>minimum wage increases to $15/hr
>spending power of working class increases
>huge corporations can't afford it, raise prices
>middle class thrives as they can now compete with these corporations
How exactly does socialism not work?
it obviously does work. If you're against socialism you're admitting that the GOP has successfully brainwashed you
>>56458381
>Minimum wage forcibly increased to $15/hr
>suddenly businesses cant deal with that so they cut jobs
>Suddenly everyone loses their job and thus has no money to spend
Kek
>>56458570
What jobs can they afford to lose exactly? You don't think they'd cut all extraneous costs right now if they could?
>>56458570
>More taxes on the rich to pay for unemployed benefits
>Rich leave the country
>Suddenly there is no money and no jobs
>Debt goes through the roof
>"Dude,FREE college!"
>>56458570
"No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country"
-fdr
if your business cant afford to pay $15/hr you deserve to go out of business.
>>56458716
>Rich leave the country
Ah yes, I can't count how many times this has happened literally ever in history.
>>56458381
>socialists drive up inflation rates
>value of currency decreases
>$15/hr has the same purchasing power as $7.25 once did
>HOW EXACTLY DOES SOCIALISM NOT WORK?
Why don't we just raise the minimum wage to $50/hr?
The minimum wage originated as a means to discourage child labor; taking burger orders isn't worth $7.25/hr much less $15.
>>56458716
>>56458778
And where would they go? Norway? Sweden? Any country in Europe that taxes the shit out of them to pay for universal health care and free education? lol
>>56458381
>How exactly does socialism not work?
Socialism is a naive idea based on a utopian view of society where everyone only takes what they need and gives up everything else from the goodness of their heart.
The reality is that people are greedy.
We see it with welfare and every other social system already in place and people will always
ALWAYS
choose themselves over the greater good if there is no ready consequence to discourage it.
The reality of the situation you outlined is that currency would inflate while companies lay of people and automation becomes more fiscally viable compared to the alternative.
More people would end up on social welfare programs and less people would actually be working.
Anybody working would just be a mule to carry the rest of society on their back and eventually they would catch and and ride one of the other mules instead of continuing to be one.
We already see a trend like this with workforce participation plummeting under Obama and Sanders would but that trend right over the cliff and ruin everything for good.
>>56458868
You don't know the difference between socialism and communism. Stop posting.
>>56458776
>Quoting a piece of shit who enabled boomers to burden debt on the later generations
>>56458859
Sweden has a lower business tax than America. It's the income and goods tax that is higher to provide benefits.
How about instead of increasing the minimum wage, we re-industrialize and expand our markets by becoming producers again? Jobs come back, wages go up, everyone wins.
>>56458381
I don't need to explain why it doesn't work, just as I don't need to explain why a rock falls back to the ground when I throw it.
It is demonstrably true.
Look at every single nation that has tried it.
They have collapsed economically after years of hardship and had to rebuild with the free market.
>>56458959
>writing off and entire post just because you can't be bothered to actually argue your point
This is why liberals will never win.
>>56458778
It's happening a lot more in countries like China, where Macao, HK, and Singapore are easy options. It's also happened with a number of US corporations.
>>56458995
Why do you think we need to re-industrialize? You want to mold the economy. You sound like a central planner.
>>56458962
>internet neckbeard says FDR is a piece of shit without sourcing anything
>instantly my argument is refuted
>>56458381
Your logic hurts my brain
>>56458381
Did you try looking at the past twelve times it's been tried?
>>56458381
>huge corporations can't afford it, raise prices
>middle class thrives
DOES NOT COMPUTE
>>56458995
Oh, and we are producers. The US produced almost 17 trillion dollars worth of goods and services in 2013. So I don't know what you're trying to say.
>socialism is a utopian view
that always makes me kek because socialism accounts for shit going wrong in life. You get knocked up? Don't worry mang, we got abortion. You just having a bad time with health? no worries, everyone got insurance. Have a kid? Don't worry, you're getting plenty of time off to be with them during these important formative months
Conservative ideals just seem to think nothing bad can happen to anyone and if it does that you're not worthy of help
>How exactly does socialism not work?
You'll eventually run out of other people's money.
![screen%20shot%202015-04-23%20at%2011.55.25%20am[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/WFkpV5J.jpg "screen%20shot%202015-04-23%20at%2011.55.25%20am[1]")
>>56459022
>Look at every single nation that has tried it.
ok
>>56458868
underrated toast
>>56459022
>>56459175
do literally 1 google search. Democratic socialism is working well in sweden, norway, and the netherlands. Just do some basic research so you don't need to rely on adults to prove you wrong
>>56458381
>I SAID IT, THEREFORE IT TRUE
>>56459022
thanks for the real truth fellow britbong
>>56458381
That's the secret, anon. It doesn't.
>>56459068
China is capitalist. Everyone knows this by now.
Because the funny cartoon man said so.
>>56459138
> fdr is good guys
> my proof is that i believe it
>>56459235
Probably because you didn't finish reading, dumbass.
>>56459292
No, you just don't get it anon. You're wrong because a businessman who's using the election to sell his book and fashion line said so.
>>56459265
That's wrong
We just think people should help themselves rather than to rely on big brother
>>56459292
>muh feels the graphic
lmaoing at you
>>56458776
>if your business cant afford to pay $15/hr you deserve to go out of business.
This is why government regulations hurt small businesses more than corporations. Because small businesses will go out of business from these types of regulations.
>>56459290
That's a stupid quote that makes literally no sense and if you use it you should kill yourself.
>>56459138
>literally too stupid to know the actions of a man he's quoting
>is somehow oblivious of the New Deal
>LOL UR A NECKBEARD
Maybe you should have paid attention in your high school history classes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_Act
>>56459399
i dont know if you finished high school, but in a class called "American history" we learned about the programs FDR created to prevent mass unemployment. since then we've never seen mass unemployment.
>>56458776
I live in a more rural area. Many small business would not be able to survive with a 15/hr min wage. The thing is, most of the jobs around here that don't have a livable wage are for teenagers/young adults. With capitalism you have to bring something to the table to deserve your paycheck. If you have no skills, won't do a hard day's work, and bring no value to the business you shouldn't be paid like you are. For people that want to make more then minimum wage, they should learn a trade, learn some skills, so they can bring value to the table so they can get a decent paying job.
>>56459486
that's why small businesses get tax cuts and special exceptions
duh
>>56459476
>quoting Nietzsche
one of the most contradictory men in all of philosophy is not who you should go to for quotes on how politics should work
>>56459349
It's funny because the second poster you quoted is much more guilty of what you accused me of.
>>56459575
>they should learn a trade, learn some skills
>too poor to go to college or trade school
>have to keep working shit minimum wage jobs to just afford necessities
you ask a lot of people whose situation you don't comprehend
>>56459479
So you just ignore basic psychology to argue your point? Do you have aspergers?
>>56459292
>>56459316
>SOCIALISM HAPPENED IN 1960 AND WE'RE ONLY NOW ON THE BRINK OF COLLAPSE, IT'S WORKING GUYS, IT'S WORKING
All socialism is the result of people leeching from a nation that became wealthy through self-interest and hard work.
Please, through random sampling find 20 different policies of govt intervention in the USA, and I will guarantee you that the majority of them are fucking balls.
>>56459316
>B-but it works for these countries with a few million people, that means it'll work here with 301 million+ people and an entirely different setup!
As you liberals like to say, do some research.
>>56459540
based finland
>>56459622
Nobody bothered to respond to his obvious bait.
>>56459444
More money changing hands doesn't = wealth faggot.
>>56459559
why did these programs not work until world war II had started?
remember, once unemployment reached double digits it did not come back down until world war II. you miss that day of "american history" class?
>>56459559
>the programs FDR created to prevent mass unemployment
Oh, please share these magical programs that will prevent mass unemployment.
