Why can't normies and other casuals get into turn based combat?
cause they're dumb
they can't do shit
come on man no one's here for fucking normies jesus
yeah because XCOM 2 was totally not bought by normies
also, Civ 5 technically has turn-based combat and that is as normiecore as you can get
>>343339736
Who knows? Maybe they need a more imediate, less though provoking experience in their medium.
Whatever the reason may be, it's probably similar to why they love to watch movies but hate to read books.
the word is normalfags idiot
>>343339736
Because they don't want to learn how to play, they want something easy, hence why there's so much cinematic games around.
>>343339736
>>343339736
Uhhh.
It's antiquated game mechanic by far.
And something needs to be invented in it's succession.
If I'm to enjoy strategy I prefer the total war series for it's maneuvering.
Not turn based games.
And I've grown up on the FF series, and Commando, so I'm not exactly ignorant on the subject.
>>343339736
Because they play what everyone else is playing and don't make decisions on their own when it comes to game selection.
>>343339736
Because most of the population likes things that are fun and not archaic and board-gamey
>implying turn based isn't casual as fuck
>Why can't normies and other casuals get into turn based combat?
They certainly can.
Pokemon wouldn't sell as well otherwise.
>>343339736
It's the age of sub 5 second attention spans brah. Normies just want to mash buttons to do cool shit and win (sound familiar? Like maybe a QTE?)
>>343341147
>Frog posters in charge of having an opinion
Pokemon and Undertale OP.
You could probably throw Final Fantasy in there as well.
>>343340632
>love to watch movies
You show q normie even the most accessible art film and they'll seethe with rage at thebpure creativity being forced down their throat.
Normies watch action movies and maybe an 'inspiring' tom hanks movie now and then and that's it.
pokemon
>>343339736
So that was the real God right?
They can, and do. But shooting is generally more fun than selecting shoot from a list.
>everyone sitting on their designated sides of the screen
>scroll through a menu
>scroll through a second menu
>pick action
>watch animation
>watch enemy animation
>repeat
I'm sorry, what's so hardcore and elite and awesome about it? Something being old doesn't make it awesome.
>>343339736
because it's an old combat style leftover from text based RPGs from the 1980s. the only reason it ever existed was because developers couldn't figure out how to make real time combat with more than one protagonist. now we know how to do those things.
>>343339736
Turn based jrpgs are outdated and archaic and have been fixed with real time systems that provide the same thing without ever waiting your turn.
>>343342656
>mash button
>watch an animation
>wait for a button prompt to appear on screen
>press button
>watch animation
What's so elite and hardcore about action games?
>>343339736
to simulate being a normie, do something boring as fuck for 8 hours then get drunk and see if you still like your favorite video game
>>343342969
Aren't you supposed to always be drunk?
>>343339736
>normies
Please kill yourself.
>>343342341
There's nuance inside any given medium. That's why it's just that: a medium. The goal can still be more or less though provoking or hard to digest.
Compare the same piece and see where there is a greater concentration of casuals: the movie or the book?
Unless the book was seriously dumbed down or the movie took many liberties to make it more complex, I can't think of an example where the book audience is the more casual of the two.
>>343342880
That's a problem in of itself, that so much time and resources are being wasted on what are basically simulations of old school JRPGs.
>>343342656
there are grid based 3d turn based games fucking hell
>>343342926
>controlling myself the entire time, going left and right and forward and back and jumping to attack and dodge
Sorry that I like things to be dynamic and energetic when I play a video game. Turn-based may have been cutting edge and the most amazing thing at one point but that was a long time ago and it doesn't need to be the absolute only way to play a video game.
Are you somehow implying that Final Fantasy 7 did sell 10 million copies?
>>343343249
Yes yes we know about SRPGs, Fire Emblem was a smashing success. But they aren't that much better than regular JRPGs without a movement phase.
>>343342656
It's about the decision making.
Of course there are plenty of casual turn-based games out there, but in general they are less intuitive because you don't rely on reflex or impulse and have to think about your actions.
Likewise, there are many strategic real time combat games out there too, but we're speaking in general here.
>>343342561
It's a toss-up.
On paper, Kirk wins. One of the few survivors of a huge massacre. Reprogrammed an unwinnable scenario in Starfleet so that he could win. Promoted while very young, but demoted for fucking up. He is a wonderfully flawed character.
Patrick Stewart is a better actor though, so Picard is still pretty good.
>>343339736
Slow, boring, often unrewarding.
>>343343503
>playing jrpgs
well theres your problem
>>343343179
>I can't think of an example where the book audience is the more casual of the two.
