VENEZUELA GENERAL /VG/ - SOON EDITION
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>Venezuela president Nicolás Maduro declares state of emergency
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/14/venezuela-maduro-emergency-powers
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/15/americas/venezuela-slide-into-crisis/
>Venezuela’s right-wing opposition coalition, the Democratic Unity Roundtable (MUD), turned over 1.8 million signatures in support of a recall referendum against President Nicolas Maduro to the National Electoral Council (CNE) on Monday.
http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/11960
>Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro urged supporters to launch a general strike and "rebellion" if the opposition succeeds in ousting him from office in a referendum.
http://www.dailysabah.com/americas/2016/05/02/venezuelas-maduro-calls-for-rebellion-if-opposition-ousts-him-in-referendum
>Dying Infants and No Medicine: Inside Venezuela’s Failing Hospitals
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/16/world/americas/dying-infants-and-no-medicine-inside-venezuelas-failing-hospitals.html?_r=0
>Mobs in Venezuela have stolen flour, chicken and even underwear this week as looting increases across the crisis-hit OPEC nation where many basic products have run short.
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/13/venezuela-looters-target-chicken-flour-amid-worsening-shortages.html
>Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro announced undefined “military exercises” for the embattled nation, just a day after pledging to prolong his government’s special emergency powers.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-14/venezuela-plans-army-exercises-as-maduro-seeks-to-prolong-powers
>The United States is increasingly concerned about the potential for an economic and political meltdown in Venezuela, spurred by fears of a debt default, growing street protests and deterioration of its oil sector, U.S. intelligence officials said on Friday.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-usa-idUSKCN0Y42MT
>Venezuela's president threatens to take over idle factories and jail their owners following a decree of emergency powers this week
http://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2016-05-14/maduro-threatens-to-seize-idle-venezuela-plants-jail-owners
http://www.reuters.com/video/2016/05/15/maduro-threatens-takeover-of-private-com?videoId=368503990
http://www.dw.com/en/venezuelas-maduro-sees-conspiracy-of-the-bourgeoisie-in-factory-shut-downs/a-19258912
>Pope Francis has sent a letter to President Nicolas Maduro urging him to work to solve the country’s problems.
http://www.cruxnow.com/church/2016/05/02/pope-writes-maduro-to-demand-action-on-venezuelas-woes/
>Opinion: Bolivarian socialism is quite obviously the worst economic policy anyone has tried to impose on a country since Robert Mugabe decided to take Zimbabwe back to the Stone Age.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/05/14/congratulations-to-bolivarian-socialism-at-least-venezuela-hasnt-run-out-of-tear-gas-yet/#6bede92e450a
>South America’s first high-speed train, powered by Chinese technology, was supposed to crisscross Venezuela to bring development to its backwater plains in a model of socialist fraternity. Now all but abandoned, it has become a symbol of economic collapse — and of a strategic relationship gone adrift.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/05/15/business/chinese-bullet-train-project-in-venezuela-stalls-as-alliance-derails/#.Vzi5B5ErKM8
>Venezuela accuses US of plotting coup as Washington warns of 'imminent collapse'
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/venezuela-accuses-us-of-plotting-coup-as-washington-warns-of-imminent-collapse-a7029386.html
>Venezuela accuses US of plotting coup as Washington warns of 'imminent collapse'
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/venezuela-accuses-us-of-plotting-coup-as-washington-warns-of-imminent-collapse-a7029386.html
>"Washington is activating measures at the request of Venezuela's fascist right, who are emboldened by the coup in Brazil," Maduro said during a Friday night broadcast on state television.
https://www.rt.com/news/343010-venezuela-emergency-us-plots/
>Venezuela's socialist government on Thursday condemned the impeachment of Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff as a U.S.-inspired mockery of popular will and a menace to Latin America's now-diminishing leftist bloc.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-brazil-politics-venezuela-idUSKCN0Y32U5
From Venezuela:
http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Nicolas-Maduro-Declares-Emergency-to-Face-Foreign-Intervention-20160514-0002.html
http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Behind-the-Food-Lines-in-Venezuela-20160514-0035.html
http://www.vtv.gob.ve/
http://www.tves.gob.ve/
http://www.vive.gob.ve/
oil price:
http://www.bloomberg.com/energy
http://www.nasdaq.com/markets/crude-oil.aspx
http://oilprice.com/
>>74124772
The wonders of socialism.
First for: Brazil please post pictures of sister!
>>74124772
h-happening?
>>74124849
Then yeah you need a pill for excessive sweating.
http://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/hyperhidrosis-treatment-11
>>74124772
>Latin America is a shithole
>75% of Latin American countries have left-wing governments with shitty Keynesian policies
>most, if not all, had a left-wing dictatorship at some point
>least shitty countries are centre or right-wing
>2015+1
>keynesianism
>socialism
>good
>>74124687
To be fair, it's probably a family thing because I don't like foreigners either. The two girls I got (one American and one British) were to help a friend, it's a long story.
The only things I like from other countries are the literature, Japanese games and Switzerland.
>>74124910
No.
>>74125084
Latin America is hot as fuck, as in skin-cancer hot, are you stupid or pretending to be stupid?
>>74125216
>No.
Then how about an example pic of someone she kinda looks like.
Nothing will happen.
Goodnight.
have any anons here been to uruguay? Does it have a bright future? have heard;
>population values education
>mostly of european decent
>stable and high standard of living
>>74125317
Like this, but with green eyes and less forehead.
>>74125340
Hope you get ride of Maduro without a Civil War senpai
REAL SOCIALISM HAS NEVER BEEN TRIED
>>74125480
And fat. That cow is lazy as fuck.
>>74125456
>>74125480
Thank you Brazil!
There is no bright future for us.
Only Death and suffering
Staged coup when
>>74125669
>>74125340
>Nothing will happen.
>Goodnight.
Mass starvation when?
Also Venezuelans who inmigrate to the US tend to be nice people. Panama has shit tier people. And We have the best spanish so fuck off
>>74125729
Is actually happening, 680% inflation would dry any country to death in ours times. Allende got 570%, Maduro have a new record and is going 1000%+ at the end of the year.
For the sake of the Venezuelan people, I Hope there will be free helicopter rides for the marxists
>>74125639
Be safe Venezuela
>>74124772
Socialism: Not even once
>>74125877
But c-cybersyn would totally work
>>74125877
>1000%
>>74125859
>We have the best spanish
>chamo marico no joda pero que ladilla chamo mamawebo ejejejeej
>>74125639
Strengh, never give up. We also believed that it was impossible to take Jewma out. I know your hole is deeper, but the will of the people must prevail.
>>74126212
>We have the best spanish
Why are you arguing who has the better Spanish?
I don't argue with the English. We Americans just change their words and watch them suffer!
>>74126212
>Fucking Panamá criticising our spanish.
Fug :DD
Awwoo Id
>>74126212
>>74126409
Chile have the best spanish :^)
cannibalism when?
>>74126484
What're you faggots on about,Brazil clearly has the best Spanish
>>74125639
join a rightwing death squad m8 remove commies and make your country great again
>>74126539
They are at the stealing goats level. Cannibalism won't happen until they run out of goats.
>>74125945
F E E L T H E B E R N ! ! ! ! ! ! !
Thread theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_sY2rjxq6M
>>74125939
Maduro to follow in Ceaușescu steps when?
>>74125945
>Socialism: Not even once
Hate to break it to you, but the collapse in oil prices and commodities means a lot of countries are going to end up in this position very shortly indeed. Venezuela is the canary in the coal mine, so to speak, since it's economy is so oil dependent, but it's not going to be the last.
Nigeria, Russia, Brazil, Bolivia, Iraq, Libya, Saudi the oil producing parts of Canada (Alberta?) the commodities exporting parts of Australia, parts of the US (Texas, Tennessee) even very wealthy countries like Norway, all of these places are on the same road.
Unless oil gets up to at least $70 a barrell then these countries are going to collapse. I expect Nigeria to break up as coherent state as the corruption and patronage that holds the state together can no longer be financed. Iraq is already fucked - people often underestimate the role that the decline in oil prices has had in the breakup of that state. Russia is in deep trouble too, they're headed for double-digit inflation and deep recession, and were it not for the Russian people's world-renowned ability to endure suffering I would be expecting major political upheavel there too, but I expect it may survive as long as it isn't dragged into war with NATO. Bolivia is in trouble, since it's a major natural gas exporter, Saudi is pissing through it's cash reserves and being forced to part-pritivatize it's state owned oil company and subject it's citizens to cuts in public spending, a bit deal since the House of Saud relies on that money to keep itself in power. Take my word for it, this is a global issue, much more at work here than "muh socialism"
>>74126693
>Death squads
Doesn't work like that. If you happen to find scum, whoever it is you
>Grab a rope
>tie him to a street Light
>Tell everyone he is a thief/murderer/bachaquero/etc
>Watch him die slowly
Also, nothing is happening, We only got used to everyday life being violent. The government is faking violent protests so they can shield themselves from the international media. Maduro will be decapitated but Diosdado will reveal himself as the final boss.
>>74127022
May the ghost of Pinochet protect you!
>>74124772
>>74124772
DAILY REMINDER PINOCHET WAS A POOFTER
http://www.wsj.com/articles/venezuela-and-young-supporters-of-the-bern-1463331200
Venezuela and Young Supporters of ‘The Bern’
>>74127912
>to read the full story, subscribe or sign in
Can you www.archive.today this shit?
South America is proof of the destructive power leftists can wield when they gain control.
>>74126212
All spanish sounds awful. Worst language on earth right next to all those stupid nigger languages.