>>56459596
Whatever, nerd.
Try and argue my point next time.
>>56459709
What fucking necessities?
Get a loan or a dad or something
>>56459732
>implying
The biggest problem with socialism is letting people flood in and abuse the system. Within a contained system where those who put something in get something out of it, it works well.
>>56459833
duh we just force companies to hire people ez np 0 unemployment
USA USA USA
>>56459833
I have one:
Print money and use it to pay people to dig a hole then fill it back in.
See: employment matters above all else!
>>56459819
>not work
now you're just telling falsities. It's true that WWII jumpstarted the US economy as we began prepping for war and creating all the arms and things needed, but we know that FDR's programs did help things
>>56459732
Okay, I randomly sampled every policy in the New Deal and they seem pretty great.
>>56459316
> Democratic socialism is working in countries with completely different demographics than the United States
Last time I checked sweden's population was less than one thirtieth of the United States with a completely different culture. But sure if it works somewhere else it will obviously work the same everywhere.
If there's no downside to raising minimum wage, why stop at $15/hr?
Why are you so fucking cruel? The minimum wage should be $100/hr.
>>56458776
>Small fire, EMS, and police departments deserve to be shut down because they can't pay their employees
If I were still working at my old department, I'd be shitting my pants at the prospect of the minimum wage going up to $15 an hour because they literally could not afford it and my job would be on the chopping block.
But money grows on trees to liberals.
>>56459899
food?
electricity?
>get a loan
ah yes glorious unrestrained loans from banks that goes great
>a dad
and what if your parents were put in jail on a felony for weed back in the day? There goes most high paying jobs for them.
step it up fuckwit
>>56459316
>listing the small, homogenous, predominately white European countries
It's almost as if nobody there works for minimum wage.
>>56459709
You can take a welding apprenticeship here and get paid 20/hr while learning how to weld. Also people can always go into manual labor, you can make a decent living for a hard day's work if you try
>>56458381
>be liberal
>argue our economy depends on illegal immigrant labour getting paid below minimum wage
>be liberal
>argue we need 15 an hour for those poor oppressed black youth
>argue the current minimum wage is not enough to live on
>but wait, illegal immigrants can get by just fine
fuck off berniegger.
>>56459742
This argument is regurgitated endlessly and no one stops to think how little sense it makes. We already divide the country up into states, then counties, then cities. This is how we collect taxes for...wait for it...capitalism! Literally what is the difference? It's a little harder to enforce? Great, that creates jobs.
>>56460056
>fire, EMS, police departments
>businesses and not part of the federal government
how fucking stupid can you be anon
>>56458381
>Increase minimum wage
>Companies now have more incentive to automate low end jobs
>Increases unemployment rate among the lower class
ITS KEKTASTIC
>>56459596
>that's why small businesses get tax cuts and special exceptions
I didn't realize small businesses were gonna get an exception to federal minimum wage.
>>56460186
Fire, EMS, and police are municipal entities you fucking retard. Do liberals even bother to verify their claims to even the most minimum level before they open their mouths?
>>56460195
>forced to pay 15/hr
>given huge tax cuts so things are equaled out and your employees now have more dough to spend
huh, wow!
>>56458570
to bad this NEVER HAPPENS. minimum wage has been increased many times. where is the evidence that it causes a rise in unemployment?
this is one of the idiotic things Fox News constantly repeats. that and their admiration for the totally immoral and unconstitutional policy of "stop and frisk."
regardless of the facts, they'll continue to regurgitate these talking points and so will you, fuckface.
>>56460191
It's honestly one of the few things I kind of support when it comes to liberals.
As long as it's mercilessly enforced and no more under the table wages are being paid below minimum wage then a higher minimum wage could bring forth a new era in the united states.
We could be having robots do tons of shit as labour becomes expensive. Sucks for the niggers and spics who dont have jobs any more lel.
>>56459993
>culture
lol, isn't this what you conservaturds scoff at in every other context?
>>56460298
>municipalities
>still not part of the government
please
>>56459978
they helped prolong the depression, sure.
>>56460186
>local municipal services are part of the federal government
>government employees are excluded from minimum wages
How fucking stupid can you be?
>>56460004
Because the point isn't to make big corporations go completely bankrupt.
>>56459596
How would small business compete if anyone could get a higher paying job at a Walmart/fast food? It will still hurt small businesses
>>56458776
>if your business cant afford to pay $15/hr you deserve to go out of business.
So... All small business deserve to go out of business? Found the Jew.
>>56460369
no, they actually improved unemployment and the general situation, quite a bit more than simply doing jackshit
Why keep denying history?
>>56459992
Want to list them?
How about evaluate their consequences rather than their intentions.
Government policies tend to have "good intentions", or at least appear to be "benevolent". Then they do fuck all, or more likely, do more harm than good.
Then people rally for more socialism because capitalism ruined the utopia of rent control, public housing, public schools, minimum wages, quotas, tariffs, embargos, regulatory institutions (such as those for rail [that somehow managed to destroy the trucking industry], medicine, boats, cars, general safety, monopoly, the list goes on), state provided licenses, affirmative action, "free" higher education, the welfare state, medicare, medicaid, need I list more? Failed policies, wastes of money, harbingers of the stagnant nation of government dependant leeches and spineless cowards
>>56458381
>huge corporations can't afford it, raise prices
yeah, if they imperative is to take 99.999999% of the profits and make everyone fight over the remainder.
raising the min wage is like multiplying both sides by 2, same ratio.
real change is to stop the greed of the rich
>>56460315
also i am not in favor of socialism, just tired of hearing the same nonsense every day.
>>56460084
Maybe don't eat at kosher delight everyday faggot
Get a job and save money and don't buy dumb shit.
I live on 2 bucks of food a day nigga it's not hard
>>56460090
Also this
Trade jobs here need young people so badly that's why they are lobbying for the refugees so hard
Because liberal dumbshit white kids are too fucking dumb to do those jobs
>>56460114
>we collect taxes for capitalism
Too kek
>>56460315
it doesn't matter how many times their claims are refuted, they just straight up ignore them. literally pretend that they don't exist and never happened. it's made conservatives in this country occupy an almost parallel reality. it's insane.
>>56460103
>but wait, illegal immigrants can get by just fine
No one has said this ever.
>>56460465
taking a six month depression and turning it into over 10 years isn't helpful
>>56460364
>Gubmint means unlimited funding at any level
No. Just no. Emergency services are run exactly like businesses. They are constrained by income through taxes and billing just like a business. If they don't have money to pay their employees, they don't magically make more. They lay off. A lot. Stations close. Response times dwindle. People die.
Please educate yourself.
>>56459725
There are plenty of other factors that can be associated with hapiness aside of money, making the graphic invalid, also look at my country, its as socialist as all of those, yet we are no where to be seen in it, even brazil, known for its favelas and corruption is ahead.
tho im not surprised by the fact ud think money=hapiness
I you knew anything about Marxism, you'd know that Marxists hate the middle class, and are trying to destroy it.
The middle class is a group of people who are trying to be successful and 'make it' in a capitalist society. They are traitors to the proletariat, and must be destroyed one way or another. That is why democrats/socialists wage economic terrorism on society with their insane rules like having a high minimum wage.
>>56460530
all dat callous
>2 bucks
>on food
big bad anon leaving out rent, electricity, water bill, clothes, gas, etc
nice
>>56460090
>manual labour
And what about a poor single mother with 3 mouths to feed?
Do you really expect a woman to do grunt work for a living?
>>56460315
Every time it's increased it's to keep up with inflation.
>>56460313
prove that they're equaled out.
do it.
>>56460392
>government employees are excluded from minimum wages
Not municipal public servants, otherwise we wouldn't make what little we make now. What a fantastic world you live in. Use your head.
