So what happened to this guy?
>>345252869
The Furtive Pygmy is Manus.
>>345252869
He became the Lost Sinner in ds2
>>345253170
>Lost Sinner
>he
>>345253170
Lost Sinner is a woman, though.
>>345252869
Leading theory is he's Manus
>>345252869
What happened to everything introduced in DS1?
>>345252869
He found the original Dark Soul and fathered humanity
>>345253352
>>345253382
That was just a fan theory. Women were not punished or jailed in drangleic. Read the lore.
>>345253595
>Soul of the Lost Sinner
>Soul of the Lost Sinner, prisoner of Sinner's Rise.
>The Lost Sinner eternally punishes herself for the sins of her past.
>Use the special soul of the Lost Sinner to acquire numerous souls, or to create something of great worth.
He fought with Gwyn against against the dragons, but plotted against him because he spared Seath. He was locked away for his own good and hollowed. But his envy and rage took on a life of its own and became Manus.
>>345253595
>The true nature of this sword is unknown, even to the Lost Sinner HERself.
-Description for the Lost Sinner's Sword
>>345252869
Wait for the DLC for dark souls 3
>>345253858
nigga what
>>345254683
>havel is the only named human we know about who was alive in the Age of Dragons with Gwyn and the other Lord's Souls
>his miracles are sold by Dark related characters in DS2
>one of his miracles is in Ash Lake in DS1
Havel is the pygmy bro.
>>345253850
>>345253863
It's referring to the sword not the fertile pygmy
>>345254973
Super fan theory
It's fucking obvious Manus is the furtive pygmy
>>345255302
Havel is Manus
>>345255164
It's time to stop posting.
>>345255164
>>345252869
He went crazy.
>>345255460
You find Havel hollowed and kill him
What was that then?
>>345255460
Who'd you kill in the tower basement, then asshole?
>>345255671
Technically you kill Manus too, and "before" you fight Havel.
>>345255735
Meant to quote >>345255608
>>345252869
Died.
Got some glass tubes up his asshole.
Became Manus and accidentaly created the Abyss.
>>345255608
>>345255671
you fight Havel like 4 different times throughout the series. Who's to say they have to be real
We don't know exactly what happened to him or what his intentions were. The only thing we know is that he found the Dark Soul, he waited on the sidelines for the Fire to fade and then...nothing. The Fire faded, Gwyn linked the Fire, and he disappears from history.
Prevailing theory is that he and Manus are the same person and yet even that theory has holes in it
>>345253858
>>345254973
this is even more autistic than the ''solaire is gwyn son'' theory
>>345253050
Kaathe also claims the furtive pygmy is your progenitor/ancestor.
If both are true, Manus would be your ancestor. I like how the dark soul relates to humanity, and Manus has a very primate-like appearance.
>>345255950
Havel was a general, but his soldiers still donned the same armor/rings.
>>345252869
He pulled the biggest horcrux in the history
>>345255460
how?
>>345256179
Funny thing about humanity in Dark Souls is how they push the idea that humanity is inherently self destructive and yet necessary at the same time.
>Sorcery of Manus, Father of the Abyss.
>Grant a fleeting will to the Dark of humanity, and volley the result.
>The will feels envy, or perhaps love, and despite the inevitably trite and tragic ending,
the will sees no alternative, and is driven madly toward its target.
>>345256267
i.e. put his soul into a bunch of little girls?
>>345253170
Lost Sinner is connected to (but isn't) the Witch of Izalith. The bug thing that crawls into her head is the same as the thing at the Bed of Chaos.
Pygmy became Manus and when Manus was killed the fragments of his soul were reincarnated into various women seen in DS2.
>>345256423
>Funny thing about humanity in Dark Souls is how they push the idea that humanity is inherently self destructive and yet necessary at the same time
Not really, humanity in souls universe just represents phisicality, love and feelings in general.
No wonder the gods are represented in a bad light, given that their souls are the opposite of a human's. They always act like cold bastards,because that's what they are, by nature at least.
