ITT: Infamous mechanics fans hated but you didn't mind.
Pic related, the law system in Tactics Advance. I thought it mostly offered an interesting challenge.
>fighting group of dragons
>law is no hurting animals
>dragons count as animals
>no way to hurt them without rbeaking law
>remember that I have a beasttamer for some reason
>control the dragon
>make him hit his buddy
>he gets sent to jail
>continue until all dragons are in jail
>someone sacrifices themself to kill the last dragon and go to jail
FUCKING STUPID
>>334756414
The no damage laws were easily the stupidest esp when you consider having to control territory and the amount of random fights you need to do laws in FFTA could be such a bitch but 80% of the time they didn't really matter.
>>334756112
>interesting challenge
yeah right with shit like
>DMG2:Animals on a map full of animals
It was so fun and challenging!
FFXII Judges were cooler
>>334756958
You could have just walked around to where it wasn't that law. Or kept a law card on hand.
I'm with OP, just in that it was hardly as big of a struggle as people made it out to be.
I remember I reached the last boss of this game, and on that match I had that copycat or whatever it's called law where you can't do the same move twice in a row. I literally killed the boss, but because I used attack to finish Marche got arrested and I got a game over.For the most part though, I do agree that they made it an interesting challenge.
>>334756112
It's a good thing Judges started chilling the fuck out in the sequel. If I recall properly, the most that breaking a law did was gyp you out of a few bonus items.
>>334756112
Yeah, it worked great in my opinion. It wasn't unbalanced as fuck as in FFTA2 either.
>>334757659
that sounds stupid
>>334756414
This is what was wrong with it
it's one thing to offer up new challenges but they never balanced that shit out so you wouldn't be caught in a situation where you were absolutely fucked
>>334757826
FFTA is stupid by design
>>334757902
>I literally don't know how to play so the game is dumdum and ungood >:(
not being able to lock the camera to your character in dota 2
FUCK LEAGUE GUYS
just fucking check the laws ffs
how did people not get this. you were 100% in control of whatever law was applicable to your fight. especially after law cards!
>>334758198
THIS!
>>334757826
Oh I was pissed and literally haven't played that game since. I don't know why, but playing it on emulator causes some weird glitch where it's difficult to even get the last fights to begin, so rarely even getting a shot at the boss just to fail over some dumb law made me hate it for a while.
>>334758101
Played it, beat it and finished all the missions
It doesn't mean that it wasn't poorly designed and should have had a contingency for situations where you have a law against attacking the entire opposing team, there's no other way to handle it if you don't have the cards to nullify the law so you're completely fucked
The Law System was retarded, and so is anyone defending it.
>>334758618
>I bought someone's savegame, I'm good at games!!1
>>334758198
>Law: No ranged attacks
>Well that sounds easy enough! I'll just bring a team of melee attackers
>Score a critical hit
>Enemy is knocked away a square by the crit
>Judge sees it as a ranged attack since we didn't finish on adjacent squares, and slaps my ass with a red card
>>334758676
How can people like you even breathe? How's it like being too dumb to understand a game that 8 years old can understand without issue?
>>334758101
If you're mentally challenged, say so first, that way people won't call you bad names. When you write.
>>334758746
Check the description of the law, it states things like these.
>>334758882
Oh good, so I knew it was coming.
So, how does that stop me from accidentally getting a crit then?
>>334758618
It did. Head to Ezel's shop and buy some fucking cards.
>>334759009
Surround and pound the chumps, have a melee gangbang.
>>334758882
What crit attacks are banned in the description?
>>334759009
... were you dropped on the head as a kid?
>>334757393
I want topatronizehim.
>>334759164
Or you know, just wait for the law to change on its own.
>>334759187
It's OK, Timmy, one day I'm sure you'll grow a third brain cell!
>>334759303
I mean, that's what I did, but the card shop was the manner by which the devs explicitly said, "We know you might not like the laws sometimes, so here's an out. You just can't abuse it."
>>334759164
Yes that solved every problem because you always bought every card that you needed in the future
FFTA is the worst clone of TO made by square yet there are still retards that will defend it the death.
>>334759574
>TO
>even remotely playable
>FFTA
>not literally the best game in the genre
>>334756112
>LAW: NO RANGED ATTACKS
> Random crit on a melee attack
>Crit moves the target 2 squares back
>YOU BROKE THE LAW
>RED CARD GO TO JAIL
Yes I can see why this is an interesting challenge
>>334759695
Defending TO doesn't degrade a person as much as FFTA. But go ahead no amount of mental gymnastics can justify the shit plot, setting, character, music, and destroying the last pitiful semblance of balance that FFT had in a attempt to be original.
