Gentlemen, how do we fix Zenyatta?
>>344566118
Decrease debuff amount but increase time
>>344566118
Tell everyone that the team needs a second healer.
>>344566118
Increase mobility or survivability
>>344566118
There is nothing wrong with him.
>>344566118
Remaking his stupid ultimate would be a good start.
>>344566307
mate the time is infinite as long as you keep line of sight
>>344566118
Honestly no one really uses the ball charge up
Maybe turn it into a 3 ball shot gun spread
>>344566491
He is virtually unplayed competitively. I personally dont think its possible to perfectly balance the game but it doesnt mean they shouldnt try
>>344566356
This.
Zenyatta is fine as far as offense, healing and utility go.
His mobility/endurance is his greatest weakness. He's tied for lowest HP pool in the game, with no defensive or mobility options.
A good player can shut a zenyatta down with basic impunity
>>344566118
Make his heal have a timer instead of requiring line of sight or buff the healing per second
Add some sort of mobility or some self-shield
-25+ Hp
-3s OoS to 4s OoS Orbs
That's it.
>>344566118
give him 250 hp
make his ult charge faster
remove the los nerfs
give his balls +25 damage
increase his movespeed
>>344566587
>virtually
literally anon, out of 900 possibilities of a pro picking him for any given situation in a match he was picked 0 times
Blizz are already working on changes for him
Give him two orbs of harmony and 25 health. Orbs don't break when not in LOS.
Fixed.
>Higher movement speed
>50 more health
BAM! Zenyatta fixed.
Make his rightclick either do more damage or charge faster. It's a dps loss compared to leftclicks so there's almost never any point in using it now.
>>344566787
(you)
>>344566587
>fighting any character in the game under 300 health
>discord orb them
>they cut through a building/put a wall in between us to try and flank me
>know exactly where they are and where they're going for 3 seconds
>charge up 5 orbs and kill them the instant they walk out of the door
just because you don't know how to use it doesn't mean everyone else doesn't
>>344566910
>Two orbs that dont break
Suddenly invincible Genjis and Tracers in every game, shitting up the meta harder than Zenny did back in closed beta
>Stop playing this game as it's designed for casuals, so of course the gameplaybalance is gonna be shit.
>>344567114
>Suddenly invincible Genjis and Tracers in every game, shitting up the meta harder than Zenny did back in closed beta
There's literally no reason to ever use Zenyatta over Lucio or Mercy. Gotta make him broken like those two or he's just going to never be picked.
give him a gun
>>344566118
Give him an ability to contineously regenerate his shield.
Not too much so he become unkillable by a tracer but enough so that he doesnt become a sitting duck that does nothing but run back from spawn.
>>344567107
>ZERO PRO COMPETITIVE PICKS OUT OF 900 MATCHES
Apparently no one else does
>>344567239
He was broken enough back in closed beta when he had ONE orb that didn't break. It made the flanker heroes a nuisance to deal with.
>>344566118
There is literally no point in throwing ideas if you don't first agree that Lúcio and Mercy are broken.
With his current design, he would have to be a better killer than a DPS hero to be picked in place of Lúcio/Mercy.>just redesign him :^)is completely dumb.
Should I just go support my first few games in OW? I have no idea how any of the characters work.
>>344567395
okay, cool, I never said he got picked, his right click is fine for the most part though. The only thing I could think of would be a) a faster charge time or b) a faster fire rate when you actually release the orbs, there's a tiny delay between each that can be liable to get you killed if you're fighting a mccree or a widow
>>344567585
Play Soldier 76 or someone like Reaper, they are simple enough so you can get a feel of the game.
Or Mercy if you enjoy support play
Give him a 36" degree bullet deflecting ability in place of his right click.
( cool down of 8 seconds, lasers and tracking weapons still hit him like with all other deflects)
Increase HP by 50.
Nerf discord damage increase by 15%
Whenever an enemy dies with orb of discord, you get an additional 5 percent damage boost on orb of discord ( stacks up to 4 times)
>>344566787
Nigga no.
I'd settle for +5 extra damage so that he can two shot a Junkrat tire instead of hitting it twice and leaving it at 10 hp.
Also, buff right click so it does the standard orb damage.
Everyone has a problem with the orb Line of Sight deal. How about it freezes the timer whenever you're looking directly at whoever you have the orb on but once you look away the timer continues where it left off. Prevents fire and forget but lets you heal that one faggot that just sprints away from you with half health.
Also, if you've Discorded an enemy you need to keep looking at them and can't attack anyone else if you want to keep the orb on them.
Thoughts on the orb timer thing?
>>344567086
Have to make him broken so he gets as much play as Mercy/Lucio in competitive play ;)
>>344567593
yeah but you said everyone else knows how to use him using sarcasm. and that means everyone else knows how, and they still dont fucking pick him you inept cocksleeve.
