Why do the final bosses of final fantasy games always come out of fucking nowhere?
>>343836746
Name 14
That's right, you can't!
>>343836746
>Posts the only example of this happening out of all 14 games plus spinoffs
Are you a retard
>>343836746
>i literally only played IX - the post
>>343837614
Uhhh... The stupid looking god that you kill after Barthandelus
>>343837620
>>343837614
Zeromus? Also Neo-Exdeath
>>343837614
III, IV and I and Advent Children kinda do that too.
>>343837614
Ultimecia. Came out of nowhere on Disc 3 and was like "I AM BEHIND EVERYTHING"
>>343836746
>out of nowhere
Did you literally no pay attention AT ALL to the game's theme?
>>343836746
>heavy theme of death throughout the entire game
>death is the final boss
if anything its the most appropriate final boss.
>>343837929
Rinoa has been a party member since disc 1.
>>343837929
You realize she was directly controlling Edea from the beginning, right?
1. Chaos is the first boss reincarnated with no indication of that being set in motion
2. Emperor that you killed is boss wtf
3. Figurative giant space flea from nowhere
4. Don't even know who he is until the last 20% of the game and the guy you thought was the final boss is your brother from the moon
5. Fair enough
6. Knew he was the final boss halfway through but he ascended to godhood?¿?¿ wtf
7. Fair enough
8. Literally who
9. Literal giant space flea from nowhere
10. Daddy issues personified also you aren't real
11. Didn't play it
12. Didn't beat it
13. Didn't play it
14. Playing it
Tactics: final boss is a soul from a rock lolok
I don't know enough about the spinoffs but I'm 1000% sure there's left field final bosses there somewhere to amount to 14
>>343837750
Orphan was not out of no where. You were sent to fight it
>>343837982
>>343838035
>People actually defending Necron
>>343838164
It felt like an asspull at Disc 3.
>>343838139
that theory has no substance
>>343837982
>>343838035
You don't need a literal embodiment of death to come down and shove your face in it. Kuja's motives and Zidane and Vivi's character development did a perfectly fine job of capturing this theme
>>343837825
Neo-Exdeath is just Exdeath though. If you're not expecting some sort of wacky final form than you're off your gourd.
>>343838269
It's fine to dislike Necron, he's not a great boss, but to say that he comes out of nowhere is blatantly lying.
>>343838326
>You don't need a literal embodiment of death to come down and shove your face in it.
True, you don't need it. But Japan is nothing if not unsubtle with what it wants to say.
>>343838213
Ah yeah. I barely remember anything of the game because it was so goddamn boring.
>>343838192
How is it possible you have never actually played any of the games you are bitchig about?
>>343837929
>Disc 3
Well, if we are moving the goalpost, V do that too. Exdeath came out of literally nowhere 5 hours after you start the game.
>>343838307
>asspull
If she didn't exist then Edea wouldn't be evil. Are you using words you don't understand?
>>343836746
>always come out of fucking nowhere?
Fuck you, that only happens in 9, the worst one.
>brother kills you
>fight death to come back to life
I thought that was pretty rad.
>>343837750
>>343837825
>>343837852
>>343837929
>Orphan
Talked about since the start of the game, pay attention
>Zeromus
"It was mind control" is a shitty twist but he's revealed 2/3 through the game and doesn't come out of nowhere
>Neo-Exdeath
Is just Exdeath, the main villain through the whole game
>Cloud of Darkness
Xande's plan for summoning it is mentioned early on
>Advent Children
If you think fucking Sephiroth is a "came out of nowhere" villain then I don't know what to tell you
>Ultimecia
Another shitty "it was mind control" twist but she's foreshadowed throughout the game and is seen as early as disc 2
NEXT
>>343838192
>Chaos is the first boss reincarnated with no indication of that being set in motion
No. Chaos created Garland who created Chaos, it's a time loop.
>>343838587
The writing of FF8 went "you beat Edea, SURPRISE I WAS CONTROLLED BY SOME BITCH FROM THE FUTURE WHO WAS NOT HINTED BY ANY FASHION"
Didn't help that I didn't like FF8 (shit characters, drawing sucked, levelscaling that the game does not warn you about fucked me over to the point where I used a cheat device to beat this shitty game)
>>343838394
>>343838657
Neo Exdeath is the personification of the void itself that appears after Exdeath loses control of it . I can't remember did Exdeath want to destroy everything before he turned Neo or did he only want to rule the world?
>>343838192
Are you 12 years old
Your post is fucking retarded
>>343838906
Exdeath is a tree that wants everything to succumb to THE VOID
>>343838852
By that logic literally every fucking final boss comes "literally out of nowhere".
>start game
>do petty tasks
>SURPRISE SUDDENLY BIG CONFLICT CAUSED BY A FINAL BOSS WHO CAME OUT OF NOWHERE WTF!!!!!!!!
Not every plot has to start out with a quest to defeat the final boss you dunce. Idiots like you are why american game covers have to feature the final boss' face for it to sell.
>>343838657
Everyone was expecting Sephirot at Advent Children but way he returned was so dumb that kinda classifies as "out of nowhere", that's why I said "kinda". If you're an strict dense faggot, then obviously not and everyone knows that.
>>343838906
I thought Neo-Ex-Death was just the amalgam of demons trapped inside the ritual tree being released.
>>343839139
Yeah but I though he would want to use its power to rule. Neo Exdeath says after he destroys everything, he too will disappear. I don't think Exdeath wanted to commit suicide earlier in the game but I might have missed something
>>343839297
Exdeath itself was just the spirits of the tree not at full power.
>>343838192
Jecht is not the final boss. Why dont you go actually play these games, anon? Why waste time on this worthless post?
