ITT how was I supposed to know?
Pic related.
Nobody ever told you that arrows that go through fire catch fire and can light up torches and nobody was expecting that amount of "realism" in the 90s
Did you know that you could play the Fire Temple before the Forest Temple?
Did you know you could do Jabu-Jabu's Belly before Dodongo's Cavern?
Did you know?
>>343993149
I dunno man, I did it just fine when I was seven.
>>343993319
I knew all of these except for early Jabu Jabu. Can you really just do that freely? Or do you have to sequence break. How am I still learning about this game?
Because OoT wasn't the first to do it. It wasn't even the first Zelda to do it. You fucking egodrone.
>>343993419
I'm not sure what would be stopping you from just going straight to Jabu after learning Zelda's Lullaby.
I could be forgetting something, though.
>>343993419
No sequence breaking. You can do it as an intended path.
how was I supposed to know to drill a hole in his head and inject myself with his blood?
>>343993540
A penis! My Christianity noooooooooooo!!!!!!!
>>343993495
I don't know why in the 10+ times I finished the game I always did the first 3 dungeons in that order of Deku/Dodogngo/Jabu
>>343993450
Which other game did it?
>>343993540
Ehh I'm pretty sure there were several notes lying around that mentioned some people had been injected with an antidote on their blood
>>343993747
Because Navi calls your attention to Death Mountain, and Zelda tells you to bring a letter to the dude at the gate leading up to it. The game pushes you in that direction, but there's no reason you can't do Jabu first.
Even more fucked up is shooting at the sun to unlock fire arrows. As an 8 year old on english speaker, it took me a whole fucking year to figure that shit out(a year of trial and error, stuck in ganons castle)
>>343993149
Navi LITERALLY tells you to try that
>>343993747
To be fair to you, the game does encourage you to go to Death Mountain first. Impa tells you to go there after you meet her.
Which honestly is pretty shitty since you need to go back to the forest to learn Saria's song before you can actually do Death Mountain. If you didn't find the shortcut, it would be a tedious walk back to Kokiri forest.
>>343993149
Amazing OP, you just managed to out yourself as even more retarded than those faggots ever having issues with S3/S3&K spinning barrels, who might soon appear.
>>343993747
It's neat because it gives you a chance to fuck around with the boomerang more before you're tossed into being an adult.
Is there a particular reason why Link just had to lose half his gear when turning into an adult?
Navi's there for a reason.
>>343993149
>Not using Din's fire
>>343994078
The same reason the Koriki children never grew up
>>343993831
I'm not that guy but didn't aLttP do it? I might be remembering it wrong.
>>343994078
It seemed like an arbitrary way to make young and adult Link have different playstyles. It doesn't really make much sense when he can just use all of that stuff in Majora's mask.
>>343994250
Yeah, it was a weird choice, then corrected by MM. It didn't diminish the experience for me, but I'm not everyone.
>>343994189
his gear is a peter pan ripoff?
>>343994250
I can buy Young Link not being able to use his future stuff. You can write that off as time travel bullshit.
I don't see though why Adult Link couldn't use a boomerang and slingshot. I mean TP Link had both.
>>343994250
All the MM equipment is much smaller. A lot of the kid equipment is too small for an adult's hands, with the exception of the boomerang.
>>343993495
You'd need bombs to make it past the line of rocks positioned near the beginning of Zora's River. Unless there's another way past, which there probably are but I don't know of them.
>>343993934
it's a joke senpai
only an idiot could not have known
Pic related is literally "HOW THE FUCK WAS I SUPPOSED TO KNOW: THE GAME"
To play the game at its full length and get the perfect ending. You NEED to follow a specific path and visit rooms in a specific order. And these are not linears, Like if you have 3 doors in a hallway, you might need to enter the one in the middle first.
Theres literally no indication of which path you should follow, the ONLY way to do it is by following a walkthrough, and a SINGLE mistake will lock you out of it.
>>343994250
Young LInk not being able to hold the Hylian SHield properly was a nice touch.
There might have been something with big blocks too (Before you get the gauntlets) but they never appear in areas that Young Link can go to anyway.
>>343994384
The slingshot being in Twilight Princess is just baffling. It gets replaced with the bow one dungeon later and never used again.
>>343994413
Ah, that's right. It would be really inconvenient to do Jabu before Dodongo then. Kind of lame that they put those rocks there honestly, it would have been nice to just be able to go to either one freely.
>>343994545
post the most obscure thing you had to do in the game to unlock the perfect ending.
OP is a troll but I can easily imagine people making the same complaint about Breathe of the Wild in 20 years.
"How the fuck was I suppose to know you can chop down scenery like trees to make a bridge when no other games did this?"
And then you can say "because it was in the E3 footage, you neo-RedditChan scrub."
>>343994682
It's still possible, though. There's some intentionally neutral dialog in the game meant to assume that some players did Jabu first.
>>343994545
Try and error, also, I don't remember if this game or the PSone one let you to savescum, it's not like these games require skill at all.
>>343993149
>>343993945
>>343993323
Op is stoopid
>>343993945
>>343994097
Navi doesn't tells you that arrows shot through fire catch fire as well.
>>343993149
they show you that torches light shit on fire by throwing fire bats at you druring the entire game. Also, they position torches in a way that you know something in a straight line could go through to light the other torch.
It's not rocket science, anon, even if we didn't expect that kind of TECHNOLOGY back then, we would still try to do that.
>>343994545
Not that it's puzzle-related, but Clock Tower is WAY easier if you have the mouse.
