our sanity be decimated
>>76343656
Degrees of belief*.
>That is, you can be as assured of God's existence and revelation as you can be of anything outside of your own thoughts
Yes. I agree with this. But it's important to understand that that "assurance" is actually 0. Our faith is our faith. We're not sure. We're making a choice to lay our convictions on Christ.
>>76343644
I don't know why anybody would believe in Hell to begin with
I may as well say that unless you let me fuck your wife, a giant elephant will rape you after death, and you would have to submit your wife to me for fear of finding out
Humans are not somehow independent entities from their actions
You can't separate a murderer from murder. You need immediate action to destroy it and stop him from hurting more people permanently
>>76337246
Daily reminder the concept of God has no valid scientifical evidence behind it, thus cannot be accepted in a modern, civilied society.
>>76343326
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Hungary
I don't think so, lot of undeclared according to this.
>>76343709
I haven't read it, but it's peculiar how he rearranged the order of books in it.
>>76337474
Take some drugs.
I mean, how else are you going to talk to an
imaginary friend in the sky?
>>76339887
God is a faggot.
>>76343706
Yeah, probably. I just don't feel right with the hateful feelings I have, and every now and then I run into him again (we share friends).
>>76343504
If they would permeate all reality (God's values at the human values-level) we'd never need to purposely conform to them
>>76343908
No God is a transcendent being, so you couldn't prove his existence with naturalistic methods
>>76343755
Sure. But not all your emotions are consistent with God's commandments. Nor do I think they feasibly can be. But reason *can*. Therefore, if one brings their reason in line with God, one can *always* lead their life by reason, where one *cannot* always lead their life by emotions and be consistent with God's commands.
>>76344003
You will stand before him one day, tell it to his face as you leap right into hell
>>76343813
They don't have a choice if they can only do what they're going to do, which has always been predetermined. Which means they can't possibly be morally culpable.
>>76343949
see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism#Europe
Defined in the classical sense, as disbelief in God, atheists get 55 % (vs 45 % of population that actually believe there is a god)
>>76344003
>>76344088
Tripfags should be instantly banned.
>>76343034
Hate and Love are interconnected. To find out why you hate that man, you must ask yourself what you love that has caused you to hate him. That could answer a lot of questions.
>>76339786
The Torah, prophets and psalms are gods word. The "New Testament" is Pauline doctrine pagan bullshit. The gospel of grace, the cross and "Jesus Christ" cannot and will not save anyone.
Yes, for you Christians who think the name Jesus has any merit, just know that there is no "j" in the Hebrew language. His name was actually Yahowsha. " Yah saves"
>>76343867
I can't think of a single thing I must necessarily believe to be sane. I can think of a single thing I must necessarily believe, but I need not believe it *to be sane*.
>>76344012
If you don't have any real connection to him, then don't let yourself be negatively affected by him. Consider it his problem, not yours. If he seems like he has ill will towards you, either talk to him about or pray for him :)
>>76344156
If God created them with a nature to do what they wanted to do, I.e Judas iscariot. They had a "choice"
>>76344088
>But reason *can*. Therefore, if one brings their reason in line with God, one can *always* lead their life by reason
In theory. But how could you yourself, or I, or anyone do it?
And how could we do it and know that we have matched God's reason?
>>76343034
hate his actions and his sin, have love and compassion for the person
>>76343835
>Brothers K
Best novel ever written
10/10 would read again and again
>>76344025
Sure we would, since our nature is sinful.
>>76343709
Probably fine for you average person to read. Obviously some liberties are taken with the translations, but if it preserves the essence of the message, then what's the harm if it gets some people to read the bible who wouldn't otherwise?
>>76343908
Why can't it be accepted?
The concept of God makes more sense logically then saying everything came from nothing
>>76344158
Canadians should accept their new muslim overlords too then.
>>76342908
Unpardonable sin.
>>76344222
Repent and put your name in Yashua then, or you will be guilty of your sin on judgement day
>>76344293
what is a person but his actions?
You are asking him to love an abstraction
The best argument against the existence of God
>pic related
How do you explain this Christfags?
What kind of God creates such inhuman abominations?
>>76344275
If someone's "nature" perfectly determines exactly what they're going to do at the outset of time, they didn't have a choice. They were literally a pebble in a tide pool.
>>76344365
Nice contrast you filthy tripfag. Take that crap to reddit.
>>76344234
>that the external world is real
>that other minds are real
>that you would ever posses *true* knowledge about these two above
Daily Reminder that Paul was a false apostle. I don't take this accusation lightly, but urge you all to decide for yourselves based on evidence, not "traditions". There are only 12 according to Revelations. Paul wasn't even in the running for the 12th spot to replace Judas. He was self-admittedly boastful, a liar, and one who sowed discord amongst the other followers of Christ. Revelations praises the Eastern churches for not following false prophets. The church at Ephesus refused Paul's teaching according to his letters. Do not be decieved by him. He may say a few nice things, but it is mixed in with poison.
Follow Jesus the Son of God, and the wisdom of the Old Testament, not Paul's babylonian, totalitarian system. God is the same, yesterday, today, and forever. Peace, brothers.
http://false-apostle-paul-archive.blogspot.com/2014/02/overview-of-major-arguments-against.html
http://false-apostle-paul-archive.blogspot.com/2015/08/paul-vs-jesus-list-of-contradictory-and.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC25O5LAKTU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8PZCA47hS8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9uTnSDEtY4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rjf8YCBkl4
>>76344128
If God ends up being real.
