Is Big Boss actually supposed to be evil?
He's evil in MG1 and 2, sure, but in basically every MGS game he's portrayed as a hero, and MGS was kind of a reboot of the series. I mean, suddenly Snake is the clone of Big Boss and nuclear weapons are everywhere again? Maybe we had it all wrong. Maybe Big Boss is only supposed to be a villain in the eyes of the arrogant world powers? There's characters like Rubber Duck and Jogging Man in the MG games, and they're obviously non-canon. Is it safe to consider the MG games a non-canon jumping off point now?
Yes, he's a villain.
Don't be stupid.
Solid snake killing "evil" big boss in mg2 is supposed to mirror naked snake killing "evil" the boss in mgs3
>>344548698
He doesn't seem like a villain in MGS1, MGS2, MGS3, MGS4, PW, GZ or TPP.
Solidus is the perfect clone of Big Boss, and you'll find 'Solidus did nothing wrong and was a hero' posts all the time because he just wanted liberty, the same as Big Boss.
It's difficult to say. He's a hero and good guy in the players' eyes but in the end he is taking advantage of wars to fuel MSF. The idea of giving soldiers a place to call home sounds noble but wanting wars and battles to happen to satisfy himself and his men isn't particularly good or heroic.
>>344548952
That's what I said, he's no more a villain than the boss is.
>>344548610
Sometimes a villain, sometimes he's not, the real villain is Kojima shitty writing that can't even write coherent character development.
>>344548610
Each game in the series shows you that the line between good and evil is blurred, "villains" can good intentions, and "heroes" can do some questionable things.
Big Boss has been a hero, doing what he thinks is right, but by the time he was at war with the Patriots (1984-1999) he's done enough immoral things to be considered a villain to the likes of Solid Snake.
>HURR DURR WANTING ENDLESS WARFARE IS EVIL
>humanity has been at war since day 1 regardless
All he wanted was to be a mercenary, really. Mercenaries have been around for thousands of years. Ain't no thing. It's only autistic weeaboos over at the MGS wiki who make up all this shit about his 'philosophy'.
>>344548952
If you think Big Boss and Solidus were justified you're a child
even MGS4 is Big Boss admitting he fucked up and was just as responsible for ruining the world as Zero was
>>344548610
Big boss is only good because kojima tried to make people care more about him than snake like raiden. He failed miserably again. Mgs5 turned him into a complete loser who can't even fight his own battles
He says so himself at the end of MGS4: His ideals of Outer Heaven and the Patriots (AI) ruined the worlfd.
With MGS3 you get the roots of his disillusion and PO furthers that little by little.
But you never get a real "villainous" moment in the games that follow. He just ends up taking advantage of warfare like any other military leader would have but we just see just another man coping with his situation.
If anything we can take the simplistic view of the MSX games as what Solid Snake has been told about him from the Patriots perspective if anything else.
In V we see that he is actually a saint and everything he's done that could be considered bad is a misunderstanding or propaganda.
>>344550453
venom is a dindu but while he was disarming all the nukes, BB was making more behind his back
>>344548610
no one is "evil" in mgs, it's not fucking capeshit, plz go
>>344550453
this
kojimer never actually succeeded to transform the character into genuine villain material
he's either a saint (anything past MGS) or a genocidal maniac (MG 1-2, due to simplistic writing)
the closest he got to showing off a villainous rendition of BB was with Solidus
>>344550753
Arguibly shit walker makes boss evil by turning her into a singing robot of a cunt instead of the unsung war hero of 3
MG1 and MG2 are better than 4, PW and V.
Also it's Dirty Duck and Running Man
>>344548610
He's a villain. For the first few games in the series he's just a complete monster before MGS3 showed how he became a villain and developed his crazy evil goals. Than Kojima started wanking him off in all the games instead of developing as a complex antagonist and he just seems like most of the time he was kinda okay before he decided to threaten to nuke the planet.
>>344548610
>in basically every MGS game he's portrayed as a hero
the only game he's even somewhat heroic in is 3. In Peace Walker he runs an international league of assassins who will kill anyone for money, and the game ends with him vowing that if the only thing standing between the world and world peace is his merc operation, he will wage war against literally everyone else just for the sake of soldiers never becoming redundant. and most of his soldiers are men he kidnapped and imprisoned until they caved in to his indoctrination methods.
in V he brainwashes a body double to be a huge walking target while he sets up a new private army in the middle of asia and refine his perpetual war machine.
>>344551714
You don't see him change into a bad guy, though.
He's basically two separate characters.
>>344550453
He sacrificed a load of innocent people and lied to and manipulated his loyal men for personal gain in V. Truly a saint.
>>344551913
>In Peace Walker he runs an international league of assassins who will kill anyone for money
Didn't Zadornov say this to Big Boss? I remember he got pretty mad and then denied to take up the job until Zadornov brought up The Boss
>>344552096
In MGS3 you see the event that made him a bad guy which is all you really need. Peace Walker and V were supposed to go into the actual slow change from good guy to nuclear terrorist but did an incredibly poor job of it, even when you take a step back and look at how fucked his actual actions are like this guy>>344551913 the execution is still lacking and it never feels like an actual change of character especially since we never get anything from him in V.
>>344552280
>personal gain
you don't know the definition of the word
the rest is also just vague bullshit that doesn't seem to mean anything until you actually explain your points in more detail
Yes
In the lecture Big Mama gives in MGS 4 makes it seem like Big Boss was just trying to fight the patriots the whole time and they sent Snake to stop him, implying Snake was the bad guy the whole time
>>344552547
>In MGS3 you see the event that made him a bad guy which is all you really need.
but he didn't become evil at that point, nowhere near at all
in peace walker he even went ahead with the concept of setting up a merc base that fights for opressed underdog nations, with the eventual outcome that peace on earth will be achieved
you can say that that's deluded, but even during GZ it was well on its way of becoming a success until it all got blown up at sea
in V, he sets up Zanzibar, but we don't follow his side of the story and we don't actually witness his character transition from where he was at GZ to MG2 (since 1 was retconned into him being Venom, but whatever)
the story we do follow has, eventually, has not a lot of consequence to his character - if any. Yeah, he allowed his right hand to become brainwashed, but Venom didn't become villain material either. He basically had a neutrally-sided merc base at sea and managed to save the world from some kind of weird-ass viral outbreak. Again, not villain material.
>>344553679
You see the most important event that changes him the most. At the end of MGS3 he's not eating babies yet but you can understand how he gets there after what happened, the rest is just details that worked better when they were left up to the viewers imagination. General gist of hist story arc was he was loyal good guy soldiers who was betrayed and used and then decades latter became a terrorist and created a rogue military state. Just from playing Snake Eater you could easily piece together how and why he did those things.
>>344553384
Big Mama should be taken with a grain of salt because she was nearly as infatuated with Big Boss as Ocelot himself was
>>344553384
Every playable character in the series is a pawn and just end up doing the bidding of some other rusemaster.
Solid Snake and Raiden were the Patriots' bitches.
Naked Snake was used by the US and EVA.
Big Boss was used by Cipher.
Venom was used by Big Boss.
>>344548610
He is villain but you dont really feel it since you play as him and everything he does is justified, both to him and us.
If PP was actually big boss, it could have pulled a Breaking Bad of sorts and slowly make the protagonist and us into villains ie: going NUCLEAR as we all wanted.
But kojima is retarded and a hack and forced konami to stop the madness he was doing with PP
