Bill was just a cool character. well written and acted, and his sexuality is only hinted at. we're sad when we find out his partner was dead. and it hits even more when you ellie pulls out the gay porno mag from his place and you realize the partner that abandoned him was actually his lover. ;_;
>>344634742
I didnt know he was gay until i replay it
seems so obvious now but that how most in closet gay people are i guess
>>344634742
It wasn't so in your face and didn't feel like a token character. Which is a shame because they had to make such a blatant token character in Nadine in U4
>>344634742
>>344634742
>Ellie takes one of his porn mags.
>It's only guys
>Pages stuck together
Yeah, hinted at
>>344634742
I loved all of their exchanges.
Bill: "See, this is what happens when you get sloppy, Bill. You need to check the perimeter, replace the..."
Ellie: "Great, now he's talking to himself."
Joel: "Uh, Bill?"
Bill: (sarcastic) "JOEL...?"
a gay character "done right" never even presents the fact they're gay. because its a fucking video game.
>>344635440
And he didn't. Never once did Bill say, "Hi, I'm gay, did you know that?"
If you had played the game instead of finishing up your Shitposting degree, you'd know that.
>>344634742
A gay character doesn't belong in movies, games, fiction.
>>344635157
she says she's jk about the sticking together, but yeah
>>344636310
She was joking that she didn't know why they were stuck together while in truth she did know why.
Think about it. She only turns like 2 or 3 pages while the rest aren't moving at all.
>"gay characters done right" according to /v/
>almost never bring up their sexuality at all, might as well not even be gay at all since it has no bearing on their existence
>straight characters can go on about their sexual and romantic interests and conquests at large and even make it a main aspect of their character if they're promiscuous, but this is apparently perfectly fine and isn't 'doing straight people wrong'
>>344635541
good homo in games are just good characters who happen to be gay, like volgin. he's a power mad piece of shit, and when you find out he's queer it just adds an extra little layer. his sexuality is even to the characters advantage because we know he sexual tortures prisoners which makes him even more heinous
>>344636280
A shitty regressive fundie doesn't belong on 4chan, the internet, in modern society
Love is sexless and genderless. Doubly so in an apocalyptic setting where the very next minute you or your friends life could end.
>>344636414
bills sexuality played significantly into his character you fucking retard. all of his characterization was about his lost boyfriend
>>344635440
>don't take them seriously, they're just games
>please take us seriously we're art and bigger than cinema and pleeeease
Pick one.
this cereal I'm eating is really not filling at all
>>344636789
Which one is it? You need some oats or bran, my friend.
>>344635440
>only straight characters are allowed to have their sexuality presented
kys my man
>>344634919
or the gay black token character in the dlc
because the hell with subtlety
>>344636419
He's bi btw. Its hinted at that he fucked Eva.
kanji
>>344636789
>eating corn flakes
>>344634742
Vivec
But he fucks everything... Still he was literally a gay whore that was raped as a child before Nerevar saved him
That one hunter in the beginning of Witcher 3.
>>344634919
Nadine was such shit.
>Hi I'm a new character. I'm an independent woman, who bests every other character and I have no flaws at all.
Later;
>Yes, I am still in this game. No I don't actually do anything except beat up Nathan and act really pissed off
At the end when everyone finds the treasure;
>Well, my job is done, I'm leaving the game because I never cared about the treasure at all! I'm definitely not leaving peacefully because Nate killing me would cause a controversy, nope not at all!
>>344637148
and now i'm thinking about the betrayal of Nerevar Moon-and-Star.
thanks, N'wah
>>344636414
A character who's only defining trait is their sexuality is not an interesting character. Someone like Arcade from New Vegas is a much more interesting character compared to the 'muh husband' shuttle pilot from ME3, because he's defined by alot more characteristics then 'likes cock', which is how real people are
>>344637024
Kanji isn't gay, you retard
>>344636956
>gay black people cannot exist! you can't be more than one minority at a time!
This is how alt rights think the world works
As long as they dont act like a faggot sjw then it doesnt bother me
>>344634742
Apparently Troy Baker, upon reading the original script, complained that Bill felt incredibly out of place and that trying to shove LGBT inclusion messages into a survival horror game felt incredibly out of place. So thanks to Troy Baker we got an actual cool character instead of a 'look at me I'm competent but also GAY whooo so inclusive' kind of character.
Dethmold
No contest.
