Prove me wrong
>patrician not sonic 1
kill urself desu
Plebe: CD
Reasonable: 1, 2
Everyones favorite: 3K
Secretly has the best taste: Triple Trouble
>>343396135
Sonic 1 is "throw things at the wall and see what sticks: the game". To this day it surprises me that Sonic 1's atrocious pacing gets a free pass - whether you like Marble and Labyrinth or not, it's pretty undeniable that those stages, among other things, completely buttfuck the flow and pace of the game.
True patrician coming through.
Sonic 3 levels didn't have shit on Sonic & Knuckles levels.
>>343396048
Oh yay, a new meme well have to see posted 10000 times now because you faggots can't think of anything else
>>343397001
I get where you're coming from but you might as just stick to Sonic 3 & Knuckles for the Super Emeralds and save feature.
outta the way, sonic fucking shits!
>>343397001
That game was basically just the other half of Sonic 3. I don't consider it a different game; it's just an expansion pack.
>>343397205
I'm so disappointed this didn't take off and have sequels that were as good as the original.
>>343397126
I guess, but I can't really consider those games as a single one since when i was a boy I had to rent them and always had to choose just one.
Sonic & Knuckles was just so much more fun, and since I always had to start both of them over every time, mushroom hill was a blast compared to Angel island.
CD is one of the worst games in the series and has nothing to offer besides music, sonic 2 goes to shit about 60% in and death egg is complete bullshit, and sonic 3 and knukles drags on way to long and every stage has stupid fucking gimmicks that make the levels last like 7 minutes or some shit.
In short, old school sonic games are fucking garbargio family. Just port heroes or unleashed to pc already, release the anniversary game, and let the little guy rest at last.
>>343397205
Good taste my friend.
>>343397353
>shits on the classics for poor pacing, gimmicky levels and generally dragging on and going to shit
>praises sonic heroes
wew lad
>>343397353
>calls classic sonic garbage in one sentence
>asks for Heroes and Unleashed ports in the next
I'll concede on Unleashed because it had some genuinely good parts but I honestly do not understand why people rate Sonic Heroes. I figure it must be nostalgia from PS2 kids since it was the first real multi-plat Sonic. The game itself is fucking terrible.
>>343397353
Bait?
>>343397430
>>343397660
Baited?
Just like Spyro interestingly enough.
>>343397580
The only "classics" (how anyone can call such a shit trilogy this ill never get, but its what sonic fans have latched onto) that have bad pacing and drag on is 1 and 3 and knuckles. CD is nothing but gimmicks and 2 is actually pretty solid again, up until maybe 60% or so. I forgot where it got bad. I think everything after hill top. although I did enjoy metropolis too.
Sonic heroes has a great vibe to it with the graphics and music, i unironically love the voice acting/dialogue since like other sega games in the early 2000s it has a cheesy movie feeling to it making the game feel like a genuine adventure with your buds, the levels are much faster than anything in the old games, and the gimmicks are more interesting (pinball table rollercoaster hell, canyons constructuted out of rails, frogs summoning rain effecting the terrain, everyone holding on to the leader after starting up a flower etc). Never had problems with the controls since the day i got it so that wont fly on me. If i had to knock it down, it would be for the special stages. But even those are easy if you use the power character.
>>343397660
hm, try gc and xbox kid. 100% it on both platforms.
>>343397825
I don't think you've been in enough Sonic threads if you think Heroesfags and Unleashedfags are baiting
>>343397917
>hm, try gc and xbox kid. 100% it on both platforms
I did play it on Gamecube and 100% it, I have no fucking idea where you got that idea from. The game is bad regardless.
>>343397310
I thought the snes one was fine.
but yeah, that one that came out a few years ago....
>>343397987
No im not telling you that you didnt play it. i said i played it on both gc and xbox and 100% it twice on each system.
>>343397860
What's Spyro CD like?
Why would I when you're right.
>>343398017
It was fine but nowhere near as good as the original. Like I can beat the original, the SNES one & even more so the Genesis one I can't play for long. I need to try out that new one though just out of curiosity, it's been sitting in my Steam library for a while now.
>>343397917
welp, you triggered me
sonic 1 is very flawed, i'll give you that. the game was experimental and was a mixed bag because of this. it's easily the weakest of the classics
now sonic two i'd have to entirely disagree, if anything the game is a mix of amazing and still solid stages throughout
Emerald Hill and chemical plant are fantastic and iconic as fuck, with chemical plant being widely considered one of the best stages of all time.
the game slows down with aquatic ruin and casino night, two of the duller stages in the game. while not outright bad, they just slow the tempo down a lot.
then we've got hilltop and mystic cave, two fantastic stages, with a great mix of speed and precision required to navigate them, with brilliant soundtracks in both
then we hit oil ocean. a very polarising stage. some like it, some hate it, I'm personaly not too keen on it
metropolis zone is a great challenge and easily the hardest stage, being a final test being the story kicks in
SKy chase and wing fortress complement each other so well and is a theme used in so many games since you can see why it's so well loved.
and death egg zone, what a tense place. after following robotnik to space (new for the series) you fight a double of yourself!? (again, a crazy twist in the minds of those who played it on release) in a battle to the death, with no rings no less!
fianly, we get to robotnik, and he has a mean fucking machine, and as an imperial marching theme plays, you must duke it out with maybe the hardest sonic boss to date?
so yeah, fuck off with your "gets shit 60% through", the game is a masterpiece start to finish. does it remain at it's peak all the way through, no but it's sure as hell consistant
I like CD the most, but 3 is more well designed.
Sonic Heros is fucking garbage, get over it. The idea of replaying the same fucking levels 4 times over was retarded idea, at the very least each team should of has them in different order.
>>343398668
>has
Meant to put have, but you get what I mean.
>>343398560
2 is probably the most poorly designed game of the tertrology, as it is extremely easy to brute force most of the game with the spindash. It's very fun and this relatively poor design makes it more accessible than the others, but "strong level design" isn't exactly its best point.
>>343398668
Nevermind the garbage camera and almost nonexistent differences between each team.
>>343398758
No, that would be 1 and cd
>>343398764
That too, I seriously have no idea what they were thinking just making all the teams exactly the same.
>>343398623
cd is terrible. why do people like it?