>>343994808
It's possible, but then again, so is doing any dungeon in any order if you go and get the item in one then leave with a couple exceptions.
I wouldn't really count those as you're obviously not intended to do that. It is nice that you can though.
>>343993419
You can do every dungeon after the one you should, you only need the main item/equipment of that dungeon. (Besides the Dodongos Cavern, because you need to finish deku tree to leave the forest).
>>343994545
>To play the game at its full length and get the perfect ending. You NEED to follow a specific path and visit rooms in a specific order.
That sounds like every Japanese game.
>>343993149
getting to Dark Souls secret areas like back to undead asylum or that dragon place in 3.
>>343995145
>or that dragon place in 3.
The game DOES give you hints about that one though. They're vague but they exist.
Returning to the Asylum however it never so much as creates the possibility.
>>343994706
At the mere beginning of the game, when you love the foyer and start exploring and you hear a scream, if you go into the bathroom, you'll witness one of your friends getting killed.
This locks you out of the perfect ending and you dont know that until you're like 15 minutes away from finishing the game.
Theres several other instances of the game doing it (just locking you of an ending because you entered a room you were not supposed to enter)
Theres also that part where you have to find a secret entrance to an abandoned part of the manor, enter the rooms in a specific order, get a diary from your father's corpse and then leave and enter some pantry before going up to the kitchen.
>>343994815
Try and error would involve several fucking hours of repeating the same shit. Trial and error is also "how was I supposed to know"; theres no way, the only way you can do it is with a walkthrough or as you said with trial and error (Which will take you like a year, IF you make it)
Clock tower 2 also gives you the bad ending if you dont interact with a samurai armor at the beginning of the game.
>>343994545
Eh perfect ending is non-canon anyway. The second best ending is the one that stuck I think? Although pretty much any ending where you don't die fits the bill for the later games.
>>343995145
To be fair on this one, I feel like Dark Souls is intended to be played while connected online.
I would imagine that the areas you mentioned would be filled with messages attempting to lead you to the secrets.
>>343995005
Yeah but you get the bombs way late in Dodongo's Cavern, is not like you have so much left to do with the boomerang if you do Jabu's first and the return to Dodongo´s.
>>343994078
>>343994250
>>343994384
Yesterday someone said it was because the boomerang and slingshot and stuff rotted in the 7 years.
I thought that made enough sense.
>>343994545
I didn't know Jennifer Connelly was in this game. Or at least her likeness was used for the cover.
>>343995528
That's a possible explanation, but the problem is that there's no reason why you're not able to use your old items anymore given in-game, which is pretty strange now that I think about it.
>>343993967
>If you didn't find the shortcut, it would be a tedious walk back to Kokiri forest.
In all the years I've played OoT I NEVER knew you could access that shortcut early until about 3 years ago. (The fire Deku stick + bombflower on the wall)
That was pretty clever.
>>343994545
>>343995012
Reminder that in Final fantasy X-2 you're locked out of the perfect ending if you speak to 3 minor NPCs at the very beginning of the game in the wrong order.
>>343995145
There are several hints for reaching the dragon level in DS3
>>343995232
There are two Clock Tower games on the PSone and everyone hates 2, I was talking about the actual "sequel" of SFC Clocktower. Also, I think Clocktower games are meant to be played that way, trying shit and discovering shit, even death scenes are pretty cool.
Now, if we talk about serious "how I supposed to know" shit that locks you and doesn't let you progress, hell, even sometimes fuck up your playthrough and you have to restart since the beginning, you should look for Wizardry series, specially 4.
Pic related
>>343993149
I think I'm more worried that when you shoot an arrow through fire in todays games, it doesn't light the arrow on fire.
>>343995145
I wonder what it was like to be the first person to discover the great hollow. Shit was fucking strange to find.
>>343995264
It really doesnt matter if it wasnt canon, the point is that you cant play the game at full length unless you have a walkthrough in hand.
And maybe thats not abig deal nowadays, but back in the days, that meant you had to buy one of those fucking alpha guides
>>343995946
Even in NG+? I thought they fixed that in the International version.
>>343996241
I can understand that, although I really wouldn't worry about getting the best ending to a game that's supposed to be horror. Just see what happens.
>>343993149
>kids in the 90's early 00's
>shit doesn't work
>keep trying every possibility through careful observation
>end up finding a solution
>only in extreme cases look shit up onlineor hope you're lucky enough some magazine develops a guide
>kids today
>shit doesn't work
>immediately run online for a detailed solution in gamefags/jewtube, if not following a walkthrough already
>check comments and "reviews" from heavily opinionated idiots who enjoy pretending they know their shit
>LOL HOW WAS I SUPPOSED TO KNOW? BAD GAME DESIGN XD
I never really liked Zelda games that much, but you're a supreme retarded faggot holy shit.
>>343996431
Bullshit, we had gamefaqs in 2000, don't lie.
We just used them for boss strategies instead of puzzles.
>>343996338
Yes international fixes it.
But 99% of people didnt played the international version.
And NG+ means beating that turd of a game twice.
>>343996431
Tbh I do this but only because in 3 different occassions, 3 different games, I've been blocked from progressing for like 3 hours only to later find out it was a bug that was blocking me.
Like in PoP warrior within I used a portal to travel to the present and the exit of the room was collapsed and the portal didnt worked, jumped around the place for like 2 hours thinking it was a puzzle.
>>343996812
>And NG+ means beating that turd of a game twice.
>only twice
>>343993149
> arrows that go through fire catch fire and can light up torches
Man, Master Quest fucking loved to do this.
