Magic N shit
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You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games
You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games
I have recently made the immensely stupid decision to make my own shitty indie game. This game is going to focus all around magic, so I thought I'd come over here and get your opinions.
What are some types of magic, or uses of magic in video games you think there isn't enough of, or that you would like to see more of?
Got any ideas for crazy spells or wizard types or something?
Just want to bitch about the lack of necromancers in games or something?
If any of the above are things you have opinions on, please post them in this thread
>>331162546
Charm magic / emotion manipulation magic. Surprisingly large amount of karma / soul / existence erasing magic have been explored.
Time magic has been done, Teleportation has been done, necromancery is a good dark story to explore but evil races have been done before.
You could do something about permanent magic and laws, chinese novels love law bending magic / stories, but as for just an average magician being powerful enough to create permenant items in legitmate adventures, ya know the stuff adventurers find, those kind of stories are pretty rare I guess.
>>331163227
>Chinese novels love law bending magic
Sounds interesting, I can't say I have read many, or any Chinese novels, got any suggestions?
>>331163535
Generally the equivalent of magical energy is cultivation of energy within the world / environment / land.
Very chinese systematic with powerlevel of people that have barriers that require breakthroughs, generally energy manipulation allows a form of telekenisis for flying swords as an example.
You can't really get into the genre easily since heroes run on plot armor with the miracuolus luck that chinese love alot, especially to emphasis their strength above the masses.
The magic power then is typically very rare, yet everyone at their level of the story has it. At the strongest levels they are creating small realms / worlds, and the lore building has generally supported it, these environmental changing spells as well, or abilties that influence 1000 kms, since the world is like 100 million times larger than earth for example, and that's only the first part of the story.
When it comes to magic I guess what I'm pointing at it's about imagination and breaking the norms, you can tone down the type of fantasy land you want, but it's up to you how crazy you want your character to be capable of.
Story can go anywhere, demon souls has been quite good with the binding of a soul to a plane, and the demons corruption.
Spells the ones I like the most are combo multipliers, combination magic that wrecks like a scientific formulae.
No games do Clerics right.
It's always just healing.
Guess what, fuckers? It should be based around what god you worship.
If I worship Lamashtu I'm going to have spells that do weird shit.
Dream manipulation is the coolest non-combat magic tbqh
I wish more games let me be a space wizard
Like let me pick an area, and just completely distort it's location in space and time. You'd cast it where an enemy is standing and now look, the ground switched places with water and now he's drowning
>>331164895
So the magic is kind of the idea of qi, where there's a sort of energy that flows from things being in their rightful place in the universe?
Interesting stuff anon, thank you for sharing your thoughts.
>>331165138
>Non-combat
I've actually given some to this, OP. Got a few ideas about stuff I'd like to see.
Mechanics wise, the magic system should make the player feel like a wizard. I find a lack of being able to really customize my magicks in games.
What I'm imagining is a system that allows complete customization of the player's spells. Almost like you can edit the effects of spells as if 'adjusting' various sliders and values in a 3D modeling tool. I believe extensive customization. Would increase player immersion. It would allow spells to be more personal, and players could have their own unique 'flair' that would be cementef in the core of the game (combat). Gameplay-wise spells would translate into various attacks. I'm thinking top-down ARPG style. Maybe twin stick like controls. I'd enjoy the option to move while attacking.
Now the tricky part is assigning different outputs for all the spells based on what the player inputs.
I'd have the combat be physics based. Nothing too complex, simple projectiles and other attacks. Altering spells then affects how the behave in the combat system.
>>331166740
For the spell adjustment, do you mean something sort of like daggerfall/morowind type editing? Or something like that but more in depth?
Chronomancy.
Time dilation, forcing precise time lapses on enemies to make them frail. Or hastening any current status ailments.
Geomancy
Pulling earth up and making it rain down in a cascade of stoney splinters. Surrounding your enemies in a hollow stone formation to concentrate area damage.
>>331167184
When you talk about geomancy, do you specifically want more earth manipulation, or would you like to see more environmental manipulation in general?
>>331167183
Never played either. They're in the backlog though.
What I'm imagining is a system where variables (runes, words of power, whatever) are strung together as a sort of spell-language. Altering the phrase adjusts the output. Have the system function where players can come up with their own phrases as well.
>>331162546
Needs more necromancers desu senpai
It would be nice to see a good game based around necromancy but anyway as far as magic goes I always like the idea similliar to the blue mage from FF series but able to copy abilities/magic at will.
>Wizard spends years upon years studying this magic.
>carves intricate runes and shit into body to enahce that magic.
