The right answer is B right?
>>344869806
A. The box has no momentum.
Nope
Does an item go flying when you put a ring around it?
>>344869806
Actually, in the game it IS B.
But in reality it would be A.
>>344869883
The most concise and accurate explanation you'll get. /thread
>>344869930
Actually in the game this wouldn't work because portals can't go on moving platforms
>>344869992
Except there are portals on moving surfaces in the second game
>>344869883
what if I told you it had
>>344869806
It has to be B. The box must cross the threshold of the blue portal at the same rate that it crossed the threshold of the orange one. Since the blue one is not moving, the only way for the cube to cross the threshold at the same rate is for it to gain velocity.
Really makes you think...
>>344869806
We already had this thread today.
Just fuck off already
>>344870505
what is this picture trying to say
>>344869806
>1. A portal can't move from it's original place
>2. A portal can be only placed on a flat surface
>3. A portal can't break the laws of physics of the actual objects
Holy shit it's like you didn't even play the game
>>344870505
>>344870196
Ok.....and?
>>344870985
Trying to say the portal is no different to a door frame passing over something.
The portal isn't a vacuum that sucks things into it, so no movement is transferred
>>344870985
it is essentially the same as OP's pic
>>344871207
what the fuck
>>344870196
And when the movement of the blue portal platform stops, the box should go flying right?
The portal gun was originally invented... why again? Something about shower curtains right?
>>344871207
Actually, that thing that isn't stationary is the block with the blue portal you are conveniently not signaling.
>>344872059
so fat men could enjoy autofellatio
>>344869806
>How does physics behave in this world of broken physics
Nah mate
>>344870505
From the reference frame of the door that's what happening
the cube has a relative speed to the portal thats correct. It doesnt matter in the equation though. The cubes momentum doesnt get influenced so it stays at 0; so A is the correct answer obviously.
If you have problems understanding this just imagine a platform that has a portal on top and on the bottom, exactly opposite to each other. Now let the platfrom fall on the cube. Now you see that no momentum can be created by a portal.
>>344870505
First of all, whoever made this is an idiot. Not for being wrong but for failing to understand how that picture is irrelevant entirely. This picture completely ignores that the complication arises when you consider each 'end' of the doorway being under different circumstances like distance and velocity. If the portals were to remain back to back the question would be simple.
>>344870196
This picture explains it best. The momentum is gained from the force of the platform pushing upwards as it exits the orange portal because at only during that even the box is moving in relation to its environment, it is otherwise stationary. The force on that platform of course being equal to the downward force on the blue portals platform.
>>344869806
Now back to ops scenario it is also a little more complicated but the same mechanics apply. The only time force would be applied to the box would be during the time it takes for the box to begin entering the portal and then emerge fully. Assuming if answer a. simply refers to there being no force applied to the box what so ever it is wrong.
I can't think of any elements I'm not considering but if you can, feel free to point it out.
>>344869806
YOU FUCKERS JUST WEREN'T HAPPY LEAVING WELL ENOUGH ALONE, WERE YOU
>>344874929
but the box isn't moving slowly relative to the portal in OP's pic so i don't see how this is relevant
>>344875216
His picture explains the situation that would need to be present for the answer to be a. and considering the obvious differences obviously supports answer b.
>>344875335
oh ok got it, this thread was filed with retards who think its A for the OP so i assumed that's what he was going for
>>344874321
>Now you see that no momentum can be created by a portal
Portals do this all the fucking time.
Before falling in is has momentum in the dowanwards direction, after exiting the portal on the wall the wall it's lost all that momentum and gained some in the left to right direction. They have the same magnitude sure but thats not the same momentum as before
>this thread again
there's literally no transfer of energy between the platform falling and the box
>>344869883
What if the crusher thing hit the platform its resting on really really hard, like when you slam something on a table and other objects on it jump up
>>344875762
that not what i meant but i phrased it badly, i gotta admit
>>344869806
It's A.
>>344875954
Yeh there is. The two surfaces that smack together will transfer into the box.
Imagine a marble on a table and you push a glass over it. The marble will bounce up.
>>344876173
heh someone actually put the experiment into practice
nice job mate but you missed the part about the moving portal, which the game doesnt allow
anyway since the object isnt actually moving, when it passes through the portal, gravity causes it to slide
>>344869806
Portals don't go on moving platforms.
>Trying to talk about energy and momentum in a universe where those laws are regularly broken
This argument is literally pointless
>>344875117
Wait what the fuck
Why are the portals even here, it would be exactly the same outcome if they weren't there
>>344869806
neither, the cube is resting but it does not have the velocity to move like b either, it should pick up some momentum when suddenly appearing beyond the event horizon, but not much.
>>344876476
He came out upside down that why theres a rotation at the end
Protip: Every one who says it's either certainly A or certainly B has no fucking clue about what the fuck he's talking about.
>>344876476
The blue portal is clearly moving, it's the same as in the illustration.