>>343398420
it looked and sounded great and added a few new mechanics. what more do you want?
the first has the best "feel" though.
>>343398668
>people will unironically defend Heroes and Ow The Edge despite both games being absolute torture to play
>>343397917
>sonic heroes has great graphics and music
I'd give you the music, as i'm sure you can say about near any sonic game but the graphics are dated as fuck and the shiny models they used for everyone look terrible
the VA would only be cheesy if they ever said anything other than exposition with the dialogue which they dont, making all the cutscenes a snorefest
for levels that are so "fast" you move far slower than in SA/SA2, with the exception of setpieces, which if thats what your refering to you should start defending sonic '06, as it's boosted sections are very fast.
>the gimicks are more interesting
while some are very novel (bingo table) they drag on for way to fucking long. you complain about S3&K dragging but sonic heroes stages easily take 10+ mins to complete.
then ofcourse you have the whole "complete the same set of stages 4 times to unlock the
ending" bullshit, the jank grabbing, the awful combat with 100 hit enemy's, the miles and miles of rail sections and a overall slow, dull game
>>343396556
And yet no one mentions the atrocity that was sandopolis act 2
>>343399024
ow the edge had it's merrits, some of the better designed, more open stages nearly feel like SA2
I wont for a second say it's a good game, but I do feel there is some fun to be had with it if you dig through the shit to find it
>>343399024
>The Doom and Central City
CAN'T WAKE UP
>>343396048
I can't, that image is literal fact.
>>343399167
>sandopolis act 2
why is this such a meme? the acts never taken me more than about 5-6 mins and has what I considered an incredible gimick. a dynamicly changing pallet based on light levels!? ghosts that fuck ou up if you aren't quick on your toes? rising sand that you have to climb to escape?
most people just get stuck thinking about the push switch puzzles and while a lot of them are unnecessary, some of the better designed ones are great and tense, as you ran through the maze looking for that slowly shutting door, hearing the clicking as your time runs out
>>343398913
CD has a lot going for it, presentation is stellar, the Time travel mechanic is interesting and sort of works but what kills it is the level design.
Big, superfluous stages, some have a feeling of desolation and others just feel busy. Stages sometimes work against the Time travel gimmick making it frustrating to 100% the game without resorting to restarts or special stages.
CD was a favorite of mine when the Retro Engine version was released, but coming back to it the game just feels flustered.
You shouldn't bash the game entirely for its flaws, but it falls way short of being the best 2D title.
>>343398764
>Nonexistant differences
WHAT
>>343396048
Sonic game were always shit, always. You should play superior genres like rts, rpgs, simulators or gsg
>>343397001
That's the second half of 3, you complete retard.
>>343399172
I don't know what you're saying but SA2 did not have open stages for Sonic and Shadow
>>343399371
>PC gamers
>>343396048
I wont say any of the early sonic games are shit or throw a negative opinion on them, but I will say sonic 3 and knuckles is the quintessential sonic game. I wish I had a pacha edit to post because that shit is just right.
>>343399371
but anon, I played them aswell as sonic?
are you telling me you restrict yourself to a smaller group of video games purely on pride?
>>343398872
"Wwwwaaaaahh where muh gofast" does not translate to poor level design.
To most people CD is less fun than 2 because it's not as immediately accessible. The consequences of failure in 2 usually amount to ineffective damage you can power through, like the lava in Hill Top, while CD tends to slow you down, throw you into traps, or make you start over like in Metallic Madness.
Even 1 is better at this kind of thing. Marble Zone FORCES you to learn the basics of rolling and momentum to succeed, no bullshitting your way through.
I love 2 to pieces, but don't pretend it has better level design just because you liked it more. Your enjoyment of a game is not directly tied to the quality of its level design.
>>343396048
Sonic 3 sucks tho and has the ugliest sprite. 2 and CD are better
>>343397205
BEST THEME COMING THROUGH MY NIGGA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeiuQWs1FEI
>>343399031
The character models themselves look off because there was no natural lighting back then for any console games, but the environments themselves look great and the characters, outside of being shiny, look solid themselves
The story is paper thin in heroes. this was intentional because it was the first multiplat sonic game and continuing all the subplot points from adventure 2 wouldnt make sense. I love hearing tails, amy, and big say their jolly dumb lines. sonics voice is really good and welll what else can i say. i love the lines and voices for nearly everyone.
the only times you go fast in sa are the setpieces too. heroes has more of them and they are very fast. the game also generally moves at a faster pace than the old games which is how this started. sa is its own thing. nothing in sa2 is as fast as the triple loop in rail canyon. sonic 06 despite its boost sections dont even feel that fast either to be honest.
longer stages isnt a problem in 3D because there is simply more variety. in backgrounds, gimmicks, obstacles. when a 2D game drags on, now this isnt just related to sonic but for all, then it just feels like shit because nothing changes. with that said, yes they are long stages, but so are sonic 3 and knuckles levels. blasting around on a pinball table miles above earth while just barely rolling past pits is more fun than pulling pulleys or standing on a top in marble garden.
i like the stages and characters so that doesnt apply to me either bruh. the game is full of content and it all depends how you approach it. if you played mgs5 or tw3 with the goal of 100% in a day you would say everything is the same and sucks ass. enemy fights are done in literal seconds once flight and power characters are leveled up. gold helmet robots are killed with team blast. grinding is a thrill. its an overall exciting game with lots of twists and turns, near death experiences, and a grand adventure. i love it.
>>343397353
Did you take your meds today, Unleashedfag?
>It's a "CD has bad levul desing" episode
When will this meme end?
I don't see people complaining about Metropolis, Sky chase, Wing Fortress or Oil Ocean.
>>343399420
I mean as in they have actual long stretches where you can get up some speed ad rythm, like lava shelter, digital circuit or sky troops. a lot of people remember the purgatory that was the ark stages, which, while kinda neat from a lore perspective, were dull and repetitive as fuck to play (bar that one arc stage that was entirely on the outside of the ark, really reminded me of final rush)
What do the 2d fans think of Sonic Advance?
>>343399701
I can get the Metropolish & to a less extent Oil Ocean but I don't see the issue for Sky Chase or Wing Fortress, explain.
