Western RPGs kind of suck nowadays. How can they be fixed?
Expand your search OP. Why do they suck? What needs to be fixed?
>>336860076
Modern Western RPGs tend to have a very narrow narrative focus (usually stopping some big bad guy/thing) but get bogged down in too much other crap that has no ultimate effect over the main story. JRPGs avoid this by focusing almost entirely on the main narrative, with sidequests only existing to gain experience, grab better loot, etc. I feel like many WRPGs kind of exist in a weird middle ground that ultimately leads to an unfocused finished product. Western developers include things like joining factions/guilds, romance, and morality systems, but these elements ultimately do not contribute to the overall na.rrative (aside from maybe binary good and evil endings)
In short, an RPG should either be a tight narrative structure or a sandbox to play around in, but trying to do both kind of ruins the experience.
Just my opinion, though.
>>336861818
>leave RPGkino to me
>>336861818
I think you're pretty much right on the money. There are good WRPGs out there, like Age of Decadence, but sadly it seems they're few and far between. It's been a hell of a long time since we've had something on the level of Gothic 2 or Arcanum.
I think the first thing that needs to be done is increasing complexity rather than dumbing shit down like Bethesda seems to be hell-bent on doing. A greater focus on choice and consequence for the sake of rich storytelling and player agency rather than "will you be a nice guy or a dick" a la Mass Effect would contribute a great deal towards improving shit as well. RPGs, when you get right down to it, should be all about choice, and choice is meaningless if it doesn't have consequences. Wildly different outcomes based on the choices you make, with the choices available to you dependent upon what kind of character you have made and what choices you've made in the past.
I'd also like it if we had some WRPGs that actually took place in an interesting world rather than the same old Tolkien knockoffs we see time and time again. Give me some fucking mantis-men to play as instead of the same old orc elf dwarf etc. Make humans something other than the baseline "diplomatic" race. Or if you're going to base your world on a period of history, do something other than medieval Europe. Gimme some Renaissance, gimme some ancient Mesopotamia, gimme some post-American Revolution frontier shit. Show me something I haven't seen a million fucking times.
>>336860016
Don't cater to the lowest common denominator.
>>336862686
Agreed, fed up with generic medieval shit.
I feel like one of the reasons why morrowind is still so highly regarded is how unique it felt in each area, and it didn't rely on generic tolkin which bethesda then fell into with Oblivion.
>>336860016
JRPG's aren't doing much better family.
I think Western RPGs would benefit a lot from making a return to actual roleplaying. Also, having plenty of dialogue options like the old school Fallout games would help WRPGs greatly.
I think JRPGs would be much better if they rounded up all the JRPG writers/character designers and put them in gas chambers. Also, JRPGs can improve being less linear.
>>336863127
The Souls series is Japanese developed, so there's still hope.
>>336860016
There are so few RPGs from either side that really break the mold and stand out, especially recently. I think more RPGs need to focus on gameplay and put storytelling second. RPGs are about playing a role and experiencing a world firsthand, not necessarily being led through a grand narrative.
That's why Demon's Souls was so mindblowing, it built up the world well but the player was free to explore the story and surroundings at their own pace.
>>336863514
I never really considered the Souls series an RPG but I guess I can agree.
It has some really nice environments and the way it goes about telling it's story is refreshing to see, as opposed to watching 5 hours of cutscenes or mashing through walls of text.
>>336863127
>JRPG's aren't doing much better family.
good joke
Enjoy your dead genre
>>336863803
I've never really understood RPG purists who seem to only see D&D style RPGs RPGs, it makes it feel like there's two completely different meanings of the word. Souls is definitely an RPG series to me, you have stats and level up and use a variety of weapons and magic.
>>336864079
For me it feels like every single game is getting RPG elements so it can claim it has longer play time, regardless of what genre it's from. If we say a game is an RPG just because you gain expreience and level up stats then every game in the last 4-5 years is an RPG.
I just choose to draw a line somewhere so I don't confuse myeslf.
>>336864016
Enjoy your Backstreet Boys simulator then. It's not like anything else is coming out that isn't weeb bait.
Witcher 3 is fucking amazing, guy.
It singlehandedly saved WRPGs and set a new standard.
>>336860016
but dark souls came out last month and was fantastic
>>336865490
japs made that game anon
>>336865490
>Western
i liked skyrim.
>>336865937
>>336865897
Please stop falling for that meme guys.
Spoiler: everyone who calls Souls wrpgs knows exactly what they're doing
>>336865897
yeah, i'm sure
>>336863514
Souls series are action games before they are rpg, lets face it, there isn´t much of "roleplaying" going on there.
>>336866524
I'd say they're about a 50/50 split between action and RPG, but you're right that they aren't "true" RPGs.
>>336860016
abandon the open world meme
>>336865264
>casuals thinking witcher 3 isn't casual trash
enjoy your ass creed combat, map, and horse controls senpai
By making their women not look like trolls, mannequins, or literally men-with-tits is a good starting point.
>>336866934
Maybe, but what i mean´t was that in most Souls games (Bloodborne most of all), having good reflexes and manual dexterity is more important than managing your character equipment/attributes, a good low-level player will mostly win against any higher level but mediocre player.
And it may be a eastern produced game, but it is a mostly western themed one, albeit there are some japanese quirks in it, it is mostly a highly evolved Diablo-esque game.