Oh boi, time for another extended lore dump:
When the Lord Souls were being handed out, the Furtif Pigmy was given "The Dark Souls", and told to sit underground (in "The Dark/Below") and wait for the Age of Fire to end, and when it was over he would head on up to the overworld and kickstart the Age of Dark/Man. So he did just that, and sat in the underground/dark waiting for the Age of Dark/Man to happen naturally after the Age of Fire had subsided. However, after he was left in the underground/dark for an extended period of time due to the Age of Fire being extended by the Witch of Izalith, the underground/dark mutated into "The Abyss", thus mutating the Pygmy into "Manus, Father of the Abyss". When Manus is killed in the DaS1 DLC, instead of staying dead, the "Dark Soul" he was in possession of fragmented itself and shattered across time.
After who-knows how many years later, those fragments took shape as women attempting to marry themselves off to the many different kings of the 4 different reigning kingdoms around the area of Drangleic. With the idea that if they could marry the Kings, and then assume control of the land, they would be able to usher in the Age of Dark/Man and finally put the extended Age of Fire to rest. (These women being the 4 Queens you meet throughout DaS2 and it's DLC, and being a heavy plot point in the game's lore)
Of course the Bearer of the Curse from DaS2 didn't want that shit to fly so he killed all of the Queen's (except the one good one who didn't give a fuck about anything any more), and as far as we know it's now all been put to rest. Maybe DaS3 DLC will add another chapter to all this crap, but until then, the Pigmy's story ended with DaS2.
>>345256526
He stuck his soul everywhere he could
Even the tightest crevisces have his aura
>>345256878
>DaS2
>canon to ds1
>>345252869
Even he forgot he existed so he dissappeared from existence
>>345256878
Nigger he wasn't given the dark soul, he found it.
Do keep in mindDark Souls is mildly influenced by the Big Bang and Heat Death theories.
>>345256878
>extended lore dump
AKA: shit I or some e-celeb made up
>>345252869
He's the jew of the souls universe, he controls every destiny.
>>345256878
what a load of crap, first of all the Age of Fire wasn't extended by the Witches, they failed miserably and create the Bed of Chaos and spawn demons across the land. It was Gwyn's sacrifice which linked the Fire anew, thus prolonging the Age of Fire.
Second i don't think he "had" the Dark Soul, like all the other Lord Souls, it seems like those who found it absorbed it to become Nito, Gwyn, the Witch of Izalith, and the Pigmy spread the Dark Souls fathering humanity, he is like the first human, and every human has a shard of dark soul in him
>>345257045
>It's not canon because I DON'T LIKE IT
niceme.me
>>345257246
Yeah, my bad. Meant "gave" in the sense that he was "given" it by the first flame or whatever.
>>345257348
>Watching e-celebs
Eww.
And I'm only saying shit that that's already been said in the games.
>>345257398
>Age of Fire wasn't extended by the Witches
Again, my mistake. Their botch was what lead Gwyn to extend it, I know.
>>345257045
>DaS2 isn't canon meme
It very obviously is canon. All 3 games tie together in one way or another. I'm fully expecting to see Aldia in one of the DaS3 DLCs.
>>345257246
>Do keep in mind Dark Souls is mildly influenced by the Big Bang and Heat Death theories.
Lord of Hollows ending canon ending confirmed
>>345257547
No, you are filling in some sparse facts with your own headcanon
>>345257681
>Touch first DLC bonfire
>It explodes
>>345256878
>told to sit underground
by who? gwyn?
fuck off retard. your lore is fucking wrong
>>345257547
>hey guys this game made by another team and another director have canon answers to this another game!
nice
meme
Who? I forget
>>345255164
Never has a string of posts led me to such a confusing end
I'm confused about Dark Souls III endings. It seems like the Lord of Hollows ending is the same as the Dark Lord ending in Dark Souls I (especially with the connections to Darkwraiths and Kaathe), but III has its own ending that also isn't re-lighting the fire. What's the difference?
>>345257681
we already have ds2 dead npcs and armor thats enough
>>345257736
Whatever helps put your mind to rest anon.
If you have a better theory I'd love to hear it.
>>345257845
Who fucking knows. We DO know from Kaathe that the Pygmy was waiting underground for the Age of Fire to subside so he could start the Age of Dark/Man. Why he had to stay down there I don't think is ever specified so yeah, I might have accidentally waffled, but it's still the case nonetheless.
>>345257874
>game made by another team
2/3 of the team is the same from DaS1. And the Game is indeed called "Dark Souls 2", no "Drangleic Adventures" or some shit. It's canon newfriend, even if you don't like it I'm afraid.
>>345258156
DaS2's gameplay may have been "bad to meh", but Aldia is one of the few genuinely interesting NPCs in the series.