>>343399539
oh yeah bro, all that momentum while standing still on a slow moving block as it reaches the other side of the lava pit. you momentum faggots are fucking retarded as the games barely use that function outside of predictable things like where you need enough speed to get up the higher ledge. big fucking deal. you walk up the top, start a spin dash and roll down until you get to it.
1 and cd are trash games, just deal with it.
>>343398913
CD is a rough diamond
QUICK POST THE BEST S3&K LEVEL OR SONIC 3 REMASTERED WILL NEVER BE RELEASED
>>343397205
MY FUCKING NIGGER! THIS GAME IS GOD TIER
>>343399804
Sky Chase is a 2 minute cutscene
Wing Fortress is slow as fuck and it's full of death pits everywhere
>>343399652
well i'm happy for you senpai, but i think you are entirely wrong and wouldn't be surprised if you were <~21 so grew up with the game, so are biased as fuck
>>343399701
Literally the only level in CD that isn't fun is Wacky Workbench because, surprise, vertical levels suck.
>>343399768
Advance 1 feels more like a Sonic 4 than the actual Sonic 4. Advance 2 is just okay, and Advance 3 is pretty shit honestly.
>>343397353
Heroes is on pc you gay retard
>>343399701
>it's a "he forgot about wacky workbench" episode
i'd love to see how you'll defend this one
>>343399960
>Wing Fortress is slow as fuck
>He ACTUALLY, GENUINELY doesn't know the shortcuts
>>343396048
I agree. But all are fantastic
>>343399931
Pic related imo
>>343400062
Cut Unleashedfag some slack, he has terminal auts.
>>343399983
WW had a good idea behind it.
Sonic games usually reward you for taking the upper path, so this level is literally upside down.
If only they lowered the bumping frequency.
>>343399768
DUDE BOTTOMLESS PITS LMAO
>>343396048
sonic 3 is the most popular old sonic
thus on /v/, you're a retarded faggot jew nigger pleb for liking it
>>343399931
good taste
>>343399980
i actually turned sonics age last december. my first sonic game was the mega collection on gc. they were more like a trojan horse that got me interested in the series but i never cared about them all that much and think theyre highly flawed and actually boring for the most part. if it makes you feel better, i love the advance trilogy and rush duology. otherwise were just gonna have to disagree senpai.
>>343399960
Sky Chase is a autoscroller technically & that doesn't make it have bad level design and Wing Fortress is fine, it's just harder than other stages.
>>343400143
I know about the shortcut that's before the cannons.
But it's not intended and you still have hang on top a death pit, waiting for platforms to come closer.
That's not good level design, especially for a Sonic game.
>>343399857
>oh yeah bro, all that momentum while standing still on a slow moving block as it reaches the other side of the lava pit.
The end of Marble Zone has you build up enough speed and curl into a ball so as to pass a gap into a tight tunnel. There is literally no other way to beat the level. This is there to teach you how to properly use the roll.
If you want to just spout memes and go "YEAH WHATEVER FAAAAG" like a fucking moron, that's fine. I'm just trying to explain that 2 being more fun doesn't translate to better design.
>>343400062
And its a bad port just like other pc ports of the era. A modern port for modern os and working resolutions and all that is what im referring to
>>343400261
>an autoscroller is not bad in a Sonic game
>Wing Fortress is fine but all the platforming levels in Sonic 1 are not
Sonic 2 apologists everyone
>>343400328
but if 2 is more fun, doesn't that make it the better game?
>>343399768
Great and underrated imo, 2 was fun as hell and hard too probably the hardest sonic game imo. The moving bosses in 2 were cool and the high speed mode let you go 2fast. 3 was more of the same but fun too barely remember it though.
I remember sonic advance 1 had one of my favorite sonic levels of all time too, you raced up a rocket as it launched and had to reach a certain point before it broke off its boosters.
If they had super sonic playable outside of the final stage they would be perfect and rival the originals imo.
>>343400328
design doesnt mean shit if its not fun to play. that is the ultimate goal of video games. to be fun. sonic 2 as a whole is a much more fun game than sonic 1. sonic cd is the antithesis of fun and sonic in general. exploring big shitty vertical open world levels to find some gay little projectors. It takes a real contrarian, not a 4chan meme one, to actually think that sonic 1 is more fun than 2
>>343399645
>Sonic 3 sucks tho and has the ugliest sprite
Literally blue arms tier autism
>>343400486
>half of sonic 1's stages are flawed/outright bad
>a couple of sonic 2's staged are questionable
>HA, BTFO SONIC 2 FAGS!
you okay anon?
>>343400619
Sonic 2 is complete fucking shit after Casino Night and you know it.
>>343400486
Actually my favorite is Sonic 3 & Knuckles, I'm mixed between Sonic 2 or CD being the weakest out of the 4.
>>343397205
This
Golden Axe II
Streets of Rage 2
Columns
Space Harrier
TALKIN BOUT MY FAV FIVE
>>343400681
even if that were the case (which it's not) that would mean you yourself are saying sonic 2 has 4 good stages, which is more than sonic 1 does (it has 3)
good job proving yourself wrong kido
>>343400772
>Columns
>In your "fav five"
Is that really your five favorite Genesis games or just the only five that your parents bought you, I don't hate Columns but I fail to see how it could be in anybody's Top 5 for anything, let alone on the Genesis which has scores of fucking awesome games and Puyo-Puyo/Mean Bean Machine which thoroughly outdoes Columns in it's own genre.
The music was dank tho
>>343400902
sonic 1 has 3? the only good level in the game is green hill. what are the other 2?
>>343400504
That's like saying "Avengers is more fun than Thelma and Louise, so it's a better movie."
A lot of people on /v/ seem to not get that it's okay to like "bad" games and dislike "good" games and recognize this. Liking something doesn't define quality, it defines what you personally experienced with it.
1's a more well designed game than 2, but I have more fun with 2 because it's easier to pick up and play. There's nothing wrong with that. You can easily dissect what does and doesn't work while having your own biases.
>>343399931
I just love the palette and music of this stage.I'm probably alone in this
>>343399768
Some of Sonic Advance 2 bosses were hard as balls
>>343400902
The only questionable level in Sonic 1 is Labirynth Zone, and even then it doesn't have shit like death pits.
kys
>>343400973
Not him but are you implying Spring Yard & Star Light Zone are bad at all?
