Do you prefer Akira Toriyama or Ken Sugimori for monster designs, /v/? And why?
>>343654384
>Left is generic and unmemorable
You tell me
>>343654384
If only there existed an exhaustive list for designers responsible for each Pokemon design, but alas we only know of some specific cases.
the real question is are you: a DQfag or PKMNfag?
>>343654384
They're good at completely different things.
>>343655635
Like what? Please do tell the differences.
>>343655054both
>>343654384
Pokémon.
Outside of the Slimes, DQ monsters look way too fucking ugly.
>>343655896
Sun/Moon monster designs looks largely worse.
Sugimori barely even made any good designs, the majority of his Pokemon are complete garbage. Squirtle was made by Atsuko Nishida while Sugimori is responsible for masterworks like Magnemite, Diglett, Torchic line, Jet Dragons, mom's dog and the gen 6 legendaries, just to name a few.
If you mean Sugimori older design that's a much tougher choice. I love how more animalistic they were. Now they are more cute a charming.
Toriyama's designs however are always weird and enjoyable to me. It's not that they are meant to be cute (most are however) but he always had a design that is his own that just seem to work...most of the time.
Kazuma Kaneko
The only good DQ game was the first one
>>343656616
who?
>>343654384
Both but I like more their old style though
>>343655896
Maybe because they are monsters?
>>343655635
Both are good drawing monsters but they use the same palettes of faces with humans designs
How exactly they are different?
>>343656748
SMT
the guy with the feet problems and same faces
>>343656838
Monsters just mean something outside of the norm, they don't all have to be ugly.
>>343656904
>those painted toenails
Oh man
>Monster deisgn
It's all about the vehicles.
>>343656838
pokemon are more cutesy and toned down while DQ can have some comical faces but can get a bit detailed,
>>343656904
>same faces
that's mostly any artist problem
>>343656904
best demon coming through
>>343657021
Funny enough most of the designs where from Horii giving him ideas from western games like Wizardry and Ultima which Dragon Quest is based heavily on. And Toriyama just did things his own way.
>>343655550
>Nopan
Lewd as shit I wanna lick her abs
yu no rika surimu op?
Has Ken ever designed a non-pokegaymen monster?
>>343657256
Man I love SMT
>>343657738
Kaneko old and new style are both cool, also is impressive how good he can render metalic textures
>>343654384
Sugimori for collectible pals, Toriyama for JRPG enemies and Saturday Morning cartoon bosses.
Coincidentally; that's what they each do.Aside: Pulse Man is also a legit good design and GF should be using that IP to takeover where Megaman left off
>>343657885
>necks
Soejima's biggest problem are eyes. Seriously, everybody is cross-eyed
>>343654621
I'd actually pay good money for that
Nomura
>>343658478
Why was Tetsuya Nomura in the credits of Chrono Trigger?
Why so many different artist for SMT games? Why not just stick with one?
>>343657885
Whats wrong with those feet?
>>343658896
is kaneko
Toriyama should design a Pokemon.
>>343658686
you tell me pham, he did a bunch of odd jobs like debugging before though
>>343658957
No I mean, what's wrong with them? Why are they wrong?
>>343657885
Doi humans best humans
>>343659297
They look like legos set pieces.
>>343654384
Dragon Quest and Pokemon are both great for their series and I'd hate to be rid of either. Dragon Quest monsters wouldn't work for Pokemon, and Pokemon wouldn't work for Dragon Quest.
>>343654384
god, both those designs look awesome. never played DQ. How do I get started on DQ? Any recommendations list to go through?
>>343660248
DQ5 or DQ8. DQ Monsters or DQ Joker if you want a pokeman game
>>343654384
How could anyone prefer Pokemon designs? They look fucking stupid for the most part. DQ Monsters are diverse, unique. and badass.
>>343656517
The day I became a chubby chaser
>>343660691
cant blame you
>>343654384
Toriyama, his monster designs are fantastic. They're a great blend of Western and Eastern design philosophy that transcend cultural borders and maintain a very unique mass appeal. There's a reason the slime is iconic as it is.
They work wonderfully as 2D sprites and translate very well into 3D too.
He's my biggest inspiration so I'm 200% biased. Sugimori definitely has some good designs under his belt.
>>343660621
Pokemon are a lot more simple as a whole, and have a similar mass appeal as a result. Simpler forms/shapes make for cuter and more marketable characters, not to say there aren't Pokemon that go against that grain (namely post-gen one), because there are. Pokemon is plenty diverse and unique in its own way.
>>343660621
>>343654384
>only DQM-esque game on PC is Siralim
When is this series going to come back?
>>343654384
Toriyamas designs are nice and all but it feels like beating a dead horse
>>343661226
>still using fedora meme
>>>/reddit/
>>343659297
The angle of the toes implies that person is standing on the ball of the feet, as well as turning their heels inward. We should see the heels, but we don't. And if the person is actually standing on the ball of their foot, it would have to be on the same level as their toes, but here it's above them.
The toes have no flexibility and are missing a joint. Also the inside of your ankle is higher than the outside. (maybe the opposite, don't remember exactly)
Basically anatomy/perspective problems.
>>343661312
Great argument, thanks for informing me what is popular an some other website you seem to know a lot about. Excellent contribution to the thread.
>>343660691
I prefer muscular
>>343661536
>Great argument, thanks for informing me what is popular an some other website you seem to know a lot about.
Yes because posting a picture of a guy in a fedora is the quintessential way of forming an argument.
>Excellent contribution to the thread.
But I actually gave my input and opinion, unlike you who just posted a meme.
>>343660934
Since you seem to actually know about character design, I was wondering.