>>344869883
This
>"The box has no momentum"
Translated to regular english from retard
>"Hi, I have no fucking clue what reference frames are but please let me continue to spout words I picked up in physics before I dropped out of high school."
>>344869806
B.
We can all agree that movement and speed are relative, because we graduated high school right? We don't feel like we're moving even though we're traveling at thousands of miles and hour around the sun because the entire earth is moving with us at the same rate.
We know own that an object that falls into a vertical facing portal will fire horizontally out of a horizontal facing portal, establishing that momentum relative to the earth doesn't matter and isn't conserved. Only the rate of change in position (veloctiy) between box and portal matter.
Thuso in the op image, we see a box and portal approach each other at high speed. That velocity will be maintained. Since the second portal isn't moving, the box will be.
/thread
I still think the golden ball thing is 50%. People say that there's a chance of picking the silver ball first from the silver/gold box and because of that its a 2/3 chance but in the question the gold ball has been picked first so it's irrelevant. Can someone explain how it's a 2/3 chance?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TZd95BCKMY
>>344869806
Portals cant be on moving surfaces, this is established pretty early on in the game
>>344872047
Correct
>>344876641
thats the joke
>>344869806
am i wrong?
>>344877002
portal had some fantastic soundtracks
also the video really makes you think
>>344872290
What do you mean. I mean, we can measure the platform's speed and clearly you can see it's moving
OKAY YOU FUCKING RETARDS
YOU FUCKING KNOW HOW PORTALS AREN'T ACTUALLY EXISTING RIGHT
YOU MIGHT EVEN BE SMART ENOUGH TO FUCKING KNOW THAT IT'S NOT JUST BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T INVENTED THEM YET, RIGHT?I swear to fuck If you faggots actually believe they are possible you are beyond any help and should just slowly boil yourself
WELL GUESS FUCKING WHAT
THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THEY AREN'T POSSIBLE
1. IT CAN'T BE A - RELATIVE TO THE SPACE MOVING BEYOND THE PORTAL THE BOX HAS THE SAME SPEED AS THE PLATFORM WITH THE ORANGE PORTAL.
2. IT CAN'T BE B - THE CUBE NEVER ONCE EXPERIENCES ANY ACCELERATION FROM HIS REST FRAME BEFORE ENTERING THE PORTAL
THE SPACE THE CUBE IS IN BEFORE IT ENTERS THE PORTAL AND THE SPACE AFTER ARE DIFFERENT REFERENCE FRAMES YET THEY ARE THE SAME SPACE
JESUS
FUCKING
CHRIST
>>344869806
Neither, as Portals can't be placed on a moving surface.
>>344876858
Exactly. Everybody mumbling something about momentum is a barely-functioning retard.
>>344877220
>2. IT CAN'T BE B - THE CUBE NEVER ONCE EXPERIENCES ANY ACCELERATION FROM HIS REST FRAME BEFORE ENTERING THE PORTAL
A portal can induce infinite acceleration on objects since it moves them around instantly. Why shouldn't it be able to make the cube move?
>>344877220
>>344876751
You know what's even dumber than being stupid enough to argue about this shit? Being smart enough to know you can't argue about this, and doing it anyways.
>>344877085
Yes. The movement of the portal will not effect the movement of the box. So the answer will always be A
>>344877220
you sound like the kind of guy who doesnt think thing can emitt cold
>hurrr icecubs doesnt emitt cold they MAGICLY EAT UP HEAT
i swear you 4chan hobby scientist has the most fucked up basic view of the world because someone in gray hair wrote in a book then its true
It will get lifted because the cube moves as it's projected out of the portal and the force pushing it out suddenly stops.
>>344877451
That's a very poor attempt at trolling mate
>>344873495
From the door's reference frame, Bob is moving very fast the entire time and the door is always at rest, retard.
>>344877548
>believe in cold fusion
>gets called a troll
go back to your backwards ideology by following concepts decided 800 years ago
>>344877002
it's like Interstellar.
Though, she would most certainly be dead.
>>344877657
I know, that's what I'm saying
>>344874929
>man enters the portal with a little bit of momentum and comes out with a little bit of momentum
>box enters the portal with no momentum but comes out with an enormous amount of momentum
b-fags are literally retarded
>>344869806
In the current state of Portal? A
If we have a box on a platform with a portal above it slowly going down. Portal 2 is on a wall.
If you look at it from the platform side, will it look like it has been sucked into the portal if the portal is nearly over it and gravity pulls on it? Or will it levitate on the other side till its completely there
>>344878140
It comes out with momentum because it's moving out of the portal. Are you saying the box moves without momentum?
>>344878252
>box enters with 0 speed
>suddenly it gains a ton of speed
We all know portals make objects travelling through them pick up speed.
>>344876705
The game automatically adds spin/rotation to keep the camera even for the player's benefit.
>>344878436
And thus momentum
>>344869883
This. The platform has normal and neutral force.
