You're all shitters
We've gone off topic.
Carlos is a true American hero.
>>345427571
Yeah. I feel like the Alice and Clover shit in Another Time is hinting at it, but more likely it is hinting at whatever was initially planned which the transporter replaced.
>>345428060
My moves are complex
Time to shitterpost.
Come to think of it, I don't see why they could use any other metallic objects to break the bracelets. The needles can't possibly be that sharp.
>>345428402
The reasoning behind that...is complex
Reposting cause any answer will do at this point:
>How the hell did Junpei know about the Dice timeline (which was on a completely different branch) when he hadn't shifted yet or accessed the morphogenetic field
>How the flying fuck did Carlos know EXACTLY how to set the transporter to the correct timeline when Sigma himself said it was too complex to understand exactly which timeline they were going to
>>345428313
Possibility for Akane's plan to return Alice and Clover:
>Bring them to transporter
>Tell them it's a one-way teleporter, don't mention that the original remains
>Transport them to the past
>Bullets to the head for the originals as soon as it's done, before they wake up
About par for Akane's morality.
Yea or Nay
>>345428538
Logically, you should pull it.
In the context of this game, you need to NOT pull it, so that Phi is incinerated, so that we can get her Brooch so we can give it back to baby Phi.
This was the weirdest fucking Team sequence.
>>345428538
>fuckhuge revolver
>>345428538
>>345428653
Delta made incinerating Phi and starving his Mother and Father to death a condition for his existence.
I find it really hard to believe he's a "benevolent antagonist", especially when Sigma and Diana could have been let out of the shelter shortly after Delta was transported to 1904.
>>345428808
>after Delta was transported to 1904
Right, maybe I'm misremembering, but didn't Sigma say he was sending them back to around 2008? Did I misremember that? Did he set it wrong?
>>345428915
I think he said he's sending them back before 2008. Why he would send them to pre ww1 and ww2 Germany is a bit strange though.
>>345428808
We don't know that that doesn't happen. But yeah, he's a bit of a dick in some cases. I like to imagine he is mildly autistic, hence his fascination with decisions, his complex motives and his general lack of empathy and emotion. He seems to be running on a different track so to speak
>>345429031
Seems like Delta isn't the only one with complex motives.
>>345429031
Because he's a senile retard.
>>345428915
Delta's 124 years old in 2028.
Sigma sent them way the fuck back for god knows what reason.
>>345429037
We do know for 100% certainty that he incinerates his sister.
What the fuck was Akane doing in this timeline anyways, letting them rot for 10 fucking months. She's either a complete and utter cunt, or she actually is working with Brother, which then brings in a whole slew of other problems.
>>345428183
It's like the third time i see this pic and i only got it now, lel
>>345429194
>Let's send them to 1904 Germany.
>Wait...didn't I forget something?
>Oh, right...the wars...
Also German scientists are known to be the best parents in the world.
>>345429230
I obviously meant the starving his parents. They may be released afterwards.
I just had an amazing dream where everyone just hung out at Dcom after the game in a post game scenario, and then it just fucking turned into Ever17, and through dialogue brick shitting twists just kept dropping, Carlos's sister was brought into it and Blick appeared at the end as a personification of the Morphogenetic Field itself, basically the sum of all of humanity, and under the pretext of finding the terrorist that way discovered a flaw on the collective unconcious which he fixed, allowing everyone to SHITT and fix all the problems
Why did Delta kill his parents multiple times in horrible ways?
Why did he shoot sigma, kill diana, then say MAMA!?
Why did he have a pre-recorded message berating diana saying how she's selfish, insane, a horrible person, and trapping her in the facility unti sigma got help?
Why are his motives so complex?
>>345429950
>Why did Delta kill his parents multiple times in horrible ways?
His motives are complex.
>Why did he shoot sigma, kill diana, then say MAMA!?
His motives are complex.
>Why did he have a pre-recorded message berating diana saying how she's selfish, insane, a horrible person, and trapping her in the facility unti sigma got help?
His motives are complex.
>Why are his motives so complex?
It's... difficult to boil the reason down to one word.
