do we define casual games and hardcore games? Is there a checklist that you can reference?
Because apparently Skyrim is "casual" where I thought it was hardcore and had a high skill ceiling
Single player games can't be hardcore. Playing against other people is the only way to make a game difficult.
>>333610125
Is she a russian casual or trans?
>>333610125
Harcore games are mostly defined by very complex mechanics, take metal gear solid 2 and 3 for example, you needed to press a series of buttons to stick to a wall and then lean or do something, but then came muh "context sensitive" shit wich is a fucking joke, like when i was trying a newer splinter cell and the motherfucker decided to climb a container in a place full of guards and snipers on the fucking roof, because of how shit the ai was, i didnt got caught, not even a ?.
UT99 infiltration mod is a hardcore 1st person shooter, games like counter strike is casual shit.
>>333610618
That pretty much closes this thread
But the OP could send nude of her
Just kidding.
>>333610125
Streamlined console shit with RNG is a far cry from hardcore. Nor does it realky have any kind of skill ceiling.
>>333610304
Bullshit. It's exactly THE single player games that are always considered HC and challenging.
>>333610618
complex controls =/= complex game
>>333610430
American, hardcore.
That photo's from like 2008. It was considered a good battlestation for the time.
>>333610710
>google gives me pics like this
Wew.imcia.lad
I'm pretty sure she is russian
Look at her face
90% Slav
>>333610125
>posting the photoshoped version
>>333610916
Its an example of controls to compare a casual game from a hardcore game in gameplay mechanics.
You can use the same method for other mechanics or features, but harcore games are mostly complex control games because... vidya you know.
>>333610304
Dark souls series
HIGH
DEF
>>333611072
>>333610125
Slope a TN panel.
kek
>>333610125
evever since normies sarted playing vidya the word hardcore and csual haeve been tainted thats why people think darksouls is a hardcore game, the one thing they both have in common tho is that they arn,t mobile games , since mobile games arnt vidya
Hardcore
![bonk[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/DFba5SE.gif "bonk[1].gif")
>>333611170
>having a trackball mouse
>having two trackball mouses
>>333610125
the input lag on that must be insane. fucking pc cucks are so fucking stupid its not even funny.
>>333610125
Steel Battalion. Id say its pretty hardcore.
>die all the time
>enemies are all equal to you
>if you die, you fucking die.
>>333610125
>Skyrim is hardcore
You have to be 18+ to post here.
>>333611887
AHAHAHAHA
You have to read 500 pages to play this
>>333611305
Make a swordsman in age of empires
>Grab some weat or kill an animal untill food is 80
>Go to barracks and select unit
>Wait, and unit goes out
Make the same in pic related
>train a recruit in the university
>start to breed porks
>send ingots of iron to the blacksmith to make a sword and an helm, a villager goes to the storage and carry them to the blacksmith
>when porks are grown, kill them and take the skin to make leather armor
>send the recruit to the barracs and set it to be a swordsman
>villagers take the leather armor, the helm and the sword to the barracs too, and then the swordsman came out
>from time to time he will need to eat, like anyone else, so you will have to send it to the inn to eat and drink some wine.
This is how you split casual from hardcore.
>>333610304
>he's never played Devil May Cry 3
>on original, US difficulty
>>333612142
Fucking missed the pic
>>333611170
>>333611534
my issue is the disproportionate offset big ass screen and how she seems to be playing with the directional keys
>>333610125
casual: everything with broad mass appeal "start it up and jump right in"
hardcore: everything that a girl would never even dream of touching
Most bigass popular games like skyrim are casual.
>>333610125
If you can hand it to someone and they can instantly be at least decent at the game it's casual.
Similarly, if a girl streams it it's almost certainly casual.
>>333612257
>>333611534
>>333611797
>>333611030
>>333610935
>>333610710
>>333610430
>being this fucking new
This photo's fucking older than the internet, and is posted all the time.
Every time it's posted, whatever board it's posted on flips their collective shit about the arrow-keys thing.
casual games have low depth
hardcore games have high depth
in single player, depth is the game's difficulty. the game has to be difficult to force you to use all the mechanics available.
in multiplayer, depth is how much better the best player is compared to other players. a game with low depth would reach a point where there is no clear best player, and the top of the competition would be trading 50/50 win/loss records against each other.
>>333612452
So by your definition, Tetris would be casual?
I guess it kind of is.
>>333612632
thank you, now i cant unsee it.
>>333612714
Yes, tetris is casual.
It has an absurdly high skill ceiling though, which means that it can be played hardcore if you like.
This is true of most decently designed games.