>>343836746
The question: "When entering the final dungeon, do I know who or what I'm here to kill at the very end?"
In literally every game except IX, the answer is yes.
>>343837852
>III
Your task given to you since the call to adventure was given to you was to fight the darkness that confined you into the only piece of land that the darkness couldn't reach, the floating continent. The final boss is literally named Cloud of darkness. The one who shrouded the whole world when you were babies.
>IV
From the moment the villains had something to say, the focus was on the second moon in the sky that happened to have come one day and made changes in the world. It's only when you meet FuSoYa that you learn the name of the one who screwed up the balance. The final boss was just a ghost alien demon of the one who we learn the name of various dungeons ago.
>I
You are sent to restore the lights of the crystals, for their loss of light has brought chaos upon the world. The final boss is literally named Chaos. it doesn't matter if it was just the first boss you fought, but imbued by the power of the fiends you just fought a while ago. Combined strength and all that.
>Advent Children
I... got nothing here.
>>343837614
There was no indication that Garland was the villain of FF1 until you meet him again in the final dungeon.
To be fair, that was an NES game with barely any plot so I suppose one could argue it doesn't count.
>>343839387
No, he wanted to control the Void to make everything into nothing.
>>343838757
That's not quote right though, is it?
Garland is just some knight who stumbles onto some kind of demonic power, then sends himself back in time to gather enough power to save himself from getting killed.
So he isn't created by Chaos. He kind of IS Chaos, no?
>>343839412
FF1 technically. You know that you're there to kill the boss of the Four Fiends but you don't learn who that is until right before you fight him
>>343839407
Jecht is sin tho
>>343839412
I agree, though Necron didn't come out of nowhere. The fact that the universal reaction to him was "well I didn't expect that" doesn't change that the character being there makes sense.
>>343839713
Sin isn't the final boss, Yu Yevon is.
>>343836746
Necron doesnt come out of nowhere, too bad all you faggots didnt understand the metaphor for Necron and cant understand the reason for is appearence.
It truly must be sad to be this dumb.
>>343838035
Yes, Necron works and fits the game as a concept, but the problem is the execution. The game really should have foreshadowed him better.
>>343839767
Not him but even then that doesn't apply to what OP is talking about. Yeah it's in like the last 10% of the game, but Yu Yevon IS brought up.
>>343839863
Yeah, I know. I am confused as to why you're bringing this up as though it's a relevant point though.
>>343839624
>>343839698
Chaos is the final boss. You know you're there to kill Chaos. It's fucking called the Temple of Chaos for dick's sake.
The twist of Chaos being Garland is irrelevant here. You don't have to know every fucking fact about a villain for it to not have "come out of nowhere".
>>343838192
They already knew kefka became a god. He essentially drained the magic from the statues becoming the new god of magic...that was his entire plot if you actually paid attention.
>>343836746
This was more of a symbolic fight than anything. It was out of nowhere, and I'll admit that. However, you're supposed to view it as more of an emotional struggle than them actually killing a giant monster.
In Japanese, its name is Eternal Darkness, and its speech implies that is just the embodiment of the eventual destruction of all living things. All things are destined to die and are so implied to long to return to nothing so that the cycle of life and death can continue.
Defeating Necron is to not give yourself into that darkness and continue living with a purpose.
>>343839665
I just rewatched the scene where he revives himself from a splinter. You were right
>>343840043
>the scene where he revives himself from a splinter
Man, Exdeath is the coolest motherfucker ever.
>>343838479
For what it's worth, there was nothing blatantly spelling out that Orphan was EVIL until he finally shows up in person. The game made him out to be a victim the party wanted to save up until the ending.
>>343839832
"I see you've defeated Kefka. But now you must face the me! The embodiment of people's inability to let go of the past! Kefka's actions have called me here and now you shall be stuck in the past forever."
>>343840036
I cant believe my eyes, you actually wrote this... I'm so proud of you /v/ there is some hope left, I could add somethings there but this is pretty much it.
Necron is a kind of internal struggle, a fight for all souls and existence, fighting him shows that there is a will to live and existence cannot end while there is will to live.
It's a great final boss that perfectly represents this game's theme of Life, death and existence.
>>343840484
Trance Kuja already fulfilled that purpose
>>343836746
>come out of nowhere
>the entire lead up to it is some dumb furry faglord tampering with the functioning of the Crystal
>every single other time in the franchise some dumb faglord tampers with the functioning of the Crystals [with the possible exception of I, and even then there was Chaos], it summons an incarnation of the Void to clean up the mess
>gee boss I wonder what's going to happen this time
Necron's arrival is unexpected, but not unexplained if you're familiar with how the mythos of the series works.
Only this time it came up wearing this mask >>343840036, the mask of inevitable Death, rather than simply entropy or the nothingness at the end of all things like Cloud of Darkness and Neo ExDeath did before it.
>>343840531
Yeah but he wasn't literally named after the theme so he doesn't count and that means that Necron didn't come out of nowhere.
>People keep arguing that its thematically appropriate when narrative its retarded.
>>343840036
Yeah, I really didn't like Necron when I first finished FF9 in high school, but I've really come to love it as a symbolic final battle. It's telling that every "villain" in FF9 is, ultimately, someone struggling with their own mortality and doing everything they can to stave it off. For any of them to be the final boss would kind of defeat the purpose, I think. Your characters struggling with the darkness inside them is a much more fitting conclusion.
>>343840146
>there was nothing blatantly spelling out that Orphan was EVIL until he finally shows up in person.
There's nothing saying Orphan is bad at all. Hell he maintains the moon, his existence is outright beneficial for humanity.
