>Power Within is literally in the last area of the entire game
It seems so weird to me how painfully linear this game is. It's fine for the first playthrough in fact it probably makes it go more smoothly, but after that it just hinders subsequent playthroughs and I find myself getting bored early on/around the mid game because everything I want is in the late game.
With the cast of pic related, you can at least try to kill the Dancer early. Doing so can already be rough, but you would also need to clear Lothric Castle and the Dragonslayer Armour before finally getting to the Grand Archives to pick it up. If you want something in Irithyll, Dungeon, or the Capital there is no real way you can speed up the process.
At least in Bloodborne a lot of weapons can be acquired by killing NPCs like Eileen when you meet them, or by just running through the first part of the DLC which you can do exceptionally early and it doesn't require you to be strong at all. It's still probably too linear, but I would argue it felt a lot less hands off than DaS3 does.
It's weird too because the other games had this openness to them from the very beginning. DeS basically told you to do whatever you wanted and so did DaS2. DaS1 has a lot of sequence breaking potential even without using the master key.
What they don't seem to understand is how much this hurts playthroughs after your first one. The ability to quickly access specific things has always been a draw for doing alternative builds and playthroughs. You learn the ins and outs your first time and then can go for a more focused experience later.
To make matters worse they took a huge step backwards from DaS2 in ng+ potential. I know this is /v/ so I should blindly hate everything about DaS2, but having alternative drops and boss souls and having things like red powered up enemies in areas made NG+ actually feel somewhat fresh. By the time I got Gundyr's Halberd in DaS3 I already felt like I saw everything the game had to offer.
>>336280196
I felt bored as fuck in NG+ tbqh senpai. But my first playthrough was one of the best experiences. Really fucked up. And it felt so tiring to go through NG+, I literally found myself running past everything after Vordt.
>>336281283
That's because there is no incentive to do anything in the game in NG+. You might as well just run through everything and then farm a few areas if you really want Souls for some reason. It's the exact same game as before.
I feel really bored on my other files because there just isn't much else to experience. It's my first spell build and I can't enjoy it because all the cool spells are tucked away in the corners of the world. I just can't fucking believe Power Within of all things is that far away.
>True NG+ coming in DLC
>Enjoy your Season Pass!
>>336281618
>mfw one shot boss challenge will never be possible again
>>336280196
They put a lot of the stuff that you'd want to get as early as possible in the end game.
Power Within, Red Tearstone Ring, the stuff that makes the speedruns and hypermode strats work are basically non-existant.
It makes replaying really tedious and boring.
I think it's less enjoyable to replay than even Dark Souls 2, which is pathetic.
>>336280196
>Power Within is literally in the last area of the entire game
>that means it's linear
>>336282027
>speedruns
Glad they fucked that off.
>>336280196
It's linear because you can use a shortcut and quickly get an end game item three bosses in?
>>336282027
>Red Tearstone Ring
Literally just have to beat one boss for it.
Not counting the tutorial
For fucks sake why is /v/ so terrible?
>>336280196
>5 second cast animation
>lasts 15 seconds
>gives 20% more damage
It's really sad that DaS2 has the best magic in the series even after all the nerfs
>>336282030
It's more that theres no sequence breaking.
In DS1 you can fuck around and get RTSR, and Power Within, and Zweihanders or Dragon Greatswords and shit before killing a single boss.
There just isn't that in Dark SOuls 3. The only choices you have are:
>Kill an NPC and a late game boss with very little in terms of damage boosts or level ups, to get access to some really powerful shit that you won't even be able to use (like Chunks)
That's ok because a lot of bosses can be bled, so if you have a bleed weapon you can beat dancer fairly easily.
or
>Go to Crystal Sage and Cathedral of the Deep or go through Farron and kill Abyss watches (but you have to do both)
or
>Go to Yhorm, or Pontiff and Aldritch (you have to do both anyways)
Those are your choices.
>>336280196
>>336282030
>Doing so can already be rough, but you would also need to clear Lothric Castle and the Dragonslayer Armour before finally getting to the Grand Archives to pick it up.
The archives are closed until you kill the other lords of cinder tho
>>336282502
It's really sad how bad you are.
>>336282030
I was using Power Within as an example of why the game being linear sucks.
>>336282648
Wait really? Holy shit I might just stop playing the game entirely then. I beat it twice and am bored out of my mind trying to get this pyromancy build going.
>>336280196
thank all the faggots complaining that it was hard to know where you had to go on DaS, I still remember an interview with Miyazaki which he said he would make the game more accessible to address this "problem"
>>336282648
>The archives are closed until you kill the other lords of cinder tho
No it isn't.
>>336282579
I agree. I fucking love how much stuff you can do in Dark Souls without beating any other boss than Asylum Demon.
If there had been some way to get to Irythill form either High Wall or Undead Settlement this would have been pretty doable in 3 too. On the same not I do miss an intermission area like Valley of Drakes. Could fix two things right there.
>>336282579
>RTSR
>beat one boss
>Zweihande
>beat no boss
>Dragon Greatsword
>only accessible by a huge long walk and you need 50 fucking strength for it so it basically isn't worth it anyway
you are beyond retarded
>>336282936
Yes they are, Gotthard's corpse isn't there until the third lord of cinder is dead
>>336282936
The corpse with the key to get in literally doesn't spawn until Abyss Watchers, Yhorm and Aldritch are dead.
>>336282875
Thats the funny thing, because one of the only really good things Dark Souls had going for it was the ability to sequence break.
Dark SOuls 2 introduced Soul Memory, and Dark Souls3 is linear as fuck.
>>336282648
>>336282936
>You have to defeat 3 Lords of Cinder and initiate the cutscene.
http://darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Grand+Archives+Key
>>336282579
also
>have to kill 3 lords before fighting lothric princes
bugs the shit out of me
i'm 100% agreed that there's not enough sequence break. ds1 never-ever again.