>>343400979
>of
for
>>343401025
those levels with all the blocks, spring bouncers, spikes that follow you down hills killing you, and bomb enemies stuck in walls that cover up entire paths and explode into dozens of balls? wait, youre implying those turds are good levels?
>>343399931
Surprisingly, I'd have to say Hydrocity Zone, it's a fast water level and has wonderful music. Lava Reef & Flying Battery Zone are way up there also, it's kind of hard to hate any of the stages for Sonic 3 & Knuckles for meexcept Sandopolis Zone.
>>343400979
It's not my favorite but you're not alone on that, I love Marble Garden Zone.
>>343400772
>no Ristar
wew lad
>>343401143
Yes, I am implying those are good.
>>343400974
but going forward, would you want more sonic 1 or sonic 2? which would sell better? which would you have more fun playing?
to be honest i sincerely disagree that sonic one has better level design to begin with but, even assuming it does, better in what way? it's harder? more challenging?, what quality of the level design makes it indescribably better than sonic 2, despite you agreeing that sonic 2 is more fun, which I've always perceived as being an accurate measure of how good a game is, as entertainment if the main goal when playing it?
>>343397001
>Mushroom Hill better than Angel fucking Island
>Anything better than Hydrocity
>Hating Marble Gardens
I can't close my mouth. Like what kind of world do you live in. S&K barely even has two separate paths for most levels, Hydrocity has like seven, fuck you.
>>343401143
Not the anon you were responding to, and I really don't like pulling this card because it feels cheap, but it feels more and more like you just need to git gud. The spike balls in Spring Yard are literal non-issues, nobody dies to those, the bouncing around is half of the physics fun of Spring Yard, and the bob-omb type dudes in Star Light are a minor annoyance at best.
![springyard12[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/Pwk33Cx.png "springyard12[1].png")
>>343401302
if
>>343400229
Advance 2 maybe
>>343401397
Except that, I'll give you that only.
>>343397205
>Unironically liking A Million Hitlers: The Boss
I know it's the guy who made Contra but fuck me.
![Sonic%20the%20Hedgehog_May15%2012_29_05(tt1364)[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/Idw5xrH.png "Sonic%20the%20Hedgehog_May15%2012_29_05(tt1364)[1].png")
>>343401397
you
I think we're all forgetting the best game on the Genesis.
>>343399167
Sandpolis act 2 is nowhere near as bad as marble and labyrinth zone
![springyard11[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/mf7HeS6.png "springyard11[1].png")
>>343401456
say (i hate these shitty sections with bouncers. where all you do is just watch and wait till he luckily escapes from being tossed around)
>>343401456
You can complain about obstacles to a certain point but come on.
It's like you don't know the basics of Sonic games and blame the game.
>>343400229
>the second half of SA2 when they go completely apeshit with the bottomless pits
>>343401443
But that's the best part anon.
>He doesn't like bosses
![hqdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/dViOd1Q.jpg "hqdefault[1].jpg")
>>343401541
so
>>343401593
Fuck that fish, takes 10 minutes to kill. Fuck that rival fight, unless you cheese him out he's impossible in the first phase.The rest were p.cool tho, underrated masterpiece all in all
>>343401561
i know that part exactly and more astoundingly, i know your response. you will say roll into a ball. and if you do that, you pick up speed. and if you jump off the slope while rolling down to escape the hazard, you will jump over the wall that stops you. and whats past that wall you jump over thanks to the angle of jumping and your newfound speed?
ANOTHER fucking spiked ball or spikey enemy that you land on. sonic 1 is a fucking mess.
>>343401456
>>343401541
I never had an issue with these parts, even as a kid.
>>343401602
I never understood those Orbinauts, it's weird how they never shot at you. Anyways it's not hard to wait for the bombs to explode & just over it, they don't take long either. The first example I agree on though, waiting that long is boring as hell.
I don't think I've ever seen older mario games analyzed to this level before
>>343401507
God that game was perfect. 1 sun, 2 moon, 3 stars. That puzzle will haunt childhood me for years.
>implying contrarian isn't patrician
>>343401735
>Fuck that fish, takes 10 minutes to kill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVRhrA6uLIE&t=9m30s
>Fuck Axel Gear
Pic related
>>343401824
Nobody's questioning whether those were good or not.
>>343401764
>you will say roll into a ball. and if you do that, you pick up speed.
I was gonna say the exact opposite.
Slow down.
The game might bait you into rolling for DAT SPEED but once you notice the spike hazards you either keep rolling or stop to take in the environment.
Also, always keep one ring.
>>343401956
>Gitting gud in a game with limited credits
>Not just beating it on your first try
Check out this pleb. I beat the final boss on my last credit with one life left, no time to analyze patters like a fucking bookworm YOLO life on the razor's edge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dIDOLbQxwU
>>343401776
they arent game breaking issues, no. they are just things that make the game feel like its moving way slower than it should. there is no need to throw a spiked ball or enemy right behind you in >>343401456. its a mellow level. give the fucking player just 3 seconds of speed without getting interrupted by an obstacle for fucks sake. its sonic. let him go fast uninterrupted for just mere seconds. the game can afford it.
i already said my beef with the bouncers. they just throw you around aimlessly until you get lucky enough to escape their hold and continue on. they are shitty gimmicks that are nothing but engine tests to show off the obvious. yes, we know sonic can be bounced around at different velocities. no, dont trap me in a wall of them and make me wait until i get lucky enough to escape its clutches.
the bombs dont take long but they dont need to scatter shots everywhere upon detonation. they should simply explode, perhaps into a wall. imagine that section i posted where instead of running into raining bombs and a spiked guy is blocking you, you just run past a wall of explosions trailing behind you. it would keep the game moving at a much better pace and minimize wasteful hit after wasteful hit.
>>343401824
>Sonic fanbase
What did you expect.
>>343402029
so the game, which effectively teaches that upon reaching an incline, you should roll up and use it to achieve faster speed, that established rule, is just taken away for that level. its scatterbrained design. its the same as those floating levels in sonic lost world where pressing jump makes you go down. a sudden pulling of the rug underneath of established laws of the game is not good design. stop defending classic sonic because its on the genesis and everyone else does it. realize these games are flawed to fucking hell and back.