If i end up being wrong.
I shall take all my last strenght to punch that inmoral masss murderer in the face.
>>76344045
Not only you claim that YOUR God is real, you actually believe that people can look into different dimentions of existence far beyond human comprehension and write a non-contradictory compilation of books for you to somehow believe in.
Dude, you just WANT it to be real.
If you BELIEVED in God, you would murder homosexuals and hope you get killed so you could go to heaven.
>>76344157
Nice try
Only 20% actually state atheism
The rest stated they believe in God or some type of spirit/life force
1% unaccounted for
>>76344279
We can't know. We'd have to happen to get everything right and acted as if it were. And if it turned out we were right then great.
>>76337246
Hey, thanks for posting this! someone posted a while back a thread similar to this and posted a 2 hour long video on youtube on why christianity is true. Can someone please post it, it looks incredibly interesting
>>76344305
We wouldn't be sinful if God's values permeated our own (without our volition)
>>76342526
There is no word for obey in the Hebrew language. Torah, believe it or not does not mean law. It means teaching.
>>76344158
Idiots should be...
Reeducated.
So they can be smart.
>>76337246
I'm an Orthodox Jew, can I join the discussion?
I see you Peter, I can smell your intense ass pain with my hooked nose
>>76337388
Extramarital sex isn't allowed, therefore christians can't and don't want to practice cuckold
And i would rather be a cuck in your degenerate POV than a sinner in the POV of God.
>>76344377
The Holy Spirit convicts you, so if you blaspheme the Holy Spirit, then the Holy Spirit won't work in you, so you won't repent. Born Again Christians can't commit this sin
>>76344377
http://www.gotquestions.org/unpardonable-sin.html
http://www.gotquestions.org/blasphemy-Holy-Spirit.html
>>76344510
sounds like jews are still butthurt about based Paul
>>76344578
And are you content to go on that mere hunch just because emotion can't theoretically match it?
Christcucks, how do you get around the fact that Christianity is a big-tent religion that encourages race-mixing and non-unique cultures?
The greatest thing about Paganism is that it lets each tribe have it's own unique culture
>>76344541
God != some type of spirit/life force
If they meant they believed in God, then the option was explicitly laid there
Atheism only means disbelief in God, not disbelief in everything supernatural
>>76344522
>I shall take all my last strenght to punch that inmoral masss murderer in the face
No, you literally won't. You'll kneel before him. I'm sorry you have so much anger and I'm sure you have your reasons. I haven't had the greatest life either, but I hope you'll come to see the truth one day. That's all I can say
>>76344351
We do not know what originated the universe.
But that doesn´t mean you can come in an claim THE CHRISTIAN GOD did it.
I am an agnostic Atheist
God COULD exist, i´m not saying a GOD doesn´t exist.
The christian God is totally fake and stupid, tho.
>>76344441
Racist.
>>76344510
All of them were false apostles.
>>76341814
>I don't think reason should take a back seat. I think emotion should.
That's really not what being a Christian is about m8
>>76344522
You know God exists, and in your sinful nature, you hate him. You want to sin. The Gift of salvation is free if you Repent and put your trust in Jesus. If not you will go to hell
>>76344831
>Racist.
Implying the Abbos are fully human
>>76344831
I can claim that though, watch
The Christian God did it
>>76337474
Repent and humble yourself, then ask God to reveal himself to you.
I'm a Christian participating in Ramadan
>>76344485
I can doubt the external world and be sane. There's nothing actually that stressing about the idea. I can also think of myself as the only actual mind and likewise not really mind.
>>76343881
If you must quibble about vocabulary, degrees of confidence. Where 1 and 0 are certainties espitemologically.
That the assurance isn't logically 1 doesn't make it 0.
>>76344794
That doesn't seem right
Would you call a Hindu an atheist?
How bout Buddhism?
>>76344592
They do. We just try to reject them - that's our sinful wills in action.
>>76344779
by not caring
people generally stick to their own race even christians i.e black guy marries a black wife its still the most common thing
and culture isnt even a thing anymore in all of the US ........ u got macys and mcdonalds and walmart
its not like we got anything to lose
>I'm so sorry...
Daijoubu dayo
>Can I....?
Ii desu
>But what if...?
Shinpai shinaide
>But there is no chance that...
Nantoka naruyo
>But how...
Shinjite
>But....
Shinpai shinaide
>>76344938
fucking this
http://erectuswalksamongst.us/
only a blind person would claim otherwise
Nightly reminder
>>76344992
Heresy?
>>76344600
Hupakou.
Hupeiko.
>>76344917
a GOD? Maybe.
The christian God and Jesus? Please.
>>76344938
They are.
>>76344945
Let me rephrase that.
You cannot "confirm with scientific evidence" that the Christian God exists.
>>76344961
I hope he reveals himself to me.
So i can beat him up.
Well, of course, to the same degree i would beat up Voldemort or the Shadows from Momo or any other fictional villian.
>>76345180
that's not true
>>76345090
Hindus, no
But I am quite sure Buddhists are atheistic
The historical Buddha taught that believing in gods was not useful for those seeking to realize enlightenment.
>>76344411
Do you know what Yashua means? Do you understand how diluted your "faith" is. The Torah is the one and only word of God.