>>345258156
>Not wanting the one good NPC to come out of DaS2 to make a comeback
Pleb.
>>345258213
>I didn't make anything up
>whoops, looks like I did teeheee, that doesn't count
>>345258125
>Lord of Hollows
You're god.
>but III has its own ending that also isn't re-lighting the fire
That's the time loop ending. As seen in the opening cinematic, the Soul of Cinder carries your charred body to the Cemetery of Ash after you (fail to) link the fire. You're unkindled ash, unfit even to be cinder, remember?
>>345258125
Hollow ending usurps light and fire, humanity taking over. Dark ending just ends the cycle, except there are still small flames dancing in the dark, foreshadowing a possibly different future
>>345258361
>>whoops, looks like I did teeheee, that doesn't count
>Things_I_never_said.post
As I said, the Pygmy DID sit underground waiting for the Age of Fire to end, that's something we know. We just don't know why, so I made a basic assumption. The "being told" part was a messup on my part which is the part of my post that I admitted to fucking up on. learn2read, anon.
>>345258347
>liking ds2
pleb
>>345258213
it would make much more sense if it were called drangleic adventures because it have nothing to do with ds1 other than mentions in item descriptions and items from ds1.
>>345256878
DS3 has Karla. She really doesn't have much going for her but she's a self admitted Child of Dark. Read the description for her ashes.
>>345258446
Oh fuck I misread, the second paragraph is about the "To Link the Flame" ending
>>345258664
>it's okay to make shit up as long it's just a """"""""""""""""""""""""basic assumption""""""""""""""""""""""""
DaS lore is an in-joke went too far
>>345258446
so then what's the difference if you kill the firekeeper or not
what are the lore implications of this? why mimics have superpowers in ds2 but they don't in ds1 and 3?
>>345258668
>because it have nothing to do with ds1 other than mentions in item descriptions and items from ds1
So it does that thing that the DaS formula is known for furthering plot and lore with? Fucking colour me surprised anon, you broke the code.
>>345258943
>""""""""""""""""""""""""basic assumption""""""""""""""""""""""""
Well now you just sound upset.
>>345258686
What aspect of Manus is she even supposed to represent? She seemed almost half-assed, and is notably weak to be an actual shard of Manus.
>>345257681
>Sorcery imparted by the first of the Scholars, when Lothric and the Grand Archives were but young.
>Fires a torrential volley of souls.
>The first of the Scholars doubted the linking of the fire, and was alleged to be a private mentor to the Royal Prince.
Really makes you think.
>>345259163
The do the same shit in 3, at least some of them do.
>>345259056
Now about the ending you ge by using the eyes on the Firekeeper,
You basically reset the universe in both versions of the ending, the only difference is that in the ending where you kill the Firekeeper, you're character regrets his decision as he too is powered by fire, and clings to the last bit of fire in the world.
I think the better question is what happened to this guy, the coolest character in the game?
>>345258664
>some guys says youre making shit up
>you say you are only saying shit thats already been in the games
>he says that its your headcanon
>i say you are fucking retarded and nobody told the pygmy to stay underground
>"oopsies i totally made that up in my own personal head canon"
>"wtf why is this guy saying i made up my own head canon i totally didnt"
you are retarded. stop posting.
>>345259458
Canon got killed in Anor Londo. One of the mutated outrider knights has his ring.
>>345259458
you kill him
>>345259458
You killed him.
>>345259394
I tested and they don't
>>345259458
main character of ds1 killed him
How much of the Dark Souls lore makes it across the games?
>>345256980
Y-You mean... Even my own butthole?
Not a lorefag here, what's the deal with Ornstein? And why are characters and armor sets mysteriously recurring across the games?
>>345252869
Pretty clear cut that it's manus.
We'll find out more in the DaS3 DLC.
>>345259394
Nah their hitboxes are outrageous sometimes but never that bad
>>345259268
She's the furtive part. And Alsanna wasn't exactly a powerhouse neither.
>>345259474
>Say Pygmy was underground
>Explain that this is canon, courtesy of Kaathe
>Accidentally say "TOLD to stay underground"
>Get called out for it
>Explain that I fucked up
>Mention that we don't really know WHY he chose to stay underground for so long
>Anons still getting salty
That's the way it is anon, I apologise for making you so personally offended.