>>344567585
There is a Tutorial and Practice Range where you can try out all of the characters.
>>344567973
My suggestions are quite shitty and imbalanced. I think a proper buff would be to remove the LOS thing on harmony orb but keep discord how it is. Also I think Zen should be 200 hp, but does Mercy and Lucio get 200 hp while also being way more mobile? Doesn't make any sense.
Everyone knows HOW to use Zenyatta... but theres no point when you can play a much better class at support or flanking and you can still get shut down pretty easily.
Give him some defensive options, be it a speed increase, dash/teleport, shield etc. He needs SOMETHING to stay in the fight.
Also the fact that:
Mercy - has mobilty, 200hp, and auto full health regen
Lucio - has mobility, 200hp, and can heal himself to full health
>While
Zenyetta - has no mobility, 150hp, and can ONLY regen 100 hp is pure retarded.
(Symmetra is not a support no matter how hard blizzard push it)
The fuck were the people at blizzard thinking
+50 hp
Harmony has a weaker AoE heal around the main target of his orb
Discord can be seen by allied players like it appears to Zeny
There now he is an ACTUAL support
>>344568239
>but does
Oh man I meant why instead of but
>>344568023
What the fuck are you getting so mad about dude, I'm just trying to discuss a character's abilities and you're taking it personally. You said no one used the right click, and I disagreed. This doesn't have anything to do with his pickrate. Maybe go outside and take a breather.
>>344567585
Do practice mode once with each character. Then you'll know who you enjoy.
Soldier 76 is really easy to play. Point and shoot. E to heal. RMB to missile.
>>344567239
People don't pick Zen because he's an healer. He's great at debuffing enemies and can cement a good push with his ult, but if your team need a healer it's not going to be him.
>>344566523
How about it debuffs enemies like the other orb
>>344568373
nah it's two seperate people you're replying to. and we both said he's not picked in comp or pro because hes not worth the slot. cocksleeve.
>>344566334
Zenyatta is a healer like soldier is a healer, you imbecile
Give him more mobility and he's fine.
His lowered healing amount compared to Mercy is fine since he's going to be healing, and debuffing at the same time, as well as dealing damage, while Mercy is only going to be healing at any given moment. With the superior damage your team will be doing, you should be killing the enemy team before anyone takes serious damage.
>>344568428
Should I look at some guides for characters I enjoy for some pro strats? I kinda want to be good at this game.
>>344569000
The best and quickest way would be to find some friends and play every character you can, even if you hate them.
When you know how every character plays you know better how to deal with them and how on certain maps different classes perform on.
>>344568330
This
But with a small boost in move speed and a passive levitation bonus to ignore ground based effects.
>>344569000
Won't hurt to look up tutorials for each hero, but it's more important to know when to pick them and in which comp. Like picking Hanzo is almost always a bad idea, and having both Tracer and Genji on the same team is almost always a bad idea.
And most of all, don't stare yourself blind on the "Offence/Defence/Tank/Support" labels on the hero select screen, if you only pick Defense heroes when your team is on defense you will get steamrolled by the attacking team because they will have better mobility and accuracy than your lineup.
25 more shield
or
Make his ultimate charge faster but reduce the duration so it becomes like a ice block
>>344568328
>teleport
We Dahlsim now
Ive always thought about giving Zenyatta buffs when his orbs were out. Dont know exactly what though. Maybe a movement buff when his harmony orb is out, and a health buff when his discord orb is out. Possibly throw in a third buff that happens when he has both out? Help his problems, but only when you're playing to his strengths.
>>344569203
>>344569326
I've got it now. The number of characters is really intimidating to me (even TF2 gave me that feeling) so I have no idea what to pick and I don't want to fuck it up for my allies since I've heard team composition is huge in this game.
Give him a desert eagle
Give him an eyepatch
>>344569695
Maybe a sort of "puppetmaster" buff, when the character you've Harmony Orb'd attacks the person you Discord Orb'd, you get nirvana
Rework his rightclick and make a protectional barrier like Reinsshield just with lower health and that it reduces damahe instead of absorbing it.
>>344569834
If you always want to be useful, play Reinhardt or Mercy/Lucio whenever you team doesnt have one. If you already have both, play Soldier 76 because he almost never is BAD.
Then you can start branching out when you feel comfortable enough that you know what the team needs.
>>344567705
Reaper is terrible for a beginner. You need to know the maps by memory to be effective with him and know what and what not to engage.
>>344566118
faster healing/faster ult build (ult building from damage done either directly or via spheres would be neat) His biggest problem desu is that his ult happens slower than the other healers.
Zenyatta on defence with torb and sym is pretty damn powerful. You just cant kill that fuck in time with the amount of burst he can do to you.
>>344570449
None of that matters if you're playing with/against other beginners. Then Reaper is just good because he is easy to kill with and has a get out of jail free card.
>>344570452
Also he needs more armor, and more damage, also a shield on right click, and his left click should bounce enemies, and a self heal.