>can now copy ANYTHING from a person by touching them.
>and maybe saying some magic words or some shit.
>Can mimic their body language/appearance/skills like everything about them, but can only do one person at a time.
>Kinda like Kirby but more, and also a wizard.
That's just my thoughts.
I too love magic and feel like it is particularly uninspiring and boring in most games.
I too am making a game focused on a complex magic system.
I am actively searching for any games with good magic systems.
What are some interesting/cool/unique spells you know of anons? You included OP.
I don't think it's important to add rarely used categories of magic to your game. It would be way more interesting to explore different ways to use stereotypical magic and have flexible mechanics for them.
Pressing a single button to cast the same exact spell every time is dull, even if the spell looks flashy. Rather than have a fireball spell with the same animation, damage, etc. each time, why not to just have a generate fire spell that can be utilized a number of ways?
For example, the player could cast that same spell to illuminate their environment, singe a wound shut, cook food, and more. Of course they would still be able to throw the fire they generate to serve as a more traditional attack. The important thing is that through adjusting the intensity, size, and location of the same spell, its purpose can become radically different.
ideamancy
its where you spend all of your time thinking about cool spells and not how to actually cast them and then you get bored and give up
>>331168501
Environmental manipulation would be good. Especially if you can open a chasm in the earth granting yourself breathing room and creating a hazard.
>>331169069
Tried arx fatalis?
It's not exactly what you are describing (the sort of spells sentences/programs that are changed by order or that sort of thing) but it does have a fairly neat system for doing rune based magic.
I think there may be a game closer to what you are suggesting, but I honestly can't recall. Maybe I'm thinking of a book or something.
>>331165138
Completely pointless, unless your opponent is a little bitch who thinks dreams are important. And if they are, you shouldn't have trouble crushing them anyway.
Gasomancer? Alchemist + air mage?
It would be crowd control specializing in status ailments.
>>331169493
I feel the same way. Don't get me wrong, unique magic branches can be good for grabbing eyes but at the end of the day you're just pressing a button and watching the same effect over and over again in most cases.
Having magic that interacts with the world is good, but like the others are talking about with runes and words of powers, you kind of want the world to interact back with you if that makes sense.
Like, you actually want to feel like you are the wizard. So actually having interaction with your magic, like maybe you can forage and make potions in some sort of mini-game like setting, or maybe messing around with magical focuses like staffs and wands or reading spell books (within reason) could help in that regard. But I might be far off base over here.
>>331169384
Well as I already mentioned I enjoyed the rune drawing casting system of arx fatalis (though not how finicky it could be sometimes. I would say the sort of mixing and matching you could do in that game, and Lost Magic was enjoyable, and the drawing eiter in the air, or on the screen brought a good deal of physicality to something that is usually more about simple clicking.
I've heard two worlds (the second one I believe) has a good magic system, but I can't vouch for that as it's still in my backlog.
Personally I've always found myself partial to the game breaking stuff you could do in the first few elder scrolls series. In particular though Arena (the first game) is fairly unremarkable compared to spells in daggerfall, and perhaps even morrowind, I really enjoyed the fact that it gave you a spell that you could use to carve your way through the dungeon by destroying walls and floors, and creating new ones. I wouldn't recommend you actually play arena just for that, but that sort of environmental manipulation is something I think is lacking these days.
There are of course some popular roguelikes with soem interesting magic, most of which I never got too far into. For instance there's at least DnD inspired roguelikes which basically import all DnD spells utility included. (The one I played was called Incursion.
Dorf fort adventure mode doesn't really have magic from what I have been told, but it does have artifacts, and you can learn necromancy.
Magicka is a popular example of a game with a shit ton of spells, though I personally wouldn't say it's my favorite representation of magic.
That's about all I can think off of the top of my head
>>331169493
Well I wouldn't say I'm seeking out rare types for the flashiness, I just would like to explore things that are neglected, forgotten, or just fallen out of style. I mean even a single flashy idea like time magic, or space magic could make an entire game's wroth of mechanics done right, and has if all the time power games are anything to spit at. Not to mention asking people for flashy ideas is a great way to get people talking, who doesn't want to talk about something like that.
That isn't to say that I don't think it's good to explore the basics, your idea sounds like it would make a fine game.
>>331162546
first of all, book > staff. books and grimoires should be for more advanced magic shit.
Second, if this isn't a multiplayer game or a game with a party like Dragons Dogma, it would be a good idea to give your wizard a lot of support spells, and a lot of options. Otherwise it would end being Backpedaling: the game: the experience.