>>56460603
you misunderstand marxist theory. they want to destroy the middle class as it exists in a capitalist context. they want the end result--via marxism--to be just as comfortable as the middle class looks today, but with a different philosophy behind it.
>>56460352
No culture is what liberals say are equal. Liberals are the ones who believe in cultural relativism. Obviously culture factors into how an economic system can work.
>>56460313
Why not just abolish income tax so the people don't need higher wages because they keep more of what they earn?
>>56460490
>muh greedy rich
Define rich and greedy
>>56460557
Being somebody who has actually worked manual labor with actual border hoping Mexicans I can actually speak from experience. These guys work harder at $8-10 an hour than any nigger would at any rate, and still manage to send ~$800 back home every month. When you don't waste your money on frivolous bullshit you can make a wage go a long way.
>>56458381
Because your assertions are incorrect.
Huge corporations are the only ones who can afford a minimum wage hike. It's the small and mid-sized businesses which will cut back the workforce the most.
Benie Sanders is a corporatist tool.
Besides prices will rise to balance out the new income levels and even out higher across the board for the now fewer people with meaningful employment. The ones who suffer? Those would be the poor who will have nothing but everything will be more expensive.
So Benie Sanders hates the poor too.
But I have called you out on your bullshit and provided truth which you cannot deny, so go ahead and call me crazy in an attempt to discredit me, or just delete the thread like you usually do.
>>56460346
If anything this is what people should be worried about more than ISIS. In 20 years, assuming we make it 20 years, automation will take over a lot of lower end jobs. This will leave a lot of people out of work.
It COULD usher in a system where everyone is taken care of, and if you want a little bit extra you can by working the more complicated jobs. But that won't happen.
>>56460490
>stop the greed of the rich
Fucking please
the rich are as greedy as you
they just have bureaucrats at their backs
>>56460603
your rhetoric is so biased it's incredible
"insane rule"
"terrorism" was a very nice one to use what with Paris still in the mind good way to build that connotation
"destroy"
"destroyed"
"wage"
"hate"
very unbiased
>>56458381
most people dont work for huge corporations though, they work for small businesses. And small business owners are seldom rich, where are they going to get the money to give their employees a 50%+ raise without raising prices?
>>56459367
And that hasn't stopped them looking more aggressively towards those that made comparatively-easy fortunes during the period of capitalization
>>56460781
You're agreeing with me...
The anon I was replying to implied what I was quoting.
>>56459559
>implying during FDR's presidency employment rates didn't pick up until a little event called World War 2.
>implying FDR didn't extend the Great Depression by several years.
>>56460315
It depends how high it's raised of course. The reason it hasn't caused severe job losses in the past is because raises have usually been very small. The most effect it will have is on business growth. They'll spend less on employing *new* employees. This is why unions are greedy - they want more money for the current workers, meaning fewer eventual new workers.
You forgot to put an arrow that says you get shot by the government next
>>56460737
I think that no one should be put in that position. Why would a someone have three kids, with no financial security or a strong household. Everyone makes their own choices, including her having three kids. You have to own up to your responsibilities
>>56460974
Shit, how'd I miss that?
My bad, anon.
>>56460554
>conservatives in this country occupy an almost parallel reality
don't go there. if any political group is living in a parallel reality it's liberals.
however, this is one of the few conservative talking points that is blatantly false.
>>56459055
Liberals have never operated on logic or reason.
They only have the emotional and the rote learning they received from indoctrination sources.
>>56460918
Why argue against his position when you can argue against his rhetoric, right?
>>56460996
People say the fact that he stopped the spending was the reason it didn't work.
>>56460851
you literally don't know what you're talking about
>>56461082
I don't know why they link it to unemployment so often. Unemployment is often not the result of an increase in the price of wages, the result is clearly inflation,
>>56460707
I got a house and a nice job
:^)
>>56458381
>Minimum wage increases to 15$/hr
>Spending power of working class depreciates
>Huge corporations can afford it. They cut employees and still keep the same amount of profit.
>Small business can't compete. They cut employment and raise prices to stay in business. Consumers now buy from large corporations, putting mom and pop shops out of business.
>Large business lose their competition
>Middle class dies off.
Socialism everybody. Not even once.
>>56458381
How does raising the minimum wage help the middle class compete with corporations? If anything, small businesses will be hurt more by minimum wage increases, as they operate on smaller profit margins. Then, of course, there are layoffs, the prices of goods go up, and your newly found $15 buys even less. How do people not understand this basic concept?
>>56461101
>>56461082
it's the same nonsense repeated over and over and over and over again for the last 30 years by shrewd idiots like rush limbaugh.
the truth is it's the conservative mind that operates on straight up emotion. namely, fear, hate, and arrogant self-righteousness (i can't be wrong because i'm me and i trust me and therefore i'm always right).
>>56460851
Yeah its easy to save when you pay no tax and live like cockroaches
>>56458835
Oh that is saved.
But you are wrong on one point: The minimum wage originated as a means to discourage black labor.
>>56461101
we often accuse liberals of acting of "feeling" but that not exactly right.
they refuse to pass judgement that would make them racist/sexist.
because of this they often do the opposite of what is logical.
perfect example: the UN appointing Saudi Arabia to head a women's rights council.
everyone with a brain knows that's retarded. but to a liberal, this is the least judgmental decision. the effects of the decision are irrelevant to them, they made a "moral" choice.
i suppose in that way they are governed by feelings, but it's a little more specific than that.
>>56461300
I guess you're right, it's not like I worked, ate, and spent thousands of hours of my life talking with those guys; how silly of me.
>>56460477
PWA
RA
REA
WPA
NYA
CCC
AAA
NRA
FDIC
FCIC
FHA
TVA
SEC
CIO
AFL
Reciprocal Tariff Act
Social Security
Housing Act of 1937
Judiciary Reorganization Bill of 1937
Serviceman's Readjustment Act of 1944
>>56460851
This
Welfare keks and minimum wage workers in the US live a better life than 90% of the world, and yet somehow I'm supposed to feel bad for them as they're poppin' bottles at the club, texting on their iPhone 6, putting 20" rims on their new car, watching TV on their big screen. Then they buy garbage food with their foodstamps.
>>56461300
No, YOU literally have no idea what you're talking about. Look at how these people live and be honest with yourself.
>>56458381
>minimum wage increases to $15/hr
>spending power of working class increases
>huge corporations can afford it, just fire useless people
>middle class and upper lower class bomb as they can now have a harder time climbing up the financial ladder against these corporations
How exactly does socialism work?
Mega Corporations aren't stupid. Microsoft wasted billions on Minecraft just for a tax deduction.
>raise minimum wage to $15
>people stocking shelves and making sandwhiches are now making as much as a fuckin crane operator
>their wages all have to rise to compete
>small businesses cant afford to raise all of their wages for arbitrary reasons, they close
>only publically traded super corporations can survive
How the fuck could anyone in the middle class afford to start a business? Everyone would HAVE to be employed by corps or gov to survive.
>open lawn care business with hopes of eventually opening up a lawn care store
>paying people over $100 a day to cut and maintain fucking grass ontop of maintenance of vehicles, equipment, etc.
Hey ma'm would you like us to take care of your lawn for $300 a month please? :) i need to remortgage my house.
tl;dr youre a millennial kill yourself please.
>>56461345
>the conservative mind that operates on straight up emotion
emotion and an adherence to tradition. whereas liberals dismiss tradition as outdated, and therefore wrong.
>>56461507
liberal media outlets have been vocally disapproving of the saudi heading a panel on human rights. who has been telling you otherwise?
you have a cartoon conception of the political left.
Wouldn't raising the minimum wage just end up eventually raising the cost of living creating inflation?