Is there some kind of artstyle/design focus/art shit difference between old a new Pokemon? Maybe it's just me, but it feels like theres something about new pokemon in general that just seems different. I've never been able to put my finger on it though.
Am I crazy?
>>343660934
I don't like the "short, hunched over fat ogre" body shape that Tori seems to abuse
>>343661832
>respond to shitpost calling something bad and something else "[unique and badass]" with a fedora
That's pretty much the appropriate response to that post.
>But I actually gave my input and opinion
You certainly did that, but the contents of your argument were
>Toriyama is for kewl contrarians
>Pokemon is 4fagz
Like, you made no points - you arbitrarily made weightless statements and hence the fedora tip
>unlike you who just posted a meme
It's funny, I bet you don't know what the word meme actually even means.
Do you have pyour mother's permission to be on this site, little guy?
>>343657885
Yasuda is the best one
>>343661270
There is Wizardry 4
I don't think I can ever get tired of Toriyama's style, but I really don't like that a majority of Sugimori's modern pieces uses this weirdly plastic approach to colouring.
>>343662115
The disparity between the old Pokemon and new Pokemon is due to making a lot more flashy colorful monsters as opposed to something a bit more functional. The original 151 had a lot of designs that served a purpose. "We need a crab? We'll make a crab. We need a seal? We can do that!" leading to a roster of great "pocket monsters" that's sure to delight everyone in one way or another. The originals aren't all perfect, but for the most part they were very well designed.
I'm not going to say the new ones are bad at all, but as time went on they had sort of used up a lot of basic animal/mammal design blue prints and had to opt them out in a way. A lot of the most recent designs are just sort of monster blobs with several stripes and colored doo-dads that don't really had much to the design, and definitely don't adhere the the precedent set by the original set. On top of that, presumably there are more people designing the Pokemon as well, which leads to a greater disparity per-generation than the original I'm sure. There are still good designs in the newer gens, if I look hard enough I could find some, but as a whole they've strayed away from what made the originals so good.
>>343663278
The Red and Blue art had a lot of character, and I believe a lot of it had to do with how it was colored.
>>343663552
The tone in this post is calm and controlled, but it's still the same retarded genwunner dribble.
>>343663278
I got this a couple months ago, it's mostly Quinty and Jerry Boy manga and it's cool
>>343663708
the truth is that pokemon desgins are just terrible in general with some exceptions
>love Toriyama's monster/non-human designs
>think his human designs are invariably fucking horrible save for a select few
anyone else in the same boat?
>>343663708
Almost like how the post is just the typical retarded anti-genwunner dribble. So what does it matter?
Both have their pros and cons to be perfectly honest.
>>343654384
Ken. They are more often more simple, and grounded in reality. And extremely memorable.
However Toriyamas designs are extremely charming, and make for great enemy types in RPGs. I never quite get as attached to them in games even where I can recruit them.
Both are GOAT JRPG series.
>>343663839
I like his people when they feel more round and loose. DBZ never had what I liked from him, with all the sharp-edged body detailing and how angled all the faces during all the fighting. The original Dragon Ball had a lot of nifty "people" designs.
>>343662115
Not that anon, but are you referring to the newest Pokemon?
There have been tonnes of stylistic jumps throughout Pokemon - to the extent that the first two gens look like a completely different series altogether.
A lot has to do with the styles that are popular right now with their target audience; that audience being Japanese kids, primarily. You should be able to see some similarities between Yokai Watch characters and the newest Pokemon. You'll see a lot of the colours they're using now, too, in the newest JPop music videos. There's a large part of the design process based around that. Back in 1996 fantasy JRPGs were the big games and water-colour character portraits were the standard - now it's plastic blobs.
That's not the biggest issue I've found with the newest ones, though. Well, specifically their localised names are fucking garbage and it's making reasonable designs come across worse... But on top of that, and using the fish - Bruxish(?) - as an example: the early designs/character portraits were like a document of a species, whereas the new ones prescribe attitudes and personalities to the Pokemon (on top of them looking like they could never actually exist in real life). They're toys/cartoon characters and not fantasy monsters... Essentially.
It's a hard thing to explain off the cuff though. I hope that makes sense to you and isn't jibberish
>>343655550
>female warrior
>has clear muscle definition while still being hot as fuck
Why is this so difficult for every other developer?
>>343663839
That's more or less what everyone says. Akira is fantastic when he doesn't have to do humans. He should have just made a monster series and go nuts. Though my current holy grail is a game where Oda is the main artist. His creatures are unmatched.
>>343664183
Keep in mind that the anime isn't Toriyama, but people who emulate his style.
>>343654384
Left:Monster
Right:moeshit
>>343664364
Too bad toriyama doesn't understand muscle anatomy at all
That's not what muscular legs look like
>>343663839
absolutely not
>>343664289
That makes a ton of sense. Bruxish looks like it's straight out of YW
Toriyama does some okay stuff but his monster design could use some variation.
Like a vast majority of his designs are basically the same shape with a different color and a horn added/removed here and there with a weapon change.
>>343663708
Hey, you're free to chime in and tell me that the change in design post gen one isn't like how I'm saying it is, man. I mentioned Seel in that post and Seel's design isn't great, it's real bland and lacks and sort of landmark features aside from its cute lil' face and a horn on it's stupid head.
I'll even one-up you by posting a design from Gen 6 that I think is pretty good and unique. Malamar has a good silhouette going on, and has a genuinely neat concept with the whole "upside-down" squid thing. Let me find some egregious "color blob" examples of Pokemon.
