https://esports.yahoo.com/zero-explains-differences-between-smash-160000272.html
Melee players confirmed for being savages, barbaric and less thinking people...
I'm so happy for travis, he's starting to make a career for himself. As for this interview, is he really wrong? He said melee is more technical and fast paced and smash 4 is more about mindgames. I can agree with that. But he speaks as though melee doesn't require any thought which is completely wrong.
>melee is not dependent on neutral
>does not need to be studied to perform well
PPMD
B T F O
T
F
OI'm fucking hype as shit for EVO, hopefully our boy Weston figured out the shiek and ICs MUs
>>344701284
But Westballz will choke as always.
>>344698694
>this is what tr4ash players actually believe
Keep grasping for straws, kids.
>>344700796
It really doesn't require much. It is a combo/pressure heavy game, not unlike Marvel 3. It isn't devoid of thought, but the thought process will always be: "keep safe in the neutral, if hit then escape, if they are hit, apply the pressure I practiced". It is highly technical, but not as much mentally as Smash 4.
>>344702006
He played both competitively.
>>344701284
Well he's not wrong.
>>344702171
And he was only good at the game with the lower skill ceiling, when he mained broken characters. Truly Zero knows his stuff.
>>344702171
And isn't good at Melee
>>344702092
Yeah I can agree with that, i've played both competitively although more melee. The mindgames are a bigger thing in 4 than melee.
>>344702372
>>344702419
If you can only discuss Melee by being the best, why are you talking about it? You two suck dick at any game.
>>344698694
>any last words about 4 or melee
>Well, I think smash 4 is better than melee
>host rolls his eyes, smirks and looks right at the camera
heh
>>344701903
don't fucking remind me, I can't wait to play one of the gods and demolish their first 2 stocks only to enter full retard mode and throw it away
>>344702092
well that's an incredible simplification of nearly limitless movement options and situations
>>344702610
You don't have to be the best, but you have to be good. Zero isn't
>>344702669
for him to play***
>>344702092
What mindgames does smash 4 have that melee doesn't have? Yeah, maybe smash 4 has more mindgames in the sense that your always in the neutral, but that's because it completely lacks a punish game of any sort.
Melee has both. Mindgames in the neutral and punishes when you get hits. After playing or even watching melee it's hard to see smash 4 as a full game. It really feels like a shitty melee when you play it.
>>344702669
>well that's an incredible simplification of nearly limitless movement options and situations
That's an incredible exaggeration that can be applied to near any game.
>>344702680
I can guarantee hes better than you
>>344702419
M2K and Hbox suck at Smash 4 too.
Turns out you perform better in games you play more.
>>344703023
I'm M2K
I'm a consistent top 32 player at melee nationals. AMA except for who I am.
I'm a consistent top 16 player at melee nationals. AMA except for who I am.
>>344703064
I never said that Melee players were better at Smash 4 then Smash 4 players? What the fuck is your point?
>>344702610
Rekt
>>344703118
What's the best way to approach icies with Mr.Game&Watch?
>>344703091
If you were really M2K you;d be mature enough not to argue about this on 4chan
>>344703187
And the anon you responded to never said Zero was better at Melee than other Melee players, just that he played it competitively.
>>344703118
Why did Hbox get destroyed by Wizzrobe?
>>344703284
Very carefully.
>>344702419
This is false, considering he was ranked #35 one year. He isn't a god at the game, but he could most certainly beat just about any non-top player than challenged him.
>>344703425
Hbox is out of his prime. He's gotta make way for the new wave on smash players, ones that are most definitely above his skill level.
>>344698694
Nice game tr4sh fags
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i6-mldGJog
That feel whenyou kind of like Zero
At first I hated him. Running the clock at the Nintendo tournament, and winning tourneys with hoo-hah was bitch behavior.
But then he became the unstoppable monster, and it was fun seeing people getting so close to beating him. And he stuck with Diddy despite the nerfs, and was actually really good with him. He also seems to know the matchups and shit really well. And as a bonus he isn't afraid to make fun of himself.
I get why people don't like him, but I do think they can be too harsh sometimes.
>>344698694
>Fatty can't love his thumbs fast enough
>Dumb enough to put a scarf around his neck even in summer
>"Melee savage, barbaric, less thinking urh"
Is there a guy named UMR here who plays? Mario faggot.
