Is Dwarf Fortress the best game ever made?
Yes.
Don't even need a maybe or to repeat the question.
Probably
>>344990595
Most definitely yes.
>>344990595
yes
Eh, everyone's gonna have their own favorite sandbox to end all sandboxes.
For me it's kerbal space program, for most it's minecraft, for the extreme nerds it's this...
But yeah, I could never get into dwarf fortress. Tbh I couldn't even figure out the controls
The game is a ton of fun, and lets me indulge in my autism full-throttle. But really only playable with some of the add-on applications and tilesets.
>inb4 fucking casual REEEEEEE
>>344991212
Yea I love ksp but the amount of depth and content in dorf fortress is ridiculous. Can't believe two guys made it on their own. Also if you use lazy newb starter pack and the wiki it's not that hard to get into.
I like to dig to the lowest cavern level and build a fortress down there, where things are dangerous :)
>>344990595
It could be, only with a graphic improvement, better UI and mouse controls.
>mods
I don't want to install 30000 mods.
>>344991645
/thread
sup
>>344990595
>indie pixelshit
>FPS: 29
yeah definitely the best game ever made LOL
>>344991645
There are mod packs that are easy to download and have everything you said.
>>344991645
lazy newb pack-google it, motherfucker
>>344991831
Including UI and mouse controls?
Cause UI and mouse controls aren't in the "beginners first dorf fort" mod pack the /vg/ general supports
>>344991525
Yeah that's the thing with auteur projects. As a great man once said "it might make perfect sense to you but it's entirely possible that you're mad"
>>344992119
>>344991924
Lazy newb has mouse controls, and the ui is fine on its own, its kind of hard to use at first but when you learn it its way more efficient than most other games
>>344992289
There are some painful menus though. Usually only when you get into tighter military organisation
>>344992375
Yeah,i found dwarf therapist to be really useful, especially when dealing with loads of dwarfs
>>344992289
>and the UI is fine on its own
no it isn't
the UI is the single worst thing about the game
you say "it's kind of hard to use at first" but what this really means is "it takes 2-5 hours to begin to really wrap your head around the menus and by this time anyone who isn't an autist has abandoned the game and found something more rewarding to play"
any game that takes this long to learn the controls for is terrible in design and doesn't deserve anyone defending that design; I'm not saying don't defend the game mind you just that you have no right to defend the trash UI aspect of the game.
>>344991735
this is the most autistic game ive played
>>344992829
Actually I'll go back one step
There is a single redeeming point to the UI in dorf fort and the only valid reason to argue in favour of it: It keeps casuals out
It is good at keeping casuals out
That's the single redeeming point it has
HOWEVER if this is your basis of arguing for it you are scum
proper scum like you find at the bottom of a pond or defending pedophiles in court
fuck you.
Still valid though.
>>344992289
The UI is the worst thing about DF though. Having to read a 100 sentences about a single dorf is cool for the first time, but not when you're dealing with a 100 of them and try to find out their moods.
>>344992289
when people say "proper UI and mouse controls" about dorf fort what they mean is "proper UI with mouse controls (for the UI)"
Since a couple updates ago decorations hit their peak
Now performance and war/diplomacy need to be dealt with
>>344990595
If it had a better UI I'd definitely say so.
>>344992829
>>344993362
The UI doesn't need mouse controls. It needs coherence and logic. Ideally playing dorf fort would be like using vim. Right now it's like using vim except with your keyboard shifted slightly to the left so you keep accidentally hitting the wrong key and have to double check what you actually want to press.
>"Beyond Quality™"
What did they mean by this?
So how's masterwork? I tried it once and embarked on a glacier, but one of my dwarfs turned out to be warlock and melted my whole fortress. I like the simplification of leather and additional mobs but some other design choices seem questionable.
I this sense it is: If I was only able to play one game for the rest of my life, it would be DF. Mainly because there is so much to learn and do, it would stay challenging and entertaining for longer than any other game I can think of.
>>344991761
Bait
>>344999330
Thanks for the (you)
>>344990595
That fort has a trash problem. Dump all that stone littering the floors and smooth/engrave the floors and walls.