>>56461345
Right. So when liberals want to bring refugees from the hottest terrorism zone in the world because they FEEL it's the "American thing to do," despite the FBI director saying its a huge risk, who's making decisions on emotion? Name another Republican platform issue that's based on "feelings."
>>56461753
it does, yes.
>>56461400
They actually do pay taxes; moreover they would present fraudulent social security cards so our contractor could take out taxes on their paychecks (which keeps him from getting into trouble), and then tax season would come around he would do their taxes for them.
It was all highly illegal (contractor could always plead ignorance) but they were paying into the system.
>>56460588
see >>56460392
Good job blowing each other the fuck out, conservatards.
>>56461747
really? because i watch the news every single day and I've never heard it mentioned.
you might consider the UN to be to the far-left, but they are absolutely leftist.
>>56461747
>you have a cartoon conception of the political left.
Because they are doing pretty cartoonish things
>>56461638
so how is that a bad thing
the whole selling point of capitalism is that its supposed to be responsible for streamlining everything, making robots to do human tasks is a good thing.
all these jobs that are being replaced like cashiers are shitty temporary jobs, the people that are being replaced by robots due to livable wages never intended to live their whole life at mcdonalds.
>>56460601
Aww, are you one of those "money can't buy happiness" people? But I thought conservatives were supposed to be the realistic ones.
>>56461695
liberals are more utilitarian (aka rational) and therefore don't care for tradition or elements of a given tradition if it isn't functionally useful or is outwardly harmful.
conservatives on the other hand are not rational, and believe that tradition has value inherent of itself because.....i don't even fucking know why. they think tradition justifies itself by existing? anyway, it's NOT utilitarian or pragmatic.
>>56458381
>huge corporations can't afford it, raise prices
>can't afford it, raise prices
>afford it, raise prices
>raise prices
>>56461902
See:>>56460974
We're actually in complete agreement, I was quoting an implication of the person I was replying to.
>>56461507
They are motivated by feelings, but they operate on training. They seek the least responsibility and favor promises based on what they have already been conditioned for.
It's why the democratic party can be accurately described as a loose collection of special interests.
Most minimum wage jobs aren't worth paying that much for.
If you do not aspire to get a better job than you should not get paid more.
>Blames ISIS and muslims being savages on global warming
How does socialism work again?
>>56461926
oh my god please tell me what "news" you "watch"
liberals don't watch a lot of cable news....we read written media, which is where the real journalism happens.
>>56458776
FDR whos New Deal was part of what ruined this country and sent it spiraling into a welfare state?
>>56458959
the goal of socialism is communism
>>56461928
i hope you understand that the donkey in that comic represents the american democratic party, aka the liberal party.
the irony is hilarious.
>>56461985
they value tradition because generally speaking traditional values and systems work.
they are not perfect, maybe not ideal, but they worked in the past. there's every reason to suspect they'd work now.
look at our families. ever since we changed our traditions regarding sex and marriage, divorce rates have skyrocketed and the family unit and women are ruined. at least it's easy to get laid now.
>>56460824
So how do Scandinavian countries have a drastically different culture than the U.S.?
>>56459540
>ur dum kil urself
>>56461798
Abortion and those two wars that destablized the middle east. Eat a dick or read a book i dont care which, just get off of the internet for a couple hours.
>>56460851
Yes, and what a wondrous life they live.
>>56462077
yeah! Like Personal blogs, Yahoo news, and Kotaku!
>>56459316
Yes i have no memories of goverment officals admitting that we are a sinking ship. All is fine here in sweden and democratic socialism worked out :)
>>56462247
conservatives only care about tradition so long as that tradition keeps them in a position of power.
it is no coincidence that you're lamenting how "women are ruined." it sure stings when your monopoly on the status quo is jeopardized doesn't it?
>>56459316
hahaha
man..
Democratic Socialism != Socialism
and even these countries are starting to fail
Your guys need to stop romanticising Europe.
>>56462261
>being this much of an oblivious mongoloid retard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djFx6j0E9rU
Yep, American and Scandinavian cultures are almost exactly the same, right?
> $15/hr wage established
> swaths of small businesses across the country are forced to close
> a mom and pop store in Wyoming can't afford that but liberals in cities don't care
> millions out of jobs
> megacorporations have huge layoffs to compensate
> more people on programs
> middle class destroyed
> rich get bulk of taxes now
> start to leave to avoid taxes
>>56458381
>>minimum wage increases to $15/hr
>>spending power of working class increases
nope. wait. wait right. there. stop for a minute. think about what you wrote. think back to econ... money is just paper, it has no intrinsic value, the value is determined by supply and demand. wait, you didn't know that?
>>56462350
It's far better than the life they left behind.
>>56460103
Bernie is kind of conservative on immigration so he isnt contradicting himself.
>>56462366
no, like the new york times, or the washington post, or bloomberg, or the atlantic, or myriad local news outlets from around the country.....
>>56462077
i'm not sure why you put "watch" in quotations. you don't think i actually watch tv?
if you aren't watching the news in addition to your reading, you aren't getting the whole picture.
i don't care what fringe news websites you read, i was speaking in general terms(main stream media) and they have not discussed that Saudi Arabia shit at all iirc. every liberal outlet says the same shit anyways.
>>56458778
>i don't know how Constantinople became the capital of the failing 'Roman' empire as or why Rome was collapsing on itself leading up to being sacked
>>56365159
Lol. This is true>>56458381
Anyone say niggers yet?
>>56461570
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Works_Administration
go to criticism
>RA
died within a few years due to hatred even from govt
>REA
misuse of resources, would've been done already if profitable. special pleading toward farmers, as is status quo
>WPA
just built public works with a fucktonne of taxpayer money, oh boy, what a treat
tired as fuck, can't be bothered to do the rest, likely all shit.
>>56459292
>people leeching off of the work of their ancestors makes them happy
no shit, Sherlock
doesn't make it a sound economic policy
You'd be happy too if you spent your entire life savings on a new car, at least until you got hungry.
>>56459316
>Sweden
>model nation
This is b8, whether it was intended to be or not.
>>56462694
>i'm not sure why you put "watch" in quotations. you don't think i actually watch tv?
no, i just think watching cable news is fucking ridiculous and not actually robust and informative.
>i don't care what fringe news websites you read
fringe like these? >>56462618
please join the rest of us in reality.
>>56461902
Are you retarded? Only person that got blown out was the retard liberal.
Just because I hate liberals doesn't mean I'm conservative, by the way.
>>56462205
Are you implying that the democratic party aka the liberals are not a leftist party?
Or did you seriously not understand the point of the comic?
>>56461340
To those unemployed and student liberals who have never worked a day in their life, a business means the man is evil and rich.
Don't argue with liberal
>business who can't afford xxx should die!
>middle class magically benefit because!
>die corporations die!
Seriously if they ever get to earn some money from a real job, they would shut their mouth and realize how fucking stupid they are
>>56458381
Two Scenarios Will Happen
1. Prices for goods and services will go up to match revenue lost by a company because of a wage increase
2. In order to not raise the prices of a goods or service because of new minimum wage hike the company fires workers or puts them on part time to save money
Both options will protect the businesses bottom line and this will hurt small businesses more than large corporations.
>>56462412
>believing that women were oppressed
>he doesn't know that most women want to be homemakers
you have earned 1 meme.
>>56458381
Because it's run by idiots like you.
>being this autist.
>>56462847
i assumed you read fringe papers because you made it sound like you were reading something unusual. those periodicals are exactly the same as liberal MSM you pretentious tool.
>>56462995
most women want to have the CHOICE to be homemakers or careerwomen. liberals want the option to exist, conservatives want there to be no option.
that is called oppression.
>>56458776
You'd be surprised how easily a companies profit can be squared away by that. Even sacrificing the Executive's large salary and bonuses won't do much to fix it if we are talking about a corporation like Walmart or Target.