>>344878436
Has science gone too far?
>>344878586
>objects touching each other are the same as two points in space being connected
Have retards become this common?
>>344878650
But objects touch each other in the given example. Are you blind?
>>344869806
Depends how fast your piston is moving.
>>344876290
>The two surfaces that smack together will transfer into the box.
thats just an assumption
the picture doesnt tell us how fast the orange platform is moving. it doesnt tell us what the stationary platform is made of.
>>344878724
When does the moving platform touch the box? The box enters into the portal without ever touching the moving platform
>>344878810
It touches the platform that touches the box. Action -> Reaction.
Also no matter how you put it the box is moving into space there. The whole object isn't magically warped into the second portal, it enters gradually, so it has speed and if it has speed and mass it has momentum.
Alright bfags:
If a portal is on a platform which is moving parallel to the ground (with the other portal on a stationary wall somewhere with plenty of floor in front of it), and you run towards the portal/platform apparatus with an equal but opposite velocity, do you
1.) Come out the other end running at the same speed you were running before entering
2.) Come out the other end with 0 velocity
>>344879060
3. Come out with double velocity.
>>344878997
By the time the moving platform hits the stationary platform, the box is through the portal you mongoloid.
Even then, it's not like the moving platform colliding with the stationary platform would cause the stationary platform to exert a upwards force on the box
>>344876476
Portal 2 has moving Portals.
>>344879243
>By the time the moving platform hits the stationary platform, the box is through the portal you mongoloid.
If you're going with the space theory, the bottom of the box is still touching the platform even on the other side.
>Even then, it's not like the moving platform colliding with the stationary platform would cause the stationary platform to exert a upwards force on the box
But that's literally classical physics.
>>344879424
>moving platform exerts downward force on still platform
>still platform magically pushes up on a stationary object
The box is already exerting downward force on the still platform. Unless the box suddenly increases in mass, it won't fucking move
>>344876872
A portal is a hole. You dont get momentum from a hole going around you.
Here. 20 holes in walls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIvekuIidqc
>>344870196
You are not thinking in portals.
The Up velocity on the right is equal to the down velocity on the left. It's not the box or the platform moving, its the press causing the momentum.
If you retracted the press up once again, the box and platform wouldn't move an inch, because they had no movement at all.
>>344879604
>A portal is a hole.
A hole that connects two different points of space, can induce infinite acceleration on objects and breaks the laws of conservation of energy
>b-but it definitely can't induce momentum on objects because I say so!
>>344870196
>>344871207
The exiting pedestal does not technically move. Relative to the entrance portal (which is moving), the exiting pedestal would appear that it is moving.
>>344870505 had the right idea. Suppose that we're talking about the door frame. The entrance and the exit is moving relatively at the same velocity. You can't say the same about those portals since an entrance is moving and the exit is stationary.
>>344869806 the answer should be A, since the orange portal is moving towards the cube. Based on the entrance-exit theory, it would be similar to slamming a ring on the pedestal; the cube would pass through, but it won't go flying like >>344869909 said. This is because the cube itself does not have any initial inertia; reinforced further by the fact that the portals conserve momentum. "In layman's terms, speedy things go in, speedy things come out."
In order for B to happen, the pedestal should move towards the entrance portal, providing the cube with kinetic energy.
It's all a matter of the momentum in the cube. If the cube doesn't contain kinetic energy initially, there's no way for it to gain momentum out of nowhere.
>>344879837
>induce infinite acceleration
proofs
>>344879179
I mean seriously, what was the idiot >>344879060 even trying to prove?
>>344869806
This is from a thread of some hours ago
>>344879837
No. The physics dont work like that. It's a hole. A Doorway. Even if the two sides of a doorway are in different areas, Momentum is carried by the object.
You clearly dont know how portals work. Just play the games.
How does anyone in their right mind think that A is a proper choice? It literally makes no sense. It would either go flying like in B, or be like A except it would be reduced to the size of a pancake
>>344880004
The answer is B for objects but A for players.
>>344879931
Cube is at point A at time t
Cube goes through a portal to portal at point B, where B is an infinite distance from A
The cube just moved an infinite distance in a short time, thus it had infinite acceleration while its speed went from 0 m/s to infinite m/s in a finite time
>>344869806
>armchair physicists pretending it's B
so many people who didn't even graduate high school in here
>>344880004
>>344880156
Garry Mod's does not work. The problem here is that the box is pushed. It's not supposed to be pushed. It makes no sense that it's pushed.
>>344880210
B is the only good, choice, because regardless of how silly thinking about "what would happen if portals were real", A doesn't make sense in any context.
>>344880171
But did it's speed or direction change?
If an object's velocity doesn't change, there's no acceleration. Doesn't matter the displacement.