>>343993149
I just used that fire explosion.
>>343996431
Anon, the pic is from the Fire Temple Master Quest version. And to be honest, kids from the 80s consider us casuals because they actually had hard as fuck games like this
>>343996137
Just look this fucking map and read about this: at the end of the game, there is a puzzle that can only be solved if you had beat the first game.
>>343996431
Nah in the case before the internet people just didn't beat/100% games unless they had literal autism and their OCD wouldn't let them stop.
>>343996137
>how I supposed to know
That's not IV. Stupid shit like finding that broken ass weapon in FFX is how was I supposed to know. Werdna is pure fucking bullshit the whole way through on another level. You don't expect to know, you just ride it with your eyes closed until you clash in the first room.
>>343997408
How the fuck are you even supposed to read that?
And whats >>343996137 about?
>>343996431
I got stuck on two separate occasions playing the 3DS Majora's Mask remake while doing exactly what I was supposed to do.
Older games often have problems with requiring you perform an obvious task, but in a slightly more specific way than you're expecting. If dashing into the breakable wall doesn't work in a game like zelda, you'd think that you were supposed to try something else - like a bomb - but the answer is actually to dash into it but from two feet to the left
>>343993149
I don't understand.
I'm trying to think of situations in the game that require you to shoot an arrow through fire. The only situation that's jumping out in my mind, is the room in the Forest Temple (if you don't have Din's Fire).
The room is designed specifically, to make it very clear that shooting arrows through fire can have an effect. The platforms spin around a torch in the middle of a room, with an ice-covered switch on a wall. In essence that is teaching you the mechanic.
The only other situation I know is the water temple, the room in which you meet ruto once it's been drained of water. Even then I think it's pretty obvious, most players should have done the forest temple by that point or have din's fire.
>>343996782
>we had gamefaqs in 2000
Sure, but internet use wasn't as widespread, or even that accessible outside the states, and that includes some "developed" countries.
I was an early adopter myself and for me and most other people I knew, looking for solutions online was something out of the question unless it was an already completed game or some bullshit cases.
I don't know, it always felt really really cheap.It still does.
>>343997408
>kids from the 80s consider us casuals
What do you mean exactly, I started playing videogames in the early 90's across plenty of systems so I usually lump everything together.
>>343997625
There's been casuals since the dawn of time.
>>343994868
not only that, but in rooms where torches need to be lit up, there are pots that you can break that would drop bundle of arrows. common sense will put those 2 things together.
>>343997625
>tfw still have never 100%'s OoT despite the many, many, many times I've beaten it
I think the next time I play it, I'll finally actually do just that.
>>343999301
>>343994868
I miss when games taught you mechanics like this - by structuring the environment in a way that makes it obvious. Instead of just flat out telling you what to do.
>>343993323
I was 9 and I figured this shit out too. OP is retarded.
Like half of the puzzles in zero escape games
>>343998313
>How the fuck are you even supposed to read that?
Pic related and 1/3
>>343999043
boi literally the pic in the OP is a puzzle where you have to shoot the arrow through a wall of fire. When you try to move up the stairs, a wall of fire activates at the base of it, you can visit some rooms to the side but eventually you'll be back at the entrance and the only way to pass is by shooting an arrow through that wall of fire.
Theres really no indication that it can be done, since even before that point, walls of fire were used to keep you out of places, and the solution for them was always a switch, not an arrow
>>343999901
That wasn't in the game. Unless you're talking about master quest, which I've never played
>>343999951
3/3
These series have candidates a lot of "that is fucking bullshit" and "how I was supposed to know" moments with permadeath mechanics and without savescumming, at least for the first 5 games.
>>344000425
*Ignore candidates
>>343999901
It took me 5 minutes to figure it out, without Din's Fire. Master Quest is fun for people who likes to solve this kind of situations when they change the rules a little bit and that's something that modern games lack.
>>343995528
Would that mean that the reason you can't use adult items as child Link is that they got obliterated through a time loophole in that they hadn't even been built or created yet?
>>344000187
This is vanilla. not master quest.
>>344001108
That certainly was NOT in vanilla. That is the opening room in the fire temple. There is no puzzle in that room where you have to light anything on fire.
>>343994078
Pads out item list and makes the player feel helpless for a while which plays right into the atmosphere of adult hyrule. Logically there's probably no good reason adult link shouldn't use those weapons but it enhances the atmosphere to a degree.
>>343999951
>>344000425
That's pretty fucking brutal.
>>343993149
You're an idiot, I figured this out right away, I was eleven when I first played this.
>>343993149
Because there is a room in the forest temple that makes it clear as day that's what your supposed to do.
>Get bow in Forest Temple, so naturally most puzzle solving for that dungeon will involve it.
>Enter room with 4 spinning platforms and a torch in the middle, on the other side, a switch blocked with ice.
I WONDER WHAT I'M SUPPOSED TO FUCKING DO.
>>343995145
I found out about the Undead Asylum revisit on my own, which felt pretty good.
Definitely had to look up the two invisible walls in a row, though.
>>344002051
It doesn't even mention how in order to escape the very first room of the game, you need to summon a specific type of creature, stand in a specific spot and hope they cast a spell randomly that reveals a secret door. None of this is signposted in any way.
>>344002459
Not even a clue? That doesn't sound like overly good design. Is there anything else like that later in?
>>344002337
My brother claims that he found the Ash Lake by himself. I still refuse to believe that.
>>343995005
true but you don't need the bow to beat the fire temple period, so you can just do it first.