For those of you who don't know and discard the Torah as useless you should know that Yahowsha even said that the Torah will always exist throughout time until Yahowah returns on the day of Reconciliations in the year 2033. When the last person has made their decision, Yahowah will scribe the Torah on all of our hearts.
>>76345180
The world survived for 5 billion years without judaic cults
>>76344733
Why the Jews? I'm not denying Jesus as the Savior. He warned us of false prophets and how to spot them in his sermons. Because of Paul, many well meaning people are being led to hell.
>>76344740
Yep. I go on the "mere hunch" there is a loving, omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent God behind all aspects of creation, and that Christ is my Lord and Saviour. Why not that it's possible I can actually follow Him?
>>76345023
>I can doubt the external world and be sane
Sure, as long as there'd always be that possibility that it is, in fact, real
But what about denying all of it? And being confused about what is external and internal to your self?
I believe it's called schizophrenia
>There's nothing actually that stressing about the idea. I can also think of myself as the only actual mind and likewise not really mind.
You could keep a cool mind because you know you might actually be wrong (about other minds *not* existing)
But completely dismiss them, and you'll see what it is to be mad
>>76345224
You know he exists. And God is not a murderer. We are his creation, he can what ever he wants with us. The fact that he saves some is a mercy
>>76345224
I could really give a fuck about scientific evidence to be completely honest. I have my own experience and the similar testimonies of billions of people which has made it very clear that he exists
>>76344847
No, but I think it's what being an ideal Christian requires.
>>76344733
Paul was a pharisee jew
>>76345096
Then they don't permeate us forcefully, and we may have our own (both incompatible and Biblie-compatible) human-based values
Which I'd argue are derived ultimately from emotion (those human-based values)
>>76345276
Jesus is the only way to heaven
>>76345268
>But I am quite sure Buddhists are atheistic
And the jews are generous people.
>>76345065
You can't quantify an unknown correspondence though. It's why probability is absolutely silly to try to apply to propositional beliefs.
All you get if you have neither a 1 nor a 0 is a big fat question mark.
Why atheists get so butthurt is beyond me. It does not make sense. I don't like a lot of things but I don't spend hours of my day whining about it like they do. The more they whine the more I am convinced that God is real.
>>76345384
But could you ever follow such a Being in thought?
It's more intuitive to do so in emotion
>>76345180
what a quote
>>76345687
They know God exists, and when we talk about it, it reminds them of their impending Judgement
>>76345823
Its not even that hard to be saved. Its all so silly.
FUCKING CHRISTKEKS!!!!
YOU'RE RUINING THE WHITE RACE
REEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!
>>76345268
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism#Visualisations:_deities.2C_mandalas
Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but you seem to be contradicting yourself
Atheism doesn't just apply to one God it applies to pretty much anything of the sort
Unless your not talking about real atheism and just one form of it.
>>76345930
Read John 3 after verse 19
>>76345384
Btw, blasting this tune right now, epic shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykF4gmXnn7M
>>76345395
Yeah, I certainly allow for that. I tend to treat it as if it were, shockingly enough.
I could deny everything and still be sane. You can hold any belief and act however you like. I can hold "gingerbread will show me the path to utopia, all I need to do is eat it", and never even try to eat gingerbread. And I need not feel bad or good about that, or even really care.
You could look at the most upstanding person you think you know - the most rock-solid bed of apparent sanity - and they could be either a complete mess and you'd never know it or else actually reflective of what you see of them. And it they could have any beliefs or reasons as for why.
I would have to be incredibly dishonest to "dismiss" possibilities that are logically real.
>>76345425
Fuck that.
I have value.
If a God tried to take advantage of his powers and kill people for fun, that God is nothing more than a Sadistic Murderer that deserves to respect from me.
Only cowards live on their knees.
I shall die on my feet.
>>76345443
On an ancient book.
An Omnipotent, Omniscient, omnipresent God ´s way to communicate to it´s creation is a contradictory book without registered testimony and witnesses.
>>76346020
Very true, thanks.
>>76345642
I am basing my post on this
> Buddhism does not accept a theory of God, or a creator. According to Buddhism, one's own actions are the creator, ultimately. Some people say that, from a certain angle, Buddhism is not a religion but rather a science of mind. - Dalai Lama
I expect that the Dalai Lama will know more about buddhism than a random anon in 4chan
I could be wrong tho
>>76345347
what heresy is Paul supposed to have taught according to you exactly? And why was Peter absolutely fine with him and they were bros 4 life?
>>76346012
see
>>76346212
that sounds very atheistic to me
>>76346198
So you are your own God then?
Which book in the bible talk a lot about sin?
>>76345603
No of course not. We'd be the equivalent of robots to God if they did. Deterministic and unable to be moral.
We can have "values", but those "values" are irrelevant and ultimately don't matter. The only real values are God's. I'm not going to sit here and tell you we can't be wrong about what we care about - we very obviously can be.
>>76337246
Just weighing in here,
I have tried out other religions. I've been seeking the "correct" path since I was 13, so it was 14 years ago that I rejected the word of the gospels.
However, in my private moments, whenever things become too chaotic in my life or when I feel a dire need to pray, I find myself praying to Christ.
