Weapon degradation is a horrible mechanic that absolutely needs to die.
Prove me wrong. Protip: You can't.
I don't mind it.
Then again I'm not a fucking whiner.
Weapon degradation was fine in SS2, it served its purpose as a check how strong Standard was.
>>343375325
You've clearly never experienced it in vanilla System Shock 2 then.
>>343375391
Wrench never breaks. Wrench is best.
/v/ told me system shock 1 controls like a bitch, but it's actually loads of fun, and mouselook + fullscreen mode makes it hardly more hard to control than modern games of the same kind.
but fuck level 3 and the invisible mutants, what weapon should I use against them? standard pistol rounds do jack shit, and I can barely see them normally, let alone in the dark ass areas. I already started the level with low health, fuck
>>343375598
Use the sparq beam. Just pewpew everything
Weapon degradation is okay when it feels like it's your fault when your weapon breaks. Like you should've fixed it when you had a chance type shit.
It's garbage when it's entirely not your fault and actively punishes you for things out of your control. Like Dark Souls 2 and the FPS-weapon breaking bug.
>>343375391
My favorite build is just an energy/psi hybrid. Rapier never breaks, pyrokinesis never breaks, EMP rifle does break but there are enough around the place that you can just switch to a new one when they do, and laser pistols are ridiculously durable if you stick to using overcharge shots. Just carry two pistols and swap between them and you should have enough ammo.
It's actually a pretty fun build. Not great, but fun.
>>343375598
Laser Rapier, takes out Invisible Mutants in two swings. I'm convinced the Invisible Mutants are the result of some weird oversight and the Laser Rapier was added to counter them.
>>343375710
cool, i've got loads of battery packs anyway, not to mention there's an energy station really close by
>>343376143
i haven't got that yet
>>343376340
It's on the same level, after climbing some stairs on a corpse. Get it asap, it's "the" weapon of that game, even referenced in SS2
>>343375234
Nah.
> Remake is being done in unity
D R O P P E D
R
O
P
P
E
D
But anon, System Shock 2 in general had complete shit balance.
>>343375234
Git gud
Casual detected
>>343375234
make your own game faggot
>>343375234
Like procedural generation there is absolutely nothing wrong with it, its just most games do it poorly
>>343375735
I agree with this statement
>>343375735
>Dark Souls 2 and the FPS-weapon breaking bug.
That wasnt a bug, it was a design choice
Souls uses frames for weapon degradation. Its poor game design, not unintended issues.
>>343379663
Semantics
>>343379663
What on earth makes you think it was not a bug? They deliberately wanted to piss off people playing on PC or something?
It's a bug, they fixed it when the consoles got 60fps.
>get maintenance to level 4
>about to face shodan and all weapons are degradation levels below 5 or so
>have 10 maintenance tools left
>maintain all weapons to superb
>>343375234
Points for starting thread with with bait, now i have some time to shill reboot kickstarter
Everyone please spend all your money on this, lets ruin SS1 for oldfags together!
>>343379834
No its not.
A bug is something unintended that needs to be fixed. They knew having weapon durability and frame rate tied together would lead to people breaking weapons faster on higher framerates. Bugs can be forgiven because sometimes you fuck up and sometimes it leads to issues that need to be fixed. Not once in its life did From give a fuck about the consequences of frame rate tied durability.
>>343379859
Because they did it four fucking times you moron. They chose to have durability and frames tied and used the consequences, it wasnt something they didnt plan they just didnt give a fuck.
>>343380049
Maint 3 is already more than enough, but casul fags will never know because they would just sit and cry over broken weapons and blame the game
>gun in perfect condition
>shot 40 bullets
>weapon break
vidya logic is fucking autistic
>all these people who don't know about the bugged guns that never jam
>>343379834
>one is an accident
>one is a choice
Its not semantics
>>343376143
Laser Rapier literally wins you game in SS 1
>>343380212
I think I needed 4 to maintain a heavy weapon. The game is so easy though, I'm baffled reading comments online on these old ass forums where people had trouble playing it on Easy. I'd imagine Nightmare mode is hell though.
>>343380104
>Not once in its life did From give a fuck about the consequences of frame rate tied durability.
You mean apart from the time they fixed it?
You're an idiot. It was unintended behavior but they did not see the consequences of it as being severe enough to spend the time and money to fix it until they re-released the game. It's a bug.
You can change the code files if you never want your gun to jam.