>>344636986
>>344636419
Nigger volgin isn't gay. He just likes being dominant, you'll understand if you like traps and women.
why would anyone care about their sexuality outside of their bedroom is beyond me
>They're retconning Sulu to be gay in the next Star Trek film, against the original homosexual actor's wishes.
>JJ Abrams said he was doing it anyway because if he made any other character gay, it would be seen as "the gay character"
>>344638172
>isn't gay
>if you like traps
This is my favorite meme
>>344638187
>Retconning
It's not even the same universe faggot.
>>344638272
>Loving Femininity is gay
You just don't get it.
>>344636419
Volgin was bi or he'd fuck anything, It's implied he gave Eva the dicking of her life. It just so happens that the only person he fucks out of love rather than dominance and anger is a twink.
>>344638187
It's funny that none of these social justice fucks bothered to grill JJbrams for turning Khan Noonein Singh into the whitest man on earth, but will undoubtedly applaud this as a fantastic change. I guess unless it's about blacks they don't give a fuck
>>344637647
What? He said away woth subtlety because the dlc gay blaxk person was so obviously gay that it made them just gay minority character.
Also go back to Tumblr while you still can and not die of being triggered.
>>344636414
It's right there in his name, but he was a character beyond just his sexuality. More likeable than 90% of GTA characters too, even if he is a fuckup.
>>344638343
It is the same universe following a different timeline. Sulu had wife and kids in original Star Trek.
>>344636789
I pretty much gave up on eating cereal for breakfast years ago. I only have it dry as an occasional snack.
Though I doubt having eggs every morning is better on my health.
>>344636414
>>straight characters can go on about their sexual and romantic interests and conquests at large
Please post a character like this that /v/ loves aside from Rance
I'll wait
Had a huge argument with my gf about the sulu thing. She thought it was a fine idea and I argued against it just calling it pandering. If it doesn't progress the story or it's done after the fact then why does it even need a mention?
She said that it was because I thought gays couldn't live in a future space utopia. I wanted to break up with her over all of this.
Gays literally ruined my night.
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Tsjp5q7.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
This crazy little homo
>>344637193
This
>only says that he's gay if you repeatedly ask about something despite him being reluctant
>>344634742
>done right
This meme needs to die
Bill and Arcade are used by /v/ as the epitome of gay characters because it's "implied" and they don't "force" their sexuality.
Fuck that shit. You only like them because they're struggling with their sexuality and have a hard time coming to terms with it, akin to you not having a gf
A character like pic related would be a gay character done right, who doesn't give a single fuck and rubs their nutsack in people's faces unsolicited just because.
>>344638927
>Bill
>Struggling to come to terms with his sexuality
Literally when
Nigga is mourning his boyfriend and has bear mags out in the open
>>344638187
Huh, didn't know george was against it. Now I really don't like this movie.
>>344638927
You're fucking stupid mate
>>344638927
that would be a faggot character done right.
Only one done right. I didn't even know he was gay until my third playthrough and I had the male flirting perk on
>>344636659
>please leave us alone and stop censoring our entertainment plz
Fixed. That's all I care about.
>>344639103
Yeah, he doesn't want it because he doesn't believe Sulu was gay. Also because he respected the original writers of the character.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/star-trek-george-takei-gay-1.3670416
>>344638803
>that /v/ loves
did you stretch your legs properly for all the goalpost moving you're going to be doing?
>>344635440
Incorrect; see Veronica and Christine from New Vegas.
>>344639331
And even then, he's really smooth about it. Doesn't try to suck your nuts off right there.
>>344639331
>you can't know a gay character is gay
ITT: closet gays you can entirely miss while playing the game.
>>344636831
fuck off tumblr
>>344638927
>This one extreme of the issue is bad, but this other extreme is perfect
Nah, nigger. A good gay has a balance between being open about their sexuality and still having good character qualities that don't make you notice only their homosexuality about them. The problem is, a lot of society is still majorly afraid of being too open about male homosexuality in specific, so they decide that, if they're gonna create characters about it, they need to be the most covert they can get. Female homosexuality doesn't seem to be such a problem so you do see more lesbian characters in that perfect middle ground.
>>344639642
Yes because if I met you for the first time I wouldn't know your a fag until you said something like this to my face
>>344637453
All of Nerevar related stuff is really emotional for me
>>344639331
Really? I picked up on it just from talking to him.
They really fucked up with Veronica tho.