>>74128096
Just search the link or the title on google, then use that link. Yeah, same link, but whatever, it works.
>>74126885
This. Nigeria is next
>>74125416
>uruguay
Amazing country.
It's a slightly poorer (but more egalitarian) version of Argentina. They are to us what Canada is to the USA. Barely any crime at all, it's probably the safest, whitest country in the Americas.
And it has legal weed.
Uruguay is a hidden gem in South America, I considered moving there but now we have a Conservative in office here so I'm gonna stick around instead and see what happens.
>>74126885
Good post, this is true, the world is in for a wild ride.
>>74126885
I might as well kill myself now and save the suffering.
>>74128143
Thanks breh
>>74128236
>Argentina
http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival-disaster-preparedness/45132-ferfals-lessons-shtf-argentina-true-story.html
You ever read these?
>>74128462
I did, I even commented on his blog and he censored my comments. That guy is a fucking scam artist, trying to paint our country as if it was Sarajevo.
Our economic crisis in 2001 was similar to Greece in 2010, but he paints it as if it was some sort of civil war.
It's all bullshit.
>>74128811
>It's all bullshit.
Not all of it. The news was bad for your country during that time.
>>74128462
full of shit
>>74128924
Sure, but not Venezuela-tier or Sarajevo-tier.
>>74128924
> let me tell you about your cunt
shut the fuck up ameriturd
>>74126212
fucking this
Questions to Venebros
Civil war 2017?
>>74126484
Man I love 31 minutos but got damn, it's hard to understand you with all the "wea" shit.
It's like those aliens of south park who used the same word for everything.
>>74129509
Marklars?
>>74129509
"Weon" and their derivates are universal for every context here. The only way to know what it means for each context is living here.
Daily reminder that Latin America needs to open the door to european refugees once the ahmeds take over, and blanda the heck up out with them
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_whitening
> mfw new aryan master race with macho latino genetics takes over the world
>>74124772
things have gotten so fucked in Venezuela we need a general.
what happened recently
>>74129724
>I will have a qt3,14 german to watch out and fall in love
>I'm 3/4 white
>>74130076
> mfw something positive comes out of Islam
>>74126885
That's a neat source you got there Mohammed.
>>74124772
RIP Allende
>>74130076
I used to have a French gf,exchange student here
Shit was nice,but then she moved back and long distance relationships don't work
>>74126212
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
best spanish is mexico and argentina desu
>>74125510
Nice meme
>>74125939
hahahahahahahaha ebin meme le hahaha so funny XDDDDDD
>>74127907
It's funny you say that, because he dresses like a Soviet general.
>>74126012
It did for about 3 years, but there were serious foreign sanctions and sabotage. Even Nixon himself admitted it. Still, CyberSyn got the country through quite a few disasters.
>>74126885
Good post.
Something more substantial than "huehuehue le free heligobter rides for le gommunists XDDD"
>>74126885
>Brazil
Petrobras is already fucked, this is be the end of it
I agree, great post
Valimos verga cabrones, los veo en la proxima vida
>>74131396
Kill Maduro, that's the easer way, quickly before Putin try to protect him
>>74126212
I had a hot gallega Spanish teacher who always pronounced my last name with that Spanish lisp. Was actually pretty great
>>74131704
>easer
It easier you fucking indio.
>>74125859
>Venezuela
>Best spanish
AYYYYYYY LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>>74131798
>My keyboard cuck me
>>74126885
OBJECTION
Bolivia still have salt.
>>74126885
Stop this oil meme.
See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrfM5UD-Azk
Also, high oil prices were killing us becuase we are net importers. Worse yet for Petrobras since the government had kept gas prices frozen, until after the 2014 elections, forcing Petrobras to also sell gas cheaper than what it was importing it for. The reverse is happening now, higher oil prices might as well be like a Minerva blow now.
>>74132010
You guys need to hope they don't legalise recreational drugs in the USA since it would send the wholesale price of coca into freefall and destroy the Colombian economy,
>>74131704
if america is already supporting the right, wouldn't that get bad, pretty fast?
Also, considering its a very real possibility that the US could have an economic meltdown in the very near future, perhaps we found a new economic stimulus package.
>>74132102
You're missing the point hugely. The situation in Brazil is bad (recession, corruption etc) but Venezuela is an order of magnitude worse, and secondly even in countries that are net importers the value of their currency on the international markets is determined by the price of oil. A lot of oil based economies, Norway, Iran, Russia etc are net importers of oil and gas, since domestic demand is higher than export potential, but that doesn't change the fact that these states generate huge amount of revenue from their oil exports (they'd still be net importers without, the exports simply reduce the gap)
So in a country like Venezula, what's causing the problem is that their currency became worthless internationally since the only thing they sell internationally using that currency is oil, and if oil loses 2/3 of it's value the currency is going to inflate rapidly. This is not unique to Venezuela, you can see the same thing happening in others countries that are depending on oil for export revenue. It props up the value of their currency.
>>74132316
>US could have an economic meltdown
EU will die first. USA still has about 20 years
>>74125877
How much is it "in ours times"?
Weeks?
Months?
Years?
>>74126885
Spot on britbong. Very good. Where do we move from here then?
>>74132619
"Nuestros tiempos"?
>>74127912
That's great
>>74132681
I might die tomorrow...
>>74132575
Try watching the video I refereed to about Venezuela first.
>>74132102
>Also, high oil prices were killing us becuase we are net importers
This doesn't matter. A collapse was only because of your increased social service and the high cost of government.
>Venezuela about to erupt in civil war
>Brazil about to erupt in civil war
Can South America ever not be shit? The poor little monkeys just can't manage a civilization.
>>74132575
The problem with your analysis is that both scarcity and hyper inflation had started before 2014, and by the time the oil prices started to collapse in October 2014 the bolivar fuerte was already in a radical downwards trend
Socialism not even once
>>74132833
Chile should take over south america. They seem to have everything going great.
>>74132773
But Venezuela past beyend the line of no-return, so if only matter of time we see some big happening in there.
>>74132824
My point exactly...
>>74126885
Oil is going to go up in price. The cost of extracting and refining it is so great that it will never be a cheap commodity. Projections have it coming back to $100 a barrel in 10-15 years tops.
>>74132609
>>US could have an economic meltdown
> mfw comfy in Panama while Latin America burns
> mfw people getting tired of traditional parties
> mfw it is a matter of time before we get our Chavez
>>74132948
What in the fuck are you talking about, Bachelet and the Commie Party ruin us beyond repair, we're hoping that Isabel Allende won't be the president, if that happend, we're going full civil war too.
>>74132815
I did. I don't think you paid much attention to the details though.
For instance, he mentions capital flight as a source of their current problems, and he's right, however the backstory to that is capital flight has been something Venezuela had from the moment Chavez got elected, the difference is between then and now that they had alternative sources of revenue that meant they could cope with capital flight in a way that other leftists in the region historically could not (Allende) that changed after 2008, which he mentions himself in the video.
The best criticism of Venezuelan socialist party is that they didn't make much of an effort to diversify the economy or build up large amounts of savings that could see them through a decline in oil prices such as this. This seems to be the core argument he makes, but it's not one that contradicts what I'm saying in any way.
>>74132833
Civil war here? I cant see it happening, things have been very orderly, even all the protests were organized and peaceful.
Even if it did erupt, it would be a few crazy leftist movements against the rest of the whole country. It would end very fast.
>>74133019
The 120 trillion bucks in collateral debt will explode once social security runs out of funds in 2034
But that collapse is around 20 years away
European Union may not survive this year, specially not if Britain says "fuck you"
>>74133103
I said seemed. As in I haven't heard anything major about your country. I'm a bit ignorant when it comes to South American politics.
>>74132935
>The problem with your analysis is that both scarcity and hyper inflation had started before 2014 and by the time the oil prices started to collapse in October 2014
The collapse in oil prices began in 2008, not 2014.
>>74133144
Do you think that South Brazil will secede one day?
>>74133144
>Even if it did erupt, it would be a few crazy leftist movements against the rest of the whole country. It would end very fast.
I wouldn't be so sure y'know. You know your country better than I do but there doesn't need to be vast numbers to instigate a civil war, a hardcore on the left will start it and the logic of war will force people to pick sides. Once these things start, they snowball.
>>74133210
Actually, the yearly high was 2011. Most commodities peaked in 2011.
>>74133184
>But that collapse is around 20 years away
By that time we will have AI and 3D printers that work very well. If anything we maybe looking at a Second Renaissance, not collapse.
>>74133103
>>74133210
> The collapse in oil prices began in 2008, not 2014.
Oil price was stable in the range of 70-110 for the 2011-2014 period, which, outside of an historical super peak in 2007, are historical records
If your government depends on the abnormal oil peak of 2007 lasting eternally, then the problem is your government, not the oil price
>>74133486
nice meme my friend
>>74133143
Well, then we actually agree somehow.
Oil prices are definitely taking its toll and the commodities boom was a wasted opportunity. But they are not the sources of the problem for most non Arab countries.
>>74133482
> a Second Renaissance, not collapse.
Not with having to carry the weight of a whole half of Mexico's population on your backs, which by then will have voted themselves a lot more freebies thanks to the democrats
>>74133562
yo lo dije ctm...
Oh god another catastrophe state Finland throws money onto
>>74132575
>So in a country like Venezula, what's causing the problem is that their currency became worthless internationally since the only thing they sell internationally using that currency is oil, and if oil loses 2/3 of it's value the currency is going to inflate rapidly. This is not unique to Venezuela, you can see the same thing happening in others countries that are depending on oil for export revenue.
But in Venezuela the situation was made worse by the commies in every way.