Don't be a faggot though OP, play the game the way it was intendedOP will always be a fag though
I think it's fine if as long as there are ways to break other peoples equipment
>>343380378
Not much, you just get less loot, not sure about enemy toughness. What was tough for me is secmod, that shit is tense af
>can't stunlock hybrids with melee strike
>cameras are silent
>breaking a camera dispatches a group of hybrids to investigate the spot
fug
>>343375234
I like that it gives you a reason to manage your inventory more.
>>343380761
Holy shit. That really is nightmare mode.I feel bad I savescummed the fuck out of this game, but sometimes I had to exit the game and didn't want to start it all over again. If I were to ever play it again I wouldn't do that.
>>343380781
It also makes dupe guns useful
>use pistol until it breaks
>just trash it and use another one
Although if you invest nanites in this gun's upgrades it's not very good idea, but still an option non the less.
>>343381073
A borderlands gimmick run sounds interesting given how common pistol and shotgun drops are.
>>343381970
I was carrying two energy pistols my first playthrough for dat combined ammo pool
System Shock > Deus Ex > shit > System Shock 2
>>343383159
Deus Ex = System Shock 2 > System Shock
>>343383314
>he couldn't git gud with the non-mouselook controls
laughing_whores.gif
>>343383159
Rude.
>>343383159
D-D-DELETE THIS INSECT!!
>>343383529
So you one of those weirdos who like crippled controls, try playing with dance pad while you're at it
>>343383810
>Playing with dancepad while listening to that OST.
>>343383810
Don't worry babby, maybe you'll learn how great System Shock's design is when the remake is finished and you can play the game pampered to suit your level of skills.
>>343380219
it's a game, if you had to put 10,000 rounds through a weapon before it started to break down then you might as well not include weapon degradation at all
SS2 had weapon degradation?
I played it a few months ago and didn't notice. What the fuck
>>343384020
I finished it with mouselook, you can shove your tractor controls down your urethra
>>343384220
Yes, your weapon jams after so long of using it.
Post god tier cyberpunk music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfjIpc_Lbjk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qBe3qo2uuA
>>343375234
mad cuz bad
>>343375234
OP can't even maintain his own weapons
>Weapons degrade super quick
>Sacrifice items to restore health
>Sacrifice health to restore durability
>>343375234
>weapons are repeated all over the place
>there are many tools to repair them, you can even get them cheaper by hacking vendor machines
>putting points in Modify make the weapons stronger and therefore you don't need many bullets to kill enemies
>the game gives you so many points to put on skills that you'll have spare for repair
There you go, stop complaining.
>>343375531
>>343375234
pretty much
my first and all of my playthroughs are now wrench only
I don't even know why I did it the first time, it just seemed like fun, and it's really quite an experience
>>343375234
Take a look a this casual.
You can cheat if you feel bad, but stop crying about it fagget.
GET GUD GAINS.
ss2 is a meme game anyway
No one has done weapon degradation right as far as I know.
If weapons become unusable after some time then let me pick up other weapons from dead enemies or whatnot and let it be nearly as effective. Then I won't hug that stupid tweaked out machine gun that I need to keep above 80% repaired to even stand a chance against bullet sponge enemies or what have you. Just let me shoot an enemy, whack him to death, pick up that gun and shoot a 2nd enemy just as easily and so on.
>>343388951
Wrench is godly in first Bioshock too
not related:
>see wrench in Infinite cut scene
>get excited
>it's only there so Elizabeth could smack you in the head with it
i was mad as fuck
>>343375234
Poorly designed weapon degradation is a horrible mechanic that absolutely needs to die.
There, fixed it for you.
>>343380060
does it still have variable leaning
big part of ss1s game play was being cautious and peering out behind every corner
>>343391045
You mean popping the shield and barrelling through the game mowing down motherfuckers.
>>343391231
crank up ur diff
>>343375234
>posts the game that handles it the best.
what other way would you gimp the player to keep them on their toes besides awful controls/camera angles? that shit needs to stop in horror games.
>>343391045
It has SS2 <q e> leaning
Reposting the quality gameplay of a gaming testing website
>>343391045
I don't think I ever leaned except by accident. Can't remember what the keys even were, if there were any. Just walking sideways worked as well
>>343380219
Maybe the space station had weapons designed to break down, in case someone goes on a shooting spree
>>343391309
Always at max, babycakes. In a game where dying is an effective way to regain health, difficulty ain't an issue.