>>334759781
>literally too retarded to read the law description
>literally too retarded to place someone or something behind the enemy before attacking
>literally too retarded to remove the law
>waaaaah! da gaem iz 2herd ;_; pls hoeld muh hand!1
Why is neo-/v/ so disgusting?
>enemy spams banned action
>YELLOW CARD YELLOW CARD YELLOW CARD
What was even the point, just have the judge ignore the fucker if he can't jail him.
>>334760160
In fariness, you're not going to realise melee attacks can count as ranged attacks until you get punished for it.
If it happens to you twice though, then you're an idiot for not learning from the first time.
>>334760160
It's not too hard it's a stupid limitation resulting from bad coding.
>>334760295
this is the only thing I disliked about the law system
>>334756112
I don't get why people don't just wander around the map and manipulate the law to their advantage, or use law cards.
>only defense of the mechanic is
>it wasn't that bad
or
>you're just dumb and don't get it
it's a shit mechanic. I don't get how you guys are trying to act so superior when FFTA was a casual game anyways.
yeah, if you pay attention, or just anti-law it, it makes no difference, but how does that make it a good mechanic?
Laws adds nothing to the game except a few gotchas if you didn't read it too closely, or make you waste time running around for the law to change.
>>334760442
I don't get why you think wandering around to manipulate the law or just removing it from the equation altogether with anti-law makes laws good additions to the game.
>>334760402
The player shouldn't be forced to sandwich every enemy before attacking them just to compensate for Square's lazy programming.
It ain't the player's fault.
>>334760295
>>334760437
Same here. I got really hyped the first time I had an enemy that was going to break the law a lot. I totally expected the entire other team to get jailed.
>>334760420
(You)
>>334760464
this, the best defense is elaborate ways you could circumvent it being a problem, which is the fundamental issue with laws. It either hurt you, or didn't affect you, and having a mechanic like that doesn't contribute anything to gameplay.
>>334759186
Why do the gondolas hate spurdo?:
>>334760464
>yeah, if you pay attention it makes no difference but how does that make it a good mechanic?
Can't you say that about every obstacle in any game?
>>334760581
It really is, the game probably checks for law violation after the action not before it. And there is probably some stupid formula involving spaces between units used to judge if it's ranged or not.
>>334759521
The scarcity was there to encourage you to only by the cards for shit you couldn't contend with. It's a tactics and strategy game, fucking strategize.
>>334759009
Have a wall or another unit at the opposite side so they dont move when they get crit. Its not fucking rocket science
>literally did nothing wrong tier
>>334760740
No?
Paying attention won't make the actual enemies go away, it won't make them stop casting spells, terrain will still get in the way, I don't get what you mean there.
With anti-law cards you can literally make the law mechanic go away. Or, the you make sure the law can't affect you, so again, mechanic makes no difference.
The only thing law does is make you go
>oh shit I forgot I can't do X, how annoying
but if you pay attention it doesn't affect you at all. It certainly doesn't add challenge.
>>334760907
it's stupid to have to jump through that hoop to counteract the RANDOM CHANCE that the game will PENALIZE you even though YOU FOLLOWED THE LETTER OF THE LAW. I understand how I'd prevent it but that sure as fuck doesn't make it okay you retard
>>334756112
I honestly learned what "staves" were because of this game. Even before that Penny Arcade comic came out too.
I really enjoyed FFTA. I mean every game in the FFT series was great, but being able to tote FFTA around with my brand new GBA SP was amazing.
>>334760795
Go back to r.eddit, that's obviously where you belong.
>>334756112
I thought the autonomous party members in P3 enhanced the combat. Each character made decisions according to their personality rather than always doing what was optimal. So had to learn each characters tendencies and make an educated guess about what they will probably do next round when planning your own action. And once you learned enough tactics, you could avoid most of the bad stuff, like Mitsuru trying to charm everyone.
>>334760907
It's not rocket science, but it is a fucking massive waste of time just because Square was too lazy to code that shit properly.
Maybe a NEET like you doesn't mind taking four times as long to complete a battle because you have to position your units in bullshit ways to compensate for developer oversights, but some of us have jobs and responsibilities and want to spend our limited playtime having fun rather than fucking around with inane shit.