>>336283076
>fextralife
>>336280196
first op with a legitimate complaint! i knew something felt really off about this one and i think this is it. maybe if they make a revised thing like scholar of the first sin or something it would fix it but idk. at least it's not a super hard thing to fix
>>336282579
So much worse than
>Go up and ring bell
>Go down and ring bell
I never found power within. Where is it?
Why wasn't it in Dark Souls 2?
>>336282936
Yes they are, beat bort and tree, then dancer, consumed king, champ, dragonslayer armor. Them doors is locked as fuck
>>336282962
>50 str
>one handing great swords
I'm the retarded one?
>>336283156
here we go again with these shitters
>>336280196
>blah blah blah I want to be able to get all the good weapons early so I can cheese the entire game
>>336283225
so 34 strength
that is truly something you should get before you beat a single boss
Yes you are retarded.
>>336283161
>level design
>easy to fix
lol what
>>336283156
i bet you also think wikipedia isn't a reliable source of information
>you have to beat the lords first
wow reminds me of Dark Souls 1
>>336283156
Feel free to try it yourself in-game then.
Have fun.
>>336280196
Open world SoulsGame with base building, team member training and romance options when?
>Linearity is bad
The worst fucking meme
>>336283185
In DaS1 you can also tackle the lord souls in any order you wish after Oreos and Smores, but the real crime is how linear it is compared to DaS2, where you had a fuck ton of options for where to go FIRST when you knew the layout of the world, and what's more odd is that the first boss players are likely to fight is optional,
>>336283342
it's not the level design that is terrible though it's the placement of items and key items that is the problem
>>336283539
When the world loses all taste
>>336283230
>>336283420
>>336283476
>defending that shitty site
we reddit now boys
>>336280196
Why the fuck does linearity even matter in these games? Play an actual open world game instead if this is the most important factor in world design to you.
>>336283185
Yeah, ringing 2 bells sucks, but you know, you actually -only- have to ring those 2 bells.
The mandatory bosses in Dark Souls is really fucking low, it's gargs, quelaag, iron golem, OnS, then like Sif, 4 kings, pinwheel, nito, seathe, and bed of chaos.
Everything else is skippable, although some do require some resources, glitching or clever use of terrain
You have to do everything as it comes in Dark Souls 3. It's not inherently a bad thing, but when Demon's Souls and Dark Souls touted these options of conquering things in whatever order you chose, it feels like a massive step backward.
If you could go kill Princes after Dancer and Dragonslayer Armor it would be great, but they intentionally restrict you from doing so for no fucking reason.
>>336280196
god you autistic faggots will complain about literally anything
>das2 is a good game now
LMAO
>>336283464
well you know, except that 75% of Dark Souls 1 are interconnected areas you can go through in any order to pick the items you need.
>>336282502
Dark Soups 2's shitty version didn't boost your damage at all and took 3 attunement slots while dealing almost no damage to enemies.
>>336283270
But the best weapon is literally in the starter equipment of one of the classes.
As is the best shield (highest stability for weight + 100% physical block + parry)
>>336283612
But isn't world design one of the biggest meme reasons to hate DaS2?
>>336283270
You can get Anri's after Vordt.
You can get the Astora's Straight Sword before Vordt.
There are a lot of weapons available, but none of them are any fun. Dark Souls you could do zany shit like get a Gravelord Sword super early, or run down and get a fire weapon really fast. You just can't do that in DS3.
>>336283542
I don't think linearity is a bad thing, but it really dampens replayability for a game. Replayability is something the Souls series is known for, and 3 burns you out real quick with the lack of variety.
This is why DeS will always be the best. You could go to any world you wanted at any time.
>>336283190
It's in the Grand archives, I think it's on the first level in a really dark room, you have to pull a somewhat hard to see lever there, which opens up a wall to a secret area, I think it really is the very last pyromancy you can get. I assumed you could rush there if you beat Dancer and Dragon Armor, but according to this thread you can't, which I think is a bit stupid, if you beat those two bosses/areas on a low level character you kind of earned that shit.
How is that any different than the lordvessel areas in dark souls 1?
Almost every boss in dark souls 3 can be at last be the third boss you fight.
That is not even close to approachable in dark souls 1.
If we compare them just by math aggragating all the numbers every boss could be earliest fought then divide it to an average das3 would objectively come out as better.
>>336283556
DaS2 also requires you to kill a three bosses to reach a middle point of the game unless you want to grind like an idiot.
>>336283820
You guys said the same thing about BB and I am sick of how good gameplay is not the only reasonable argument for replayability.
Present das2 all you want I rather replay every other souls game 10 times before I touch that turd again.
The game locks you out of grand archives until you kill 3 lords because they lazily plastered flags for npc quests
>>336283894
>applying numbers to fun
>>336283894
What?
>>336283631
>The mandatory bosses in Dark Souls is really fucking low, it's gargs, quelaag, iron golem, OnS, then like Sif, 4 kings, pinwheel, nito, seathe, and bed of chaos
Also Gwyn. And do you not have to beat centipede demon and firesage demon to get to bed of chaos? if not that is news to me.
>>336283817
>Dark Souls you could do zany shit
Exactly, why do you think they changed it in 3?
It is you can't go and get these items early on.
The world in Dark souls 3 might be more linear than DS1 but the level design is far better.
>>336283817
>run down and get a fire weapon really fast. You just can't do that in DS3.
I swear you are literally retarded. you can pick a firestone as your starting gift and then instantly turn your starting weapon into a fire weapon.
TL;DR
Nice blog post.