>>343375735
I think STALKER did weapon degradation ok; it was quite a long time before the gun outright broke, but the worse it's condition was, the more likely it was to jam up
so it was possible to run around for hours on end with a 25% condition gun, but if it jammed in a fight it was your fault for not fixing it
unlike DS2, where if your weapon is anything less than 100%, it will be broken within 10 minutes
>>343391603
In ss1?
Leaning is z and c, and standing up, crouching and ducking are rfv
>>343380060
I mean, i would 100% pay for the box alone in that kickstarter. The demo was pretty cool too. Maybe a bit floaty character movement.
played ss2 a few months ago
never had a problem with this mechanic
What is even the point of the RPG mechanics in SS2, SS1 is fine without them
>>343391934
"Floaty movement" is momentum, signature feature of systemshock games
>>343392029
More character progression, I guess.
Stat-based character progression is my least favourite kind.
>>343392091
SS1 movement felt totally different from 2. The Thief games have the same momentum as System Shock 2 since it's the same engine
>>343391883
lean is q w e
look up/down/center is r f v
stand/crouch/low crouch is t g b
>>343392263
what other kind is there?
It's completely fine.
>>343392343
Visual, mechanics-gain I can't think of a less tortured way to articulate gaining new abilities, that sorta stuff.
Like the poster said, not requiring a DEX of 5 and a STR of 3 to wield an assault rifle affected System Shock 1 very, very little.
>>343375234
Weapon degradation is like the hurt stance or battle damage in the Resident Evil series, it shows you are a fucking badass who will survive whatever shit is thrown their way. Whatever got you, you either got the other guy worse or it was way out of your league and you still managed to survive an encounter which, by all accounts, should have killed you thrice over.
As such, it's not so much a gameplay feature but a design or narrative choice. If it doesn't make sense(like, weapons are made of fucking paper and last less than you on a casual hook up), then yes it should be eliminated.
>>343375234
Is there anyone who likes weapon degradation?
90% of the time it is unrealistic and adds literally nothing to the game.
Here's how I would do it:
>weapon degrades based on complexity; the more complex it is, the faster it degrades
>a rifle would degrade a lot faster than a sword
>you can buy maintenance kits for different weapon types
>regular maintenance renders degredation almost null, making a weapon last for years
>the more complex the weapon, the more maintenance is needed
>you need to clean a rifle after almost every battle, but a sword can go a while without it
>maintenance kits have limited uses, so you need to buy more
>>343375234
>using non-melee weapons
wew lad. Also maybe you should put points into Maintenance. Pleb.
Spoilers: on the first 4 levels, the are several 2-4 condition pistols which you can carry and about four 10 condition pistols which will last for level 5. You don't need maintenance before that. Just carry a few with you.
Durability systems are awful as fuck and only serve as redundant "remember to use consumable X or visit person Y after Z minutes of fighting to keep it up".
The only place where they have a purpose is in MMOs as money sinks.
>>343378236
At least it is not Unreal 3.
>>343392029
Since SS2 was a collaboration between LGS and Irrational, I'm inclined to say the idea to include RPG mechanics came from the latter, since SS1 was a reaction to the awkward clash between traditional RPG mechanics and LGS's simulation style of design in UU1.
>>343391510
This was hilarious. For a moment I thought they were playing with controller.
>>343380060
> Ruin
The only problem I have so far with the remake is the stupid ass "GOT A WEAPON, GOTTA LOOK AT IT" shit and the really awful melee timing. Everything else feels great.
>>343392712
Sounds tedious.
>>343380060
There's some decisions I disagree with, but basically every graphical change is amazing.
I even like the fingerless gloves they gave to our old ponytail-wearing, apartment-dwelling greaseball Hacker. They're as in character as it gets.
Have they mentioned how they'll do the augs in the remake since the hud is totally different. Also I didn't see a minimap in the demo but I guess they just haven't finished them yet
>>343393662
Hopefully hotkey'd.
ESSENTIAL SS VIEWING:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LDiTZ89j-Q
>>343380060
The only thing that seriously concerns me so far is the stretch goal for RPG elements since a. System Shock wasn't supposed to have those and b. If it's a stretch goal it clearly isn't central to their own vision for the reimagining, so it'll be tacked on shit.
>>343393662
hotkeys or just not have them at all
I doubt they would put in the rocket powered rollerskates or sensearound
>>343393914
Even Deus Ex had a speed boost, and System Shock 2
>>343391510
How is it even possible.
They play worse than me drunk and half asleep.
>>343393914
Being unable to bumblefuck around with the skates and laser rapier destroying entire rooms is heresy.