>>343401824
Because until Mario World and Yoshi's Island, they didn't exactly have a whole lot of substance or variability.
>>343402174
>sonic fanbase questions everything
>mario fanbase accepts whatever nintendo says
>>343401340
>but going forward, would you want more sonic 1 or sonic 2?
CD or 3K, as they're both superior and, in my opinion, more fun than 2. A few more levels with 1's design philosophy would be nice, though, seeing how Advance is basically Sonic 2-2.
>which would sell better?
2, because widespread appeal. Same as if the next Elder Scrolls was Skyrim 2.
>which would you have more fun playing?
First time through? 1, definitely. Multiple times? Depends on how well the new game works out.
>Better how?
It's a tighter, more focused, more rewarding game that I believe is less fun due to its higher general difficulty and lack of the CD and 2 traits that carried over into 3K and really defined Sonic for most people.
Sonic 1's pacing is excellent, it teaches the player subtly but brilliantly and makes use of all its core mechanics (manual rolling never becomes nearly as important in subsequent games and pretty much died with 3D). Each level feels incredibly distinct in the way it challenges you while later games tend to have zones that bleed into each other and the difficulty curve is well done, giving you the release of tension in Star Light necessary to tackle Scrap Brain.
Basically, it's a very well built game in the style of one-sitting Platformers that were popular at the time. 2 was more of a transitional piece, and because the developers didn't think the implications of the spindash through well enough it's far easier to cheese, meaning that (combined with the huge increase in level count) each stage is more homogenized. 1 is more fulfilling and rewarding and thoughtful in design while 2 is more immediately gratifying and easier to jump into.
It's like how I'd rather replay NSMB Wii than SMB1. Super Mario Bros is a better game in my opinion, but it's frustrating and harder to unwind with. These earlier Platformers are more something to train at and perfect and beat while games like Sonic 2 are ones with far greater replayability.
>>343402158
>they arent game breaking issues
Then don't call the stages turd and say only Green Hill Zone is good. Every stage is gonna have it's obvious issues but it doesn't make the whole stage(s) shit.
>>343396048
Sonic 3 wasn't as good as 2 because it focused more on power ups and platforming than speed. Knuckles was a buggy mess designed by the American team and it showed. It also claimed to be backwards compatible but never worked right
>>343402475
they are turds because green hill is the only level in the game that displays what classic sonic is about. green hill is nearly flawless while every other stage after has major flaws that completely go against the engine of the game itself and the core design and marketing of sonic.
>>343402568
>It also claimed to be backwards compatible but never worked right
With what, the master system?
>>343396048
Blue Spheres is clearly better than all of them
>>343402647
>marketing
Yeah and dark souls was about killing the player?
>>343402343
I never said it's perfect. I enjoy it for what it is and no other franchise offers quite the same take on momentum the way classic Sonic games doI'm up for suggestions.
That said, there's nothing inherently wrong in a level design that throws you off of your learned patterns, the spikes don't kill you if you carry rings which you should do at any given point.
You can argue it's just additional challenge the developers put in the game or just a troll move.
I find many more of these things in Sonic CD which makes it much less appealing in a beginners approach.
Like has been said in this thread, Sonic 1 was sort of a ballpark of ideas they were trying out.
What worked made Sonic 2 and 3 better, more complete titles.
All that said, classic Sonic are my favorite of any Sonic titles because they offer a package newer Sonic games lack.Sonic 1 isn't even my favorite so simmer down, buddy.
>>343402721
dont even start this hurr durr speed shit when i already clearly said that the in game engine itself is used poorly. giving sonic 1 two major flaws; the levels dont compliment the standard autists argument of MUH PHYSICS MUH MOMENTUM IM SO KEEN AND INTELLIGENT nor do they accurately represent the marketing that was applied to sonic, being a fast guy.
>>343402871
>nor do they accurately represent the marketing that was applied to sonic, being a fast guy
I don't think sonic team was in charge of ads anon.
>>343402647
First stages in all classic Sonic games are literally "hold right to win" except for Angel Island Zone.
How is that what Sonic is about?
>>343402647
>marketing of sonic
I fucking hate this meme. I fucking hate it so much. The amount of Nintendo kiddies and latecomers to Sonic who have been ruined by the "gotta go fast" SEGA Of America marketing, and so can never fully enjoy the Genesis games for what they are since they feel like they've been duped.
Funny thing is, in Japan, Sonic was never advertised as "The World's Fastest Hedgehog", he was marketed as "The World's Most Famous Hedgehog".
>>343402568
Classic sonic was about freedom and a kind of stream of consciousness gameplay style, not speed. Sonic 3 is the perfect culmination of that.
>>343402647
>>343402972
>>343403182
What's the name of this hack? I've got some Sonic hating friends who have never played the classics, I might get them to play this on the sly and see how they react
>>343403182
Huh. There are more obstacles than I remember...
>>343403283http://shc.sonicresearch.org/sonic/entry/67
>>343402861
>That said, there's nothing inherently wrong in a level design that throws you off of your learned patterns, the spikes don't kill you if you carry rings which you should do at any given point.
You can argue it's just additional challenge the developers put in the game or just a troll move.
lmao i love this so much. if any other sonic game thats not on the genesis takes this approach, its suddenly a piece of shit 2/10. its pretty obvious that sonic 1 is a scatterbrained game that tested out a bunch of things and scrapped what didnt work and focused on what did in later games. as how any new series should start out. this is where sonic cd comes in. it further expands on what made sonic 1 bad instead of sonic 2, which went down to the basics and gave more free flowing levels and a tool to give sonic bursts of speed at any time, falling more in tune with the marketing and engine capabilities. again, fair game. but this all ties back to the thesis. sonic 1 fucking sucks ass and is straight up unfun to play. you are free to like what you like but dont get all biased now.
>>343402967
right, they were the developers. so maybe they didnt capitalize on the speed that sega marketing promoted. that sucks but marketing can do that. but what they should have done then is make good levels that are flexible with the games physics engine. sonic 1 does not do this in any capacity outside of green hill and bits of star light. well, before youre attacked by offscreen bombs that is...