>>344566523
make him immune to all CC on top of damage
>>344566118
Buff him to 200hp
Or nerf Mercy and Lucio to 150hp
>>344570449
If you're a beginning playing with other beginners, walking behind a building in front of you and flanking the enemy team will probably be enough. Soldier: 76 requires more precision to be effective and has to attack head-on, where as Reaper can do both and still smash through Reinhardt's shield with ease.
>>344570680
>Or nerf Mercy and Lucio to 150hp
Suddenly all supports are garbage without a Symmetra on the team
+25 HP
+Ability that lets him Yoga-teleport either to his friendly orb target or a blink like Tracer's but about 2-3x as far and with a 10 sec CD.
+Right click is now a shotgun orb. 30-50% Higher overall damage if all fragments hit, lower if less than half hit.
>>344570626
ult build is literally all he needs. Extra healing would get there.
>>344570614
I've been playing with a couple of friends that just bought the game a few days ago and they keep getting paired with rank 80+ players. If they join my group we'll get multiple 100+ on the opposite team and we'll get 30- in our team.
I never fucking realized how bad the matchmaking was until I played with someone else, shit's abysmal.
>>344570786
Well it's either that or a double healer meta like we have now
>>344570840
No no, he needs to do more damage and needs a shield too.
It can't be that I tank the point in koth and other people kill me.
>>344570868
>rank 80+ players
You're thinking about level, not rank.
Also levels dont mean shit in terms of actual skill. I've seen level 200+ players that are complete and utter garbage, they just have played a lot of games. Even Quick Play has an invisible MMR system so it might mean that those high leveled players just are bad in general.
>>344566118
I guess some of these, but not all, would make Zenyata decent.
>Increase move speed
>Increase his health a little or simply change it to be entirely shield
>Let him heal trough walls
>Change ult to everyone getting a heal orb at the same time
>Let him use the debuff ability to buff allies and give them 25% extra damage
>No knock-back on his chargeable secondary fire.
>all these people trying to suggest their own original ability donut steel instead of just suggesting slight tweaks
>>344571043
Wouldnt matter if the supports almost get oneshot by fucking everything
>>344570503
To know that, the average shitter would have to try instead of playing him 13 minutes, get rekt, go to reddit and complain.
>>344571121
Ranks matter, no matter how inept you're at videogames after you've spent all that time playing a game things start getting through your skull, stuff like map layouts, counters, ults... meanwhile my friends are chucklefucks that haven't played anything else that isn't MOBA shit and console games for the past years, it's a nightmare to watch them.
>>344566614
Yeah that's the fucking point. That's his weakness. Everyone is supposed to have a weakness why the fuck would they just take away his weakness retard
>>344571463
>Ranks matter
Yes. LEVELS dont matter.
And just because you've played 200h doesn't mean that you can actually aim if you have 1400 DPI and 20 ingame sens like a retard.
And retards at level 200+ will still pick their "main" and only their main. Usually something useless like Widow, Genji or Hanzo.
>>344571229
40 hours Zenyatta here
>+5 damage on orbs to kill Tracer in 2 hits, bring his DPS more in line with other characters
>M2 is now a spread against flankers
>orb of harmony +1 second duration
>orb of discord now wallhacks the target like Hanzo/Widowmaker to the whole team
>>344571625
His healing is mediocre, he has no mobility and he has no health.
His ult is worse than Lucios.
The only thing he is GOOD at is dps/melting tanks. And even then his rightclick is almost useless.
>>344566118
Give him self-healing every time he heals someone.
Give him armor damage reduction whenever he has an active Orb of Discord.
Change his ult to scrap the AoE heal, but he can now toss out infinite orbs for 10 seconds.
Change his secondary so the damage is 45 per shot (same as his primary) and each charged orb blocks up to 45 damage each while he's charging.
Now he has more defense options without directly increasing his health, they're based on aggressively and effectively using his abilities, his ult compliments his playstyle instead of going against it, and he's still countered by characters with a high per-hit damage like the snipers, Junkrat, Pharah, etc.
>>344566523
Make it where he gives orbs to everyone in his current ultimate area while keeping the invul portion of it
Start by nerfing his ult so the rest of him can be greatly improved. That ult is always going to force them to keep his powerlevel outside of using ult underpar with the rest of the cast just like McCree.
Could use a shield increase, heal should stay on after breaking line of sight longer so it can function and get a slight buff so he can function better as a solo healer. Also increase his reload speed.
>>344566972
Every hero but genji, tracer, and speed buff lucio has the same movement speed. More health is enough he doesn't need both
He's an offensive support, he's not meant to have a lot of health but he doesn't have the movement to back it up.
He needs a speed boost of around 25% to be decent enough to escape and survive.
His healing orbs need to lose line of sight, or have at least two active ones at a time.