>casual shit
anyone can pick up, low skill ceiling
mobile games, etc
>2hardcore4u shit
can't instantly git gud, high skill ceiling
>quality games
anyone can pickup, high skill ceiling
idk like chess or something
>>333610125
>Skyrim
>Hardcore
>High skill ceiling
The only high skill ceiling it has is navigating the fucking awful UI. Fucking Oblivion had a stronger melee system, what the fuck is this baiting ?
>Hardcore
The games I play
>Casual shit
The games you play
>>333613201
I recognize i play casual games, but i dont play need for speed or project cars and take it as a sim, thats the blurr in retards mind.
Casual: games released 1995 and after
Hardcore: games released before 1995
You're all casual gamers, kids. Sorry. Blame the game industry that moved to casual shit gaming in the mid-90s because they wanted more money and dumber consumers that didn't bitch when a game's gameplay was shit.
>>333610125
That's a big monitor.
>>333612632
when my mom played EQ she did the same thing, trackball and arrow keys
>>333611887
>>333612094
>ywn get to play this game
>>333612902
tetris should only be played casually though. there's just not enough to it for non-autists to enjoy getting to higher than say NES difficulty.
>>333610125
>play dark souls if u want git hardkore like me u casul xD
>>333612142
That just sounds like a slower-paced game.
>>333612142
>you need to train a fucking recruit in the university
>you need several iron ingots for one sword
Damn, AoE's units popping out of thin air is more realistic
>>333613728
It can even become faster than a factory of barracs in age2.
>make 25 of everything
>keep recruits on school to be easy to feed them
>WAR IS UPON US
>send everyone to the barracs
>spawn 25 units of everything in less than 2 seconds
>you can put more barracs to augment it.
Battles it self are slower because of the game speed, but age at regular speed is a little faster than it.
>>333612632
I still use arrow keys for old games.
>>333614554
Irrelevant, nobody cares, you're not a snowflake and you contributed nothing.
Good job, you fucking mongol.
>>333610304
Viewtiful Joe says hello
>>333614129My wizzards and monks were able to find this scroll, it was ment to be the charriot of god, and we talked with our villagers who can create buildings out of nothing, they were able to craft it, using the scrolls as a guide to build it, is right there next to the town center, you can seat in it, but it dosent work like a horse, how do you turn this on?
>>333610125
casual games are a meme, there are no casual games, only casual gamers
>b-but muh mobile
if somebody puts in fucking a billion hours into a game, it makes them a hardcore gamer no matter how much /v/'s elitism complex denies it
>>333614554
I care
>>333614692
ur a fag.
>>333615005
>If I eat shit enough, it becomes good
That's not how it works senpai.
>>333611121
>>333612180
>>333614776
>this is what casual trash believes
It makes me fucking furious that you browse the same board as me.
>>333615487
Hardcore =/= good
>>333610125
>Skyrim
>High skill ceiling
Pick one.
I define it by how invested you are in it. An example would be my roommate, he plays strictly CoD so he's a casual however he also streams his gameplay, sets up clans, a practices to master the (albeit shallow) gameplay of CoD. The fact he sinks so much time and money into makes me think he slightly above a casual but not really hardcore.
>>333610125
>Because apparently Skyrim is "casual" where I thought it was hardcore and had a high skill ceiling
>skyrim
>skill
>a game where every enemy can be dealt with by running up against it and hammering "attack" while either holding the Heal button or chugging health potions
>>333615606
First off only cancerous retards even fucking call themselves "games". Second of all, how much time you put into a game doesn't make it hardcore. A fucking retard can put thousands of hours into Pong because he's retarded, but that doesn't make Pong anymore then the casual game it is. Same thing for applying a retarded term to yourself because you waste your life staring at pixels. Just because I can program and spend a lot of time doing it, doesn't make me a programmer for example. I'm simply one who enjoys programming.
>>333616419
pongs pretty hardcore family
>>333616419
By that definition only e-celebs and other trash that make their money through gaming should be called gamers. Don't get so hung up over some stupid labels
>>333617378
>By that definition only e-celebs and other trash that make their money through gaming should be called gamers.
I said the exact opposite senpai.
>>333615580
It amuses me that anonymous comments on the internet are having such a profound effect on you.
This is what a "hardcore" gamer looks like.
>>333610125
People who call themselves or the games thy like to play hardcore are hilarious.
They're toys. If you were hardcore you'd be jumping out of helicopters in a special forces team not playing with toys and posting on pedo boards.
>>333613315
Try actually being from the 90's. There were easy games back then retard. I fondly remember spending hours on a Timon and Pumba game as a kid.