I also work for one of those a manager. If the basic associate's wage was raised to $15 an hour, department managers would likely not receive a raise or higher pay cap. They would have very little reason to remain a DM if they can get similar pay for comparatively less and easier work.
You might think with millions in the air it would be a no brainer, but those millions go faster than you think they do when divided among thousands upon thousands of employees.
>>56458778
Everyone that had money left Russia when the communists took over.
>>56462966
>puts them on part time to save money
A lot already do that, its why people who have shit Walmart jobs can't make ends meet.
I remember getting offered sexual favors to make some of our employees hit the fulltime benefits hour floor like I could fucking control that.
>>56460863
u forgot about tax cuts ayy lmao
>>56463126
back to the parallel universe talk again. the conservative right believes that any media outlet that is not on the far political right is suspect. even centuries old, august publications with amazing track records. nope, it's all "liberal MSM"
your side has created its own little universe. you are fringe, not i.
>>56458381
Inflation til currency is meaningless
>>56463151
lmao
>>56463151
women have been working since the dawn of civilization. right along side men, busting their asses farming, crafting, etc.
it's only you liberals that pretend they've been locked in cages. forced only to have babby and wear dresses.
>>56463126
by the way, my entire point was that i'm NOT reading "something unusual," and yet i knew quite well that liberals were very very upset about the human right's council panel debacle. the thrust of my argument is that YOU are the one who is being kept in the dark or blatantly lied to.
cable news. yeah, keep watching that.
>>56461030
Spoken like a true aspie.
>>56458776
>if your labor isn't worth $15/h you don't deserve to have a job
pretty heartless, man
>>56463333
every media outlet is suspect. you're the one trying to claim your liberal outlets are somehow uniquely objective. there are plenty of idiotic conservative journalists, i basically said that in my first post. unlike you i am aware of my party's bias.
>>56463447
it is only conservatives who do not understand how oppression works (until it happens to them).
see pic related re: maternity leave
>>56461331
>Spending power of working class depreciates
Well that made no fucking sense.
>>56458381
It attempts to create equality out of a society that is inherently unequal
>>56463666
sure, every media outlet is suspect if you live in a parellel universe where you're being told all the time that every normal media outlet is suspect. they are not "uniquely objective" they are not even unique at all.
>>56463547
watching the MSM is crucial to understanding what's happening in the world.
in order to decipher the lies you have to pay attention to the ones being repeated the most.
>>56460315
Pretty much this: >>56461010
>>56463333
How do you fuck up quads that bad?
Conservative right media is based on applying time tested principals across all aspects evenly.
The liberal left media relies on media saturation and repetition.
Argumentum ad populum a little harder bro.
>>56458381
You know seeing a Sanders bumper sticker on a car angers me even more than if I saw an ISIL sticker on a car
Kill yourself socialist faggots
>>56463846
oh, i agree. i absolutely know what's going on in cable news, but i don't watch it to GET my news or to shape my opinion on a given issue, is the point.
>>56462748
>against public works projects
Pretty sure every single credible economist would disagree with you there.
>>56463842
>normal media outlet
look at how you refuse to see liberal bias. there is no point in talking with someone who denies something so incredibly blatant. you just can't fathom that 50% of America disagrees with liberalism, despite it's prevalence on TV. you need to feel like you're apart of the majority, it's pathetic. think for yourself.
>>56463904
once again, confusing cheap sensationalism with "liberal bias." i'm against sensationalism too.
however in conservative media, sensationalism isn't a bug, it's a feature.
>>56464012
that's a point nobody on this board disagrees with. even my grandmother knows the media tells lies.
hey its this fucking thread again.
>>56461671
>huge corporations can afford it, just fire useless people
Why do you retards assume corporations hire "useless people" en masse?
>>56461305
Unemployment in the U.S. before the Davis-Bacon Act was virtually zero percent. Minimum wage laws were only created because racist white unions didn't want to compete with black labor.
It worked
>>56464105
trust me, i used to think just like you. they are pissing on your leg and telling you it's raining.
there is no liberal media conspiracy. there is, however, plenty of evidence of a conservative media conspiracy (read: the Loudest Voice in the Room)
>>56458959
quit ruining my country
eat a bullet
seeing the libtards get assblasted in this thread was incredible, never change /pol/
>>56458776
>people unironically repeat this quote as if he's not being a fucking asshole
>>56458715
McDonald's, for example, would probably be forced to cut their least profitable franchises dramatically.
>>56462297
abortion is child murder
life begins at conception, not when the baby leaves the birth canal.
>>56461991
Yes, that's that "inflation" you guys keep going on about. Meanwhile, small businesses get tax breaks and don't have to raise prices, thereby allowing them to compete with corporations.
>>56462412
>it sure stings when your monopoly on the status quo is jeopardized doesn't it?
Sadly, it stings the formerly "oppressed" people the most. Women now are more miserable than ever
>>56464279
Fine. Useless Jobs. Do you get gratification from your christian tibet polaroidBBS postings now?
>>56462297
Jesus, so hostile.
>opposition to abortion is based on the fact that life is a fundamental right that should be afforded to all human beings
>wars in the middle east (which most Democrats voted for and many are still starting) are based on national security concerns.
Do you have any others? Or are you just going to emotionally respond by insulting me? Ironic...
>>56458381
If the rich really are as powerful as you fear than you have nothing to worry about
>>56463151
>liberals want the option to exist, conservatives want there to be no option.
Nowadays it's the other way around. The right supports individual choice, while the left pushes affirmative action and tries to convince girls they'd be happier in STEM fields
>>56462187
...if you're a communist.
>>56462266
You are dumb and you should kill yourself.
>>56465067
socialism always allows for communism of some kind to take control.
with socialism you just skip to the end game and allow the same "1%" to take control immediately.
>>56462434
Bernie is a democratic socialist. And yes, democratic socialism is a form of socialism. You're probably thinking of social democracy.
>>56464113
You seem to be confusing righteous anger and passion for "cheap sensationalism" while at the same time forgetting the media during the Bush administration whose goal was to portray the country as on the verge of complete collapse, as it made for a good campaign environment. The only cheap sensationalism this time are attempts to discredit Trump, Carson, or Cruz.
But no. It's those damned constitutionalists and smaller government advocates that are the unreasonable ones.
>>56462595
You're an idiot.
>>56458776
No the minimum wage should be staggered depending on the size of the corp. Small start ups should have very low taxes and a lower minimum wage. Isn't this obvious to other people?
>>56462732
Are you really comparing the economy of ancient Rome to any form of modern economy?
>>56465054
you're right, the liberal left wants to FORCE people to not be bigoted. you know, in the tradition of the u.s. constitution and all...
and also is the liberal left pushing a law that women have to enroll in STEM programs? they're being encouraged, but no one is being forced.
>>56463223
Yeah, and look how terrible the SU did economically, right?
>>56462187
Do you really believe that?
>>56465435
Even if this was a legitimate option (cool, let's have government have more power over our success), it still wouldn't solve the problem of a buying power decrease for everyone.
>>56458381
>minimum wage increases to $15/hr
>spending power of working class increases
STOP RIGHT THERE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQLBitV69Cc
Question 3, which is answered first, explains why this is not beneficial.
If we raise the minimum wage, you should agree that the productivity of the workers would not go up. Therefore, by increasing their funds, you are, in fact, allowing them to buy more goods and services, but the amount of goods and services that are available to go around to each individual decreases, and therefore lowers our overall standard of living.
>>56465435
Yes, arbitrary thresholds established at the whim of the chosen ones are way better than a single, consistent standard that everyone equally can bear. So says the sharia law monarchy.
>>56465397
the "liberal media" during the bush administration did everything it could to support the possibility of war in iraq. now, why would they do that? hmm....
re: righteous anger vs. sensationalism....tomato tomahto
>>56465710
he seriously wants the minimum wage to be tied to a business's self-reported income. lmao.
