>I play games for the story
Playing games for the story is like eating 5-star restaurant food for the dishes and silverware. You're completely missing the point. The plates, bowls, forks, spoons, knives, and other eatware is just there as a delivery system for the part that actually matters: the food.
It's a waste of time to try and make a game's story good. It'll never be a story as good as can be conveyed through film or a good book, so why bother with that mediocre crap? When I want a good story, I read a book or watch a film to get the best experience possible. When I play a game, it's to get the best thing possible: the best and most fun gameplay. Trying to make a good story is just a waste of time and assets.
Didn't read lol besides there's already another food analgesic thread up
I don't eat pancakes with my pasta.
>>344952226
THICK
What a horrible analogy. Five star restaurants are about far more than just food. You fool.
>>344952226
those pancakes are gonna be dry as shit. like eating sawdust.
>>344952226
wow, is that good? if it is, maybe I should try making my pancakes like that
>>344952226
>starting off with a food analogy
Didn't even bother reading the rest, fuck you.
I wouldn't eat those pancakes but I'd probably fuck them.
>>344952364
Paying for "the experience."
May as well burn a $100.
>>344952226
i once have been to a real michelin star restaurant, i was 6 yo and ordered fries and chicken nuggets
Honestly anon, that's not going far enough. You have to discard "story driven games" completely, even if there's gameplay in it. The industry has become obsessed with cinematic movie games, and the only way to exorcise the cancer is to completely reject it from the host body.
That means games like Uncharted, Final Fantasy, Bayonetta, God of War, Xenoblade, and etc? They all have to go for having too much story.
/v/ is hypocrite enough to shit on story focused games because of the hate bonner of /v/ for indie devs, but the fact is most of you fags grew up playing metal gear, Final fantasy & silent hill games that no one bought for the gameplay alone.
>>344952693
Jokes on you, I never touched Silent Hill and Metal Gear, and I consider Final Fantasy to have aged like rotten milk.
>It's a waste of time to try and make a game's story good. It'll never be a story as good as can be conveyed through film or a good book, so why bother with that mediocre crap?
objectively incorrect. there's nothing stopping games from having a good story besides the fact that most game writers are fucking hacks. granted, even the best video game writing is usually about on the same level as a "really good anime", but we'll get something incredible some day. something that has a great story without sacrificing gameplay.
Oh my god these pancakes I need them
You autists get so caught up on semantics.
I don't give a fuck whether it's called a "game" or a "visual novel" or an "interactive movie" or an "interactive experience" or a "movie within a game". If it's entertaining, I'll "play" it.
Adding interactivity to a story can greatly boost the experience in some genres (e.g. Horror).
>>344952226
THIQQ!
>>344952693
The difference is those games also had great gameplay despite the heavy story focus so you ended up enjoying both aspects because they weren't fucking walking simulators
>>344952923
>implying that there aren't some games and some anime with really good writing and/or stories
I hate pretentious self-loathing fags who try to play down things they enjoy to impress people on 4chan.
>>344953130
>Metal Gear Movie
>"gameplay"
Sorry anon, watching 8 hours of cutscenes doesn't count as gameplay.
>>344953130
Then the OP should be about walking sims and not "playing games for the story".
For example, I played Ghost Trick and The World Ends with you because I was intrigued by the story premises, and stayed for the fun gameplay.
>play game
>first time playing
>someone sees me skipping cutscenes
>they get legitimately upset everytime
Kek.
>>344953256
Epic troll but the metal gear series is pretty widely agreed to have very fun gameplay.
>>344952364
I would even say that most rich people don't even go to 5 star restaurants for the food.
>>344953456
Yeah, by game journalists, who think gameplay should be more "cinematic".
If Metal Gear had good gameplay, every person in the industry would hate it. It would have a metascore below 70.
>>344952226
how does one make a pancake that thiccc
>>344952226
You can be serving the best fucking steak in town, but no one's gonna care about it if you're serving them on disposable plates and telling them to eat them with their bare hands under a dirty highway.
The food metaphor doesn't work because presentation of the food and decor are key points to restaurants, almost as much as the food is. Food critics don't talk just about the food quality, but how it looks on the plate, the choice and design of the plate, the atmosphere of the restaurant and so on.
>>344953378
>retard skips cutscenes
>WHERE DO I GO
>WHAT DO I DO
>WHY DOESNT THE BOSS HAVE ANY WEAKNESSES
>The plot of this game makes no sense!