>>344572419
Just ditching the LoS requirement doesn't work, when he was like that in closed beta people just picked Zen and put an orb on Tracer/Genji and let them go nuts on the backline. The orb needs to ignore LoS but have an active timer instead so he can't upkeep it on flankers forever.
Give him 1 hp and 150 shield.
Make it so he floats upward while you hold space.
>>344572658
Lose line of sight but it can't be placed on an ally with full health and automatically expires when the ally is fully healed.
>>344566118
Make a Rapid discord achievement easier.
>>344572780
Like that you must be able to place more than one though
>all of these fucking genji turbo sperg ''mainers'' plaguing quick play
>trying to heal retarded teammates who can't deal with one genji locking them down and feeding him ultimate 5 times a minute
>switch to mccree
>its too late
every time
>>344566118
Either:
>Buff movespeed by 25%
Or:
>Can apply healing orb to himself
>>344572780
That's actually a pretty good idea...
>>344572994
>trying to counter Genji with McCree and not Roadhog
>>344572994
>>344573094
>Countering Gneji with McCree or Roadhog and not Winston
https://www.instagram.com/sinanyucel98/
>>344573164
>they try to reflect the tickles
>>344566523
Make it so that his transcendence spawns a clone instead of zenyatta doing the transcendence and you move him like Junkrat's RIP-tire
That way Zenyatta can push with his ult with the rest of the team while staying safe
>>344573258
>They try to dash away from the hot monkey dick
>>344566118
i dunno but god damn that's a lot of power cells
>>344573303
Now you're just trying to give him a Stand.
Let's back it up a bit.
>>344566118
kill him off and have a reaper skin using his head as a mask
>all those fucking arms
>Can't attack during his ult
That'd be a nice start.
>>344569868
Finally, someone who actually understands how balancing works.
>>344566118
>this thread
>"give him more health"
>"make him faster"
>"make him weaker"
>"change his ult"
Zenyatta is FINE, stop blaming the hero and start blaming the player, anyone who's willing to learn something new can play him fine.
Retards keep treating him like Lucio and Mercy and that's not how he's fucking played
He was considered borderline OVERPOWERED before they made his orbs require line of sight, and they only did that because they didn't like people just leaving an orb on someone forever.
If he absolutely needs to be changed again, remove the line of sight requirement and give players a reason to switch targets
where are zenyatta's eyes?
>>344572767
>Make it so he floats upward while you hold space.
This
>>344574341
>Zenyatta is FINE
>Retards don't know how to play him
>0% pick rate
Yeah, totally fine.
>>344574341
>Zenyatta is FINE, stop blaming the hero and start blaming the player
So blame nobody, because nobody plays him who isn't a "retard who treats him like Lucio and Mercy"? Anyone who spent enough time mastering Zenyatta so far seems to have only learned not to play him competitively.
>>344573601
You mean car keys?
>>344574341
I think it's hilarious how these threads kind of just troll everyone into admitting they don't know how to play the game.
Man, I was just having a great time as Zenyatta. I had 3 gold medals for half the game while someone kept yelling at me to change to a different healer. We ended up winning and I still had the most kills.
These CoD shitheads think every character needs to be reeled in to some kind of similar playstyle and they're terrified to get out of their comfort zone. It's so funny, to me.
>>344574629
>Tournament pickrate is a good judge of power!
It's a TERRIBLE judge of power, tournament players don't pick based on utility, they pick based on ease.
Zenyatta is not easy, therefor he never got picked, this does not make him bad no matter how many times you repeat yourself.
>>344574683
>learned not to play him competitively.
see above
>>344574823
I guess you got us good. How were your regional tournaments? How is it in the 150+ level bracket?
Oh... you just had a single decent experience playing him? That's... that's some great empirical data there, champ.
either more health or more speed
or just better than phara flying with a tiny bit more speed
>>344575009
not him, but read >>344575003
Tournaments don't mean SHIT and you are admitting to being a bad player by trying to use them as a way to judge a hero's viability
>>344571229
thats because this dude has critical flaws
>>344575430
Name them and I'll tell you why you're wrong
>>344566118
>Give him just two orbs. They become Discord or Harmony Orbs depending on whether you place them on an ally or enemy
>The Orbs function morel like objects and travel from target to target, rather than throwing another one every time you want to change.
>Change his Health to Armor OR a slight speed boost
>Transcendence allows him to ignore movement effects/pass through enemies
>Every M1 you land restores 25 shields.
I don't know, those are just ideas I have floating around everytime I play Zenyatta.
>>344575909
>Nerf him into the ground
no
>People actually arguing against buffing him
I refuse to even play bthis game anymore until it has more than 2 viable supports
>>344576056
I didn't nerf him though.
>>344576151
He's overpowered as it is, he doesn't need buffs.
>>344576151
The best support is the one that kills their team
>>344575003
Oh hey, you're that guy who doesn't know what tournament play represents.