>>345260208
you "accidentally" made a thousand fucking mistakes in your original post. only a retard can make that many mistakes. you are a retard. stop posting
>>345260096
If anything Alsanna was the most powerful of them. She blanketed an entire kingdom in unending winter and held down the Old Chaos, all on her own.
Elana and Nadalia had to wait around and gather Souls to gain effective power, and Nashandra was canonically the weakest.
Even so, all of them were significant to their plots and had obvious influence. Karla is just a typical NPC and nowhere near any of them.
>>345259579
>>345259581
>>345259593
>>345259669
Where did he come from though, and also the same question about Xanthous jeremiah and Kirk of Thorns. I assume that there's no definite answer but fantasizing about what these guys are doing in the world of DS1 are what I love most about the game.
>>345260434
>Only point out one mistake
>Keep bringing that one mistake up despite corrections
>I AM UPSET
Wanna give that one another shot champ?
>>345260662
>Not I AM SILLY
One job.
>>345260434
>>345260662
Cmon guys this is the best game ever created. Its better than the rest of this board, there's no room for personal disputes.
>>345260662
im not the only one who replied to you pointing out mistakes dumbass. jesus christ
>>345256878
God damn look at the man-face on Dusk
>>345260662
>>345260208
You're too reasonable for this place, anon. Also, your theory generally seems reasonable. Though
>he killed all of the Queen's (except the one good one who didn't give a fuck about anything any more), and as far as we know it's now all been put to rest
Nah. Reincarnation is canon. It happened to Manus. It happened to the "four great souls", and you could even argue that DS3 toys with the concept. I really doubt that killing the queens was enough to end that.
>>345260645
>Where did he come from though
>Lautrec of Carim
New Jersey
>>345259948
anybody?
>>345261219
>New Jersey
>>345261325
He's got the tan for it
>>345259948
References. Some half-baked item description is made that vaguely links them to the game somehow and bam, done.
>>345260862
No MS Paint memes yet anon, but I was waiting.
>>345260921
I wish /v/ could just talk about games all the time, but it's like 80% shitposting since all the board splits. Seems only time people don't get upset are nostalgia threads and weebshit. Could be worse I guess.
>>345261081
And I corrected myself where appropriate, why are you still angry?
>>345261128
>You're too reasonable for this place, anon
I learnt years ago getting triggered at video games on an anonymous Mongolian cave-painting board is beyond pointless, so there's that.
>I really doubt that killing the queens was enough to end that.
I do kinda hope we get an Abyss themed DLC, or at least one explaining what the Deep is supposed to be, if Manus or the Dark Souls fits into that then all the better.
>>345261467
>im not triggered but im still replying to every post in a self aggrandizing, passive-aggressive manor
you are the worst kind of poster. kill yourself
>>345259948
DS1 ornstein: illusion
DS2 pikachu: a follower of ornstein's reanimated corpse brought back to give the way of blue some legitimacy to the plebian undead
Ds3:real ornstein she'd all his armor to reunite nameless king and become his new dragon steed
Armor sets are just imitations or pieces of equipment that managed to stand the test of time. Most Characters aren't truly hollow yet so they can't experience permadeath and come back
he smoked his last bowl
>>345259948
>And why are characters and armor sets mysteriously recurring across the games?
The real reason: Pandering, that's all. Every Dark Souls game had it, Fromsoft just fucking loves to masturbate and add old content to their sequels or new releases. Whether that's a good thing or not is up to you.
Lore reason: TIME IS CONVULTED.
There is no reasonable, other way. Time traveling is canon! The explanation that stuff is just so sturdy it existed for countless aeons is really unlikely. "Cycles" might be responsible for it, too. I'm still not sure whether Dark Souls 3's characters are supposed to be reincarnations of previous characters (Just look at Siegward).
>>345261467
>I do kinda hope we get an Abyss themed DLC, or at least one explaining what the Deep is supposed to be, if Manus or the Dark Souls fits into that then all the better.
Very likely. Especially considering the related-stuff we already saw in Dark Souls 3. I'm more curious about the "angels", though.
>>345261854
>passive-aggressive
Whatever helps you sleep at night anon. I have been bested.
>>345262156
Weren't the angels the Winged Knights? I saw a theory a while back saying that they could have been the Pilgrim Butterflies, or even the Primordial Serpents, each with reasonable logic behind them. So I guess if we get more on the subject to clarify things, that would help.
>>345260921
Is this some kind of elaborate bait?