>>336282579
What about
>try to kill dancer at the beginning of the game to craft her swords
>realize they're shittier in every single way than the starting merc weapons
you can't get to the archives before defeating the 3 lords of cinder
the guy with the key doesn't spawn
Pcucks think this casual series is hardcore still?
play nioh, the souls series stopped being hard after your first playthrough of demon's
>>336283612
>World design
>Open world
kill yourself. the only reason you should ever paly an open world game is if world or level design doesn't matter to you in the slightest.
The way Dark Souls did it with having levels that you go through in a specific way, but still have branching parts towards other areas in the world was the shit. It also made the fact that there was no bonfire warping in the first half of the game surprisingly painless.
>>336284097
They didn't even really change it. You can get several of the best straight swords super early.
>>336284057
Not to fun but to linearity.
I can do that.
>>336284226
Is noih gonna be the new meme game?
>>336284094
If you give best girl 30 humanity it opens a shortcut, which is also how you save Solaire from his sun
>>336283957
Yeah but if you want to you can tackle those in almost any order.
If you ended up getting enough health and the cat ring you can go kill Rotten first technically. Obviously you can work towards Sinner (most likely intended route) and find a branch and go kill Freya. Then OIK is kinda just another alternate route if you went to Dragon Rider firts.
I didn't like the lock out of Freya and Rotten really,
>>336284094
Not with the chaos covenant shortcut
>>336283864
Dark Souls 1 did this but with areas actually within the same world and without teleportation (also no mandatory loading screens), which is why it's superior imo.
In DeS it's basically "choose one of these 5 linear paths"
Then the last par tof the game shits itself but everything up until Anor Londo is far superior in terms of navigation and design to any other Souls.
>>336283778
>"waaa we can't say that linearity is unimportant or else we would have to admit that DaS2 was decent at least"
fucking hate this shithole
>>336284331
Leave then.
And don't forget your bad taste and das2.
Nobody will miss you.
>>336280196
NG+ and new games are fucking worthless.
The build variety is nonexistent in this game.
>>336284202
that'll probably be changed when the first dlc hits if enough people bitch and moan about it
>>336284303
It also had stupid shit like entering one side of a tower and then coming out at night at the other.
I swear everyone is wearing rose colored glasses when it comes to these stupid games.
>>336284291
You can kill Dragonslayer Armor, Abyss Watchers, and Deacons Of The Deep in any order you want as well.
I don't understand people who complain that Dancer is a hard boss. Killed her from the second try (mainly because I got instateleported from a previous boss fight without rest).
Lorian & Lothric though. These fags can go fuck themselves along with that horde of hollow knights that guards the bridge.
>>336283991
>Glitch allows you to jump into Iosefka's clinic and open up the gate, allowing access to the woods almost immediately at the start of the game.
>FROM patches it out for no real reason
>>336284094
Donate 30 Humanity to Quelaags sister and you can open up a shortcut just before Firesage which bypasses the Lava area of Lost Izalith.
>>336284170
FROM almost always shits the bed with the vast majority of the boss soul weapons. They either straight up suck, or are just totally outclassed by other weapons. There are a few that are good or fun, but the majority of them are and have always been garbage.
>>336284485
>The build variety is nonexistent in this game.
There is more build variety in DS3 than there is in 1&2.
>bring back power within
>make it complete shit
>world design is fixed, world seems coherent again over an aborted mess
>level design is top notch once more, cathedral of the deep was the best level I've seen since DeS with all the sections and shortcuts and secrets, and other phenomenal areas
>but the game can't be broken with master key anymore for le epic speedruns, le sigh kappa
fuck you, it might be weaker in openess but who gives a shit when they actually improved every other aspect of the world
>>336282579
There's 4 optional areas you nigger
>>336284612
Nope.
>>336284283
I'd really rather get Centipede Demon over with and sprint through Izalith than sit through the same humanity-offering animation thirty times
Solaire can eat shit, he becomes a sandworm anyway
>>336284612
How do you figure?
>>336284708
Yep.
>>336284612
Just stop dude.
Like really, its pathetic. More build variety than das2? You could literally use dual weild broken straight swords, without power stance, and have a completely viable build in das2
>was really surprised to see /v/ basically be the only place who realized how bad das2 was
>now with das3 it turns out /v/ didn't actually have good taste and just hated everything new
>>336284519
if you're referring to Havel's tower you're fucking retarded.
I'm talking about level/world design here, not environment or anything. Go look up a definition because you clearly think level design = environmental design. I'm not talking about the graphic aspect, only about the quality of the world structure/level layouts.
Are there any good poison dex weapons in this game?
Really loved that one poison katana in DS2
>>336284795
But anon I thought DS2 was a shit game?
>>336284850
DaS2 had a surprisingly high variety in its PvP, not to mention the only game that had an arena that wasn't dead as fuck.
>>336284861
I am talking about the gesamtkunstwerk then.
I don't give a single fuck if one thing is better if that means everything else is worse.
>>336284612
Maybe, but what's the point if most of the builds can be complete only after you went through 80% of the game?
>>336284979
Well I hate mobas so I don't want to actually play in some kind of world of warcraft arena.
Souls is not a fighting game and anyone who plays it "competitively" is even more retarded that people who play party games competitively.
I have nothing but contempt for the arenas and dark souls 2 pvp.
>>336285001
>but what's the point if most of the builds can be complete only after you went through 80% of the game?
It is called progression.
>>336284979
yeah but that's because invasions were dead as fuck apart from bellfags
>>336285001
what would you do, litter the latter half of the game with consumable souls and garbage?
>>336284979
>an arena that wasn't dead as fuck.
What is DS3 Anor Londo arena?
>>336282502
>das2 having the best of anything
lul kys
ITT: why can't I finish the game without playing it
>>336284707
What does that have to do with the post you're replying to you dunce?
>>336285230
The DaS3 equivalent of Oolacile Township.