>>344991272
This. I can't play DF without the Rapist at least.
>>344990595
It's just a crafting simulator. DF has no depth, all you learn are keybindings for more crafting.
Seriously, DF is a puddle compared to the ocean that real games offer (you know, games with, say, movesets). All you do is craft more mugs and designate more piles. Games need to be judged through their mechanics, not through cascading lists of stuff they claim to be doing.
So many of the responses ITT reek of summer.
>>344991735
This is true autism.
>>344990595
Come back when ti has a remake with modern graphics.
>>345000046
it's fine
>>345000063
>modern graphics
Dwarf Fortress already taxes most computers. Add modern graphics to it and no computer in the world currently would be able to run it.
>>344992829
It's just remembering certain keystrokes. Are you so stupid you can memorize a few buttons?
>>345000046
it's really not that bad. it LOOKS OH SO BAD. but when you play it, its relatively straight forward and easy to navigate.
I mean there's a lotta detail to think about but really, the daunting thing is the interface not the autismal depths.
>>344990595
Honestly no. But it is a great game and probably in the top 15.
>>345000497
objectively better systems have been in use almost since the birth of the home computer
why do you hate progress anon
why do you cling to an archaic mode of interface
>>345000371
Lazy newb comes with good graphics for what the game needs and runs fine
Doesn't fix the UI though
>>345001131
He said modern graphics idiot.
And the UI is fine.
>>344993362
Look what happened to minecraft when it went outside /v/ and the normies and children found it. Now it's justbloat
>>345000945
Sometimes games are fun despite their flaws.
>>344999879
My biggest concern is the unavoidable fps death.
>>345001834
I haven't played the latest version yet but from what I've read in /vg/ it's a 15 fps increase in long running forts.
And when you're hitting 30 fps at year 3, getting an additional 15 fps is huge. Like 45 is bad but it's not unplayable. 30 and under it starts taking way too long for shit to happen and a single year will end up taking multiple hours with not much happening in them.
>>344990595
Yes
>>345001834
You can avoid fps death quite easily.
Keep your pet population under control and set a limit on your dwarf population. Boom no more fps death.
Anyone still waiting for their favorite mods to get updated I need my Shyguy fortress damnit
>>345001334
Modern Graphics is a relative term
Gnomoria is about as modern graphically as a dorf fort clone gets and it's really not much more advanced than Stonesense
Unless you wanna argue that the term modern graphics means it needs to look like Stonehearth; which is splitting hairs
What you can't (reasonably) argue is that modern graphics means it needs to look like call of duty; that's bullshit and you know it.
Also fuck you the UI is objectively shit
>>345001664
that's not defending the flaws
and if the flaw does make it unplayable for most people (including select turbo autists) it's a pretty fucking big flaw
>>345001443
casuals dont ruin games unless the dev is already a shitty person
Minecraft went downhill because Notch was a lazy hack; not because casuals found it
>>344993480
use dwarf therapist for that. and read the manual it comes with, it really ups your game
>>345002013
The graphics in DF are fine. As is the UI. Quit being a faggot.
>>345001982
I usually set max pop to sub 100, and I cull my pets often. Thank toady for gelding, I can't bear to slaughter kittens
>>344997246
Its alright but some of the mods attached to it are pretty shit.
>have a decent sized fort with about 5 years of age
>suddenly my dorfs start to transform into random shit and the forest gets regularly set on fire
>find out its some shitty mod that adds magic that nobody has bothered to update is the cause of it
>have to modify game files so i can play masterwork without the said mod
>>345002206
do you enjoy being objectively wrong?
>>344990595
No, but it could have been if they made it with a decent graphics so that it would be easier to understand what's going on.
That game is very complex and well made, but it's not really user-friendly
wish I could actually run it without instand fps death
At this point though, adventurer mode is the ebst I can manage
>indie pixelshit
>its text based
have your eyes checked anon.
>>345002264
No not usually. Its a good thing I'm not wrong in this case.
Don't you have summer homework to do?