>>336867560
dumb waifufag
>>336868005
>he likes visually appealing female characters
>"lollers he must be a waifufag!"
It's past your bedtime, anon
>>336860016
Stop playing AAA ones
I still like small budget JRPGS.
>>336868291
>He thinks the biggest issue about wrpg are the character models
dumb waifufag indeed
>>336860016
Depth. Like...any. I enjoyed Skyrim but I never felt like any skill choices mattered very much. At least the quests were fairly interesting.
FO4 was so bland in every way that nothing felt finished. Like 2 quests were worth paying attention to, the weapon and armor mods were kinda meh, enemies are still mostly dumb, and the world is so damn condensed it feels like you aren't exploring so much as going around the rides at a carnival. It lacked soul.
We've reached a point where even Invisible War seems complex. Where I crave a game as shallow (though amazing) as NOLF just because the writing was so good.
I think it's also bad that RPG makers have started making action games with RPG lite elements. I love leveling and such but if all it does is up my health fuck off. Bioware were gods and now they make dating sims with blood and call it an RPG. I miss NVN at this point. It felt dumbed down at release but shit, it's damn near an overly complex masterpiece by today's standards.
>>336868506
Nowhere in my post did I say character models were the biggest issue. I said for a start, they could do better, especially since that's the complaint I hear the most about wRPGs.
My biggest gripe with the genre is huge but empty worlds and samesy towns.
>>336868621
You mean NWN? And honestly it's more complex than 2E games (and i hate the feat system for that).
>>336868621
Is a morality system that makes you play through the game twice if you want to see both endings 'depth'?
>>336868436
u still like dick too
My biggest gripe with WRPGs to this day is the fact that I rarely ever feel like I'm mechanically progressing. The exact same style of play I used at the beginning of the game is precisely how I'll be playing at the end of the game. When I was playing Skyrim, using a SUPER AMAZING DAEDRIC GREATSWORD didn't feel even the slightest bit different than the Iron one, only I could now tout that my greatsword was Daedric. Endgame Fallout just turned "Shoot that guy with THIS gun" into "Shoot that guy with this BIGGER gun".
When I started out playing Bravely Default, the initial couple of classes had me use basic skills, gauging BP carefully so as to not leave myself too exposed or vulnerable, and rarely, if ever, going heavily into the negative. Endgame Bravely Default turned that into
>Wait a few turns to get maximum possible BP
>FREE LUNCH - AMPED STRIKE - AMPED STRIKE - AMPED STRIKE / AMPED STRIKE x4
>RAGE (Using one attack 5 times at the cost of 1/5th of your HP each time until you reach 1 HP) - DRAIN BLADE (All my physical attacks drain enemy HP with each hit) - RAGE - RAGE / REPEAT
All the while my healer is also completely negating all party damage, has every buff conceivable on my entire party, and removes debuffs as soon as they come, and my tanky character went from "She can survive a lot of attacks" to "The entire party is now shielded from all forms of damage, AND she can counterattack when any party member is about to take damage.
There's just this wild sense of game-breaking progress from beginning to end in Jap games. The Souls games initially had me keeping my shield up at all times to mitigate damage. Endgame, I rarely ever used my shield to deflect damage, because dodge was a greater defensive option overall, and parry is a superior blocking command.
I just wish more Western games gave me a sense of actual strategic/mechanical growth rather than just seeing numbers climb on the exact same actions as the beginning of the game.
>>336870879
Play Gothic 1 and 2
>>336861818
>Modern Western RPGs tend to have a very narrow narrative focus (usually stopping some big bad guy/thing) but get bogged down in too much other crap that has no ultimate effect over the main story.
Uhhh couldn't this be considered worldbuilding, if done right? Side quests aren't inherently a bad thing and serves to round out the game a bit.
To this day I wonder why no major developers have ever tried to create a roguelike with decent graphics. I'm sure there's an audience for it.
>>336871774
There's a pretty famous roguelike with non ASCII or tile graphics
>>336871774
Because they always try to make them Roguelites to capture a wider audience, and if they make a proper Roguelike with good visuals, the mechanics wind up clashing with the visuals very awkwardly.
>>336871586
I don't have a problem with sidequests and miscellaneous activities, but 99% of the time it's absolutely pointless. A good bad example is the option to get married from Fable, which had zero effect on the outcome of the game. The guilds from Oblivion were much the same, as joining them had no impact on the narrative.
>>336862686
I'd be fine if we even got a WRPG set in the present day 2bh
Might be cool
>>336872225
>IT'S SU REEEEEEEEL
There's nothing less interesting in video games than realism, and it has never, historically, made for a good video game that wasn't simply mechanically strong enough that the realism elements were drowned out. Even massive-scale 4X/Grand Strat titles would do well with fantastical reskins, but they are based directly in historical settings.
dragon's dogma is a WRPG done by the Japs
and it's fucking great
>>336872225
This guy was the project leader on Morrowind. What happened?
>>336872547
that feel when there will never be a 2
>>336873662
But you just got your 2
>>336871987
>if they make a proper Roguelike with good visuals, the mechanics wind up clashing with the visuals very awkwardly.
I'm not so sure. If the turn based aspect was done in a style similar to XCOM it could be cool.
How about generic, western fantasy bullshit gets thrown in the garbage for a few decades? The only western RPGs I like at all are Deus Ex and System Shock 2.