Every single fucking time
You guys are pretty slow if you don't realize that OP is just posting a strong opinion so you'll pay attention to his thread that is actually intended to be about thicC
>>344952226
and if you think restorants should just shove the raw ingredients in your mouth with their hands you are completely missing the point
also
>food analogies
>>344953623
If your game is reliant on cutscenes to tell you where to go, then you've failed basic gameplay design.
>>344953586
rice cooker
>>344953536
yeah you're right a few measly journalists gave Konami millions of dollars
underage
>>344953536
But the gameplay in metal gear isn't cinematic at all. For the most part the games let you play however you want. You've clearly never played a metal gear game in your life.
>>344952226
What the fuck even are you trying to say?
>>344952226
Imagine being so fat you looked at video games and saw food.
>it's a /v/ makes an inaccurate food analogy episode
>>344953697
BRILLIANT
>>344952226
It's important to RPGs you autistic American.
>>344953687
Or maybe they just expect that the people playing aren't ADHD riddled 7 year olds. Thank god game devs don't cater to you retards.
>>344953623
>just play game and do fine
>don't care about plot
It's not that hard.
>>344952226
It's the funniest shit seeing people on /v/ make asses out of themselves by posting food analogies.
so, Dwarf Fortress is eating filet off of a dirt floor
>>344952226
Please stop perpetuating old G4 memes.
>>344952226
>Food analogy
>>344953826
>gets upset
Haha it's just like I said, every time.
What is the food analogy of video games?
>>344953715
I'm sorry, what was that anon? I couldn't hear you, the game was playing its cutscenes too loudly. I couldn't see the gameplay at all.
>>344953014
This so much. People on this website are retarded.
>>344952226
Dishes and silverware is console and controller respectively.
If we're going with shitty food analogies then playing games for the story is like eating food for the recipe.
>>344952226
Not like there's a lot of mechanical masterpieces lately.
>not recognizing stale old pasta
nu-/v/ is real
>>344954025
WoW.
Only stupid and fat people use it because they don't know better. Has no substance and it's always the same.
>>344954039
That's not what "cinematic gameplay" means you absolutely brain dead faggot. That's just called a "cutscene". "Cinematic gameplay" refers to games like the last of us or uncharted where the game is basically just a cleverly designed interactive cutscene where you have to follow a very specific set of set actions or the game doesn't continue.
>>344954176
Yeah well the jerk store called
>>344952226
>its a "/v/ uses a food analogy to explain vidya logic" episode
bueno
>>344954335
>"Cinematic gameplay" refers to games like the last of us or uncharted where the game is basically just a cleverly designed interactive cutscene where you have to follow a very specific set of set actions or the game doesn't continue.
And that's what Metal Gear is. They offer you a bunch of solutions to a very basic problem that can just be cheesed by the simplest of solutions, thus tarnishing the gameplay by way of "dominant strategy" syndrome. And even then, the gameplay itself is just quick time events and futonning people and listening to MORE cutscenes and listening to people talk every 5 seconds, and of course that cringeworthy 40 minute ladder climb from Snake Eater that was supposed to be "deep and symbolic" but it just ended up being boring.
Tell me again: how is this somehow better than Uncharted?
Got me there Anoon that's why Visual Novels on steam are fukn garbage, and only Triple A developer's should make games
>>344952226
>is like eating 5-star restaurant food for the dishes and silverware
But that's exactly the reason why people eat at a 5star you retard
>>344952226
>first it was unicorns
>then it was rule 63 of the egg thief from spyro
>then it was shy guys- i mean, gals
>next it was judy hoops
>next it was the artwork of the thickass backend of a car
>now i wanna fuck pancakes
What is this place doing to me?
What's next, parking meters?
>someone tries to make an epic poem with a decent story
>ok
>someone tries to make a play with a decent story
>ok
>someone tries to make a book with a decent story
>ok
>someone tries to make an opera with a decent story
>ok
>someone tries to make a movie with a decent story
>ok
>someone tries to make a comic book with a decent story
>ok
>someone tries to make a vidya with a decent story
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>344954910
>epic poem
Aren't all epics by definition supposed to be a decent story?
>>344953496
probably because there is no such fucking thing as a "5 star restaurant"
>>344952674
I bet they were pretty good then, at least your 6 years old self enjoyed them.
>>344952226
>trying to go paleo
>see op's pic
>>344953256
You're no even trying.