>>345002315
>Graphics are more important to me than the complexity of the underlying systems
>>344997246
>>345002256
the mod comes with its own launcher which allows you to turn shit like magic and warlocks off.
you can play it with just the leather and bone mods together with some performance tweaks if you want
>>344991272
Rapist is a must but tilesets confuse me since I learned the game in ascii.
>>345002546
This game has been in development since before the pixels aesthetic became popular though.
>>345001834
Logical consequence of the aforementioned design. It goes forward until it bloats and croaks. It can die at year one or 2 million, the gameplay is the same.
>>344999998
You were so close to being heard, anon.
>>344999999
>>345002656
He's right though. the game is much better with sprites
I'm not a grafixfag, I don't give a shit how ugly they look, the "memorize what letter represents what" system is just silly
>>344995140
>the dwarves are laughing
>>345002934
If you don't know what something is or can't remember just hover the cursor over it and it'll tell you.
This isn't rocket science.
>>345002674
I should have probably worded myself better there.
>*Have to modify my save file to play the save without magic and shit
>>345003041
It's about being instantly recognizable m8
"it's possible to find out what this thing represents" shouldn't even be an issue that comes up, just use sprites
>>344990595
The graphics are too fucking stupid looking
>>345003206
Cause everything is instantly recognizable with sprites.
/v/ has had threads in the past with
>sprite
>what I thought it was
>what it actually was
>>345002584
so you would say that a keyboard based text interface is objectively equal or superior to a keyboard and mouse based graphical interface?
and that ASCII graphics are objectively equal or superior to pixel/tile based graphics?
This is your stance? Am I getting this right?
Kys.
>First fort
Winter comes, dwarves die of thirst
>second fort
Get agriculture running, die from goblin raid
>third fort
Get military and traps running, also textile industry
So next I want to master pets, cattle, cheese, wool, leather, eggs and all that stuff.
>>345003530
Neither is objectively superior or equal.
That's not what objectively means.
I reiterate. The UI and graphics are fine.
>>345003647
How do I do it?
>>345003491
100% having to memorize everything vs. 10% seeing things wrong
>>345002934
I can't see shit on Screenshots with tilesets because I learned in ascii.
It's just a matter of habit
>>345003771
>100% having to memorize everything
No one that actually plays DF has 100% of the tiles memorized.
Because there's a lot of shit you just plain never see.
Like a zombie Giant Sperm Whale.
>>345003697
ASCII and text interface genuinely are objectively worse to modern systems though
They're not even equal in some situations; they are ALWAYS an inferior option graphically
The ability to enjoy a game despite them does not make them equal or even defend-able; it makes you a weirdo.
This is why girls dont talk to you anon.
>>344990595
Can I play this as a single character roguelike? I never really played it, but read about this functionality on a forum, years ago at this point.
>>345003961
You have to memorize each tile that you want to immediately recognize without hovering over it, idiot
>>345004007
Learn the difference between Subjective and Objective. Then come back and we might have a reasonable discussion.
>>345004130
Which you do rather quickly when it's important. Because you constantly see it.
>>345004130
And memorizing a dozen to two dozen things is hard for you?
How did you make it through school? Oh right you're probably still in school.
Why is the soap industry so ridiculously complex to set up?
THere's like five or six different steps all requiquiring a different profession and workshop
And the final result is this low value product with limited usefulness except for hospitals.
Meanwhile you can just train up your cook to legendary and buy entire caravans for the value of a couple meals.
>>345004284
You're so fucking obnoxious it's ridiculous
The point is that shouldn't even be something you need to do since you can whip up some sprites for all that shit in 2 hours
>>344991735
The thing is, Aurora isn't even fun. You spend days working out how to play the game, and then afterwards you find out that its ostensible complexity is all there is to the game. its so fucking boring.
>>345004385
Uh huh.
Get ready for summer school.
>>344992119
Don't use mouse controls for DF. Default controls take some adapting to, but once you do, they are really pretty good.
>>345002934
To each his own but personally I like that system more. It makes it easier to imagine things my own way.
>>344990595
Probably. I wish I had the patience to learn it though.
