Hey guys, do you think that the Catarina armor would actually work in medieval times? Like would it have any advantages over other types of full plate? I'm not sure if the fatty looking rolls would help you or hinder you.
I would guess there is a reason why armor like this wasn't really used (to my knowledge) but what is that reason aside from "it looks like an onion/fat"?
>>332256992
I'm pretty sure the design is made to counter blades, as in slash/standard attacks, when slashing this armor, the blades would just slide off, and the best approach against it would be using a blunt weapon or half swording a regular straight sword.
No because any amount of increased protection wouldn't be worth the huge weight increase and lack of mobility it might have
Also the sections where the armor folds in on itself at the stomach and near the upper chest would help an opponent in landing a direct hit with something like a mace or warhammer - same reason why boob plates are stupid
>>332257494
>I'm pretty sure the design is made to counter blades, as in slash/standard attacks, when slashing this armor, the blades would just slide off
The same is true with actual armor
>>332256992
Pretty sure it would suck, literally
If you tried to stab someone wearing it, half the time your weapon would slide away to the user's sides, but half the time it would slide into one of those fat layer indents
At that point it's easy to put a large amount of force into thrusting your weapon forward, since it's been caught in the fold of the armor instead of deflected away.
Source: my anus
>>332256992
he looks like he has a zaku red eye there
>>332257818
your anus is pretty reliable then
>>332256992
>do you think that the Catarina armor would actually work in medieval times?
It's heavy as hell, so, no.
If the guy wearing it doesn't tire from all the weight he's carrying, he'll be too slow to do anything.
Not to mention the poor field of vision that helmet would allow.
>>332257818
well, it is hard to disagree with your anus' evidence. It is an expert of things sliding into it, after all.
My thanks, anon. The folds being a weakness is a good point.
>>332258565
that field of vision would save your eyes tho, armor with uncovered faces are retarded as fuck, this gives you max def and protection that other pathetic armors can´t even imagine to provide
>>332258780
Often times men in heavy armor would remove their helmet or (if it had one) would lift the visor on it because field of vision is sometimes far more important in a fight than a bit more armor
The main issue would be bulkiness. Assuming you made it properly, it wouldn't be any heavier than normal plate armor, and the "fat rolls" deflecting swords inward wouldn't be much of an issue either, since swords can't really pierce plate armor anyway. The bits sticking out would get in your way all the time when swinging a weapon around, though. You'd end up banging your elbows on your breastplate every other swing.
>>332259014
but why does it matter, if your armor couldn´t get pierced, why would sight be an important factor at all, you could just sit down while you deflect all the attacks, or even better, charge against your enemy with pure brute force like the rhino, the true human ancestor
>>332259204
Because no armor is completely safe from everything. A dagger or sword point can slip into your visor, a good smash with a hammer or mace will put you out of the fight because it's fucking painful even if it isn't permanently damaging
And sometimes you need to be able to see that there's a knight with a poleaxe about to smash your head in just off to the side, or that man at arms who just drew a dagger and is about to slide it into your visor
With great helmets like in this, it wasn't their only head protection - mail and gambeson would be worn under it and would still provide protection. The helmet would be discarded and retrieved later, or would hang on your person ready to be put on again
With raising a visor, it's still a lot of head protection, you can just see better, and at any moment you can lower it again.
This is just a screenshot from mount and blade, but it's a good example still
>>332259681
the one guy in the back has the ideal face protection tho, the two guys in a duel could easily have their noses chhopped off, but i agree that aside from that weak spot it´s really protective skull wise
>>332259204
you lads really don't understand how brutal combat back then really was.
Guys in full plate arent just going to retardedly swing their swords at someone else in full plate. The battle essentially turns into a wrestling match before slowly shoving your sword into them through the joints in their armor, wrestle away their weapon, remove their helmet or anything possible to kill their foe and gain an advtanage.
That bulky dipshit armor just means you lose balance that much faster, are far less flexable and are going to be exhausted much quicker while being able to defend yourself a lot less from its horrible design.
>>332256992
regular plate armor already did fine countering slash attacks, so no
>>332259204
No armor is going to be able to deflect all attacks. If you're not able to see well enough to actively defend yourself, somebody's going to jump you with a dagger and stab you in the armpit, or groin, or another joint you can't armor effectively.