Have spells that conjure magic shields, spells that ensnare enemies, obviously include necromancy so you can have other members to distract, but I think it would be neat having a holy counterpart as well, bringing down guardian angels to shield you.
As for offensive spells, a dragons dogma-like system would be neat. Spells with various charges that can be unlocked, so the longer the charge the more powerful and advanced, but also more stamina/mana draining. However, since you will probably be alone, you would need a lot more than just 6 magic slots to fill.
As for unique magic? Sword conjurer. Can create magical swords at will and send them flying at enemies, generate a greatsword above your head and do a smash, or a greataxe to do a large clearing swipe. Player could even move his staff to imitate the motions, like it's a handle to the phantom weapons.
If you were to do any type of melee class, that would be the way to do it.
>>331172731
Very true! Also sorry if I came off a little snotty, I'm not really good with organizing my ideas, I just got caught up in the more lore-ish/every day aspects of wizardry.
I do admit I like the ideal of having some sort of golemancy being in a game, or possibly some form of alchemy to create a homunculus. Summoning is nice and all but having a way to create and customize a companion tailored to your casting style sounds really fun.
>>331162546
Transmutation Magic would be cool
Enchated items, reagents, and magical foci would be pretty cool as well
>>331173720
No, don't worry about it, you came off fine. I got what you were saying and I agree with you about the importance of deeper exploration making for tighter and more in depth mechanics.
>Golemancy
Intresting idea, could probably base a game around that alone.
>Alchemy based magic
Now there's something that's all too rare, and has a lot of potential.
>>331173647
How would you like to see books implemented? As held weapons that empower and allow you to cast spells? As something that gives the player knowledge on how to cast, or something else entirely.
>Support spells
Well of course, though I was when I created the thread thinking about having player's choose what spells they acquire or power up as they progress to suit their playstyle, either head on, or ways to avoid confrontation all together.
>Dragon's dogma spell system
I'll have to check it out, the game's been on my backlog for ages now and since it's now on PC I can't really excuse not playing it because of my dying 360.
>Sword Conjurer
I had been thinking of something like that to that, but perhaps a bit broader, such as a "Wizard-at-arms" for armed combat with a sort of arms and armor motief. Sumon shields to protect you, thrust with summoned spears, chop with halberds. I was thinking maybe if such a class were feasible, to make the spells cast through/augment the weapons.
>If you were to do any type of melee class that would be the way to do it
Either that or muscle wizard who could cast spells with their fists. At least that's the only things my tiny mind conceived of so far.
>>331175057
I wouldn't say so much as a musclewizard, but the wizard equivalent of a roider who uses magic buffs beyond belief to the point where a weak frail old man can punch the shit out of monsters. That would be another way to do it.
Books should probably be for more advanced and generally offensive, damage dealing spells, and maybe some large defensive stuff like shield conjuring. Staff would be for buffs, heals, and some minor offensive magics like basic bitch fireball casting, and sword conjuring stuff as I mentioned before.
If you want some lore-friendly reasoning to that, you could imply that magic in this world is a application of pure knowledge, and staffs while being more versatile and easy to learn can only "hold" so much information, whereas a book is massive and can store very large spells. Like a big piece of code or something.
Part of what makes magic cool is how experimental it can be. I think it would be cool to have a variety of base effects or elements to mess around with, and then to develop spells or strategies to make use of them.
>Cast Toxic, then Haste - body reacts to the toxin much quicker than normal
>Cast Sleep, then slow - target stays asleep for much longer
>>331174249
True, though the game style would also play a huge role in it too now that I think of it. Since some lore and mechanics wouldn't work if you were playing more of live-action oriented game vs a turned based rpg or vice versa.
For golemancy all I can really remember was just how much fun I had as a kid in Legend of Mana with collecting bits and pieces for them. Granted they never turned out great because I was really young, but I loved them nonetheless. And I could see it, even outside of any mechanics associated with it golems are a somewhat equivalent of a robot in a magical world - and they always have all sorts of story potential.
Alchemy on the other hand could be a blast. In most cases literally. I know the Atelier series does a somewhat good job when it comes to it but there's quite a bit that tends to follow under its branch.
>>331173925
Idea of transmutation magic could easily fall under it, and could be used in some pretty exciting ways. Like transmuting the properties of any armor or weaponry for devastating effects before or during battle.
>>331175587
Well, that's basically my conception of a "muscle wizard", close range fighter who uses buffs to go toe to toe with foes. Maybe a bit of pre battle casting and you could throw on some neat efects to be triggered on hit. Maybe a strong freezeing spell could freeze a foe solid, and then the next buffed punch shatters them. Or maybe you can buff speed, run right into a group of enemies and use a high level fireball spell on contact, knocking them back and letting you pass while they are stunned.