>>345262005
>DS1 ornstein: illusion
An illusion that hits hard, gives items and souls
>>345253050
>>345256179
Manus is most likely not that one guy, but the person that first amassed a lot of humanity and getting consumed by it.
>>345262565
>the person that first amassed a lot of humanity and getting consumed by it
So...Manus
>>345261307
When you kill a character, you can take his armor. The lore explanation for this is that the armor is still kicking even though the character is not.
The real reason is it would be hard to wipe the slate clean and make all new armor sets and weapons. You only need to make a handful and put the old stuff in for nostalgiafags.
So I think Ornstein left the bossroom with Smough in Dark Souls 1 to go searching for his master, The Nameless King. I think what you fight in Dark Souls 1 is actually an illusion from Gwyndolin. He had a lot of influence over that area.
In Dark Souls 2 I think that is just some faggot cosplaying as him.
That said.
>"The flow of time is convoluted, with heroes centuries old slipping in and out."
In all actuality it seems more like these are all just different dimensions. And the universe in Dark Souls 3 might not be a direct continuation of your player character's journey through Dark Souls 1.
The correct answer is that there really isn't a direct answer. We are in the dark.
>>345262790
Yeah.
I thought the other two anons meant that Manus was the first human to have that power in him. Which I personally think is not true.
>>345262445
>see giant sentinels in Anor Londo
I only played DS2 for 3 hours at a friend's house and haven't been near DS3. Are these games connected at all?
>>345262445
the other illusions give souls and items, so...
>>345263225
>Is DS2 and DS3 related.
>DS2
Run. Run and never look back. You'll go insane.
>>345263225
>Are these games connected at all?
To some degree.
Not necessary to play them in order for the story, though. But recommended.
But you absolutely should start out with the first one, on PC.
>>345263479
I got all of the achievements on X360 for the first one. Never got to play DLC though, I missed the free handout of the Prepare to Die Edition on PC. Tried pirating it, but got bored with playing through the same shit for the 4th time and couldn't beat the manticore.
>>345263225
>Are these games connected at all?
The internet is still trying to figure that out.
Recently Vaati has attempted suicide several times because he can't comprehend the lore anymore, it's had a spasm and now it's like tangled wires except there are no ends.
>>345263225
Very thinly, bothering with lore is absolutely nonsensical since there is most likely no "grand scheme" behind it all, just recycling what's popular and putting cool-sounding shit for the sake of it
>>345263920
>I missed the free handout of the Prepare to Die Edition on PC
What...?
There is only one edition on the PC, no matter where or when you buy it.
If you're really bored of the earlier parts, you could have just cheesed it with some cheats in offline mode.
>couldn't beat the manticore
While challenging and needing some decent reflexes, the two later bosses are more difficult.
>>345264295
>bothering with lore is absolutely nonsensical
I like the stories that are being told in the games, but I don't care for the ultimate grand scheme of things, which I think is the best way to take the lore.
But not giving any shit about the characters etc. also makes you miss out on some good stuff.
>>345264553
>But not giving any shit about the characters etc. also makes you miss out on some good stuff.
I was more talking about all the "Seth's actually Priscilla's father and he fucked Gwynivere" level of fanwankery
Anyone got the posts some dude made on /aco/? The ones where the women became a part of the chosen undead's harem.
>>345265331
>fanwankery
Just because you don't accept that doesn't make it "fanwankery".
>>345265331
It's ambiguous and there's no concrete proof so no one should be saying that in confidence if they don't want to look like a dummy anyway.
>>345265560
How is making stuff up not fanwankery?
>>345263007
>>345262790
>>345262565
Manus is the name of the hand.
Manus means hand.
>>345265710
Well, I don't know Anon, maybe people just think it's very likely?
>>345266038
It's still fanwank, or fanon if you feel offended, aka making shit up from few official hints and filling the gaps with your own imagination
>>345252869
he's the ancestor/source of all humans
>>345260645
xanthous king is from izalith
kirk must been from new londo or carim
>>345266656
You act as if that's a terrible thing to do.
Pretty sure most people don't take theories like that as pure fact. And theorizing is not a bad thing at all.
After all, there are also people that think she was Seath's experiment (with the lifehunt ability to keep the other gods in place).