Better face protection, or lack thereof, is sometimes better to have and sometimes an hindrance. It's all very situational.
>>332259881
Yes and that was a risk people took, but it was not always the best choice to have no vision
If more armor was always the better option - frogmouth helmets would have been used for more than just jousting in tournaments
>>332259929
but you just hilighted a flaw, why have joint spaces at all? add three layers of chainmail between the joints and voila, you have an ideal berserker loadout, movement will be slower and will tear some of your skin but will grant you victory
>>332260173
why have joint spaces at all?
Because you want to be able to move
>add three layers of chainmail between the joints
Now your asking to die of heatstroke
>>332259681
those guys in your pic are just wearing padding and chainmail correct? I don't see any plate unless they have a breastplate beneath their tabard. Not hating on chain or anything, it's pretty sweet too for what it is.
For their helmets, those would be pretty good at protecting you but still giving you a good field of vision. My only concern there is that chain mail won't stop the force of a blow from penetrating. A sword hitting your shoulder or neck would still hurt like a motherfucker even if it doesn't penetrate. Plate probably improved on that a lot I am guessing though it didn't come along until later (or was it always around and just too expensive?)
>>332256992
Armor back in medieval times were largely for decoration and strength training. Those who actually wore it into battle did so because they had no time to take it off beforehand.
>>332256992
The fat layers will slide your weapon into a point in the armour, instead of actually sliding off.
It's so heavy and cumbersome it wouldn't work. A soldier needs to be nimble and able to move.
The helmet is extremely fucking big. It'd be incredibly heavy to actually wear that for a little while.
It has so much unnecessary metal it wouldn't even be economically efficent. I'd laugh at anyone wearing that.
>>332260475
this nigga gets it
>all those fags who think battles were won in hand to hand combat, not with archery
>>332260475
3/10 made me reply
>>332260173
Again, stamina is a serious part of combat. If you weigh so much that you get too tierd or slow to defend yourself from a guy pulling your armor off, your just as good as dead.
A guy with a normal getup is just as protected from 3 layer mc dumbdick, and his movement and grabs stay just as powerful 2 minutes into the brawl unlike the exhausted numbnuts who can barely hold his weapon.
>>332260715
yeah nigga because dying faster is better
>>332260583
>Thinking a superior level of faith in the Lord isn't the reason battles are won
>>332260583
Different strategies for different folks. I assume you're one of the retards who think battles were always fought the same way; archery while some guys held a frontline. You have to be fucking stupid to think only one strategy was deployed all the time that was the English longbowmen one.
Don't take Lindy's word on everything, fucking christ.
>>332260779
i wish there was some kind of simulation of that, would be hilarious
>>332260292
Hard to tell because of the style for it.
Probably gambeson (lots of layers of linen) under mail, the guy in the back with the greathelm looks like he has brigandine, which is a series of plates sewn into thinner gambeson.
Yes, full plate would be far superior to what they're wearing, but it just wasn't really around at the time. Look at agincourt, the french weren't worried about the arrows actually penetrating the armor, they were worried more about the mass volume of arrows that eventually an archer would get lucky and an arrow would manage to get the perfect angle to slip into their visor while their heads were lowered.
>>332260173
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Qbi-fCvnc
>>332260890
i´d imagine infiltrators could backstab the archers
>>332260890
Also worth noting that for the most part, bows couldn't pierce plate armor. Archery was a vital part of an army, yes, but suggesting it was the only part that mattered is retarded.
>itt: a bunch of neckbeards furiously debate a topic they know almost nothing about
Armour has to be light enough to not tire the wearer down, but be protective enough to actually cover up his important bits. A regular soldier would usually prioritize a good helmet over body armour; padding works very well.
In fantasy we often see huge walking tanks of armour. The problem is having to wear this constantly, keep it clean and not fall apart, and the toil it has on your body. Many people can overestimate their physical strength or the limits of their body from sheer willpower, so it's not like that's enough. Pure strength only gets you so far, because the body has a limit it's biologically not designed to even go to.
>>332261598
Enlighten them then, bearer of knowledge.
>>332260919
people actually get together to do mock battles with this sort of thing, hell, some people go so far as to do mockups of gladitorial battles, both cases using fake or real weapons.
It aint how movies and vidya make it out to be. Not by a long shot.