>go to irithyll
>there's a drop by the bonfire from anor londo
>it serves no real purpose aside from being there for when you get the gear and fall down
>you can just teleport from bonfires so it has no use as a shortcut
>it is one way only so it isn't even a cool means of getting to Anor Londo early
If this had been a DaS1 area you can bet you would have been able to get up there from below or that that would have at least been a useful shortcut.
>>336285230
That's not an actual arena, just popular location for PvP.
>>336280196
You can't even access the archives until you kill 3 lords of cinder
>>336285282
you have no idea how big speedrunning is.
Most people on /v/ have never played any souls game for themselves but have only watched speedruns
and speedruns of das3 are less exciting than speedruns of das1.
>>336285362
So it is better?
>>336285126
nah, most builds revolve around 1/2 weapons or 3/4 spells.
If you can only get these at end game then you're not playing your build until that point.
Your build is supposed to progress as you progress, with rings and leveling.
In DaS1 you could find so much different items right at the start that it allowed you to go throught he game with way more options.
>>336283773
what weapon are you refering to?
>>336285393
I don't care about autists.
>>336284850
/v/ still hates das2 but now you can kind of see in hindsight some of the things das2 did right like weapons/powerstancing, and how it is sorely missed
>whhhhhaaa why can't I progress to the late levels of the game without playing through the earlier ones
>>336280196
>or by just running through the first part of the DLC which you can do exceptionally early and it doesn't require you to be strong at all
And you know the das3 dlc area isn't placed early how exactly?
>>336285393
yes because now people actually have to put in some effort instead of bugging with binoculars and glitching through the world after a parry
>>336285393
Kill yourself. Why the fuck does From need to pander to memerunners now?
>>336284536
Princes are a pure RNG fight, sometimes it's incredibly easy, other times it's endless teleport spam, he can even teleport to the same place he teleported from.
Dancer is "hard" because of the incredibly shitty camera and terrible hitboxes on certain moves (also my framerate drops by 50% in her second form, and gets to a slideshow if she starts spamming those fire or dark effects, which is weird because it doesn't happen with any other boss or area in the game).
>>336285284
Optional areas are choices.
I'm not super excited about the ring farming... to get them all you have to go to ng++, but ng+ offers nothing new.
Say what you want, Dark souls 2 did ng+ right.
>>336285393
>you have no idea how big the saddest thing to leak out of a medium's asshole is
>das3 speedruns less exciting than das1's
boo fukken' hoo
>>336284850
It's normal for /v/'s hipster contrarian bullshit.
>the same people that are complaining in this thread are the same people who use warp tunnels in super mario
fucking Casuals
>>336285580
I don't think it did powerstancing right. But it was a great concept.
But I am not sure I want it simply back. Some of the twin weapons are great. Trick weapons in bb were also preferable.
You can't just combine an UGS and a dagger and get the moveset of the farrong greatsword in das2.
Its the quality vs quantity argument that every discussion around das2 always ends up as. Yeah DaS2 had the most shit but most of it was just that.
>>336284226
>he thinks Nioh is hard
Lol
Try playing Ninja Gaiden Black you child.
>>336285659
>Pure RNG
If you ever use the phrase "RNG" you need seriously consider your life choices.
Prices are an incredibly generic fight. The teleporting is irrelevant, all of his attacks are highly telegraphed and incredibly easy to dodge. I beat them first try without issue. The only thing remotely annoying about it is Lothric's magic missiles, which he usually only does at the beginning of the second phase.
>Dancer is hard because of shitty hitboxes
Yup.
On one hand I want to defend 2's non-linearity but on the other, being a person who is replaying it right now, it wasn't done very well in that game.
DeS made the splits obvious which gave it the right to fuck the player up since he could always choose another path.
In DaS2 ALL roots are viable which leads you to being extremely over-leveled for at least a couple of them.
When it comes to linearity I'd say it goes that way
DeS>3=BB>2>1
I can't defend the NG+ though. It's objectively lazy as fuck. But with that in mind, 3 was the only game except for DeS that I bothered to finish more than 1.5 times.
Also:
I find it pretty funny that whenever someone bitches about 3 they try to pit it against 2 despite the fact that 2 is a goddamn piece of shit that managed to fuck it up on almost every front.
>>336285393
It's not even about speedrunning, calm down your assumptions.
I'm disappointed because I love the feeling of being weak, overwhelmed and lost in an immense, dangerous world. DaS1 had this because of all the paths it had, you were constantly on the move, with no safe reference point.
And this makes the second playthrough even more awesome because this time you can actually see what it's like to go through areas in a different order.
DaS3 is so linear that as I went through, I only thought "Seems like the path I'm taking is literally the only one". And on the second playthrough I got bored halfway through because I realized I was right.
The game has great replayability.
Fuck speedrunners.
Fuck OP.
>>336285912
NG: Black is significantly easier for me than Nioh.
But I've also been playing Ninja Gaiden since the Xbox release so I understand it a lot better than Nioh at this point.
>>336285659
Sounds like you need to do two things:
1) Stop playing on a potato
2) Git gud
How long until the honey moon period is over and we can acknowledge that DaS3 is the easiest, safest and more boring Souls game yet?
>>336285995
This. You can fuck off with your "speedrun strats"
>>336285984
>And on the second playthrough I got bored halfway through because I realized I was right.
I am over 300 hours in already and on my 6th character.
With all of them I did different bosses first because I needed different shit.
I have no idea what you are talking about but it seems like you are more concerned with being right than anything else. So if you convinced yourself it is shit then that is good for you.
Go replay dark souls 1.
>>336286196
Until DaS itself stops being that.
>>336285757
But he was talking about sequence breaking choices available from the start of the game, not a few optional areas that are mostly near the end of the game after defeating a majority of the games bosses you mongoloid.
Maybe you should learn to read before you go around calling people nigger, nigger.