>>344880072
>The physics dont work like that
You're retarded. Accepting the existence of portals changes the laws of physics. Your babbling about momentum has no weight since portals don't obey the laws of momentum.
so the question is whether or not a moving portal would give momentum to a stationary object when it comes out the other portal
which we would have no way of knowing in real life terms because portals dont exist
>>344880316
Of course it does. If a hole goes around you, you dont gain momentum based on the hole speed. A hulahoop falling on you does not make you gain speed .
>>344880316
>thing has no force acted upon it
>suddenly gains momentum
yeah no
>>344880325
>Doesn't matter the displacement.
Velocity and acceleration are defined in terms of displacement you stupid nigger. a=x/t^2. The cube has infinite acceleration for an infinitesimal amount of time, then infinite deceleration, returning to zero acceleration.
>>344880414
Of course they do obey the laws of momentum. Everything about Portal was verified. Even the time it takes for the light to reach the moon is verified.
Portals are pretty much just bending space using wormholes. It's the exact same thing.
Can you show me a single place where momentum is not applied or rather, is applied by the movement of a portal?
>>344880414
This is the absolute answer to this
Any serious physicist might consider the two possibilities but accepts that neither can be proved to be right or wrong since these are physics breaking portals, who can say which parts of physics stays the same or not in this universe where portals are allowed
>>344880702
>>344880004
Oh so you're going back to game implementations like a complete retard
>>344879604
If there is speed there is momentum because momentum is speed*mass. Speed is distance moved/time. Is there speed in pic related?
>>344869806
The answer is A.
Portals act as a wormhole. Going through it you occupy two points in space/time simultaneously. If portals gave ANY Form of momentum your body would be ripped to shreds the instant you poked a finger into the portal.
Now, ignoring the fact that portals cannot be placed on a moving object (IE: The crusher in the picture) We must think of it as a normal portal. Thus, it gives NO momentum.
Is the cube moving? No?
THEN WHY THE FUCK DO YOU PEOPLE EVER THINK B IS AN OPTION!
>>344880482
but since we have no clue how portals would work in real life, comparing it to a hula-hoop is stupid
>>344871163
>>1. A portal can't move from it's original place
it's like you didn't play the game
>>344880681
Acceleration is the derivative of velocity. If velocity doesn't change, no acceleration. So if an object moving at 10 m/s portal'd 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 km and came out at 10 m/s, d/dt(10) = 0.
>>344880612
50%, because you've eliminated the third box from being an option?
>>344869806
If we use newton physics it will depend who is the main pivot. If is what we see, then A, if is the cube, them A, if it is the platform its B.
>>344880802
If the cube isn't moving, how did it reach the other portal?
>>344880702
Not the same guy you're replying to but I posted this earlier in the thread, portals simply don't conserve momentum or energy so trying to talk about this question seriously is fucking stupid
>>344875762
>>344875762
>>344875762
>>344880940
really makes u think ...
>>344880482
what if it did though
>>344877220
>I swear to fuck If you faggots actually believe they are possible you are beyond any help and should just slowly boil yourself
>>344880612
50/50?
You have 6 outcomes.
1. Gold ball from box 1
2. Gold ball from box 1
3. Gold ball from box 2
4. Silverball from box 2
5. Silverball from box 3
6. Silverball from box 3.
Since you know you have a golden ball, then it could be 1/3 scenarios. So there is only two possible scenarios. Box 1 or Box 2.
>>344880940
The platform the portal is on is "Moving" While against the rules of portals from the game, if we went with it the outcome is still the same.
thank you for ruining my twitch experience retards
>>344880713
>Any serious physicist might consider the two possibilities but accepts that neither can be proved to be right or wrong since these are physics breaking portals, who can say which parts of physics stays the same or not in this universe where portals are allowed
Yeah, it's possible that if portals were possible the universe might also work entirely differently
You can still debate which one of A or B makes more logical sense assuming portals work and nothing else changes outside of them
>>344880797
The box never moves. Never. It just falls because a hole went around it and place it in another room.
>>344880482
>>344880514
You guys keep saying the box doesn't gain momentum, but from the PoV of someone standing next to the blue exit portal, the box in A WOULD have momentum, specifically as it was moving through the portal. It wouldn't instantaneously teleport to it's resting point outside the blue exit portal, it would move from the orange side of the portal to the blue side of the portal over a period of time. Since it is moving over a period of time, this is momentum. Thus it has to have momentum in A,
>>344880802
The box enters the second portal with movement and there is nothing stopping it from continuing to move. The box is not teleported to the other side, it has to be projected outside as per laws of Portal.
>>344880853
No. We know that's how they work. Saying that "Portals dont work like that in real life" is stupid. That's how they work. If they existed, that's how we assume they would work too.
>>344881154
>The box never moves
Are you implying that the area outside of the blue exit portal is the same as the area in front of the orange entrance portal?
>>344881079
Does it still matter that the upper platform is moving, once the cube enters its portal? From the blue portal's POV, the cube is moving on its own, with no momentum. How is that possible?