Anyone is welcome to chalk that up to childish attachment, but there is something more profound going on. Most recently, the last few years, I identified quite closely to the Norse pantheon. When I was younger and learning Latin, I attempted to "pray" to the Hellenist pantheon. I felt like a fraud because I am not Mediterranean. When I learned of the heathen roots of Englishmen, from whom I am descended, I took great pride in that, but I did not bother those gods with prayer, as the sagas and the Skaldic poetry teach that is it "better to never send than to overspend."
However I've had recent turmoil in my lift, and I surprised myself when I bent my head in prayer, and I prayed to Jesus Christ, and I felt better afterwards.
When I was a child I used to have entire conversations with God or Christ or something. I'd lay there and talk inside my head about what was right and what was wrong, and I felt a warm presence answer my questions.
Its considered irrational, but I would never forsake Jesus Christ or do anything sacrilegious, other than entertain the notion of super-human beings called the AEsir.
People can say what they want, and I give no heed to the old testament, but the words of Christ ring true, and always have.
>>76345934
I'm pretty sure that the prevelancy of race mixing is more common or at least the same between promiscuous atheists and Christians. Just because you acknowledge somebody as a fellow human doesn't mean you're going to have sex with them or marry them. This just seems like another baseless accusation to hurl at Christianity
>>76346396
Romans chapters 1-3
1corinthians 6
>>76346186
You're avoiding ought-based beliefs
What if you believed you ought to have ate that gingerbread? That you ought to have reached utopia?
No sane man could believe such a something and not do it if he have the chance
>I would have to be incredibly dishonest to "dismiss" possibilities that are logically real.
Unless you stopped caring about logic
>>76340953
atheist? i say that because you're here to troll right? why else would you make a troll post if you arent an atheist troll?
>>76346504
He is probably gonna pull the pagan card
>>76346198
It's more than an ancient book. God is alive. Learn to accept it and deal with it, or don't
>>76345723
Yes absolutely.
It's not more intuitive for me - I dislike emotions and find them unreliable and clunky.
I have something of an aesthetic sense for a narrative containing emotive characters, but that's separate from how I think Christ is best followed.
>>76346470
Probably because ever since a kid you've been in contact with Jesus Christ/Christianity.
Other cultures would pray to their own God.
>>76346470
Once you Repent ( ask God for a changed mind) and you put your trust in Jesus you will be saved from Gods Righteous Judgement
>>76346133
That's probably my favorite on that album - good taste bong.
>>76346470
Pretty sure that if you had been born islamic you would feel the same about allah
that is simply imprinting
>>76346383
Not my own God, but my own self.
I can do wathever i can and want.
I have inifnite possibilities.
Well, of couse, society has rules and some possibilities are limited by said rules and conduct.
I can rob a bank, because i can and want to.
but the Cop will arrest me and shoot me down, because HE can and has to.
What is Good? What is evil?
That´s up to us to decide.
>>76346272
2 Peter wasn't written by Peter. Check out the links and videos in my first post. Open your heart. First it needs to be established whether or not he was legit in the first place.
>>76346212
The Dalai Lama is the pope of Tibetan Buddhism.
It is not the oldest form of Buddhism nor is it the most popular.
>>76346676
God is not dead.
He was never alive in the first place.
>>76346805
Is it always wrong to torture babies for pure pleasure?
>>76346794
That is simply a genetic fallacy
>>76346458
Well I'd argue that the very way we hold what we consider values, any values, regardless of whether or not they are *in fact* valuable, is chiefly and essentially by emotion
>>76346470
I feel that presence when I pray too. When I finish and say amen, I feel something like like a comforting wave wash over me. Thanks for sharing
>>76346608
Not at all. "Do not steal" is an ought-based belief. God says we ought not steal. And so it is the case that we ought not steal.
I can believe I ought or ought not do something but not act on those oughts - I, and I imagine everyone else, do so all the time.
I think "I ought to mow the lawn", but I don't always do so. You can say oughts like that aren't very strong, but no oughts actually *need*, psychologically, to compel someone in any specific degree.
>Unless you stopped caring about logic
Sure. But then I couldn't be honest or dishonest - I would just be entirely incoherent.
>>76346908
He was always alive, and always will be
You sure do seem to hate something a lot that "doesn't exist"
>>76339786
False, bud.
Christ is the Word of God, the Bible isn't.
>>76346986
or the ethical part of your brain?
>>76346696
>Yes absolutely.
How?
>It's not more intuitive for me - I dislike emotions and find them unreliable and clunky.
>I have something of an aesthetic sense for a narrative containing emotive characters, but that's separate from how I think Christ is best followed.
Like I said, there is beauty in emotion. In the pure joy in believing and following God
>>76347152
The Bible is God Breathed
>>76346932
If a person indetifies that as good, then it is good for them.
But they have to face the penalties that come from defying the law of the area they live in.
If murder is illegal in that place, then the murderer of said babies should be arrested.
From my perspective, that person has no right to murder innocents for wathever pleasure it might give him.
Not evil, but inmoral and psychologically unstable.
>>76346762
Good shit nigger
>>76346986
I consider "Do not use force against an evil man" incredibly counter to my and most people's emotions, yet I value adhering to that proposition because I reason it corresponds to "rightness" in the world, which I hold as an essential value outside my own determination.
>>76346965
no it isn't
you don't understand what a genetic fallacy is
>>76346861
well it does come to my point, that atheism simply involves denial of god, it does not have other spiritualistic implications
>>76346840
>2 Peter wasn't written by Peter
According to who? Why would all church fathers, all churches, even protestant ones, acknowledge it as true then? Do you think you know more than them why exactly?