Combat isnt nearly as dramatic or flashy. 9 times out of 10, a man dies on the ground with another on top of him.
>>332261708
>>332261598
indeed he must be the master of maximus
>>332256992
Good defense against slashing, terrible for piercing
Hey guys, do you thinkdark souls 3 torrent fucking when?
>>332261102
a bigger problem were cavalry charges since bowmen would have had some men at arms to protect them
>>332261912
Sure, I'll put up a torrent if you get me some 4chan Gold.
>>332260919
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S_Q3CGqZmg
You can see some recreations of armored fighting, not many do it because a full suit of plate armor is a huge expense
Why do Sellets look so much cooler than all other helmets?
>>332262008
Sent ;)
>>332256992
T H I C K
>>332262008
I will legitimately send you money on paypal if you do this. How much?
>>332262080
Master race genes
>>332262358
59.99$
>>332261912
2 hours
>>332261145
It was mostly to get the other side to tire down faster and cause a little mayhem, same with most missle weapons pregunpowder
>>332262418
Are you just joking, or serious? That's not much considering I'll be allowing tons of people to play it quite early.
In fact, I won't be able to play it until 1.5 weeks after its release. I do have a few days now, so I would prefer to play it early if possible.
>>332262008
If you had it, a torrent would already be up.
God, how fucking long is it gonna take for a leak?
Remember DDA's leak?
>>332261102
Cavalry. Sure you can kill a few of the knight coming your way or shoot their horse down, but those who would reach you can trample you, and the rider got better armor and weapon than you for close quarter. A dagger or a shortsword wont do shit to good armor.
Cavalry was basically an I WIN button unless the terrain/weather was horrbile for it or the strategist was a complete tard.
>>332262080
Sallets are really sexy. I'm a sucker for bascinets doe, and by extent hounskulls.
>>332262496
Partially that, and partially a way to thin out the less-armored footmen, yeah.
>>332262418
>59.99$
Wait a second... that price...
>>332262358
>>332262528
I'm the real anon and no I don't have the game so I can't put up a torrent, soz mate. You'll have to watch the stream with everyone else for like three more weeks.
>>332262080
Sallet.
>>332262628
>I WIN button
What are pikemen/spearmen etc.
>>332262747
It's pronounced Sal-lay, retard.
>>332262628
>A dagger or a shortsword wont do shit to good armor.
Half-right. A dagger will help you more against heavy armor once you're in close combat than a sword will, owing to being smaller and easier to slip into a crack. This is basically the entire reason half-swording was a thing--it gave you more point control which you'd need to effectively hurt an armored opponent if you didn't have a heavy bludgeoning weapon.
What you really don't want a dagger or arming sword against is long weapons like spears/polearms, which are what the bulk of any army would be using, especially the heavily armored soldiers.
>>332262628
Which is why you used spearmen and pikes. Cavalry was the tank of the time but not unstoppable. If you're defending you can also plant stakes to fend off horse.
I really like earlier medieval arms and armorI wish I had the spare money/space to get a full set of equipment that a templar would have had
>>332260715
>that image
>>332262528
I thought it was already out actually so I was mocking you by giving you the actual price to indicate my disdain.
>>332263179
http://www.kultofathena.com/armor-mail.asp
http://tutorials.abbott.me.uk/high-quality-kit/how-to-make-a-surcote
Surcoat and mail are the two basic things you really need, everything else is just accent.
>>332263416
Are you the anon that is playing it on PC early?
>>332262727
Two more ya non-calendar reading shit.
>>332263404
I know, isn't it awful? I keep it around for when people are being especially retarded.
>>332261708
>>332261786
Oh, I don't know anything about medieval combat logistics either, which is why I'm just watching the mayhem unfold. Please don't mind me.
>>332262980
>>332262865
Well and good, but still not 100% effective vs heavily armoured riders.
I will admit that i did not paint a complete picture
Heavy cavalry + Horse Archer = I win
See Battle of Carrhae
>>332263919
i would never mind the ultimate master of maximus
Do any buyfags own well-made great swords? I am considering training with one, but I'm afraid of how expensive finding a competent blacksmith would be.
>>332262975
Having only a dagger against a man in armor using a sword is not a fight in your favor. Unless he is immobolised (either by being outnumbered or mud) he can and will slash your shit.