>>344954910
>Story, poem, book, opera, movie, comic book
The objectives with these are to make the most of their medium. Telling a story is supposed to aid the medium in all of them. A poem, for example, should be written to utilize the format it's being put in. stanzas, haiku, what have you. If the story doesn't allow it, the story is garbage. Same with comic books. An idea that doesn't translate to well articulated imagery isn't a good comic book, period.
And that's how video games are. The story is only supposed to be there to enhance the medium's strength: interactivity. If you can tell the story through the gameplay, more power to you. But a cutscene is the antithesis of a video game:it's taking control away from the player to watch a boring, non-interactive movie.
Now do me a favor and go play Uncharted 4 and tell me that more games need to be "cinematic" just like it. And when you inevibitably vomit from the terrible gameplay and 5+ hours of cutscenes, you'll come crawling back here and regale us with your tale.
>>344955129
I know you're trying to be clever but you're retarded.
>>344954025
This is like a panic attack in image form.
>>344953623
I have a 12 years old"stepbrother" and he's like this, makes me mad on the inside, that impatient, lazy fuck won't even try the way to solve even the stupidest things in videogames or real life, don't know how he will end up if his behavior doesn't change.
>>344953940
People who critisize food analogy threads are like cereal without milk.
>>344955315
>>trying to go paleo
you're an idiot
>>344952226
Food gameplay food gun food story food silverware
>>344952226
I ain't fucking eating at a restaurante if they throw my super expensive food on a paper napkin and tell me to deal with it
>>344953882
I want to fuck those flapjacks
>>344954542
no you are nuts, cinematic stuff like there is only 1 way to kill a bunch of enemies or enter a new area, in MGS there is the lethal way, non lethal way, melee,stealth or not stealth, etc.
>>344955983
Where does his dick even come from?
I actually agree, most of my favorite games barely have any story and it is why Dwarf Fortress will always be the greatest game ever made.
>>344955315
They only look appealing, they were made in a rice cooker and don't taste as good as actualpancakes
>Implying plating and presentation don't matter
>Implying clean plates and cups and silverware don't matter
I aint eating shit offa paper plates or out of dirty ass glasses, get yo nasty "Bought McDonalds and eating it out the bag on a dirty coffee table" ass outta here
>>344956013
all of which involve mostly non-interactive cinematics. And they all involve you having to listen to cringeworthy voice actors and get codec calls which last or hours, and that's before you even meet any of the "bosses". If you could even call them that.
if i can get through a Metal Gear title without a single word being uttered by either my codec, my partners, or the enemy team, then i would consider the games decent. But too many cinematics ruin the soup, as they say.
>>344956013
So this is how they conquered the Pacific
>>344956038
>Dwarf Fortress
>No story
Every time I've played there has been a story, lives played out before my eyes, death in vain and for glory. Dwarf fortress is one of the best games because the story IS what you play
>>344952226
Nobody sane plays games for the story. But a good story is a good bonus and can elevate a game above its peers.
Gameplay comes first, but why shouldn't the game have some writing going on? The only time a story is detrimental is if it pulls you out of the gameplay too much.
>>344952226
OP Never played Spec Ops: The Line.
>/v/ in charge of food analogies
>>344956287
I think that's what he meant. It's lack of cutscenes and non-interaction is how you should tell a story.
>>344956287
Even better then, Toady managed to turn story into a gameplay element.
>>344956360
Where you killed all innocent people until you find out it was in his head?
>>344956793
That was where you killed people until the game yells at you for killing people
>>344952226
I and the entire Telltale games catalogue have to respectifully disagree.
Story can play an immense part on making a game good and enjoyable; the medium offers a wide array of options that can be found nowhere else and provide excellent storytelling opportunities. Hell, without story the entire point and click genre would never have been born.
>>344956205
>>344954542
>>344954039
Shut the fuck up you're fucking retarded, the metal gear games offer plenty of guns and tools to mess around with in gameplay for both lethal and non lethal runs, MGS2 and especially 3 offer plenty of ways to clear a room of enemies or sneak past them or even knock them out in unconventional unique ways with all its tools and guns.
You've never played a metal gear game in your life they only codec call you after a segment of gameplay or when you're in the clear. The cinematics are all entertaining and you can skip them you colossal faggot.
Fuck off and never talk about metal gear again.