JRPGs might have some retarded plot progression and characterization, but at least they have a larger variety of settings and scenarios than western slop.
>>336873854
if u mean dark arisen...thats been out forever
>>336874505
Blame Americucks and Eurocucks for obsessing over Realism rather than uniqueness.
>>336874986
that looks like shit
>>336875223
I couldn't give half a shit. It's better than another generic fog-grey armored "warrior" with an axe and brown padded leather clothing.
>>336860016
>nowadays
Wizardry is the only good WRPG series.
>>336875907
Nah, there's also Mountain Blade and the Gothic games, but I agree. There's very, very few WRPG series that are good. Only a number of peppered games within other series.
>>336875907
Ultima was pretty good, too.
>>336875907
What's so good about Wizardry?
>>336860016
ALL rpgs suck these days, because they arent RPGS, they are action games with pointless leveling system thrown in
>>336860016
>Western RPGs kind of suck nowadays.
Wasteland 2, Divine Divinity, Pillars of Eternity, etc. I'd say we're living another golden age.
>>336860016
>Western RPGs kind of suck nowadays. How can they be fixed?
We must combine Western RPGs and Eastern RPGs, to make the ultimate SUPER RPG:
Dragon's Dogma 2
>>336880062
What is an RPG then?
>>336872547
its a poor mans skyrim and vastly overrated, boring empty world, boring monsters, shit quests, people only like it vocally because its relatively unknown
>>336880381
Western and Eastern RPGs are literally opposites. It's impossible to combine them.
>>336880301
PoE was pretty shitty. The mechanics were mediocre at best, the music was awful, the writing went from pretty good to fucking abhorrent in the end, and the characters are all insanely boring beyond the ones most relevant to the plot, and the game forces you to side against the one who was the most correct.
>>336880872
>Not playing Southern RPGs
>>336880664
old crpgs
think about modern "rpgs" like dark souls - it doesnt actually need leveling, games like die by the sword and nightmare creatures managed just fine without it. fallout 4 didnt need it either, since it is at this point just an open world fps, kinda like stalker, just much worse. I feel like developers stick leveling system into fucking everything these days and they arent actually making their games any better, they are making both action games and rpgs worse
>>336881136
The leveling in Dark Souls lays credence to unique builds and setups. It absolutely needs them, or it wouldn't be remotely the same experience.
I wouldn't be able to be a high Strength high Faith character who uses Sunlight Greatsword on a Greataxe and rip fuckers apart with that the same way if it was just a specific build setup game. It's just as relevant as leveling in a turn-based game, especially considering it forces players in PvP to keep on their toes with the potentially varied enemies they will encounter and how many different strengths and weaknesses they need to gauge on the fly.
Shit like Fallout doesn't need it, but that's because build variety amounts to "Shoot with this "gun better" against "Shoot with that gun better".
>>336881136
How do you make games better then?
>>336872547
It's a JRPG. The first action RPGs were made by the Japanese anyway.
>>336862485
Bring back linear RPG's instead of forcing open-world into every game. I'm so sick of it and it's making me hate a genre I once loved.
>>336882589
The west hates linear RPGs, go play JRPGs if you want linear.
>>336882267
Woah.
What'd that guy say to piss George off so much?
I heard he was always an asshole about criticism but not like this.
>>336860016
Take out and gas the bitter old farts who keep poisoning the well of good WRPG devs that still remains
Thanks to them, we going to get "2deep4u" (just liek them best sellers WL2 and AoD woo woo!) story in DivOS2 that we never wanted at all
>>336865264
>the witcher
>saving anything
>there are people on /v/ that unironically believe this
>>336860016
The genre needs a lot more variety is what it is. The industry has homogenized practically everything into one messy jack of all trades. Where no genre now truly excels within it's genre because it mixes too much things from other genres.
Ya dig ma nig?
>>336860016
>skyrim looks pretty good and runs great
>fallout 4 looks worse and runs like shit
Bethesda can't stop getting worse, can they?
>>336883191
show examples of different as you mention, nigger
Why is this board full of Witcher 3 haters like reddit? Witcher 3 is the best rpg ever made to date, it already saved WRGPs. I can't think of a single Jrpg or Wrps good as Witcher 3.
>>336883238
>fallout 4 not even maxed, looks like skyrim
>go into almost PS2 tier detail city
>FPS drops below 20
>AssCreed Unity
>maxed out graphics
>one of the best graphics and highly detailed city, 1000 AIs on screen
>never drops below 30fps
How in the fuck?
>>336882717
I can't make out what he's saying
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A45FQvlfU6Q
>>336860016
Need to remove voice acting for everything other than greetings. That way actual branching and in depth dialogue can be worked on.
>>336883368
AssCreed Unity runs worse than Fallout 4. I used to get 40 fps on my gtx 970 and i5 2500k (ultra-detail). Fallout 4 stays at 60 fps most of the time, drops to 50s in cities.
>>336883238
What was so great about Bethesda in the first place?
>>336883261
>show examples of different as you mention
All what they need to do is go back to the past is all. Look at what they did right there and apply it to now with necessary tweaks of course.
It's not hard. The problem is they keep dumbing down there games to make sure everyone can beat it and making sure to include a bit from many genres because that is what casuals like.
>>336882717
>>336883393
It was a staged thing, not real
>>336882267
Dumb camcorder ripper.