There are plenty of characters whose ease of use is as hard as Zenyatta, if not harder. Zen is the only character where every competitive player unanimously agreed that there are zero situations where Zenyatta is more useful than any other character. It has nothing to do with ease.
>>344576270
tournament play is a joke in this game and I refuse to take seriously anyone who takes tournament shit seriously
>>344576173
You made his Discord orb into something no one's going to use anymore and removed his ability to heal on command, pretty much making him outclassed by everyone else
>>344576401
What else are you going to use, quick play where the average player is braindead and doesn't know how to counter a Torb turret? I'd rather the game be balanced based on players who actually know what they're doing.
>>344575003
Zenyatta offers absolutely nothing that justifies switching out your Mercy/Lucio/DPS to run. A top team is literally gimping themselves if they run him under ANY circumstance.
>>344566118
increase health
>>344576494
I did no such thing. In fact, he can have two Discord Orbs, two Harmony Orbs or just one of each if he wants.
>>344576270
>you're that guy who doesn't know what tournament play represents.
Multiple people call you out on retarded shit, what a surprise
>There are plenty of characters whose ease of use is as hard as Zenyatta
No there aren't
>Zen is the only character where every competitive player unanimously agreed that there are zero situations where Zenyatta is more useful than any other character. It has nothing to do with ease.
You got a quote on that? Because otherwise that's bullshit
>>344576628
>+50% damage against an enemy
>Long ranged healing to reduce chances of being targeted
>Great offensive power while still supporting
>Simillar Ult to lucio's that has its own purpose
You've got four great reasons right there
>>344576724
Why use discord at all when you can heal two people at once?
>>344576957
Planetoverwatch.com
He has 0 picks out of 900 pro matches
>>344577059
>LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALA
That's fine, you're still wrong
>>344577034
>Why use discord at all when you can heal two people at once?
Up to you to judge when to play aggressive or passive.
how to fix zenyatta:
for every los harmony and discord ball, he gets a double speed boost (one orb gives one speed boost), he loses the speed boosts when his targets go out of sight
Maybe make him a cute girl...
Yeah, cute girl with blades who can dash, deal area of effects damage, and slow, and also have attack speed boost, and skill shot.
Let allies see enemies that have orb of discord through walls.
Orb of harmony makes whoever has it move 20% faster, but reduce the healing done to 20/s instead of 30/s. If the orb isn't on anyone, it makes zenyatta himself move 20% faster.
Make both orbs last 6 seconds when out of LOS rather than 3.
Both orbs last a flat 10 seconds, in or out of LoS.
When both orbs are in play, Zenyatta gets the "Balanced" buff: +100 Shield.
>>344576601
Why use anything but 3 characters in tournament?
>>344566118
Give him a magic carpet and let him temporarily be able to fly, like pharah.
Seriously, hero fixed
>>344576957
Discord is +30%, not 50%, and goes away if the enemy hides behind a pole for 3 seconds or Zenyatta dies. Emphasis on the second one. Zenyatta has 150 health and zero damage mitigation. He dies in a stiff breeze, which means the uptime on discord ends up being very low.
Same deal with long-range healing: it goes away 3 seconds after your teammate doesn't have line of sight, which means you need to be close to them unless you're in an area with little cover, in which case you're in a sniper alley.
Zen's primary does 135 DPS if you can hit every shot, which is easier said than done when he has really slow projectiles. While this makes him the best damage dealer of the support classes, it's not that much in the long run. And again, you do 0 damage when you're dead, and he dies often.
His ult is limited to 10 meters and is a 100 HP per second heal, which means not only is it useless against high burst damage but it forces Zen to park himself right in the middle of the fighting, which goes against his playstyle and makes him a big fat fragile target the moment it ends.
Just because you can stomp retarded pubs in quick play doesn't mean he's OP.
Make the orbs work without line of sight. +50 hp and movement speed only when he has both on orb of harmony and an orb of discord on someone
>>344577587
That's the exact reason why they should balance around tournament play, to get rid of situations like that. Balancing around casual play just exacerbates that problem because the people who know what they're doing will flock to the better characters.
>>344577705
>Discord is +30%, not 50%
it's 50%, check the wiki
>Zenyatta has 150 health and zero damage mitigation. He dies in a stiff breeze, which means the uptime on discord ends up being very low.
Stop trying to tank
>Same deal with long-range healing: it goes away 3 seconds after your teammate doesn't have line of sight, which means you need to be close to them unless you're in an area with little cover, in which case you're in a sniper alley.
Alright 8/10 You had me good
>>344577705
Disregard discord being +30%, I had that mixed up with another ability for some reason. Still, point still stands that it does +0% when you're dead, and Zen is the most fragile character in the game.
>but don't die!
Easier said than done when literally all of his abilities require him to be in danger.
>>344566523
Just have him give enemies in it a discord debuff, might make it OP but mercy is in the game so whatever.
