How do we make dungeon crawlers great again, /v/?
>>343897890
Make more crawlers with interesting locations and places worth exploring. Something not tile based either for more interesting geometry.
Mechs, cute little girls, fanservice, and a plot so crazy that it makes Metal Gear look reasonable.
>>343898172
It's called Skyrim mon fr frère
>>343897890
Release Grimrock 3
>>343898254
Done
>>343897890
Either that skeleton is 8 feet tall of that is a ridiculously low ceiling. There's no way all four of them would be able to attack at the same time. This game is shit.
>>343897890
are you trying to say temple of baa is good?
I love MM but this>>343898323
>>343897890
we wait and hope for grimrock 3 to be good.aside from the anime shit, the etrian odyssey series are some pretty good ones. could use some puzzles tho.also considering getting a vita, any good dungeon crawlers there?yes. i like spoilers
>>343898282
well memed m'sir
>>343898452
Well shit.
>>343898282
Actually it's called Wizardry 8
>>343897890
Members Only
>>343898868
Also coming to the US
Shadow Tower 3 when?
>>343898463
I think the skeleton is closer than he appears
They already are
>>343897890
By putting women in them? Look at that game. The reason why it failed is because there are no cute girls.
>>343898463
>There's no way all four of them would be able to attack at the same time
they don't
>>343899050
No but really it's pretty good
>>343898585
Might as well stick to peesee since all those shitty weeb crawlers seem to be getting ported and sold on steam. You have japanese wizardry clones to play too and one just got recently translated. I hear swords and sorcery: underworld is good but I've never played it.
>>343898463
>its a 90s dungeon RPG
>WAHHH WHY THIS ISNT REALISTIC LIKE M-MY SKYRIM WITH DRAGON DILDO MODS
just uninstall nobody asked for you to play it
>>343899050
I should've bought this game during the sale. If only they had an android port.
Arent Souls games dungeon crawlers?
>>343899621
They're not.
>>343899621
No, unless you count the chalice dungeons in Bloodborne.
>>343899491
The keyboard controls are tight and I still refuse to believe it was an iPad port
>>343899328
i travel quite from time to time and i already burned down my 3ds backlog. only waiting for etrian odyssey V and pokemon sun and moon to be released. i don't have anything to play after that
>>343899909
Do you have a smartphone?
>>343899050
Shill me on this. Whats it all about? Anything to compare with Might & Magic and Grimrock?
Will it be good lads? Will Brian Fargo deliver?
Goddamn skeletones
make every game into Wizardry 4
>>343899720
>>343899805
>A dungeon crawl is a type of scenario in fantasy role-playing games in which heroes navigate a labyrinthine environment (a "dungeon"), battling various monsters, and looting any treasure they may find
?
>>343900260
kys
>>343900235i hate drawing maps
>>343900064
I loved Grimrock 1 but I hated Grimrock 2 for the lack of NPCs
The Quest solves that problem for me.
The thing I love about The Quest is just stumbling into random situations and quests
>>343900415
can b fixed
Make them like dark souls.
>>343900260
Do you also think Metroid and Castlevania are dungeon crawlers?
That being said, King's Field is mostly a dungeon crawler.
>>343900501
>I loved Grimrock 1 but I hated Grimrock 2 for the lack of NPCs
grimrock 1 had npcs?
>>343900501
Sounds like it's a grid based MM6 without keyword dialogue. Thanks.
>>343900587
kys
>>343900739
Grimrock doesn't have friendly NPCs
>>343900853
Yeah it has dialogue choices. Some of its influenced by your persuasion/personality points
>>343900981
i know that
hes implying that grimrock 2 lacked npcs
so im asking if grimrock had npcs at all aside from that dead guy
The single most important thing to note about Grimrock is that its made by a finnish developer,
>>343901251
That explains why it's harder to play when sober.
unreal world
>>343900120
game looks like shit but is it actually good?
>>343901721
looks p good 2bh
>>343901197
Grimrock 1 doesn't have any friendly NPCs but it's acceptable for story reasons (and low indie budget reasons)
>>343901721
>game looks like shit
You're crazy
Thoughts?
>>343897890
Release the good ones on a system that isn't dead.
I still don't get why Dungeon Travelers 2 and Coven are Vita onry.
>>343902445
The good ones are on PC already though :)
>>343902485
If you're taking about MS-DOS, sure.
Otherwise, no, get some taste.
>>343902248
>eight party members
Fuck no.
I hate it when a game goes past 4 members.
>>343899050
I still remember playing Redshift games on an old ass PDA when i was young
>>343898172
This, tiles really should stay in the past where they belong, there is no real reason why we can't have a modern dungeon crawler with real freedom of movement and design, there are no technological limitations that demand these kinds of things anymore.