>>333618314
its a well know fact that "90s kid" now means "born in 1998"
>>333614554
Old games still used ASWD. You're dumbing it down for no reason.
That makes you a casual you fucking bellend
Is DOOM casual or hardcore?
>>333616419
I'm fucking ashamed that I play video games. Only a select few friends really know how much I game.
>cursor keys
>trackball
Krokodil must be one hell of a drug.
>>333618869
Who's that titty cow?
>>333618972
Quake is more hardcore because of rocketjump, but doom is casual now, back then when 3d realm shooters were in, it was harcore as fuck because of the aim system.
>>333619261
google gave me
[Neromashin] Houjou no Reizoku Elf [japanese] - Hentai Free
>>333610618
what the fuck are you even talking about you fucking moron
>>333610304
NPCs can have superhuman reaction times and superior stats, human players will always be just human.
>>333619423
What is hardcore to you?
A deep story?
A clusterfuck tech tree?
Here's how I see it:
If you occasionally play video games for fun, even if you have 2000+ hours total on assfaggots and are pretty good, if it's the only game you really play and don't care too much about video games in general then you are a casual.
If you waste your life with video games, if you care, even if you suck at them really bad and it took you 20 hours to complete MGS1 you are not a casual.
>>333610125
Casual games and hardcore games have boundary issues and a lot of overlap. Casual gamers and hardcore games are more based in how much dedication they are willing to put in. Some examples to follow.
Tetris is a casual game. It is meant to be picked up and played whenever. You don't need determination to beat as there is no ending. It can also be played hardcore bexause the higher levels require dedications into learning mechanics and reflex skills.
Call of duty is casual. You are expected to pick it up and brute force single player. There is no skill gate. Playing the hardest difficulty is semi hardcore, because while the skill level required to do so is not that high in the scheme of things, it requires determination to continue do so.
Multiplayer is both casual and hardcore.
Mario kart is casual. While there is some skill that can be picked up, the skill ceiling is very low. In addition the game has several mechanics meant to keep the skill gap between the best and worst less glaring.
The souls series is hardcore. It has a higher skill floor and requires determination to continue. There is no casual aspect.
>>333610926
Using a TV as a monitor was never hardcore.
>>333612668
>in single player, depth is the game difficulty
No.
>>333619623
A game that requires you to actually think (actual puzzles none of that modern "turn the light switch" """puzzle""" modern games like to shove into themselves), requires coordination, has choices and consequences for those actions, takes more then a day or two to play, and not simplified shit the retarded masses can laugh and clap their hands to because it amuses them.
>>333619818
>using a 20"+ TV instead of a small 14"or 17" monitor is casual tier shit.
It was amazing when i could do this, it was simple, BIGGER SCREEN.
>>333619850
Uh, yes. Tkink about it Anon. The more shit you have to learn and adapt to, the greater the depth. If there's high complexity, but the game is so easy that it doesn't take anywhere near mastery, then the game is shallow in spite of its complex mechanics. Depth is the sum total of the player's adaptation.
>>333611534
>mouses
>>333620104
Though look at the girl, that's one of those TVs that reduce view quality depending on the angle, and the screen isn't even adjusted to face her. Not to mention such a huge screen from such a small distance makes things more difficult.
>>333610304
A machine will always beat a player if made well (or poorly, depending how you look at it)
>>333610125
Casu-core or Hard-Casual is too real.
Watch out for these deceptive twats, how to spot the casu-core/hard-casual..
>Writes and reads about games more than they play games.
>has a massive "backlog"
>plays the latest ubishit.
>Will drop did u know gamin trivia on you for games they've never played.
>falls for FOMO-hype.
>hates "PVP"
>taste is shaped by critical acclaim.
>>333620058
>A game that requires you to actually know what you are doing.
Another example.
>play need for speed and need to improve the engine.
>navigate through menus and put engine, gearbox and turbo all the way up
>done
>play street legal and need to improve the engine
>need to know about engines because if not you are fucked
>even if you buy a better engine, you also have to build it part by part.
Here is a pic as an example, this is an arcade racing game with harcore physics and engine mechanics.
>>333610618
I think you upset some gaymers when you told them the truth about CS lol
It's what you go in expecting, if you're playing the game without dedication then youi're playing it casually, if you're devoted to the game then you're playing it hardcore, different games serve these needs, so fallout shelter would be a casual game (because it's designed for casual play) and fallout 4 would be the more hardcore game (because it's designed around long term investment)
>>333620496
yes, its called TN panel, newer ones are called IPS and can be seen from every angle.