He just wants to die, and for whatever reason they were programmed such that they're incapable of killing each other, and they want to see God again. Though as LR showed, you question why because God is a total dick.
>>343840342
It's more about conquering weakness. In the original Japanese writing, Kefka is not some cool villain like the kind everyone in the west loves (or at least that was the case before Dissidia made his western interpretation canon in Japan too). He's actually kind of a fucking loser. He's a weakling and a coward who always uses underhanded means because he's too much of a chickenshit to do it himself. Even when he killed his boss, he did it at the guy's most vulnerable point. His obtaining of godlike power was supposed to be like a picked on teenager that got his hands on a gun.
>>343840531
But he didn't, though. Trance Kuja was a fight against a person who failed to conquer the same inner struggle that your party has been battling with (especially Zidane and Vivi). Beating him doesn't carry the weight of beating the physical embodiment of that struggle. Necron is symbolic of what made Kuja how he is.
>>343840484
Glad to be of help.
You have to remember that most people just skim through stories and don't pay attention, so they see Necron and think it's just an actual giant monster thing that comes out of nowhere and wants to challenge you to a duel.
I played the JP version, and its much more obvious what the fight is about in that one. It's also really obvious in any version because Kuja himself is the result of "losing to Necron", i.e. becoming so engrossed and obsessed over your own mortality that you lose sight of what it means to truly live.
Kuja lived his entire life believing that he could never possibly die, so being forced to contemplate his own mortality was more of a shock than he could bear. That entire game itself is about learning to accept your inevitably return to nothingness and using the time that is given to you.
It baffles me that Vivi pretty much spells that out to you, and yet people cannot seem to understand what Necron's purpose in the game was. The reason Necron is there is to give the player control over that revelation and let it play out in a battle because it's a video game.
>>343840807
>He just wants to die, and for whatever reason they were programmed such that they're incapable of killing each other, and they want to see God again. Though as LR showed, you question why because God is a total dick.
That, and I think Orphan longed for a different god. Didn't they want Lindzei, not Bhunivelze?
The whole FF13 trilogy's mythology is a complete clusterfuck and I love it exactly as much as I hate it.
>>343840531
Everyone in this game was a victim of someone else's problems and injustice, Kuja got fucked over by Garland, Garland by the Terrans, this is a big theme, Necron is the ultima final form of despair and unfairness of the world.
Kuja couldnt be the final boss.
>>343840934
>Bhunivelze
Bhunivelze is Lindzei's son iirc, I got them mixed up
>>343840943
>Garland by the Terrans
Did he? He seemed perfectly content with his purpose as the caretaker of the Genomes.
>>343841084
I think it might be the other way around? I don't remember very well but I think Bhunivelze killed the *original* god and then made Lindzei and Pulse and fucked off somewhere, then Lindzei and Pulse made some fal'Cie and also fucked off.
It's unnecessarily complicated but that can be said about the entire mythology really.
>>343840934
They just call the god they want to bring back in 13 "The Maker".
That could be Lindzei, Pulse, or Bhunivelze
The fal'Cie on both planets (supposedly) having the same plan implies it was Bhuni, as both worlds can be traced back to him.
>>343840807
>Though as LR showed, you question why because God is a total dick.
This actually makes sense now that I think of it. A bunch of lesser jackass gods revering a god that's just as much of a prick as they are, while all the heroes want nothing to do with any gods by the time LR hits the climax.
>>343840671
But they struggled and overcame the darkness throughout the game already. Specifically Zidane and Vivi
>>343840814
>>343840943
Kuja is a person who is unable to cope with the idea of dying. Something the party comes to accept and be okay with over the course of the game. The party overcoming him is representative of the fact that they have evolved past his selfish mindset and are ready to live there lives as best they can until they die. I'm not a retard, I understand why they put him into the game, it just seems a little heavy handed is all.
>>343841281
Fair enough, that makes as much sense as anything in the series.
>>343841084
Bhunivelze is Mwynn's son, Lindzei is Bhuni's creation.
Mwynn almost never comes up at all, so I can't fault anyone for not knowing.
>>343841084
>>343841262
Bhunivelze banished his mother, whose name I forget, to the realm of chaos [I believe], and later did the same thing to Etro. He was by that point the sole remaining god of the world, and created Pulse [the deity, not the world] and Lindzei [who's confirmed as being the feminine part of Orphan's initial body, I believe] as arbiters under him.
>>343840913
You're my favorite anon, this is my GOAT video game and I hate it to be trashed by people who cant understand shit and yes, Vivi was the perfect way to connect the viewer to the game's ideas.
I guess unless everything is spoonfed people will disresgard some games as shitty.
Final Fantasy games aren't the only ones to poorly handle final bosses.
>>343841590
MELBU FRAHMA, IS THAT YOU, YOU HUMONGOUS FAGLORD?
>>343841485
>>343841489
God this shit is even more convoluted than I remembered.
>>343841501
The speech Necron makes when he appears is spoonfeeding if anything.
>>343838852
>"you beat Edea, SURPRISE I WAS CONTROLLED BY SOME BITCH FROM THE FUTURE WHO WAS NOT HINTED BY ANY FASHION"
>what is the entire GF/SEED foreshadowing
>>343841501
>Complaining about how others want everything spoonfeed then praise Necron for spoonfeeding you
Ok.
>>343841402
I don't disagree that it's heavy-handed.
I don't know that I agree that overcoming Kuja is symbolic of the party's overcoming their own fear of death--they defeated a powerful enemy, but you're right, they defeated their own inner darkness around the time they left Terra. You're right that Necron is pretty heavy-handed but ultimately I feel like it's earned, so I'm okay with it. I understand finding it a letdown, though.