>>344880913
>>344881050
It's 2/3
>>344880908
Velocity is the derivative of distance... v = x/s. Have you even graduated high school yet? If we look at the cube between the time frame it takes to teleport from A to B, it very well moves an infinite distance in a finite time, thus having infinite speed as to x/s.
>>344881163
Its stationary, the only force acting on the cube is gravity. Thus, no momentum
>>344881163
From the point of view of an ant standing on a hulahoop, somebody going through it would "LOOK" like it has momentum. But it does not. It's the Hulahoop that is moving.
>>344881154
It moves into space as it leaves the second portal, as it can only go through the portal with speed in the first place. There is nothing to stop it from continuing to move aside of gravity, air resistance and whatnot. There is no reason it would simply stop moving there.
>>344881021
Wormholes look similar, but are a different phenomenon. A wormhole bends space and creates a shorter path between two points. A portal creates a link between two points allowing for instantaneous travel between them.
It would be a very small B, so small you could call it A
>>344881306
But when an object goes through a wormhole, the distance it travels is essentially 0. That's the entire point of a wormhole.
>>344881229
assume being the keyword
its a video game buddy, we dont know shit about how portals would work
>>344881243
You are thinking about it wrong. The box does not move, the doorway moves. And since the doorway make you enter a new place, you just go in that new place.
>Speedy thing goes in
>Speedy thing comes out
A is right, I swear between this and "glass him" I think /v/ is full of retards
>>344881307
>the only force acting on the cube is gravity
An object can't go through a portal without any force projecting it inside.
>>344881306
the entire idea behind a wormhole in the first place is that it makes the distance between two things 0
the cube is not traveling anywhere
>>344881176
As per the laws of Portal there cannot be a portal on a moving surface.
Also stop thinking of portals as giant hallways you have to go through. Its instant, as the platform drops the box is sharing both locations at the same time. Until the platform is flush with the platform the cube was on? Nothing will happen. Once the cube is fully on the other side? Then gravity takes over and it falls over.
>>344881435
>The box does not move
The box is occupying a space. The space being occupied changes. That is the very definition of movement. The box moves.
>>344881317
But the cube MOVES when it leaves whe orange portal. If occupies different amounts of space over a certain amount of time, so it moves regardless of what sort of abstraction you may want to throw into this. If it it moves it has speed and momentum.
>>344881426
No, when an object moves an infinite distance from A to B it moves an infinite distance. That doesn't change even if it takes a shortcut, or disappears and appears on the other end (teleports)
>>344881427
But we use the rules of the video games. That's the fun of it. "Well portals dont exist so hypothetical scenarios dont work!"
>>344881264
Because perspective doesn't matter.
Only what happens to the cube matters.
>hoola hoop analogies
is this the new food analogy because it sounds retarded
Portals can't be placed on moving surfaces.
>>344881632
But it doesn't move an infinite distance. Portals make any two points in space directly adjacent.
>>344881457
The image shows the Orange portal platform in movement, aside from that not being allowed from the games standpoint, that is the movement and method of transfer in the image itself.
>>344881643
>Because perspective doesn't matter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_of_reference
>>344881586
No. The box does not move. That's not how portals work. If a doorway go around you, you dont move, the door moves. Now, the doorway leading to another space would be working the same. You dont move, the door to an another space just make you go through it.
>>344881735
If you have a thing 1 meter from you, and the next moment the thing is at your feet, do you not think the thing has moved?
>>344881541
The box has to move at the very least its own distance once it leaves the orange portal, so it has to have speed. Nothing actually occupies the same space at the same time.
>>344881629
It occupies the same amount of space. Just two different locations at the same time. Portals are not hallways people.
>>344881426
>>344881523
A wormhole doesn't do that. It creates a shortcut between 2 points in spacetime. There is still distance traveled in a wormhole before reaching the other end, be it even a few feet. A portal is something completely different and goes against the laws of physics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole
>>344881629
No. It does not move, it falls, because gravity affected his top side more than his bottom side and so he just went through the portal due to him falling up.
>>344881643
>movement isn't relative
>>344881824
If there was a wormhole connecting the space 1 meter away from me and the space right next to me, then not really. The object is now 1 m from where it began, but it didn't move very much at all, maybe a few cm.
>>344879179
This has to be the case, as otherwise surely you'd just coast the edge of the portal. Running in place.
This becomes even more obvious if you consider the scenario where you run into the stationary portal at a lower speed than the moving portal. How can you ever exit the moving portal when it moves faster than you do if A is the case?
>>344881838
No. The only speed the box has, it falling through the door due to gravity pushing it down.
>>344881784
Doesn't apply to an object going through a wormhole. When dealing with portals the forces acting on the object and ONLY the object matter.
>>344881873
>It occupies the same amount of space
Except it doesn't. Check >>344880797 It varies with time.
Once again, the box can't go through the portal if it has no speed.
>>344871207
this must be a bait
>>344881926
Not relative at what is being questioned here.