>>345004571
>people who can't play dwarf fortress
Literally how, it's easy
>>345004171
I'm aware of the difference
You might note I said "always an inferior option graphically" and not "always an inferior option"
this is because there are some situations where ASCII makes slightly more sense than a tileset like optimization or distant zoom recognizability (which can in turn be dealt with by better monitor/tileset resolutions)
What there is not is any situation where ASCII graphics are measurably or quantifiably better as graphics; they do not convey anything other than a simple symbol and cannot be advanced to do so.
similarly text based user interfaces are measurably worse as user interfaces because every function they can have can exist in a text and graphical interface with the addition of the mouse while the reverse is not true
You are literally defending an objectively worse system. I am not misusing a single word in the previous sentence.
>>345004007
>>345004171
>>345003697
>>345003530
>>345002584
>>345002264
>>345002206
>>345002013
>>345001334
>>345001131
>>345000371
There's no real reason for the UI overlay to be the way it is, with the only iteration of such being addons.
a number of key presses can be remade into clicking icons and you know it.
For that matter, what's to stop them from using a tab-variant for mouse interactible UI bar?
>>345004368
too bad you cant buy soap
Yep!
In fact, the original design of the game was that it was going to be a city-builder, where when you abandon your city, you can explore it as a 'dungeon' as an adventurer, but the build mode ended up being way more popular. The adventure mode is still given just as much attention (if not more, to be honest) as Dwarf Fortress mode.
By the way everyone,Stop replying to elitist faggots, holy shit
>>345004884
Except you are.
>>345005060
meant for
>>345004123
>>345004893
you should learn what words mean before you use them
>>345004953
That's my point, if it were up to me I'd buy like 5 bars a year for hospital. But the way it works now if your dwarf gets an infection he's basically fucked if you didn't take the time to micromanage soap production
>>345000169
I don't know
>>345005060
>not throwing fluffy wamblers
enjoy being only able to kill stinky goblins faggot
>>344991212
>liking df makes you an extreme nerd
normies
pls
go
>try out Dorf Fort for the first time few years ago
>get really into it, spending few weeks playing nothing but DF
>now all other management games feel too simple / seem to have nothing interesting for the player to do
>already tired of playing Dorf Fort
>>345005241
There is no real reason for the user interface to be the way it is, with the only option for it being add-ons (stonesense, dwarf therapist, etc)
A number of key presses (any/all you do) can be remade into icons that you may click to perform the same task.
And, for that matter, what is to stop them from having one of the TAB variants (map, info, map/info) be made into an interactive user interface via mouse clicks in the way mentioned above?
>>344991212
>tfw Animal Crossing
Friendly reminder there is an applicable dichotomy for defending dwarf fortress UI
Either
A) you are defending it because you cant recognize a bad system when it's in front of you
or
B) you are defending it because you do know better but you want to keep casuals out
If you are defending it because of A you should seek better medication for your aspergers
If you are defending it because of B you are measurably a cunt by the majority of society's (subjective but still populist) definition and you deserve to be a nogf /r9k/ kissless virgin for the rest of your life because there is a real poison in your heart that you need to excise before it festers into suicide. If you can't fix it for whatever reason please kill yourself faster; it will be doing society a favour. We don't need your mental illness in the gene pool.
>new map
>generating history
>after 120 years FPS drops to 0 and nothing happens
help
>>345005907
wait it out or alt+f4 and try waiting it out again
if waiting it out doesn't work you may need to buy a new PCor wait it out longer
>>345005369
Have you tried modding it? Its really simple and fun
>>345005853
>Friendly reminder, if you have fun playing video games you deserve to die
>>345005446
I blame the autistic fanbase that defends it
Any autistic fanbase that defends valid criticism against a game/dev really. They're all just as bad as each other.
>>345006367
>Friendly reminder if you're a normie hating r9k permavirgin you deserve to die.
>if you're an autistic fanboy seek help
seemed pretty clear to me when I wrote it
>>345006412
I don't blame anyone, honestly.
The only thing I complain about is the lack of an option, similar to how the actual game used to be ASCII only and got graphics tilesets, so, too, is the UI a similiar debacle. They could keep their keybinds, whatever, as long as mouse interaction also becomes a thing.
It's not 2006 any longer, shit's not hard to do.