Liberals can't/won't address these issues:
1. Minimum wage goes up, goods get more expensive, you new wages buy less.
2. Minimum wage goes up, businesses invest in robotics over humans, people lose their jobs, rich robotics companies become even richer, businesses who can't afford robotics go out of business (because you can't make a $1 burger with a $15/hour high school dropout)
>>56460313
>give tax cuts
>country falls into even more debt
People don't understand that the less they pay their government, the more the banking jews control everything.
>>56465480
The left uses claims of bigotism to bully opposition into silence. It's been sadly effective.
>>56465435
this discourages company growth and job creation
>>56459316
>US flag
>defending socialism
I'm not going to tell you to leave the country, because I'm not an asshole and I believe in freedom, but I would hope you consider all aspects of Sweden, Norway, and the Netherlands and realize why it won't work here.
>>56461973
>making robots to do human tasks is a good thing.
Only if they lower the price of the product since they don't have to pay those employees anymore.
Otherwise It wont benefit you or me, just them and we see nothing from it.
>>56465616
Shhhhh
Hush
Don't use economics terms like "production" and "standard of living." You're going to trigger progressives and autistic "socialists" who don't understand
>>56460315
It's only been raised by like $1 the most your fucking moron. Raise it a whopping $7 and you'll see how it'll cause unemployment. Fast food joints are already adding computers to take orders. You really think they'll bend over and take a huge loss paying some retard $15 to press some buttons, or put frozen fries into hot oil?
How does raising minimum wage hurt small businesses AND cause inflation? You can't have it both ways, conservatards.
>>56465732
When did they ever do that? I recall them parroting the democratic talking point of it being a quagmire and a failure before it even got started.
Have 100 dollars to spend
X costs 10
Y costs 30
Z costs 60
Have 1000 dollars to spend
X costs 100
Y costs 300
Z costs 600
> MUHFUGGA IM RIIIIIICH NIGGUHHH FEEL DA BUUUUUURNIE FINALLY ANOTHA REASUN 2 LUV SANDERS!
>>56465896
this might blow your mind, but: bigotry is NOT a relative concept.
it's the funniest thing in the world to see the political right finally embrace the concept of relativism...and of course they use it in the most vicious, dishonest way.
>>56464922
No. Why do you think corporations create "useless jobs" for random people to fill? What is the advantage of that? If they really had useless jobs they'd get rid of them immediately.
>>56462956
He's just retarded and didn't get the point of the comic.
>>56463888
Underrated post.
>>56466095
....are you fucking serious?
see, this is what i'm talking about when i mention the conservative parallel universe.
jesus christ man, every major fucking news outlet was running stories with (made up) claims about iraqi WMD. judith butler? ever heard that name?
are you even informed about anything at all?
>>56466076
Where is the contradiction?
>>56459316
wasn't it reported very recently that Sweden is on the verge of an economic breakdown due to welfare bills & all this socialist shit?
The rich leave to go somewhere that sucks their dick better, the poor cant afford to pay for the poor.
>>56466076
>small business joe has to pay paco $15 an hour now
>he can't charge more to his costumers because he'll loose business to people who charge less
meanwhile
>corporate asshole with millions on reserve can afford to keep his prices low
>but instead raises the price of living because muh profits
>causes inflation
there, pretty easy to understand.
>>56466273
They did find WMD, even NPR confirmed it, actually.
>>56466299
If the value of the money goes down, small businesses certainly can afford to pay their workers minimum wage.
>>56466273
>>56466095
whoops...heh, i meant judith MILLER, the journalist
sorry, judith butler is a philosopher. getting my judiths mixed up
>>56458381
>minimum wage increases to $15/hr
>spending power of working class increases
>huge corporations can't afford it, raise prices
>middle class thrives as they can now compete with these corporations
>How exactly does socialism not work?
You left out the part where small & medium businesses are way more affected by the minimum wage increase than corporations and go out of business.
>>56466432
>he'll loose [sic] business to people who charge less
>[corporate asshole] raises the price of living because muh profits
lol then who's charging less retard?
>>56466273
So reporting on the only thing coming out of Washington at the time surrounding the biggest news event since 9/11 counts as full support of the administration?
>>56466485
are they the chemical weapons stockpiles and mobile weapons laboratories? because those were the reasons why we went to war.
There's no place for small businesses in Bernie's kek world, only mega corporations that can afford the wage hike. Forget about entrepreneurship, forget about starting a business that will ever require employees, forget about becoming independently wealthy from doing anything other than perhaps selling a viral app in the iPhone store; unchecked liberal democratic policies paid for via the teat of capitalism that permanently set in stone who the winners and losers of society are is going to turn advanced nations into cast-based societies.
>>56458381
>suddenly wages increase to $15 dollars an hour
>spending power of the working class increases, but costs of living and goods increase proportionally as well, thus lowering the over all net value of each dollar earned
>businesses invest more in automation, thus creating more unemployment
>the working class once again ends up in the shitter, and the government and corporations are still rich, because they used tax loopholes to get their money off shore, but still put enough back into the system to grease the gears to ensure the state's complicity in their ponzi scheme
Go feel the bern inside an oven, you stupid jew.
>>56466632
when their news "exclusives" are coming directly from the white house, Y.E.S. motherfucker
>raise minimum wage to $15/hr
>businesses maintain minimum amount of workers like they already do
>they fight to keep the amount market share they already have
>to do so, they have to cut CEO and other bigwig wages to maintain operations cost
>people have more money and spend more
>companies end up making even more money than before
>CEO wages are even higher now
>everybody wins until the system gets rigged again and we have to do this all over
This has been historically proven in 1940s and 1950s America.
>>56458381
If you fucks actually want to know the reason this is wrong in objective truth, please stay tuned
It's called the crowding-out effect.
>Bernie increases minimum wage
>intending the drive up demand, and in effect inflation, which drives down unemployment he niggers
>instead drives down supply, as employers are the suppliers in the job market
>this happens because it now costs more to create a certain commodity, jobs
>this decreases inflation and drives unemployment up
>people and world lose faith in dollar, GDP decreases
>people being to save more than they spend because the future is uncertain
>put more money into banks, driving interest rates down
>decreases domestic and foreign investment tenfold
>lower demand in domestic markets causes deflation, drop in RGDP, and rise in unemployment
>WE ALL GET FUCKED
For those who are wondering, this is what Berniefags think
>minimum wage rises
>employers will force themselves to maintain status quo and out of the goodness of their hearts, cut their own profits to support their employees
>people have more to spend
>demand rises, causing inflation, a rise in RGDP, and lowering unemployment
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>we somehow don't get fucked
>>56458778
>"Capital flight, in economics, occurs when assets or money rapidly flow out of a country, due to an event of economic consequence."
>"A 2006 article in The Washington Post gave several examples of private capital leaving France in response to the country's wealth tax. The article also stated, 'Eric Pinchet, author of a French tax guide, estimates the wealth tax earns the government about $2.6 billion a year but has cost the country more than $125 billion in capital flight since 1998.'"
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_flight#Examples
>Alberta, home to Canada's vast oil sands and the largest source of U.S. crude imports, elected a left-leaning NDP government in May that pledged to raise corporate taxes and review how much producers pay in royalties to the province.
>The prospect of a royalty review has unsettled many producers amid concerns uncertainty about extra costs may prompt a capital flight from Alberta's oil industry, which is already reeling from low global crude prices.
>"He cited an Alberta royalty review in 2007 and a tax hike in the United Kingdom in 2011 as examples of regulatory change that have had a negative effect on the industry."
>"Laut said increased taxation in the UK North Sea led to stifled capital investment, declining production, less revenue for government and job losses."