>Open your heart
so you literally cannot even count any heresy supposedly pushed forward by Paul. Also why would the rest of the apostolic churches in different parts of the world, who didn't communicate with each other, come up with a fundamentally same doctrine if Paul hijacked Western Christianity?
>>76347274
So if a Government wants to Genocide a portion of its people, i.e. Pol Pot that's alright?
>>76347080
muslims aren't even on the list
>>76347115
I hate him as a fictional character.
If said character is inmoral and a mass murderer, he is easly dislikeable.
>>76347274
Is it always wrong in your opinion?
>>76337246
>Try to be polite
>>76344831
>Racist.
fuck you tacokike. you belong in the same oven as these Christcucks.
>>76347227
It's more that nothing really moves without them, so there's not much to talk about, and I like talking. They're essential to humans, but they're also what's most flawed about them.
>How?
Aren't I doing it right now? I will myself to follow the commands of my God. Or am I miss-reading the question?
>>76347505
I highly doubt you would passionately hate any other "fictional character" this much even if people claimed that chacter existed
>>76339842
Because the Holy Spirit reveals it to you if you read the Word with a sincere heart to seek God.
>>76347492
No, because that desicion violates international law.
And, i do not want to be killed by them if i am in that portion of people.
And, since i know that portion of people are getting killed against their will just like i would, in that scenario, what the government is going to do is inmoral and illegal.
>>76347893
So if the whole world made this decision, then it would be alright?
>>76347092
>Not at all. "Do not steal" is an ought-based belief. God says we ought not steal. And so it is the case that we ought not steal.
>I can believe I ought or ought not do something but not act on those oughts - I, and I imagine everyone else, do so all the time.
That's if you didn't sincerely believed them, or cared enough to follow them
Which could be due to an inner lack of valuation and/ or an external mitigating circumstance
>You can say oughts like that aren't very strong, but no oughts actually *need*, psychologically, to compel someone in any specific degree.
I'd say oughts do inherently compel someone in a specific degree. It's just how much all other factors impact on this tendency
>Sure. But then I couldn't be honest or dishonest - I would just be entirely incoherent.
Then you'd just have to stop caring about honesty as well
>>76346212
This is western buddhist aka atheist bullshit or subhuman illerate western degenerate buddhism
The actual buddhist texts speak a lot about hell, demons, gods including Brahmā
the creator of the universe in hinduism, etc
>>76347368
Paul's heresy is a long topic, and discussed in detail in the links. The videos give a good overview.
And yes, I'm saying the "Church" is built on a false foundation. Protestant denominations have just as much to lose if the truth about Paul is out in the open.
>>76347846
People have told me that who have turned out, at least by all appearances, to not really be Christians. The Holy Spirit gives me faith - it doesn't (necessarily) give me knowledge.
>>76347368
Jesus is the cornerstone who the builders (of the church) rejected.
>>76345180
Papist get out REEEEEEEEEEE
>>76347571
It is not wrong to the person doing it, that´s for sure.
>>76347607
Fuck you.
>>76347720
If a character in a novel manipulated, tortures, insults, turns people into salt and floods every other character without any logical reason, specially if you liked those characters beforehand.
>>76348264
So morality is kinda like I like chocolate and you like vanilla then
>>76345677
I'd debate the precision we can reach.
I'd also argue meaningfulness of a reality we do not experience. Of what difference is it if the truck in the road is part of a system I am in, say a simulation, or a physical part of the only reality. Both practically, if I am hit the situation for my existence is the same, and philosophically in that the reality I experience is my reality. If I am in a simulation then the simulation is my reality.
>>76347325
Doesn't this very "rightness" compel you to feel an emotion even greater than the one instinctively asking you for retribution?
It very often does me, when my heart is still and I can listen to it
>>76348120
name one heresy. Just one. It can't be that hard, right?
>>76348237
The matter has nothing to do with Paul, so even if you believe it is not right, why blame him?
>>76348238
>being mad because you don't have based Holy Mass
lmao
hey, do you know what is one big similarity between all religions, they worship the devil. I also have something that might get this thread 404.
>>76348434
>being smug and vindictive and wrong
All you need is Jesus lad. It's simple
>>76348155
I didn't say the Holy Spirit gives you faith. Rather, it is a spiritual confirmation of something you have a basis of hope already in. It's not like entirety of the aspect of faith is from the Holy Spirit, that wouldn't really be free will then.
>>76348434
>Eating meat sacrificed to idols, and abolishing the law (funny that parallels the very beginning of the bible where right after God gives the rule to Adam and Eve, the snake tells them not to listen)
>his "conversion" which he gave three contradicting accounts of
>why blame him
Imo, he was a trojan horse from the beginning
>>76348741
Libertarian free will is not really biblical
>>76348656
>has no arguments
>reverts to gratuitous personal attacks
lmao
>being smug and vindictive and wrong
I haven't been any of these things
>>76348481
And what would that be?
>>76348067
>I'd say oughts do inherently compel someone in a specific degree. It's just how much all other factors impact on this tendency
There would have to be something like a deterministic formula if that were actually the case. "If [Person] Y believes [Ought Proposition] X, they will be compelled to Z degree given M circumstances to obey/achieve the realization of X".