>>345429950
>Why did Delta kill his parents multiple times in horrible ways?
>Why did he shoot sigma, kill diana, then say MAMA!?
>Why did he have a pre-recorded message berating diana saying how she's selfish, insane, a horrible person, and trapping her in the facility unti sigma got help?
His motives are complex.
>Why are his motives so complex?
Life is simply unfair.
>>345429518
>ZE4 is Delta creating decision games for concentration camps
Guess we know where he got the idea for the showers.
>>345430127
>>345430167
The memes are the best thing to come out of this game.
#END IS BEGINNING
>>345428538
Y'all some indecisive fuckers so I pulled it for you.
Did you all find all the secret branch in the game?
>But that's not the point!
>It's complex!
>>345430797
That was honestly the best thing she did all fucking game.
>>345430984
The one with Snake? Yeah. Pretty neat wasn't it.
>>345430984
I loved the one where we visited lotus after we finally got left out.
I was wondering what Nona would look like in 3d.
Turns out, she'stotally fuckable
>>345428060
>You're all shitters
Yea... all humans need to get rid of waste somehow....
>>345431320
>>345431413
Buttttt... did you find KYLE?
>>345431671
You mean theSNAIL?
>>345431778
>??? at the end of VLR was actually the snail
That really got me.
What was with the recent update?
>>345428378
COMPLEX MOTIVES
>>345432864
PS Vita update.
It was originally released and it didn't work on the PS Vita TV despite being advertised to.
It took a week and a bit, and finally it was updated to work on the PS Vita TV.
>>345433075
So why the fuck are they making me download it on steam?
This game fucking sucks ass.
Played for 1 hour and was bored out oh my mind
>>345433749
Did you play the last 2?
>>345433867
No
It looked and sounded pretty cool but the plain and anemic dialogue combined with shitty animations and god awful pacing ruin this one for me.
>>345434027
Well there is your problem
I think a version of ZTD of this one with Delta and hijinks would be fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0u4M6vppCI
>>345434027
He means the last 2 games.
How come Delta could foresee the extinction of humanity but not any way to stop it except to murder everyone he possibly could?
ERIC DID NOTHING WRONG
NOTHING
WRONG
>>345434629
I could understand if he couldn't specifically know who the terrorist is because he can't see into the future. I just want to know why Akane does not know this fact because she is the one with insane future and alternate timeline reading capabilities.
Why didn't she see the future where literally everyone dies?
Why didn't she see who did it, and then stop him?
Why did she build her plan around an incredibly specific virus timeline?
Why did Delta say his main goal was to release the virus to kill the terrorist, but in every single ending but one the virus isn't a threat?
whyyyyyy
>>345434989
Naw. Eric can go fuck himself. And Clover too. 'All is forgiven because this time you didn't commit heinous murder over nothing with no evidence'. Nah, dude. Fuck that.
>>345435365
STOP
>>345435365
I'd do the same if people kept bullshitting me with aliens and time travel while my life was on the line.
>>345435285
I'm pretty sure you have to be there to actually see them
Following mechaSigma's timeline, Akane was already dwelling somewhere else when it happened
And I'm not sure the location is known to anybody
Then again this is a mess so trying to unfrodo things is dumb
Fix ZTD
> Every time everybody gets knocked out from sleeping drug, you get optional fragments that don't effect the flowchart that act as flashbacks and expands on the characters
> For example, if it's Phi; you could see her interact withOld Phi.
>>345437258
>Zero is a real villain, with a real motive.
>Remove shifting, or let it only occur when ? is observing the Esper in question.
>Remove ayyliens
>Fuck fragments.
>Make a twist that actually means something, rather than just being something cool for the player.
>>345431314
YOU TAKE THAT BACK
>>345437258
Harder, more intelligent puzzles that make you go 'ohhhhh, that's cool'.
Writing that relies less on characters being absolutely retarded with very dubious motives throughout.
And obviously animations and voice acting that isn't hilariously bad. Not that all the voice acting was bad, they had some good talent, the direction and timing really didn't work well though, everything seems like a parody.