>>344990595
yes
>>345006412
A large portion of the fanbase knows the ui is shit and unintuitive. Toady has said that he will not address it until he is finished adding systems. This means pointing out the ui is shit is pointless, as he already knows. We work with what we have until he foxes it.
>muh UI
>muh tielsets
>muh mouse
>muh make it more casual friendly
naw get fucked
the only thing that needs to be fixed is multithreading so it doesn't bloat after 10 years and you end up with forts full of children who will never grow up
I actually love playing adventure mode. Toady seems to screw up the balancing every update. Last update zombies were constantly sprinting superwrestlers. This update all the night trolls are killing machines.
There needs to be an option to turn off boogeymen without turning off all nightcreatures.
>>345007069
complain more so it gets moved to higher priority
it should be the highest priority really; it's a very important system
>>345006918
Gee, it sure is dark down here
>>345007270
Don't travel alone at night, or the bogeymen will get you!
>>345007275
>it should be the highest priority really
Nah get fucked casual.
>>345007550
kys
>>345007275
Yeah, except having to redo it every time he adds a new system would be stupid. He wasn't a programmer when he started this project, and admits parts could do with a re-write. I also know he isn't concerned with attracting more players right now. So he probably doesn't care about the reception of the ui. I'm assuming it's pretty low on his list, and complaining won't change that.
>>345007803
but it's the only system in the game that has no defendable reason for being as bad as it is
it's just poor craftsmanship to leave that kind of blunder in for this long
This game would be fine with the graphics it has, being purely functional, if it had a UI that relied on common sense and a goddamn tutorial, not a useless help page and a link to the wiki. It is absolutely maddening doing trial and error with this game the first time around, when your only instruction in-game is "winter's coming, caravan in the fall, make food, strike the earth." Well how do I do that? Why are chopping trees, mining, and gathering plants in the designation menu while other commands like building workshops in a whole other menu? Why is carving a wall from a rough hewn wall in a separate menu from just building a wall from scratch, when you end up with basically the same thing? I put a trade depot in my fort where it was safe, but whoops, looks like the wagon can't get there because the passage isn't 3 tiles wide, and the caravan won't haul their shit there from the wagon because they haven't 'arrived' yet. Why do I need to have a manager to create work orders, when I should reasonably be able to do that without having to press q and scroll over a workshop first? There are 1000 things you can do with this game, but the interface is so clunky that most of the barrier to entry is simply figuring out what the fuck you're doing.
>>345008078
I agree it is an objectively bad ui, and people who defend it are just elitist. I'd guess working on the ui is boring for toady, so he doesn't. He works on the shit he wants to work on, and leaves the shit he doesn't until later.
No.
It's unfinished, unpolished, unoptimized and barely unplayable. I've spent three days learning controls just found out the game isn't really that great. The depth of micromanagement is nice, and world generations is honestly best that exists to this day, but what's the point if I spent hours trying to figure out if I encountered bug or just didn't understood some feature.
Toady should take notes from devs of Factorio, hire more people to help him and stop adding pointless shit.
>b-b-b-but he will fix everything after he adds all the features!
Not going to happen. He can't finish this alone.
>>345008329
>tutorial
whoa there buddy I've been shitposting in this thread about the UI for hours but that goes too far
you need to fuck off as much as the people defending it
alternatively I'm responding to bait and you need to fuck off because you're elitist scum who genuinely deserves death for the betterment of the genepool and the human race
either way
fuck off
>>345008668
That would be good advice if he wanted to make a saleable product, but he doesn't
this is a forever-scale project that he gave up a math professorship for because he is a beautiful mind uber-autist and he wanted to make a self telling lord of the rings game
there is almost no doubt he'll die before the game is done, because the game won't ever be done, and the guy doesn't ever want it to be done
I feel like diving back in. Can someone post the "tips and tricks, do's and don'ts for the complete noob asshole" picture? I've forgotten everything.
>>344991645
>mouse controls
That's for plebs that think that'd be an improvement while it would only cripple you
The menu navigation is a real fucking pain, but once you get used to it after using it for a bit, you navigate it easily and fast; faster than anyone would ever do with a mouse.