These days I think the game might have even worked better without a real "final boss" entirely.
>>343840913
I'm starting to come around to Necron now that you explain it like this. Thanks.
I kind of wish he was built up a little more at some point before fighting him, but I digress. I see the point now and I suppose he serves his purpose fine.
>>343841501
Same here. I don't even really care about the FF series as a whole, but FF9 is definitely my favorite RPG of all time and one of my Top 5 favorite games.
I want to replay it on console so I can share the experience with my wife, but Sony refuses to release it on PS4 for no reason.
>>343841779
You mean the fact that GFs eat SeeDs' memories? I don't see how that foreshadows Ultimecia, unless I'm missing another thing with the GFs. i haven't played FF8 in like a decade.
>>343841716
Yes it is, even then I suppose some anons have difficulty putting 1+1 together and analyze the game.
But I suppose these people are the ones who play the game on fastforward and do not pay attention to whats going on.
If you're the same anon that played the game in moon, are you japanese or did you learn it?
Also, I've heard that the japanese version has Zidane and Kuja reference I want to be your canary and other theatrical pieces as if they were imagining the games events as a story from the pieces the used to watch as kids.
Is that true? I think it might just be a rumor and sorry if what I said comes off as convoluted.
>>343841881
I didn't actually mind Necron that much because Final Fantasy has always been heavy handed but maybe if Kuja somehow became Necron like
Zemus-->Zeromus
or
Exdeath-->Neo-Exdeath
That would have been better
>>343836746
The only ones that come out of nowhere are Chaos, Zeromus and Necron.
>>343842194
Sorry I'm not the Japanese anon. I've heard the canary thing too but I don't know if its true
>>343839236
>>343841779
FF8 pushed a little too hard in the other direction of not spoon feeding the story and this weird new shill movement to defend it as enlightened story telling is ridiculous.
>hey dude wanna be some cool ass mercenaries
>a computer mentions GF memory loss
>hours later
>Cid mentions it offhandedly and indirectly
>ok go help some kid kidnap a president off a train
>10-30+ hours later
>aight son the Sorceress is evil, assassinate her ass
>again
>pretty much all of disc 2 btw there's an evil giant fat jew in the basement who financed this Garden
>the end of disc 2
>did you remember five offhand text lines in the entire game? they predicted the big turning point and the entire conflict of the game 40+ hours in!
>>343841678
Yep.
>start game thinking Emperor Doel is the big bad
>then it becomes Emperor Diaz
>then you think the Black Monster is the big bad
>then you think that Lloyd is the big bad
>then you learn the Black Monsteris in your party
>then you think it's Lloyd again
>then you learn that Emperor Diazis literally your father who is 10000 years old
>then you think thatliterally your dadis the big bad
>then you learn that it's the guy who was thought to be dead this whole time
>>343841501
Fukken this, I both love and hate how nobody on /v/ understands IX at all.
>>343842198
Kuja working like Zemus/Zeromus would work, but ExDeath/NeoExdeath really wouldn't, because Neo Exdeath is created by reasons that are not of ExDeath's own volition. He's overpowered by the Void, who seems to have a simple will of its own, or at least a basic of set directives it enforces upon the worlds it link and shared by every incarnation of it we face as a final boss, which can basically be summed up as
>Don't make me come over there!
>>343836746
Because the last half of most FF games is about trying to pull as many plot twists out as possible. But funny enough, Final Fantasy as a series sucks at plot twists.
>>343842472
Also don't forget, if you don't like FF8 you're obviously a Spoony Fanboy!
>>343842627
FFXI had some pretty good plot twist such as Lilith turning out to be future Lisettee or that the future that Lilith is from is the true Vana'diel and that the Vana'diel the player presides in is the false future or that your evil future self comes to kill you, or that Promathia is the father of life in Vana'diel or the Tonberries turning out to be the Kuluu mutated.
>>343842613
I remember very little of Legend of the Dragoon [it's been way too many years since I played it], but Melbu Frahma's reveal was completely ridiculous. All I can remember is Lloyd acting smug as all hell and telling the party "You can't touch me, I'm working for the good guys, look at my boss over there!" at which point this very elaborate character is first introduced to the plot, only for five minutes later Melbu Frahma to pull of his hat costume and yell "FOOLED YOU FOOLS"
>>343842472
I actually really, really like the first two discs of FF8. Edea is a compelling villain, the characters bounce off each other well, the gameplay is pretty fun (even if you can leapfrog the power curve with magic refining), the world is interesting, it's all very cool.
But then the "you all knew each other as kids but you forgot because of GFs, and also Edea was your guardian and married to your headmaster" twist happens and it's alllll downhill from there. Everyone's character development screeches to a halt except for Squall's, which happens entirely in the time it takes to switch from disc 2 to disc 3.
It still has its moments in the second half, but it just goes so far off the deep end that I just can't stay invested.
>>343842472
>if the plot twist wasn't foreshadowed right in your face then it sucks
What's the point of a plot twist then? Why are you so retarded?
>People are trying to argue that Necron is good writing even though its completely hamfisted, redundant, and is completely out-of-place in the narrative.
>>343842472
I would never say FF8 has a particularly good story. Its basically a cross between a school based romance anime and a shounen battle anime. It basically told the same story found in the first 3-4 arcs of Naruto about a year before Naruto came out.
What I will say however is that its means of telling its story, allowing the player to uncover extra things by talking to NPCs and not spoonfeeding it to you, was better than most FF games.