>>336883625
> the past
in the past, all they are making is a grindy RPGmaker games, some with Doom view edition and with only a few reskins of the fluff.
today there is more variety than ever
>>336861818
Shut the fuck up and stick to your gook games because WRPGs are clearly not for you.
I fucking hate JRPGs because their worlds feel like nothing exists outside the main narrative. They almost never bother to give any depth to the universes they create.
I like my RPGs having things to explore outside the main narrative, it makes the world feel more alive and coherent.
>>336883814
>literally WRPGS the post
There's a reason JRPGs aren't for you.
>>336883784
>today there is more variety than ever
No there isn't. Most games these days are basically light RPG's. Why shouldn't a game like the new Mirror's Edge for example be classed as a western rpg? It actually has elements from it now.
The only popular western RPG's now are also shit like Witcher, TES, Fallout and Mass Effect. Let us be for real here. These games are all also very similar to one another. Especially noticeable with how minimal the reading is. Instead going for as much voice acting as possible.
>>336860016
Is this a bait thread? I can't think of a single good Japanese RPG, most jrpgs have garbage quests like collect 30 items or something, no detail to the game world, cringe main story and horny character that 12 year olds fap to, short as fuck, etc.
Wrpgs are miles ahead and better. Take Witcher 3 for example.
>>336883889
I know, that's why I don't play them.
I wish weebfags would just do the same and shut the fuck up about how WRPGs should be more like nipshit.
>>336884072
>The only popular western RPG's now are also shit like Witcher, TES, Fallout and Mass Effect
Do you literally have autism? These games win 100s of GOTY awards and are praised world-wide. How are they shit?
I'm craving science fiction RPGs.
I don't mind fantasy, not even cliche settings, but I really want to see some good writing in them and that's just not happening all that often nowadays.
Here's hoping Torment: Tides of Numenera doesn't suck ass.
By the by, is Wasteland 2 DC now patched from all those memory leaks and shadow issues?
Make them even more shitty so that modders can make them great again. It's a proven strategy.
>>336884392
>These games win 100s of GOTY awards and are praised world-wide. How are they shit?
Bioshock: Infinite got 100s of GOTY awards, so did The Last of Us. Think about that.
>>336872352
Those are just part of the "role playing" experience. Not everything has to contribute to the main plot or translate into actuap mechanics in an rpg
>>336884538
Shut up Todd
More open world.
Quest design that isn't linear follow the dots
Better evolving stories where every playthrough has different outcomes in the world.
Really though, linear, follow the objective game design ruined western gaming more then anything.
Make magic feel magical.
Im talking more advance mechanics, casting a spell should feel like a puzzle, and when you do cast them it feels like you're doing amazing and/or terrifying things.
Really though, I want a game where I can play as a necromancer and slowly raise an army of death in a setting that actually responds to such things, unlike skyrim where you just have zombies following you around and no one gives a fuck
I would have agreed with this like 5 years ago, but I've played and enjoyed a lot of WRPGs for a few years now.
>>336886968
Re-introduce numbers and stats.
Modern western RPGs are very good at making you feel like you're in the setting, but they do a very poor job of providing interestingly distinct game mechanics. I like class-based or job-based RPGs because they allow for radically different playstyles.
>>336875907
>Wizardry is the only good WRPG series
Which is now ironically JRPGif we're using the JRPG = made in Japan, WRPG= made in the west
Party members
>>336860016
Actually, why have they been so bad lately? They just fail time and time again to capture my attention long enough for me to beat them. Meanwhile I've gotten into a few Jap RPGs like SMT/Persona and Dark Souls and I can play them for days on end.
I just can't put my finger on exactly what makes them so dull compared to Jap made RPGs.
They don't
Skyrim is the pinnacle of moder RPGs
>>336889976
Not even nips make Wizardry now.
>>336892189
your a weeb harry
>>336886968
What game is 1993 wtf?
>>336861818
fuck main quests. real RPGs have nothing but side quests allowing you to roleplay for real
>>336863514
Souls games are WRPGs though. WRPG is a genre, not a description of the nationality of the developers
100% voiced dialogue (especially voiced protagonists) ruined all the recent ones. Too much money dumped into VAs. Limits story and dialogue potential.
>>336895487
JRPGs are just RPGs developed in Japan though.
What were some good WRPGs to begin with?
>>336895937
yea there are literally no stylistic differences
>>336895487
is this a joke ?
Souls game fit in the hack'n'slah genre like Ninja gaiden or Bayonetta or DMC.
Oh guess what, the closets thing the west released to that genre is called, GoW or PoP. Both of them are casul shit.
WRPG ? please explain what that is. Give us an example of a rea WRPG released by the west.
>>336896141
>I have never played a souls game
Hack n' slash? Are you fucking kidding me?
>>336896134
>What is Dragon's Dogma
>What is Monster Hunter
>What is Shadow of the Colossus
Do you think there is only one style in JRPGs?
>>336896361
Dragon's Dogma is a WRPG. Shadow of Colossus isn't an RPG at all you fucking retard
>>336896134
I don't know what that image is trying to imply. Souls is not a JRPGs because it doesn't have anime visuals? That's basically saying that Final Fantasy of all things is not a JRPG.
>>336896432
that there are clear differences between the two sub-genres?
>>336896424
>DD is a WRPG
Just fuckoff
>>336896516
Which are?