![wizardry4[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ytJ7OAN.jpg "wizardry4[1].jpg")
>>344002670
It was pretty much designed to be as difficult and obtuse as possible for "expert players". The box even has a warning.
>>344002848
Suppose it's fair enough a warning, but it just seems like it rewards the patient man. Especially in that earlier case.
>>344002670
Clues are for faggots but in the first three wizardry games this spell is mentioned, so your clue is in those games.
I think a second print of Wizardry 4 had an envelope with the solution of the first room.
>>344002960
>Play the previous games
I suppose that works, especially if they advertised the game being for 'experts' on the box. How is the RNG in these games?
>>344002959
If you really want to indulge, check out this written LP http://lparchive.org/Wizardry-IV/
I played the Leisure Suit Larry remake today and that game is full of this shit
>You have to purposefully fall through a hole on a fire escape so you could land in a dumpster and find a hammer.
>>344003141
Definitely going to give this a read, thanks.
>>344003082
RNG plays against you before the game even starts, you have to re-roll a lot if you want good starting stats.
The fucking room in Link's Awakening where you have to throw a pot at a door to open it.
I only solved it out of frustration because I just started throwing pots around randomly.
It's a one time thing that you never do again and it's never used in the oracles either.
I've been playing LttP lately, and I'm kind of ashamed at having to check a walkthrough a couple of times. Stuff like the Gargoyles dungeon opening when you pull the bars, or the Gravestone to the Cape having to be rammed got me. This shit made me mad too.
>And did I mention the immortal ghost of your nemesis Trebor who pursues you in real time, and as soon as he touches you, you drop dead and it's game over? Or that you're only given a limited number of keystrokes to beat the game?
That sounds interesting. How many other games do either of these?
>>343993967
I always just save and reset the game after talking to Zelda.
>>343994078
Since you cant use the Hylian Shield properly as a child, i always just assumed that all his child gear was too small to be of any use to his adult self.
The boomerang would surely be smaller for a kid to use it so as an adult it wouldnt get very far. And the slingshot can only be pulled back so far due to the tension in the rubber, adult link may break it.
But thats just a theory!
>>343993319
i was really suprised when i found out that most people didn't do the fire temple first, The massive fire ring was much more interesting and you saw it right after you exit the temple of time for the first time as adult link.
>>344004562
Personally, after a timeskip where everything goes to shit, i find it normal to go check out your home then get all caught up in the forest and rush to save your childhood friend.
>>343993319
>Did you know that you could play the Fire Temple before the Forest Temple?
Not really, I like having the bow as well
>>343994682
>it would have been nice to just be able to go to either one freely.
I know, it just feels really dumb, especially given that both the bombs and boomerang are optional but highly helpful on the other respective area. Its one of those things that the remake should have changed.
>>343995145
>You again?
There's nothing to speak about, really.
Oh, actually… Something strange did happen.
That crow flew off with somebody in its clutches. I think it was a man curled up in a ball.
Stranger things have happened, right?
No, maybe not
>get up to nest
>prompt: "curl up like a ball"
>>343993943
>playing an english game without speaking english
>angry about not understanding what to do when a tablet literally tells you what to do
What did you expect?
>>343993323
Because you were told how to do it by some friend or sibling.
>>343993943
Sorry anon but that one was your bad
>>343993149
>Din's Fire
Profit.
Also, there's a place where you are locked in a room with 4 pylars rotating around a torch and the door is locked till you hit a frozen eye with a fire arrow. That's when you are supposed to learn you can lit arrows if you reach that place withouth din's fire and the Fire Arrow magic.
>>344011685
Not the same guy, but if that was the case It doesn't change that his friend would also be around 9 years old.
I was 10 when the game was released and I was able to do it by myself.
>>343993149
>ITT how was I supposed to know?
By hypothesising a solution to the problem and then carrying it out.
>>343993495
I think the only temples you can do in diferent order withoth the "Go to a temple, get the weapon and leave" gimmick are the Shadow and the Spirit.
>>343994078
>>343994250
I always figured that it's because Young Link is too weak to use items like the bow and hammer because of the strength required to pull back the bow or swing the hammer.
By Majora's Mask, he's a bit older, stronger, and retains the knowledge of how to use stuff from the future.
>>343993319
>Did you know that you could play the Fire Temple before the Forest Temple?
You need the bow at least twice in the Fire Temple to open eyelocks.
>>344013631
First time I played it, I beat Fire Temple before Forest Temple. Didn't need a bow, if I remember correctly, though this was back in 1999 or so.
>most people here not realizing that this thread is satire and a joke
man this place has gone to shit pretty fast
>>344004562
Basically this >>344004750.
The very first place I checked out was the ranch in the middle of the map. And after I got the horse I wanted to go back to where the game started.
I may have stopped by Kakariko village first. No way that I could remember. But I remember finding the path up to the mountain to be dull so I didn't even bother and was instead interested in seeing how the world had changed.
>>343993149
Wow, if that shit gave your feeble mind problems how did you fare in the water temple?
>>343995232
One character will always die in the intro. Which character it is is random. There are two "best" endings, one where one girl survives and the other where the other girl survived. There's no ending where both girls live, and no way to progress past the opening without walking in on someone's corpse. The thing you describe isn't obscure, it just isn't possible.
>>343998738
where the fuck did you get stuck playing MM doing it correctly?
How was I supposed to know you could grapple to chests? You can go through literally the entire game without grappling to chests, then at the literal end of the game it's required.
Every time you've needed to grapple, you get a stick, or a post, or something.
>>344019780
>kill boss
>chest appears
>can't reach chest, or door to progression up where chest is.