Maybe for RTS could be a good idea, i used my TV on need for speed underground 1 because my ati9200se had a supervideo connector.
>>333620752
Oh, right, I've seen Ass Creed being called hardcore more than once.
>>333620192
>The more shit you have to learn and adapt to, the greater the depth.
That's not difficulty though, I wanna be the guy is difficult but it's surely not deep.
>>333620192
Are Grand Strategy games casual? Because they're piss easy once you know what to do.
>>333620831
Let them come at me.
Not even arma has as many details as this game, wich is like 15 years old.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o52V6JsjrJc
This marked the universal standard for me for shooters
>can use the regular aim system with a scoped rifle
Ive never saw this in another vieogame ever.
>>333620993
It's not really that difficult because of the checkpoints, same as how you can murder any arcade game's depth by using savestates.
>>333621102
The depth of a single player strategy game is how much effort you have to put in to figure out a winning strategy. I've never played a cartography simulator myself so I can't say how difficult they are to learn.
>>333621102
New ones are much more casualized.
>>333610618
the meta is more important than an obtuse control scheme.
u might be casual, sorry.
>>333620104
Sure bigger but I bet the TV you were using has tons of lag and I bet the colors were all fucked up because only recently did AMD and nvidia get color right via HDMI.
>>333620943
If it's 1080P you will get the same amount of stuff on screen between a 20inch and a 75inch tv. If anything the smaller screen will be better since you can see the entire screen without moving your head.
>>333611121
Trust me i like dark souls but fuck no. Try DCS
>>333619818
There's nothing wrong with using a TV as a monitor. I've tried to replace my 32" 1080p TV to a 1440p monitor and mine have less ghosting and lag. But you can't just buy any tv, you have to do your research.
>>333616049
You can reduce any game to that half assed bullshit explanation.
Also if you're having to chug potions constantly then you're objectively terrible at the game.
>>333613645
NES Tetris is pretty bad though. Can't multiplayer and can't move the blocks fast enough to play properly on the upper part.
>>333621509
What is the skill ceiling of Skyrim? Please, enlighten me. I genuinely want to know.
>>333621102
Everything is piss easy when you know what to do.
Still even if you are good at one or 2 games.
What if i take from the old deposit, a pentium 1 233mhz, and give you the game "crysis in the kremlin".
It will take you time to get use to it.
But also depends of how complex are its mechanics.
When i saw this for the first time, it came in 3 1/2 floppy disks, and when i understanded how clusterfuck it was, i thought "who plays this, its fucking complicated" and then mom said, people like to simulate politics and story, there is also a game where you can play world war 2, Klaws has it (the guy of the game store) and he won with the germans, i was like HOLY SHIT.
Now i seet as boring navigate menus to win when you have an historic background.
>>333612323
/thread
>>333610125
Skyrim was casualized as fuck. Where the hell have you been? The combat was made worse, they simplified the armor you can equip to a lesser amount of slots and the skills were dumbed down.
Op, are you retarded?
>>333621352
I think its because of shits like you that those context sensitive controls exist.
Think again who is the casual who dont care.
>>333621416
>There's nothing wrong with using a TV as a monitor
Within the past few years or so? Yeah but even know some TVs don't play nice with PC inputs because the way video cards handle HDMI color spaces. A few years ago? Tons of fucking issues. The topic on hand was about a girl using a TV as a monitor in 08 and unless it was a top of the line Sony it was a huge trade off in ghosting/input lag
>>333610125
The electricity bill for that "monitor" would give me an aneurysm.
>>333611245
my x201 screen just broke. Should I buy a new screen? I just use it for casual browsing and porn really. Pls respond.
Both useless labels that serve no purpose other than bragging online most of the time. The whole "casual/hardcore gamer" as defined by the amount of time they play a week at least makes sense as a concept/demographic, and also the idea of a "casual" genre, as in games with very simple mechanics usually made for quick games that can be played anytime.
Trying to divide every game into casual/hardcore is a big waste of time and there isn't any point to doing it. You can do that in any way you want, and also you will just have one opinion among many that is hardly unanimously accepted outside your circle.
>>333621416
This, I have both a TV and monitor I use for my pc. I like using my TV for grand strategy games, having a big screen is always nice.
>>333613201
>>333612323
Why did the thread keep going after these posts?
>>333621592
you clearly just don't understand the highly in-depth mechanics present in higher difficulties
>>333621838
care to elaborate what broke means?
>ded pixels or lines of ded pixels
>broken scructure of the screen
>glitches and screen tear when i move it
Could be lot of things, also /tpg/ on /g/
>>333610125
What defines a hardcore game is what kind of people the developer of it target with it.