>>344952226
playing a game for the mechanics is like being a retard hitting 2 rocks
>>344955129
Doesn't need to be Michelin stars. I think there is a guide that actually gives 5 stars.
>>344956887
Oh.
>>344957015
>the metal gear games offer plenty of guns and tools to mess around with
Do they offer me a tool that lets me skip the 8 hours of cutscenes, as well as the 2 hour pre-load that's forced to happen so the game can actually play them (MGS4)?
>cinematics are more entertaining than gameplay
I'm afraid you've entered the wrong medium, friend.
>>344952226
All you're doing is saying retarded shit about how you think people should approach games the way you do and making me hungry in the process.
Reminder that everything in every game should be in service of telling some meaningful story, otherwise you're basically playing with a toy, which is fucking gay.
I play games for the adventure.
>>344957636
>Wikihow for testing the freshness of butter
But why
>>344957636
btw, I'm not saying games need to be movies.
Katamari Damacy has a fantastic gameplay driven story, for example.
>>344957636
>Reminder that everything in every game should be in service of enhancing the gameplay
Fixed that for ya, Mr. Neogaf.
>>344952226
THICC
>>344952226
i do like immersive stories in games but only as a side factor
making games specifically for story is seriously a waste.(not counting vns)
>>344957809
no
That's like saying everything in a movie should be there to enhance the visuals.
Whats important is audience involvement. If you have a game with amazing gameplay but shit staying power you're going to have a bored audience.
>>344952584
who wouldn't. bet it'll feel like a titfuck
>>344954335
Thats a horrible description that can be applied to all games.
I dont consider TLOU to have "cinematic gameplay" at all, it had plenty of combat. Uncharted 4 on the other hand was filled with "cinematic platforming" (the ledge you just grabbed broke but its all cool because you grabbed another one below it) and barely any enemy encounters. They literally cut down the amount of enemies from the previous games to 70%
>>344954542
Thats another retarded criticism though. In MGS theres a way bigger chance to fail and you're absolutely in charge of everything that happens while playing, whereas in UC, like I said, you're simply given the "illusion of gameplay" with sections that are basically walks through the museum
>>344958045
>That's like saying everything in a movie should be there to enhance the visuals.
No offense, but that analogy sucks. A movie is a combination of multiple elements, culminating in a movie that looks good. If it doesn't look good, why even bother going to the cinema?
A story helps set up the atmosphere, camera work and music help set the stage, and the actors bring the movie to life. Whether it's the fast paced action of Star Wars episode 4-6, or the dramatic masterful use of camera angles in Citizen Kane, these things all come together.
>Whats important is audience involvement. If you have a game with amazing gameplay but shit staying power you're going to have a bored audience.
Amazing gameplay acts as its own staying power. In ten years I imagine myself enjoying Tetris and Pac man and Dwarf Fortress, for example, while "cinematic" """"experiences"""" like TLOU and Uncharted will long be forgotten for being mediocre in gameplay.
>>344957636
Also, for further clarification, I'm using "story" in a very broad sense.
By story, I just mean something that says something about something (preferably something interesting about something interesting in an interesting way)
>>344952226
That analogy is actually spot on and proves why story is important. The sorts of people who appreciate 5 star restaurants believe in something calledeating with your eyes
>>344958306
>Thats another retarded criticism though. In MGS theres a way bigger chance to fail and you're absolutely in charge of everything that happens while playing,
That's only if you compare it to a "game" like Uncharted. If you compare it to a real game like Contra, or Gradius, or Super Metroid, they have almost no story and let the gameplay tell the story. Whereas in Metal Gear, you have to skip 10 hours of cinematics to actually get to the interactive part.
>>344953014
Correct
>>344952226
Why not demand both? In today's culture there are so many forgettable games that you can invest real time in the ones that grab you both emotionally and with gameplay.
>>344953378
You piece of shit, this shit triggers me so hard
>>344958512
Hey fucking retard, eating with your eyes refers to how the FOOD is assorted on the plate. It have very little to do with the dishes, which in 5-star restaurants are often very plain so as to not distract from the FOOD.
Fucking moron.
>>344954905
What car do you mean?