>>343402972
green hill is not right to win. it is not even the simplest stages, that goes to marble zone for being a straight up generic platforming level. green hill utilizes multiple aspects of what they were gunning for all while being generous with speed and moving briskly. it is a fantastic level and the only truly great one in the game.
>>343397310I prefer the gameplay approach in the second one
Also, dat music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-bdROxLv9A&feature=youtu.be&t=3m5s
>>343402991
now onto (You) my good man.
yes sega marketing is partially to blame. but the designers and creators at sonic team arent guilt free themselves. they and the diehard defenders constantly gloat about their glorious agile physics engine. while a majority of the levels in every game barely use this engines capabilities. you have your mandatory slopes and speed checkpoints, where you need enough to go on a better path (and thats not even always the case, sometimes its slower regular platforming that gets you to safer ground, such as the beginning of aquatic ruin). but on a whole they arent physics based games. they are regular platformers with a cool but underutilized physics engine and level designs that dont fully compliment them. what are we left with?
a game that doesnt use its engine to its max potential, scrapping its ability to maintain high speeds using inclines and hills and balls in favor of just sprinkling sections like these out amongst regular platforming levels.
and a game that nowhere near lives up to its marketing hype of controlling the fastest character alive.
unless you are already a diehard fan of the series, you wont understand the hype that the internet has created, feel left out, and simply join the bandwagoners in saying the games are fucking trash. which is sad because they arent. their concepts are just never used to their full extent outside of rare cases like advance 2, rush, and unleashed.
>>343403432
>why didn't the developers completely revamp their 90% done game because blast processing man on the other side of the world had another brilliant idea
>>343403934
refer to the post above
>Oldfag
Sonic The Hedgehog, can defeat it and collect all the emeralds by muscle memory
>Normie
Sonic The Hedgehog 2, this was most likely your first real Sonic experience however old you are
>Plebeian
Look mommy, slapping two games together makes for more of a game, and more is always better, right mommy?
>Patrician
Sonic CD, the original Sonic The Hedgehog too bland and easy for you, try this on for size and complexity!
>>343404157
>Look mommy, slapping two games together makes for more of a game, and more is always better, right mommy?
But they were literally designed as one game. Say what you like about it being bullshit that you have to buy two cartridges - that point, I won't disagree with - but Sonic 3 & Knuckles is not 'slapping two games together' as far as actual design is concerned. And in Genesis Sonic's case, I'd argue that more IS better.
>Dragon Ball: Curse Of The Blood Rubies
>Dragon Ball: Sleeping Princess in Devil's Castle
>Dragon Ball: Mystical Adventure
Best trilogy coming through, all other Dragon Ball need not apply
>>343404796
Wrong thread kek, my bad Sonic bros
CD = 3&K > 1 > 2
Prove me wrong.
>>343404893
ah yes, what would the thread be without the local contrarian going against everyone in the thread.
>>343400972
It is, the music was dank and i would play it with my neighbor after school.
It's fav five because nostalgia feels more than objectively great game. Also my first puzzle game, a genre i love to this day.
And did i need to specify Genesis fav five or was that obvious?
>>343404053
A game doesn't have to be the equivalent of quake defrag to be making good use of it's movement system. Even the lowest most basic level implementation of sonic's physics add a "heft" to the game. Here's how I think of it. Mario is about beating an obstacle, Sonic is about experiencing an obstacle.
Say there's a column with a monitor on the opposite side. It's just high enough for sonic to jump on top of, but not over in most cases. Most of the time people will come across this column, jump on top then jump down to the monitor. On the other hand if you jump while you've still got momentum you can clear the column in one jump, but miss the monitor. But if you jump at just the right time, and slow down pre jump at just the right time. You can clear the column and get the monitor all in one jump. That's what the physics add to the game, even in a slow game like sonic 1. The column itself was a trivial obstacle. But the way the physics allow you to approach it, give it so many more possibilities than a simpler system would allow for.
THAT is sonic.
>>343401262
I've only played this on emulators. Wasn't aware of it when i was a kid. It's really good though.
I just can't say a game that i played 20 years after it came out is a "favorite."
>>343404983
Hey, fuck you buddy. Sonic CD is great. You wouldn't know because you were too poor to afford a Sega CD.
>>343404983
without them we might as well call this place reddit or neogaf
>>343397310
Nigga SNES Sparkster is legit as hell.
>>343405169
I've tried to suffer through it thrice, aside from cool bosses the level design is an absolute clusterfuck. Like holy hell, dead ends in MY sonic? Fuck off.
>>343396135
Too many shitty zones, not enough good ones.
Sonic 1 is better than a lot of people give it credit for though.
>>343397917
>Sonicfag
Autist
>Xbox as a child
Underage
>I like sonic heroes
Retarded
>Not knowing the difference between effected and affected
Brain-dead
>>343405334
Sorry you can't hold right to win.
>>343405039
A little bit bloated but otherwise this.
>>343405508
Sorry you can't die because there's like one enemy every 50 yards.
>>343400979
>I'm probably alone in this
I'm surprised more people don't like Marble Garden. There's literally nothing wrong with it, instead of maybe those statues on the wall you have to defeat
>>343405039
The meme is true, sonicfags are truly autistic as fuck.
>>343405039
if thats where you get your value from sonic then thats pretty cool. i know exactly what youre talking about, you can find several of these in the first level of any sonic game. but its just not me, experiencing an obstacle. i dont get any excitement or cool feeling from carefully jumping on a box when another jump or roll to break it solves the problem. sonic cd capitalizes on this. sonic 2 cuts away at slow prodding platformer for the most part and makes it more of that experience that you described. sonic 3 and knuckles deviates from sonics 2 speedier approach and is more aligned with cd. more playing bonus stages and looking for powerups and other dumb shit rather than going fast or using the given physics engine.
there are multiple definitions and no clear cut answer on what sonic is, since the series has gone through tons of different paths and evolutions. for me, personally. they werent ever physics based platformers. they were platformers with bits of physics fuckery thrown in. but if one day they can get it right that would be awesome. and failing that, as long as theyre fast as fuck memorable rollercoasters, im satisfied with sonic and couldnt expect any more. and we all know sonic team is never going to approach and build a physics engine that is compatible with modern systems and the hedgehog engine. so they better be crafting some damn exciting setpieces and rollercoasters to blaze through, otherwise whats the point of caring for sonic? me to mario clones like colors and lost world, same speed and all? nothing but rehashes from the 90s like generations and sonic 4? franchise suicide and misdirection with 06 and boom? nah. just play it safe and make fun levels to burn through and the game will be fun.