Also, having recently replayed it, a lot of the internal dialogue Squall says is pretty damn funny. He's pretty much walking around pointing out how stupid everyone else acts. And the game gives you tons of dialogue choices where you can put down Rinoa. Calling her plans stupid, claiming she's an ignorant child, telling her you don't want to give her a tour of the garden, etc. If only this continued into Disk 3 and you could not get into a relationship with her.
FFVIII has just as dumb of a story as other FF games. But its just executed slightly better.
>>343843302
I agree, Squall at the end of Disc II is two degrees removed from being my favorite protagonist in the entire franchise, because his character development up to that point is amazing.
Then disc III hits, all of it is dropped and never picked up again, and he becomes a complete idiot for no reason
>>343843159
Yeah, that's a decent summary of the endgame.
Which Final Fantasy has the best story? My vote is 7 with 10 being a close second.
>>343843534
>and he becomes a complete idiot for no reason
That's the power of LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE!
>>343843761
All of their stories are pretty crazy but I likeXII's the most
>>343843761
I'll go with V, it's not the most complex or deep but it's just complex enough to be interesting and lighthearted enough to have an adventure feel to it, while still being able to deliver a couple great punches to your gut
>>343843761
>FFX
>best story
Its tied with FFIV for the dumbest story in the series. Luckly both games had some of the better gameplay of the series to distract you.
>>343843761
Are we including spin-offs? If so, Tactics by a long shot. While the political story is ultimately more interesting than the Lucavi/Ajora plot, Delita and Ramza's conflict alone is some of the best stuff Square's ever done.
If not spin-offs, then my favorites are VI (the characters deal with some actual, mature issues often in actual, mature ways), IX (Vivi makes it), and XII.
>>343843328
Not as retarded as you nigga, damn.
>FF8 pushed a little too hard in the other direction of not spoon feeding the story and this weird new shill movement to defend it as enlightened story telling is ridiculous
Read what I said. There can be a balance. I don't need to be spoonfed who the villain really is. But on the other hand there needs to be some connections that can be picked up on or the twist has no meaning either.
It's like Fallout 4's twist. You get all of 10 minutes to bond with your kid and then everything in the game hinges on you caring about him but you don't. Likewise everythign in FF8 is supposed to be a dramatic reveal about 11th dimensional chess but they forgot to make me give a flying fuck about all that shit in the first place.
It IS very interesting that Cid financed the Garden with the help of some weird fat fucking alien guy and now he's betraying us. But we come into the middle of that conflict and learn about the meat of it after he's dead.
It IS interesting that GFs eat memories and everybody knew each other but we learn about it in a gloriously stupid clusterfuck at the end of Disc 2. If you interpret ONE scene differently you might pick up on it(Irvine hesitating to shoot Edea but NOT because of cowardice.) It's super easy to not pick up on that.
It IS interesting what Ultimecia's entire plot is or that Adel got shot into space and you can see their static screaming in the early game but you can't pick up on any of that unless you wrote the game yourself or you have somebody tell you it after you beat Disc 3.
It just goes on and on with all these interesting things and a cool unique setting but none of the pieces are used in the right order.
It was a surprise when Garland told us he was using Chaos and the Fiends to create a time loop as the culmination of his efforts after we had seen what those things were. It was a surprise when Kefka swiped Godhood and blew up the world as we learned about the basis for all that.
>>343844010
FFX has really great ideas and a cool world, but to say the execution is ham-handed is putting it mildly.
>>343844052
We can include spinoffsbut I've never played FFT
>>343844052
I feel like including Tactics is cheating, senpai. That game stands on a category all of its own, not only due to its quality but also because the very structure of the game makes comparing it to the others apples and oranges.
>>343844010
The main story itself is not even close to being the dumbest in the series. It's very internally consistent and everything makes at least some sense. Also I said 7 had the best story in my opinion
>>343843430
Now I'll agree with this. FF8 has a fantastic setting and some great character interactions and picking up bits of lore that are semi-hidden is great.
>>343842613
Most of those are so blatantly spelled out ahead of time only an idiot would be surprised by it.
>>343844224
Both are fruit, lady. What's the problem?
>>343837825
Zeromus was explained in the plot before you fight him.
>>343844585
Seconds before.
>>343843418
here >>343840913
>>343840036
>>343840484
you should be able to understand it now.
>>343844585
Zemus was explained before you fought him. I do like the Zeromus fight a lot but he literally comes back to life for no reason other than the game needed a final boss
>>343844428
This is a thread about final bosses, dude
>>343844124
>start game
>"Hey Squall, make sure to pick up your GF from the computer"
>turn on computer
>read lore
>proceed to not be completely dumbfounded when the plot twist happens
woah..............
You are literally, LITERALLY complaining about how you spammed X through all the dialogue and didn't read anything because 'muh speed running a fucking FF game'. In an already casual series you're actually whining about how it wasn't even more casual so as to have your party remind you that GF overuse could cause memory loss every time you summon one. By your own logic, Kefka becoming a god was literally out of nowhere and therefore a stupid plot twist because the game didn't show us explicit scenes of him plotting to do so.
>>343844345
>It's very internally consistent and everything makes at least some sense.
Even if everything is explained, that doesn't make it good. But FFX has one ongoing flaw. Its 'Tidus' story', yet 90% of it revolves around Yuna. And in the end, her entire pilgrimage and point in the story is usurped by Tidus.
Everything you do while following Yuna around is world building. Which is fine and all....as long as the world building actually ties into the plot in some way. But everything you do ends up being pointless since Tidus just convinces the entire team to quit the pilgrimage and fight Sin directly. Which could have been done 2 hours into the game when Tidus met Rikku, who was taking him directly to Zanarkand by boat. Even if he didn't fall off the boat, he would have obtained the airship, learned of Zanarkand, learned about Sin and had all the plot tools he needed to defeat Sin.