>>344958536
Funny because MGS has more gameplay time than both super metroid and contra
>>344958703
>demand both A+ gameplay and expensive 50 hour story
>game developer spends 500 million dollars on it
>game costs 100 dollars plus DLC and season pass
>only sells 50 million copies and doesn't make enough money back on the investment due to voice actors asking extra fees, taxes, and marketing
>company goes bankrupt
>>344958325
The problem is that you seem to think in ends of the spectrum only. Almost all 10/10 games fall in the middle ground for reason. That's because of the involvement the player has in the game. If you have no spark outside gameplay the gameplay will prop it up but will feel stale. So many games out there could be fixed with a tiny gimmick and some better player involvement.
That and dwarf fortress is easilly a story driven game.
>>344952226
post moar thick
>>344958856
I can't see the gameplay over this trash >>344954039
>>344958927
>That and dwarf fortress is easilly a story driven game.
That's only because the game tells the story through the gameplay. That I'm perfectly fine with. Infact, I'm going to make a bold claim: Super Metroid alone has a better story than every single Metal Gear game COMBINED, because of this.
>>344954025
When I saw this image I got really mad
Then I started laughing uncontrollably and pissed of my roommate
>>344952226
I think storytelling aspect of vidya is underappreciated.
Movies can have 3 hours max to tell a story, and that's stretching it. Vidya can tell grand and massive stories, you are limited only by technology, budget, genre and ability to plan out a big story that wouldn't hurt the gameplay.
>>344959054
You can you're just a fucking contrarian.
Hell I'd understand your complain if you wouldn't be able to skip cutscenes but you totally can, so why the fuck would you even complain?
Bloody hell, video games are a lot more than just "games" now. Gotta find a new word for them, the game part throws people off.
>>344958759
You are getting really specific with your analogy now. It doesn't hold up. The truest part of your analogy would then be playing a game for the controller and the console / computer because those are the delivery system. The story is then like one or even multiple layers of tasting and enjoying your food.
>>344958924
>500mil development cost
>$100 price tag + DLC shit
>only sells 50mil copies
>50mil*$100 = 5bil
>company goes bankrupt
You fuckers are so fucking stupid.
>>344956038
I hate being a fucking millennial, I grew up with good graphics and east to understand gameplay, now I'm so fucking spoiled I cant enjoy games like this
Kill me please
>>344958759
The reason plain plates are used is because minimalism is the modern preference. High end plates used to have patterns on them. But you wouldn't want stained, cracked and chipped plates right? Analogy still works.
>>344959178
>Vidya can tell grand and massive stories
So why tell them behind the veil of non-interactive cutscenes? I can get the gist of Metal Gear just by going to youtube, and I wouldn't miss a damn thing.
>>344959428
>>344959291
>eating with your eyes
>focus is still on the food
>food = gameplay
The analogy stands. You're both fucking retarded.
I know we have come full circle now and most of vocal /v/ shits on Dark Souls, but I think it is doing a good job telling its story. Not saying the story is good, but the way it is conveyed is a very good use of the interactive medium.
>>344959178
The thing is that you have to be clever about how to tell stories in games. When it comes to narratives, most developers just instantly look at what works in the next big audiovisual medium (film) and try to emulate that, because there isn't really a fixed "game story theory" out there while film theory is a thing since about a century.
The way you tell a story has 90% to do with controlling what is on the screen in an audiovisual medium. In a video game you can't just do it the way you do it on the silver screen, because the camera in games also servs a gameplay purpose. Wrestling that away from the players all of the time would be terrible, so the devs have to be smart about it and design levels in a certain way that players see the things they are supposed to see without being forced to.
>Playing games for the story is like eating 5-star restaurant food for the dishes and silverware.
You're wasting your money if you're eating at a 5-star restaurant with plastic utensils.
>>344956997
>Entire telltale games catalogue
>Includes that absolute piece of shit Minecraft story
Get the fuck out
>>344959459
Only played MGS2, but the gameplay of that is actually fun. Don't really care about the story all that much.
>>344959402
>5 billion
>4 billion goes to the publisher for a "bonus"
>100 million goes to Nolan North and Tara Strong for guest voice acting
>200 million goes to the marketing budget, since they had to lay that sweet dough on IGN for their 10/10 score
>500 million in taxes, regional fees, and translating the game in every languae
>500 million spent in porting the game to every possible console and platform
Like I said, bankrupt because it didn't sell enough.
>>344952607
go cook a frozen steak if the food is literally all that matters
Food analogy vs car analogy - which is better?
>>344958924
Do you wanna build a strawman? This just isn't the case with all games. Have you ever played a game like Super Meat Boy? Final Fantasy? River City Ransom? Many games have great story and gameplay without even having voice actors.