Which is psychological determinism - if you know everything about the system (in this case the person's values, ideas, and preferences in conjunction with what they will experience) you can get a specific output. And you would get that output every time ceteris paribus.
I think that can't be the case due to how irreconcilable deterministic beliefs are with Biblical judgement.
Yeah. I suppose if I didn't care about things I could, indeed, think whatever. But I don't know at what point someone is *actually* insane. I can think of outrageous states of human affairs in which I would still not categorize a person as being insane.
>>76347716
>It's more that nothing really moves without them, so there's not much to talk about, and I like talking. They're essential to humans, but they're also what's most flawed about them.
Proportionately and relatively flawed (although I'm gonna have to ask you to defined flawed as well), but there is more humanity in certain emotions than there is in any conceivable epistemology
>Aren't I doing it right now? I will myself to follow the commands of my God.
By definition. But how could we even theoretically follow the knowledge of such a being as God?
>>76348861
Lol, okay. Have fun with that. Why do you need more than Jesus?
>>76348830
>>Eating meat sacrificed to idols
What meat sacrified to idols do christians eat? I can't think of any example
>abolishing the law
The law wasn't abolished, it was fulfilled by Jesus. What was unclean, was made unclean. Without Jesus it stays unclean. That's why it actually makes sense for Jews and Muslims to have kosher and halal. You complain that I called you a jew and then you advocate for judaizing doctrines. If you believe these things why don't you move to Israel and become a messianic jew?
>>76349231
keep strawmanning
>>76348429
You'd debate what you're actually dealing with is a question mark?
Could you establish a precise degree of confidence toward a proposition for me here as a thought experiment?
>Both practically, if I am hit the situation for my existence is the same
Not necessarily. The truck and your body need not behave the same in either situation.
>>76348853
I'm not sure what 'libertarian free will' is, but you literally have to believe in free will if you read the Bible. God establishes it throughout the Bible, one of the top of my head is near the beginning of the book of Ezekiel.
The catholic idea that God predestines people to heaven or hell based on some misinterpreted verse in the New Testament is absurd.
>>76349306
How am I straw manning? I just asked you a simple question...you don't have to answer if you don't want
>>76348830
You can eat meat as such, you are still forbidden ftom participating in Satanism. By saying that the meat, which has been consecrated to whoever, is actually nothing but a snack, you are disrespecting Satan, just like if Sarah Silverman marketed a wine-flavored snack food based on communion wafers.
>>76349306
Read the links. They explain it better than I can. And no, I'm not calling for "judaized" doctrine. The religion of the Pharisees with the Talmud, and their bastardized rituals, is obviously very false. The Jews are the Edomites of old.
>>76349412
Eph 1
Romans 8:28-
John 10
John 6:37
Romans 9
Not one verse these are the ones off the top of my head
>>76348432
I see what you're getting at there. My "preference" as it were is in fact to follow what I believe is "correct" in not lashing out - otherwise you'd think I wouldn't restrain myself. Is that emotive in character? A preference structure? I think part of it is, but again I don't think it's the part we ought to glorify. Rather I think it's the part I think we should be very wary of.
>>76349926
New
>>76348434
>On the time of the coming of the Lord:
Paul says:
Rom.13
[12] the night is far gone, the day is at hand.
Jesus says:
Luke.21
[8] Take heed that you are not led astray; for many will come in my name,
saying, . . . `The time is at hand!' Do not go after them.
>On whom God has mercy:
Paul says:
Rom.9
[15] For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
[16] So it depends not upon man's will or exertion, but upon God's mercy.
[18] So then he has mercy upon whomever he wills, and he hardens the heart of whomever he wills.
Jesus says:
Matt.5
[7] Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.
>On forgiveness of trespasses:
Paul says:
Eph.1
[7] In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his graceRom.4
[25] who was put to death for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
Jesus says:
Matt.6
[14] For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you;
[15] but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
>On being justified:
Paul says:
Rom.3
[24] they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,
[28] For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law.
Rom.5
[9] Since, therefore, we are now justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
Jesus says:
Matt.12
[37] for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.
>>76349771
You have to take the verse into consideration saying that no part of the Word of God is of private interpretation and must be taken into account of all the Scriptures.
God establishes that there is free will in the Old Testament in the prophetic Scriptures, so these verses obviously cannot be correctly interpreted to go against that.
>>76349472
does Jesus cook your toast in the morning or do you use a toaster? If you say toaster then it's not true that you only need Jesus.
Not saying that Jesus is not what you need for your salvation, but your one-line is stupid in the way it is constructed and it insults intelligence.
>>76349749
you still have not provided a single heresy that Paul pushed. "abolishing the law" is not a heresy at all. I am not going to watch videos that leave you with not even a shred of a heresy to claim as Paul's doctrine.
>>76349104
>There would have to be something like a deterministic formula if that were actually the case. "If [Person] Y believes [Ought Proposition] X, they will be compelled to Z degree given M circumstances to obey/achieve the realization of X".
It's a matter of fact, but further than that Z degree I'd argue that our *pure* volition intervenes
There are some interesting tests here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_free_will#The_Libet_experiment
>Which is psychological determinism
Which can function with free will (cf. compatibilism)
>But I don't know at what point someone is *actually* insane. I can think of outrageous states of human affairs in which I would still not categorize a person as being insane.