Arcade games for example specifically target people who really want to improve in a game, to be able to reach a good score or at least a 1cc. That's why they are hardcore games, because they target people who play for skillfull gameplay.
Skyrim does NOT target people who play for gameplay which requires skills.
>>333610304
Wrong. Playing chess against real people is easy, whilst playing against the computers is shit difficult.
>>333621980
yeah because the whole "take double damage and deal no damage" thing is so much fun. people really think that's fun? you're not consciously aware the whole time that you're only adding multipliers to make fights last 3x as long and require 3x as much healing and shit?
>>333621730
This is a joke argument.
Context sensitivity has nothing to do with mechanics. It's solving for interaction that's it. Will you go to bat for motion controls? they really fuck up how you interact with a game.. why not play with your feet? hands are too casual.
You navigate UI with context, we don't use the function keys anymore. Who cares? Why would i butt frustrate a player with obtuse controls, that's bad design and games are almost entirely DESIGNed experiences.
By your logic steel battalion and QWOP should be the most hardcore amazing games of all time.
>giant fucking screen ruining your focus and create natural delay in moving your eyes from side to side
>hardcore
>>333610304
What about Aurora?
>>333621775
Before my 1080p tv I've used an old 2008 32" 720p (1366x768) IPS TV which is shit today but it was able to do 4:4:4 on vga. Still better than that old 17" crt I had. Now you can buy these 40" 4k that use hdmi 2.0 but they do have some lags.
>>333622126
This. Multiplayer games are for the vast majority of time casual as fuck, except you really only play high level opponents, which is only very rarely the case for people.
>>333622189
>girl gaymer
>hardcore
>>333612142
>>333612239
Try making an archer in Stronghold Crusaders, faggot.
>>333620192
>flappy bird is a hardcore game
No.
>>333621995
fell off the bed and like a sixth of the screen on the right side is all fucked up showing black and crazy colors.
I think I'm just gonna get a cheap tablet. I got a gaming pc.
>>333622179
>Context sensitivity has nothing to do with mechanics
In games like splinter cell or metal gear its the difference of keep going or fucking it up.
QWOP is complex in its mechanics, but fucking casual tier because you cant control the chest inertia and you have limited control over the legs.
that other mountain climbing game that uses the keypad to grab the ledges is pretty fucking hardcore in that regard.
>>333613451
i feel bad when i dont see 4u replies, so here
>>333622287
What was the input lag? Bet it was a billion MS. VGA is fine since graphic cards handle it right. When it was total shit was the late 00s and early 20teens where it was HDMI and nothing handled it right.
I'd bet that IPS TV you used had ghosting up the ass as well. IPS only recently has started to get that right.
>>333622606
>just because its cute and simple means it can't be hardcore
No
>>333622564
>buy bow
>recruit archer
ez
![DSC_0159[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/i8UXpu5.jpg "DSC_0159[1].jpg")
>>333622612
This 220 has a broken screen, look at the back of it if the rear part is ok.
Also look at the lower part where the lenovo logo and the x201 stickers are, look if there is any square little dots, ill post pics of it too, if not you can peel it off the front of the plastic cover.
>>333622702
>Requires no thinking or anything else
>All you do is aiming a bird
>Literally just shooting birds at things
Yes. It's about as casual as you can get.
Hardcore games take effort to enjoy.
Casual games don't.
>>333623072
I have never played Flappy Bird, and wouldn't really call it a hardcore game, due to the audience it targets, but I would not say it wouldn't require thinking. You have to think constantly in this game from what I've seen, because you constantly have to maneuver the bird through tight spaces. Your brain has to be quite awake to do this.
When you maneuver a car through a tight space you also have to think and constantly watch out that you don't hit something.
![DSC_0161[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Nlmn7FG.jpg "DSC_0161[1].jpg")
>>333623058
>>333622612
This is the little dot i was talking about.
if you dont have this, you can peel off the front and see if there is any damage, if not just replace the panel, takes like 5 minutes.
I dont have x201 here to see, they are considered "end of life"
>>333623514
That's low level thinking. Hardcore games require higher level thinking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher-order_thinking
>>333623736
I have your fingerprint now. I'm gonna report you to the policia
>>333625038
>implying the shihole i live has my fingerprints done right.
Ever single time i had to do fingerprint shit, i used to fuck up my fingers very bad, with a shave and also with a needle, the resutls are "is that your finger?"
I-it was...