Before Chavez took office in 1999, oil amounted to 73% of Venezuela's exports. By now, oil amounts to 96% of their exports. Thus, socialism made them more dependent on exporting commodities, rather than industrializing them.
Chavez nationalizations are to blame for this. Before he took office Venezuela was self-sufficient in food, and had a modest industrial sector producing all sorts of goods.
Chavez started expropiating stuff on a whim, large commercial farms were broken up and given to barely literate government supporters. The nation's largest cement factory (Cemex) was expropiated as well as the largest steel mill (Sidor), both are now producing to a third of their capacity.
Even oil production fell as the profits were squandered on bullshit socialist propaganda initiatives rather than reinvested in exploration.
Not to mention the budget deficit which needed a barrel of $100 USD to make ends meet. (It was obvious such situation would not last)
So yeah, oil prices falling were the spark that lit the fuse, but Venezuela was ruined by socialism which made them so dependent on oil in the first place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRgBYug5t1A
>>74133663
>half of Mexico
Least of our problems
>>74133259
Secede into a new country, no. But our federate pact needs to be reviewed, the central government is way too strong compared to the states and cities.
>>74133455
There was a huge decline in prices 2008, an unsteady recovery between 2009-14, then another crash as a result of the Saudi-Iran tensions.
The increase in basic inflation began in Venezuela in 2008, but was managable (ie below 15-20% sort of range) the 2014 crash however sent the bolivar into an inflationary spiral.
The two things correlate more or less perfectly, and since in Venezuela oil prices are causally linked to the value of their currency on the international markets, it's pretty foolish to ignore the central role oil is playing in this. The fact other countries that are much richer, better governed and less corrupt are suffering from similar problems would suggest that the global economy is the driving force of this.
>>74133210
>>74132935
Both of you are retarded.
South America in general is fucked because of income inequality and corruption. This is true of the entire earth, but SA has the added problem that the USA and its handlers in the WTO has made the place its rape room since about 1830.
There is no democracy; there is oligarchy, and if there could be no better proof of the bullshit of elitism, it is that the only time the world works is when the rich are hobbled, and the people's demands are met.
The rich are stupid, and allowing them to make decisions because you have been mindfucked by their selfish, irresponsible, blame everyone else narrative of economic pain, is the reason your countries suck.
There is no economics in nature because nature doesn't use money. When you finally realize you can choose to feed yourselves and find a job for everyone without the USA making a profit off it, you will be free from the hunger and insecurity of our lies.
Oil prices !! Shit!!!
>>74133144
Civil wars can crop up over the most minute of reasons. Someone in the military might just figure that the recent instability is their best shot of seizing power; shit goes side ways.
>>74133830
You are missing the first entry of that list
> There was a huge bubble in 2007, which the government assumed would last forever, then an immediate correction, then a recovery still way above historical levels, and now the actual crash
>>74133525
>Oil price was stable in the range of 70-110
It certainly wasn't stable, as you can see in the attached graph fluctations of prices were much higher
And apart from a few speculative peaks triggered by large investments here and there, they stay on the low-end of the "70-110" range as you put it, so in other words half of it's peak value.
>If your government depends on the abnormal oil peak of 2007 lasting eternally, then the problem is your government, not the oil price
There's some truth in this, but no matter how good you are at governing if your main staple export loses all it's value, and your currency becomes worthless on the international currency markets as a result, you're fucked no matter what you do.
And btw, they were talking about those oil prices being abnormal prior to the 2008 crash, that's hindsight coming in.
>>74133830
I can guarantee you that Norway (which saves the proceeds of oil on a sovereign wealth fund rather than squandering it on bullshit like paying actor Danny Glover to make a film about Haiti *), will not have the kind of problems Venezuela is facing.
* A hillarious example
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/may/21/film.venezuela
>>74133909
You don't have to blame the US for the terrible decisions made by SA politicians. America engages in economic warfare with a host of nations, none of which are in SA. They just get caught in the blast, and for whatever reason at the time, don't seem to take any steps to prevent such.
>>74133909
> the problem is that there is no democracy
Fucking kek, reddit is the other way m8
also my country does not suck, I have a nice and comfy programmer job and live a tranquil middle class life in a comfy suburb
the only danger that exists in my life is retarded low-IQ masses voting for a Chavez and fucking everything up
>>74133647
>Oil prices are definitely taking its toll and the commodities boom was a wasted opportunity.
You say that, but the socialist party in Venezuela didn't get re-elected over and over again by accident. Their program was pretty simple - use the oil money to build medical centres and public infrastructure projects in poor areas. Great idea when the oil price is high, they managed to outpace most other South American countries in terms of economyic growth and on issues like malnutrition, education, life-expectency, infant mortality etc. Problem is, what happens to all that stuff when the oil prices drop?
I think a big part of the problem is that Maduro isn't a very competent leader, and there's a lot of corruption around his inner circle and associates, whereas Hugo was genuinely charismatic and had a lot of genuine popular support. It reminds me of when Tito died in Yugoslavia.
>>74134216
>they managed to outpace most other South American countries in terms of economyic growth and on issues like malnutrition, education, life-expectency, infant mortality etc
No they didn't.
Hehehe wouldn't want to be neighboring country of Venezuela right now. Inc a shitload of refugees.
>>74133997
as I understand it, Venezuela was far more than just a "get oil here" country before Chavez took over
literally any other form of government except leftism would have being able not to screw things up so badly and actually managed the crises
>>74132575
>what is inflation
Dear britbong:
Please stop talking out of your ass.
>>74133441
Worst case being the movements having access to hidden stashes of supplies and weapons build by the now suspended government and international friends (Venezuela, Argentina, Ecuador, Bolivia).
Most of these countries are in a bind however, Morales was not able to change the constitution, Argentina is under new government, Venezuela is falling apart and we do not share a border with Ecuador.
On the other hand, our armed forces are wasting most of their budgets on personnel due to compulsory service, we even had ammo shortages making into the news from time to time.
There are also the uncertainties about the current government since the whole 2014 election is at stake pending trial over the supreme electoral court. Worst case being indirect elections (congress voting for the new president) if they take too long.
The potential for things to go worse are here, but I feel such to be an unlikely scenario.
Venezuela was dead before the oil crashed the last year, hell, months before of the death of Chavez, Venezuela was having problems, and that was long ago.
>>74134111
Trips of truth. As long as you're in Panama City and not Colón.
>>74134216
>>74134318
gotta agree with the argie
do you have a source for that claim?
Chavez was very close to losing it the game (the closest one being the coup in 2002), that the venezuelan opposition managed to screw itself over does not change the fact that there were constant crises during his government
>>74133768
There seems to be strange mistakes.
Firstly investing in your most abundant natural resources is eminently sensible. It's actually a cornerstone of free-market theory, known as the "theory of comparative advantage" so even though it's a socialist government it's decision to play to it's strengths on the global market was one totally consistent with Smithian/Ricardian economic theory.
I agree they should've done more to diversify the economy, but this is the benefit of hindsight. Venezuela's increasing oil exports simply reflect the fact that oil was the most profitable source of income the country had back when oil was $130 a barrel - it would be pretty stupid to scale back your oil exports just as oil prices are rising, wouldn't you agree?
Finally, if the nationalisations you're talking about were the ultimate source of the problem then what about other countries with nationalised oil companies, like Saudi Arabia or Qatar for instance? They are very hostile to any form of socialism but they had the good sense to nationalise their main source of export income. If nationally oil companies was the source of the problem then Norway would be even more fucked than Venezuela.
>>74134666
Nuke Colon for all I care. Include a few ghetto areas in the city with tactical nukes and we have a deal
>>74133935
Our regular military has been completely quiet throughout the whole process.
Actually, even the dictatorship itself was peacefully ended with full cooperation from them thanks to the amnesty deal.
>>74134111
where do you get a job as a programmer in panama? que empresa? aquí aceptan interns con experiencia pero sin graduar?
>>74133994
>There was a huge bubble in 2007, which the government assumed would last forever
Not trying to go too far to defend the government here, but you can't really hold them to fault for not being able to predict the future. Nearly every major economy on earth had expected oil to stay permanently high, the number of breathless articles in the financial times talking about the "new normal" of $100+ barrel of oil suggests to me that most governments did not expect the global economy to fall apart in the way it did in 2008. You can see similar logic in the way in which the Canadians went all-in on the Tar Sands for example, or the pressure for the Keystone X pipeline in the USA (something which seems like a massive white elephant when you consider how cheap oil is on the market)
>>74131704
>Kill Mamaduro
Easier to say when you are on a different country hundreds of miles away from us, not to mention he has all the guns and the right is beta as fuck.
>>74124893
true. I hope Bernie wins so we can be as successful as venezuela.
>>74134731
>I agree they should've done more to diversify the economy, but this is the benefit of hindsight.
They claimed socialism would diversify the economy. It wasn't a matter of hindsight, it was a matter of policies.
>Venezuela's increasing oil exports simply reflect the fact that oil was the most profitable source of income the country had back when oil was $130 a barrel
It didn't increase oil exports, it reduced exports of everything else as production collapsed.
>If nationally oil companies was the source of the problem then Norway would be even more fucked than Venezuela.
Norway's oil company is mixed (half-private) and even issues stock on the market. Not the same as having a state oil company ran by socialist party cronies.
Anyway, it wasn't just the oil company.
Almost EVERYTHING was nationalized. Even if Venezuela had not been a corrupt country, no state can manage so many industries efficiently as the Soviet experience demonstrates.