>>336284875
Poison is shit, it's back to DS1 two damage per second for five minutes style
>>336285984
Bonfire warping from the beginning rapes any sense of tension and adventure.
You can literally fuck off back to firelink at the drop of a hat. In Dark Souls 1 you were absolutely on your own for the most part.
I didn't go back to Firelink post-Capra demon. It makes there be actual tension, becuase you have the decision to soldier through Blighttown without moss, or to backtrack and resupply.
FROM threw that out the window in DS2, and continued in BB and DS3. It rapes any sense of decision making and adventure.
>all these faggots acting like DaS3 isn't linear
>while pretending DaS2 never existed
>while purposely forgetting about pre-lordvessel DaS1
A month from now you'll feel very stupid, just like all these people who said DaS2 was better than 1 when it first came out.
>>336285826
>DaS2 did ng+ right.
It's a shame they could never get regular ng right.
What the dicks are you talking about, Anon?
Game is just as linear as any other Dark Souls game. Every new game of DS1 or 2, I dread having to do the undead burg or the forest of giants again, but the way the games branch off later makes it worth it, and DS3 is no different. They all have specific items that can only be earned later in a playthrough.
The dancer skip actually gives the game world an incredible flexibility. Imagine if you could skip to the post Anor Londo world in DS1 in the first hour of gameplay, that'd be insane.
>>336286429
>I didn't go back to Firelink post-Capra demo
Not even for laurentius?
Or the whole patches thing.
You are playing the game like a retard and then complaining that the other games are not pandering to you.
>>336286474
>while purposely forgetting about pre-lordvessel DaS1
Wow. I sure do love backtracking and searching for doors you've missed.
>>336286380
But he clearly mentioned other choices such as Yhorm and Aldrich. How about you learn to read you dumb nigger?
>>336286741
>I hate exploring
You would enjoy Linear Souls 3.
>>336283270
But I want to have fun. A lot of the most fun weapons are way in the end game. If I want to cheese the game then I just pick a Longsword and fuck over the entire game for free.
And fucking Power Within is your spell buff for weapons. Why the fuck should that be at the end of the game?
>>336286580
>an incredible flexibility.
Not really, considering you can't actually access the Grand Archives without killing the lords of cinder. It gets you untended graves, consumed king's garden, and lothric castle. Good amount of areas, but consumed king's garden has practically nothing in it and a lot of shit is locked behind grand archives.
>>336286474
I'm incredibly critical of DS2 and 3, and even Bloodborne but to a lesser extent because it at least tried to be different.
Dark Souls 1 I would consider a classic. It's the kind of game you can replay over and over again. It's got a lot of fuck around potential that the others just don't really have. Once you understand it, it's easy to clear in a single sitting, and making new characters and builds becomes trivial. That's true for all of them, but Dark Souls 1 just nails the feel and the gameworld. The covenants weren't totally gutted or broken, even though there was really only a handful worth using. Invaders weren't placed at massive disadvantages, and the bosses were mostly enjoyable.
Dark Souls 2 and 3 just feel lazy and lacking. Sure, you can make the same points I made for Dark Souls but they just feel off.
Demon's is my favorite, but I think Dark Souls is objectively a better game.
>>336286474
>almost every boss in das3 can be the 3rd or fourth one
>only the princes are locked behind a gate which is fair enough since they are essentially the end boss of das3 while the soul of cinder is the end boss of the series.
Seriously go through das1 in your head again. You have to kill the gargoyles and taurus to even open sens.
>>336286921
Power Within is a body buff. If you want a weapon buff you can get Magic Weapon right after Iudex
>>336284735
but it's still fucking optional you retard
>>336287075
Taurus demon is optional
>>336287075
you dont have to kill taurus
>>336285642
Having multiple options early in was a staple of the previous two DaS games and DeS. Its not pandering to speedrunners, its just continuing what they've been doing. Speedrunning is just a side effect from their interesting design.
>>336287153
I mean queelag.
Sorry.
>>336283270
I'd say weapons are very well balanced in 3. And it's not like you couldn't start 2 with a retard's hammer that would faceroll you trough 3/4 of the game
>>336284612
True, you can choose between the estoc or the dark sword or astoras straight sword.
>>336287208
and you don't have multiple options in das3?
again almost all bosses can be the third one in das3.
>>336282364
Ah. No. Speedruns are still a thing. It doesn't matter where the items are there will always be a fastest way to complete the game... It's illogical to think otherwise.
>>336280196
Been saying this since the release day but no-one listens or cares.
The fact that MIYAZAKI is in the 'director' is enough for these idiots to go fully blind about the flaws of the game.Well okay I would've never believed that it would go so far that the new game could be as linear as this and still okay
>>336286921
>But I want to have fun.
The game is fun, if you can't have just because there is a weapon you can't get until later in the game then that is your problem.
>Why the fuck should that be at the end of the game?
Why the fuck should it be?
All I see in this thread are people crying about the game not being the way they want it to be.
You are not special little snowflakes, games are not made especially for you the way you want them to be.
>>336280196
The only thing that got me to start NG+ was to try and get all the NPC quests right but fuck me man, how awfully are these quests put together? For the fuckin love of god I'm even using a walkthrough but still the game isn't doing what it's supposed to do when it comes to Sirris.
>Hit Halfway Fortress
>Talk to Anri and Horace
>Travel to firelink
>Talk to Sirris, she disappears
>Get dreamchasers ashes
>Hand them in to the old cunt
>Sirris not appearing in firelink
>Google it, more people experiencing the same
>Apparently her summon sign Will appear on the bridge anyways
>Down the monster at bridge
>Go to other side hit bonfire
>Go back to check for summon sign of Sirris
>mfw no summon sign
>tried reloading area didn't work
Fuck this shit. Fuck you From.