>>344703818
That's a good thing, though.
>>344698694
WOOW LOOK AT THE INSANE MINDGAMES
>>344702886
>After playing or even watching melee it's hard to see smash 4 as a full game. It really feels like a shitty melee when you play it.
Funny, I was just thinking the same thing, but with Melee and Smash 4 swapped. Melee is a broken mess.
>>344703284
is...is that powdered ham
>>344704114
>Something that is completely random can lead to an unfair death is a good thing
>>344704479
>unfair death
Nigger, you can sneeze at someone in Melee and he'll be in hitstun for decades. Git gud.
>>344703118
Wobbles, you're not consistent top 32.
>>344704541
The games have the same hitstun
>>344704239
>>>>HungryBox
Nice try.
Hbox stopped playing Smash 4 seriously a while ago in an effort to hide the fact that he's awful at it.
>>344703118
Think /v/, do you really think any top player uses 4chan? only that actually might is Plup.
>>344702092
>the thought process will always be: "keep safe in the neutral, if hit then escape, if they are hit, apply the pressure I practiced"
This is literally every single fighting game, Smash 4 included. Go back to your shitty watered down garbage, Tr4shfag.
>>344704696
>blaming Hbox when there's a Sonic on the screen
He also recently beat the best Smash 4 Falcon
>>344704541
But thats just how Melee works anon.
But there is no reason whatsoever why you shouldnt be allowed to tech when you get that animation by chance. It should either be techable or when you get launched at that % always untechable.
>>344703425
Lets see, Dash dance camping, Platform camping, edge guarding, spaced bairs and instant-uairs that where timed extremely well after puffs disjoints. He and Hbox play quite often so i'm really not suprised he beat him. If you watch the monthlies where they compete against eachother it's quite close. I also think that Hbox has been slacking recently and without his coach always there with him he is slacking. It'll change though since the coach just got sponsored by liquid to help him out.
>>344704848
Who's the best Smash 4 Falcon? Fatality?
>>344704848
>the best Smash 4 Falcon
lol?
>>344703295
You obviously know nothing about M2K.
>>344704801
Wobbles did it around EVO13, Hbox is obviously a /mu/ fag, wouldn't be surpised if someone like Lucky browses /a/.
The best Smash 4 commentator also has used 4chan
>>344704801
Top 32 not top 8, Im not that good!
>>344704801
It's competitive smash bros. Obviously the answer is yes.
>>344704987
http://challonge.com/dis4singles
https://mobile.twitter.com/Anti/status/751895563654791168?s=09
https://mobile.twitter.com/LiquidHbox/status/751890718801555456?s=09
It's true.
>>344698694
According to this logic, 64 is the best game.
>>344705306
Who?
I can't wait for Melee at EVO this year.
It'll be a blast to see how they embarass themselves and get themselves kicked from majors at the premium tournament.
>>344705413
Fatality, best C.Falcon who lost to Hbox's Puff.
Puff is also considered the worst character.
Nice fucking skillcap
>>344703365
So what is the point?
>>344705540
Smash 4 players are ones thinking of leaving EVO though
>>344705660
>Fatality
WHO?
>C.Falcon
W H O ?
>>344705878
ur mom
>>344705748
Smash 4, despite being somehow even worse to watch than Melee which is already painfully boring, at least has the benefit of a playerbase that doesn't shit in pools or boo when actual fighting games are being played.
>>344705965
they didn't boo the game and no one even knew who the pool shitter was and what games he played
>>344705965
Because they are a bunch of pussies. We Melee players know that we can do whatever we want and not get kicked out because our game is so good.
>>344705380
>https://esports.yahoo.com/zero-explains-differences-between-smash-160000272.html
not really considering 64 was 1 combo=dead
>>344704287
Seriously?
I'm not offended I'm just actually curios to why you think that. Why do you think melee is a broken mess and Smash 4 isn't? Unless your messing with me I really don't see it
>>344706330
>not really considering 64 was 1 combo=dead
You do realize that it's nothing like that, right? Have you ever even played it?
>>344706286
Not good enough to beat Sm4sh or SFV.
Have a happy Fox Hunt.
>>344706820
Good enough to get the second best time slot in the arena on Sunday. MrWiz sold out you cucks out.