>>343402002
wew
>>343405676
>I have slow reaction time
Don't blame the game anon.
>>343405727
I think the spinning top gimmick sort of drags the tempo down, but the zone has a nice mix of speed and exploration that I enjoy.
Also that end level transition. So peaceful.
>>343405775
Why because I explained why I like something?
>>343405775
>it's autistic to know what's good about a game you like
>/v/ would prefer you to say it's "just fun" or """"""""comfy"""""""" like 99% of Nintendrones and animeposters do
wew lad
>>343406009
this is correct
>>343406009
THIS
Mario moves like a acrobat and Delfino Plaza is fucking beautiful.
>>343406009
I enjoy 64 and Sunshine mostly equally.
Galaxy can go fuck itself.
>>343397205
Hell yeah! Fuck Sonic, Rocket Knight did all that shit better. Better speed, better bosses, better spin attack.
Fucking hell I can't believe that shitty hedgefuck lived on and Sparkster was buried in an unmarked grave.
>>343406105
I haven't played any of these, but isn't he more of an acrobat in 64? That one always looked the most fun to me.
>>343406009
>mario 64 is contrarian
in literally what world is this true
>>343406212
Nope.
Give it a try anon. You're really missing out.
>>343406009
this sounds about right
>>343406214
In the world where Sunshine is considered superior, what is it you don't understand?
>>343396048
swap 2 and 3 and you have it.
3's got too many levels, and said levels tend to drag on way too long.
>>343406009
>>343406072
Sunshine is contrarian and 64 is patrician, plebs
>>343396048
Except sonic 3's stronger level design encouraged exploration with power ups. There are several routes in the casino and deep forest level that straight punish you with death without the water shield.
3 is still great but sonic 2 is better by a stretch
>>343405169
>Sonic CD is great
Not with that level design it isn't
>>343406349
I'm not even going to debate which one I prefer but the "mainstream" opinion is that Mario 64 is a fucking God that stands tall above all of gaming, like the untouchable OOT.
Not that I buy into that shit, but liking Mario 64 is most certainly not "contrarian", unless you're on /v/ of course where everyone is a contrarian so the only way to be contrarian is to act normie as fuck.
>>343406429
come on bro, just use your momentum and rolling and youll literally beat the level in 20 seconds! get good bro! just hold down on the dpad, its that easy!
>>343406009
What about Galaxy 2and 3D World?
>>343406464
This
>>343405902
>>343405727
The crushing section was scarier than the drowning music to me as a kid
>>343406508
Short explanation - Liking any Mario isn't contrarian because it's the most popular fucking franchise of all time.
And if we HAD to give that status to something it's abso-fucking-lutely going to be Sunshine, with its unskippable cutscenes, horrendous voice acting, every level being a beach, weird-ass spraying minigames and worst Bowser in a franchise where Sticker Star exists.
>>343406523
I bet you also think that Knuckles Chaotix is a good game, don't you?
>>343406753
Yeah it is. Sorry you can't git gud at it.
>>343406508
I don't disagree with you, but you asked "what world" and I tell you; people will have this opinion, and here we are.
You even answered it yourself.
>unless you're on /v/ of course where everyone is a contrarian
>pleb
Any 3D Sonic game
>contrarian
Sonic CD
>patrician
Sonic 2 or 3 Complete.
>the classic sonic shitposter ruins another thread
>>343406725
>unskippable cutscenes
Yeah, all two of them.
>every level being a beach
>I've never played Sunshine
>weird-ass spraying minigames
>I've never played Sunshine
>worst Bowser in a franchise where Sticker Star exists
His voice acting was the only one that was awful. But yeah really sucks.
>>343401507
That game was fucking amazing, excellent taste pal
>>343406725
>every level being a beach
>>343396048
pretty much that.
I would say that the bottom line contrarian would be Sonic 3D Blast, and the top line patrician would be Sonic 1
>>343407074
Are you the Sonic CD fag? You seem to be replying with a lot of non-arguments, what's up with that?
I've beaten Sunshine, the only good parts were the fludd-less levels, and that's being generous because you go through a lot of tedious horseshit to get to those.
>>343407137
Amusement park by a beach, beach town, another beach town, a room of lava. What the fuck happened to skyworld? Ice stages? ANYTHING UNIQUE
>>343397353
How can someone be this wrong?
>>343407068
you mean unleashedfag? I don't think he ruined the thread, he's probably the only thing that keeps these threads alive nowadays in this era of no games and no news. Him shitposting about how overrated the classics are and how great Heroes/Unleashed are is pretty much the only talking point left
>>343406564
>spindashing to get past a crusher
>make it
>there's a second crusher
>>343398048
Nah dude,
>>343397987
has played it
take off the fucking nostalgia goggles, Sonic heroes is mediocre as fuck, unless you enjoy playing the same level 4 times with slight variations, I played it on gamecube too chum, 100%, still a bad game.
Can we agree that all Classic Sonic games have at least one objectively shit stage?
>Sonic 1
Labyrinth Zone
>Sonic 2
Metropolis Zone
>Sonic 3&K
Marble Garden
>Sonic CD
Wacky Workbench
>>343406062
>Momentum allows me to jump differently based on how fast I go.
>No other game does that
Aside from like very platformer ever...
>>343407262
What do you want me to say? There are only 2 cut scenes in Sunshine. If you really say that all levels are beaches then I really doubt you've even played Sunshine and if I recall there are no spraying minigames.
>>343406212
Yes and no, 64 had a bigger variety of moves you could do (long jump, backflip, Z + A combo) but the controls feel tighter and more responsive in sunshine. Both games are a lot of fun and worth playing.
>>343407531
Clearly not since I don't think any of those are shit stages.
Sonic 1 and CD are actual games for real gamers.
Sonic 2 is for the kiddies.
Sonic 3 & K is for the autistic crowd (ie: Sonic fans)
>>343407531
Metropolis is the highlight of the game though, and Marble is top tier.