It sucks at first, but you only benefit from it in the end
>>345000945
>objectively
Nigger fuck off
Mouse control would be absolutely abysmal for navigating that shit. It would only help plebs at first but would be crippling in the long run
>>345008929
arrogance holding back artistic potential in action
dont get me wrong I dont agree with the vast majority of the poster you're responding to's post but he could definitely stand to hire someone with patreon donator money to make the game the best it could be
I dont want or think he should have anything to do with monetized updates; just that he could probably harvest enough tipjar money to get some other sperg to help him even for a short time
>>345008668
>barely unplayable
This is the reason why you're unable to actually enjoy it. User interaction within dorf fort is borderline impossible, but that's why real dorf kings use tools like Dwarf Therapist. In-game building tools and order management is good enough, worker management isn't. Learn to third party utility.
Doft fort is a battle fought in designs and wikis. You don't play dorf to plunder riches and bitches, you play dorf fort to grind goblins between gears.
You could always play Evil Genius instead.
>>345008821
>shitposter complains about shitposting
I'm not even sure who the trolls are anymore.
>>345002546
>indie pixelshit
It's ASCII you dumb cunt.
do you guys think if dorf fort had nice controls and and UI and a better teaching of mechanics without wiki would this game be as popular as it is ?
>start fort, build library
>retire fort, start an adventurer
>acquire a necromancy book and drop it off in the library at your retured fortress
>retire our adventurer, start up the dort again abd have your dwarves read the necromancy book
>have fun with necromancer dwarf population
>>345008668
> I've spent three days learning controls
>I've spent three days learning that if something says "x:do thing" then pressing x will do the thing
Jeez, I can't imagine how long it takes you learn how to play a game that doesn't constantly display button prompts.
>it needs better graphics
Anyone who thinks this should hang themselves.
Yes, the graphics are dogshit. But guess what, no one plays DF for the graphics. People play DF to sature their immense autism.
Updates are slow as it is. Imagine that with everything needing special sprites and other shit being made for the countless of things that are added.
Let Toady just focus on what he's good at. Fuck graphics, 3rd party tilesets and minor graphic packs are all this game will ever need
>>345009256
see
>>344991735
aurora is still an incredibly difficult game to learn but it has lot of menus and those menus would be much harder to navigate if it had a purely text interface
objectively.
>>345008078
Just accept that the game isn't for you and move on with your life.
>>345009272
Yes I used the Rapist.
It's good example how the complex things can have simple solutions.
>>345009648
I was reading wiki and watching youtube videos. How else you should learn DF? Going in blind? Please teach me.
>>345006918
What game?
>>345009306
a shitpost does not mean an argument is invalid
merely that it has a spam-like quality to it or is circular in nature
it is possible to simultaneously be a troll and
>objectively
correct through this enlightenment.
Peace be upon you.
>>345009821
Dwarf Fortress
>>345009821
Darude Sandstorm
>>345009750
This game is for me.
The UI is not for me.
I desperately want access to this game.
I will not compromise and become the kind of autist who can stand such a terrible interface.
>>345009905
Oh I thought it was that weird text adventure fetish game.
>>345009702
>navigate
You keep using that word.
You make me wonder if you've actually ever played DF
If you did, you'd know that people don't "navigate" the menus with the exception of when they started. Going through shit with quick keystrokes is something you learn rather quickly, even though it's a pain at first. You don't "navigate"
>objectively
Reminder that you're arguing about a subjective experience/measurement here. You can't count "hardness-points"
>>345009768
You should learn dorf fort by going in with a plan. Like, start out with a picture in your head that you want to implement. Try implementing it.
When fun, do it again.
The wiki is a great place for dumb dorf designs that you can try. When you run out of things to try, come back in a year and check out all the new strange "features" that you can try out.
>>345010049
>This game is for me.
It is not.
If you don't have the autism to learn the shitty UI for a couple of hours, you don't have the autism to appreciate the game's depth (which requires just as much if not more autism to comprehend and utilise in the gameplay)
The UI is not even a problem after getting somewhat experienced. I don't even look at the menus anymore (barring shit like the military menu, the only menu that is truely a problem)
>>345010049
So you are unwilling to accommodate. You should try to change your attitude before anything else.