>>343664639
>>343663839
His machines are beautiful though
>>343663839
Mid 80's Toriyama was god tier. It's really when Jump forced him to continue Dragon Ball is when everything went to shit. Dragon Quest was when he was able to just have fun and do whatever he wanted.
>>343664639
>>343664837
Post more Toriyama art.
Does anyone have that chart showing off toriyama's different styles as he progressed?
>>343665671
I downloaded them all from here http://theartofakiratoriyama.tumblr.com/archive
What is the best way to BUY the Drabgonbal manga uncensored in English, I feel every version is one fuck over after another. Can't a name just look at Bulma's tits in peace
>>343664770
Here we go. These are the kind of Pokemon that come off as "a whole lotta nothin'" to me. They exist as these bizarre mishmashes of color and form that don't have any focus to them, sans maybe Exploud or Siglyph. The Espurr evolution is legitimately one of the worst designed Pokemon every created, and it seems like the only people who like them are diaperfurs and a few other degenerate types.
Pokemon are at their best when they have a clear vision, and a competent design that conveys said vision. Ideally they don't have too much or too little color. Their shapes/forms lend well to their personality/archetypes and take inspiration from well known animals/mammals/monsters.
A gen 1 Pokemon I could never defend is Mr. Mime. He's a bizarre bulbous mangle of circles. They could have pushed his whole barrier motif further through his design, and dialed back on the pantomime/performance angle.
>>343660934
>Super Saiyan Blue Ozaru
deepest lore
>>343667465
I think Exploud is pretty cool to be honest. You can tell from his looks that "loud sounds" is his thing.
>>343667465
Are you serious? I'm not even whoever you were replying to, I'm >>343664289
>These are the kind of Pokemon that come off as "a whole lotta nothin'" to me
>Pokemon are at their best when they have a clear vision, and a competent design that conveys said vision
The thing about 'design' is that a 'design' needs to properly house and communicate everything it is meant to. Something is designed with a purpose in mind - in the case of Pokemon you look to its plot - that plot being: young [boy] embarks on adventure/[grows up] encountering Pokemon along the way. Every Pokemon represents something from real life - be it an actual animal or an idea. A lot of them are ideas because the child you play as has to face all sorts of ideas/attitudes/situations throughout his adventure just as any person does growing up.
Every Pokemon is designed to be an exaggeration - a monstrous one - of something you encounter while growing up.
There are some iffy Pokemon designs - the Gen5 Monkeys and Lumineon for example - but every single one you posted is actually pretty good - except maybe Heatmor.
You're not looking at them for their purpose, so you've not actually analysed their designs properly.
>The Espurr evolution is legitimately one of the worst designed Pokemon [ever] created
Like, if you're the same guy who was calling himself a wannabe designer above then you've got a long way to go if you've come to that conclusion
>>343654621
Yeah, it's such a shame. I've only seen some pictures posted on /vp/ with designers that aren't on that one Bulbapedia list. The only one I can remember is that the chick who designed Victini made a few more garbage designs.
>>343667180
I think VizMedia's Dragon Ball is uncensored except for Mr Popo's lips as absurd as that is.
>>343663130
Wizardry 4 is nothing like Dragon Quest Monsters
>>343667465
You best not be serious with based totem pole bird, he's brilliant even if half of his design kinda overlaps with the ideas behind Xatu
I like how Meowstic has the psychic set of second eyes in their ear folds, and the sexual dimorphism extending beyond just looks into their battle capabilities is great but aside from that they're kinda uninteresting. I still wouldn't call them bad.
Exploud is the final evolution in a line of bass cannon: the Pokemon, I don't see what's wrong with it. It's full of horns to blow sound out of and a big gaping mouth
I'm not a big fan of the musketeer guys, but I'm also not sure why you're picking on Terrakion alone
Heatmor is a furnace coupled with an anteater who melts ants made of metal with a flaming tongue, it makes little sense to present him without his 'partner' species Durant, and I love both, especially Durant. Heatmor has the usual flame pattern motif going on that plenty of Fire-types have.
Yeah, I don't know about Purugly either. I guess it was designed to be an early game boss monster, since it's used by the first Team Galactic Admin you face.
Illumise, I don't know about this either. Meowstic makes the sexual dimorphism thing work fine, but Volbeat and Illumise are different species for some reason. They're fireflies, which on a concept level is very interesting and they seem to have some weird clothing thing going on but I wouldn't call them the most interesting gen 3 designs.
Eelektross is a big electric eel monster, what's wrong with it? (other than its first stage being a skyfish and an eel being its evolution being a bit of a waste)
>>343663552
There's loads of Pokemon in the later gens that are just animals with a slight twist the way Gen 1 did. The designs expanded, but I'd hardly say they lost anything.
>>343663278
I think his humans look better now, but i can agree with that for the monsters.
>>343663839
It depends on the era. I'm not a big fan of his dbz beefcakes that were present in dq5 and 6. 1-4 and later 7 and 8 have nice human art.
>>343667726
>implying the old man remembers
>>343669058
It sounds like you're a lot more familiar with these characters than I am, I'm basing my judgements entirely around what I'm presented with, and the design conventions from the original 151 or so since this all stemmed off from one anon asking me about what happened to Pokemon as time went on. Most, if not all of my issues lie with how far they've strayed from the precedent set with the first roster of Pokemon.
>Every Pokemon is designed to be an exaggeration - a monstrous one - of something you encounter while growing up.
If this is the case I'd love to read more up on it and gain more insight on the franchise's philosophy as a whole. As far as I know the concept of "growing up" seems to only come up through the Pokemons evolution, the player character doesn't exactly exhibit this outside of the quest to topple the gym leaders, elite four, and becoming the new champion. I want to say your rivals through out the game sort of go through a similar arc, but a bit more fleshed out given the fact they've actually got some dialogue.
again, my interpretation of the designs I see are based on just the visual design, perhaps seeing some of the ones I've posted in motion my help, as >>343669502 would lead me to believe there's more to these designs that are just flying over my head.