At the point where random intense emotions take over, or you become catatonic
>>76348741
I didn't imply you did - I implied you said it gave knowledge. Which I think is wrong.
I will reword though, since I think that's more right than what I said. I don't think the Holy Spirit *gives* one faith, I think the Holy Spirit *comes* with faith and in an important way characterizes and reinforces it.
>>76350264
????
Those quotes are not contradictory at all. lmao
>>76348853
Calvinist please. You can't hold a pebble morally responsible for being moved by a tide. A free will is required for morally culpability and judgment.
>>76350101
>I think part of it is, but again I don't think it's the part we ought to glorify. Rather I think it's the part I think we should be very wary of.
Why so? It's the very part that can most aptly nullify our automated instincts
>>76350275
Can you show me this?
uh... islam is just christianity part 2
why don't you follow the teachings of mohammed
>>76350285
>On the cost of eternal life:
Paul says:
Rom.6
[23] For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Jesus says:
Matt.19
[29] And every one who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands, for my name's sake, will receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.Luke.14
[28] For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it?[33] So therefore, whoever of you does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple.
>On what is honorable among men:
Paul says:
2Cor.8
[21] for we aim at what is honorable not only in the Lord's sight but also in the sight of men.Rom.12
[17] Repay no one evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all men.Rom.14
[18] he who thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.1Cor.10
[33] just as I try to please all men in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved.
Jesus says:
Luke.16
[15] But he said to them, You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts; for what is exaltedamong men is an abomination in the sight of God.Luke.6
[26] Woe to you, when all men speak well of you, for so their fathers did to the false prophets.
>On Dying:
Paul says:
I Corinthians 15
31: I protest, brethren, by my pride in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die every day!
Jesus says:
John 11
26: and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die.
>On the basis of judgment:
Paul says:
Rom.2
[12] All who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.
Jesus says:
John.12
[48] He who rejects me and does not receive my sayings has a judge; the word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.
>>76350285
I don't need toasters though :^)
Your argument makes no fucking sense considering you said we need mass more than we need the sun lol
Like I said, have fun doing whatever it is you're doing
>>76350690
nullifies*
>>76348002
No, because i do not want to be killed for no reason.
Because this is the only life i have.
And there are things i want to do.
>>76349394
I said it is more precise than a question mark.
Say your wealthy friend has lent you small sums of money several times, and has stated that if you need money to ask him. You do so ask, and he says yes, tomorrow he will give you the money.
Your argument says that I have somewhere between zero assurance and a complete unknown assurance that I will get the money. I would suggest that is not a reasonable understanding. Given the information I can say the limited chance that your friend is lying, incapable, and/or will perish and therefore deny you the money is negligible and under .10 for instance. Leaving me a very conservative .9 confidence.
>>76348403
Yes.
Morality isn´t real
Laws are.
>>76349158
Our sinful nature is manifest in our emotions. It's not manifest in our ability to reason. That's how I'd characterize why they're flawed.
I think what "characterizes" our humanity is our will, which is influenced by emotions - whether negatively or positively - but not governed by them. The defining aspect of our humanity is our ability to think and make choices. So I would disagree with that assessment, and say there's more humanity in our ability to reason while still maintaining emotions are grudgingly essential.
>>76350101
Nigger when this thread archives I have to go. It's 4 o'clock in the morning here :^|
>>76350529
>On the commandments and eternal life:
Paul says:
Rom.7
[9] I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died;
[10] the very commandment which promised life proved to be death to me.
Jesus says:
Matt.19
[17] And he said to him, Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.
>On the destiny of the Law and the Prophets:
Paul says:
Rom.10
[4] For Christ is the end of the law, that every one who has faith may be justified.
Jesus says:
Matt.5
[17] Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.
[18] For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.
>On the number and identity of leaders:
Paul says:
1Cor.4
[15] For though you have countless leaders in Christ . . ..
Jesus says:
Matt.23
[10] Neither be called leaders, for you have one leader, the Christ.
>On sacrifices to God:
Paul says:
1Cor.5
[7] For Christ, our paschal lamb, has been sacrificed.Eph.5
[2] And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
Jesus says:
Matt.9
[13] Go and learn what this means, `I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.'
>On whom God has mercy:
Paul says:
Rom.9
[15] For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
[16] So it depends not upon man's will or exertion, but upon God's mercy.
[18] So then he has mercy upon whomever he wills, and he hardens the heart of whomever he wills.
Jesus says:
Matt.5
[7] Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.
>>76350769
still no contradictions. You are reading too much into them based on your bias and seeing division where there's none.
>>76350833
you hate the mass because you don't have it and because you don't understand its importance. Protties are still waiting for the 1000 years of Jesus on earth and they don't understand that they are in them, Jesus is with us in the eucharist
>>76349158
>But how could we even theoretically follow the knowledge of such a being as God?
Oh, do you mean "follow" as in be able to keep pace with perfect omniscience? I don't think we can or will, no.
>>76346619
Hello? How was that a "troll post"?
>>76350632
God can do whatever he wants
>>76349412
Is predestination a Catholic idea? I always knew that It was a Calvinist one
>>76351095
That's not what he said at all
>>76351109
>Our sinful nature is manifest in our emotions. It's not manifest in our ability to reason. That's how I'd characterize why they're flawed.