>>336896361
>What is Shadow of the Colossus
An adventure game
It's pathetic to see that WRPGs are so bad nowadays people are claiming JRPGs to be WRPGs. baka tbqh senpai
>>336896424
Dragons Dogma is a japanese game
>>336896350
Usually when someone disagrees, they explain why and give reasons.
>>336872225
This man single handedly took out everything interesting about the Elder Scrolls and turned it into the most generic low fantasy schlock around. All for the sake of "realism."
Western designers are a fucking blight and cancer.
>>336896602
It's a WRPG made by Japanese developers, same as Souls. This is not a difficult concept
>Less focus on the story, more on the gameplay and character creation
>No dialogue wheels, no voiced protagonists, no empty open worlds, no auto leveling skills
>>336896670
JRPGs are japanese RPGs. It's not a difficult concept.
>>336871134
I'm about to download Gothic 1, what should I know before I play?
Still waiting for someone to tell me what an WRPG is exactly.
I'm kinda lost here.
>>336865264
The Witcher 3 set a new standard in bad AAA WRPGs and didn't save anything
He improved on the story, characters and the open world, gameplay is as shit as in Skyrim or Dragon Age.
>>336872535
why play some digital version of your daily life?
>>336862686
Bethesda is a bad example because of what you said. They are intentionally (but gradually) changing TES games into Action-Adventure instead of RPG.
>>336896747
>an american chef cannot make italian food
wrpg means a game that is indicative of the style traditionally used in early western role-playing games (wizardry, ultima, baulder's gate, diablo etc...). it does not mean that absolutely must be developed by a western game developer. stop being a fucking retard
>>336896005
Nowadays the best you can get are
>Witcher 3
>Dragon Age Inquisition
>Skyrim
etc. Which are all shit and the best genre has to offer.WRPGs are dead
Less appeal to the console Dudebro audience is how you fix them. Not too much though, you don't want ASCII graphics neckbeard shit either.
>>336872547
it's shit
i have to played on hard since lvl 1 to ever get engaged in it
the best content is literally a dlc dungeon
Let that sink in.
Skyrim with its world, good NPCs and good gameplay would be fucking amazing
WRPGs need more personality, and I don't mean Gone Home/Life is Strange type of personality. Characters need to be interesting, I'm tired of playing a buff man. At least in JRPGs I can play as an emo kid with blonde spiky hair
Also gameplay
>>336896916
> wrpgcuck so desperate for good games they have to steal japanese games to get them
>>336896916
Are you seriously comparing food with video games? Im not him but you are fucking retarded.
>>336867290
>>336883131
>>336896789
>>336896923
the lengths the little shits go to to prove how contrarian they are on here is amazing
>>336897012
yea, that's the purpose of an analogy. to compare two unlike things that are alike in some respect. did you seriously never graduate high school?
>>336896984
you can play as a cute girl/slut/stronk wiminz/happer merchantess/clueless pixie in most wrpg.
the "blond spiky hair kids" only exist in cyberpunk game for a good reason.
>>336896670
lol
ITT:WRPGcucks try to steal JRPGs and praise Normietcher 3
>>336896916
There's a specific way to make italian dishes. There's no standards for JRPGs, no gameplay element that is present in every game considered a JRPG.
>>336896931
To be honest, the problem isn't as much the dumbing down, it's the fact that developers refuse to call action games not RPGs. They blatantly market the shit out of games as RPGs because it sells.
>>336897192
dungeon crawler is an rpg subgenre :^)
>>336895487
>>336896134
>>336896424
>>336896516
>>336896670
>>336896916
>>336897058
You took a lot of for all this shitposting. Heres another (You). Take it it's all yours.
>>336896771
It's shit
>>336897162
>There's a specific way to make italian dishes
utter fucking nonsense. there are hundreds of dishes that are traditionally italian with dozens and dozens of different ingredients, some of which are present and some that are not. not to mention regional dishes or fusion cuisine. you're talking out of your ass.
not like it matters since i don't have to just use food
>a french director cannot direct an italian-western movie
>a british architect cannot design a building in islamic style
etc... in no instance does the descriptor (japanese) exclusively refer to the nationality of the person who made it
>>336897041
I'm really sorry that I dislike your beloved game, you dumb polack
I'm not really contrarian, because I like many mainstream things
Witcher 3 just sucks and its story rapes the bookseries and I can't forgive that
>>336897114
FFTA, Radiant Historia, SMT, Fire Emblem - many JRPGs have unique MCs.
>>336896789
>and the open world
Looked like the same shit filled with pointless activities so the developers can masturbate on their 100 hours worth of content to me
>>336897323
>>336897125
>no argument
>ur shitposting
>>336897343
>utter fucking nonsense
Can I put a banana between two slices of bread and call it a lasagna?
>>336897418
There is an argument against you yet you just shit all over them and compare spaghetti with a a video game that is developed on the course 2-3 years.
>>336897518
>u can't compare things cause i said so
Witcher 3 and Divinity OS are better than any jrpg lately, cept the souls series
>>336861818
For a post on /v/ this is actually pretty spot on. I think this is why I have trouble laying wrpgs.
>>336897518
It's a perfectly good analogy, get over it you autist.