Sensearound can fuck off, though, who cares about that.
>>343393789
Yeah, if they include RPG elements I hope they also include a mode in where you can play the game without them or the vending machines.
>>343391510
Wow, what the fuck. Not as bad as the new Doom, but still.
>>343393789
neato!!
let me share something cool too:
gambit.mit.edu/updates/audio/looking_glass_studios_podcast/
>>343394198
A thought I had was that they could bring psi from SS2 into this game, and make that the only thing that has to do with leveling. Maybe they could make it part of hacking too. I just don't want it to turn into SS2 where you can't do basic shit until you have enough points.
>>343391510
>not using the psi power to nullify degradation
All I did was make myself good at using energy weapons and used psi powers to keep my trusty energy pistol from degrading or running out of juice. I also always had more than enough psi energy and items for more anyway.
>>343375234
Shit like in the witcher 3 pisses me off.
People that complain about weapon degradation are the reason why it needs to continue being a thing.
>>343375735
Just buy more repair powders you casual faggot.
>>343394419
I might as well post it all
>Last Day at Looking Glass (video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7tJpuluqQY
>Last Day at Looking Glass (photos)
http://www.digital-eel.com/mc/may252000.htm
>Looking Glass Studios - behind the scenes (partially in German)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaugYown6GA
>Making of Thief 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTwrEfES5Q4
>Looking Glass Studios Interview Podcast series
http://gambit.mit.edu/updates/audio/looking_glass_studios_podcast/
>Thief website
http://web.archive.org/web/19980526143212/http://www.lglass.com/p_info/dark/index.html
>Deep Cover (unfinished Cold War stealth game) screenshots
https://www.unseen64.net/tag/looking-glass-studios/
http://95.31.27.16/projects/deep_cover/
>Interview with Josh Randall/Robotkid (System Shock 2, Thief) about music and sound design
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrIhMlPbhqk
>Josh Randall soundcloud
https://soundcloud.com/robotkid
>Developers play System Shock 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LDiTZ89j-Q
>PC classic commentary: Ultima Underworld with Paul Neurath
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sh_DY28wl4
>videos from Warren Spector's old collection
http://av.cah.utexas.edu/index.php?title=Category:Warren_Spector_Papers
>obscure misc videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheLookingGlassVault
>>343393914
Player wouldn't be able to performnice jump to impress Shodan, so I'm 100% confident rollerskates are in
>>343395175
The only psi I used was the healing one, it was much more effective than the health packs
>>343392712
Funny that swords are more fragile than guns though. Neglect to clean blood off the blade and it can rust shut inside a scabbard.
>>343395935
That section becomes incredibly comical when I think of it like that, the guy straps rollerskates to his feet and scoots down a slope
>>343397128
thanks for the pic, it's cute
http://pastebin.com/wvMz1Wyg fuck it here
>>343397128
i imagine he would do a backflip mid jump for maximum rad
>>343397407
Actually I realised he would probably be giving the camera the finger
In games centred around survival in a perpetual open world weapon degradation serves as a great way to prevent a player from standing by necessitating either careful resource management or promoting a more nomadic style of play
Next
>>343391510
>retards not realizing they were showing gameplay/graphics and killing the thing right off the bat would have been boring
>>343378236
>le unity is bad meme
wrong picture btw, should have been that homer one
Is there a way to use the Mac music for System Shock Enhanced, it sounds pretty nice. Actually the remake should just use these tracks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17FAFpmNIWA
>>343398197
the music is one of the aspects im most concern about the remake.
System Shock just isn't the same without the techno music and the switch from that to an orchestral horror themed soundtrack doesn't fit at all
>>343398761
On top of that they're blowing their money on getting a real orchestra to do the sounds
>>343398197
Actually here's someone playing with the Mac music but it's not the mac version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEeRV3BXNYY
Can you just replace the tracks and it'll work fine
Are the reform stations in System Shock 1 basically infinite free respawns? Also what does reducing the security rating in each floor do?
>>343399464
Yes and as far as I could tell it just opened some doors and such.
>>343399464
Reducing it makes possible to unlock some doors and flip switches to do stuff. Also MAYBE reduces respawn rate but I can't remember that for sure.
>>343391510
where is this from
>>343401486
Polygon playing the remake demo
>>343391510
>want to do some sweet webms
>shadowplay ignores the demo
fug
>>343402228
It's fullscreen windowed, like most Unity games by default. Enable desktop capture, and if it still doesn't work, alt-tab, start recording, then return to the game.