>>74135025
Call the US, they will send you new TOW for that, i mean, look how FSA/Nusra has still managed to suvirve so long in Syria
>>74134036
Norway had a state owned oil company (now part privatized) and decades worth of social democratic government though - if these things are the cause of Venezuela's problems like you suggest why aren't they doing the same thing to Norway?
Fact is the oil prices are having an affect on right-wing capitalist countries with links to big privately owned multinational oil companies (Nigeria, Iraq) as much as left-wing social democratic countries with state owned oil companies (Bolivia, Venezuela, Brazil et al)
>>74134036
And btw you think that Chavez squandered money you should check out the norwegian welfare state, their prisons are better standard of living than most latin americans live under.
Fuck
Theres 0 chance to know whats actually happening Venezuela and there are no Venezuelans in this site
I know one i met online but he is a retard
As I understand it Venezuela was one of the more prosperous countries in Latin America before Chavez came to power, which makes it even more of a shame to see the position the country it is right now.
I wouldn't be surprised if our Marines are getting ready for an intervention should the opposition take power or the Venezuelan state collapses.
>South American banter
Right up there with balkanbantz desu, this thread is awesome, though rip in peace condolences to Venezuelabro
>>74126484
Huevon, cachai, concha su madre... no, just no
>>74135167
kek
What's the Latin American equivalent of Turkey, Brazil?
>>74135051
>They claimed socialism would diversify the economy.
Well you can have a go at them for that if you like, but I promise you a Capriles government would've done the exact same thing, since betting the future on permanently high commodity prices is what practically every government did in the run-up to 2008. The only difference is Venezuela is the first to see serious economic problems as a result of it, cos they're so dependent on oil, but as I've been saying all along it's not the last place that will go through it.
>>74135465
Bolivia, by far
>>74135359
Is conchetumare, aweonao
>>74134910
Big companies like ETESA, Banistmo and Cerveceria Nacional usually need people to take care of their internal database / customer management systems. You can usually see their job opening in the "clasificados"
As for people without university titles, I don't really see an opening, they are very picky about that, PLUS they are always asking for a million of titles and expertice with Java, SAP, PHP, Webforms (as an excuse to hire foreigners I suspect, heck in one of the companies I work with almost all the employees are from Venezuela)
>>74135465
>What's the Latin American equivalent of Turkey,
Turkey as in what?
>>74135174
Norway is a social democracy.
Few state companies there. Most industry aside for the oil, is in private hands. It is also ranked as a nation with high economic freedom and has strong property rights.
Venezuela went full socialist command economy, with sweeping nationalizations of industry, it's not the same thing.
>>74135228
That's because they can afford it. Maybe if Venezuela kept reinvesting their oil proceeds on sovereign wealth funds to stabilize finances, education, and in increasing oil production, they could afford those things too... in a generation.
Just compare Norway with Venezuela's GDP per capita.
>>74135535
Are you the /sg/ chilebro
>>74135051
>It didn't increase oil exports
Sorry meant to say increase export revenue, rather than barrels of oil per day.
>>74135051
>Norway's oil company is mixed (half-private)
It was publicly owned for 35 years prior to that and is still majority owned by the govt I believe.
>a state oil company ran by socialist party cronies.
This is a pretty good description of the Norwegian economy for the last 40 years.
>>74135051
>no state can manage so many industries efficiently as the Soviet experience demonstrates.
Again, that's a bad choice to pick since the Soviet Union, whatever it's faults, existed for 76 years and led to the transformation of Russian from being a backward peasant economy to being a modern and powerful state.
Russia was poorer than the West for most of it's history, the gap between the two closed significantly in that period of time. Same is true of China. This is why we call it the 2nd world and not the 3rd world.
>>74135725
after world war two if you sided with the US you were first world, and if you sided with the USSR you were second world
everybody who didn't matter at the time is third world
>>74134999
My point is that without the big government expansion of spending and without the expropiations, a collapse in production and price would not bring the country to the border of mass starvation
The whole point about the Right, as I understand it, is that the Left promises Utopias that have a high risk of crashing, while the Right promises smaller governments that keep the hands of the government free and debt low so that any emergency like the one happening right now can be mitigated without risks for the very survival of society
Basically, Stability over Paradise, which is why the Right is seen as "evil realists" while the Left is "utopian fools"
>>74135620
>Norway is a social democracy.
Technically speaking so is the Venezuelan socialist party, and on top of that I distinctly remember Chavez reference Norway as a direct inspiration for what they're doing.
>Venezuela went full socialist command economy
This is totally incorrect. The commies over in Venezuela like to make this point over and over.
As for your point about sovereign wealth funds, you might have a point I think in retrospect that would've been a good idea, but once again we're dealing with hindsight.
>>74135725
The average person wasn't really better off though. The country was geared towards appearing strong, which worked for a few decades, but they couldn't keep it up for long. Other countries, like Romania and the Czech Republic, got even poorer.
>>74135591
I recognized Chilebro from the Syria General threads. People in /sg/ dislike Turkey and the Turks, to put it mildly.
Basic joke is that the Turks are nationalistic assholes with dreams of creating a new empire throughout the region. In the Syrian Civil War the Turks arm and support many "moderate" rebels (although my government does the same thing, unfortunately) that is essentially al Qaeda or it's equivalent.
>>74135725
Command economies don't work.
Sure, you could industrialize a peasant country on the back of massive repression, but at some point you need to move beyond building tanks and iron mills and start creating complex technology and consumer goods, and that is when command economies usually stagnate, as they can't keep track of thousands of different goods, their costs, relative prices, and input requirements.
Also, lack of incentives to produce stagnates growth and technological innovation.
Why USA gets the good venezuelans while we're stuck with the shitty ones?
>>74135952
Theres not such a country here
Maybe colombia whos main export is drugs and narcos
>>74135578
entonces es todo softwware eng, comp sci.. cosas para las cuales hay mejores universidades en el extranjero. porque esa carrera tecnica de it en la utp no es suficiente supongo
>>74135899
>My point is that without the big government expansion of spending and without the expropiations, a collapse in production and price would not bring the country to the border of mass starvation
If that's your point then you're just factually wrong, since other countries which didn't do those things are also suffering from exactly the same sort of problems Venezuela is suffering from (inflation, recession, deficits, restricted acces to international capital and currency markets) Russia is a perfect example - low taxes, an economy that was literally designed on neo-liberal grounds by the IMF in the 1990's, right-wing political elite and president, and they're still fucked. Unless Capriles can somehow increase the price of oil there's nothing the opposition can do to resolve the situation.
>>74135926
Meant Czechslovakia. Point is, the average person under communism had a shitty life. The West reached unprecedented levels of prosperity in comparison with the communists.
>>74135916
What Chavez said and what he did are very different matters. He nationalized most industry and even food distribution in the country. It's not a Scandinavian social democratic model.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-election-nationalizations-idUSBRE89701X20121008
>>74132129
Colombia is only the third biggest cocaine producer now. First is Peru, then Bolivia and then Colombia.
>>74135916
Norway does not have anything resembling price control of basic-need items, which is the core cause of the scarcity
Nor is Norway expropiating farms and factories
To say Venezuela and Norway are the same is quite disingenuous
Never mind that Norway has a quite open economy, an example of this is the power market:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Norway
> Norway has an open electric market, integrated with the other Nordic countries. Export and import is routine over the direct power links to Sweden, Denmark, and the Netherlands. The market is handled by NASDAQ OMX Commodities Europe and Nord Pool Spot, and has 5 price zones in Norway. Many of the hydroelectric plants in Norway are easily adjustable and can adapt well to variations in demand, and hence in price, but frequency stability is not satisfactory, and Statnett works with producers to minimize sudden changes in power flow.
>>74135174
state companies work when its run in a technocratic way, and not in the typical nepotist/money gubbling way. state companies make sense for certain things, like natural resources., energy generation
>>74135926
>The average person wasn't really better off though
This is something that is easy to disprove statistically. By practically every conceivable obejctive standard conditions in 1991 were far better than they were in 1917. Life expectancy, infant mortality, eduation, literacy, all of which massively improved. People forget just how backward Russia was pre-1917.
Source - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2546027/
>>74136183
Russia also bears the brunt of sanctions and is still reliant on oil, although less so than Venezuela. It's also not nearly as bad as Venezuela because they didn't go crazy setting price controls, printing money, and nationalizing industries. Russia is still working, Venezuela is chaos.
>>74135952
Maybe this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foro_de_S%C3%A3o_Paulo
But not an actual country. The closest would be Bolivia, they even keep a star in their flag for a state that is now part of Chile. And they keep upping the drama about our state of Acre. Besides the heavy handed approach they used against Petrobras some time ago and their gas exports to us.
Y'all Latin niggers ready for massive Penezuelan migration when shit hits the fan real hard? it'll be the whole European refugee ordeal again cept this time will be with brown Catholics instead of mudslimes, pepper your angus, Colombia, Panama, US, Chili and Argentina
>>74136183
> which didn't do those things are also suffering from exactly the same sort of problems
Russia's current inflation is 12.9 %.
Why is it not having an inflation of 690 % like Venezuela then?
Your implication that all oil producing countries from Canada to Saudi Arabia are having exactly the same problems of Venezuela is just bizarre and absurd, and has no relationship with reality
>>74136388
That's the bear minimum of what can be considered improvement, and it happened everywhere basically. Haiti, for example, has a life expectancy of about 63 years, which is a vast improvement since 1917 of course, but that's not saying much. Cuba has 99% literacy, doesn't do shit for them The Soviets were still far behind the West and weren't even close to catching up to the average quality of life of a European.
>>74136520
We have been successful so far when dealing with migrants, notably so christian and Japanese migrants.
>>74136520
As long as we get the hard working conservatives and their qt sisters you are welcome here.