The whole genre has massive potential, but the antiquated grid systems and lack of interesting and varied worlds tend to hold it back. We need more dungeon crawlers like Wizardry 8 and less like Etrian Odyssey in my opinion.
it's simple. bring back those oldschool party portraits of actual people. shit's bad ass bro. they would be HD cuties now.
>>343902924
I disagree. Tiles can stay I just don't want them to be the only kind of dungeon crawler. Variety is the spice of life.
>>343902785
That pic is from Grimoire the longest running vaporware of all time.
What are some essential crawlers I should strart with?
>>343903148
I don't want tiles to disappear completely, I'm not that butthurt, but I wish dungeon crawler devs would at least try to shift away from tiles every now and then, there is a serious lack of dungeon crawlers without tiles, and the market is generally flooded with these low-effort rehashed tile games that just aren't fun.
Grimrock was good, it had tiles, but few modern dungeon crawlers are as good as Grimrock.
>>343903375
For older games:
Might and Magic 3-6
Wizardry 6-8
To just get into the genre I'd say grimrock although 2 is more puzzle focused if that's not your thing.
>>343897890
Pry Might and Magic from Ubisoft's grubby fingers.
How abouthexagonaltiles?
>>343902248
The demo was honestly pretty good despite stuff like multi-classing not being implemented yet.
Too bad the creator is insane and will never release the full version.
>>343903652
Also grimrock is realtime while MM and Wizardry are turn based.
>>343902785
Yeah, pretty much. It's like leading a small army into a dungeon and the combat takes forever.
>>343903810
you can play some mm real time as well
>>343904175
I think the worst part is the fact that it lets you go wide instead of specializing. You can fill in every niche and then some, instead of having to make sacrifices, like having a party that might be vulnerable to traps / having overall low perception, or having a party that's light on magic.
4-man parties make for more interesting adventuring groups.
>>343902445
DT2 was a PSP port.
>>343904301
Only 6 onwards. I like how you decide when to initiate turn based mode unlike something like Fallout.
>>343903767
Sounds horrible to navigate
>>343897890
by buying modern examples that are good, and telling everyone you know to buy the too.
This is the quintessential power that the consumer has over the market.
>>343904914
fallout would not have worked in real time.
![a26[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/KmkC8ej.jpg "a26[1].jpg")
>>343902785
>>343902248
The golden baby will fly, the demo was pretty good. Full game coming out next Monday. Just fixing some micro-issues.
>>343899621
Dungeon crawler is an incredibly broad term.
>>343902924
> there is no real reason why we can't have a modern dungeon crawler with real freedom of movement
Tiles limit the possible space for secrets and details that would be very difficult to find in a complete free environment, which in turn would need a function like witcher sense which no one seems to like either.
Tiles are a necessary structure.
>>343902785
>4
I'm willing to go up to 5, but any more and it's just annoying.
>>343902445
>Coven
How is that?
>>343897890
I've noticed a bunch of indie games are doing the grid dungeon crawlers last couple of years
the next step is to take them in the direction of M&M6 / 7 and wizardry 8
ditch the grid or atleast hide it well enough like grimrock 2 but keep up the same level of system complexity
>>343897890
>bought M&M X on steam
>bought additonal content without know what it was
>It was M&M 6
Checkpot
>>343908291
God tier according to elevens.
I've been kind of interested in the older Wizardry games. Are the PS1 versions the best? Has anyone played the PC Engine ports?
>>343907489
Fallout Tactics is proof of this!
>>343908764
the best version of the first 3 is the lylgamyn saga collection on ps1, it's jap only but has english options for everything but item descriptions
i'm not sure which versions are the best for 4 and 5
snes version of 6 has some improvements and an automap but obviously you can't transfer your save over if you plan to do that
>>343897890
Relevant to the thread: whatever you do, DO NOT buy Stranger in the Sword City.
It's literally shit. I've never seen character development that shallow before in a crawler. It's basically Mass Effect 3 tier or ever worse. Also the combat is extremely tedious, as well as shallow mechanically, a feat of wonders really.
>>343909358
Experience is a really shitty developer.
>>343909358
pirated it because nigga I ain't gonna pay 30 bucks for it
man is it bad! just a huge grindfest
jrpg fags gobble that shit up without a second thought though
>>343897890
The Souls franchise is fairly recent and they are the best dungeon crawlers of all time
>>343909667
DRPG fans have shat on the developer since a long, long time ago, man.
>>343907904
Wizardry 8 solves that very issue long before things like Detective Vision and Witcher Sense came around. Search mode (or the Ranger with automatic Searching) passively will spot hidden items and objects nearby (making them appear on the radar and sometimes shifting your camera towards the thing that was found). The higher one's Senses, the fewer checks they need to notice it.