>>344576957
>+50% damage against an enemy
That goes away after they're out of LoS for 2 seconds and Zen is unable to afford to peak. Meanwhile, Mercy's damage boost gives 30%+ damage which can be used to pressure Rein's barrier and she can stay in a safer position.
>Long ranged healing to reduce chances of being targeted
Also requires strict LoS that renders it useless due to Zen's inability to afford peaking. Also is outclassed by Mercy's standard healing
>Great offensive power while still supporting
Many other heroes effortlessly out DPS him.
>Simillar Ult to lucio's that has its own purpose
His Ult is one of the worst in the game. Distracting as fuck visual effect, pathetic AoE range, and does not directly save anyone's life from anything that does greater damage than your allies health or does more than 100 DPS, while Sound Barrier applies so much additional health, it can be thought of as a team-wide Ubercharge.
Give him two orbs of harmony.
>>344577963
see >>344577991
>Stop trying to tank
Yeah, totally trying to tank when I'm behind the rest of my team throwing orbs and still die to a stray bullet.
make his right click home in on discord targets
done
>He's literally surrounded by orbs.
>can only set out 1 at a time.
SAD!
Make his right click use his orbs as a shield that depletes his ammo as he takes damage
>>344578014
>unable to afford to peak
>Zen's inability to afford peaking
That's completely wrong though, if you're not in the front lines, chances are you're not going to even be noticed.
>Many other heroes effortlessly out DPS him.
And none of them are support heroes
>and does not directly save anyone's life from anything that does greater damage than your allies health or does more than 100 DPS, while Sound Barrier applies so much additional health, it can be thought of as a team-wide Ubercharge.
First of all, if anyone is doing that much damage at once, Lucio's ult isn't going to save them either
Second, an urber charge makes your target invincible for a few seconds, Lucio's ult adds a rapidly fading shield that can still be eaten through.
For example, Junkrat's tire will still kill people effected by Lucio's ult, they are not invincible for the duration.
>>344578112
1/10 for trying to push it
When your bait is called out, don't try to pretend it never happened, you just look upset when you do.
>>344577963
>>344578819
>Stop trying to tank
Bastion turret at max damage falloff kills him in 1.25 seconds. Bastion recon kills him in a full mag at anything less than 90% damage falloff. Widowmaker kills him in two body shots and the second can be at 25% charge. McCree kills him in two body shots with no damage falloff and a single clip at max damage falloff. S76 kills him in under a second at no damage falloff and a single clip at anything less than 92% falloff. A Torb turret kills him in 2 and a half seconds. And that's just considering hitscan range weapons. That's not including Hanzo's arrows, that's not including Mei's secondary, that's not including Pharah who doesn't even need a direct hit to kill you in 2 seconds, that's not including D.Va or Winston going after you, that's not including needing to be close-range to keep line of sight, that's not including dying easily to a stray shot from literally anything else.
>stop pointing out the truth, it's bait!
>>344579160
All of these high damage situations can kill anyone else just as easily
>>344579343
And it kills Zen much easier because he has tied for the lowest health with zero mobility, defensive or self-support options. The only thing he has is that 100 of his health is shields, but that only helps after you disengage from a fight, which usually means breaking line of sight on both the enemy and ultimately any ally who needs healing.
>>344566118
50 Armor 100 Shield
>>344579343
No they can't, because they have by definition more health or in Tracer's case two ways to escape
>>344577132
Why are you quoting yourself?
Have his hps match Mercy's, because he is in no way sufficient as a solo support as Mercy and Lucio are.
>>344579695
quoting the other guy since he was just ignoring whatever I said
>>344578206
(you)
1HP+149 shields
>now has a third ability where he uses an orb to heal himself
>increase orb projectile speed
>>344579761
He was responding to your retarded dismissal that competitive players don't play Zenyatta >>344576957 by giving actually proof of his competitive usage >>344577059
So the only one saying "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALA" is yourself.
Stop playing overwatch. There, that was easy.
>>344579906
1 armor+149 shields
Not having armor DR probably kills him the most because he can die so easily from stray low-damage shots.
>>344579553
>>344579663
Having more health and/or mobility does not make it do less damage, the damage is still the same and everyone else can still die just as easily, your picking Zenyatta out of the crowd because you're bad with him and need to tell yourself that it's the hero that is the problem instead of yourself.
And if you need to disengage from a fight, then there's a bigger problem than your line of sight.
>>344580021
Facts and reason are now the same as "etarded dismissal" while flat out dismissing anything someone says just so you can keep trying to push an already debunked argument?
No, that is entirely wrong
>>344579906
I do like this idea. The amount of times I've been one-shotted because I took some damage, let my shields recover, and assumed I'd be alright to be a tad more offensive. Having all your health recoverable (and I wouldn't say no to it being a unique shield type that behaves like a mild armour) would help tremendously to his lastability.