>>345010068
Someone is just being a meme with the complex combat system in the pic.
>>345010128
learned autistic skills when a non-autistic system has been around since the 80s is not something to brag about
objectively is the correct term; an antiquated system that started being phased out in the 80s is not something you should be defending
>>345010378
see >>345005853 and follow instructions
>>345010128
I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
As someone who plays Dwarf Fortress frequently, yes, you need to navigate menus. Off the top of my head, the status menu, the millitary menu, the medical menu, and the units menu all have confusing aspects to them and go a few menus deep. I think you're just arguing semantics.
>>345010434
why change my attitude when I have objectivity supporting my opinions?
I am right
you are wrong
why should I change to accommodate your terrible taste and toadys lazy development
yours is the same argument that says minecraft is fine and notch did nothing wrong.
>>345010474
>see >>345005853 and follow instructions
>literally "if u hold opinion different from mine you're lying to urself"
>>345010639
>I have objectivity supporting my opinions?
>objectivity
>opinions
>>345000371
>Dwarf Fortress already taxes most computers.
Dwarf Fortress taxes SINGLE THREADS on most computers.
And Toady is not as good a programmer as you think.
>>345010639
tl;dr I WANT IT I WANT IT
>>345010049
Then you will never enjoy the game. Flinging shit in this thread will do nothing to change Toady's mind. There are reasons why he works the way he does. You don't have to agree with them, but it sure would be nice if you didn't have to turn these threads into a bitch fit whenever they pop up.
Alternatively you could get over yourself and learn the fucking game. It's daunting at first yes, but there is a reason why games like this have hotkeys. It's because pressing b C w u u u u k k k enter shift + enter is way fucking faster than clicking through a bunch of menus to build a wall. Once you get a hang of it it's second nature.
It inspired some neat stuff.
>>345010821
my opinions are not objective
my opinions are based on objective fact however
your opinions are subjectively shit because you disagree with my objective fact supported opinions
to an outsider it is very clear I have already won this debate
all my evidence is very clear
your argument is based on you being a fanboy and disliking non-fanboys
to disagree is futile
we are the borg
>>345010580
The status menu is very straightforward
The only bad part of the medical menu is that spreadsheat of medical statusses
Military is dogshit and everyone agrees
>I think you're just arguing semantics.
Those are not the only menus. All the keystroke menus for checking out buildings, placing items, designating, etc. are also menus (and are also the ones people are most often complaining about)
The most glaring issues with the UI are:
>the military screen
>the inconsistency how "list" menus are navigated (some with -+, others with arrows)
>>345011140
Kinda unrelated, but what is everyone's opinion of rimworld? It seems to be the closest thing to a dorf fort with an actual UI and graphics
>>345011193
>my opinions are based on objective fact however
that would be called a fact then, not an opinion. you are wrong.
>>345011140
toady has already said the UI is on the to do list
and on that day I will shitpost harder than ever before in every dorf fort thread I can find
>>345011341
I haven't played it. It looks pretty good, but all I can think when I watch people play it is that it's just a shit version of Dwarf Fortress. Plus it's kinda expensive compared to DF.
>>345011512
>he thinks UI update will be a massive overhaul + mouse support
>he thinks it'll be more than straitening out the inconsistencies and reworking the badly designed menus like military and medical
>>345011341
great because of the sci-fi setting.
bad because no z levels. Even like 3 z levels would be great.
>>345011341
strategy wise its very simple
it has the same kind of fun as dorf fort but it's fairly easy to win (and there's a "win condition") once you git gud unless you play on ironman or bullshit difficulty (which has terrible scaling)
there's still plenty of mods and content to add flavour but also far too many that casualize it
>>345011512
Cool. See you in 20 years.
>>344991645
>>344991724
>muh UI
Grow up you dumb plebs, the UI is fine
>>345011804
>Rimworld with a Z level
>Making massive bunker complexes loaded to the brim with auto weapons and other sorts of traps
>Nuclear fallout happens
>Surviving in a literal vault at that point
Oh yes, this pleases me
>>345011512
Shitpost because? You are acting as if everyone wants the UI to be shit and not that people who like the game have come to terms that it isn't getting better in the foreseeable future
I could never get into it. I made a fort with about 8 mil worth and I survived a single siege before losing interest.