Also, what's the point of a "secret" if it's easy to find? Nobody has any problems with the pretty well hidden secrets in FPS games like Doom. While Wizardry 8 is free movement, most environments are still rather small indoor spaces, honestly it's a lot easier and quicker to scour a whole room in Wiz8 with Search mode and running your mouse over everything as you keep moving than it would be to even search something like a 4x4 tile space.
With VR
>>343910703
wizardry 8 still has puzzles, hidden walls and all that kind of stuff too
>>343909219
Thanks for the info; I guess it's time to learn how to run ePSXe.
I kinda want to get the Saturn version of the first 3 (based off the PS1 ver.) because I have a Saturn, but it's hard to justify a $50 expenditure on some really old-ass games.
>>343911138
Indeed. I happen to have gotten Wizardry 8 in the Steam sale for myself and a friend, and have begun a new game just yesterday. So I've an example of the system in effect.
I walk straight into enter this room and my Mook Ranger almost immediately turns left, spotting the Haste Scroll on (in front of) the bookshelf. There are no fancy glowing indicators or an altered reality vision, the camera simply focused on the scroll, and you can see on the radar the light gray dot just in front of our dark gray dot's cone of vision.
Were it a Tile based game, the room would have been a 3x2 space, and a player would likely have needed to walk into the corner space, face the wall adjacent to the door and then Search that one particular space in that direction. Fairly more tedious and requiring far less "real" searching (just canvasing every block).
>>343897890
>Etrian Odyssey V is coming out
I say the genre is doing pretty good.
>>343913894
>etrian odyssey
>good
>>343914015
>western dungeon crawlers
>good
See, I can shitpost too.
>MM6 was kill for me when it went sci-fi
>MMX wasn't very good but I haven't returned to it since release
Does MM7 also turn science fictiony near the end?
I need something to tide me over til Legion.
>>343914015
Hi Vitagen
>>343909812
i fucking hate you milleninal fucks
>>343897890
Actually make more good ones.
Sadly, they kind of sell like shit. Etrian Odyssey is probably one of the most successful ones outside of Japan and that's still niche as all hell. Also, get the Nips to get off their asses and release remakes of Wizardry games worldwide with adjustable difficulty ranging from babbies first dungeon crawler to harder than Wizardry 4 mode. That way casuals and good gamers will buy them.
>>343914353
>>343914937
the only decent jap wizardry clone i've played is elminage
the others are just watered down mediocre imitations
Recommend me some dungeon crawlers which aren't Etrian Odyssey, Wizardry or Might & Magic cause I've played them.
>>343915636
Dungeon travelers 2
why do you guys hate might and magic x?
it's a bit grindy but i've been enjoying the first few hours
dont mind me guys, just being an awesome dungeon crawler you probably never heard of.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ch52d-zS0w
>>343915636
dungeon master
eye of the beholder
lands of lore
1. Stop pretending this was a particularly good genre to begin with. Most dungeon crawlers made back in the day were shit.
2. Stop lapping up the slop you're served. Grimrock stinks.
Only once the people who buy this sort of game accept these hard truths will developers have any incentive to make a good one.
>>343914610
Anon, Might&Magic was science fantasy since the first game.
The whole series up to M&M9 took place on cube-shaped artificial planets like Xeen and VARN.
Magic was produced by scientific energy. Laser weaponry and high tech facilities are found in each game.
M&M is no different than the other big dungeon crawlers. Ultima, Wizardry and M&M each had strong mystical fantasy blended with science fantasy from nearly the very beginning of each of their series (only Wizardry kept it hidden until about Wiz5).
The only M&M that isn't on such a world with such a heavy sci-fantasy focus is M&MX since that takes place in the Heroes of Might and Magic universe, the same as Dark Messiah, pure sword&sorcery.
>>343916029
your opinions are shit m8.
>>343914610
M8, Might & Magic was always sci-fi. You find out in the very first game that your planet is actually a satellite created by aliens and the main villain is an alien.
>>343897890
More skeletons
>>343914956
If you are under 35 you are a millennial.
>>343915636
The Dark Spire
SMT Strange Journey
Persona Q
>>343916242
i played Wizardry 2 when it came out, so fuck off
>>343917128
Did you import your party all the way through the first three games?
>>343916057
>>343916180
I'm not doubting any of that.
I'm just saying why it stopped appealing to me when it had such a change in tone.
What are some similar games that stay with pure sword and sorcery then?
I still like the general feel and fantasy of the games.
Is 7 Mages any good?
Mobile ports make me sceptical
>>343917284
Lands of Lore series.
First is a Dungeon Master type game, tile based movement, real time actions, small party.
Second and third are more like M&M6 or King's Field in terms of free movement and real time combat, solo person.