No Chavez voters pls.
>>74136181
>porque esa carrera tecnica de it en la utp no es suficiente supongo
No necesariamente. Tengo familiares que hay conseguido buenos puestos con titulos de la UTP
>>74124772
I came here to say that Allende was based
Chavez was a retard who wasted all his oil money on gibs and didnt save anything. Had he set an investment fund like norway they would be in better shape today
>>74136520
we've been having 6-10% monthly inflation since 209
Don't count as in
>>74136732
>wanting more bolivian/peruvian tier of people. Even if a few are educated the rest won't be
>>74136705
What's interesting is that Cuba's amazing education system will be a great launching pad when they finally adopt capitalism.
It will be like China, except in the Caribbean, much closer to trade routes and sources of investment.
>>74136556
Yeah we're a bit fucked too. Forgetting about the Chinese gold Yuan and stuff? We make oil. We fucked up everything to do with that. So ya
>>74136855
Surely you don't have triple digits inflation and an inability to acquire basic goods, as our mohammetan friend would imply!
>>74136520
>implying they won't flock here on the backs of Guatemalans
it's already really bad here and I live in a small city, lots of non-English speakers (they literally look at me like I have 5 heads if I ask if they need help at my store). please please please, Venezuelans, if you do have a coup, just stay there and fight for your freedom fucks sake.
>>74136194
Modern day Czech Republic is social democratic and led Europe in '14 or '15 economically, I can't remember
>>74136938
Yeah we just do fake fiat mohnie
Arepas failed to topple Maduro in 2014. Now his government will be permanent as long as he's alive.
>>74136853
Don't count on it. They're doctors aren't even allowed to practice here because they don't have the equipment to teach right. Having had some Cuban teachers, I can say that it's basically Latin America tier. Only difference is that they made a point of teaching everyone to read and write.
>>74136960
>Modern day
>>74136556
>Russia's current inflation is 12.9 %.
Because Russia has large cash reserves and a much broader economy, meaning it can withstand the shock somewhat better than Venezuela.
That doesn't change the fact that the same global economic forces, the decline in commodities, is the driving force behind both Russia and Venezuela's problems, it just tells us that one country is in a position to deal with it better than the other. Remember Russia is a country that spent most of the 20th century as a marginalised pariah state - they've got an uncanny ability to be able to withstand these sorts of shocks in a way other countries simply can't.
Remember between 2008-2013 Venezuelan inflation was in the low-teens as well. With high economic growth this is managable and the only people who lose out are those with large cash savings.
Russia's inflation rate could end up like Venezuela's very quickly if their other sources of revenue (arms exports and such) start to strugle. They've been in the same situation between back in the 90's so it's not exactly unthinkable.
>>74136556
>Your implication that all oil producing countries from Canada to Saudi Arabia are having exactly the same problems of Venezuela is just bizarre and absurd
my claim was that Venezuela might be the most extreme example, due to the particular dependency Venezuela has one oil exports, but that other countries that rely on oil exports to a lesser extent are also facing similar, albeit less extreme, variations of the same crisis. Give it 2 or 3 years though, and if oil prices don't rebound, you'll see Venezuela repeated in a number of places.
> le every successful european country is a Venezuela-tier social democracy no matter how free their markets actually are meme
>>74136406
Well they did get cucked out of access to the sea, I don't blame them. I'm sure the Paraguayans still secretly harbor dreams of glory and vengeance too.
>>74136520
All of you are one shade of brown Catholic or another, what's the problem?
>>74137102
Full literacy is a big deal, particularly in the Caribbean, it will help them when capitalism is brought back.
>>74137194
Venezuela's main problem is the corruption and misuse of their oil proceeda. They had a trillion dollars of pil revenue in ten years, where did it go? Instead subisidizing everything and making gasoline free, they should've tried to diversify like a bunch of the states in the Middle East are doing. Russia, considering the sanctions and oil crash, is doing superbly. Venezuela caused this problem by themselves.
>>74137194
>it just tells us that one country is in a position to deal with it better than the other.
That's because one country is better run than the other. Oil going below $100 already sent Venezuela into a tailspin. Oil below $20 would probably send Russia into a tailspin.
You'd need oil at $1 to send Norway into a tailspin, since they can just dip into their massive sovereign wealth fund or borrow debt at low rates.
That was my point all along.
>>74137316
>Less than 35%
How does a country even function as a country like that?
>>74137316
It will help to some extent, but Cuba won't exactly be a power house.
>>74137416
I doubt they pocketed it
My previous government is being prosecuted for stealing dozen of blions of dollars , theres 0 chance its for themselves
>>74137194
if your expectation is that
> In 3 years, oil-producing countries will have widespread scarcity of basic goods and failure of the power grid, and people will make lines to get some floor, their industries will be unable to access prime matter, and all their factories will close because oil is above historical averages but not far enough
methinks you are creating an alternative reality just to be able to say that socialism works
>>74136950
For whatever reasons South Americans are much more tolerable than Mexicans and Central Americans in my experience. All of the Cubans and Venezuelans I've known are pretty based.
I'm not a fan of mass immigration in general or immigration from Latin America in particular, but you could do worse than Venezuelans.
>>74137609
Lower class border hopping Central Americans are literally like the niggers of the Hispanic community.
>>74137551
I've heard stories from Venezolanos. They were supposed to build a few gas power plants for like 20 billion for example. The money just disappeared and they were never built. They're stuck relying on hydro even though they have massive gas reserves now and have 20 hour blackouts.
>>74137416
>Venezuela's main problem is the corruption and misuse of their oil proceeds.
I don't disagree, if they'd had a lage sovreign wealth fund they might be able to withstand some of this better, but again this is hindsight.
It's worth pointing out it's a lot easier to spend your government income on investments rather than basic necessities such as healthcare and education when you live in a country like Norway, which has had a well developed and funded welfare state for the best part of a century, compared to a 3rd world country in Latin America with a history of violent dictatorship.
Besides, Saudi and the Gulf Monarchies are looking very unsteady right now, last week they lost their AAA credit rating and are having to sell off assetts and raise taxes to cover their huge deficits.
As for Russia, I wouldn't say it was "doing superbly" but it's a very different sort of place to most countries, their country survived without access to the world's capital and export markets for the best part of 76 years and still managed to win world 2 and put a man in space, they have infrastructure specifically designed for these sorts of crises and a politlcal elite experienced at managing them.
>>74137718
I meant they didn't steal for themselves, there must be something they do with that kind of money
>>74137725
>compared to a 3rd world country in Latin America with a history of violent dictatorship.
Akthually Venezuela was relatively democratic and stable thanks to puntofijismo
> Saudi and the Gulf Monarchies are looking very unsteady right now, last week they lost their AAA credit rating and are having to sell off assetts and raise taxes to cover their huge deficits.
But they are not bordering in mass starvation
It is extremely obvious the current problem is related more to the thousands of factories closing down since 2002 than to anything else
>>74137496
>That's because one country is better run than the other
Maybe so, but even if it was "well run" in your words it would have little overall impact unless they could increase the value of oil their currency will be worthless.
What will happen if the opposition will get in is all the state owned industries and oil companies will be sold to American multinationals, and the political leaders who organise that sell-offs will make millions and go live in America. I don't think the opposition have a coherent plan to do anything about the situation any more than Maduro, and like in Brazil, I don't think they're less corrupt or more competent than the socialist either.
This is assuming there's no civil war, which I think there will be, so whoever takes over from the socialists will have to deal with that and take it from me, if you think things can't get much more than they are now, then think again.
>>74126885
You mustn't be on that level of retardation, right britbong?
The low prices were not because of a drop in demand, whoch would justify your argument, but in an articulated hike in production to both cripple russia and the US deep-waters extraction. This situation will only remain until ww3 which is set to go somewhere around 2025.
>>74137967
Anyone is more competent than the chavistas.
>>74137194
Venezuela's inflation was already over 55% in 2013, when oil barrels were still hovering around $100.
The state was already going broke, that's why it was relentlessly printing money.
>>74137967
> the political leaders who organise that sell-offs will make millions and go live in America.
that would inject much needed dollars into the economy, which would be recycled and allow the factories to start producing once more after the companies can access the international market once more
But nooooooooooooo... that would be evil and greedy, lets have a moral panick and starve instead
>>74137941
Was gonna write this. At least the Gulf monarchies and Russua had some contingency plans. Venezuela had none.
>>74138016
> britbong
> implying it is not a transmarxist muslim gender binary guevarakin
>>74137598
If oil prices don't go up substantially you could see those things happen in other countries too. I'd pick Nigeria as a key one to keep an eye on, as well as the gulf monarchies, iraq and libya. Iraq is already fucked and a lot of people don't fully appreciate how the post-2008 collapse in oil prices played a direct role in the break-up of the country (which was based on a sectarian distribution of oil wealth to a corrupt political class - once the oil money dried up the only thing binding the sunni's to the Iraqi state went with it, leading to a big rise in Sunni fundamentalism and then ISIS)
I don't indulge cliche's about "hurr durr socialism doesn't work" cos I prefer to have serious discussions, sorry.
>>74136950
>just stay there and fight for your freedom fucks sake.
"no"
that never happens never will, no one wants to die fighting for a third world shithole, NO ONE, only the most try hard fanatics and outright dumb ignorant people do it
>>74136804
>we've been having 6-10% monthly inflation since 209
Doesn't fucking matter Santy, compare that too 1000% annual inflation and it's fucking nothing, plus Argentina is nice as fuck and the people mind their own business, Source: me I have traveled to Argentina (and Urgay for that matter) , plus they'll most likely thing you are an average Argie as long as you are light skinned, I was called white multiple times when I look like the average looking panchito
>>74136732
That wont happen, when literal millions of people are running away from mass rape and murder a whole lot of them will be dumb niggers who dont give a flying fuck about illegaly migrating to a different country, again it'll be the whole European refugee ordeal but with brown malandros this time
>>74138217
See >>74138044
Another inaccuracy: Brazil is a net importer of oil. Linking our crisis with the oil crash is moronic.