>>344706330
>64 was 1 combo=dead
lol shutup
>>344706820
I thought Melee had the most viewers, when did Sm4sh beat that?
>>344706820
It's gonna get like double the views of Smash 4 though.
Even Mr.Wizard know's how boring it is.
Nothing can beat Street Fighter though.
>>344707104
I-it beat it a event which majority Melee players didn't attend cause bad rules.
Melee BTFO
>>344705380
That'd be correct.
>the player who can't win a tournement after nintendo fixed their broken character thinks their opinion is valuable
>>344705963
Good one.
>Haven't played Melee in years
>Went to a convention over the weekend
>Decided to play one of the ten gamecubes running Melee
>Threw on Adventure mode
>Put it on Very Hard just for shits and giggles, figured if I was going to play it, I'd go balls deep
>Most of the levels after the first couple ones aren't even real platformer stages, just some special fights on regular stages
>They pretty much blew their load in the Mario and Zelda stages
>The actual battles are ridiculous, enemies home in on you with vicious, unrelenting attacks, and no matter how much you swing at them they just won't fucking die, but if they so much as sneeze you get launched
I forget why I ever found that mode fun
>>344707726
Who, Zero? Zero topped with Diddy for ages after the nerf.
>>344709160
It was more the Nintendo fanservice than anything, Melee's mechanics were broken as shit.
I will always prefer Melee's trophy mode over the other games because Melee gave everything this glossy feel to it and felt like an actual encyclopedia of games & shit they pulled out from nowhere, Brawl was alright but focused on a lot of recent stuff, and Sm4sh had almost everything split between two games anf much of their stuff were model ports & descriptions ruined by shitty Memehouse jokes.
He is right, but meleefags in general are touchy and overly defensive when you give anything to Smash 4 at all.
Saying Smash 4 has more mindgames does not mean he is saying that melee has none. Just having more doesn't mean anything bad towards melee at all, especially since its more of something that not is actually in the game's gameplay, but outside it in the player's heads. Its just rather cheap and petty to simply see melee as flawless, and see nothing good in 4 at all. They both are great games, and they both have their flaws as well.
>>344702092
This.
Games like mvc3 and melee are all about the unending pressure and flowchart setups, which is a consequence of the fast paced nature of them.
>>344706259
Wasn't there a big issue about smash players booing a GG final or something because they wanted Melee on instead?
>>344711051
He's saying it's more mindgames because it makes him feel better.
Rock paper scissors does not make an interesting fighting game.
>>344703064
>m2k sucks at smash 4
not true btw
>>344703091
Then ZeRo is still better than you.
>>344711757
Its literally more mindgames cause the matches are longer, because the game is slower.
Cause and effect exists. Less time passes in melee matches, therefore its logical to assume not as much happens, because lives can be lost so quickly. Meleefags like to see melee as perfection and does everything right, but yet they do not acknowledge that with every positive, a negative exists for it. Every yin for a yang.
>>344712495
>double the stocks
>not as much happens
Unless you think stalling for time is an exciting and varied event, you are wrong. Don't even bother replying.
>>344711051
>no tomahawks
>way less out of shield options (jump, roll or spot dodge only. can you even jump cancel smash attacks?)
>tons of ways to play mindgames or mix up your opponent are completely removed or severely gimped (shield stop, empty jump, empty jump waveland back, late aerial on shield, early aerial on shield, dash dance, etc)
>stage position is less important due to inability to get low% KOs, meaning that having someone near a ledge does not force bad decision making
wew lad, shield pressure is all adaptation too
>>344705380
In terms of solid fundamentals and mindgames, absolutely. The rest of the series would be better if it was more like 64, P:M goofed b tring to hard to make it's gameplay follow high tier Melee's.
>>344698694
What the hell? I'm a big tourneyfag and a lot of shit he says about Smash 4 applies to Melee
>One game is fast
>One game is slow
>Which has more mindgames?