>http://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCAKBN0OX28T20150617
>socialkeks
KEK LMAO
Wages have already been increased recently in a few States and all the corporations did was pass on the new liabilities down their supply chain (i. e. To small and medium sized businesses).
Why are we taking Sanders economic views seeiously? His entire base is stupid college kids who have never collected a paycheck.
>>56466511
So that makes up the lost business before the dollar adjusts?
"Hey guys, bad news. We can't afford to stay in business, but if you can just sit tight for 6 years or so, inflation will eventually settle the prices to the point we can resume work."
>>56466602
after keeping prices damagingly low to kill off current competitors they will raise prices once they deem the barrier to entry into the industry to be great enough that no competitors will be able to survive
>>56465397
oh hey i found a muslim prayer rug...AT THE MEXICAN BORDER!!!!!!!!!!
>>56466602
are you completely fucking retarded?
companies who don't have to pay the $15/hour wage via outsourcing or some other shit.
why do you think we have a job shortage in the first place? it's because minimum wage does not exist in china.
Personally, I do not imagine an immediate, huge economic impact of doubling the Federal minimum wage. Unfortunately, the BLS will not gather 2015 data for their Characteristics of the Minimum Wage report, but we do have their 2015 data
(http://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/cps/characteristics-of-minimum-wage-workers-2014.pdf)
What this report states is that only 3.9 percent of all wage workers are paid at or below the minimum wage (of course, it would be impossible for the BLS to gather data on wages paid in dollars, rather than via a checking system, which is a shame). As a result, raising the minimum wage should not be as big of an issue as it is: only a small quantity of workers will receive the benefit of an increased wage.
Technical note: I could not find a chart that lists the # of people who work for $8hr; $9hr; &c up to 15/hr.
As for my opinion, I do not think the minimum wage should be raised at all. The average workweek of a nonfarm employee is 34.5 hrs, and manufacturing is at 40.7. (http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf pg. 3) Furthermore, the average weekly earnings for all salary and wage workers is $809, adjusted for seasonal inflation (http://www.bls.gov/news.release/wkyeng.nr0.htm). My worry is that if the minimum wage is raised, young kids and adults will feel less enticed to get an education and strive to climb the corporate ladder and earn a decent pay. That is what I did after graduating college 3 years ago. The last thing I want to see is stagnation and an utter lack of desire to spur on innovation because the populace is "ok" with their current wage levels. Minimum wage should be low so people aspire to earn more money.
>>56458381
An analysis of the simplified supply curve where jobs are considered to be the supply tells you why socialism does not work.
I still don't support american-tier ultra neo-liberalism though that's just dumb
>>56466701
Why as a matter of fact, they were.
I even heard a theory that it was the Bush's people who sold Iraq the chemical weapons, and when he used them on the Kurds and not Iran like he was supposed to, the Bushes started looking for an excuse to go in there and take them back. Kinda makes since why he would be so convinced they were there. But no, that would be crazy, tin-foil hat conspiracy.
>>56466786
I have never accused the media of being not lazy.
>>56467118
Before the dollar adjusts, spending power will increase because inflation won't be an issue.
>>56467230
Who said outsourcing should be legal?
>>56458381
It changed how much those workers have relative to those on welfare, and how much they have relative to those in other countries.
For example, due to the strength of our dollar and how low your minimum wage is compared to ours (and thus, how lower prices are in the states), when I went on holiday their I was rich as fuck. It was like going to a third world country and being a king.
>>56467443
Oh, so those weapons that weren't a big deal at all and didn't justify a war in any way.
>>56458381
>the pie automagically gets bigger because we say so
>in actuality, pieces of pie are just getting smaller
>>56458778
Where would they go anyways?
>>56467492
i don't think you quite understand the scope of what actually happened. the administration (NOT the military) passed off "intel" to journalists regarding WMDs in iraq and those journalists went on to publish those stories, claiming that they came from "unnamed officials." it was all a lie and they knew it. this wasn't "laziness" this was insider washington shit. all the "liberal media" plays it.
there is no liberal fucking media.
>>56467504
The spending power of the unemployed doesn't increase.
But I suppose the customers will then buy more of the product at the increased price because a few of the lower income ones will get to keep their job, which pays just "enough" to get by now?
>raise minimum wage
>suddenly a lot of jobs are more profitable to outsource to other countries
>suddenly a lot of jobs are profitable to be replaced by machines
>>56460315
One of the largest reasons for outsourcing in the early 2000's was due to high wages demanded by unions, which require higher wages than natural.
Businesses quickly found that Mexicans don't need $60,000 a year plus pensions to work in a warehouse job. So they all moved to Mexico and China.
The second wave of workforce reduction will come from automation in the service industry. The tech industry's main priority is to create a system to cut out people in the middle. The most obvious example recently is self-driving cars. Millions of people are employed by delivery and shuttle services. That might change in a decade. Especially when businesses start looking at the situation as a means to reduce cost.
For the most part, increasing all wages increases the cost of living. When companies in a global world see greener pastures across the border, they will adjust accordingly.
I worked in an engineering and construction company that moved most manufacturing plants to Mexico after suffering plenty of strikes. Then they opened an office in India to do technician work. Engineers would do their work, go home at night, and when they come in the next day,all of the drafting for their project would be complete. Now there are large engineering groups in Mexico and India. Initial issues with quality control have been addressed, and now quality is just as high, if not higher than quality at home.
>>56467989
This is how the robots win
>>56463680
god damn, you made me reply.
Okay lets look at this "OPPRESSION"
Women GET:
> post pregnancy leave
>CHOOSE who to mate with
>CHOOSE what job they want
>CHOOSE what degree they get
like fucking hell i dont wanna go on and on but women have not had as hard as you think.
the "pay" gap is a myth and debunked by literally hundreds of economists ( Women dont spend as many hours working over their life time and dont work en masse to high paying positions)
They CHOOSE worthless low paying degrees, ( sociology and Wymn/ gender studies)
>but however they are a majority in nursing and medical fields.
But you act like they are being beaten and raped by #yesallmen
SHOW ME THE OPPRESSION, WHERE ARE THE VAGINIAL INTERMINET CAMPS AND THE ANTI WOMEN UNIONS
unless you have fucking proof that women (in the united states and the western world)today are treated like shit dont pretend like they are. you end up looking like a fucking child.
they have THE EXACT SAME OPPORTUNITIES AS MEN SHOW ME WHERE THEY DONT
>>56467989
What outsourcing and automation would occur that wouldn't occur right now? If a company could cut costs like that they would.
>>56467443
aha, no they were not. please...source me, so i can laugh at you.
>>56464742
>no more shitty food because town is too poor to afford McDonalds franchise
>>56467504
It doesn't matter what people say, the fact is companies can just outsource the work for a faction of the cost.
Raising the minimum wage will only worsen the current condition and people will end up with less and less jobs because of it. You cannot force companies to keep work in a place where they'll loose money. (Unless you are trump)
The best solution would be to regulate prices on a federal level so companies can profit from operating and employing people in their own countries, and workers can get a fair compensation for their work.
But of course that's never going to happen because >muh free market.
>>56468121
They were talking about how they were oppressed in the past, autist.
>>56467443
>Bush's people who sold Iraq the chemical weapons, and when he used them on the Kurds and not Iran like he was supposed to
everyone. fucking. knows. this.
and it was the reagan administration, not bush sr. bush sr. was too busy...i dunno, having a war with iraq to actually supply them with weapons?
god you're stupid.
>>56468132
Are you an idiot?
>US employee costs $7.50/hr to pay
>robot would cost $8.50/hr when we average the initial cost + electricity + maintenance over its projected lifespan
>we'll stick with the employee, it's cheaper
>$15 minimum wage
>ok let's bring in that robot and save $6.50 and hour
>>56467839
Just establishment media?
Just Jew media?