>>74138214
eres tu Ronnie o Araña?
>post YFW venezuela breaks into bloody civil war and/or it gets conquered by its neighbors with more blood
>>74138217
When was the Libya thing? 2010? Oil rebounded by then. Libya experienced the same turmoil as Tunisia, just on a larger scale.
>>74137941
>But they are not bordering in mass starvation
yet. For instance Saudi Arabian agriculture and food exports are heavily subsidised by oil revenue. They are selling their assetts from their sovereign wealth funds as we speak to keep people fed. This will last a while, but not indefinitely.
Russia on the other hand is capable of feeding itself more or less permanently, and has other sources of revenue, meaning that even though it's not as wealthy (per capita) and doesn't get US support like Saudi it can withstand it much better
>It is extremely obvious the current problem is related more to the thousands of factories closing down since 2002 than to anything else
Highly unlikely imo,
Like I said in my very first post, Venezuela might be the first but it won't be the last. Any country whose currency is tied to the price of commodities is going to see that currency lose value on the international markets, in fact we're alreay seeing this take place, Venezuela is way out in the lead but it's not the only other country suffering from the underlying issue - the ongoing global collapse in commodity prices as a result of weak demand in the EU and China.
>>74138367
The Venezuelans are more likely to murder and drag all of their government oppressors through the streets. I don't know how much they can possibly take. Maduro should honestly flee to Bolivia or something.
>>74138217
Nigeria and Iraq had exactly the same problems with or without temporary record oil prices
Did you forget about the whole "gassing the kurds" things the sunnies tried? or about the bloody Biafran War in Nigeria?
Oil price may have delayed the unavoidable, but that you see the fall of oil price as the "real cause" is laughable
It is exactly the same case with Venezuela and socialism as a whole. Your whole argument is a typical leftist argument: "If the world wasn't the world but X fantasy were Y never happens, then Socialism works"
>>74137706
I currently live in a suburb that's about 1/3 wealthy Mexicans from Mexico City and Veracruz. They're typically vain, self-absorbed, and snobby even by wealthy Southern white women standards. I actually tend to prefer the poorer ones since they're more humble.
Never had that problem with Brazilians, Argentinians, Venezuelans, or Cubans either.
This sounds fucking juicy.
Can anyone tell me a bit about the opposition, MUD - are they any good?
Also,are the looters all behind the MUD?
>>74138582
I DONT CARE.
LORD KEK REQUIRES BLOOD.
>>74124772
Why can't Colombia just invade Venezuela and liberate them from their insane government?
>>74138025
your bias is showing.
I'm not interesting in circlejerking about "socialism never works!!! privatize everything! praise be to the oligarchs!" I just want to talk about the underlying global economic factors that are driving this, and what other countries in a similar position are going to do to avoid becoming like Venezuela. Cos as I've said all along, Venezuela might be the worst right now, but it's not like it was the only nation that bought into the oil boom pre-2008, neary every economy on earth (including the US with it's fracking and so on) that could do went all-in on commodities. Seeing how that plays out internationally is very interesting and seeing it as part of a much broader global slowdown is also interesting, much more interesting than platitudes about Chavez and corruption etc.
>>74138582
>Maduro should honestly flee to Bolivia or something.
>Implying Maduro is smart enough to do that
He's dumb like a fucking rock, he can't even speak Spanish properly I mean come the fuck on
>>74138241
>almsot 120% annual inflation
>not mattering
I still don't even understand why the fuck we have such high rates
>>74137131
Just comin off the prehistoric thread or?
>>74138148
>that would inject much needed dollars into the economy
Yeah into the economy of Panama and the Cayman Islands maybe but you'd have to be very optimistic if you think anyone in Venezuela is going to see any of that.
>>74138538
> Highly unlikely imo
Why? Because it is not convenient for you?
your argument:
> The government screwed the economy and factories closed but no one would have noticed as long as magical oil money came appearing forever, so the real problem is that the fairy of high oil prices vanished, not that thousands of factories that produced basic living items closed down
>>74138763
Bias? They're literally the most inept goverenment on Earth. Only early 2000's Mugabe gives them a run for their money. If you actually talked to venezolanos you would realize that.
>>74138844
And buddy was talking about their former quasi satellite status of USSR. Gimme a break
>>74138751
Because the Colombian army isnt worth jack shit, they have like no fucking tanks and their jet planes dont fucking work, in their defense they dont need a working arming when papa America has your back, also their are busy fighting guerrillero niggers in the jungle
>>74138773
well I mean it obviously matters but your country is still relatively stable and things are better now than la christy is gone
>>74138241
>only the most tryhard
Do I have to remind you that your country is NOT your government? You're bound to the land you're born by metaphysical chains, nobody is fully happy living outside his country for good.
You will fight and you will live, there is no such thing like giving. What if everywhere in the world goes to shit, where are you going to flee?
I do hate with passion the leftists governments that the poor and dispossessed elected here, but I do love my country and will never leave it, no matter how hard shit gets.
If you don't do the same, if you're not a patriot you deserve no land other the one that will cover your body when you die.
Why doesn't the ghost of Chavez tell Maduro how to fix the country?
>>74138323
>Brazil is a net importer of oil
What makes you think this has no bearing on things?
Just because a country is a net importer doesn't mean their oil exports don't play a massive role in the overall value of their currency. Being a net exporter is difficult in such a large country, exports simply reduce the gap and thus strengthen the value of the currency.
>>74138847
They would see milk for their babies, bread for their grannies, they would see medicine and food, they dont need to see any dollar
Protip: Most people don't suffer from the bizarre moral panicks of your envy-based ideology about people wanting to make money *SHOCK* by providing products and services!!!
>>74138633
America is letting in the worst possible people from Central America. Most South Americans and Spanish Caribbean people are mostly all vetted through some sort immigration system when they arrive here. The central Americans just do what ever the fuck they want. You don't Cubans and South American Hispanics rioting in Florida like the indios do in California.we have standards and we choose to participate in the greater American culture.
>>74138926
We haven't see this level of economic chaos since Mugabe put prices controls in Zimbabwe.
>>74137967
You are delusional and deserve to live in a communist police state
>>74138044
>Venezuela's inflation was already over 55% in 2013, when oil barrels were still hovering around $100.
Except for the fact that (just prior to were your graph starts) oil had lost 2/3 of it's value. Like with all rapid losses, there was a limited recover, but by that point the damage had been done. The 2008 crash is what set the ball rolling, and the temporary recovery from that crash wasn't going to stop it.
>>74139037
fuck off retard, people are starving there. Worse yet, homicide rates are Honduras-tier.
You're unlikely to be an indian, some of your ancestors probably flew away from WWI, Portuguese colonial wars, Ottoman Empire or some shit like that.
>>74139051
It means cheaper oil is BENEFICIAL to the country. Or it should be if prices weren't controlled by the state, which now buys low and sells high to its citizens to cover the hole they created.
>>74125340
They only get 10 minutes of internet per week per household there.
>>74138323
>Linking our crisis with the oil crash is moronic
Actually, oil and commodity prices are linked.
Brazil is doing bad because soy prices are down. Same reason we are in recession.
>>74137967
>Maybe so, but even if it was "well run" in your words it would have little overall impact unless they could increase the value of oil their currency will be worthless.
Their currency is worthless because they've printed too much of it and don't have the corresponding increase in production to back it.
It's not just a matter of the oil price, but of the oil price combined with reckless money printing.
>This is assuming there's no civil war, which I think there will be
Yeah this is actually scary as fuck. The Venezuelan opposition seems clueless to me, not as much as the government of course, but if the impasse continues the military will eventually step up supporting one side or the other and it will be a mess.
>>74139006
He's memeing to scare you off, we don't have that kind of inflation.
>>74138415
>When was the Libya thing? 2010?
It's been ongoing for the last 15 years - the oil is in the east of the country and part of why the US state dept under Hillary supported the rebellion is that they thought that they might be able to get a slice of the action if they could break off the Eastern section of the country from the West. Hence the importance of Benghazi rather than Tripoli, since that's the nearest major coast city to the Libyan oil fields.
And the oil price recovery was hardly a permanent thing - it had never recoverd to its pre-2008 trend and most governments (including the USA, canada, russia, the uk, norway, etc etc) had planned on that rise in prices being permanent, not a bubble. Once that popped, even a partial recovery in prices wouldn't have been enough to meet the sort of expectations that policy planners and major businesses had been expecting.
>>74139037
Are you single and with no children? is easier to think like that when you dont have to worry about your daughter being raped by left or right wing niggers or your son being murdered by crazy brown warlords.
Plus nationalist is bullshit and was only invented by European countries during WWII to make people fight and die for them, say what you want but I Feel nothing for this piece of land and I would trade it all for a chance somewhere else, preferably a place that doesn't has the highest murder rates of the whole fucking world.
>>74138862
>Why? Because it is not convenient for you?
No because Venezuelan industrial exports weren't and never have been of the level of importance as oil exports, something which predates Chavez btw. It might not have helped matters, but in an economy utterly dominated by oil exports the remaining 5% of non-oil exports don't constitute a large enough sector of the economy to have the effect that you're describing.