>>334761164
>law clearly explains its conditions
>disrespect the conditions
>Waa waaaaaa! the law wasn't clear when it explained to me like I was a 1 year old how it worked! Waaaaaa game too hard ;_;
>>334761198
My problem with it is that I don't think it's particularly interesting to play a game where the majority of your party is controlled by the AI. It's like make one decision, then watch the AI do their thing.
>>334761373
the law is against ranged attacks. I didn't do a ranged attack. My normal melee attacks will just push the opponents to a range, after/during/because of the attack that was NOT performed at a range. I read what the law asked and did it, but I'm punished for a loophole that doesn't make sense that I need to waste a bunch of time to avoid.
>>334756112
Yeah I was never really bothered too much by the laws.
Even had clan members sent to the slammer, stat penalties you name it.
It just never bothered me that much. I dont even know why.
I just accepted it. Am I a sheeple? Oppressed by a industrial prison complex?
Did anyone else find the changes made in the sequel off-putting?
Like the way accuracy worked on attacks.
I just remember Jump for Dragoon's suddenly being 70% chance to hit and feeling more like 30% chance to hit.
On the topic of Infamous mechanics fans hated but I didn't mind and Final Fantasy
Carrying the chalice in FF:CC.
I thought of it as like a battle area you were carrying around and moving with you.
So you have to set it down and choose your battle territory in accordance to what enemies you are facing,
pick it back up and run when a boss is winding up a big attack. I thought it added a lot to the gameplay.
>>334761373
>only defence of the mechanic is
>you don't get it you are dumb
No one ever answer the question of "what makes it a good mechanic".
>>334761402
Not the same anon but I kinda liked it since it made your other party members feel more like people. It was you relying on your friends to help you, and them relying on you to do the same.
>>334761565
Go be inbred somewhere else please.
>>334760950
>He was figuratively the villain of the game
>>334761639
Yeah, I agree with your whole post.
Does the sailing in Wind Waker count?
>>334761667
I never identified with the protag so to me I was just controlling some dude but for some reason I couldn't control the other dudes.
>fight archers
>no ranged attacks allowed
>my party just stands around buffing themselves for free xp.
>max level by the third mission
the game had some problems.
>>334761652
>only offence of the mechanic is
>I am literally so retarded I need a machine to breathe on my behalf
No one ever answer the question of "why you belong on 4chan"
>>334761820
Fair enough, I can see why it wouldn't be enjoyable then.
>>334761257
For the last time, fucking around with inane shit is fun! Fun!!!
>>334761565
>no ranged laws in the game
>you're a faggot who never played the game
>>334761864
thanks for proving my point. If it adds nothing to the game it's not a good mechanic.
>>334762306
You really are an idiot, aren't you? Restrictions are a challenge. Nevermind that your example a shit, anyway.
>>334761813
NO. Literally no one enjoys that, so it's not applicable to the thread.
>>334762423
>Restrictions are a challenge
>run around a bit to change the law
>or just use anti-law cards
Adds nothing but time-wasting to the game
>>334762612
Not the guy you're quoting but restrictions are a challenge. Objectively.
You can argue how fair the restrictions are or not.
>>334761565
I'm fairly sure that law doesn't exist in FFTA, maybe in FFTA 2, and breaking the law in that game is largely inconsequential.
>>334756414
Spell cast through Doublecast aren't checked against the active laws, so you can use it to bypass all of them except No red/colour magic.
>>334762849
His point is that everyone just circumvents the restriction anyway, and the common suggestion when you complain about laws is that you circumvent them.
A restriction that everyone just circumvents isn't a restriction, it's just a pointless waste of time.
>>334762849
I can argue that restrictions that don't actually restrict you and just add tedium are not good mechanics though.
Again, one of the very arguments the people defending this are using is that you can easily bypass the mechanic. But what you do to bypass the mechanic isn't interesting, nor does it add to the challenge.
So that makes it a bad mechanic. Arguably it might be better if anti-law cards just didn't exist, or that you couldn't cycle trough the laws by walking around. If they instead of adding bypasses they just tightened the mechanic as to make sure it just added challenge instead of making certain missions impossible without using any of the bypasses then it'd be a good mechanic.
>>334761196
>he has an opinion I don't like!
>I'll tel him to go to reddit that will show him.
Here's your (you) fagit.
>>334763156
You'll still end up having to compromise unless you want to "cheat" on purpose and decide on a meme lineup that is completely unaffected in any way by some of the rules.