I figured it out.
>>344019780
They're made of wood
It actually came as a shock in later Zelda games when you can't grapple to them
>>343994218
firing through torches to set them alight? no lttp didnt do that
>>343995528
>milk hasn't reduced to a moldy puddle of cottage cheese in 7 years
How the living FUCK were kids supposed to figure out that the hookshot (mandatory item to advance the plot because you couldn't get to the forest temple without it) was in that secret passage under one of the random gravestones? And once you get down there, a ghost will race you through a catacombs and then give you a grappling hook for beating him. ...what? Yes, they tell you to "go to the village" but that's it. Even if they did find it eventually, what a stupid fucking place for it.
>>344021712
I haven't played in a while but wasn't there talk of a treasure (the Hookshot) in the village? And Gravekeeper Dante's house is left unlocked and you can read his journal.
>>343994545
>US box art for a game that never came out of Japan
>>344000425
>>344002051
You also have a limited number of keystrokes before you get a gameover
>>344022802
Is there a precise number of the amount given? Does this and Trebor's ghost also include menu navigation and typing in stuff?
>>344023005
Trebor's ghost is in realtime. If you dawdle on a menu screen, he'll keep approaching
>>343994078
Actual reason why:
To pace the game better and keep young link out of places they don't want him. While slingshot and bow are functionally the same, you can't have young link using the bow because then he could solve puzzles he shouldn't be able to. It also wouldn't make sense for adult link to use the slingshot when he has a bow. Same with the boomerang. Deku sticks were likely disabled to put more of a focus on arrow puzzles, which require more spatial thinking (which becomes more important later in the game, so they want that to be emphasized)
Memory was also likely a contributing factor - honestly it's likely that there just wasn't enough memory to keep ALL the items at the ready. This is why you had to pause to change guns in the original Devil May Cry.
>>344021712
>>344022108
That's actually for the longshot, the upgraded version of the hookshot iirc
>>344000425
Some of the adventurer parties you encounter were based on save data sent to the devs while it was in development. So you end up fighting the actual parties made by players of the first 3 games.
>>343993149
It was literally established in the first dungeon you could light things on fire and that those kind of torches could be lit. You used Deku sticks which can't be used as an adult, I think it should be pretty easy to figure out your other wooden item (arrows) can do that. Pretty sure Navi even told you at some point in the forest temple.
You should probably stick to modern adventure games with giant "GO HERE DUMBASS" indicators. Even OoT had more of this than many games at the time with Navi usually blatantly telling you what to do.
>>344021037
That mechanic existed since the first game with the lantern, LttP had the fire rod to do this.
>>344023120
What a dick
I take it he starts at a designated spot on each floor?
>>344023405
Something worth adding to that is since you can power level and cheese your way through the first games via grinding, a fair few of these submitted parties were way tougher and stronger than they had any right being.
>>344023263
The longshot was the water temple's dungeon item.
>>343993149
I was 12 and I figured it out.
We were just a smarter breed back then 2bh.
>>344013405
Yeah thats pretty much it, can't get the Nocturne of Shadow to access the shadow temple until you finish the water temple. You also need the hookshot to access the spirit temple so like you said the order of those is whatever you want.
You can access the dungeons in pretty much any order with glitches and sequence breaking though, speed runs abuse the shit out of this. Shadow and spirit are the only ones that were intentionally designed to be done in either order through regular game mechanics though.
>>343993149
>literally "mad cuz bad" the thread
>>344000425
Everytime you load a save, the entire floor you're on gets reset. All enemies respawn as a result. You can only save when quitting, preventing save scumming and punishing your limited ability to save.
>>344014361
No, you need at least to get the bow to finish the temple.
>>343993319
I mean you could beat any temple before its due by getting the dungeon item and then exit the place, but just how would you get pass the boulder block in Zora's river without the bombs or glitching the game?
>>343993419
the fire temple may as well not exist. No other dungeon ever requires the megaton hammer aside from maybe one switch in ganons tower. I've had playthrough where I've literally forgotten about the fire temple until after I beat all the other dungeons.
>>344023770
Dont you need the hover boots during the spirit temple though?
>>343993319
I did this my first time playing it because I got stuck in the Forest Temple
>>344024287
yes, for one silver rupee.
>>343993149
by testing the player's intelligence, anon.
iirc the first time you have to do that is in the forest temple and the game shows you how by mere gameplay, you are in a spinning plataform and there's a torch between you and a frozen eye after that the game pretty much expects you to do it out of pure logic, even if you are too stupid for that there's Navi screaming the answer in the up c command.
>>344024051
>the fire temple may as well not exist. No other dungeon ever requires the megaton hammer aside from maybe one switch in ganons tower.
This is one thing I really disliked that later Zelda games started doing. You got an item that had almost no use outside of completing the dungeon you obtain it from.
Link to the past did this much less with many items being re-used later. Turtle rock being a good example where the cane of somaria from the 6th dungeon being used extensively to progress. The dungeon order also gave you much more choice than later games.
>>344024287
What >>344024507 said.
I used to always do the spirit temple first because it was my favorite temple and I really liked the mirror shield design.
>>344023005
You have 999999 keystrokes to beat the game with
>>344023482
He can be reset by saving and quitting the game, as this resets and respawns all enemies on the floor. It's your only way of dealing with him if he gets close
>>344023976
I promise you when I first played through the game I completed the fire temple before the forest, I can't remember how or why or what but I promise you it was that order.