>>343666304
Nice, I love Toriyama's early art. Is there a good place I can read a translated original Dragon Ball manga?
>>343667726
Don't fuck with DQ Apes
>>343671504
Don't get me wrong, the designs you picked out are guilty of not hammering their concepts home as well as some others, but yeah they've a lot more going on than you might have thought.
The whole coming of age plot is pretty central to Pokemon. The game was originally designed to have you play as a kid going on an adventure and facing adversity to [fully experience the world] - that's as coming of age/growing up as it gets. Pokemon's big thing, though, was the social aspect where you, the player, would then have to go out into the world yourself to collect the rest - so you then come of age with the game.
The designs themselves then serve an educational role when you figure out what they are based on; the idea being that you encountering more people to get more Pokemon means you'll end up discovering what Pokemon are based on as different people will "get" the ideas behind different Pokemon... And then that one kid tries to convince you Squirtle is a "squirrel-turtle" because he's an idiot.
So, Pokemon's main deal is (or at least was) to give children an ice-breaker/incentive to get out into the real world, while offering them a virtual adventure which both encourages a real life adventure while also being relatable after the fact so you grow with the game.
A lot of people are so attached to the series because of this.
I've sort of gone way off topic, though, haven't I? Sorry.
>>343667465
I agree for the most part. I like the psychic cats for some reason. Probably the fact that they keep it down to 3 colors that don't horribly clash.
Terrakion and the rest of the seers are truly some of the worst designs in likeminded history. Garrish colors, stupid spikes and odd spots, not even interesting in-game.
But as someone earlier said, sometimes I think they make hatable garbage like purugly to serve a purpose, to villify team galactic and serve as an early game boss and nothing more. Maybe they could have achieved that while also creating something the player would want to train, but I think that they think there needs to he shitmons for people to appreciate the cool mons.
>>343671504
"While growing up" just means during childhood here, not representing coming of age.
>>343658817
They all stick to their own sub-series, though. Yasuda does Devil Survivor, Soejima does Persona, etc.
>>343665671
Here
>>343664884
>It's really when Jump forced him to continue Dragon Ball is when everything went to shit.
He wasn't forced
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/intended-end/
SMT demon designer is best.
Even the ones with a lot of pointless features still look awesome.
>>343654384
Sugimori didn't design squirtle, you faggot.
>>343672573
No you're fine, I just wanted some more insight to better understand the concepts you're throwing at me. I never took advantage of the social aspects of the games when I played them, and as time went on they have, in a way, discouraged more personal social encounters by giving you convenient online trading options.
>The designs themselves then serve an educational role when you figure out what they are based on; the idea being that you encountering more people to get more Pokemon means you'll end up discovering what Pokemon are based on as different people will "get" the ideas behind different Pokemon
That was an aspect that made the games fun in a special kind of way, learning what the names meant, provided they had any behind them. Some more straightforward than others (Golem, for instance). I like that Geodude could be seen as a portmanteau of geode and dude, as well as just being a dude with a "geo" prefix.
>>343672581
Purugly is certainly ugly, but I think they've could've made something ugly and good-looking! I would hope they aren't purposely designing bad Pokemon.
You know, some of those Yo-kai I've heard so much about have cool designs.
What went right?
>>343654384
Early Sugimori is amazing
>>343674027
Is that supposed to be the final boss from this.
>>343674027
>Summer Sale
>Square Enix promoting their sales
>Dragon Quest Heroes isn't one of them
I really want to buy it but not willing to spend $60 on a musou like game. Yes I know it's not really a musou game but I still don't really want to spend that much for it.
>>343674331
>Square Enix in charge promoting Dragon Quest
>>343674526
I know I know. I just hate how unwilling they are with Dragon Quest. They feel like since Japan is completely in love with it they don't need to do anything with it here even when they promote it anyways in Japan even after all this time. It's fucking maddening!
I'm currently struggling to put together an RPGmaker Dragon Quest / SMT-esque game. Any mechanics that people might be interested in? I'm currently in love with the basic differentiation of a per-monster trait, but that only goes so far.
>>343654384
Kenji Watanabe
>>343674662
As long as you don't go too overboard with spells and make them all useful in some fashion all is good. That's always been the strength of DQ/SMT is their spells/abilities selections.
>>343671504
>>343673869
Don't take this in a bad way, but it seems in a lot of cases where people outright dislike Pokemon monster designs for reasons other than the general art shift away from watercolours etc. it's because they just don't understand its inspirations and concepts behind the design. Which, I reckon, is why so many think so fondly of Pokemon that are "animal, but with a twist", because those are simple to grasp.
tetsuya and nomura
>>343674887
More Kenji
>>343673869
What's so wrong with purugly? The inspiration on persian cats and how some people find the really cute despite how strange they are is pretty obvious (same with snubull and the fact that mostly female trainers use them).
>>343657885
>hating on Suzuhito "glued on softball tits" Yasuda's anatomy
I don't even. He draws best girls
>>343662115
Like the other guy said it has a lot to do with trends but the art style shift also tends to go in line with the technology for their respective gens. G1 and G2 (and to a lesser extent 3) designs were more stout to accommodate for the screen size. G2 had the washy 2-3 colored mons for the GBC. G3 added a few more subtleties and colors to the mix and everything after has been following suit with the usual exceptions of early game mons and non-legendary mascots.