OH MAN WHAT A HARD CHOICE HOW ABOUT THE ONE WHICH IS LONGER YOU FUCKING IDIOT SPIC? GOD I FUCKING HATE THAT FAT PIECE OF SHIT, TALKING LIKE ITS A BIG SURPRISE OR SOMETHING THAT SMASH FOUR HAS MORE MINDGAMES. WELL DUH. WHAT'S NEXT, GOING TO SAY THAT A ONE HOUR GAME OF MONOPOLY HAS MORE MINDGAMES THEN A TEN MINUTE GAME OF CONNECT FOUR? NO FUCKING SHIT, YOU FAT SACK OF FUCK. WHEN IS THIS LARDASS GOING TO DIE OF A HEART ATTACK ALREADY?
>>344698694
I'd rather listen to m2k who is a top ranked player in both.
Also who cares about ZeRo anymore? He gets his fat brown little boyhole broken every tourney now.
>trusting a South American crybaby who wears """"""gaming glasses""""""
kek
>>344705748
lmao the melee nigger projection.
we're not going with you once you get kicked out dumb niggers
>>344701284
Weston is irrelevant as long as Leffen is attending.
Melee has 4 stocks and you have just as many neutral situations but going much faster
>>344712692
>double the stocks.
And the match is still shorter then smash 4 is. You didn't change anything.
>>344713049
again, if you think stalling for time is exciting and varied, please do not reply. Plenty of smash 4 is a locked neutral.
>>344711750
No, that's bullshit made up by FGC schoolgirls, as always. The crowd booed the announcement that Melee was being delayed, and GG happened to be the game that delayed it. But the FGC always has to be antagonistic about stuff like this.
>>344706519
>Have you ever even played it?
Do doubt he doesn't. 64 has tons of 0-deaths, but there's plenty of situations where this isn't the case.
>>344711750
https://youtu.be/rU3gV0oUUE8?t=2m28s
2:28
Zero appreciation thread?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7HZPHG0r70
>>344698694
>>344698694
fuck u nigger bigot
>>344713328
There we go. HugS is no bullshit and I dig that on 'em
>>344711750
Something along the lines of GG and Melee both being delayed, and GG was being played first, and Melee players weren't exactly thrilled
Between this and catfished M2K, CEO was fucking insane for smash this year
>>344704472
It looks like one of those japanese DIY candy kits.It could be powdered ham tho
Melee is like speed chess, plenty of options but also plenty of room for execution errors which can quickly turn the tide of a match.
Sm4sh is like regular chess only knights and rooks have been scrapped. You have plenty of time to think about your moves and you don't have that many moves to consider to begin with
>>344712983
I think your quotation mark key is stuck.
>>344713328
I never realized HugS was this based.
You could say rock paper scissors is more about the mind games than the technical side, that doesn't mean it has a deeper level of mindgames than another game. Just that its mostly about it.
Smash 4 relies on midnagames more but the midnagames are still shallower than in melee. Melee has better everything besides roster and graphics.
>>344713374
>Melee was an accident
I love this meme
>>344714848
>midnagames
Nani
could someone post a summary? I'm too impatient to do anything other than read.provide a transcript come on yahoo
>>344713040
I hope he gets that runback with La Luna
>>344715229
All you need to know is that if we all band together we can help based ZeRo (like from Megaman lol) petition Nintendo to get Sheik unnerfed!
>>344713040
the last time they played westballz kept it close. I think he honestly has a better chance vs leffen than vs plup/shroomed.
>someone is biased towards the game they play more
HOLY SHIIIIIIIIIIIT
>>344715615
Far as I know last time they played was in Europe.
This ain't PALco.
What about a 14 year game of mahjong?
>>344715635
HOOOOOOOLY SHIT.
I BROKE MY FUCKING LEG.
>>344715737
People who think this are retarded. The MU differences in PAL are pretty much purely in Fox's favor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5ylEIq5FQQ
>>344715737
true, but I don't think Falco is THAT much better in PAL.
at least melee doesn't have rng based teching
>>344715973
oh man I'd forgotten about this commentator
>>344715994
It's not that Falco is better it's that Fox is slightly worse making them closer to equal.
>>344698694
Fuck him. I can't wait till everyone drops tr4sh next year and people still keep playing melee for another 15 years.
>>344703284
By pressing L, R, A, Start, then Fox.