In the end, Yuna's only point in the story is to be a teenage crush for Tidus and be a story trigger in the final battle. The 20-30 hours you've been following her around is essentially pointless filler. Which we call 'world building'.
>>343839297
Yes, Exdeath is himself an amalgam of demons inside a tree.
He's basically like naraku.
>>343844010
Funnily IV is considered the quintessiential FF story in Japan, with Cecil easily being one of the most popular MCs.
>>343836746
Why? hack writing, they couldn't figure a way to write the ending to make Kuja lose to the party so instead they pulled an asspull so Kuja would lose
>>343845226
>But FFX has one ongoing flaw. Its 'Tidus' story', yet 90% of it revolves around Yuna. And in the end, her entire pilgrimage and point in the story is usurped by Tidus.
What's weird is that XII did something very similar with Vaan and Ashe, but it actually works better, largely because Vaan passes the protagonist baton to Ashe pretty early on and the game commits to being an ensemble cast in a way X doesn't.
That, and Balthier really *is* the leading man. He's not the protagonist, but he calls the shots more often than anyone other than Ashe.
>>343844585
When you are standing literally on the moon and only have one more dungeon to go through. And even if you want to overlook how quickly you learn about Zeromus, you have to realize that the most important plot points in FFIV are fucking stupid.
>Kain and Cecil are used by Golbez
>Golbez is being used by Zeromus
>Golbez and Cecil are sons of moon people so lol its okay they were being used
>Kain still has no excuse but keeps getting used any time you need to lose a teammate
>Edge is also a descendant from the moon, but never gets used
After all the stupidity, Zeromus gets introduced. Right before the end of the game. Golbez turns into Naruto and the second moon flies away.
And don't even get me started on The After Years.
>>343845226
How could he have possibly beaten Sin that early in the game? Also remember that literally no one even knew that Yu Yevon was still alive. They find that out through the journey. You are absolutely right about the characters but I was talking about the story not the characters if that makes sense
>>343845147
>a few lore blurbs and a character acting strange once in the first quarter of the game are enough foreshadowing for a huge plot twist that you don't see for tens of hours
The game says GFs cause memory loss and yet it never actually shows that until the twist that everyone conveniently forgot growing up together.
Well can all agree that X is reprehensible dogshit, right?
>>343845875
>Edge is descended from the moon
???????
A non-shitty FF plot thread? You're alright sometimes, /v/.
I remember dropping 12 fairly early into the game, it just wasn't flashy enough for my 13 year old self to handle, but I've heard it has a wonderful story. Any one want to explain the plot to me? Or is it available on the PC somehow for me to try out one day?
>>343846029
Maybe because it is explicitly said to officially be 'unconfirmed', and then ends up being confirmed by the party. So of course you wouldn't be seeing widespread GF amnesia throughout the game since it's supposedly so rare there aren't enough cases to confirm it exists. Try actually reading text.
>>343846180
Emulate it or wait for the PS4 release
>>343845226
>But FFX has one ongoing flaw. Its 'Tidus' story', yet 90% of it revolves around Yuna.
Yet unlike Vaan, Tidus IS the main character. Yes you're following someone else's journey, but everything is from his perspective and it's his character that influences everyone and the plot.
>Which could have been done 2 hours into the game when Tidus met Rikku, who was taking him directly to Zanarkand by boat.
She wasn't, I was playing last night. She was going to take him to Luca, she said so.
>>343846180
There's a remastered version coming out in the future, wether or not there's a PC version is currently unknown.
Ultimately the plot structure is far closer to Final Fantasy Tactics than a normal Final Fantasy game. Have you played that?
>>343846331
It doesn't help that outside of drawing them from bosses as a gameplay mechanic and a throwaway line from Selphie, you literally never see anybody else who junctions a GF
>>343846180
You must've heard from retarded fanboys then because the story is pretty shit. Pretty generic 'warring nations' stuff except you pretty much don't participate in it at all and just watch from the sidelines as you go on an ultra long fetch quest which is actually the main quest.
>>343846128
Fusoya says both Cecil and Edge are descendants of the Lunarians. Though I don't remember him explaining who Edge is related to.
>>343845753
Vaan was never the protagonist, he's just the pov.
It's not an uncommon storytelling element. Ahab is the main character of Moby Dick, but he's not the one telling the story, Ishmael is, who despite being an important pov he's basically a non-character in terms of doing anything.
>>343846574
Ultimecia junctions a GF. Also junctioning GFs just improves your own abilities aside from Ultimecia's fusion. If you mean you wanted to battle people who summoned GFs as well then I guess that would've been neat but not really important to anything.
>>343846029
Don't forget that everyone trains for years to be able to tolerate junctioning GFs. But Rinoa can do it as well for no particular reason. But hey, this is a game where you can switch GFs with people who are halfway around the world and presumed dead.
>>343846331
>implying I said it had to be widespread
At least a few lines here and there from a few NPCs or something would be better than the game mentioning it and not backing it up at all until way after most people would forget about it.
>>343846921
Might as well complain about how stupid it is that everyone stands around taking turns to perform actions in battle.
>>343846180
You can easily emulate the International Zodiac Job System version with an English patch. It looks pretty great upscaled to 1080p--as a late PS2 game it's surprisingly good-looking.
The International version has English voices so the patch just swaps in English text.
It's worth a try. I personally love FFXII, it's in the running for my favorite in the series, though a lot of people hate it with a burning passion.
>>343846863
Yeah, this is true. Vaan is Ishmael or Nick from Great Gatsby. What I kind of love is that Ashe is the protagonist but she's also the last person to formally join the party (Penelo rejoins a few minutes after Ashe joins, but she's in the party for a while before Vaan sneaks into the palace).