I'm actually surprised they let people be homo in the BoS
>>344636618
Not just his lost boyfriend, it explained why he was as paranoid as he was, even more so than most survivors, also explained why he lived on the edge of the town out of the way of everyone, like he was ostracized from the community with it being a small hick town.
>>344636618
You don't even know for sure that he's gay until the gay porno mag scene. Bill was done well, but I didn't like how they did the exact same thing with Ellie and revealed her gayness in the same way.
>>344638927
Hard gay fabulous and LGBT preaching are completely different though. Hard gay is Hentai Kamen style comedic. Throwing in LGBT shit in a setting meant to be taken seriously can be completely inappropriate for the setting and derail the plot. As in OP where the emphasis is SURVIVING ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE.
>>344638808
I bet this isn't the first time you mentioned "pandering" to her. I bet you also spew /pol/ memes in front of her faget. You deserve this.
>>344639331
>Only one done right. I didn't even know he was gay until my third playthrough
God dammit /v/
This doesn't even sound like a real opinion any more when you put it so simplistically. It's almost a complete non-sequitur. It's like you're all just parroting each other without remembering what the point was.
There isn't one good way to do a gay character. Some people are more open about their sexuality. Some are more reserved. It depends on their circumstances, their role in the game, their relationship to the player and other characters, how acceptable it is in their environment.
If you want to talk about good writing or bad writing then by all means. But don't restrict yourself to gay characters and don't reduce them to one archetype. And while you're at it, don't let your opinion of the developer colour your perception of the character.
>>344636831
Seeing as it's the default and results in off-spring, yes
>>344634742
Gay people should be killed.
>>344637267
Nadine truly was the epitome of a token character with no purpose being there
>>344634742
Any character the devs don't feel the need to put on a pedestal before the game isn't even fucking out.
It doesn't even matter how they're portrayed in the game, but when the devs are announcing that a character in their game is gay before it's even released like with Dragon Age and Overwatch it's just embarrassing.
>>344646045
Who is gay in Overwatch?
p. sure you made this up
>>344646250
We don't know Blizzard just announced that at least one of them is gay but didn't say who.
>>344646250
Isn't that dwarf guy a white blonde male from Sweden? By spurdo logic that makes him gay by definition.
>the only good gay characters are the ones that you don't know are gay
Then they're not really good gay characters, are they?
A good gay character has to be obviously homosexual and still well-written. It cannot be something that is "hidden", "hinted at", or only really noticeable upon analysis.
>>344646324
Well, statistically, one of them would be.
>>344646475
>has to be obviously homosexual and still well-written
It doesn't need to be obvious. Not all homosexuals fit the stereoype. You can also have a character who you can't immediately tell is gay, and you can run into a situation where it becomes an issue. Or not. It doesn't need to be made into an issue. It needs to be relevant if it is brought up, and it can be irrelevant if it isn't. Just don't bring it up for the sake of bringing it up.
>>344639331
This. One of my all time favorite characters.
>>344647125
>It doesn't need to be obvious
Yes, it does.
The fact that the character is gay and that this impacts on the way that they live their life is the sole and entire point of making the character gay in the first place. I don't mean obvious as in flaming homosexual, I mean obvious as in it doesn't require multiple playthroughs just to start picking up on the hints.
Characters are not real people. Stories are not real events. Characters are designed by writers, and the design of a character ought to serve a purpose. Extraneous pointless bullshit has no place in a narrative. If you're going to make a character gay there has to be a reason - it has to have a point, it has to mean something, it has to go somewhere. That's why Arcade Gannon is in fact not an effective gay character. He's got a great storyline, I love him as a character, but the gay shit is almost entirely irrelevant. It would only take a few lines of dialogue to cement it as another facet of him that reinforces him as an outsider in the Mojave, cut off from mainstream society because of his habits, education, general passivity, etc. etc., but they never do anything with it. It's a potentially interesting angle - at the very least a minor feature that can add a bit more depth to his social isolation - that gets completely ignored because we wouldn't want to trigger the hacks on /v/.
>Straight characters done right
>Gay characters done right
>Black characters done right
>White characters done right
>Asian characters done right
Fucking stupid. It should just be characters done right. Period.
>>344647536
>Extraneous pointless bullshit has no place in a narrative. If you're going to make a character gay there has to be a reason - it has to have a point, it has to mean something, it has to go somewhere.
No it doesn't. Especially in longer stories. Pithiness is paramount in short stories.