>>332264215
obviously this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0S3cjd-emk&list=PLTe3RkKsOrwGyFKsNSM0hMz2LxAkyUXVt&index=32don't fucking buy cold steel products ever
>>332264215
Del tin makes a few great swords http://www.kultofathena.com/deltin.asp
matt easton seems to like his (I believe it's the 16th century Venetian)
>>332263531
>butted mail
>>332264310
Oh, absolutely. But it's no worse than a sword in that case. If you're unarmored against an armored enemy, you're already at a significant disadvantage regardless of weapons.
>>332264106
Cavalry isn't so much an I Win button as an automatic weapon brought to a pistol duel. If your commanders are retarded and don't use cavalry right, they can be very easy to rout. The main utility of them is the absolute devastation that is a heavy cavalry charge, and the ability to chase down fleeing enemies.
So how many different armor/helmet types do we have in Souls series?
>Armet/Closed Helmet for Elite Knight
>Fluted version of that in Demon Souls
>A sort of Barbute in DaS2 as Faraam
>Bucket Heaume Helm for Solaire's set
>Sallet for the Royal Swordsman's Set in DaS2
>Frog Heaume in the Loyce Set
What else? I know I'm missing quite alot of others.
>>332264539
Scroll down
There's riveted mail there too
>>332264106
Oh, so you're on of those that think horse archers really will beat anything. No, horse archers are good, but not invincible.
Good luck having heavy cavalry charge at pikemen or solid stakes in the ground, it'll end poorly really fucking fast.
>>332264215
Kill yourself
>>332264539
Butted is fine if you're not going to do live steel combat or SCA with it.
Besides, they've got riveted there too. Don't get your chainmail bikini in a twist.
>>332264119
I'm actually the Mister of Minimus, sorry.
>>332260715
>why from 17th century, after gunpowder weapons became commonplace, warriors preferred to fight without armor at all?
>playing through DaS and DaSII again before 3 launches
>actually finished Onion-bro's quest in DaS for the first time without knowing spoilers
It's not fair man. All he wanted to do was go on adventures.
>>332264458
Why not?
>>332264531
That's actually not as bad as I imagined. Fuck, might have to do this. Own anything yourself?
>>332262974
Your point being?
>>332264935
cold steel makes garbage
the video is hilarious though, as with all of their videos
>>332264974
What makes their stuff shit?
>>332264458
I was fine with that entire video until the shield, that's not how you would use that fucking shield
>>332264640
Creighton's helmet is a bit like a modified spangenhelm.
>>332264935
>Why not
There has been at least one account of the greatsword's tang snapping and nearly killing a cameraman. Threaded pommels like that on a greatsword have been known to break off, like on the hanwei lowlander.
>Own anything yourself
Not any greatswords, I generally prefer earlier medieval stuff
>>332265287
>I generally prefer earlier medieval stuff
Like what?
>>332265120
quantity>quality really
they make loads of different weapons but they're all sub par quality
they get loads of returns due to issues with the products
there's also a general consensus that if a sword costs under $200, it's not going to be very good
Anyone know who sales the highest quality mail?
Obviously aluminum or butted mail is shit, but most of the riveted mail out there is shit too, made in india and pakistan the shit is made from wire that's too light, holes are made with a punch rather than a drift, rivet holes are either too large or not centred, links are hammered way too thin, Rivets are incorrectly set, often peened too tightly, there isn't enough overlap in the lapped section of the link to create a decent join, rectangular rivet holes or ovals, or just general shit metallurgy.
Does anyone actually produce good quality mail?
>>332262628
Not even close to being true.
>>332265397
Don't own a whole lot now
Had a longsword from darksword armory based on a find from the early 1300's, but ended up selling it because of problems with the sword, will not buy from them again.
The early medieval single hand sword from the tinker line by hanwei
Valiant armoury's templar longsword
Not everything I own is early medieval though
I have a tinker longsword bare blade that I'm working on building a hilt for
ronin katana has a scratch&dent sale every now and then, I grabbed a dojo pro there for very cheap
I own an antique spanish sabre from around 1907-1913
If I do get another, it'll be another early medieval arming sword, from a high end maker like Albion or maybe a semi-custom from a czech smith like ElGur
>>332264689
But why would i do that if i got horse archer?
bump