Then how do you explain this? - 1 Corinthians 8:1
>>76350967
Why should they care? If it helps them pass on their genes then horayy with them and to hell with you
>>76351399
you are right, I don't know that other anon was smoking, it's a calvinist idea not a catholic one
>>76350370
I'm very much an anti-compatibilist. What they call free will I very much don't.
I've never experienced such, and don't think I ever will, given I've been through some things other people would deem "intensely traumatic" and didn't phase me. But anything not impossible is possible I suppose.
>>76351095
Laws are conceptual
>>76351361
I agree. I don't think He wants pebbles. He already has plenty of them. We're a bit different.
>>76351245
"Follow" as even being able to grasp a scintilla of it
>>76351399
I'm a reformed Baptist(Calvinist)
>>76350877
>>76350690
They *are* our "instincts" though. Our reason is much better equipped to avoid base impulses than the very *source* of those impulses.
>>76351361
Then he deserves no praise.
>>76351454
I could find killing a pedophile "good", while you could find it to be "wrong".
That´s pretty much it.
>>76351551
I am no Superhero to fight off the entire planet, ya know?
But i would think it´s BAD for me to get hunted by the entire world.
>>76351231
>Deuteronomy 13:1-5 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.
>Matthew 16:6 "Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."
>Matthew 24:24 "For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect."
>>76351701
God created us with choice, but because of original sin, we will always rebel against him without his intervention
>>76351617
Maybe not you, but by the way you're talking and thinking I wouldn't classify you as typical now would you? :^)
>>76351849
I don't believe there's anything instinctual about the kind of feelings Christianity ushers tbqhwym9
>>76351072
I don't know how you could instantiate any level of precision better than a question mark.
>Your argument says that I have somewhere between zero assurance and a complete unknown assurance that I will get the money.
Yes. That's the case. There is no law of nature that gives you any assurance that the friend will in fact lend that money tomorrow.
I would say you have no more reason to believe he will lend you the money tomorrow than that he won't.
I'm taking the problem of induction more seriously, I think, than you might want to.
>>76351174
No problem senpai. Good talkin'.
>>76351621
They are real in the sense that laws are written limitations on the area you live in.
>>76351908
so what heresy is this pointing to? How does it connect to Paul?
Paul converted from being a Pharisee to Christianity, like most other jews apart from the apostles. That verse is saying to be wary of those who didn't convert, not of those who did. If you take that verse literally, no jew would have ever been accepted as a convert at all since the beginning.
You literally cherrypick bible verses and create a fan-fiction on top of it that has no grounds in reality.
>>76351872
That's just your sin courrupted opinion. I will praise God because I was a sinner deserving of Hell, but because of his mecy, he saved me, not because of something I did, but according to his will
>>76351872
But you can't say it is wrong
>>76340184
Sorry but kinda agree with this.
Cristianity advocates submissive dependancy on external support and dogmatic absolute certainties through orders/threats, rather than confident belief in personal potential and strive for knowledge/understanding. Nearly all christians dismiss other viewpoints instead of trying to understand and educate. Most religions fail at talking out often very simple differences.in basically meaningless things.
>>76351465
Paul wanting to sound convincing. I don't blame him - people prefer hearing "gnosis" to something weaker.
>>76352302
But I'm not required to follow them, nor are people obligated to enforce them
>>76351109
>I think what "characterizes" our humanity is our will, which is influenced by emotions - whether negatively or positively - but not governed by them. The defining aspect of our humanity is our ability to think and make choices. So I would disagree with that assessment, and say there's more humanity in our ability to reason while still maintaining emotions are grudgingly essential.
But you'd be barren without emotions mate. You'd just be a thinking machine (that somehow managed to develop volition)
There is no beauty in being empty of them
None that a non-philosopher could see, and none that anyone could feel
>>76352331
He didn't convert! He gave three contradictory accounts of his "come to Jesus" moment on the road to Damascus! He didn't get the word from the apostles, but rather "divine revelation from the voice of Jesus". I call bullshit.
>>76352598
Atheism depends on assuming your reasoning is valid and stealing from my world view
>>76351754
Well, God knows "there are thoughts", and so do we. So there's a start!
In all seriousness I don't think we can expect to know all that God knows. I don't think that's reasonable.
>>76352785
He was converted by the Holy Spirit as all Christians are
>>76352275
Good talking m10
>>76352019
You don't actually believe in choice though. You can use that word, but if you believe in predestination it really doesn't mean to you what it means to anyone else.
>>76352371
>implying you cannot lose salvation
>>76352785
They're not contradictory at all. If he was preaching error, he would have been rebuked by the other apostles. Instead, he and Peter were bros 4 life.
So now you become skeptic that God may reveal himself to us through visions or apparitions? It has happened throughout history in the Church and it always gave birth to sincere conversions. This jew for example was converted to Catholicism and founded a religious congregation for the conversion of Jews to the Catholic faith. He was engaged but gave up marriage and became a priest instead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie-Alphonse_Ratisbonne
>>76352951
Did Judas choose to betray Jesus or was it God's Plan
>>76352074
I don't think anyone is typical, so I've got no point of reference senpai.
>>76352228
I conflate "instincts" and "emotions". Mostly because I don't think they're really separable.
>>76349926
New
>>76352829
But could we even get meaningfully close to Him through reason?
Or would we just be fooling ourselves?
>>76353121
John 10:28
John 6:37
>>76352723
Yeah. Hence "grudgingly essential".