>>336287382
Same shit happened to me. I just had to reload my save. Don't know why its so retarded though.
>>336284607
>FROM patches it out for no real reason
It was a glitch. Holy shit, /v/ really is composed of retards.
>>336283584
You're a fucking tumor
>>336287245
There are many weapons to choose from, only scrubs will use those weapons because they know they are OP.
>>336283061
Soul Memory doesn't do shit. SM is not what's bad about DkS2. I wish this meme would die.
>>336285826
>have to go to NG+2/3 if you want to avoid grinding up every covenant in order to get every spell
>which is necessary to have all achievments
It wasn't perfect. Definitely better than 3, though.
>>336286260
Sadly for you, linearity isn't something subjective, it actually depends on the way the world layout is designed.
>>336287534
Yeah, sure, it was a glitch.
But it wasn't hurting anyone. It wasn't something you were going to find blindly in your first playthrough. You weren't going to accidentally do that.
There were actually places that people got stuck and needed to hunters mark out of. Those should've been fixed. Companies need to learn that it's OK to leave stuff in that's fun for your player base.
>>336287305
>again almost all bosses can be the third one in das3.
>vordt, dancer, oceiros, armor, tree, sages, watchers
less then half bosses != almost all bosses
>>336287589
I was just making a joke. I honestly think this is the worst release balance a souls games has ever had, but I'm sure they'll sort it out.
I did my first run with the great sword, using a straight sword after that is like playing on turbo easy mode, it's a fucking joke.
>>336287712
Not counting tutorial obviously
But I am also not counting the tutorial for das1 since that is before the game opens up.
Iudex Gundyr and The asylum demon obviously don't count right?
We are not stupid here.
>>336287512
How far back did you have to load? I feel like dropping this shit because there's not really a reason to play for me anymore now.
>>336287667
It is also not something objectively good.
>>336287016
>Dark Souls 1 just nails the feel and the gameworld.
>Demon's is my favorite, but I think Dark Souls is objectively a better game.
mah nigga
Also loved how the covenants in DaS1 are directly related to the game's storyline. The Darkwraith path blew my mind the first time.
DaS3 is the most linear yet, thats why it's boring
>>336286760
He's listing the the paths you can take from the BEGINNING of the game you idiot, and how there's no way to deviate from those paths once you're on them. The fact that optional areas exist doesn't provide any sort of sequence braking whatsoever.
>>336287667
Part of it is that Dark Souls exists as a column.
Dark Souls 2 and Dark Souls 3 largely exist as vast flat expanses.
You're literally going from A to B in a line. It's really apparent since Firelink isn't directly connected to anything, and you get flown from Lothric Wall to the Undead Settlement. Theres no way to sequence break, because it's a line.
It's just like the whole Drangleic Castle to Shrine of Amana to the Undead Crypts area. It's a line. Theres no way to bypass an area to get to another one.
>>336287985
That is also true, completely depends on the type of the gamr.
>>336287965
Nah I mean I just quit to the main menu and reloaded and her sign was there.
ITT: retards trying to pull the blanket on top of their first souls game
>duuude like, 1 was so "open" and "alive", like, come on bro
>naaw, man 2 was the best! fuck haters it was soo non-linear n' shit
It's easy to pick out minor shit that you personally preferred in the game and forget things 3 did objectively better like
>boss variety
>weapons being pretty fucking balanced for PVE (no zweihanders or cleric's maces)
>the best upgrade system
>best healing system that actively prevents you from farming
>faster combat straight from BB without some of BB's negatives
>best covenant mechanics
>PVP that is ACTUALLY merged well with PVE instead of forcing people into MLG arenas
>biggest variety of weapons and armor
etc
>>336287985
>giving players choices and options isn't good
Some games work as linear experiences, others don't Dark Souls has always been about exploration and discovery, and Dark Souls 3 really missed the mark on that.
>>336288192
>>weapons being pretty fucking balanced for PVE (no zweihanders or cleric's maces)
yeah we darksword now
Ok guys, I'm starting a LOW LEVEL WHIP ONLY run in a bit.
Wish me luck!
>>336288089
But the dancer sequence break is already better than everything in das1.
One is a boss that is beatable but harder on low level and the stupid shit in das1 is "farming 20000 souls" or farming 30 humanity
Are you all seriously kidding me here posting maps of dark souls as if that means anything?
>>336287845
>gets proved wrong
>ups but it doesn't count
You know what, let's count everything before fighting the first Lord as tutorial, that way your bullshit claims will be even better
What if the DLC adds in new interconnected areas?
Probably unlikely, but it might be interesting to see.
>>336288192
>weapons being pretty fucking balanced for PVE
>if you aren't using an estoc or a straightsword you're actively gimping yourself
>balanced
Dark Souls 3 achieved balance by preemptively nerfing everything interesting in the game.
Having slowly gone through the first playthrough at around 30-35 hours seeing as much as I could and blasting through NG+ and NG+2 to get the rest of the achievements, it really does feel lacking.
NG+ is boring to go through and the game is so damn short because no bosses and not many areas. I won't deny the quality of the bosses or the areas but there really just isn't enough.
Even with Das 2 I felt like I was on a journey because of the retarded amount of areas but Das 3 I felt like I was driving down to the mall because everything is so close together.
>>336280196
>kill lady who gives you banner
>fight dancer early
>get to lothric castle before even fighting vordt
the games is an non linear as the others, you just have to GIT GUD
>>336288192
I played DeS on release and BB is still my favourite, what now nerd?
BB > DeS = DaS > DS3 > DS2
I just think From is crap at sequels. I guarantee if DS2 and DS3 were new ips we would have better games on our hands.
>>336288192
>moving the goalpost
the entire thread is about the linearity of DaS3, what the fuck are you trying to prove here? That DaS3 did a lot of things better? I'm sure everyone agree on that, but that's not what this thread is about retard.