>>333623072
You're thinking of Angry Birds
>>333622624
Metal gear has its own logic in regards to what a stealth/military simulation should be. By design it's suppose to be obtuse. Other games may borrow stealth elements from MGS and 'dumb them down' but they’re not trying to be MGS.
Tank controls is survival horror OK. Fighting games six button layout fine. But it sounds like you're just arguing for "bad controls" because you think sticky cover is casual.
Obtuse controls CAN be hardcore but it's not the end all. The meta and skill ceiling are more important.
Consider that NO ONE fucking plays UT infiltration. The out-of-game-meta, the fact that no skilled players play this means the game inherently will have a low skill player base OR no player base.
Even if CS is a more "casual" game, more skilled players play it, CS wins. meta >
>>333610304
I agree with this guy to some extent. But it depends on the multiplayer game, really. FPS games like CoD games where you go running around the map and shoot someone else running ahead in the back and kill him just to get shot in the back yourself moments later and die and rinse and repeat. That might require some degree of skill but the process is so dull and samey that it's fucking shit anyway. The same applies to CS and battlefield, etc. It's just a burst of excitement of the moment when you manage to kill someone in a fps or win in a fighting game after practicing for 200 hours in training mode. It's "hardcore" but boring and repetitive, at least for me.
>>333623812
>Hardcore games require higher level thinking
No, hardcore games just require skills in general. No matter if you have to think a lot, while playing chess, or if you have to have very good hand-eye coordination skills and reflexes.
Playing tennis also doesn't take as much thinking as playing chess, but being really good at it is still just as hardcore as being good at chess.
>>333610125
what is she playing? It looks like half life 2, but it has that weird stats thing on the right, is it some hl2 plugin?
/v/ is just filled with shitplayers who never got really good at anything. It's the least place I'd ask a question like this.
Fighting games are the only 'hardcore' genre. Everything else is mechanically and mentally easier. RTSs come in second, but nowhere near the level of complexity and difficulty as high level fighting game play because you can still blame AI and environment for your mistakes. In fighting games, you are the entire reason why you fail or succeed. Fighting games separate the men and women from the little boys and girls.
There's a reason why so few people are physically and mentally capable of playing fighting games. There is a reason why those playerbases are so tiny. Only the perfectionist elite succeed in fighting games.And no, Smash Bros. is not a fighting game, it's a party game for casual players to make them feel like they're good at fighting games. Don't fall for Nintendo's meme. Anyone can get good at Smash without even trying.
>>333625408
I looked, and it's only marginally less casual then Angry Brids.
>>333616419
>>333625976
>Fighting games are the only 'hardcore' genre
I love fighting games, but multiplayer games are generally casual as fuck, because 95% of opponents suck even more than the AI.
>>333610125
Hahahaha is this bait? If it isn't, fuck off normie.
>>333625516
No matter how skilled is the player, its still playing a casual RNG game, wich takes his skills out of use.
But still i understand your point, making something casual or hardcore its more about the limits of the game (that skill celling) and the player mindset to reach that celling.
Point taken.
>>333626130
That's the players' fault, not the game. The mechanics are structurally sound, it's up to people to get good at them. Anyone can memorize AI exploits and beat single player.
>>333626434
>That's the players' fault, not the game.
Yes, but the players decide how difficult the game is in the end. So if the players suck, the game is easy.
>Anyone can memorize AI exploits and beat single player.
Have you ever even beaten a difficult single player game? I bet not. You have no idea what you are talking about.
>>333610125
hardcore:
>games not everybody can get into
casual:
>games that a majority of people can get into; games produced and marketed for the masses
>>333618605
>ASWD
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>333627219
>games not everybody can get into
A lot of people also can't get into shit "games" like Yandere Simulator or whatever, doesn't mean it's hardcore though.
>>333625976
You give fighting game players way too much credit. Most people that play online are shitters that smash buttons or learned one or two combos and rage quit before losing and then send hate messages like the autistic children they are. And the people that play "professionally" are mostly niggers and gooks with too much free time, in which case "perfectionist elite" means autistic fuck that refuse to get a job.
>>333627954
What if im the adobe reader guy and play videogames in the data center?
>>333627869
It does actually. Being "hardcore" means playing games that most people who only play the latest ubishit won't even touch. I'm talking shit like Wizardry, Mount&Blade, Armored Core and Guwange.
Yandere SImulator doesn't count in this case due to all the underage pewds fans sticking to it like flies on shit, as they don't actually thing for themselves and would play anything pewdiepie makes a video about.