Essentially what's going on here is that you're trying to insulate Venezuela from the much broader events in the global economy in order to make an anti-socialist political point. You're allowing your own bias to take the entire context of the global economy out of the story so you can focus exclusively on pushing your own narrative. A little objectivity is all I ask.
>>74139208
what a load of revisionist bullshit. Oil reached all-time highs and stayed above $100 for more than 3 years, and you want to blame all the Venezuelan crisis on its crash, despite the fact that it started far before the bubble popped. I wonder if you really convinced yourself of your own bullshit.
>>74139052
>They would see milk for their babies, bread for their grannies, hey would see medicine and food
Are you sure about this? I'm guessing any money that gets made from the mass privatization of Venezuela's assetts will end up in some tax haven like British Virgin Islands or whatever, not shared amongst the general population. After all, these people aren't socialists. They'll get into power, sell everything, get their kickbacks, then move to the states.
I appreciate you don't want to talk about the broader economic implications cos you have your own ideology to push, but you'd have to be very naive to think the Venezuelan right are going to suddenly solve all these problems overnight, since their roots lie in much larger international economic probems that a small country like Venezuela has no control over.
Even if you had the most uncorruptable people on earth as your government, much the same problem would exist. The Venezuelan right know this, they know that there's nothing they can do to change the value of oil or stop the decline of their currency, so my best guess is if/when they take power they'll simply take the money and run. I base this not on my own political beliefs just an objective attempt to analyze the situation.
>>74139458
Nationaliam incepted from Europe because many our indigenous European ancestors were a bunch of half starved and feudal neanderthal like savages that were constantly trying to wipe each other out.
>>74140097
*Nationalism
>>74139724
The chavistas were the ones that ineptly handled it though. They spent all of the proceeds on handouts and saved none of it. This has been repeated, but other oil exporters haven't done nearly as bad and aren't going to. No one is starving in Qatar or Russia and I doubt that they will.
>>74140094
>or stop the decline of their currency
Inflation is a monetary phenomenon, the fundamental cause of it is the central bank/government. If they keep printing money in order to, in practice, default on their debts, thereby making their currency be worth trash, that's their own fault not the global economy.
>>74139974
>Oil reached all-time highs and stayed above $100 for more than 3 years
No oil reached it's all time high in late 2007 and then totally collapsed. It's had an uneven recovery since then, with much more price volatility, before being sent into yet another tailspin in 2014, but the oil shock caused inflation and triggered a process of inflation that Venezuela hasn't been able to get out of.
Prior to 2008 oil had been steadily rising in price, for years, and nearly every advanced economy on earth had expected it to do so more or less indefinitely or at least to plateau. Hence all the vast and costly attempts to build pipelines all over, investing in fracking, tar sands, russia planting a flag on the north poll and so on. Since the 2008 was unexpected, many of the countries that went all-in on oil and commodities, have struggled to cope with it's after affects. Some have managed ok but some haven't. The long-term implications of the collapse in commodities are only just sinking in, it's entirely possible that for example Saudi could be in the same situation 5 years from now once their cash reserves run out. Russia too, although my gut instinct is they'll find ways around it since they always have done.
>>74135293
Venezuela was a great place to live if you belong to the elite. Otherwise, you were fucked up. Chavez gave the vast majority education, food, shelter and basic stuff with the oil money but things are failing apart again. I'm with >>74134216
Guys I've figured it out
the solution is [spoiler]more socialism
>>74140094
Your reasoning's gotten more and more pathetic.
I'm beginning to wonder if you're actually just fucking trolling.
No sympathy for a closeted-commie either.
>>74125859
Argentinian sounds the best to non-speakers
t. gringo
>>74140517
Propping it up on oil was flawed to begin with though. They used it so much that they needed each barrel at more then $100, which they must've realized waan't sustainable
>>74140434
>Inflation is a monetary phenomenon, the fundamental cause of it is the central bank/government
Pretty much. All hyperinflations happen because of reckless money printing. You'd think after all these years governments would learn, but the temptation to spend your way into reelection and deal with the fallout later is just too much.
It's the reason Central Banks in most countries are independent, if not outright private (like the Federal Reserve).
>>74137706
Central Americans are literally niggers. The indians died for the diseases so they were replaced by slaves
>>74140740
>It's the reason Central Banks in most countries are independent, if not outright private (like the Federal Reserve).
o common, you could at least try to pretend you are Argentinean
>>74140434
But why are they printing money? That's related to the loss of revenue the oil shocks have caused, Amerians here might have heard of a similar thing happening in the USA in the 70's, it's not some random thing.
>>74140193
Well what you call handouts most people would simply call "functioning infrastructure" having a comprehensive education and healthcare system is far from being a handout in my opinion it's a priority and furthermore Chavez was elected with a mandate to do exactly that.
I agree they should've invested in a sovereign wealth fund, but the priority at the time was basically improving welfare of the citizens, Chavez would've been voted out office if they'd spent the oil money on investments instead of public spending.
And even if they had, the only thing it would've done is bought Venezuela time, it wouldn't have changed the fundamentals of the situation.
>>74140193
>This has been repeated, but other oil exporters haven't done nearly as bad and aren't going to
What about Iraq?
Venezuela has more dependency on oil than nearly every state on earth and has powerful enemies in the US state dept, but it's certainly not the only the only county with a large oil industry suffering through this problem.
If oil doesn't increase in value within the next 2 or 3 years Saudi's cash reserves and sovereign wealth assetts will be exhausted and they'll have great difficulty in getting basic goods into the country. Outside of oil Saudi's main export is dates ffs, and the country doesn't have a strong work ethic or a large population of skilled workers that can be put to use on other projects. It will take a few years, but there's no doubt in my mind Saudi could end up just as fucked up as anywhere.
Likewise Nigeria could collapse, since their oil revenue is what holds together the country.
>>74140616
To me obviously it feels very natural but I've been told we speak Spanish with an Italian accent, as in, it sounds like Italian to the untrained ear.
It must be pretty funny to non-argies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyUNV80qQR8
>>74140858
¿Que dije de malo nabo? Tenemos problemas con la inflacion (no al nivel de venezuela pero altisima) justamente porque no cuidamos la independencia del Banco Central.
>>74140740
>It's the reason Central Banks in most countries are independent
Nominally independent. That's just to insulate central banks from democracy, the state still grants them legitimacy to do what they do just ouside the realm of public control.
>>74141083
>Advertising (all forms) is not welcome—this includes any type of referral linking, "offers", soliciting, begging, stream threads, etc.
>>74140662
I know but Venezuela is a fucked republic. I think the correct term is Banana republic.
they have burnt through 1/3rd of their foreign reserve
>>74140966
>But why are they printing money?
because they are fucking retards who'd rather drain away the wealth of the common citizens rather than sell state assets and fire a mass of parasitic bureaucrats to get their budget in check.
let me remind you that rich people can protect themselves from inflation (foreign currencies, land property). Poor people cannot, they have barely any savings.
> similar thing happening in the USA in the 70's
Yes, under Nixon until Carter.
Reagan fixed it.
>>74140966
Building hundreds of thousands of free houses isn't a priority. We have free healthcare and free primary schooling, not nearly as expensive. With the amount of money they spent they should've had world class schools. Instead they made gasoline basically free, began handing out free houses, hired hundreds thousands of people to "work" for the government as a form of welfare, and began scapegoating business owners when the house of cards began to fall of apart. For the money spent their healthcare was pretty shitty too.
>>74141135
That's a good thing.
When politicians control the money printers they can do disasters. Particularly untrained, ignorant politicians like Maduro the bus driver.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/venezuela/inflation-cpi
>>74141071
Kek
el banco central argentino fue creado por banqueros ingleses y manejado por ellos hasta que Peron lo nacionalizo
SI lo haces privado le estas dando un poder semjante al del presidente de a un tipo que no elige nadie
Ni siquiera estoy seguro que el presidente elige quien trabaja en el banco con excepcion de presidente tal como en la reserva federal yankee
Lo que dijiste no lo diria ninguna persona de ningun pais
>>74141195
OK just thought I would post it since it has something to do with what I do no problem thought I would get the word out
>>74141261
They're fucked
Despiden gente, ajustan servicios publicos que todos usamos, prostituyen nuestra soberania quitando impuestos a mineras extranjeras de grueso calibre, aumenta la delincuencia. Ah, pero claro, Macri genera empleo de """"""""""""""""""""""""calidad""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Estan asesinando a la Argentina.
¿Por que Macri no exime a las pymes de pagar un porcentaje del sistema impositivo a cambio de contratar jovenes para que puedan aprender un oficio y tener un futuro?
Macri es un lacayo del imperio.
>>74141285
>Building hundreds of thousands of free houses isn't a priority.
It might not be your priority, but if you don't hav access to adaquet housing I suspect it would be pretty high on your priority list. It's really behind food, water and oxygen when it comes to basic needs. But this is a matter of political priorities, and yours were obviously different to that of the people who voted for Chavez.
>>74141354
Politicians do control it though, they're just not elected or accountable to the general public. Public finances are an inherently political instrument.
>>74141398
Un banco central público nunca funciona. El de nosotros solo esta funcionandi por qué es semi privado, es decir, es independiente del gobierno. Mejor que banquero maneje un banco que un tipo que es elegido more millones de personas que ni saben como funcionan los bonos, el interés, y los préstamos.
>>74141398
Justamente con Perón empieza la debacle argentina de pasar de estar entre los 10 paises más ricos del mundo a competir con Chile o Polonia.
Entre 1810 y 1945 mientras el BCRA fue privado tuvimos un promedio de inflación del 2% anual. Cuando lo nacionalizan la inflación se dispara con Perón a los dos dígitos y más.