>>336288089
>>336282579
>Go to Yhorm, or Pontiff and Aldritch (you have to do both anyways)
>beginning of the game
Why are you so retarded?
>>336288365
I mean we can count the first boss.
But all the maps people are talking about that open up FROM THE BEGINNING don't count then.
Because the beginning is incredibly linear until asylum demon.
Hell at least before iudex there is an optional "mini-boss" in form of the crystal lizard there.
Are you seriously going to tell me das1 opening was better you cunt?
>>336288493
Until you run into a locked door that doesn't open.
>>336288573
And it also did non-linearity better
outside of speedruns.
But who the fuck cares about speedruns.
>>336288192
The second you arrive in Firelink, Majula and Firelink in DS1 2 and 3 where can you go?
>DS1
>Catacombs
>New Londo Ruins
>Undeadburg
Now, if you've got the master key, New Londo can open up into Valley of Drakes, and is a bridge to both Blighttown, -and- the Darkroot Garden. Catacombs unfortunately get the orange wall of death but let you do stuff in there.
>DS2
>Forest of Fallen Giants
>Heides Tower of Flame
>The Gutter (locked out until you get HP and a ring, or laddersmith gilligan)
>Whatever the fuck that paths called, forked road (locked out until you find a branch)
Those 2 options basically lead to the bastille, and huntsman's corpse in a linear fashion, theres no way to progress without clearing at least a boss (Dragon Rider and Pursuer)
>DS3
>Lothric Wall
You have no way to progress besides beating a boss. You have to kill Vordt, -or- Dancer to progress further.
>>336288462
>if you aren't using an estoc or a straightsword you're actively gimping yourself
I use a greatsword and I win 90% of my PvP
fights. Straight swords and estoc have to get in close, if you keep your distance with a greatsword they are no problem.
>>336287985
>Giving the player the option to tackle several different areas/bosses from the start of the game, despite difficulty isn't objectively good in a souls game
It would've certainly helped with how bland DaS3 gets with subsequent playthroughs.
>>336288823
das1 is blander.
I already replayed das3 more times because it is just better.
>>336288741
see
>>336287667
DaS3 did not do non-linearity at all
>>336288803
>estoc has to get in close
It has spear levels of poke.
>>336288803
PVE was written in his statement. I'm seriously concerned about literacy levels.
>>336288479
are you really saying this game lacks bosses? Vanilla dark souls 1 only had 3 more bosses than dark souls 3 and 3 of those were of 22 in dark souls 1 vanilla were just asylum demon
>>336288932
Great argument buddy.
CoD is more better than das1
I played it more times cuz it was more betterer
>>336289057
How the fuck are you gimping yourself in PvE by not using an Estock or Short sword?
Up until after the Rotten Greatwood all I used was a dagger. After that I started using a greatsword.
Only people who would feel as though they were gimped are people who need OP or easy mode weapons to win.
>>336288315
>>336288462
>say the game is well balanced for PVE
>people start bitching about PVP meta weapons in response
I guess this just shows how dense and entitled PVP lovers in souls are.
>>336288967
>have the choice to kill dancer early and fight oceiros, champion iudex or dragonslayer armor early
>compared to
>catacombs
ONE boring boss and then a fog wall
>new londo
useless without having killed sif first
Can't even remove the water without killing an npc.
Or the normal way
How is das3 not better.
Explain that to me.
Because there are some random connections?
They also are in das3.
Just visible.
Would you really gain that much if there was a pointless elevator from undead settelement to farron keep?
I mean the connection is there and you can see it from both sides.
What do you gain by walking through it?
>>336288238
Even if the overarching world design isn't as nonlinear as the first game, the individual areas gave you plenty of shit to look at.
And not rewarding exploration or discovery? The entire Archdragon Peak is hidden behind a gesture found at the end of a different optional area. I'd disagree with that entirely.
REHASH SOULS 3
>>336289127
>I think das3 is bland
>well I think das1 is bland
>fuck you go back to COD
I am just meeting you on your level. You have not posted any proof that das3 is bland.
Why is the burden of proof on my end?
>>336287667
they should add a short cut in the wall bridge with that demon made of ashes. that way you can skip unded settlement, and the first swamp area to go directly to the poison swamp
>>336288493
>2 paths (1 with a dead end until later) instead of 1
>suddenly not linear compared to previous games
just no
>>336289456
Needing something to win isn't the same as something not being objectively better.
Fast weapons especially straight sword are objectively better for PvE. Period. End of conversation.
There is almost nothing that the dark sword is not better at in PvE than every great sword or ultra great sword.
In the previous games there were more noticable trade offs to each weapon type. It was rare for something to outclass the other in nearly every metric.
>>336289923
dancer also opens up towards two different ways after killing her.
How is that worse than catacombs?
catacombs is one boss and then a fog wall
Dancer is one boss then a choice of two and after one of them is another one.
>>336285995
/thread
>>336289673
>statement
>no evidence to back it up
>get told about it
>GEE WHY U SO MEAN
not even that anon
All these kids shouting PROOF without delivering itself first. And you just spouted buzzwords
>it's blander
>because this one is better
>because I SAY SO
>>336290232
Dark souls 3 opens up new paths through boss fights.
Dark Souls 1 opens up new paths through grinding
The main appeal of dark souls 1 here at least according to the people in this thread seems to be that you can play less of it.
I am not sure that makes the game better in any way.
>>336289481
FREEDOM AND NOT LINEARITY DO YOU FAIL TO READ YOUR OWN POST YOU DUMB FAGGOT
>>336289513
Too bad the only decent thing to find or see in that entire area is one extra slab, that sadly requires you to go through the shittiest excuse for a boss fight in the game, and worst and most annoying enemies in the entire game.