>>345263225
>What things are related between all games
Humans are creatures of darkness
There's a First Flame and it's going out
There are Undead and there's a curse
There's certain Undead that go around killing everything around them until they get super strong and can relight the First Flame...or not
The rest FROM just kind of messes around with
>>345262978
>fartorias the obese walker
>>345267280
I think it's just a waste of time and a stupid reason to like a game
>>345267439
>I think it's just a waste of time
Like so many things we do.
>a stupid reason to like a game
I don't know what to say, but I think you're having a completely wrong image of lorefags. Sure, people come up with the craziest shit, but most are very much aware that it's just speculation.
To tell you another theory, some people think Velka was involved with Priscilla in some way (mother, guardian, whatever), since there are so many Velka-related items and even enemies in the painted world.
>>345267398
>>345259996
It's not that their hitboxes are bad (they are) its the fact that the requirements for a grapple to be triggered is as basic as having the grapple attack damage the player, regardless of where they were facing.
This is hugely prevalent in DS2 as you could get hit by a grapple attack on the backswing and it would literally teleport you into the grapple animation point.
>>345267398
Hey I became an abyss walker too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxhrQCDtHXw
>>345259948
Some of them are alternate realities. In some games Ornstein is killed by the pc. In some, he leaves before the pc arrives and goes to become a dragon for the nameless king.
>>345260645
https://www.youtube.com/user/VaatiVidya/videos
This covers all the invasion npcs.
>manus is pigmy may may
kys ebin meme bro
>>345259996
Lazy ass animation and combat mechanics like this are why I dropped the souls series
>>345273489
I'm still kinda sad people refuse to acknowledge the alternate realities/warped time explanation. It was the explanation used to justify phantoms and online play in Demon's Souls, there's no reason for it to be any different here.
>>345267398
heh
>>345274681
>>345274957
>>345252869
i kind of don't like how nothing specific about the furtive pygmy is really disclosed other than that i guess he used his dark soul to create humans. we know a lot about the other guys by comparison, but we aint got shit on the pygmy
>All those references and fanservice in DS3
>No mask of the father
>>345279545
No giant set either, despite going back to Anor Londo
Theres concept art/mockup of Consumed Kings garden from the leak where one is shown, they got replaced with Cathedral knights though.
So maybe in the dlc
>>345253850
Japanese doesn't use gendered pronouns like that.
>>345253404
DS2 happened
>>345280005
>inb4 dlc boss is overpowered giant dad
>>345280034
European, and American countries do.Either the translation is bad, or its a woman.
>>345257246
Then from the dark, They came, and found the Souls of Lords within the flame. Nito, the First of the Dead, The Witch of Izalith and her Daughters of Chaos, Gwyn, the Lord of Sunlight, and his faithful knights. And the Furtive Pygmy, so easily forgotten.
Its possible that The other lords found the dark soul to be......Repulsive or something. And Decided that They didn't want it. But it was also powerfully, so they needed someone they could control to take it. so the made the pygmy take it. But then they forgot about him
>>345280034
Tanimura and some other higher ups talked about how The Lost Sinner was originally male but changed to female in the dev interviews.
>>345280870
>hardest boss in the game is The Fookin Legend
>>345256878
Also my mind was blown when I got into the ice DLC and saw the "old chaos" seized in there. That's when I realized it was Izalith, Sunken King was Nito, and Old Iron King was Gwyn, obsessed with fire.
That leaves Vendrick, being the Lord of Men. Getting all the crowns forms a crown that prevents hollowing on the Bearers of the Curse so, basically, it could be an eternal King.
Still it's not a cure tho. BUT you're immortal, AND no hollowing will happen so, you have the centuries to come to fix that... maybe.
>>345263225
yes........But only through background messy lore
You can play all 3 games and make less than a handful of connections between them.
>>345256851
DS1 makes it pretty clear that as the dark lord, your meant to become as powerful as possible, until your the last living thing, and then even you will die.DS2 ruins that though.
>>345280870
>Final boss is giantdad
>he can stunlock you to death
>>345280870
>dlc final boss is gank of all meme builds from DS1
also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bvO4fc-pW4
>>345258213
Does it fucking matter if its 'canon'.The lore, and story isn't compatible.It doesn't make sense together, and 2 ruins a lot of shit in 1, if you want to follow the canon.All i give a shit about is quality.
>>345252869
He became Michael the convenience store owner and you got to fight him in the DLC
>>345258567
>humanity and dark are separate in DS3
What
>>345282627
I'm sorry anon, but I have to tell you, DaS2 makes more sense than 3rd.