Also whoever someone wants to compare new gens to old gens they usually throw out Sugi's early watercolors so that affects your perception.
![065[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/1NTOR5c.png "065[1].png")
>>343675327
To add to this, I don't completely agree with >>343672573 either. Some designs are simple enough that even children without much experience of the world can tell what they're about, but there's also plenty with more obscure roots that can leave grown-ups scratching their heads... or thinking "wow, that's so cool". See the new mascot legendaries for Sun/Moon. A lot of people, me included, were a little confused when the sun lion isn't even Fire type, but its inspirations could like in alchemy (a lion devouring the sun). It's hard to tell for sure until we have more information about the new monsters, though.
>>343676097
>>343676665
>>343664639
okay but he's used those same exact faces and bodies for like 30 different characters
>>343674657
That's why I believe that the merge was a mistake.
>>343676665
>>343676596
Solgaleo is certainly based in part on Alchemy and on Island mythos, as is its counterpart Lunala or whatever you spell it.
Lunala's name is also a reference to a Lunula as is it's general shape - though I'm not sure how deeply pendants work into their design, them being protectors in the same way a [lunula] pendant was meant to protect a young child is probably worth noting.
I don't understand the whole sun = fire thing people have conjured up. First of all, that lion isn't the sun itself, it's an emissary of the sun... Secondly the sun isn't made of fire.
It's not as out of left field as Mew - based on a disproven evolution theory that connects all lifeforms with a common ancestor as the foetus theoretically mutates from one life-form to another as it develops in the womb... Or something like that. (+ cat ears)
>>343674103
Nothing can beat that watercolor look.
The way they drew the characters in that original gen was much more loose and dynamic. It's so sterile now.
I think some of the new designs are just as good as the first 150, but they way they're drawn is just flat and lazy.
>>343677728
Mew in the original japanese versions of Red and Green was made to look like a fetus, but changed to look more like a cat because he looked fucking horrifying.
>>343677936
I never heard of that. Could you post a picture?
>>343664369
Oda's creatures are pretty hit or miss, the Punk Hazard dragon looked fucking atrocious
>>343676947
Everyone believes the merger was a mistake. Right before it Enix was finally giving us back Dragon Quest. With DQ7, DQ1-3 GBC, and the two monster games. And only pre-merger we missed was DQ4 and 1+2 Monster for PSX which is more of the fault of Heartbeat going out of business than Enix refusing to give us it.
Now we have to beg for even the mainline titles.
>>343678762
And for comparison, here's what mew changed to.
>>343678762
>>343679312
Funny because NoA actually wanted to change all the pokemon in Red/Blue but NoJ/Gamefreak told them to fuck off.
>>343678762
I really wish it stayed as a horrifying, unstable mess. 'Pink Cat with the big tail that can learn all the moves' doesn't work the way they worked it.
I wish the Pokemon design team would remember that they're supposed to be designing monsters primarily - not everything needs to be a beanie baby.
>>343658340
This. I want to know who keeps designing the shitty ones. Aside from that one guy we know who made the lobotomy snow cones.
>>343679540
The change was made in Japanese's Pokemon Blue version, which was an updated version of the original with new sprites. It's the version that places out of Japan got.
>>343679985
It kind of an impossible wish because this was released at the same time of the game and looks nothing like it, while representing the TRUE look of the Pokemon as the game couldn't properly.
>>343663803
sure, buddy.
>>343655054
Drunk Greygnarl is Best Dragon
>>343678762
Neat!
>>343680353
Yeah... There's always the chance that they'll further flesh out the Mew lore in a Gen 1 sequel or new South American region in some cool, post-game spooky laboratory. They could always do more with the clone thing and have a grotesque Mew progeny as well.
Wishful thinking, though. We'll end up with Synchro-Mega Mew which is just Mew with a cape and longer ears.
>>343679985
You're forgetting that Pokemon's primary target are kids.
>>343681142
>Gen 1 sequel
I wonder if that'd be a Gen 2 sequel or if it'd take place in between the two.
It'd also be cool to be able to go to johto in the endgame, since Gen 2 made it clear both continents were right next to each other.
Boy am I overthinking this.
Amano
>>343674103
I'm sorry man but besides the watercolors old Sugimori art wasn't that great. Look at that fucking Charizard. He was really bad with definition and keeping their designs consistent, and all of his old humans are fucking hideous.
His newer art is infinitely better and more well-defined but he just sadly stopped using watercolors.
>>343681545
Kanto and Johto are part of one continent.
>>343655054
Well they're two different types of games so it's unfair to have to choose only one.
>>343681356
No I'm not, I'm well aware of that as is evident from my saying that earlier in the thread.
Plus, a slightly creepy sprite is hardly going to traumatise anyone. How is a slightly more concept accurate Mew any more horrifying than half of Generation 1's Pokemon? You're trying a little too hard, Mom.
>>343681545
I suppose a sequel to both? I'd want it to be most recent in the timeline if it's ever done.. And I think sequels should be made and not the remakes we've been getting. There can always be more towns in regions that weren't in the originals because the protag just didn't go there and Pokemon he never discovered because of it. It'd also get the nostalgiafags, not sure why they refuse to do it.
>>343654384
Definitely Akira Toriyama.
Pokemon will never be as great as Dragon Quest.
>>343681142
That's dumb. Both of Mewtwo's megas are nothing like that and accentuate its power.
Y copies AGAIN from Frieza sacrificing size for even more psychic power, it doesn't even need to walk anymore. Its tail retracts and its second neck evolves into a tail-like object and its head becomes bigger to accomodate a bigger brain.