>>344698694
>https://esports.yahoo.com/zero-explains-differences-between-smash-160000272.html
I hate this fat fuck but, as a long-term melee fan, I agree with his assessment here. Competitive melee has always been about consistent technical skill, mastering execution, and match-up knowledge. Back from 2002-2006, it was an arms race of tech - every little new piece of tech discovered would shift the tier lists. The top players were the ones with the best execution. Execution came from thousands of hours of grinding away in training mode and at smashfests with your regional groups. Melee is and always has been about mastering the game itself in order to overwhelm your opponent, not about beating the other player through an evolving strategy.
I mean, sure, mindgames are a part of the game - but they're maybe 5% of the melee equation. Really what you're looking to do in melee is just tilt the other player until they play sloppily, flub inputs, and get rekt.
>>344716091
The biggest changes to Fox are that his moves that kill off the top are weakened, which if anything benefits Fox in this MU because Falco isn't going to die off the top at reasonable percents. All is does is make Falco easier for Fox to combo
>>344716353
if you're a read heavy player play peach/shiek/falcon or something, they don't require nearly as much tech skill but are just as viable. I'm a bad technical player but I still do decently at locals just because I know how to read people and tech chase.
Does anyone here have competitive experience with smash 4? If so, is it good?better than brawl at least?
>>344716381
Recovery, nigger.
>>344716758
It's actually worse than brawl, brawl might be a bit slower but there are actual combos in brawl, smash4 is literally just fishing for two hit strings and shielding and rolling.
>>344716381
>ignoring the fact that fox's recovery is also severely nerfed, since his firebird goes 2/3 of its original distance and at a much slower speed than in ntsc
edgeguarding is a super important skill for a falco in ntsc, and it's just made easier for him in pal
ignore this post
>>344698694
I'm not lawful, make this pussy stop talking. You're not one of the gods, you're one of the god awful. We all gawking when looking at your Fox. Take it to Smash 4 and lose it by four stocks. Not standing your style, you ain't standing your ground. Get wins while kicking a man when he's down, like, "I beat Mango, I'm the favorite if he chokes! As far as Armada goes, I'll just wait 'til he's a host." Ain't no telling how foolish you'll be looking. Evidence dot zip can't contain the ass whooping. Right when we realize the money match is over, that will be your cue to throw your controller. Expose you as a fraud, yeah I'll be blowing you up. Who said you were a god? I know it wasn't Plup. Been here ten years and you know I'm showing up. For a man of many words, I think you've said enough, but, the only way to make you hush - I'll body bag your fox then Dot zip it shut - Put you in your place, kid, you're a disgrace. Get killed quick like that missile hit you in the face. After all of this you'll be watching your mouth, ain't no telling who'll be calling you out. When salty suite comes down
You better come correct - Until you win a major show your elders some respect. P.S. Leffen I ain't done yet; I'm the underdog so place your bets... Who ever want to see Leffen looking dumb throw your money on the line cause I'm making some. Gotta say bro you're looking awfully weak. Wait and see what happens at the salty suite. Vanilla fox don't suit you so go find another. Teach you a lesson and take back my color.
>>344716353
>melee has always been about consistent technical skill, mastering execution
this is the opinion of someone who spends hours practicing multishining and waveshining and then goes 0-2 in his local's pools
the idea that technical skill, frame data knowledge, matchup theorycrafting is all it takes to win at melee has been thoroughly debunked. borp plays with literally no techskill whatsoever and can make it to top 64 of majors semi-regularly. ppmd and mango dominated westballz for years despite westballz's clearly superior technical skill. Why? because westballz's neutral is fucking retarded.
>>344716897
no
I want to suck Lia's nipples
>>344716673
I've been a marth main since forever, so I know a lil something about having shit tech skill. But yeah man, there's always been an enormous gap between local competitions and true majors, even here in NYC. I play ganon when I'm fucking around with friends because our skill-level is low enough for the game to accommodate reads and mindgames, but I'd hate playing top level competitive melee because it's 85% reliant on flawless space animal execution and touch of death combos.
>>344717130
and didn't you at least watch the documentary? m2k openly admits he was a scrub who thought he could win with the shit you're talking about, then he got repeatedly bodied and had to actually learn neutral. and even then he was still 2nd to mango for years, before he finally learned mixup / read basics
>>344716876
Except DAir isn't always a spike in PAL so edgeguarding isn't entirely improved, and that extra 1/3 is really only going to make a difference when it would allow him to reach top platform, because Falco's BAir easily covers both the ledge and the bottom platform
>>344713374
Brawl Minus fan reporting. Sounds about right except for a little part of the PMfag part. Haven't seen/heard a single chill PM fan.