>>333628183
>what /v/ thinks
>games I like are hardcore, games I dislike are casual
>what the reality looks like:
>games which are targeted at people who like skillfull gameplay are hardcore which really takes effort to get good at, unskillfull gameplay is casual
>>333627954
>And the people that play "professionally" are mostly niggers and gooks with too much free time,
FGC need a strong local population density to thrive, Urban areas = bigger local FGC.
>>333628349
Using your logic anything which is popular is casual, and anything which is unknown is hardcore.
So basically you think hardcore players are just hipsters. That's not true. Hardcore players are people who play games on a level which makes you think "holy shit", because they play with skills. And games like M&B are not generally targeted at such people.
>>333628375
>what /v/ thinks
>games I like are hardcore, games I dislike are casual
Except it's been define several times by anons in this very thread. See >>333620058
for an example.
>>333629134
Posts like these are sadly the exception here though.
>>333628790
>Hardcore players are people who play games on a level which makes you think "holy shit", because they play with skills.
Only true if by "skills" you don't mean only mechanical skill. A dude that can reliably pull of some tricky railgun shot in Quake is hardcore, yeah, but so is that guy who did the parallel universe thing in SM64. That takes some skill, but for the most part it's game knowledge, calculation and being devoted to the game; everything /v/ deems autistic, like speedruns.
>>333610125
Let me help you out OP
If it's a game I like, it's hardcore.
If it's a shitty game (whatever games you like), it's casual.
>>333630418
What exactly do you mean by mechanical skill? To me, a hardcore player can play a lot of games. Speedrunners are hardcore players mostly, people who are really good at multiplayer games are hardcore players, people who get crazy scores in arcade games are hardcore players, etc
>>333630717
Something you just... do, without thinking about it. Moving your arm is mechanical as is turning your head to see something behind you. In this case that would be shooting a gun on reflex, or playing a game so much you basically sleepwalk through it.
>>333631686
If you do any thing a lot it basically becomes mechanical. An artist also almost mechanically draws good paintings when he has enough talent for it and studied it a lot. It's called muscle memory I guess, where you don't really think anymore, but are just "in the zone" and just do it. That's what happens with anyone who is good at anything.
>>333610125
It's just a meme. People play games to have fun, getting good at them comes later no matter how hard or "complex" (as ridiculous as it may be to call a video game complex) the game is. And if the game is considered "good" by /v/ its hardcore. If the game is popular and played by normies like skyrim it's casual.
>>333632120
Spot the casual.
>>333632367
Depends on your definition of casual and hardcore. Under my definition I wouldn't consider myself a casual but under >>333628790 definition I don't play at an "impressive" level so I guess i would be a casual. At this point i don't give a crap.
>>333633004
I don't think you have to be a casual if not being a hardcore gamer. You also can be somewhere in between.
>>333633117
I guess.
>>333631989
Yeah that's right, muscle memory. In RTS you use muscle memory for base building and actual strategy for micromanaging and predicting the enemy, so it uses a bit of both.
>>333633609
Chosing the right strategy also becomes muscle memory. In the end you can call everything muscle memory if you did it a lot. Some games just give you more time to think and adapt, while in others you have to adapt within often miliseconds.
>>333626841
I've beaten Halo Reach and Halo 3 with all Skulls activated on Legendary difficulty (it's called 'LASO'). It's as hard as it gets because if you die once you gotta restart the entire level, no checkpoints. Enemies are tanky AND smarter AND deadlier, and you can't just recharge your shields, and you get barely any ammo.
Not sure how much harder other games get, unless you're talking about games with artificial difficulty, like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles on NES or I wanna be the guy Gaiden. At that point, it's just spam/tedious/level memorization, that's not really difficulty. That's just how much BS a game can get away with throwing at you.
>>333634230
Predicting the enemy is almost never done by muscle memory. Only in certain cases where you actually practiced against an opponent with a similar strategy, otherwise you need to think logically and adapt to the enemy, at least in a high level of play.
>>333610125
>do we define casual games and hardcore games?
Of course
>Is there a checklist that you can reference?
Do you play it on your phone or with other people?
Does it have constant autosaves?
Does it even allow you to die?
Pretty simple stuff
>>333634424
>It's as hard as it gets because if you die once you gotta restart the entire level, no checkpoints.
Oh wow, you gotta restart a whole level?! Holy shit, how hardcore!
But nah, that's not really what I think about when thinking of hardcore games. Hardcore single player games make you restart the whole game if you die too much.
99% of shmups are hardcore games. Arcade games in general are hardcore games. Try playing through Battle Gareggafor example then you can see what it means to play a hardcore game.