>>336288796
Yeah. Except no one in their right mind would ever consider going anywhere but Undeadburg when playing DaS. It's always the same fucking road to gargoyles then catacombs/lower bell. The fact that the game lets you bang your head on locations that are OBVIOUSLY not meant to be beaten in any other order outside of NG+ does not create a better experience. ESPECIALLY combined with the fact that you had to backtrack trough this garbage until you obtain the lordvessel.
Outside of whole little cool Kaathe thing, 1 was by far the worst when it came to non-linearity.
>>336290038
>Fast weapons especially straight sword are objectively better for PvE. Period. End of conversation.
But that isn't true.. Why have I had no problem using greatswords?
I started off using a dagger and daggers are the fastest weapons in the game. I then used the Hollowslayer for a while the moved on to the great machete. I have also used great axes and spears and had no problems with either.
Instead of just spamming R1 you should try learning the different styles and timings of other weapons.
>>336290382
>Grinding
argument invalid
>>336290402
I guess skyrim is the best game then since I can just walk everywhere without doing anything.
They are all videogames.
They are all limited
HOW they give the player choice on where to go is way more important than how many times they do.
>>336290461
Congratulations, you just won "Moronic shitposter of the day"
Please kill yourself at earliest convenience.
>>336290504
30 humanity is not grinding?
20000 souls is not grinding?
Give me one good reason those great optional ways are hidden behind that
Not even talking about the stupidity of the master's key being objectively the best starting gift therefore making the starts even more samey.
>>336280196
>The ability to quickly access specific things has always been
Okay now, I admit I havent played DS1 in years but I remember it wasnt THAT easy to get everything you wanted for your build right away.
Most areas are only acessible when you go through previous ones.
I can't tell if this thread is full of trolling or people with serious reading comprehension issues. God damn.
>>336288342
>farming 20000 souls
Or y'know, using the fucking ladder that lets you bypass that door entirely.
>>336290461
>>336290461
>Having the option to visit hard areas from the beginning
>Bad non-linearity
>>336290828
That is just the normal way through the gardens.
>>336290551
Are you literally evading the fact of DaS3 linearity now? BB, DaS and DeS are better than DaS3 in terms of freedom.
>>336290485
Look I'm getting pretty tired of this conversation. I'm not saying stuff is unusable, I've beaten the game 3 times so far once with greatsword one dexfag and one bleedshitter using fist weapons.
Straight swords do more damage faster than ugs. The also have greater ability to break poise because number of hits seems to factor in more heavily.
My dark sword on my quality guy has 450 sheet damage with no buffs. My great sword on the same character has a bit under 600 damage no buffs.
The dark sword can swing 2-3 times in the same period of time while spending less stamina than the great sword. The great sword is slow so the options you have in terms of taking advantage of boss openings is greatly dimished.
What do you gain by using the great sword? A bit of range I guess. Slightly higher damage per hit but way lower damage over time.
It's just a worse option almost across the board. Is it unusable? No obviously not, I said I beat the game using it. But it's fucking awful compared to a straight sword and the gap between the two was much smaller in past games.
>>336290453
I think the reward for exploration should be cool shit. You'll probably agree with me there.
Your problem is that your definition of cool shit ends at "good items." The Nameless King was one of the coolest fights in the game, and the whole area was a great change of pace aesthetically from the mostly darker areas in the rest of the game.
>>336290909
Like dancer oceiros and gundyr and all the areas of them being early options?
>yfw you realized that DaS, DeS and BB are on a completely different level than the sequel games
>>336284439
Nah. DkS2 is great. All the Souls games + Bloodborne are fantastic. I love them all. You're the one with shit taste.
>>336290959
BB is about as linear as dark souls 3.
Demon's has no world connectivity.
DaS3 has the most freedom in terms of builds and progression.
>>336290109
>How is that worse than catacombs?
it's worse because those paths in DaS3 are useless, there is absolutely no reason to kill dancer or anything after her early, you'll only get early access to chunks which will be useless anyway since you won't have large shards by then, and pretty much everything you can craft from those bosses is shit with the exception of Armor's axe
at least you could get to another blacksmith or get rite of kindling from pinwheel at the start
>>336290746
Dupe a firekeeper soul like 6 times and you have 30 humanity
>muh grinding
>muh cheating
>duping
We're talking about sequence breaking here which is most likely only being done for specific reason. Doing a "minimalist" run and skipping as much as possible easily warrants the use of duping.
>>336282579
What are the best weapons to bleed with?
I might use a weapon specially for bleeding, even infusing it with that gem that increases bleed. Or does it not work that way?
>>336283612
>Why the fuck does linearity even matter in these games?
It makes it fucking boring when you have to do everything in the same fucking order, with the same limited pool of options every time you want to try a different type of character. Are you just shitposting, or are you really this fucking dense?
>>336291049
Yeah the sequels are shitty because they are sequels.
>>336291095
>builds and progression
am i being baited here?
>>336291106
and rite of kindling gives you what?
More estus
Oh wow there is also an estus shard and undead bone ash right after the dancer
That is literally the same upgrade here.
also there is plenty of good shit in lothric castle. The tome for miracles alone makes it worth it as a faith build.
>>336291179
>What are the best weapons to bleed with?
Anri's.
Mostly because:
>scales on luck
>straight sword
>high base damage
>2HP regen/tick
There are better "bleed" weapons, but you can just put a carthus rouge on anything and have it be an effective bleed weapon. Luck increases the bleed build up so you can get double duty from the Anri's.
>>336291286
Not really:
There are more builds in das3 than das1. and they all progress differently.
>>336285141
Confirmed for never invading. I invaded so fuckin much in DkS2 it was NUTS. Hundreds and hundreds of invasions in all the zones. It was so amazingly fun.
>>336291398
At first I was hesitant but I might try that build since redistributing stats is easy.