>>344717647
you haven't seen/heard me ;)
>>344717647
Why would any care about the opinion of someone who unironically plays a meme game
>Smash 4 is like chess because it's slow and boring
>>344717294
>basics
Exactly like you say. I'm not claiming melee has no requirement for mixup/neutral/read game, but it's clearly a smaller slice of the pie than technical execution as far as competitive success is concerned. Smash 4 is a slower game with significantly longer match times which, obviously, means mindgames/reads become proportionally more important than technical skill. Smash 4 also has a lower tech ceiling than Melee.
>>344716758
Most certainly better than brawl be ause no tripping and there are actual combos
However I fear the quality may take a bit of dive due to Cloud and Bayo being kind of busted
>>344717883
why would any care about the opinion of someone who unironically says meme game
>>344718114
Who would anyone care about the opinion of someone who gets booty-blasted when they get called out for unironically playing a literal meme game
>>344718097
Bayo was nerfed, she is only like, high-mid tier now. Cloud is still the same, but can be played around if you know the MU and outplays your opponent.
>>344717565
Weak Dair is pretty irrelevant since any Falco main hits with early Dair anyway.
>>344718329I don't play it, meme spouter
>>344715197
Think of those Frozen "help Elsa give birth out of her infected nose" games, but as a Zone flash.
For having played Smash 4 for the past 2 years, then coming back to melee, I find Melee to be a lot more along my line than Smash 4.
Keep in mind this is stricktly my opinion and that it's all about my own interpretation, preferences and that I'm aware there are shitty arrogant players everywhere in every circles of competitive and fighting games, but I find Smash 4 players to be more arrogant in general specifically because it's a mindgame based game as opposed to a pressure one where you need to be crisp at all time and have some strong mental stamina.
Yes I know there are pieces of shit in Melee comp scene too, just look at how everybody hates Leffen, but the fact that Smash 4 is a game where you must assert that you are a better reader seems to foster a very annoying mindset where some players think they are smarter than you for capitalizing on your mistakes and that gives them some right to act like a piece of shit towards you. As I said, this is not a direct 1:1 comparison between the Melee and Smash 4 fanbase, just a slight difference between the overall feel of playing both games competitively, IN MY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE( I insist on reminding you of that detail), Melee players are more about having a good time than in the Smash 4tourneys I'Ve attended where people seem to be out to prove something and, in the long turn, this has turned me away from the Smash 4 competitive scene.
Don't get me wrong, I love both games and I will forever laugh at the stupid bickering between the two fanbases and OP is a massive faggot, but I'm much more of a meleefag now. There is a local toruney tha tI'm gonna be participating in in two months and I have never been so excited about playing a smash tourney ina long fucking time.
>>344698694
>i'm washed up and get dropped by palutenas ever since my top tier mains got nerfed, but I'm pretty sure I know how melee works
Scarflard is either lazy and washed up or the diabetes is making him lose feeling in his extremities
>>344721703
I'm a Meleefag who enjoys both games and I agree with him. What I love about Melee is the feeling of playing the game well whereas playing Smash 4 is about playing your opponent and he is 100% right aout this. IT's just an entirely different cup of tea. I'm a player who likes the feel of technicality, of practicing techs and executing them perfectly in an environment of pressure.
It is not to say that Melee doesn't have some heavy mindgames, though and I think he understands that very well. It's just that, MAINLY, Melee relies on techs where in Smash 4 you can be a decent player for as long as you are good at adapting to your opponents even if you're not really sharp on combos and techniques, but if you fmeet an opponent who is both good at reading you and executing big damage combos, you have a strict disadvantage.
Instead of shitposting, maybe you should learn to read between the lines. I hated Zero, too, at first, for being a time staller in Brawl, but he's really established himself in the Smash 4 scene as a really good player who is absolutely passionate about what he's doing and his knowledge of the game is undisputable. When he talks about smash 4, you listen. It's obvious he knows way less about Melee since he's not mainly a Melee player, but he's played the game, he's friends with Mew2king and he's been hanging around that scene for a short time, I think it was enough for him, maybe not to understand Melee, but to be able to see the differences between both games.