>>333634790
In fighting games you also have to predict the enemy. And if you practiced these games a lot, then it also becomes muscle memory to know what kind of move you make best against this or this situation. At a certain time, you just notice stuff like "ok my opponent likes to parry a lot, so will try to throw him more", etc. The same goes for every other multiplayer game.
>>333610125
A hardcore game is a game that either is challenging or requires time to learn how to control and play well.
A Casual game is a game that anyone can pick up and play without struggling.
Casuals make up for most of the market because most so called "Adults" and younger people do not have the patience and will to pick up something new and learn it, which is ironic considering how most said "adults" love to complain about how younger generations are lazy and doesn't want to do anything.
It's a big, fucking cycle and keeps repeating. I'm already thirty fucking years old and yet it's rare to see others of my age that are willing to actually learn how to play challenging games and I cannot even understand why.
A game doesn't have to be challenging to be fun, but a lot of fucking games are fun because they are challenging, because it feels damn good to overcome a challenge trough dedication.
But I suppose some of it can be explained to all humans being lazy in one way or another, myself included.
>>333627954
>And the people that play "professionally" are mostly niggers and gooks with too much free time, in which case "perfectionist elite" means autistic fuck that refuse to get a job.
plenty of high level players have careers/families.
also netplayer warriors and stream monsters =! fighting game players.
>>333613542
actually just ordered it for my og xbox. controller and both games.
>>333635431
i've noticed another habit people have is that even if you dedicate yourself to overcoming a challenging obstacle, you become rooted in your methods.
for instance once i've gotten really good with a character or strategy, even though there's much more to learn in the rest of the game, starting fresh and learning the game from a different angle by playing a new character is an agonizing process and 90% of the time i'll just avoid it to keep polishing my skill with the character that i'm already good at.
>>333610304
under 18s pls go
>>333635365
I wasn't talking about "opponent's gonna spam frost wyrms, so I'll pump out a few dryads as they are magic immune", I was talking about predicting the opponent's movements and expansions. If he's got a gold mine near his starting position, he's obviously going to expand there, unless he predicted me predicting his expansion and expands somewhere else etc.
In any case my post doesn't apply to fighting games at all as I agree with your post.
Also I would like to make a point here and say that there are no actual "casual" and "hardcore" games, only players. Someone might fire up a casual game like Ass Creed and proceed to do a no damage run without breaking a sweat, whick would make him pretty "hardcore" in my opinion.
>>333636754
>I was talking about predicting the opponent's movements and expansions.
But that's exactly also what I talked about... It's about playing mind games, which happens in fighting games all the time. And if you play these games a lot then you become naturally better at these mind games because you know better what your opponent does next and what moves you make best against it. It's all just muscle memory.
>there are no actual "casual" and "hardcore" games, only players
Of course there are hardcore games. Hardcore games are games which specificially target hardcore players. Skyrim is not a hardcore game, because it specifically targets casual players. Does not mean that some Skyrim can't do impressive speedruns though.
>>333637340
>Of course there are hardcore games. Hardcore games are games which specificially target hardcore players. Skyrim is not a hardcore game, because it specifically targets casual players. Does not mean that some Skyrim can't do impressive speedruns though.
That was my first point.
The original definition of a "casual gamer" was just someone who plays shit like Bejeweled and Peggle. It sprang up around the time the Wii was breaking sale records and shit like Wii Fit and Wii Party were the top selling games of all time. By this original logic, the "casual gamers" of 2016 are those who play almost nothing but mobile shit.
There was some paranoia about AAA stop being made in favor of an endless stream of Angry Birds-tier shit, but that obviously didn't happen. But 4chan, being 4chan, gradually expanded the term to "anyone who plays simplistic games" to "anything who plays easy games" to "anyone who plays games I don't like".
PROTIP: if your mom can't play it, it wasn't "casualized".
>>333610125
>Because apparently Skyrim is "casual" where I thought it was hardcore and had a high skill ceiling
Any game rated M for mature
>>333610125
>Skyrim
>High skill ceiling
Holy shit, this has to be bait.
>>333637516
No, it wasn't. You said there are no hardcore games, only players. I say there are hardcore games, if they target hardcore players. That's a difference.
>>333620831
I love how the people who shit on CS universally are bad at it and just ass blasted.
>>333638756
That's something totally different what you said there but whatever....
you can play a hardcore game casually and a casual game hardcore
>>333626434
Play some arcade shmups and try to get a 2-ALL, you'll get your asshole torn apart and will come crawling back to your comfort zone where you can beat shitters all day without getting your feelings hurt.
>>333639314
was meant for this
>>333634424