>>345437880
Why would you play with english dub?
>>345437931
I don't speak Japanese.
>>345437982
>Not reading the subtitle
Your loss, the japanese dub is great. Couldn't stand the english voice acting, Meme Dub for a Meme Game
>>345434315
I tried my best senpai, but I'm not a mememaster
Also the fact that some parts were tailor made for "Shia Labeouf" made things complicated so I just added gab or old man from time to time, I'm sure someone can do better.
http://pastebin.com/Ev91Skxs
>>345438239
It had one of the guys who did a lot of Batman stuff whose voice I liked.
Anyway, it was mostly the disjoint animations and weird-ass camera angles that all had no flow with the script that made it so bad rather than the voice work.
Wait, why didnt Akane come back for Sigma and Phi on the Twins ending?
>>345438613
Presumably Delta arranged that so that he would be born. Or maybe Akane, being a stupid bitch, forgot completely or tripped over a rock on the way out and killed herself or some stupid shit like that. Snails.
>>345438613
There IS no POiNT in LIVInG after THE one YOU
care ABOUt the MoST is GONE
>>345438613
Life is simply unfair
>>345437258
Make all the characters less stupid. Half the shit they did or said was idiotic.
>don't do fragment shit and make it like VLR
>don't separate teams and keep them together
>make it "Nonary Game: Decisions Remix"
>let Carlos be the protag
>no one-ward shit and make it a sprawling underground bunker like the past two games
>make it that the entire plot revolves around people trying to get out to realizing Radical-6 is a problem and trying to circumvent that but failing multiple times instead of letting R-6 be just an afterthought threat
>Make Delta be the villain Brother was supposed to be and has no familial ties to
Sigma/Diana/Phi
>and the most important:drop cinematic experience and make it a VN experience
There, I fixed ZTD.
>>345439027
>implying people won't do dumb shit under pressure
>>345439159
Carlos wasn't the protagonist? Sure seemed like it for, like, most of the game.
>>345439416
i think he meant making him the sole protagonist without jumping to Diana/Q/Sean
>>345439416
He was the protaganist for about a third of the game. Sean and Diana were protagonists for the other two thirds.
>>345439167
>the possibility of being double poisoned by an "antidote" was a point of contestation when already writhing on the ground from pain
>>345439159
I feel like a lot of these problems stem from the fact that Uchikoshi either felt pressure or thought it was a good idea himself to make the game accessible for newcomers.
>>345439159
>Rename it Nonary Game Decisions Remix
>Not realising that Decision game also stands for the ten game players
kek
>don't do fragment shit
With the other changes you've made, keeping the teams together, you can keep the fragment shit. In fact, it'd make it even better, because the combinations would get really wacky.
>>Make Delta be the villain Brother was supposed to be and has no familial ties to Sigma/Diana
Anon... I...That was never gonna happen
>and the most important: drop cinematic experience and make it a VN experience
Pls. No. the cinematic approach wasn't the problem. It was the budget and the lack of meaningful and impactful branching choices.
You raise some good points, but you by no means fixed ZTD
>>345440089
>it was the budget
But choosing a VN style like the previous games instead of cinematic would've game them more money to spend on the rest of the game
>>345440290
That's gotta be a misconception of game creation. Just cutting the budget on animations doesn't mean it would be written any better.
>>345440290
>>345440290
Yeah, but the whole decision game aspect would've been way less impactful if it were a VN.Not to mention it wouldn't have saved much of the budget
>>345440290
3dcg is tad more expensive at the start but it's much faster giving them more time to invest on other things.
The game ran on 9 bucks budget and it all went bad, it happens.
Why did Zero have to do all this again? Doesn't hisvery existence mean that another Delta would have done this anyway, and he could have just talked with the SHIFTers like a reasonable adult?
>>345440976
He had to create himself. As well as help them unlock their true shifting potential.
>>345440976
C O M P L E X
O
M
P
L
E
X
I'm going to marry Carlos!