>>344580309
>Having more health and/or mobility does not make it do less damage
More health means it takes longer to die.
More mobility means it's easier to avoid damage. More defensive abilities means it's easier to mitigate or self-heal damage. Zenyatta is the most fragile hero in the game and no amount of warped thinking will change that fact. Your abilities do nothing when you're dead.
>Facts and reason
Thanks for the laugh.
>>344580625
>Your abilities do nothing when you're dead.
I think you're on to something anon.
Make Harmony last a few seconds after death and have Discord stay until a couple seconds after you respawn.
>>344580625
I don't know what else to say to you
Having more health and/or mobility does not make something do less damage
>Thanks for the laugh.
That's exactly the attitude you should't use
>>344580826
>Having more health and/or mobility does not make something do less damage
At no point was that argued, but you fail to understand what words mean so that's not my fault.
Anyone who thinks they're doing well as Zenyatta. Come to comp.
I will play Tracer. I will find you. I will 1 clip you. He needs 50 more health, slight nerf to discord and then his heal needs to work around line of sight.
>>344580992
You're trying to change the subject away from high damage killing heroes easily while also trying to make high damage killing Zenyatta easily a reason not to play him
>>344581015
>Tracer runs up to me
>discord
>either has to run or die
>>344581131
>I don't understand what words mean and this confuses me. This is your fault.
High damage kills heroes easily but heroes with high mobility, defense and/or self-heal can remove or mitigate that damage. Zenyatta has nothing, which is why he's the easiest hero to kill.
E now make Zen hover, allowing him to stay at the height he started as for a few seconds
Orb of Harmony and Destruction don't change.
People shooting Zen or the person healed by him cast on have an Orb of Destruction placed on them, nerfed to 33% more damages. Ult keep this effect.
>>344580826
If you're dead you do less damage. More health mean you die harder.
Having more mobility gives you better opportunities to both not die and get more hits.
I'm not sure why these are hard concepts to grasp.
>>344581229
>before you get a second shot off she has already melted you to dust
>rewind
Attacking discarded targets gives you an overshield. Change health to armour. Make his right click a short range blink and maybe make insult push back enemies. I would also make his heal a bursting differentiate him further from other healers.
>>344566118
>Out of line of sight orbs only do 15% damage/healing but don't fall off until you die/change targets
>Movement speed buff
>Right click charge becomes an AOE style attack where you just shoot orbs out around you rather than a concentrated attack
>The ability to throw orbs while also charging/reloading
>200HP
Honestly any of these would be a satisfactory improvement.
>>344581229
A discorded Tracer takes 3 bodyshots to kill as Zenyatta, which takes one second. Tracer takes 5/8 of a second to kill Zenyatta with no falloff and can also blink to fuck with your aim (remember your orbs aren't hitscan) and recall to self-heal.
>>344581693
Make his ultimate push back enemies *
>You have ushered them to paradise
what did it mean by this?
>>344582286
>zenyatta is actually robot allah
>>344581504
And this is why you lost the argument, you're trying to deny anything that doesn't help you
>>344581607
see >>344581131
>>344581651
>>344581851
Tracer can kill everyone just as fast if she hits all her shots 100% of the time, this is true
But we're not talking about a fantasy land here, we're talking about what actually happens
Tracer is not going to hit every shot, most of the time Tracer is going to have to rewind and try again, after that rewind if she does not kill him she has to run away or risk dying.
Also who said Zenyatta is alone?
>>344582484
>And this is why you lost the argument, you're trying to deny anything that doesn't help you
>"I still don't know what words mean, why does my brain hurt, this is all your fault, waaahhhh"
>Tracer is not going to hit every shot, most of the time Tracer is going to have to rewind and try again, after that rewind if she does not kill him she has to run away or risk dying.
Because it's totally hard for her to keep her reticle on a target with zero mobility abilities for just over half a second.
>Also who said Zenyatta is alone?
Doesn't matter when Tracer can kill Zen faster than any teammate can react and then recall.
Give his orbs a small AoE effect, making his healing a true hybrid of Lucio/Mercy. His debuffing ability also becomes a bit better.
>>344566118
Give him a long cooldown (~15 sec) blink.
This lets him keep his distance until he wants to ult, or creep up with his ult and use it as a getaway. Gives him the mobility he desperately needs while not taking away from his current kit.
they have kind of shafted him by making his gimmick take up all his keybind slots though. Any buff would realistically need to be a passive one which complicates things.
Giving him the same HP as the other healers seems like a fair enough buff to me.
>>344582862
>Because it's totally hard for her to keep her reticle on a target with zero mobility abilities for just over half a second.
Only if you stand completely still
>Doesn't matter when Tracer can kill Zen faster than any teammate can react and then recall.