Mega Mewtwo X sacrifices a bit of psychic power to power up its thin arms, making them thicker and protected, its hands become proper hands. Mewtwo's armor becomes bigger and its legs are now even longer for devastating kicks. The whole body has a more "wild" look and a glacial eye that scares who dares to fight it.
Mega Mew would probably be something very simple that accentuates its connection with Mewtwo, something like this maybe.
Megas aren't just stuff shat on right on the spot you know, a good attention about their design goes into them as well.
>>343673298
His style got worse with each new phase, guess he really was an artist.
>>343682170
Calm down El Hijo Del Autismo, it was hyperbole. If you were following the discussion you wouldn't have written such a weird reply - with such a terrible illustration of a concept ignorant monstrosity.
>>343682170
>The tail moves to the head
That's stupid.
>Megas aren't just stuff shat on right on the spot you know
Had me fooled with shit like this
http://dogasu.bulbagarden.net/features/sugimori_kens_works.html
>He then says that when he was first assigned to do the artwork for the pokemon back in the Red & Green days it was for the official guide books that going to go on sale soon. The only artwork that existed at the time were the sprites that had been ripped from the games and so Mr. Sugimori had to go through all that pixel art, one by one, and draw the pokemon based on these sprites. During this time he would change parts of the pokemon he didn't like for whatever reason. The book doesn't expand on this at all, but I imagine he's talking about things like the position of the skull and crossbones on Dogas' body or how Fushigisou stands on four legs instead of two. Mr. Sugimori tells us that his job is to basically give the series a uniform style so that the fact that all the pokemon are designed by so many different people with their own different art styles isn't quite so obvious.
>>343681803
his new art lacks a certain "cool" factor that the old art like in your pic has
>>343678762
looks like a sperm with legs. Which kinda makes sense I guess
>>343669259
>>343680115
>>343658340
>>343654621
Literally 2 seconds on Google.
Ken Sugimori has only designed a handful of Mons, but he's the one that draws the final official art for everyone.
>http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/User:Altruis/List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon_by_their_designers
>>343654384
They're different idiot.
>DQ- Monsters are trying to kill you, meant to be threatening
>Pokemon- Monsters are your main allies and join you, meant to be seen as friendly and like pets
Both Toriyama and Sugimori's modern art is terrible.
>>343681664
Too bad there will never be a game that uses/captures his art style
>>343682708
>an exhaustive list
You have shown me nothing that I do not already know, anon.
>>343682513
>That's stupid.
It was the only passable Mega Mew without a shitty helix tail or circular shell.
>a ROCK Pokemon, the only one of its trio without spikes, gets spikes made of rocks, giving it an "ancient" look explaining how normal Aerodactyl evolved into a lesser threathening form due to the lack of predators
How is that weird?
On top of that the whole "all megas get spikes and that's it" is dumb, the only ones who gets them and didn't had them before are Aerodactyl and Houndoom. That's it, 2 out of 50.
>>343682750
>Modern
This isn't the 1850s to the 1950s, pal, Modern came and went a long long time ago. Contemporary is our current term and 'recent' would be the word you were looking for
>art
They're illustrations, don't use the wrong nouns
Everything else about your post is good though
>>343683060
It's too psychedelic, it wouldn't come off right in 3D. It is cool though.
>>343678541
Which one? There were two.
>>343654384
They're both childish as fuck.
>>343683060
>>343681664
>Squenix has character designs and art like this they could use for a game
Nah lets just make monochromatic boy bands instead
>>343654384
Right, Sugimori is generic as fuck
>>343683060
Maybe it's for the best. His style is very much an acquired taste.
>>343683060
I fucking wish. I love Amano's stuff, and he's one of my inspirations as an aspiring """"artist"""".
Although I'm not sure how you could properly capture his style without making a game that is impossible to visually parse. Probably the only way to preserve it would be a Wizardry-style game that uses static art for everything. 3D just wouldn't work and animating 2D stuff like that would be a nightmare that would probably end up looking like a rainbow in a blender.
>>343682567
if you're talking about the poses, there also exist far more mundane-looking renditions of the gen 1 Pokemon. Sugimori redrew them all around the time they started marketing Pokemon for the western world.
>>343683479
Please show us some more mature designs? Clearly you're an intellectual who many respect.
These games are meant to appeal to everyone, of course they're silly you dumbass.
>>343683325
Could work with cel shading like Okami. But Square rather be more "realistic"
>>343683060
I think a 2D game with sprites on par with vanillaware's stuff could potentially capture his art style
>>343656616
came here to post this
>>343683516
I've ALWAYS wanted a final fantasy game that looks like the old concept art. Shit is straight up beautiful, and the games looks kind of ugly. (Good at the time, but didn't age that well)
>>343683251
>Giving it an ancient look
There's nothing fucking ancient about it. They took replaced his arms with spikes. They added spikes on his wings. They added spikes on his legs, they added a spike to his chin, they added spikes to his cheek bones.
This is signifies ancient rock bird to you?
>All megas get spikes and that's it
Nowhere did I fucking say that. What am I going to say is that about 50% of the megas are horribly designed, with extra features thrown onto them for no reason. Look at Houndoom or Tyranitar. The former they slapped on shoulder pads and accentuated the spikes and made them look unnecessarily large, as if the dog is going to fall over any second. And with the latter they made his body grow tumor spikes all over.
>>343683804
There's no need to be salty.
>pic
Here's a few.
>>343683637
>>343683917
>Wizardry-tier difficulty with quality Amano-style art
One day
>>343684064
FFXV is basing enemy designs on Amano's old concept art
>>343684081
Those are pretty good but are from silent hill, a series meant specifically for adults and horror fans.
Not everything has to be mature and serious.