>>344003586
>pulling open the gargoyle
Fuck that shit. You don't just have to pull it, you need to pull it for a certain length of time. I looked up a guide for that after trying to pull it only to be told to do exactly what I was doing.
>>344019780
You need to grapple to a chest once in Great Bay.
>>344003586
I spend a lot of time exploring around on this on super metroid as a kid. Got stuck finding the last boss in Maridia for years and couldn't figure out how to get to the swamp in the dark world in LttP.
Finally figured out where you got the flute and was able to finish it.
>>344000425
that's just dumb.
t. game designer
>>343993319
>Did you know that you could play the Fire Temple before the Forest Temple?
I don't think you can do this in the Master Quest version.
>>344026545
A lot of it is similar to the Etrian Odyssey games, where you need to be very particular and strategic about how your party acts in order to get the advantage on the game (because the odds are stacked against you). This is definitely so in the first Wizardry trilogy, where it's not unheard of to beat the game at level 20 or less after 8-10 hours of play.
Wizardry 4, as much as I hate to bring the comparison in, reminds me somewhat of Dark Souls 2 in that it totally embraces the perception of that these games are for the ultra-hardcore 'prepare to die!!!' crowd, and ratchets it up to 11. There are a lot of interesting components to it but there is practically no room for error - well there sort of is by retreating back to Summoning circles to replenish your health and monster parties, but to get anywhere you have to live and breathe wizardry. I didn't so I could never make it out of the first floor.
>>343996431
>born in 1982
>play and beat every game without being able to look shit up
>see kids nowadays struggle with the simplest shit
I know every generation calls the one after them retarded, but the current generation truly seems to lack problem solving skills. Most likely because they can just look up the solution all the time.
>>344001108
>>344001286
Also the buttons for A and B are red and green. In vanilla they were blue and green unless I'm retarded.
>>344019780
>stick, or a post, or something
>these are made of wood
>the chest are wood
>ipso facto I can grapple chests
>>343993319
How the fuck do you do Jabu-Jabu before Dodongo? Don't you need the bombs to break the row of rocks leading up to it?
>>344013631
You only need the bow once in the Fire Temple and that's only if you want to get the Map in a dead end room. For the rest of it you don't need it.
>>344023976
>No, you need at least to get the bow to finish the temple.
no, you really don't. The only thing you require the bow for is getting the map, which is optional. And having the megaton hammer in the forest temple is actually kinda useful
Also, technically speaking, you don't need the bow to complete water temple either, but it requires some impressive acrobatics that is pretty clearly sequence breaking.
>>344023130
You had to pause to change guns in Devil May Cry because that's what you had to do in Resident Evil, and Resident Evil has never been a shining beacon of streamlined, intuitive gameplay until Revelations was released. Neither has Devil May Cry ever been a game graced with any actual substance beyond "cool, stylish, over the top, it's good, we promise"
>>344028640
How is the megaton hammer in the forest temple useful? Genuinely curious. I think it's amazing I can still learn shit about this game almost twenty years later.
>You don't have to jump over Ingo to leave Lon Loon Ranch. You can jump over the side gate.
>>344024051
>No other dungeon ever requires the megaton hammer aside from maybe one switch in ganons tower.
99% sure its required to get the boss key in Spirit Temple, and it's used in the Gerudo Training Ground.
It also has suprisingly decent combat utility. The shockwave caused by the hammer:
stuns nearby deku baba
forces deku scrubs to surface
kills nearby skulltulla on walls
flips tektikes
flips torch slugs
And it's very useful versus Gannon if you don't have the Biggoron Sword
>>344028929
mainly for the combat utility >>344029042 here. You fight quite a few things in and leading up to Forest Temple. Especially useful for clearing out skulltulla covered vine wall in the garden area, since the hookshot doesn't reach high enough to kill them all. I mean it's not necessary to do it, but it's a neat way to play
>>344027368
I have no problem with hard games but going put of your way to make it bs is not good design. In the end you're aiming to entertain.
>>344000425
I suffered a stroke just reading this.
>>343999406
It's not hard
>>343999406
100% the golden skulltulla is maximum tedium, especially since you only need 50 for the heart piece. Everything else is pretty easy though. Don't forget to obtain the cow
>>344027675
>mfw when people not looking up everything in the game is now considered a "blind play through"
What kind of horseshit is that. That should just be the fucking way to play the game.
>>343993149
back in the day games didnt hold your hand, but kids back then could figure out shit like this with no problem.
>>343993319
You need bombs before you can get into zora's domain, though.
>>344021470
Bottles in Zelda are the highest form of magic in the realm. They are the most valuable items in the universe. No wonder they can preserve things beyond time. Bottles can even knock back Ganons memeballs.
>>344028929
All this time I never even considered jumping over Ingo...
>>344029818
a lot of it is that designers no longer expect people to read manuals. LoZ's manual had a step by step guide to the first dungeon, a rough guide to beating, and another rough guide on getting to the second dungeon. It also had an explanation for every item, every enemy bar Gannon (often explaining their weaknesses), and hints on every page about finding secrets and defeating enemies (if that hadn't been explained in the enemy section). These days they just stick it in the game rather than a separate handbook.
>>343993149
I played it when I was 13 on the gamecube in 2004 and it made sense right away.
>>344030138
I always figured it was common since that's what the camera makes you face when his dialogue ends. I only just learned you could jump over the side.
>>343993149
Dont wanna be that guy, but if you've made it to the Fire Temple, then that means you would need to know about the fire arrow thingy from the prior dungeon.