>Sonic 2
Wing Fortress Zone
>Sonic 3&K
Carnival Night Zone
>>343407531
>Sonic 3&K
>Marble Garden
You fucked up big time buddy boy.
Why didn't you go with Sandopolis? Act 1 was good but the sub-boss and act 2 were shit.
>>343407531
metropolis zone is awesome though.
oil ocean and wing fortress are shit though.
>>343407785
I think Sandopolis gets too much flak, as a kid the ghosts gave the whole second zone so much tension, in a good way.
I don't understand why it's so disliked, but I guess if you HAD to pick one...
>>343407549
90% of platformers have a pretty linear, basic definition of momentum compared to Sonic. Doing a running jump in Mario and one in Sonic are absolutely league apart in terms of how long the momentum carries, how the momentum can be used, how quickly you can negate your own momentum and so on. But, I'm not the anon you originally replied to in >>343405039 so I don't really care enough to debate it further.
As a fun side note, Smash Bros Brawl and Smash 4 actually DON'T carry momentum from a run to a jump, even in the most rudimentary sense. One of the many, many reasons why they pale in comparison to Melee and Project M.
>>343407531
>Sonic 1
Labyrinth Zone
>Sonic 2
Wing fortress zone
>Sonic 3&K
Sandopolis zone
>Sonic CD
Wacky Workbench
FTFY
>>343406464
this desu
Sunshine is a chore to play and has shitty pacing.
In 64 from the very get go you can just go and the game never tells you to stop and focus on anything else.
As soon as you enter the castle area in which you would have to unlock a new cap you can do so as soon
as you arrive there, the exception being the wingcap but the game throws so many possible stars
that don't need any cap abilities at you that getting those 12 stars can be done in a very short time
which encourages the player to play the game in his own pace.
Mario 64 also allowed you to get any star you want in most stages, as long as the level layout wouldn't have
to be changed in order to make it possible to reach them, which rarely happens in the game.
This combined with the fact that as long as you know where stars are located and how to deal with obstacles
along the way, you can get stars so incredibly fast that the game has this constant and frequent feeling of
accomplishment.
It's true that Sunshine has the best controls in the series and you could go pretty fast in the game
but apart from the very first part of the first level and secret stages the level design almost never encourages
you to actually make use of them for the sake of raising the skill ceiling in exchange to go faster.
Mario 64 has no loading times but you know what it also doesn't have?
Forced cutscenes that last for an eternity and the very few instances where dialogue pops up on the screen
you can press the B button like 3 times and you're done with it.
I will defend Sunshine for getting the camera and a bunch of other things right that Mario 64 didn't,
however that doesn't change that Sunshine threw many things that Mario 64 did right out the window.
Banjo-Kazooie actually got this right and it's still the reason why calling M64 and B-K the same kind of "collect-a-thon"
as DK64 and Tooie is absolutely retarded to me.
Sunshine is a collect-a-thon because it sacrifices pacing for the sake of collecting
Every level in Sonic 3&K is hold right to win except for one area in Carnival Night zone and the switch trap in Sandopolis. By no coincidence, those are the two stages most hated by autistic Sonicfags.
secretly patricianRistar____
>>343407758
Marble garden is fucking terrible. Tbh most s3&k levels are terrible
>>343407758
>>343407819
>>343407785
I thought it was a general consensus that the enemy/hazard placement in Metropolis and Marble Garden were shit.
Honestly, I can eat up Sandopolis just fine, even if Act 2 is boring, but Marble Garden always pisses me off when I'm running and I get hit by a huge fucking spike ball out of nowhere.
>>343400507
>If they had super sonic playable outside of the final stage they would be perfect and rival the originals imo
Amen my brother. I eagerly await the day sonic modders crack into the GBA to make this jappen
>>343408034
Best Sonic game
>>343408037
>>343408037
B-b-but muh epic story
>>343396048
As far as genesis saga goes, swap pleb and contrarian and it's good
>>343408023
>Every level in Sonic 3&K is hold right to win
>hold right to win
t. Guy who has never played a Sonic game
>>343408149
I have never heard a single person praise S3K for it's story. That's not why people like the game, I don't know where you got that from
>>343396048
Liking Sonic games is plebian
>>343407531
>Sonic 1
Labyrinth
>Sonic 2
Oil Ocean
>Sonic 3
Carnival Night
>Sonic & Knuckles
Sandopolis
>>343408039
>I get hit by a huge fucking spike ball out of nowhere
Are you talking about the spike ball on the chain? You actually got hit by that?
>>343407531
Metropolis is kinda like the classic series' Eggmanland
bullshit, long, sometimes legitimately hard, but all excusable because it's the final level
That said, oil ocean is worse
>>343408023
Nigger you can't even get through either acts of Angel Island if you hold right the whole time.
I think every game on the genesis got better as it went on, and none of them are really bad. I do really enjoy 2 and think it would be on par with 3, but the problem with that game is Super Sonic. Unlike 3 and S&K, those levels are not designed with Super Sonic in mind, so if you do happen to get all the Emeralds and transform, it's not really that much of a benefit and sometimes it's an actual hinderance to the gameplay.
It's funny. So many Sonic fans say that on their own, Sonic 3 and S&K are mediocre games. But somehow put together they become the best Sonic game ever!
I guess that lock-on technology comes with blinders to help you forget about how dull and repetitious the level design is and how little variety there is in the gameplay.
>>343408654
Never seen that being said, can't say I agree either.
>>343408278
No, liking Call of Duty or GTA games is plebian.
Liking Sonic games is for babies.
>>343408402
How is it possible to not get hit by that when you don't know it's coming? The spike ball is big and it also moves from side to side at the same time you're running.
>>343408837
Wow you're a fucking retard.
>>343408654
Sonic fans aren't very smart. Most non-Sonic fans who have a casual interest in the series agree that the first two are much better than 3.
>>343408654
Who even says this.
>>343408837
>liking Sonic games is for babbies
>yet somehow adults have a hard time playing those games properly
>>343409021
Prove me wrong.
>>343408837
>Liking Sonic games is for babies.
Babies, and adults with the intelligence of a baby.
>>343408654
>So many Sonic fans say that on their own, Sonic 3 and S&K are mediocre games
Sure m8
>>343396048
true contrarian would be sonic 1 on the master system honestly.