I see the problem now
Your side of this argument is based on theories and numbers
My side of this argument is based on experience
>>344566118
blizz needs to decide whether he's a debuffer or a healer
i get the yin/yang symbolism is his gimmick or whatever but they can't make him a better healer because his debuffing is so good
honestly they should replace the heal with something else seeing as it's next to worthless anyway, and give him a little better mobility
>>344582484
>Also who said Zenyatta is alone?
Zenyatta's ideal position is just behind the front line, where he's a perfect target for flankers.
>>344566994
Its useful for sneaking shots at bastion, but that is about all
>>344583473
Your "experience" is limited to low MMR quick play pubs, probably on console, and therefore irrelevant. It's easy as fuck to keep your aim trained on one character for half a second when all they can do is move around normally.
Make his primary fire hit scan.
>>344583003
How about instead of that, His orb of harmony passively heals teammates like a lucio but only does single target healing like mercy, once it's target is full health, it will heal the next one, prioritizing people with less health than others.
His left shift could then be used to make his healing stronger on the target for a short amount of time.
His discord orb in my opinion is fine though and doesn't need work.
>>344584101
Almost a cool idea except the left shift.
He should have a hover ability on shift instead similar to how mercy can hover but without any drop for a few seconds.
>>344583793
>Your experience doesn't meet my qualifications for valid, so it's irrelevant
Well in that case, your "data" is limited by numbers and videos of people playing, you have no sense on how the game actually plays or how your theoretical situations for Zenyatta will actually play out.
I suppose your next trick is to start screaming about rank numbers, yes?
We're just going in circles now, I point out facts, you deny facts, I point out why you're wrong, you deny why you're wrong, I point out facts, ect
I'm going to play a game now
>>344584101
I dunno, that feels too automatic to me. It should still be up to the player to make sure they're healing the right guy.
Really though, I think healing shouldn't be his main focus. His debuffs/DPS are his niche, but because of his low survivability he can't take advantage of that.
Let him fly, replace his health with armor.
>>344584281
>jump hovering over gaps
That's pretty cool. It could even work like D.va's flight and allow you to go vertically.
>>344572994
>Play Reinhardt
>Genji shooting his shitty Shuriken at me
> Tell team to switch to a character to lock him down
>No one does this
>We get wiped 5 times with Dragonblade everytime try to push
>>344584295
Numbers are based on facts. If a Tracer is 10 m or less and keeps her aim on Zenyatta for 5/8 of a second, Zenyatta will die. That cannot be argued against; it's a hard simple fact. Zenyatta has no method to escape, block or mitigate that damage beyond normal movement, therefore the only variable is whether the Tracer player is capable of keeping his aim on Zenyatta for 5/8 of a second, which is really fucking easy to do even if Zenyatta is moving around. Since your experience apparently includes Tracer players who can't aim that well, the conclusion is that your experience is primarily against shitty players.
This seems to be a constant recurrence in your arguments. You seem to be under the impression that other people being incapable of aiming means Zenyatta as a character is not as fragile as everyone else thinks he is, which is simply false. Again, there's a reason why he's picked literally never in tournament player, even with 1 per character limits, because tournament players generally (to a point) are capable of playing at a higher skill level.
>>344584367
Well how about making his shift cause an enemy to have a feeling of tranquility by throwing a harmony orb at them while the passive harmony orb healing is done to your teammates.
It will act as a slow and a mobility ability disabler, you can then throw a discord orb at them and fuck them up.
>>344570868
desu I just assumed that quickplay doesn't have skill-based matchmaking at all. Apparently it does, which baffles me.
Make him as mobile as Genji.
A fucking bonkers robot monk flipping around and hurling hurt balls would be amazing, but keeping his health at 150 would make him hard to hit but easy to shut down.
>>344576227
Soldier 76?
I once daydreamed that shooting at enemies with the discord orb would give his shots a small degree of tracking(say a 5-10 degree curve) on enemies
>>344568010
source for that manga?
>>344579160
You forgot Junkrat, who can just kill him by accident
>>344584295
Even if what you're saying is right, which it isn't, the fact that you can't grasp the concept of "characters with more mobility and/or health die less frequently" sort of ruins any other arguments you might have.
>>344566118
We could start by making allies see which enemy he uses discord orb on.
>>344566523
Everyone in his ult are unaffected by CC. Done.
>>344566118
While both orbs are out, get some movement buff. Either Lucio amp-tier speed or maybe a double jump
I'm a big fan of the "balance" mechanic that people have been throwing around, giving him a buff when he has both orbs out.
how about we start by fiixing the servers instead and let them run on a FPS normal tick rate.
I bet wow, hearthstone and hots run on more than fucking overwatch and you all are fucking retarded and blizzdrones for sucking their dick.
Give him an escape like mercy. remove his charge attack and give him a teleport.
Make his ultimate something else. His new ultimate should be him throwing out orbs to all teammates within range that heal at an increased rate. He cannot attack during this but is still invincible.
Health increase or give him armor.