>>344881838
It has no speed. the only thing that has speed is the orange portal. Its speed is what pushes the cube through. The cube isnt moving at all, as i said the only force acting on it is gravity. When enough of the cube is outside the blue portal? Gravity will pull on it
>>344881950
Not a wormhole, a portal. If the object changed its position in space, it had to have moved. That's the definition of movement. If you consider things from the portals' view, as if the portals had their own kind of space, maybe you could say the object didn't move much. But in the space you and the object occupy, the object definitely moved, and gained acceleration.
>>344881816
>you don't move unless you willingly choose to move
Granted, this makes sense if you still occupy the same point in space, but the whole thing with portals is that something that moves towards you can actually change your point in space, which means you're moving, whether you want it or not.
>>344881816
Let's say the orange portal only goes down 1/4th of the box. That means 1/4th of the box will be on top of the blue portal. The orange portal then goes down another 1/4th, now covering half of the box. The 1/4th that was on the blue side is now replaced by another 1/4th, and the original 1/4th has to go somewhere, so it goes up. That displacement is movement. You can try to argue that the portal is a doorway all you want, but your argument is just ignorance and ignores the laws of momentum. Learn some science anon.
>>344881824
Without portals? sure
With them? Not necessarly.
For example, if you reach light speed, time stop existing. So even if you travel 50 years and appear 50 years in the future, the travel time was still 0.
>>344882185
>The cube isnt moving at all
Except that it literally moves through the second portal. The cube doesn't just materialize entirely on the other side, it has to move through the portal. If the top of the cube is just at the level of the portal and then a moment later it is much taller, it has moved.
>>344882324
>time stop existing.
"no"
>So even if you travel 50 years and appear 50 years in the future, the travel time was still 0.
So your speed and acceleration would approach infinity, just as with objects being portaled?
>>344882314
That's not momentum. The portal is not "cutting" stuff in quarters. It's just a hole to somewhere else.If you have a doorway going slowly over you, you would still be not moving. Even if the otherside of the doorway has a different gravity pull than you experience on the other side.
The cube is just falling up because 3/4 of his body is being pulled due to gravitational forces. It's not pushed by the movement of the doorway.
What I don't get is how people saying A seem to think the image in the OP is any different from this.
One of your main arguments is the box has no velocity/isn't being pushed/whatever
Surely it doesnt matter if the box isnt moving and the portal is or if the box is moving and the portal is not
If you think it's A, you'll also have to agree that it's A if the platform that has the box was the one to move toward the portal. It's literally the same thing, the only difference is perspective.
>>344882526
Time stop existing for you when you reach light speed. Everything is instantaneous, even if from outside the speed of light, you can still see time go on.
Items being portaled are not moved. Stop talking about stuff you clearly dont understand.
>>344882695
No, they do think it matters becuase "the box has no momentum" in one of the cases.
>>344882695
>cube at rest while a hole moves towards it
vs
>cube moving towards hole
If you think these are the same situations, you should kill yourself
>>344877548
you sound like a dumb science bitch
>>344882695
They don't understand the first thing about the relativity of movement. They literally think movement is some sort of astral property each object has, instead of the rate of change in the distance between two objects in time
>>344882695
Beat me >>344882787 to it.
>>344882695
>box has momentum
>box is what goes through the portal
tell me anon, in the OP is it the portal that gets launched out through the portal or the box?
>>344882790
>Items being portaled are not moved. Stop talking about stuff you clearly dont understand.
Great argument
>>344882841
You are still and a car runs over you.
You move with the speed of a car toward a still car.
Both have the same fucking result. It's the same situation.
>>344882810
A literal soothsayer >>344882937
>>344876997
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand%27s_box_paradox#Solution
>>344882992
More like
Car with a hole drives at you but you go through the hole
>>344882663
Quit talking about doorways as if that has any relevance to the topic. If a doorway moves over you, your position in space is never changed. If a portal moves over you slowly, your position in space IS changed slowly. As it moves over you you occupy a new position in space. Each time it moves, part of your body is occupying a position in space that was already occupied. In order for this to happen, energy MUST be exerted, and you have momentum. Again, this isn't a fucking doorway...
Where do you people even get the doorway from anyway? A door does not create a link to new area of space, it just separates an already established space. Portal = doorway is about the most idiotic metaphor I've ever heard in my life.
>>344882695
Do you know that if the earth stopped moving right now without any slowdown, every single thing would be thrown at 700 meters second to the east? That's called momentum. The box moves, and when the platform is stopped it goes on to the otherside of the hole and keep going.
OP image is the HOLE going around the object. Imagine a hulahoop, if you enter a hulahoop, you dont get thrown at the speed of the hulahoop, you just keep standing there.
If the hulahoop had an entry to another space, then you would just "move" through the other side, without moving. Because the door is moving, not you.
Think of it like the ship of Futurama. The ship does not move, it just move the universe around it.