>>343375391
>>343375234
I LOVE that mechanic, because it keeps ADHD Xbox kids like you from playing games like SS2 and STALKER like a Cowadooteh shooter.
Also, Wrench, laser-rapier and Shard > guns.
>>343403784
Do you mind if I play System Shock 1 as a cawadooty shooter
>>343404137
good luck trying.
>>343403784
You know you swap out weapons from the floor all time in Cawabunga, right? Only difference here is occasionally you tape them together.
>>343388510
Loved that game
>>343375391
I haut completed SS2 for the first time and had no issue with it.
You did put points in to maintenance didn't you? Every repair tool repairs more, and you find loads anyway.
What's the exact issue?
>>343404256
Well I mean it doesn't have weapon degradation so it must play like Cod right. It even has an energy shield and super sprint
>>343375234
But it DID die. What modern FPS has weapon degradation?
Far Cry 2's weapon degrading animations were rad
>>343404613
>>343404380
way to move goal posts for your ironical statement's purpose there, mate.
the only problem for me in system shock 2 was that i kept getting lost, and ended up running out of bullets because of the infinite respawns. I loved how the level design was a labyrinth but even with the map I still managed to get lost when trying to go to new places
and those last levels, yeah fuck that, I ended up using console to spawn ammo, there is in no way enough ammo to kill all those endgame fucks
>>343404905
Wait I'm a bit lost now, which party am I adressing? And I only posted >>343404613
>>343405019
You should try SS1 if you like labyrinths
>>343403462
Nope, doesn't work. I can record desktop just fine while the game doesn't run, but when i run it doesn't record anything.
Citadel progress update - all levels have been lit
other level pics at http://www.moddb.com/games/citadel
>>343375234
I enjoyed Dying Light much more when I found out I could edit the ini files to remove degradation
>criticize a terrible unrealistic game mechanic
>lol gitgud faggot XD
Are people on /v/ retarded
>>343406635
the best thing about citadel is that it will be open source so anyone can make entirely new levels/campaigns with all the assets and it had co-op and deathmatch planned but i dunno if this has bee dropped or not
>>343384341
Executive level best level
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOkOCAm-v0U
>>343393662
SS1 is so much fun to sequence break.
>>343395447
Some fresh OC, might do some LGS employees too
>>343407692
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3q356rZqQ4
>>343407918
dope
How did System Shock manage to do full 3d only a year after Doom came out?
>>343408951
Because Carmack was obsessed with making fast and efficient engines, with the actual game design being secondary. SS demanded a high-spec machine for the time but that was because they put design first and created a a hugely advanced engine to support it.
>>343408951
>>343409107
Also LGS was composed of MIT graduates.
Weapon degeneration has its time and place, not every isolated mechanic has to be fun, it can be to serve something greater.
Just because dying in games isn't fun, doesn't mean you should remove it.
>>343408951
Doom is effecient but not particularly groundbreaking just look at ultima underworld or some old flight sims
descent also came out toward the end of 1994
>>343375391
The game is perfectly balanced to incorporate it. The only reason you don't like it is because you're used to games where you ALWAYS have some firearm available at your expense. (e.g. Fallout, despite having a durability system, throws enough weapon drops at you to keep you more than equipped), and don't trust that the game will equip you enough to handle the challenges they give you (which any game designer worth their salt can easily accomplish).
In System Shock 2, being part survival horror, every shot counts. Sometimes it's best to save your bullets and weapon durability (which, mind you, are equally sparse) for when you really need it, and resort to using the wrench whenever possible.
Also, only until about halfway through the game (after you've leveled up your maintenance skill) do you have to deal with that sort of thing.
Bottom line, I think anyone who complains about the weapon durability in SS2 is just completely unwilling to step outside of their comfort zone.
>>343409170
>Also LGS was composed of MIT graduates.
This. They ware extremely smart, talented and creative people.
>>343378348
I think that's in some ways a good thing, you know? Like if you decide to pick a different skill to build on, it's like playing a completely different game, with a completely different level of difficulty.
Alright, maybe I'm talking out of my ass, but I know I would have never bothered with a PSI only playthrough if I knew the overall difficulty and balance would be similar to a standard weapons playthrough.
>>343391016
Not sure if you're talking about SS2, but in SS2, durability doesn't affect the damage output. Just the likelyhood of it jamming (which is pretty much never unless its below 20%). It's more like a weapon's health bar.