>>336896916
>>336897343
Jesus fucking christ are actually this butthurt that WRPGs are dying that you are literally talking about italian cuisine on /v/
>>336897162
>There's a specific way to make italian dishes
Have you ever cooked anything in your life? Or been to a restaurant or something? I can't believe you wouldn't understand how bullshit this statement is
>>336897368
>many JRPGs have unique MCs
so why call it rpgs if the characters act on their own? :^)
>>336897632
>WRPGs are dying
Are weebs honestly this delusional?
>>336897343
>in no instance does the descriptor (japanese) exclusively refer to the nationality of the person who made it
Except for jrpg
>>336897685
Fine. Tell me some good WRPGs.
Is this what /v/ has become?
>>336897756
dying =/= quality
Even if you think Witcher 3 is the worst game ever made, it doesn't stop it being a commercial and critical success. Also the resurgence of CRPG's like Divinity prove WRPG's are not 'dying'
>>336880991
>$ Match
I'm disappointed that it wasn't a game, but a pachislot. A boxing JRPG would be great.
>>336897891
So you now accept that Souls games JRPGs? Also when did i ever say anything about dying=quality? Are you reading my posts out of your ass? And i don't care about commercial succes. Tell me some legitimately good WRPG games.Because you didn't tell me jackshit.
>>336897632
divinity original sin 2
torment tide of numenara
tranny by josh sawyer
system shock remake
underworld ascendant
mountain blaze: butterlord
elex
kingdom come: goobergate
technomancer
south park
the surge
bard tale 4
exanima
and all the aaa companies still get to make their aaa versions of "rpg"
how is it dying?
>>336898340
>by josh sawyer
Thankfully no
>>336874986
I find this funny
>dragons and ancient robots are okay
>cute monsters and guns are unrealistic
>>336898162
This was my first post in the thread
>>336897685
So I don't know what you are talking about in regards to Souls games being JRPG's and I don't care.
>And i don't care about commercial succes
When you use the word 'dying' to refer to an entire genre it kind of implies you are talking about commercial viability, you personally not liking something does not ever equate to something 'dying'.
>Tell me some legitimately good WRPG games
I don't see what the point is since you are going to just say they are shit and dismiss them , but alright, here are some recent ones I have enjoyed:
-Divinity: Original Sin
-Age of Decadence
-Underrail
-Witcher 3
-Pillars of Eternity
Witcher 3, best western rpg since fallout 2.
I've been making a perfect MMORPG for 14 years now. I have a huge piles of papers, drawings, tables and notebooks that just barely cover the overview of the setting and fundamental mechanics.
I started writing it in the actual code around 3 years ago.
So far I have done the resource circulation for the persistent world and started working on chemistry/alchemy part of crafting (which largely is the system the world will be built on).
Expect it out around 2050 at current pace.
>>336898629
>Witcher 3
>Pillars of Eternity
I just like rpgs
>tfw just replaying Morrowind every year
The only good RPGs these days are made by small unknown studios. And it barely counts but I'm looking forward to Enderal, maybe they were able to make something good out of the Skyrim engine
>>336898560
dragons are predators in most games. and that's why they are intimidiating
same as ancient robot, or "golem". For manual labor there's no need for them, they are weapons and that's why they should look like they can handle an army.
"cute monsters". replace monsters with "creatures" and you are good to go. humans have hard wired reaction to various shape and size regarding animals. You dont make a hostile creatures look friendly. Even a gretchlin in w40k looks cute and act "cute". But they are still dirty because they aint no humans and look hostile all the time.
>guns are unrealistic
so you never played dude sex, ss, shadowrun, arcanum, fallout, vampire masquerade, torchlight, dungeon siege, grim dawn, poe, wow...?
>>336899363
you can always count on kraut to make solid mechanic
just dont count on their storytelling
>>336860016
Some still do decent ones, but normies will gobble up the mainstream ones instead as always
>>336899337
SHUT UP AND PICK A SIDE AND SHITPOST REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Who can play western shitty rpgs after souls games? I mean, just look how the last dragon age plays - it's utter shit. It's shit. And souls games almost has no story, but interesting world and good gameplay, while western devs focuses on cinematics, voice acting (tons of dialogues completely voiced, even the minor ones) and the overal book feel.
>>336899530
>but normies will gobble up the mainstream ones instead as always
like pic related
>>336899619
That's the point. This shit was marketed like there is no tomorrow, they spend more money on marketing alone than Fromsoftware to make their yet another shitty action slasher
>>336899492
Is kraut another name for sureai or something?
>>336872225
I wholeheartedly agree with this statement though.
It adds greatly to >muh immersion.
>>336899619
Yes. Just like pic related
>>336899745
What's this? Were they pandering to the minecraft kids?
By outsourcing development to Japan.
Western devs can't make good gameplay in an RPG to save their fucking lives. Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma have better gameplay than any WRPG ever fucking made.
>>336899834
You go inside a 100 year old Synth memory data bank and hack it to reveal his secret plan to nuke the shit out of Far Harbour
>>336899889
>he let the /v/ memes get to his head
jesus dude...
>>336899929
Bethesda stories are always so meaningful and amazing
>>336899585
>the overal book feel
man, the book sure describe how i run away from a giant man-buffalo thing and nuke him to oblivion
or how i circle strafe that big dude, effectively negate all damage.
or how my death means nothing despite my friends went madder everytime they die
or how i fight with the same two skills over and over
or how i drop down a height that should have killed me previously but feel nothing because the book author want to.
or how the other readers tell me i'm a pussy because i read the book in its entirety.