>>343846885
Actually Ultimecia junctions herself to Griever. Prior to that she creates Griever but doesn't junction it; you fight Griever directly.
>>343847069
Well I actually prefer turn based combat. But in the case of FF games, it is pretty stupid that it takes 10 seconds for the ATB bar to fill, then the characters still take 3-4 seconds to 'set up' and 'move'. Why aren't they spending that 10 seconds setting up and moving towards the enemy?
You now realize people who dislike various final fantasy games completely misunderstand them
>>343847257
Because it's a video game. Are you really this autistic?
>>343847297
Or maybe they understand them and you are overlooking the flaws they bring up.
>>343847069
>comparing a legit plot hole to gameplay that the entire series up to 8 had used
>>343847257
Part of it is the technology of the PS1 games. Take a look at FFX-2 or FFXII, where the character animations do a great job of working in rhythm with the ATB, or where traditional ATB gets free movement pasted on top like in FFXII.
>>343847491
whynotboth.jpg.exe
>>343846590
No he doesn't.
>>343847025
>I need at least 1 NPC per area to remind me of GF amnesia or else it's a shit plot twist
The point of a plot twist is to surprise you, moron. But a good plot twist is still foreshadowed, which GF amnesia was, except it was done subtly so as to not ruin the surprise and make it predictable. Personally I was surprised at first but then remembered that computer text from the beginning of the game so I felt it was a satisfactory plot twist. Meanwhile you X'd through everything so you could rush to the end then couldn't feel the impact of the twist because you hadn't been paying attention. That's all there is to it.
>>343846574
Every member of SEED uses a GF.
>>343847493
>plot hole
Where in the plot does it mention that Selphie had Ifrit junctioned to her then later mentions that Squall had Ifrit junctioned to him at the same time on the other side of the world?
>>343847570
They also could have just gone for pure turn based if there was technical limitations. Instead, they went back to pure turn based for FFX, which could have supported faster ATB.
And unpopular opinion time. But while I prefer turn based combat, I can see how FFVII might do better with more action oriented combat. Don't know how they're going to make Materia work though.
>>343847995
I wonder how the Emerald Weapon fight will work
>>343847995
While I don't really love FFX's story, I do love its take on a turn-based battle system. It's really good stuff. I like its equipment system, too.
(That said, the gameplay utterly falls apart in the post-game. The bosses stop requiring interesting strategies and just start requiring max stats and multi-hit attacks that deal 99999 per hit, so you're required to use only your celestial weapon + an armor with very specific abilities, and a party of Tidus, Wakka, and Rikku. It goes from a game with cool, varied combat and equipment that was more interesting than the usual vertical progression, to just a flat-out numbers-fest with Auto-Phoenix serving as your HP. It gets so boring.
>>343847919
Quistis is a SeeD when she joins your party and doesn't come with a GF.
Zell and Selphie, and even Seifer, are Balamb students don't have their own GF despite Squall starting the game with two.
Nobody talks about using GF ever except for Selphie in one scene.
>>343848137
Or how anything underwater will work with Square trying to focus so much on realism.
>running into Rufus' sunken ship now triggers a 10 minute docking procedure
>bumping into ultimate weapon in the sky crashes the Highwind
>>343842620
You're reading too much into it. The game tells you Exdeath is a tree trapped with a bunch of demons inside. All the Void probably did was release them in the final fight.
>>343848523
>the snowboarding mini game is replaced with a QTE mini game about dodging trees
>Aeris can be revived with a DLC code
>Lightning is a playable hidden character
Remember. You fans asked for a remake!
>>343848523
>>343848940
>Press X to throw Sephiroth over the rail!
>>343848940
>Tifa starts out with her Advent Children costume and you have to buy DLC to unlock her original costume
>>343836746
No matter what you say that dude is the 2nd hardest boss. Just due to the fact that he gets 4 turns and grand cross can kill.
>>343847784
>subtly
A few notes on a computer that primarily inform the player of the existence of GF amnesia plus Irvine hesitating to shoot Edea isn't foreshadowing it "subtly", that's almost nonexistant, especially since you don't see the twist until way past that. It's a shit plot twist because (A) outside of those two things it may as well come out of nowhere, and (B) it doesn't affect much in the overall plot.
>Meanwhile you X'd through everything
I'm not even the anon you argued with in the first place.
>>343847923
>Where in the plot does it mention that Selphie had Ifrit junctioned to her then later mentions that Squall had Ifrit junctioned to him at the same time on the other side of the world?
Nowhere because that's not what that post was talking about.
>>343849218
No, let's get stupider
>you have to buy dlc to unlock bigger tits
>>343849382
>subtle
>ˈsʌt(ə)l/Submit
>adjective
>1.(especially of a change or distinction) so delicate or precise as to be difficult to analyse or describe.
Wow it's almost like it was literally, LITERALLY, unironically, subtle! You being too stupid to read text doesn't change the objective definitions of words, dumbass. It was literally subtle, and you were literally too stupid to see it. End of story.
>>343849602
bigger tits AND clothing damage when KO'd
>>343848284
I agree with you entirely. I actually like FFX's world but another reason I like it is because during the main campaign battles are almost like puzzles. First it's basically rock paper scissors. Then they start fucking with you midway through with fights like Seymour 3 and Yunalesca. And then as soon as you approach the endgame it's basically Disgaea where you grind for big numbers for the rest of forever.
>>343849608
>I have no argument so I'm gonna to nitpick your grammar and call you stupid
OK.
>>343850050
>It was subtle
>NUH UH NO IT WASN'T COZ I SAID SO!