>>345440976
>Doesn't hisvery existence mean that another Delta would have done this anyway
The game's basically telling the story ofthis other Delta
>>345440976
Why was he so bent on creating himself anyway? He dies in most of the endings, and the only accomplishments he has is creating a death cult and killing 75% of the world. Surely he doesn't think all of this has to be done just to convince 9 people to find one guy.
>>345441192
>Surely he doesn't think all of this has to be done just to convince 9 people to find one guy.He does.
>>345441192
Delta set up the Decision Game so that he would be born and the three teams would all live and come together at the end motivated to stop the nuclear war from happening.
Presumably his giving Carlos the gun at the end is the start of the timeline branching that would they would have to traverse to find out how to stop the world from being destroyed.
Apparently his character motivation for this is because his little brother died from happenstance and he hates how the world isn't fair, so he's engineering that shit. I think that's what you're supposed to conclude anyway.
>>345441192
Have you seen what would happen if he broke the bootstrap paradox that is his existence. Because I haven't but I imagine it would be universe destroying
>>345438767
>>345438780
She didn't die. Check the status screen after Delta and Phi are born, both of them have ALIVE written below their portraits and so does Akane.
>>345441062
Why would he have to? He could have just transported himself into about 24 timelines since the time he got the transporter.
>>345441862
That shit isn't accurate.Like before Carlos 2 breaks C-Team out of the bunker in the VLR timeline. The status screen shows him as dead.
>>345441901
And what would that've accomplished?
>>345441901
How does that work. He wouldn't've had any parents and would've never been born. I think having a character that created himself would be a pretty stupid plotpoint.
>>345437258
>Fix ZTD
>remove fragmentation so we actually commit to ~Decisions~ and live them through
>proper endings to the branches that show how shit unfolds and where it leads in the future, may even throw a lighthearted joke ending ala chrono trigger where everyone is a robot for a giggle
Not really a fix but this would at least remedy some glaring issues
Alternatively
>throw entirety of that script and start anew
Really, this game doesn't have it's own ;egs to stand on, all the gimmicks are directly from VLR, we are familiar with them, there's 0 surprise anywhere. We know we can SHIT, we know none of those endings matter, we don't care and are bored. It doesn't help that they're boring, don't tell anything and shit on already established characters, and we forget them a second later when choosing another decision. No, Uchi, turning Bluebird Lamentation every 5 minutes doesn't make these shitty ending more dramatic and impactful, no, you're marring a good fucking song with your poor attempt at tearjerkingTeam D endings are alright a guess though, mostly because they're familiar and really, seeing genuinely awesome from all sides guy like Sigma being mangled into a cripple was really painful
>>345442072
That's because it only updates in terms of who is in the bunker. Carlos 2 never was so he doesn't register. Akane was alive when she left, so she stays alive. She may have died after she left though, which I think is your point.
>>345442075
>>345442097
Now he has another one of himself to take care of the dirty work while he goes and has a nice day.
>>345441664
The virus end in ZTD is already breaking bootstraps, isn't it? In that specific timeline Phi and Delta aren't born.
>>345442309
Because in the timeline that Delta and Phi were born they were sent to before the timelines of ZTD split, they'd be in every one of the timelines. At least that's what I think.
Why did everyone have such incredibly high blood pressure? Pretty sure blood isn't supposed to spray out like that.
>>345442402
So you don't actually need to complete the chain, because they already exist and can break off from the circle whenever they want, creating a new timeline. This was established in VLR.
>>345442470
the drugs they kept being injected with fuck with their blood pressure or something i dont fuckin know
t. Uchikoshi
>>345442116
The fragments system could have been a great idea if they went the right direction with it.
>go to a new fragment
>X and Y are dead, Z doesn't remember why and is freaking out
>four hours later
>go to a new fragment
>make a decision
>X and Y die
Instead we get one fragment where Junpei's dead of mysterious causes, and one where Mira is, and neither of them turn out to have good explanations.
The presence of the global flowchart was also a mistake, although I appreciate how it changed after some of the twists.
Did anyone else hope Eric would kill all of Q team including himself with the grenade launcher?
>>345442728
Don't forget the fragment where Phi is dead
>Oh, silly Zero! Making us do puzzles with these OBVIOUSLY FAKE body parts!