You just had to find the secret path togit gudand in the DLC ending everything's clear.
>>345282912
When did i mention the third game?I haven't even played 3.
>>345283057
Then gtfo you don't have an opinion
The weak have no voice
THE WEAK HAVE NO VOICE
He fathered humanity, each of whom has a shard of the Dark Soul inside of them. This is why the Serpents tell you that you're his decedent, because all humans contain the Dark Soul.
Odds are, he died like any other human. He didn't keep the Dark Soul to himself (like Nito) or spread it amongst a few specific followers (like the Witch and Gwyn). So, it's likely that he wouldn't have the same deific powers as the other lords, or any kind of immortality (unless he became undead).
All the Four Lords had disparate souls in opposition to one another, and the Pygmy was tied to the cthonic darkness that seems to spawn all things. This didn't become the Abyss until the Fire (which seems to represent a natural process of shattering the past stasis) separated Light and Dark. This, to me, suggests that the Pygmy and Manus are different entities just based off of timing.
Another important note. Stasis vs. Change plays a huge role in the first game's narrative. All four of the Lord Souls seem to play a tug of war for stasis and against stasis, but in the end - the Dark Soul represents the stasis of the past before Fire, and the other three souls represent the change brought about by the fire. So, in the end, the other three Lords would probably want him dead anyway.
>>345267398
>>345283116
>I don't like his clearly correct opinion
>QUICK I MUST TRY TO OBSCURE, AND SILENCE HIM
Fucking spaz
Better question
What the fuck was The Pursuer?
really makes you think
>>345284210
Presumably someone who worked for Velka. He tracks down sinners or something
>>345284210
A guy who pursues.
Does anyone else want to see more of Pontiff Sulyvahn?
>>345281985
Sunken King isn't Nito, the Rotten is Nito. Gives his soul in NG+.
>>345287129
And how do you get to the Sunken City? Past the Rotten.
>>345286102
Hopefully no. Guy was legitimately an evil character in a game of mostly questionable characters. Him and Aldritch can fuck off, we pretty much know everything about them.
>>345287983
>And how do you get to the Sunken City? Past the Rotten.
How the fuck does that prove anything.
>>345284210
>>345284803
>>345285617
Pretty sure on of the descriptions refers to it as being a creature made to hunt down bearers of the curse and try to hollow them out before they can do anything.
Likely made/sent by Nashandra while she tried to figure out how to open the Kiln.
>>345256174
To be honest, From really went out of their way to make us believe that, seeing that Solaire was the only NPC you could bring to the final battle, and even then it was a "secret".
>>345288103
The Great Souls are passed down from each cycle to the next. It's already confirmed that the places we go in the DLC are Kingdoms from the past, with the Old Iron King and the Rotten being near the entrance to two of them.
Even the Old Iron King sort of confirms it, considering his souls is still the demon's, and we get Gwyn's soul from him.
>>345270604
>Dark sword
>silver knight shield
>pve
>uploads gay videos
Please fucking kys you autistic faggot.
>>345288390
>Implying Solaire didn't climb Archdragon Peak after the lighting of the fire to find his own Sun and realize dragons could take him even closer to great incandescence.
>>345287129
So? He wasn't Nito, Nito died, his "soul" was reborn in the same manner as how Link or Ganondorf are reborn, they don't remember anything from their past lives, nor are they the same person but the soul, will or "destiny" is pretty much the same.
The pygmy shattered his soul into thousands of fragments, granting each to his fellow hollows. Manus was his first son.
>>345288756
Would be cool, but the description of the items pretty much confirmed NK was the firstborn and was banished for siding with the dragons, so no "mind erase" or "Godhood taken away" took place as far as we know, unless Solaire somehow remembered what happened before and out of sheer will, took his godhood back or whatever but I doubt it.
>>345288997
When do they state that Manus is the son?
They tell you the viallagers from Oolacile disturbed the primeval human, they never state pigmy, but seeing that the pigmy was the progenitor of humanity it means he's Manus, right?
>>345287129
Rotten isn't Nito. He just has Nito's soul.
It's like reincarnation, same soul, different being. It's also fucking retarded and thankfully completely ignored in Dark 3.
>>345253595
>>345253850
The Lost Sinner isn't the guy. It's the Chaos bug that crawls into his eye. Are you all retarded?