That sort of stuff is the kind of thing I'd like to sort of do, make the "classes" either be able to change their magic to suit their play style (long range, short range, utility magic only ect) but at the same time in a way that doesn't make them feel like the same spells you've already used before.
Of course that's the dream, who knows how possible it would be to implement that sort of thing.
>Books, staves and lore
I see, that would certainly make sense. And thanks for the lore anon, it seems like something I could work with.
>>331162546
More of something like Two World 2's magic system
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpd0BmtfssI
I just want a game where I can play a mage that isn't locked out of everything
>go into fire OH NOW YOU CAN'T USE WATER SPELLS TOO BAD
>go into healing NO MORE DARK SPELLS FOR YOU
As much as /v/ hates rng have you considered wild magic?
>every spell you cast has the chance of doing something completely random good or bad
if your gonna have a magic system make it feel involved like arx fatalis and turgor have the player drawing gestures to conjure spells, other dungeon crawlers like grimrock and ultima underworld have you memorize rune patterns and there is even a game on steam where you cast spells by voice recognition
>>331177471
sounds awful, bordering on retarded.
If this is the case remove any form of mana or mp.
Limitations can make and break.
>>331178127
>>331177556
Intended as a reply
>>331178127
>and
Don't you mean or?
If it's not Master of Magic or Dominions 4 magic it's shit.
AoW2 magic was decent though.
>>331178127
>>331178453
not necessarily but youve gotta take that into account when designing levels and stuff whether it's a cooldown or mana that limits casting
this is the voice recognition game by the way it's more of a puzzle game though and apparently pretty confusing and not that great but the gimmick is neat
http://store.steampowered.com/app/242840/
If you want a spell system that makes the player feel like a wizard, you need to be both deep and broad.
I won't type out an essay, but here's some bullets
-Lots of different types of magic: summons, debuffs, fuck em up spells, buffs/enchantments, heals, transformations i can't think of any more but you get the idea
-Some schools i think are underrepresented (some repeats from the thread): dream magic, illusion magic, blood magic, astral/cosmic, spirit, enchanted objects
-Good artists make, great artists steal: there nothing wrong with taking something you like and adding your own twist. Take skyrim conjuration as an example: you can conjure a sword- wow. Expand on that, you could make a whole spellbook of enchanted items/conjuration
-How is the player going to increase in power?
DECIDE EARLY ON how the games skills are going to be organized. What I mean by this is are spells going to be old books or scrolls you find at the end of a dungeon? Or maybe you just buy/learn them from some old fart in town. Will you make something like a talent tree (like old WoW/PoE diablo)? Or maybe a leveling system? (many variations) Do you want players to specialize/focus or have access to everything at some point and become a god? How will items affect how magic is cast? just stats? maybe something like Diablo 2 where items give ranks in spells?
best of luck, if you do this right I for one won't mind you shilling the fuck out of it on this board.
I look forward topiratingit
>>331178704
>Pirating free games
You heartless monster.
PROPER SUMMONING SYSTEM
>>331169915
I imagined a sort of language of magic, with different words for different functions. Some are base words, some are modifiers.
Example: Take the word for water. On its own, it does nothing. To actually do something with it, the player would need to know other words to alter its
base aspects. Modifier words could serve functions as projecting the water a certain direction from the player, as well as affecting speed, density, and other factors of the base form.
The modifiers would allow the player to alter the shape of the base form. Change a water form into a wave, or a wave form. Mix bases to create new forms to manipulate, and have variety in spells (and enemies).
Changes to base forms would come at a cost. The more complex a spell, the more mental strain it would take to cast. This could be represented by a mana pool, or as a sort of segregation system. The more strained your mind, the more likely the player will slip up and forget a word, or add one unintentionally. This could also allow for some neat moments of player discovery.
Thanks for all the replies anons, you've all been real helpful and I appreciate all the input, those of you who are still sticking around have a good one
>>331180154
Interesting Idea, it would be fascinating to see it get pulled off and it could make for one hell of a wizard video game.
Again not anywhere close to the level of detail you want, but you might want to check out lost manna, it's not a language of magic, but you have runes which you combine, (up to 4 in the late game) and you learn other rune combinations by sort of surmising how the runes work together.
The game's not that amazing, but I found it an enjoyable timekiller.
>HEY /v/ IM MAKING A GAME CAN YOU MAKE IT FOR ME
shit thread youre a faggot and youre never making a game
>>331182393
I think that's mean and hurtful language and I would like it very much if you wouldn't talk that way.