>>344959515
Look up what "holism" is and return.
And the analogy doesn't stand because by your analogy playing a game with a shit story is like eating food on a plastic plate and drinking out of a used solo cup.
>>344959054
>That is only because the game tells the story through the gameplay.
This. Make the story bolster gameplay, not the other way around. That is why i am so fond of the Castlevania series's story.
Spoiler:Dracula dies.
Spoiler 2:Everytime.
Spoiler 3:Noone cares.
>>344959728
Same reason why Mario is so popular.
spoiler: Princess is kidnapped
spoiler 2: It was bowser
spoiler 3: you have to jump on goombas to save her.
The gameplay is what gives Mario his edge.
>>344959459
>>344959532
I just pointed out that you can tell a book length story you wouldn't be able to tell in a movie. The problem is that people don't know how to do it properly yet.
>>344952226
I want to eat those pancakes with my dick
>>344960002
Wouldn't that be extremely painful?
>>344959925
I know you said that. Still, when you tell a story, it should enhance the gameplay, regardless of genre.
>>344959925
And I argued that you can't just do it like that, because while games may have the length of a book's reading time, they don't have the amount of control over what you are reading/seeing at any given moment, so the actual controlled story is usually not a big part of a game's playing time.
>>344960039
yoU wUold be sUrprised what someone can do with enoUgh determination.
>>344960202
You are a male of noticeably above average build.
>>344959515
What? You totally ignored my point that in your analogy to eating 5 star restaurant food meal the story is not the plate and the silverware. It's more analogous to a part of actually eating and tasting the food. Of course how can you have a serious discussion with someone who throws around the word "retarded?"
I don't know about you guys, but I wouldn't mind eating a steak off of a paper plate if the steak was so damn good that I'd eat my own hand if it got covered in the seared juices of it.
>>344958924
>splatoon fan in charge of not being retarded
>>344956205
Dont you have better things to do than shitposting
>>344960584
You'd eat from slut's butt too.
>>344960662
What do you really think the answer is going to be
>>344960746
It's not a question but a reminder.
>>344960662
>the guy who says "story is more important than gameplay" is accusing others of performing the roasty toasty shitty posty
>>344952226
Somebody hasn't played 999
>>344960381
You missed the point of the analogy.
Food = gameplay; it is the primary reason to play a game
Plates/cutlery = story; it's nice if they're exquisite, but will not detract from the food quality if not
You fucking retard.
>>344956793
>>344956887
The game where the MC Is stuck in hell.
>>344959715
Take your own advice. Even with a holism there's a core to bind all the fragments of the whole.
In video games, that core is the gameplay.
If you're looking for something where the core is the story, go read a book or watch a film.
You fucking retard.
>>344961493
Considering that Spec Ops is just a more pretentious Call of Duty rehash, yeah I'd say it's comparable to hell.
>>344959019
Here you go!
>>344961051
I love 999 but this right here sums it up. I'm going to get all the endings but honestly I prefer puzzles way more.
>>344961505
>It's a waste of time to try and make a game's story good
Directly quoted from the OP. Please don't move goalposts faggot.
>>344952226
I unironically love food analogies
>>344961553
>Call of Duty rehash.
>Third Person Shooter.
If you'd have said AoT I'd agree.
Don't be mad just cause you couldn't figure out the plot anon.
>>344954905
>next it was the artwork of the thickass backend of a car
link
>>344961748
But you can skip cutscenes you've seen. Besides you haven't experienced 999 til you've seen the end.
>>344961856
I know I've played it all day and it's just mind numbing to do those puzzles over again. I'm trying to speed through it for true ending so I can move on.
>>344961767
>discussing analogy validity
>"well the OP said this other thing too; so you moved the goalposts"
Holy shit, you're a fucking retard.
>>344961801
The plot is that you're a grump marine (probably a scruffy gravel voiced white guy) who kills people with guns in a "realistic environment". only at the end the game says "you're a bad person hur dur".
If I want that kind of finger wagging and poor gameplay, I'll play Undertale.
>>344952226
When people say "story" they generally mean narrative.
The narrative encompasses more than the story currently told (the hero and his journey). It means story, the setting it's in, the atmosphere, all the sidestories and NPCs, world building, history. Saying that all of it doesn't matter to you is fine, if you want to be a savage or a fighting game faggot. Saying that it's irrelevant and unnecessary to games is retarded. They all contribute to your overall enjoyment of the game. Or do you think you can forgo music and audio too in lieu of gameplay?