Just media that echos the zeitgeist of the nation?
Just statist media?
>>56458381
Go out and start socialism in this country.
You're free to do so, nobody is stopping you. Choose only to do business with other socialists and remove yourself from the capitalistic system. Don't work for people that pay under 10 dollars an hour.
One condition. You don't get to force anyone to follow your system if they don't want to. You don't get to spend other people's forcibly levied taxes on your socialist bullshit, you don't get to arrest people for being capitalist.
Suddenly you understand why socialism doesn't work.
People don't want to follow the orders of control freaks.
>>56468206
no they weren't, they were talking about women in the workforce, oppression and the roles women have had and are having. please try harder
>>56468199
Governments don't imposes price controls because they've tried that before and it was pretty much like setting off several nuclear bombs.
>>56468308
>robot would cost $8.50/hr
Nice number you just pulled out of your ass. I'm sure that's why automated kiosks are already becoming a thing.
>>56468336
This might be the worst argument I've ever read on this board.
>>56467810
it happens everyday, they outsource their companies
>>56468319
just media media.
look, all the national media outlets suck up to whatever administration is in office in order to maintain their access to that administration--be it republican or democrat. there is otherwise no one consistent philosophy or impulse....other than sensationalism, and that's done for advertising bucks. that's it. there's no mystery here.
now, those are the eternal flaws of the media, but otherwise i trust the new york times over theblaze any fucking day of the week, because at least the nyt isn't straight-up ideological.
>>56468501
average liberal everbody.
does not try to argue, just flings mud.
>>56468444
>I can't handle an example
>all machines cost exactly the same amount
>>56468444
It's actually less.
>Companies like Boston-based Rethink Robotics are already offering agile factory robots for as little as $25,000, which is equivalent to paying a full-time human worker $4 an hour over the lifetime of the machine, according to a Stanford University study. That’s a price low enough to lure smaller manufacturers.
http://www.ibtimes.com/industrial-robots-could-be-16-less-costly-employ-people-2025-1811980
Ironic that raising the minimum wage would most hurt those it was created to help: retards, low-skill laborers and high school kids
>>56468132
Any jobs that can be outsourced/automated for less than $15
As opposed to atm where only jobs that can be outsourced/automated for under $7.50.
That's a lot of jobs.
>>56468740
and single mothers, and disabled people....
>>56458381
>How exactly does socialism not work?
Take a look at Europe.
>work in tech sector with masters degree
>earn €45.000 a year for the same job you earn $80.000+ in the US
>have to pay 45% income tax
>have to pay 21% VAT
>have to pay 20 different kind of fees for bureaucratic government agencies
>mandated to pay huge fees for healthcare in a country outlaws free purchase of medicine
>the same government that robs me of 2/3rds of my money won't allow me to own a gun
>the government that I pay all that money to spends it to import a bunch of muslims that want to turn my country into a sharia zone
Socialism is amazing if you are a minimum wage hamburger flipper or are on welfare, but all that is paid by stealing from the middle class and by introducing a whole lot of bureaucracy.
>>56468136
It was some dude that called into NPR. He had taken his testimony to John Kerry and Nancy Pelosi but they didn't do anything so he took his testimony to the airwaves.
Oh, did you mean the presence of chemical weapons in general? I usually don't put this kind of effort into things for people who show no curiosity or independent thought, but because I like you for some reason, I'll make an exception this one time. A quick web search and I find http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/03/world/middleeast/chemical-weapons-iraq-pentagon-secrets.html?_r=0 on the first page.
>>56468831
most disabled people already get government assistance and benefits, so how is that a justification?
>>56468831
>wanting to entice more people into becoming single mothers
c uck
Pic related are cheaper than $15/hr
>>56468813
Are you really unable to process simple facts?
Outsourcing and automation is already a huge issue, raising the minimum wage would make it even worse. But don't worry, we can totally afford to pay you $15 an hour when a robot (or a Chinese kid) can do the same for $4...
>>56468813
you were given an example scenario but dismissed it because it used fictional dollar figures
>>56468756 also answered your question
here's your (you) buddy
hope you enjoy it
>>56468813
>what is R&D
>what are licensing costs
You don't just make a machine appear out of thin air, you have to pay people to develop it with engineers and programmers working constantly to ensure it does its job with a negligible failure rate, or pay a company to use their model and have it customized to your needs, all while having your PR department try and figure out how to make the shift to machines. All of these costs add up to more than just the electricity the machine uses.
Making a gigantic fucking jump will really push more companies to pursue these long-term savings.
This time with 100% less examples because you can't handle math.
>>56468903
dude this is old news too. it's been known that vets are getting sick because of exposure to the leftover iran war munitions (which, protip: we sold them).
the reason why we went into iraq is because of their alleged uranium processing (via those lol-worthy "mobile weapons labs") and their continued development and stockpiling of chemical weapons.
none of THAT existed. it was an bush administration fabrication.
>>56469097
Clearly they're cheaper than $7.50/hr too.
>>56469102
The point is if they're cheaper than the current minimum wage then raising the minimum wage won't make a difference. Outsourcing shouldn't be legal as is anyway.
>>56465710
How is a flat rate equal? It effects the smaller businesses more because a flat minimum wage uses proportionally more of the income of the business.
Or is this bait I can't tell
>>56469427
Are you saying we should lower the minimum wage?
>>56469651
>reading comprehension
>>56469678
>can't dismiss my point
>ad hom
>>56469427
it will make a difference, THATS the whole point, if my bottomline will be elevated because i have to integrate machines and lay off the same people the new wage is supposed to help , all the new wage did ( in the example of fast food, and maybe certain big box retailers) was hurt the least fortunate.
what dont you understand about that?
>>56469717
You didn't make a point.
>>56469678
You're the one that lacks reading comprehension. If all those machines cost less to own and operate than it does to pay a person, clearly we need to lower minimum wage to compete with machines
>>56469740
you are contradicting your self
>>56465933
It encourages growth for small businesses
It provides more spending power for the working classes in bigger businesses helping the economy as a whole.
>>56469738
What machines lie exactly in the $7.50 - $15.00 price range?
>>56469747
No, clearly it's a non-issue and anyone using it to argue against raising the minimum wage is deluded.
>>56469747
>>56469717
you cant fix autism guys
>>56469804
For one, all the other McDonalds around the country that aren't already automated.
Probably kiosks in most retail areas, many factory jobs.
>>56469804
the ones already in use by McDonald in Australia( or else they wouldnt have used them) and do you think that a market of companys wont be competing to create the most cost efficient machine? do you have no grasp on business ?
>>56458715
You really haven't been in the work force for long if you don't realize how lazy and unproductive most people are
>>56469876
Is that not why we come here though? to pretend that we can.
>>56470021
What? So the cost of automated kiosks depends on the location of the McDonald's? Damn you're dumb.
>>56470057
Those kiosks are already in use in the U.S.
>>56469427
It works like China's rise in production.
A major change in economics allow companies to try using China to manufacture their products. After a few years, an entire industry is made to support this process. After a while, nobody else on earth can manufacture products like China, even if other countries wanted to bring back production at home.
It didn't make much sense early on to hire an Indian to answer calls from the US for American companies in English. But once they made an industry to make schools that specifically taught Indians to speak English as if they were from South Carolina, all the other companies hopped on board.
If a company hires 5,000 people to answer phone calls, and now must pay double to compensate for the increase in minimum wage, they will definitely go full speed into R&D for a human sounding robot. Once that technology is preferred over call centers, then all the other companies will switch to automated phone systems
>>56469876
If you remove the autist, you cure the autism
>>56470021
I'd stop replying, he's probably after (You)s, I doubt he understands urban population centers cost less to maintain and operate than ones in bumfuck nowhere that you have to send out a specialist to repair, after paying for training and transportation of materials and him.
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