>>344882073
Seems we have an expert here. Please, tell us how you know so much about the properties of something that doesn't obey the laws of physics. Also, why do you refer to portals and wormholes as if they were the same thing?
>>344869806
C. The portal doesn't work on moving surfaces
>>344869806
If the entry and exit points were overlapped, would you collide into yourself?
>>344882857
Movement requires energy. Energy does not come from nothing. An object at rest will remain at rest unless acted on by an another force of differing force.
>>344883389
>An object at rest will remain at rest unless acted on by an another force of differing force
In this case a fucking portal coming in your direction.
>>344883058
I have seen this thread so many times it's fucking tireing. It's B and there are a few concise arguments:
1; The game is internally inconsistent about the rules for portals. Thus checking how portals behave in-game is pointless.
2; Momentum is relative to reference frame. In the image the portal is moving from the reference frame of the ground. But from the reference frame of the portal the box (and pedestal) is moving
3; The portal acts like a doorway, but the analogy fails when the front and the back of the portal aren't stationary
4; There are already several thought experiments in this thread that shows it MUST be B.
Basically, either portals are internally inconsistent or it is B.
>>344883389
No see, portals don't obey the laws of physics so they do whatever I want them to do.
>>344883179
IT IS a fucking doorway. That's what portals are.
Doorways to other locations. By opening it you simply have a hole connecting A to B. There is no travel time, or what ever between both holes. It just connect.
When you teleport something, the thing does not move, it's just in another place.
>>344883481
This
I'd just like to call everyone here and request that we stop applying the logic and physics of a fucking hole to a portal.
And if you think a portal is literally just a hole, I'd like you to leave this thread and stop contributing
>>344883465
how exactly is that supposed to be transferring the energy from the portal to the box?
>>344883389
Well, we're lucky, because the moving platform carrying the portal has tons of energy to spend.
>>344883289
It does. Ending of Portal 2 have moving portals with lasers going through them.
If portals could not move, then they could not be applied to anything since the EARTH move on it's axis in space AND around the sun.
So yeah, they can.
>>344883465
Nothing actually touches the box though.
There is nothing that transfers energy to the box, the portal that it goes through is as has been said like a doorframe, a hole.
>>344881154
It moves you fucking retard. I'm sure that if you put your face just beneath the portal you'll get fucking punched in the face by the cube kinetic force.
>>344883559
By making it traverse the portal. Do you think transfer of energy can only happen through colliding?
This thread's like a horribly long and inefficient way of accidently teaching people about Galilean Relativity
>>344883556
Can you prove it's not a hole? Since that's what the game tell you they are.
>>344869806
A is right because the box doesn't have any kinetic force
Basically, this: >>344869883
>>344883559
>>344883634
The portal throws you into a different location. The portal moving through you moves you into the new location. This has already been even illustrated here.
>There is nothing that transfers energy to the box
The portal can't change the location of ANYTHING if it doesn't transfer energy. It's part of the nature of the portal otherwise it simply can't exist.
>>344883475
Yes yes I agree. But the most amazing thing is that people who initially think it's A seem to have a fascinating ability to conjure up all sorts of dumb paper-thin "laws" and theories to support their view, I've never seen somebody convert from A to B in these threads. It's incredible how stubborn morons can be.
>>344869806
Why would it be B?
Look at it this way: what kind of forces are applied to the Box? Is there a force to make it move?
Answer: Yes. As soon as the Portal drops down on the Box, the gravitational pull would tug at the part to be shoved through the portal first.
The moment it's through, it will just drop down to the ground.
There is no kinetic energy applied to the Cube, the kinetic energy in this example is the one of the piston with the orange platform. There are no forces to influence the Cube, so how should it be sent flying? I don't go flying either when walking through a doorway, and a portal is essentially that: a doorway.
Now, in the short span of time the piston with the orange portal crashes down onto the platform, the box gains relative velocity to the piston, but that's not the same as momentum.
The answer is A.
>>344876051
Then yes, some kinetic energy would be transferred from the crusher thing into the platform and then into the box.
But it wouldn't be enough to make it FLY out like in picture B. It would still plop out like in picture A.
>>344883698
No you would not. The kinetic energy is not transfered to the cube. You just change the space around the cube, not the cube itself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TZd95BCKMY
>>344883779
>the box doesn't have any kinetic force >>344880797
How does something move without kinetic force? Because the box has to move to cross the portal in the first place.
>>344883389
>An object at rest will remain at rest unless acted on by an another force of differing force.
Or until it passes through a portal, because we already know portals can do that.
>>344883724
>game
Oh right I forgot we were talking about kiddy toys here
>>344883634
So you're saying that the kinetic energy from the relative motion between the references of the portal and the cube just vanishes?