>>343681803
>Look at that fucking Charizard. He was really bad with definition and keeping their designs consistent,
But that's what made it cool. Seeing the monsters with slightly distorted proportions and going off-model was what gave them a little more character and personality than what we got later. Also what made the old sprites cool. The official models are too sterile and boring in comparison, everything is too crisp and clean.
>>343683325
I liked this though
>>343683637
>>343683516
I don't think the technology exists to really pull it off right now. Maybe in like 5 or 10 years they could do it.
>>343684369
>everything is too crisp and clean
That's actually my problem with anime now. Lack of any roughness. I love the hand drawn designs which always had a offness to them.
>>343683741
yeah, I guess it's a combination of posing and coloring
>>343684309
Cool!
>>343684369
>character and personality
God knows how much I fucking hate these buzzwords.
>>343684560
Yeah I don't really expect anybody to be able to render a design like this in 1080p or 4K any time soon
![005Charmeleon_RG[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/HltsAnJ.png "005Charmeleon_RG[1].png")
>>343684857
This is the old illustration for Charmeleon, while what you posted was the newer one.
>>343684908
God knows nobody gives a shit.
>>343654384
>not both
>>343684081
I wonder how long we'll have to wait before theres another mainline SMT game on consoles with his art designprobably forever
>>343685078
different anon
>>343685220
>his
>>343654384
Toriyama.
Guy's work is kinda incredible but ppl think he only worked on Dragon Ball and Draque.
>>343684070
>This is signifies ancient rock bird to you?
Yes. In fact it looks like something else to me.
>The former they slapped on shoulder pads and accentuated the spikes and made them look unnecessarily large, as if the dog is going to fall over any second
"Just slapped on" is what every Pokemon evolution does. Houndoom "slapped on" a pair of horns and a collar on Houndour. I now have a tame dog with no ears? ITs collar evolved and to me it looks like it has the shape to injure enemies near it. If M.Houndoom bites an enemy it would be difficult for them to retreat with those spikes behind them. And considering what Houndoom's fire does...
And don't go and tell me about balance when things like Blastoise exist.
>And with the latter they made his body grow tumor spikes all over.
So like Tyranitar did to its previous stages.
![vegeta[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/kiQNojO.jpg "vegeta[1].jpg")
>>343685539
>>343677931
I think it's only really his stock artwork for the pokemon that aren't too great. He drew this the other day, and it's got a really nice, sketchy kind of look to it that gives it a lot more character.
this reminds me
what game has better baddie designs than Dragon Quest?
the only franchise that i think contests it is Kirby
>>343685427
replied to the wrong anon. I was talking about Kaneko
>>343664369
But that isnt from the anime, that's Akira's style from the original DB manga and Dr Slump
>>343685775
90s era Megaten.
>>343685078
I don't understand why they put this guy in charge of the official illustrations.
Did GF not have a more competent artist?
>>343685708
You're getting upset over an illustration/character design that you had nothing to do with being criticised... You are aware of this, right?
And another illustration is hardly evidence supporting Aerodactyl's Mega Evolution being anything in the realm of a continuation of its core concept... You maybe don't understand anything about designs or concepts and are just getting upset because you're really into Pokemon.
I'm really into Pokemon too, I'm a professional art-maker and I know an awful lot about concepts and design so maybe you should stop trying to argue since you've no idea what you're on about.
This thread is about two illustrators and people stating their preference, its not a platform for you to evangelise your undying, unconditional love for Pokemon as a whole.
>>343686047
He was the best artist that GF had in the pokemon era, he still do some nice art from time to time.
>>343654384
>Left is a character
>Right is generic turtle with anime face
>>343685775
Mother series.
>>343686047
Game Freak started out as a video game fanzine run by a couple of video game nerd friends. They then became a small-time developer themselves and made games like Mendel Palace and Pulseman. Sugimori may not be the most technically skilled artist even today (something he admits readily) but he was most likely the most qualified person among them back then.
>>343686320
I forgot I had this game until just now. I got it on release, played until you fightjirachi while tis asleepand just stopped playing for whatever reason. I think the first witcher 3 expansion came out but not 100% sure
>>343685764
>>343686664
>>343686320
Why the hell did he never use this sort of illustration style for the stock artwork of pokemon? It looks miles better.
>>343686671
Sounds like you were just getting to the good part. I recommend you get back into it.
>>343686985
>GAMEFREAK
That's why
>>343686320
Very nice. I understand why people prefer his older art, but really I think a big part of it is the fact that it was drawn traditionally as opposed to his digital stuff nowadays. In terms of technical skill he's better than he's ever been - His characters look a lot more solid and three-dimensional.
>>343686293
>you're upset
>you're upset
>you don't understand anything i'm a professional so my opinion counts more
Ok dude, whatever. I'm not sure where you see this "upset" and nobody is denying you being a proand the things that come with it. However calling for tumors and unnecessary details without even explaining what's wrong with them and only saying "slapped on this and that" doesn't work.
>This thread is about two illustrators and people stating their preference
Oh really. To me it looks that and people randomly insertting their favorite artists there and there plus a discussion and opinion sharing on how Pokemon's designs changed over the years.
>>343687231
>However calling for tumors and unnecessary details
That wasn't me, and you seem to still be very upset about absolutely nothing.
>>you don't understand anything i'm a professional so my opinion counts more
I never presented an opinion in the first place since an opinion; a personal take on something - liking something or not liking something, is literally irrelevant in any discussion. What matters specifically to you doesn't matter in any way to any other person so arguing with an opinion makes no sense... So I don't do that. I discuss using objectives and facts based on definitives from our literary culture.. Because that's how you discuss design and stuff. It sounds arsey, but that's what it sounds like when you use the right words.