Not to mention as SOON as you get the arrows in the forest temple, you're presented with 3 dungeons in quick proximity to each other;
Eye on the wall: hit it with an arrow
Eye on the wall, frozen, only thing in the room is a torch: Hit it with a fire arrow
Eye on the wall, frozen, and the room is spinning: Wait for the right moment and hit it with a fire arrow
It was properly scaled in my opinion. Pretty easy to figure out. Someone has to learn it.
>>343993149
I'm pretty sure there was a puzzle in the Forest Temple that involved fire and arrows, once you got the bow from that dungeon.
>>344030641
>Dungeons
Puzzles rather, Disregard me.
>he didnt use the Prima Official Strategy Guide for every gen 5 game
Bought the Zelda ones for the artwork
>>344029814
I thought a blind playthrough was playing it for the first time, not having ever seen it played, or having played it yourself before.
>>343994815
>Try and error
>try
>>343995602
Glad I wasnt the only one
>>343993323
same, but I was 10 I believe.
>>344011685
Nobody but me in my home town even OWNED OoT, and internet was not a thing yet for us.
If anything, it was either a simple connect-the-dots realization, made easier by the fact that you get locked in that one room where you NEED to figure it out to proceed, OR Navi being Navi.
>>344029042
>deku baba
>skulltulla
>tektikes
>biggoron
Holy fuck this game really is for children. It's like random phrases you say to a baby to get him to stop whining. Holy fuck, it's a metaphor for nintoddlers screaming about more games. Zelda games are also incredibly well known for being easy, beaten by literal toddlers. And Link is a fucking child baby in half the games.
Holy fuck this series is for children.
>>344004562
Two simple reasons:
1) Navi keeps nagging about Sariah
2) The only long-distance communication you can perform is with Sariah, and she's all like "OMG you're alive? I'm in pinch, halp!"
3) What >>344004750 said. The ruined, zombie-invested town market was already a good enough indicator of shit having hit the fan in a humongous scale, so starting with smaller scale, simple basics, is bound to be more appealing option
>>344031270
All video games are made for children
>>344029814
It makes sense in terms of Let's Plays. Most people who are watching LPers want to see a game completed quickly and without the nuances of the initial playthrough.
I don't really believe most who upload their "blind" playthrough to YT is actually playing it blind though
>>344031446
This is what Nintendo wants you to believe. The first games were actually released for young adults. Children really got into them, so companies like Nintendo grabbed onto it.
Any quest in this fucking game. You don't even get visual cues, you have to pretty much guess in which floor the event is supposed to happen, where on the floor, and mash A on every single fucking tile.
And they had the balls to have an entire secret area.
>>344004562
>>344031429
I didn't even wait for Navi to bug me about Saria. The first thing I did after awakening from the 7 year seal was contact her via the Ocarina. I did that before even leaving the Temple of Time.
Who doesn't test out gameplay mechanics after such a world changing event like that?Plus I considered her Link's best friend and I was worried about her.
Final Fantasy 12 springs to mind with the Zodiac Spear having a dumb as fuck prerequisite to adhere to if you want to get it.
You have to avoid opening 4 specific chests in the game, 4 chests that look like every other ordinary chest in the game and there is no indication by anyone that they should be avoided.
It's the kind of shit just designed to sell guides and to hide one of the most powerful weapons in the game like that just annoyed the hell out of me.
HOW SHOULD I KNOW?
I know that they essentially tell you on the stone but it sounds like a metaphor and they only give you that small window when the sun initially rises iirc. If you try it too late and nothing happens then why should I assume that I'll score arrows that shoot fire if I try just a little earlier? It just seemed kind of ridiculous that background scenery could be triggered with an arrow to release an item.
>>344031864
Because the sun looks different rising her than anywhere else.
You're not supposed to know about it either. You don't need the fire arrows to complete the game.
>>344004562
I called Saria right away, and she seemed to be in danger.
Then I found out about the Kokiris and wanted to save them as well.
I remember not being able to find the Pirates' Fortress for ages as a kid until I just started doing random shit.
Tiny Being's Ring
>>344031809
Exactly.
I called Saria regularly and after traveling forward that was the first thing I did. Also naturally wanted to see what kokirir forest now looks like..
>>344019780
I always grappled to a chest in OoT to cheat and get rupees from an area you weren't supposed to access yet.
Also in MM I used to do the trick of transforming to Zora to kid in order to reach certain places you couldn't access normally. A shame they removed that in MM3D.
Did you know that if you jump off Jabu-Jabu's platform at a particular spot at a particular angle, you can end up in his belly as Adult Link, even though Jabu-Jabu is gone? The glitch made it into the 3DS version of the game. I felt like a master hacker when I first discovered it even though no hacks were used.
>>344032715
What about it?
>>344031809
>>344032741
>>344032419
>tfw calling Saria the first time after the timeskip and realizing she was surrounded by monsters>tfw you were too late to save her and the other sages
>>344033259
Do you think the monsters took the opportunity to fuck Saria when no-one could save her?
>>344033009
The description when you pick it as a gift says that it gives you HP regen.
>>343993658
Oh yeah I forgot /v/ is full of neckbeard atheists
>>344034339
Saria's true form doesn't have a vagina. She's a tree spirit.
>>344033259
>The real reason The Hero's shade was full of regret in Twilight Princess was because he let nearly all his friends die during the events of Ocarina of Time.
this thread makes me feel like i'm insane. i do not remember this puzzle whatsoever, and i've beaten OoT at least 15 times. the first room of the fire temple has no puzzle like that. all it has are two doors, one that leads to darunia, and the other that leads to the rest of the temple. it also has the boss key area that you use the hammer to smash away the blocks.
there is no puzzle where you have to shoot an arrow through fire. do you people live in an alternate universe or something?