And hard rules for something as nebulous as writing is fucking stupid. You are entitled to your opinion, but the fact that you think every single story should be written under the same guidelines makes you sound like a narrow-minded retard.
>>344647832
Okay senpai, well you can write your waffling genre-fiction pentalogy, but almost all literary narrative work of note is done in one, and the longer works are long, sure, but they're not full of waffle - they're just epic in scope and require the length to be done justice. Maybe there's a connection?
People don't want to sit through pointless bullshit, so cut the pointless bullshit by either
a) not including it
b) giving it a point
And this is all /v/'s complaint really is. They don't like that faggot from Inquisition because the only point was purely marketing, so as far as the narrative was concerned it was pointless bullshit (or so it was perceived), and due to the highly visible nature of this waste much critique was levelled. What /v/ doesn't realise is that Gannon suffers from the same problem - the only point to his being gay is to meet the gay quota to actually give that perk some use, and they just tacked it on to him - but because you can play through the game three times without even noticing the affront doesn't feel egregious.
>>344648229
>They don't like that faggot from Inquisition because the only point was purely marketing
This is not actually true.
>>344634742
Bill was awesome. ND handled his sexuality perfectly without making it his only defining characteristic.
>>344648391
I know, which is why I added the >(or so it was perceived).
>>344647536
That's retarded. Why would you make a big deal about a single aspect of a character? Gannon wears glasses too. It doesn't need to have its own bit of exposition. You're basically grasping for justification to point fingers at something you want to consider abnormal and requires some hamfisted awareness raising in the form of videogame representation. Nobody bullies fags in New Vegas. It already is a normalized human behavior. It's literally regressive to try to drag it back.
It's strongly hinted that Christine is Veronica's ex girlfriend. There. You already have two gay characters whose relationship is closely related to part of the story and several quests. The relationships of many other characters, whatever species, gender or orientations are also related to parts of the story. Gannon is gay, but it doesn't matter. Because it shouldn't.
>>344647640
This. Identity politics is bullshit.
>>344635820
Disgusting as fuck.
>>344648480
Right, but the point still is that /v/ is a bunch of retards jumping to conclusions and their complaints are unfounded and if anyone is making homosexuality the sole defining trait of a character, it's the /v/irgins who overreact to these things.
>>344637959
That sounds cool, and I'd like to believe it. You got a source on that?Troy is a p cool guy
>>344639931
I think it is mentioned that she got shit for it. I'm guessing the official stance on being a homo in the BoS is that it's frowned upon but not forbidden.
>>344648484
>Why would you make a big deal about a single aspect of a character?
Because
characters
aren't
people.
Characters EXIST to have big deals made about them. That is the only reason you have them. If you've got a character who is just a normal dude that nothing happens to, why the fuck do you even have him? Do you think a game full of normal people to whom nothing happens would be a fun game?
Every aspect of a character was put there by someone. If you're going to shove things in front of me that I have to fucking sit through, make it worth my time. Don't just throw everything into a pot and pull out whatever sounds cool because that's not how you write good characters.
Good characters serve a narrative purpose and feel like real people. That means that you have to include enough humanity to actually pull off the illusion of reality without losing focus of what the character has to be and do. For example:
In real life people are unpredictable. Sometimes people who never travel might spontaneously decide to go intercontinental for a week, just because. It happens, sure. However, characters in stories should never do this - should never be unpredictable - because it only confuses the reader about who the character actually is. Unless there is a point to the unpredictability - unless it moves the plot forward or develops the character in some way that will then move the plot forward, or it happens as a result of some prior event and is in fact the effect of something else - then there's no fucking point to including it and it just blurs what you're trying to convey.
>>344638493
They did though.
>>344636414
>>straight characters can go on about their sexual and romantic interests and conquests at large and even make it a main aspect of their character if they're promiscuous, but this is apparently perfectly fine and isn't 'doing straight people wrong'
Making a character's personality based around nothing but sex is bad writing regardless of their orientation.
>>344637959
I think a good argument to point out the contrived representation in that game is that there are only a dozen central characters in the entire story, and not one, not two, but three of them happen to be gay. That's statistically improbable. ND didn't turn on a random number generator to produce a realistically probable demographically diverse group of characters. They made conscious design decisions. Ironic that such progressive representation is literally the result of discrimination of character design based on sexual orientation.
>>344649231
Jesus Christ kys
>>344649459
>kys
You first.
>>344648461
LEWD