>>344883716
Except given how people constantly get it wrong, nobody actually learns anything
>>344883559
Because portals do what I want them to do since they don't obey the laws of physics
Why are people so hung-up on portals not being able to impart energy? Clearly they can at the very least add potential energy to objects by overcoming gravity, which is how you could accelerate objects to high speeds by placing a portal above another one. You literally just imbued a TON of kinetic energy into a box
>>344883829
>Is there a force to make it move?
That's not the question to ask. It is a fact that it moves, so it doesn't have to be questioned. In both A and B it moves.
>>344883712
>>344883801
the box doesn't move, the spaces simply become linked
it's not actually moving, (except from the effect of gravity once the portal passes over it, which is far to small of a force to give an outcome like B) what is so hard about this to understand?
>>344883902
You move the space around it.
>>344883974
Sure bro. You clearly dont know how physic works and is just here to troll people.
>>344884053
It does not move. In A, it cross the portal and fall to the ground because gravity force him down the 45 degree angle.
It did not move across the portal, the portal moved the space around the box.
>>344883829
>>344884053
In other words, portals break the law "there has to be a force acting on an object for it to gain acceleration". With portals, no force is needed. We know this for a fact like >>344884053 said since we assume the laws of relative motion still apply, and we see that the cube has to come out with some kind of speed from the exit portal.
>>344884130
>the spaces simply become linked
Yes, and the portals link the spaces. The box still has to move through the portal to reach point B. The portal doesn't incorporate more than what is shown.
The fact that this bait remains so effective just goes to show how few people on /v/ have actually learned anything from their high school physics class.
>>344883974
>So you're saying that the kinetic energy from the relative motion between the references of the portal and the cube just vanishes?
there is no kinetic energy to the portal itself though. The portal is a hole, its a space. It can't have kinetic energy just as the space inside a doorframe moving towards you has no kinetic energy. The stamp the portal is attached to has kinetic energy, but that energy is not applied to the box since the stamp never actually touches the box.
>>344884264
>moved the space around the box
That is exactly the same as the box fucking moving
Guys, why do we argue about hypothetical physic with people who cant even solve highschool grade math problems?
>>344880267
how is it pushed?
>>344884130
>it's not actually moving,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_(physics)
>motion is a change in position of an object with respect to time
>>344884462
Because portals do what I want them to do since they don't obey the laws of physics
>>344880771
At least that's something compared to all of you guys' retarded hypotheticals.
I'am dumb, it's A, isn't?
>>344884264
If the portals move space then the box acquires speed.
>>344869806
A you fucking retard
Did you not play portal?
>>344884442
Well we clearly don't have a high school level understanding of physics either, or we'd immediately see that this is a paradoxical situation that violates conservation laws and has no answer in the real world.
>>344869806
depends on how resistances work with the portals itself.
If you have to push your way through the portal (kinda like the idea of hyperspace and needing fields) and it isn't just a hole it could build force and snap out like B, but that's only if it didn't get crushed by force.
Think squeezing a marble between your fingers until it slips and sends it flying.
>>344884631
No. Again, the box do not actually move or change space, it just enter get the space around it changed.
>>344884718
Not really. Are you saying that discussion about Wurmholes are wrong because wurmholes break some other laws and theories?
>>344884718
>violates conservation laws
Physics isn't a bunch of divine forces enforcing random laws on nature. The laws of physics are induced FROM nature. Not the other way around. If we assume a portal is possible, which we can do, then we have to assume that also the laws of physics need to be different to those we have now.
>>344884762
>the box do not actually move or change space
>it just enter get the space around it changed.
So it changes space.
>>344884462
Garry's mod portals dont behave like portal portals.
>>344883483
>IT IS a fucking doorway
No, again a doorway does not have any influence on space, other than occupying space. A portal influences space in a way that is much more complex than just occupying it. A portal is not a doorway. Drop the ignorant metaphor. It doesn't work.
>There is no travel time
Even going through a doorway, which you seem to want to use so much, you have a travel time. The speed at which you are traveling through the doorway, divided by distance traveled would give you a travel time. So in OP's example; speed of orange portal / size of box = travel time.
>When you teleport something, the thing does not move, it's just in another place.
A change in physical location is movement. Look up the definition. If something is teleported, each atom is moved to a very specific location, replacing the atom that is already present, which SHOULD be air in a perfect scenario. That means the item being teleported does not displace itself at the new location, thus no momentum is created.
Teleportation, and portals, are two separate phenomenon, and are not good for comparing.
>>344884848
But they don't. Wormholes fit our current understanding of physics. That's why we think they could exist.
This portal situation is a violation of basic classical mechanics that we have no framework to explain. Why do you think no one in these threads can actually produce the math to prove that their answer is correct? If it can be answered it should be as simple as drawing a couple of vector diagrams.
>>344884920
No. The box occupy the same space it did before. It just occupy it elsewhere. Again, a portal is a doorway, if you have a doorway around you, you dont change your space, the space just goes around you.
Let say we lift a house around some flying person. We can make the person go in any room they want, without the person actually moving. Because space is moving around them.