>>336899972
I've been playing RPGs since you were sperm and JRPGs have always had much better gameplay. The only thing WRPGs ever had going for them was the sandbox feel but trading that off for gameplay in a fucking video game is never a good trade.
>>336899727
krauts mean german
like slavs for east europeans.
>>336899889
Dragon's Dogma is more like mix of souls/monhun combat with western shitty combat, and it's not that great.
Daily reminder that Demon's Souls started as Oblivion competitor, and it has first person mod untill MIyazaki wanted to work on this game. He wasn't as valuable as he is now, obviously, but FS let him work on the game, because it was beyond salvation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j9ZPAyfPYQ
>>336900029
But souls games aren't book, pls read carefully.
>>336869834
Morality on a scale will always be shit. Hell, Ultima 4 did morality excellently and had none of that shit.
>>336900159
Sir, you are being memed.
>>336900275
oh shit waddup
>>336883581
Open world RPG. Thing is nowadays practically everything has one or both of those elements in some fashion.
>>336860016
Western RPGs have a wide variety of styles to them. Witcher series is a different beast from Pillars of Eternity, or a sandbox game like Elder Scrolls or Mount and Blade: Warband. This is the same genre that has Deus Ex, Shadowrun, Underrail,Fallout, and so many more.
The reason you're expecting WRPGs to suck is because you're thinking of them as a genre. But there's more variety in them, then there is in JRPGs, or even within most other genres.
Everyone knows that JRPGs always play out the same way. Railroaded story from point A to B. Waifu pandering and fanservice. If you're lucky, you get a husbando as well. You get a story, and some characters, and that's it. Most of the time the settings aren't even fully realized. I've given up on JRPGs until someone fixes them.
Souls is an exception, but it's not truly a JRPG. It's from Japan, and it's an RPG, but it's not a JRPG. It's not a WRPG either. It takes a lot of western storytelling queues, with characters that have objectives and an objective based plot. But it also uses Japanese narratives, focusing on the areas and the atmosphere and using those to tell parts of the story of the game. This is why Souls feels differrent from the traditional RPG.
WRPGs are fixed. There's nothing wrong with them. Your problem, as outlined in this post >>336861818 is that you forgot that WRPG is an umbrella term for a staggering variety of games. Games with completely different mechanics, themes, settings, stories. Your problem with WRPGs is that WRPG is an umbrella term. It doesn't denote a very specific type of RPG. You need to realize that to move forward with them.
>>336872225
He's kind of right, in that if you're trying to build a world, it's good to think about things like food sources and trade. However, you can do that stuff without it being purely based on real world stuff.
>>336900847
Yes, because eating hundreds of apples during the fight with the dragon to heal yourself is totally realistic. Holy shit this man.
>>336900923
Gotta make the game fun/easy enough to sell.
Total realism ins't fun for a lot of people
>>336900751
>Everyone knows that JRPGs always play out the same way.
Said by a guy that never plays JRPG.
>>336901053
Which is why it's hypocritical to bash other series for being unrealistic when his own games are just as unrealistic.
>>336901224
He's not really bashing JRPGs, he's just saying why he prefers a more grounded story and setting.
>>336901224
>>336901484
I really liked morrowind, because it felt like an alien world, with all these strange creatures and placesand because I was like 13 years old back in the days. But other TES games became so bland and boring, they wanted "realism", and they get generic fantasy shit.
>>336901062
>railroad story from point A to B
>waifu pandering and fanservice
>sometimes a husbando
>story, characters, setting that usually isn't fully realized
JRPGs are all extremely similar, but slightly different from each other. They're the burger chains of Video Games. When you buy a JRPG, you know what you're going to get.
When you buy a WRPG, you could get Mount and Blade: Warband. A game focusing almost exclusively on sandbox gameplay and story. It's a game where the game reacts to what you do, while you keep reacting to it. Essentially, you create the story with the game. That's completely different from Witcher 2, where the game has a very linear storyline, with only a few different endings. That's completely different from Fallout New Vegas, which is a sandbox game like M&B, but has an identifiable main storyline with different choices and branching outcomes, like Witcher 2. It also has a fully realized setting, like the other two, but it's also completely different from them.
And Deus Ex: Human Revolution is completely different from all three of those, despite it also being a first person shooter, like New Vegas.
If I play a JRPG, I know what I'm going to get. Waifus; and really tight stories where I often have no choice over the outcome. And if I do, it's only at a few key moments which results in limited amounts of endings.
The problem OP has with WRPGs is that he fails to recognize the staggering variety available in them. So he uploads a pic of the poster child and says "hur dur they're shit".
Meanwhile, Elder Scrolls is actually shit. But it's also useful. Hear me out for a moment. Elder Scrolls has everything that WRPGs usually have. Open story, major plot, big cast of characters, levelling and character building, fully realized setting, and an open world with lots to do in it. It even has non-combat stuff to do, like building up professions and making spells and decorating your own home.
>>336901859
So the game is indeed shit. But if you can identify what you like about the game, you can find other WRPGs to play. And you can also mod the shit out of these games if you like that game, but want it to be better, in your opinion. That's useful information. It's your jumping off point. It's not the end goal of someone who plays WRPGs.
>>336901484
>he's just saying why he prefers a more grounded story and setting.
That's the point. Trying to make it more grounded means that it's harder to suspend your disbelief about all the unrealistic aspects in the games.