It has all the right mechanics but it doesn't matter when it's packaged so terribly. The actual experience of playing the game consists of fighting against the broken dwarf AI and controls and the game requires a third party client to minimize constant pausing and micromanagement.
My one good memory is when I locked all of my dwarves in an underground room and watched the whole community die of starvation, dehydration, infighting, and miasma. The last surviving dwarf was allowed to leave and wander the halls of the fortress. He was completely insane and attacked the newly arriving immigrants.
>>345012234
>>345012280
>axedwarf vomits
>axedwarf vomits
>axedwarf vomits
>axedwarf passes out
>>345005270
can you repeat the question?
>>345011512
>the to do list
Toady will die before he finishes that list
Am I the only one who thinks Dwarf Fortress is kind a overrated. Sure, the whole procedural generation of the entire world is impressive, and the game is really fucking complex, but actually playing the game just isn't that great.
As soon as you kinda figure out how to play the game you can't lose anymore. Unless you get fucked over by the RNG.
I wish there was some system in play that just threw stuff at you to give you some more incentive to continue playing to do stuff. Sure, for some people the game just being a tool to build a fortress is good enough, but I want a little bit more game in my game.
>>345011327
>The status menu is very straightforward
I strongly disagree
I think you should stop acting like an eliteist, I don't see the point in pretending like everything is easy in DF.
>>345012670
epic, simply epic XD
Only 90's kids will get reference!
Screencap this
>>344990595
best game for autists maybe
>>345012693
>As soon as you kinda figure out how to play the game you can't lose anymore
Spotted the guy that's never played a tundra game or a haunted desert game.
>>345012693
It's true once you know what you're doing you can cheese the game in many ways. Only challenge is what you put on yourself.
>>345012694
>I think you should stop acting like an eliteist
I am?
> I don't see the point in pretending like everything is easy in DF.
I'm not.
The menus are hard as fuck to get into.
However, there's no better approach to it. It is the most optimal thing. Mouse support would only cripple people in the long run.
You'd do yourself a favor during arguments if you'd stop pretending everyone is an elitist.
>>345012826
I want to be honest with you about something, anon. I've never gotten to HFS.
I've built a magma pump stack, but I've never been so deep.
>>345012693
You gotta set challenges for yourself. Once you know how to play it, embarking on a heavily forested peaceful flat area with a river is like choosing the easiest difficulty.
Lately I've had some fun playing "peasant fortress"; No digging below 1 Z-level, wooden buildings aboveground, economy based nearly entirely on farming/cooking.
Only problem is building multi-level buildings is a pain in the ass since you can only queue up floors to be built if there's something below/next to them, anyone have any tips?
>>345012919
>Only challenge is what you put on yourself.
Yeah, but I don't like that. I would much rather prefer a game that is constantly challenging, with spikes here and there, than a game that is literally only challenging when I ask for it and even then just randomly decided if it wants to be a fair challenge or be almost completely impossible.
>>345013378
You should go back to school, anon.
Hell, so should I.
>>345011341
Haven't heard about it before. Looks pretty neat.
>>345013642
>human
>has a dwarf face
U
>>345013378
Well DF is a ever-WIP sandbox simulation. Maybe if they had a strategy mode with an AI actively seeking to destroy you. But what you get is what the world was generated as.
>>345013378
>Yeah, but I don't like that
then play something else
>>345005339
>throwing fluffy wamblers
Holy shit anon, we don't need to kill bronze colossi.
>>345011576
anything is kinda expensive compared to fucking dorf fort
>I stop shitposting about the UI being crap for an hour
>thread dies
really you should all thank me for carrying the thread to this point.
>>345012797
malcolm in the middle begain airing january 2000
so close
>>344991212
fuck off retard
To be fair fighting boogeymen is possibly the most intense experience I've had in most games nowadays.
Especially if you actually stand a chance.