Con suerte Macri nos puede devolver un Banco Central independiente. No hace falta que lo privatize, pero sí que le den una carta orgánica fuerte y no dejen que ningún Presidente le meta mano nunca más.
>>74141630
>prefiero que alguien a quien no lo voto o eligio nadie tenga poder completo sobre el sistema financiero y la economia de todo el pais
>Es mejor que una elite extranjero controle la economia de tu pais que el gobierno elegido
Por que te cambiaste la banderita?
>>74136406
You should not talk about Foro de São Paulo. One cannot simply do that.
>>74137967
If you think the new Brazilian government is as corrupt as the communists we just got rid of, you have to stop believing in the mainstream media.
>>74141582
99% of them had houses. I can guarantee that they sold the ones that were given to them, it's what happens here. Goes like this
>person lives on riverside
>flood happens, gov evecuates them, builds them apartment
>they sell it, build another shack on the river, use excess money for the lottery, sports betting, drugs, hookers, etc
You have no idea how dumb these people are. You have no idea how much of a leech a lot of latin americans are. I can go on and on about how things like the labour laws already favors lazy bums, about how things work general, but that would take forever.
>>74141577
no te esfuerces
los argentinos de /pol/ son los autistas repatriados de taringa mas manipulados que van a defender a macri aun cuando ya no puedan ni pagar la conexion a internet
una maxima en psicologia es "ante una situacion de engaño, el estafado siempre va a ser el ultimo en querer admitir que fue estafado"
>>74141988
>If you think the new Brazilian government is as corrupt as the communists we just got rid of
If you describe the PT as communists then you're probably a right-winger who is willfully blind to the numerous legal investigations for graft and corruption the new government is going through.
>>74126484
we talk like shit and everyone know it famaland
>>74141801
Quién dijo que era un extranjero? El dirigente aquí es dominicano. Y está haciendo un buen trabajo. Yo no confío en la mayoría de los votantes suficiente para eso. Tratan a la política como un juego de beisbol.
>>74140471
>oil reached it's all time high in late 2007 and then totally collapsed.
Ok
>It's had an uneven recovery since then, with much more price volatility
Before the crash, not really senpai. It was pretty consistent at 100-120 dollars per barrel for a good 3 years. You might be getting confused with natural gas, which started collapsing in 2008 and hasn't stopped yet.
>>74136388
And you are insinuating that the same standards applied to non-socialist societies wasn't better in 1991 than 1917?
Now compare and constrast the standard of living between soviet citizens in 91 and american citizens in 91.
There is no comparison.
>>74126885
nice one Ahmed
>>74142094
And another deluded socialist appears.
>>74141577
Eso mismo hicieron los 2 K por una decada , en los ultimos a;os con el dolar blue hicieron lo mismo que los milicos en los 70s
>>74141757
>Entre 1810 y 1945 mientras el BCRA fue privado tuvimos un promedio de inflación del 2% anual. Cuando lo nacionalizan la inflación se dispara con Perón a los dos dígitos y más.
eum el primer gobierno de Peron tuvo 0 problemas, en 4 a;os creo un culto que dura hasta el dia de hoy, tuvieron un default pero por una deuda del 1900.
Me parece que te estas confundiendo el gobierno de Peron con las dictaduras apoyadas por la misma gente que Peron hecho
>>74142201
Que no elige nadie ni responde a nadie y que puede ser comprado por gente extranjera. Al banco americano tambien lo dirige un americano y aun asi se roban todo. El banco central de la unioen europea es independiente y controla a los demas bancos privados y todos los paises tienen aun mas deuda que nuestros paises. Irlanda tiene como 1000% del PBI, Inglaterra 300% ,etc
>>74142466
Imagen equivocada
>>74142413
No point even arguing with them, no point typing a wall of text even, they don't care. Economics needs to be mandatory in schools starting in the first grade. Maybe that's the only way they'll get it.
>>74142413
no, por favor pelotudo
veni a explicarme a mi de economia y sociopolitica argentina
also
>says the guy from a country whose biggest export are black prostitutes
oh teh national pride
>>74141988
You are just buying the shit the leftist network is selling you. Where do you get you info from? Glenn Greenwald? Together with the Castros, PT is the milestone of the communist movement in Latin America. Have you ever even heard about Foro de São Paulo?
The new government has exactly three people being investigated and all of them were key players in Dilma's government. Dilma's government had nineteen ministers under investigation. And, what's more, the new government is not trying to corrupt our institutions.
>>74142166
Check: >>74142599
>>74142585
>reading the works of marx, gramsci and foucault is le hard ;__;
>>74142466
>>74142497
La deuda externa la contraen los gobiernos.
Aca estamos hablando de inflación.
Deuda =/= Inflación
Así y todo el peronismo defaulteó 4 veces.
>>74126885
>commie-shitholes propped up by unsustainable commodity prices fail when commodities normalize
>i-its not the governments faults, its the commodities fault!!!1
bongcucks gonna cuck
>>74142675
please read this on your spare time:
http://www.rogerscruton.com/articles/1-politics-and-society/83-confessions-of-a-sceptical-francophile.html
>>74142466
Le estas echando la culpa al banco central de la UE que Irlando cogió demasiado préstamos? Y España, y Portugal, y Bélgica, y todos los otros? Eso viene desde hace mucho tiempo.
>>74142743
cool, i guess this blogpost means the entire and extremly complex history of the historic materialism school of thought is poopy
>>74142586
I think you mean
>says the guy who's country has the fastesr growth in the Americas
>says the guy who's biggest export is services in the form of tourism, followed by financial services, manufactured goods, and agriculture
But keep living in ignorance
>>74142907
The post isn't really about economy. You're judging before reading it. Just bookmark it for later.
>>74125160
Chile managed not to fall to socialism I think
>>74142694
KEK
Por que te pensas que los paises se endeudan o imprimen dinero? Porque necesitan capital, osea que alguein se robo tanto que tuvieron que pedir prestado, eso genera intereses que tienen que ser pagados
y eso ocurrio justamente en los gobiernos de la dictadura y en los ultimos a;os de democracia que no lo son democraticos ya que tuvimos 2 golpes de estados (alfonsin, De la Rua). Menem sigui con todo lo que hizo la dictadura y Cristina en estos ultimos a;os tambien copio algunas cosas
Ademas los monopolios tambien creados durante la dictadura pueden arreglar los precios y causar inflacion artificialmente
De hecho asi empezo nuestra inflacion. Del a nada la Carne aumento de $20 pesos a $50 el kilo haya en el 2009, el tomate un dia aumento de $1.50 a $6, el dolar no habia cambiado ni nada, fue decision de ellos. Un mes despues empezaron los aumentos de todo
Los grupos financieros tambien pueden hacer lo mismo,vendiendo acciones, bajandonos el rating de credito, bloqueandonos de credito , creando burbujas ,etc. El costo de las propiedades en Argentina en solo 20 a;os crecio 300-400% en dolares
>>74142784
A todos los organismos supra nacionales que deciden las politicas de estado de cada pais dirigidos por gente que no elige nadie y de ascendencia judia
>>74142923
yeah sure
dominican republic, the latinamerican capital of child prostitution is doing a lot better than argentina during the kirchner years
just dont let those pesky cold hard facts get in the way
in terms of quality of life you're closer to africa than argentina
probably not after macri, but that's the free market for you
>>74142675
>listening to a literal communist like gramsci
>>74143336
>reading actual academic books is le hard
>jaypegs on a cantonese origami image board is all the education i need
>am i red pilled yet burgerclap masters?
>>74143317
>Por que te pensas que los paises se endeudan o imprimen dinero?
No es lo mismo. Una cosa es endeudarse y otra es "imprimir dinero". Una tiene que ver con la política fiscal y otra con la monetaria.
>osea que alguein se robo tanto que tuvieron que pedir prestado
Eh? Tu comprensión de economía es la de un chico de 5 años, abrí un libro hermano.
No tiene nada de malo tener deficit fiscal (gastar más de lo que entra) si es algo temporal, el problema es cuando se prolonga en el tiempo. No necesariamente "robaron" para que haya deficit fiscal, cuando se gasta en salud y educación también tiene que haber plata para cubrir ese gasto. (impuestos)
>pueden arreglar los precios y causar inflacion artificialmente
La inflación la crean los gobiernos con una política monetaria erronea. (imprimiendo más plata que lo que la economía demanda)
Sinceramente la gente como vos no debería tener derecho al voto. Aprender lo básico de economía te puede tomar una semana como mucho, pero es mucho trabajo para vos parece, encima con internet en la punta de tus dedos.
Aún asi te sentis capacitado para opinar de temas que se nota a un kilometro que no tenes la más reputisima idea.
Abrí un libro, no muerden.
http://www.econo.unlp.edu.ar/uploads/docs/clase_2_economia.pdf
>>74143450
I just feel need to waste my time reading more books done by communists than I already have. But if you want to strawman I can do that too.
>ebul yanqui imperialistas are keeping is down :(
>our problems aren't caused by inept retards, it's those kike imperialists!
>communism has never been tried before the right way!
>>74143320
Los resultados de las políticas económicas se ven a largo plazo, por eso nos fueron pasando países que eran más pobres que nosotros como Italia, España, Corea del Sur, Japón, etcetera.
Acá el único que se expresa como un negro ignorante sos vos, no el Dominicano. Con esas actitudes de zurdito resentido también nos pueden llegar a superar los Dominicanos en una década o dos.
>>74143770
Don't feel*
>>74143646
no te gastes
deja que el gobierno que voto le explique por las malas porque no esta gobernando para su clase
>>74125160
Time for operation condor 2