There's many more factors to consider to a video game than purely "gameplay". You don't want to see a Ferrari with dents, scratches and metal-coloured either.Even as bad as that analogy is for people who probably will never drive or give a shit about cars
>>344962014
The thread is about whether effort should be put into stories. Maybe you should have been clearer on your position.
Maybe you shouldn't have debated me if you read my posts correctly, having mentioned "chipped, stained and cracked plates" as a continuation of the analogy.
>>344962010
Fair enough. The bad ends aren't super exciting and are just VN fluff to be honest.
The sequel fixes the having to repeat the puzzles issue, as well as having to fast forward issue.
You're using a flowchart right? Playing VNs without flowcharts is not very fun.
>>344962245
The narrative should be second to, and directly serve the gameplay. Otherwise you end up with an overbearing story with some generic as fuck gameplay slapped between cutscenes.
Stories should not be in games, nor should there be an end to games because a game is meant for replayability and mastery/competition. It's why Nintendo brought the downfall of games and singlehandedly ruined a medium. Ever since Nintendo entered, arcades gradually died. Look at Robotron and Tempest and Choplifter. Then look at Mario. You get the gist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMto2HJJSSA
>>344962201
Comprehension isn't your forte ehhhhh?
The entire game is about the MC In hell, literally hell. Well, when the helicopter crashes in the beginning of the game is when he dies and goes to hell.
>>344962481
Arcades fucking suck. Arcade games are fun for about 5 minutes then they get boring.
Going to an arcade consists of wandering between the cabinets until you get bored and leave.
>>344962614
>Arcades fucking suck. Arcade games are fun for about 5 minutes then they get boring.
This is how far /v/ has fallen, everybody.
>>344962374
Yes you fucking retard, did you even grasp the ferrari analogy at the end? Did you even read the post proper? Clearly you would buy a ferrari with a good with shit aesthetics over a ferrari that goes 0 to 100 in 12 seconds. Doesn't mean a ferrari's aesthetics aren't/won't be a selling point.
Your and the others' denial of the two things being a causality and instead saying it's correlated at best speaks volumes about your incapacity to add things together.
>>344962481
Nice pic. Now consider the gameplay:story ratio of super mario bros.
It didn't need an epic tale, just a motive behind the gameplay. It's story is, for all intents and purposes, shallow and dull as fuck; but it augmented otherwise repetitive gameplay by providing an end goal.
You can't honestly tell me that "modern gaming" hasn't gone a mile and a half up its own ass to create "games" that are 50% cutscenes interspliced with variants of the same level design.
>>344962720
I'm not some hipster who mentions arcade games just to be elitist on /v/.
If you really think arcade games are enthralling for more than a handful of minutes then go to some shitty hipster joint and have your no story wet dreams fucking shattered. You'll find that the most fun games there are the NES games put in arcade cabinets.
>>344952226
Paying games without story is like going to Subway and asking the sandwich artist for a sub without toppings, it's bland.
As long as the toppings are good, the sub is objectively better for including them
>>344952226
Nah, that's more akin to people saying that they play games for the hardware. People playing games for the story alone is like people going to a 5-star restaurant for the setting alone. Sure, it's nice and you wont see places like that everywhere, but that's just one part of the whole experience.
>>344962902
I don't want a goal nor an end because that defeats the purpose of a video GAME. A game shouldn't have an end an should have a focus on endless replayability and higher scores for competition. It's why the late 70's, early 80's gave birth to the greatest games known to man. It was surreal creativity born and unleashed to create innovative concepts and new elements to making games more complex yet endlessly enjoyable.
Compare this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOVA2Axxfdk
to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1Ui3ZDX9MI
It's bullshit, and I will forever despise Nintendo for stealing the limelight from Atari and Midway.
>>344963221
That's pretty impressive if you can muster the autism to player robotron for more than 10 minutes. Compare that to the average 2 hour play sessions of NES games.
>>344952226
The problem with this analogy is that the story would not be the silverware it would be the food lumped in with the rest of the "content" of a game. The silverware would be the input method and the activity of eating would be the gameplay and your playing of it.
>"It'll never be a story as good as can be conveyed through film or a good book,"
I believe this has already happened in games with a gameplay focus and can be done better in the future.