>artists
Again, illustrators... Toriyama is also a character designer and an author, though. Sugimori is an illustrator and solely an illustrator. Use the right words. You don't call a chemist a geologist.
Anyhow, a lot of the Mega's are forced for the sake of having them - it's true. And a lot of the new Pokemon designs - the most recent ones - are bad. They're bad designs and they're bad as Pokemon. If you read the thread you'll see a post that succinctly explains that.
That's what the thread is for, read it befor eyou post.
Cool, thanks.
>>343686561
>>343688018
>They're bad designs and they're bad as Pokemon. If you read the thread you'll see a post that succinctly explains that.
I can't see any such post.
>>343685775
I wouldn't say they're necessarily better, but Kingdom Hearts has a lot of neat baddies and they're all very unified (design-wise) in a cool way.
>>343688627
>>343688469
Probably because the American education system failed you and you're unable to read on even a literal level, let alone understand an underlying theme or concept, let alone understand the waning quality of design in Pokemon due to the current state of Pop Culture relating to children in Japan at present.
Unfortunate.
There's no helping those who can't help themselves. It's why meme suddenly isn't solely a term from a theoretical social science and why I can effectively tell who to avoid at a party because anyone who calls a painting or a drawing "an art" browses 4chan.
>>343689040
It's not me being unable to read or the post not being clear enough. There's no such post, period. In the case it actually existed it'll have a single, but major flaw that prevents it from being legitimate.
Oh and>American
>>343689351
If you're not American and can't find a big, well written post on a thread on /v/ then you're just a retard or British, m8
>>343689562
I see big, well written posts in this thread but not one posts that tells me what i quoted here >>343688469
And again, if there is, it has a major flaw that prevents it from being legitimate.
>>343688627
>>343688754
>Nomura
>>343689941
The only major flaw in this thread is you, pal. Stop shitposting and either read the thread or leave the thread - you're literally just trying to look cool on an anonymous image board. It's really sad.
>>343686561
Starmans design is flawless.
Vidya artists/aspiring vidya artists, who are your favorite vidya character designers? Favorite character designs? Biggest influence? Have you designed characters for any personal projects?
>>343690275
>you're literally just trying to look cool on an anonymous image board
I'm not being a pompous guy proclaming about being a professional in art and understanding all that exists at conceptual level.
Either show me this post without the particular flaw i mentioned, or shut up. I'll stop when you stop.
>>343690475
Slime. So incredibly simple but so fucking perfect.
>>343690516
>demanding to be spoonfed
>trying to force me to scroll through a thread on your behalf because you're too lazy to read through it
Nice entitlement, faggot, how about you do something for yourself instead, yeah?
Like, maybe the reason you can't comprehend a discussion about design and concepts is tied to the reason you can't read a thread yourself... Do you want me to hold your dick while you piss as well, lad?
I'll give you a bonus tip, should you ever get any motivation to not be a lazy, worthless pile of uneducated shite... It helps to read the books that shape society's understanding of culture through design. Babby's first steps in any creative field is to read Barthes - he's the easiest, after all, and most widely applicable.. And he's good. Mythologies and Image.Music.Text. Read them, you should start understanding things then.
Also..
>pompous guy proclaming about being a professional in art and understanding all that exists at conceptual level
Nah, I noted I'm educated on the subject and am more of an authority than you, which was obvious because of your vapid posts. Plus, it's true and you haven't been able to argue with me, have you? And, while I am pompous, I wasn't being pompous at all here - you've just got an inadequacy deal in your head and you're projecting because the thought of someone criticising you upsets you... Even though criticism is a good thing, you're just a sheltered brat, I guess. That would explain the demand to be spoonfed.
You can also have this picture so you can see what a real man, who doesn't argue about things he doesn't understand, looks like.
>>343679540
>Funny because NoA actually wanted to change all the pokemon in Red/Blue but NoJ/Gamefreak told them to fuck off.
I'm a little late to the thread, but is this true? I can't find anything on Google about NoA wanting to change the entire Pokemon roster for the localized release.
>>343693370
http://www.nintendojo.com/features/the-revised-history-of-pokemon-red-and-blue-versions
"The localization team suggested re-designing the Pokémon to be more menacing, but Nintendo President Hiroshi Yamauchi disagreed, feeling that the games could be successful as they were if handled properly; what was wildfire in Japan could surely be in America, too. "
>>343694131
Interesting, I had no idea they wanted to do that. I wonder what effect it would've had on the franchise in the West had Game Freak gone through with making the designs more menacing.
>>343694330
Don't know. Maybe it wouldn't be as big since girls are a big part of Pokemon too. So making it more menacing would have had a impact on girls that just like the cute pokemon. Plus there's the anime which makes all the pokemon looking fairly cute.
>>343688309
>mother
>bad designs
You serious nigga?
>>343685914
And the anime, which mimics his style is what that image shows. Damn good mimicry, that's for sure.
>>343686664
>>343696327
>>343697135
>>343656442
Didn't know this. Thanks
Squirtle is one of my favourites and I'd been giving Sugimori undue credit.
That said, I still love Sugi's gen 1 art. Are there any books I can buy for this?
>>343698008
>>343698413
>>343698965
>>343699564
Akira for human designs ala DBZ
Ken for creature designs ala Pokemon
>>343656904
He barely does monsters, it's all humans with weird features.
Also his style looks stiff
>>343685182
Unbound hoopa kinda does look like he could pass for dragon quest final boss material.
Probably needs more horns though
>>343682513
I think it'd look much better without his rock goatee
>>343700131
>>343696327
>THAT FLARE GRUNT
>>343701615