>>344035371
Maybe he meant to bring up the Forest Temple, which I believe has a room with a rotating platform where you have to time an arrow shot so that it goes through a fire and lights a brazier. Or was that in Majora's Mask?
>>344024051
>after I beat all other temples
>shadow temple is inaccessible until after beating forest, fire, and water temples
>>344035371
Haha, now you'll also tell me that you never got the triforce, did the Light Temple, or that the game didn't have a marriage system.
Get outta here loser, you're probably from a bad alternate reality.
>>344035731
That was MM
>>344036635
It was in Ocarina of Time too.
>>344037135
I don't remember that
>>343993419
you need bombs to get to zoras domain, so theoretically you could do half the dungeon, go to zoras domain, go do jabu jabu and finish
>>344037271
https://youtu.be/dA41JAMYkS4?t=4m56s
What is it about Zelda that compels people to be so confident in incorrect assertions? Even when it comes to pronunciation of names the fanbase is always split in three different ways.
>>343993419
>>343993498
He's wrong. There are bombs that block the path at Zora's River and I don't think you can get 40 tokens for the bombchu without the boomerang/glitching. The only way into Zora's Domain without the normal equipment or glitch warping is to use the Navi dive glitch through the lost woods (while knowing Zelda's Lullaby), or Lake Hylia..
If you count glitches you can do anything in basically any order. With the sword and navi dive you can get the silver scale as your second item and Jabu Jabu as your first entered dungeon. With the door of time skip you don't even need to do any of the child dungeons to become adult Link.
>>343994808
You can leave any dungeon to do the next after you get the item from it. You can do Dodongo's cavern up to bombs and then do Jabu Jabu. That's it.
>>344037736
I swear to God, I cannot look at anything Forest Temple related again without remembering EH REH
>>344013631
False I did it just yesterday
>>343994363
yes
>>344035371
There is a room in the Forest Temple that has three rotating platforms with one stationary platform in the center with a lit brazier. On the opposite side of it is an Eye diamond encased in ice. You have to line up the shot and loose the arrow through the fire and hit the iced up eye.
t. Playing OoT64 right now. Any questions you need answered?
>>344038640
I should mention I'm up to the Spirit Temple.
>>344037736
Ah right now I remember
>>344027675
>I know every generation calls the one after them retarded
And yet you did the same fucking thing. Congratulations.
>But this time it's TRUE
That's what the previous generation thought about yours.
>>343993149
This is what I like though, figuring shit out for myself
What's wrong with the game not telling you? it's not so hard you can't figure it out yourself, should every game spoonfeed you?
>>344038640
Have you seen ice before this? Is there a chance it looks just like glass?
>>344021712
I played blind and didn't have a problem
git gud and explore you faggot
>>343994250
This. It is a well known fact that Child Link was added really late in OOT's development. They had to contrive differences between the two.
>>343993149
Didn't you do that in the first fucking dungeon with a stick?
>>344039275
If you're just going temple to temple no, I believe this would be the first time encountering something puzzle related in ice. So I could possibly see some confusion; however, assuming that the player is braindead and shoots the encased ice eye with a regular arrow and sees it doesn't work then sees the lit torch, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to assume what they would need to do. That last sentence isn't meant to be rude, just breaking it down. Now as for it possibly looking like glass I could potentially see it, but it just feels like it has an icy blue texture to it if that makes sense. See the attached image and video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=dx2bSKhuuTw#t=1295
>>344013631
No you don't. I always beat the fire temple first. I just did it a week ago. The eye locks are optional in it. You only need the bow once in the water temple as well
>>343993149
The only bullshit part about that temple is this one torch at the top of some wall that you NEED to shoot with an arrow through the fire of another torch, yet shooting a literal fire arrow at it does nothing. What the fuck.
>REAL TALK
In the Minish Cap, the game expects you to know the "Hit wall with sword, if different sound, it's bombable" trick when going up the mountain without nothing hinting at it.
think about it.
>>343996163
no kidding
>>344034918
>She's a tree spirit
If we can fuck glass box prisons we sure as hell won't stop at tree spirits
>>344029334
"I am not entertained so this is a bad game. All games should cater to everyone's tastes equally" ok.
>>343993149
HOLY SMOKEY THE BEAR!!!! U wut m8?
I never even thought of shooting the arrows through the fire wall. I thought you had to use Din's Fire by standing in front of it, or come back with the Longshot and skip over the wall, and then use Din's Fire to light them.
I thought you were royally screwed until you beat the whole Forest Temple if you had forgotten or decided to skip Din's Fire. There is always something to this game I haven't thought of.Tfw Breath of the Wild will be another twenty more years of this.
>>344040587
Is there a cracked wall AT ALL before this?
If not you should try to play video games, i heard they help you solve things like this
>>344040587
You sure Ezlo doesn't tell you eventually?
>>344004562
That reminds me. Why was there a fire ring around the mountain to begin with ? Evil Johnny Cash magic ?
>>344040502
Tfw I know what you're talking about and did this, and then was stuck on the Temple for like two hours trying to figure out the trick because I didn't think it was possible to get the right angle to shoot through the torch after trying for two minutes.
>>344041275
Because Ganondorf revived Volvagia and she's been wreaking havoc in Death Mountain making it unstable.
>>344041225
>Having to play an entire different game to solve a puzzle
What do you think this is? A late 90's Japanese horror game?
Soon you'll tell me red barrels explode.