>>344962790
Ferrari analogy is a dogshit analogy, senpai.
The main appeal of a ferrari is the aesthetic rather than the performance of the vehicle. Ferrari's are relatively weak vehicles compared to dedicated speed machines.
A story in video games is just a replacement for a score counter. Instead of being motivated to keep playing to add to your score, you're given a narrative for your character's motivation.
You also seem to think that atmosphere is part of the narrative, when in actuality they're separate but intertwined. It's perfectly possible to have a game that's all atmosphere and gameplay with zero narrative.
You think you understand what you're talking about, but you don't. You don't understand it because you're a fucking retard.
>>344952226
But there are games with stories that blow the fuck out of any book or movie.
>>344963336
Here's some education for you, you impudent spiteful little shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw3UJmUMFfE
>>344956287
Yes, emergent storytelling is the unique strength of vidya, hence why it should aim for it as opposed to having a cookie-cutter cinematic story told in cutscenes
>>344963545
>impudent spiteful little shit
The irony in those words. You're the one expressing spite over Atari dying and Nintendo succeeding. You can keep robotron if I can keep my games "poisoned" with story.
>>344963679
Just because linear stories are not unique doesn't mean they are not worth pursuing. That's a pretty big logical fallacy.
It's like saying words are a waste in movies because storytelling with motion is their unique strength. Please don't be like a silentmoviefag.
Oh and emergent storytelling is not unique to video games. D&D and >>>/qst/ would like to have a word with you.
>>344963893
>Just because linear stories are not unique doesn't mean they are not worth pursuing.
Books do them better than vidya ever could, as do movies since that's their whole purpose. You 'can' do it, of course, but that's a whole lot of effort spent on a result that's boundm to be mediocre when compared to the other media that's been mentioned
>It's like saying words are a waste in movies because storytelling with motion is their unique strength.
No, it's more like saying that movies shouldn't aim to have a plethora of sidecharacters, little trivia that becomes important later on, and endless worldbuilding, like books do, because the latter are better geared to the task
You can do it, but the result is likely to be an unsatisfying mess
Every medium has its strenghts and weaknesses, and while you can generally employ them all in similar ways, it's generally better to consider their advantages and disadvantages and act accordingly
>>344963679
Exactly. The game itself should tell the story or just fucking forget it.
>>344963893
How is it a logical fallacy to force a goddamn story into a VIDEO GAME? You wanna watch a movie, go watch a movie. Leave that shit out of games.
>>344962335
Have to use a flowchart, he'll I got Sub twice in a row when I first started playing, I wouldn't have the patience for this shit without one.
>>344963893
>Oh and emergent storytelling is not unique to video games. D&D and >>>/qst/ would like to have a word with you.
Oh and that's a pretty good point, there's emergent story telling in other media too. There's also people playing through mostly pre-constructed D&D campaigns, but for the most card you have a GM making up shit as he goes/having a variety of content planned out, similar to DF. A fixed story just doesn't max out the potential of that medium either
>>344964267
Playing to the medium doesn't mean disregarding conventional storytelling. And video games do have advantages for linear stories that can be used well: player investment, being able to go at ones ideal pace, more direct experiences, etc.
Also your movie counter analogy is flawed because movies are short. The visual medium can handle endless worldbuilding, plethoras of side characters, and little trivia that becomes important later on. TV.
You also have to remember that dorf fort is an insane game. It would cost millions over millions for a company to make.
>>344964495
How is it a logical fallacy to force dialogue into FILM! IT'S FILM. A. VISUAL. MEDIUM. You wanna hear some words? Have your mommy read you a book, or read it yourself. Leave that shit out of film.
>>344964741
By the same argument that linear stories should stay the fuck out of vidya because books do them better, one can say that all stories should stay out because emergent ones are done better by tabletop games.
I won't say linear stories are DA BEST. Fuck absolutes, I think they can be good.
>>344963383
>atmosphere is part of narrative
>no atmosphere is not part of narrative
t. retard with no argument
>food analogy
Opinion discarded
This is why New Vegas is a shit game. Nice role playing and story and all, but it means jack shit because of the shitty combat you're forced through all the time
>>344967087
>I don't understand what it means for parts to be independent, yet have good synergy
How long do you plan to be retarded?
>>344963221
If that the true form of games, then I don't like video games. I find them boring. That's okay, though, and I'd like people to be able to enjoy them if they like them. I hope you get more of what you want anon.