>Yes it was see this dictionary definiton, it is literally subtle
>lol w/e doesn't matter u hav no argument
OK.
>>343845875
>Kain and Cecil are used by Golbez
The first 5 minutes of the game are Cecil and the troops questioning why the king is acting like a fuck. IV isn't hard to follow.
>Golbez is being used by Zeromus
He's literally Darth Vader.
>Golbez and Cecil are sons of moon people so lol its okay they were being used
Cecil is the only one in the party to forgive Golbez. Redemption and forgiveness are the entire fucking theme of the plot. It's why Tellah's entire story was that he couldn't let go of his hatred and died a mostly pointless death for it.
>Kain still has no excuse but keeps getting used any time you need to lose a teammate
Because Kain's an asshole and he admits it. He's jealous of Cecil's personal success and that he can never have Rosa. He even states he wasn't being used against his will. He leaves Baron at the end pf the game in order to go own his own journey of personal redemption. It's why he removed his helmet in the same way Cecil removed his.
>Edge is also a descendant from the moon, but never gets used
Probably a shitty mistranslation.
>>343836746
It's more of a trope from the older ones (pre PS) and 9 (because it was trying to be like the older ones).
>>343838852
>SOME BITCH FROM THE FUTURE
>FUTURE
Should have seen this coming since you had already time traveled and played as Laguna a few times before the reveal
>>343850437
ummm if Squall didn't explicitly say "woah I just TIME TRAVELED back to the past I wonder if I'll ever TIME TRAVEL to the future heh *wink wink*" then it was a nonexistent foreshadow piece of shit plot twist
>>343850257
>IV isn't hard to follow.
Yet its trying to be overly deep and complex. You unknowingly hit on the problem of FFIV. It tries to make so many plot twists, characters deaths and story flips that it becomes cheesy and cliche.
Some of the story concepts in FFIV are fine. They are just executed poorly. But many of the story elements in FFIV are both stupid and executed poorly.
>>343850641
It should have tipped you off that some time fuckery was going on. FF isn't exactly knowning for spelling shit out to you since a lot people never even realized JENOVA and Sephirothweren't Cetra after all
>>343836746
He's literally the only one.
>>343839863
That's the problem. Yu Yevon is foreshadowed like crazy and namedropped well before you fight him. And even if the poster of >>343838192 was right and Jecht was the final boss, you know from like 1/4 of the way in that you'll have to fight him eventually too.
>>343850787
Heck, most people who played VII don't realize thatall of Sephiroth's ingame dialogue outside of the flashback is really JENOVA
>>343850257
Yeah I can't find anything about Edge being Lunarian either
>>343850957
Others will debate that shit to deathand probably spam CLOUD ACTUALLY KILLED AERISbut this has always been my view on it as well.
>>343850957
>>343850787
I honestly didn't pay attention to Sephiroth and Jenova after the crazy scene in the basement. Aside from Jenova attacking you a few times, Jenova and Sephiroth don't really factor into the progression of the story much. The focus shifts to Rufus, stopping Shinra, a few Turk fights, stopping the weapons and stopping Meteor. And after a disk and a half of fighting everything but Sephiroth, you suddenly face him at the end...and kill him in 1 hit.
>>343851248
Oh, I forgot. Hojo also randomly becomes the main antagonist at the end after Weapon and Rufus are gone. While I understand the story, it just didn't do a good job of having a central antagonist.
>>343851248
>you suddenly face him at the end...
as if it wasn't spelled out from the beginning that's what they were going to do
>and kill him in 1 hit.
>implying Reverse God/Bizzaro Sephiroth wasn't the shit and Safer Sephiroth wasn't an absolute beauty
>>343849608
>>343850196
Being mentioned right at the beginning at the game and only hinted at once is being so subtle that when the twist hits it looks retarded as fuck because the writers couldn't add in another hint or two.
In Crisis Core there was a bit of an asspull when gift-of-the-goddess-kun summons that fuckhuge avatar with the power of Gaia's apparent goddess. But then you have to fight him one on one anyways so I guess it doesn't matterHD remaster fucking when?
>>343851637
Its spelled out near the end of Disk 1. But yes, obviously you were going to fight him. But you overlooked my point. For much of the game, you are avoiding him and fighting everything else possible. Shinra, Turks, Weapons, Hojo, etc. And even near the end, both Shinra and the team are trying to find an alternate way to save the planet besides fighting Sephiroth directly.
By the time you finally do drop the barrier and jump into the planet to fight him, it feels like you've already gone through half a dozen boss fights. With characters who all had more development in the plot than Sephy did.
>>343851964
>you overlooked my point
I had no issue with what you were saying until that last line which is why I quoted it
>>343851947
Never, same reason it's not on psn. License ran out on using Gackt's likeness.
>>343852210will we ever see Cissnei again?
>>343852372
That on the other hand is possible.
>>343851964
>development in the plot
He's literally dead for the entire game except for maybe the very end
>>343838326
You do if it's a boss fight.
So which FF had the best song?
http://store.ffdistantworlds.com/album/distant-worlds-music-from-final-fantasy
http://store.ffdistantworlds.com/album/distant-worlds-ii-more-music-from-final-fantasy
http://store.ffdistantworlds.com/album/distant-worlds-iii-more-music-from-final-fantasy
>tfw they made it easy as fuck to rip all the songs from their site
>>343851729
>blaming others for your poor memory
>>343853347
No contest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0JnXdfoYpY
>>343853347
In game, Final Fantasy IV with Trodian Beauty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_9Dc7USBhY
Remixes later on, FFVII with Main Theme and Aeris' Theme or FFVI with the Opera: Maria and Draku.