>>334759164
>It did. Head to Ezel's shop and buy some fucking cards.
what if you could not stand FFTA to get to that part?
and I swear the Anti-Law cards would not activate when I tried to use them
>>334758125
Pretty sure most DotA 2 players don't hate it, especially since map awareness is way more fucking important in DotA
>>334756112
God that system was so fucking stupid.
>>334758125
you can do that but it's stupid
>can't kill animals
>mission has only animals
your main options are
>walk around the map a bit to cycle the laws
circumventing the restriction thus making it pointless
>Use anti-law card to remove it or law card to change it
circumventing the restriction thus making it pointless
I'm not against a mechanic that, for example, makes me switch classes because x weapon can't be used.
The problem is, laws are not well designed. The devs got lazy and instead of balancing shit, they just added ways to ignore the law system completely.
>>334760160
He's got a point, though. Sure, it's an unlikely scenario, but it's still dumb to punish someone for getting the wrong number. The most you can do to mitigate that is to use a weapon/class with a low crit rate.
And even then, you still get punished for rolling the wrong number on the die.
>>334756414
That's why so many people fucking hate it.
>beast hunting mission
>CAN'T HURT ANIMALS, RED CARD, FUCK YOU
>boss battle against a very hard group of enemies
>NO HEALING, RED CARD, BECAUSE FUCK YOU
It wouldn't even be so bad if red cards only applied to hardcore shit or if they didn't apply until the end of the battle. Yellow cards were rarely even fucking relevant, just stupid shit like "no casting time magic" or "not allowed to use antidotes"
>Healing is banned
>Don't remember if it was a spell or potion or whatever
>Early on in the game
>MC is trapped in a tough situation
>Can't do anything about it
I just said fuck it and booted up FE, after reading this thread I now know that there might have been ways to circumvent the law system, but how was I supposed to know that without looking up a walkthrough or otherwise getting spoiled.
Before that happened I had a lot of fun though, but the law system effectively killed my interest in the game.
>>334763156
>>334763323
The execution was janky but it did offer some interesting scenarios.
If tweaked and expanded upon it could have been a really fun mechanic.
Like purposely building a team of all moogles and adding your own law. No damaging moogles.
And the lawless maps were a refreshing break from the tyranny of the judges.
With the caveat of anyone who dies on those maps dies for good.
They could have done a lot more with that as well. Make illegal abilities that only work in Jagds like kidnapping enemy clan members.Maybe rape?
>>334759164
>Either completely ignore it or completely get fucked by it.
Yes, truly the epitome of great design. Let's not forget how fucking broken it is if you even attempt to use it against your opponent.
So lets see:
>Completely disregardable
>Fuck you
>Completely fuck over your opponent.
Pick your poison, /v/.
>>334764470
I agree with this so much. If the team behind TA had a better sense of humor they could've angled the law system in a way that encouraged players to fuck with it and produce funny results.
>>334756112
The system never bothered me because I actually had some variance in my party, whiners are just shitters.
>>334763978
Nobody is being punished for getting the wrong numbers as opposed to being pants on head retarded.
FFTA was so disappointing in pretty much every way for me.
>>334768182
You should play TO, then you'll worship FFTA as your new lord and savior.
>>334768612
TO as in Tactics Ogre? Cause all those games blow FFTA out of the water cause even though you can argue the gameplay may be better or worse the story/characters at least for me vastly makes up for it. FFTA was boring, had dumb mechanics, uninteresting aesthetic, then to top it off boring story and lifeless characters.
>>334769291
I lol'd out loud. Well played!
>>334759009
You could use skills. Those usually can't crit. Sometimes they had knockback, though.
>>334756112
>NO KNOCKBACK law active
>enemy randomly runs up and smacks one of my frontline fighters
>character counters with a crit
>RED CARD, NO KNOCKBACK
Shit system.
On the other hand, I liked the combat system in Paper Mario Sticker Star. The stickers were an interesting resource, and it rewarded better players who could either manage their stickers or avoid encounters, and who had good enough timing to get those damage bonuses. Bosses were very challenging as well, due to the limited number of attacks available and due to healing being one of those attacks.
Of course, I hated Kersti whining every time I took down a boss the hard way.
>>334772010
You know you can disable reflex moves, r-right?
>>334772346
Yes. I just didn't imagine that it would apply to a law like No Knockback until it came up. Well, that's 15 minutes of my time wasted.