Really, Uchikoshi?
Are there any puzzle games with thriller aspects like this series but which doesn't hand-hold the shit out of you when it comes to puzzles? I felt like these games all treated you like an eight year old and practically told you the answer every time
>VLR
>Every other sentenve discusses Schrodinger's Cat
>In a game following Many-Worlds theory
>Schrodinger's Cat only works in Copenhagen Interpretation
>ZTD
>Follow Many-Worlds theory
>Never discuss Quantum Suicide
Delta did nothing wrong. His complex reasons for doing this have been seen since ancient times. He had to make sure they knew about this horrible maniac.
>>345443089
It does sort of talk about Quantum Suicide with Carlos. Like how he always knows how to avoid danger, and he realizes that he just died in every other universe.
>>345442728
>go to a new fragment
>watch shows 18:03
>X and Y are dead, Z doesn't remember why and is freaking out
>new fragment
>watch shows 0:07
>team X still alive
>decision kills part of team X
>later realize fragments were actually in reverse order and not different timelines
>final puzzle is figuring out the global flowchart
Shit would have been great.
>>345443089
Not too familiar with that stuff, but what about many-worlds doesn't work with Schrodinger's Cat? IIRC it was only used in VLR to explain how certain alternate decisions wound up having retroactive effects.
I just looked up the quantum suicide bit now and it seems similar to the "sleeping beauty problem" they mentioned.
>>345428442
Sigma said it was too complex for him to understand in the two minutes they had left.
Zero Sr. hinted at aliens in his termite speech. Checkmate, haters.
>>345443601
Well, basically VLR doesn't have a true shrodingers cat. Who is in K's armour doesn't change depending on what you observe, even if it seems that way, but it is dependent on what timeline you are in. In the timeline where you find Akane's body it is always K, and the timeline where you don't it's always Akane. A real Schrodinger's cat would be where both are equally possible in a single timeline, and only opening it solidifies which one is in it. it's an illusion of a Schrodinger's cat, but not a real one, as the inhabitant is determined before you open it. It only really works if there is a single timeline, because otherwise the cat is never in a state of flux; there is a timeline for each possibilty
>>345434027
The beginning of the game is kind of slow and the animations are shit.
Also it's the third game in a series idiot
>>345442960
>Oh hey Kahn-EY! Where Junpei?
>Iunno i woke up and he's nowhere
>Welp aight let's look around, escape time!
>Hey there's someone's bloody torn off hands and legs, who could they belong to? Ah whatevs, probs fake, i wonder where Junpei is
How long has the "Two Marty McFly" theory been around? Cause I never thought it that way.
>>345444184
Yeah, that was actually hinted at in VLR.I was expecting it to be some allegory as to how Akane/Brother viewed humanity as termites because they were 'post-humans'
>>345446186
The characters in VLR are the termites and we are the ones who can see the structure of their timelines in all its glory.
>>345444301
They are equally possible up to a certain point, though. The observation that determines who's in the suit isn't when the suit is opened - it's the decision at the first set of doors, since that's the first point at which the player can be certain that Akane is alive or dead. Prior to that, you could say that the wearer of the suit is in a state of flux.
>>345446339
Eh, that makes sense too I guess.
>>345446447
No, but that isn't correct either. In reality, the flowchart is inaccurate, as we are playing the doors with Akane in the suit from a different branch to the ones without her in the suit. Even though the flowchart makes it look like the timeline splits there, it splits earlier. There would also be a version through that door where Kyle is in the suit, and vice versa for the others. We just don't see these timelines. This is for conveniences sake, and also to give the illusion of the Shrodinger's cat. But it isn't one, because they are impossible in a many worlds interpretation. The moment you save Akane is what determines who is in the suit, not when you go through the doors as the game leads you to believe
>>345446526
That took a turn I wasn't expecting, but boy did I like it.
>>345446868
I see what you mean. The flux state only exists from the player's perspective due to the identical way in which the two timelines play out up to the first choice.
>>345447892
Yeah. That's pretty much it. Explained it better than I could.