In FF VII you do't object to Cloud swinging around a huge sword, because it's a stylized world and setting. But when you eat a 100 apples to heal your wounds in a dragon fight in Skyrim it immediately feels off, because the game tries to set a realistic tone.
>>336901859
Again, said by a guy that never plays jrpgs. You're doing the exact same thing as OP. You" fail to recognize the staggering variety available in them" as you put it yourself.
When I buy jrpg I could get everything from Valkyrie Profile, Demon's Souls, Disgaea, Kingdom Hearts Sengoku Rance or Valkyria Chronicles.
Games with wide variance in both style and mechanics.Some are nearly gameplay-mechanics for the sake of mechanics, like Etrian Odyssey or Disgaea and some are more there as an extension the games narrative or themes, like Ni Nu Kuni.
Some are pander-heavy like Neptunia, but a lot are more grounded, like Tactics Ogre or Valkyrie Profile.
Some are linear others are not. Some have a greater focus on their narrative others don't.
Dumbing down an entire genre to a few buzz words is retarded and you do the same thing with wrpg and go "hurr generic fantasy setting" and "stupid overused D&D party system", but it's not reflective of the fact of the matter.
Just try and play some good jrpgs instead of only looking at fanservice games.
>>336903129
>you do the same thing with wrpg
*you could do
>>336899098
Wither 3 is good though.
PoE is generic but it isnt a bad game.
>mfw retards still thing that "WRPG" and "JRPG" are genres.
>this thread
>>336860016
Oh man if only skyrim's gameplay wasn't so fucking shit
>>336874505
>The only western RPGs I like at all are Deus Ex and System Shock 2.
WRPG's are shit because they relly on game mechanics predate or are generaly of lesser complexity than deus ex and theif.
Deus ex and deus ex invisible war are a clear demonstration of what went wrong with the entire game industry.
Graphics and console exclusives.
1. casuals have money
2. graphics attract casuals
3. innovative and diverse game mechanics and complexity scare the casuals or make them more critical (turn into core gamers) who dont buy shit games.
4.console makers and console dedicated publishers want to maintain virtuous cycle of hardware upgrades software downgrades, because of points 1, 2 and 3.
The reason why JRPG is so good is because of the shit tastes weaboos have (seriously though, japs make great naratives but when they don't it utter shit, at least the wrpg have pseudo-agency to distract you.
>>336905771
That looks fucking intense.
>>336906202
>>336905771
How i feel when i play a JRPG.jpg>>336905771
>>336896789
I didn't play Dragon Age, but you have to be retarded to think Witcher's combat is as bad as Skyrim's.
More sandboxing and character customization shops.
RPG's are all about playing roles.
The problem I have with WRPGs is that like much of the video game industry, they're becoming less complex with time.
Compare Morrowind to Skyrim. Skyrim has no stats, lots of skills removed which results in less weapon and armor types, birthsigns casualized so you can change them whenever you want, no crafting your own spells, enchanting casualized, less factions to join, less or no downsides to your actions such as unkillable NPCs.
You could argue that Skyrim is a bigger game than Morrowind, with a bigger world full of more content. But even then, Skyrims content lacks diversity and all feels samey.
You can apply this logic to pretty much all modern WRPGs, and it's one of the reason they're just not very good anymore.
>>336906743
>RPG's are all about playing roles
>>336860016
Video games in general suck nowadays. Mods is a way to fix them.
>inb4 but muh storyline
Read a book you fucking retard
>>336907287
Mods never fixed a shitty game
>>336860016
>>336907287
>Western RPGs kind of suck nowadays. How can they be fixed?
AYY LMAO LOOK AT THE TOP OF HIS HEAD
>>336907287
Mods as in neverwinter custom campaigns/modules, or weapon skins/ponies at best?
>>336907552
You probably didn't even mod a game. It takes a shitton of time, but modded Skyrim can be pretty damn awesome.
>>336907552
>Mods never fixed a shitty game
You can't be more mistaken.
>>336907858
>>336907860
>muh shitty sex mods
>>336907971
1 phrase four words.
BRAVO SON. I AM PROUD!!!
>>336899929
wait, did Bethesda actually manage to make a non-retarded weapon for FO4?
>>336907287
>>336907860
>>336907858
>Polishing a turd
>>336909068
>stop liking what i dont like
>>336909667
>I'm eating shit and nobody can stop me
>>336909807
What kind of games do you play?
>>336909883
Good ones
>>336909942
Give an example, so we can laugh at you.
>>336909068
>>336909807
>>336909942
(Oh this fucking retard again)
>>336909667
>>336909883
No it's literally more like putting the turd in plastic bag that is put in a hermetically sealed box that is locked up inside a locker inside the prestigious trump tower.
I'm not even joking. With graphical, audio, novel game mechanics, narative, items, mobs etc.
People can end up with a game thats over twenty times it's initial size in megabites
>>336910112
Why bother, we all know how it'll end up, I'll list some objectively good games, you'll call them shit, I'll call you a retard and you'll go "u-u mad?" while posting the picture of a smug anime girl.
>>336910326
So what are these "objectively good games" you are talking about? Or are you so insecure about your obvious shit taste that you even shame yourself for liking what you like?
>>336910326
I'll list some objectively good games.
this is a website were people legitimately dislike the philosophy that went into deus x's design.
So post your shit tastes faggot.
>>336910469
I won't take your bait friend