>>345289359
Manus is the first human.
The pygmy wasn't human, he created the humans. So Manus was the first human created by the pygmy.
Pymy was the original dark lord, he spread humanity and created humans andgave them the power of the dark sing that would activate once the fire is at an end.
He died and was buried out by oolacile then went wild on them spreading the abyss
His parts spread into the Dark Queens that were to take down the kingdoms that could oppose the natural order of the world (Age of dark)
Basically pygmy was an agent of destiny that existed to make sure the age of dark came about but gwyn was afraid of it and prolonged the light.
>>345252869
I dunno, I forgot
>>345262565
Nope.
The description of Nashandra's soul in SotFS talks about the soul of "the old one of the abyss." The old ones are the original holders of the Lord Souls, but the pygmy is never connected to the abyss, Manus is.
>>345289729
Fuck you guys i thought it was funny
>>345259948
I don't think we encounter the real Ornstein in the entire series.
DaS1, Ornstein is an illusion created and controlled by Gwyndonlin's magic.
DaS2, Fanboy imitation.
DaS3, We find the armor of the real Ornstein, but the man himself has probably long since died after finding and serving the Nameless King.
>>345290797
Its okay anon, I found it funny.
>>345290907
That's dumb though. We get his soul in DS1. He's not an illusion.
>>345291046
Everything else in Anor Londo is an illusion. Why not Ornstein? How else could he have left for Archdragon Peak in DaS3?
>>345291275
Smough isn't, so I don't see why Ornstein would be.
The probable answer to your question is the devs didn't really think shit through and time is thus once again convoluted.
>>345289449
Chaos bug is speculated to be a surviving bit of the bed of chaos from Lost Izalith though isnt it?
>>345291414
> Smough isn't, so I don't see why Ornstein would be.
Because DaS3 explicitly says he left Anor Londo. That is a fact. The only part left to explain is why we still see him.
Look, if every silver knight we fight, every giant knight, every winged demon, and every gargoyle in Anor Londo is just made of magic but are still capable of giving souls and drops, why couldn't Ornstein be too?
"I'm right and the devs are wrong" is not a real answer. He's an illusion.
>>345255164
>fertile pygmy
>>345291869
I'll put it this way. When DS was released, there's no way the devs thought Ornstein was an illusion, so as far as I'm concerned, he wasn't. Maybe in some timeline the chosen undead never killed Ornstein and that translated over to DaS3's time line, but in Dark Souls 1, you kill Ornstein.
>>345292084
> When DS was released, there's no way the devs thought Ornstein was an illusion, so as far as I'm concerned, he wasn't.
What are you talking about? People have been theorizing he was an illusion since DaS1 due to the fact that everything else in Anor Londo is an illusion. The fact that you never thought of it doesn't mean the devs didn't consider it.
>>345292419
But Smough isn't an illusion, so clearly some stuff in Anor Londo wasn't an illusion.
>>345292084
> Vader isn't Luke's father. There's no way they thought of it in the first movie.
this is what you sound like
>>345292698
Come the fuck on, its very obvious there was no story planned beyond the first Dark Souls, unlike the first Star Wars. Don't even try to pull that shit.
>>345292419
Ornstein and Smough are real because you can kill Gwyndolin before fighting them.
If they were illusions they should have died with xir
>>345292419
>everything else in Anor Londo is an illusion
Only the giants and demon gargoyle things, silver knights and painting guardians stay. I don't think either of those were illusions either, I assumed the giants were powered by souls from Gwyndolin and the gargoyles were somehow controlled by him, so both went away when he stopped trying.
>>345292982
>you can kill Gwyndolin before fighting them
Post proof. Also show that it's night time, and all other illusory characters are gone.
>>345293196
You can kill him, but the illusion remains, because for gameplay reasons you need Gwynevere to give you the Lord Vessel.
>>345293363
Wouldn't the Lord Vessel just be sitting there if Tittymonster disappeared?
>>345293469
Yeah, I guess the devs didn't want people to miss the lore dump too. Probably an oversight actually, but whatever.
>>345293363
>>345293584
Then being split between gameplay or lore, you have two choices here. Either it's an oversight/laziness issue for the sake of gameplay, or his illusions simply remain even after he's dead. If it's the latter, then we don't know that it's the real Ornstein in that scenario. You guys pick what you want, I don't really care, but this isn't definitive proof that he's legit.