You're aware plenty of people read but they only read crap like game of thrones or harry potter?
Or are you comparing adaptations to their source material? Those are always bad unless major liberties are taken.
If you're just trying to say that people who read a lot probably have better taste overall then I agree.
>>343339736
Because turned based combat actually requires you to stop and think instead of "PUSH BUTTON -> SOMETHING AWESOME HAPPENS". Casuals play vidya for the instant gratification.
>>343343503
Dude being able to control positioning is a game changer. Imagine an RTS but in a linear line where you just push buttons to build units and they walk to towards the enemy side of the map. Compared to normal RTS games that's boring as fuck.
Plus your definition of turn based games seems incredibly narrow, including only J/SRPGS and leaving out pure strategy games (Advance Wars, Civilization) or even traditional board games, D20 RPGs, and tabletop games.
Millennials can't do anything right without someone holding their little hand and if there is no sniper rifle it might as well not exist.
>>343343887
>hurr you can only think when you can sit for a long time looking through menus!
You must be slow as fuck.
>>343343503
If I recall correctly, Awakening (which was the first one to be considered a success among the general public) had a sort of Dark Souls effect where it got popular but it was regarded as being quite punishing by newcomers, despite being probably the easiest in the whole series at that point.
And yes, it's not only "not that better" than any other JRPG. It's flat out worse. Much worse.
But that's to be expectd since positioning is such a critical part of the gameplay.
That's like saying something like Call of Duty would be like Dear Esther withough the shooting.
Good question. You'd think games not based on reflex or reaction time would be right up thier alley, but casuals can't even handle something as simple as Pokemon.
I'm betting these people button mash when they're on the verge of defeat. You can't really do that in a turned-based game and maybe that's why they consider them "antiquated" or "archaic".
>>343343969
So how old are you? 40?
Millennials are like 90% of the people playing videos games you dumb meme spewing pile of sludge.
>>343339736
When you say turned based combat do you mean games like FF? Where only the combat is in turn?
They can. FF is the most normie game right now pretty much. I think most turn based games just seem boring to non gamers. Which in their defense, a lot are.
>>343343789
>If you're just trying to say that people who read a lot probably have better taste overall then I agree.
Not what I was trying to say, but sure. That doesn't sound too far from reality.
>Or are you comparing adaptations to their source material?
That's precisely what I was talking about. Comparing the same piece to it's adaptation.
>Those are always bad unless major liberties are taken.
Not necessarily bad. Not necessarily more casual either, because sometimes we see shit like games turned into books or anime turned into manga. Some times it works better, some times it doesn't.
But in general, and I do emphasize the "in general" part, some types of media are more casual friendly than others, I guess that's what I'm trying to say.
Blah blah blah muh normies blah blah blah
When will you autists stop fighting made up characters? Go join the military or some shit
>>343344516
there's an obvious difference between the older milennials and the younger ones. when someone says milennials in a derogatory context, they're talking about people born in the '90s. technically milennials includes people born in the 80's as well but those people had a much more traditional upbringing and exposure to a wider variety of genres.
>>343343959
That was actually how the first RTS worked.
And you are vastly overestimating the benefit of the movement phase, even if SRPGs are clearly more complex than regular JRPGs they're still pretty simplistic.
>>343339736
Turn based combat is normally (not always) even more casual than your average cover shooter because your average turn based game just lets you overlevel your dudes to the point that combat takes no skill, or they don't have any more depth than minmaxing your dps and healing while using whatever equipment the current dungeon is weak to.
>>343339736
ADD retards
>>343340982
Realtime RPGs have been a thing since before you were born
>>343339736
Pokemon and the newer Fire Emblems disagree with your statement
>>343345214
Go beat every Wizardry game if turn based is so casual. 4 is the easiest to start with.
>>343340982
Says he is not exactly ignorant on the subject.
Brings the one of the most primitive TBS games and a REAL TIME game as example.
>>343345436
I fucking love wizardry. That series is one of the reasons I made sure to say not all turn based is casual.
>>343339736
because
>normies and other casuals
>>343345436
You can apply that logic to anything. The majority of turn based games are casual as fuck.
>>343345214
Don't lump shitty JRPGs with classic turn based CRPGs please. They'd be equally casual if they were realtime too.
>>343345614
The majority of video games are casual as fuck.
Turn based combat is fine when the options are rich with implications and you don't have to manually select menu items for routine encounters
Because normies and casuals are all about instant gratification.
>>343345113
>That was actually how the first RTS worked.
I'm well aware, and they still make those as flash games. The point is the ability to move around makes things far more interesting in what would originally be a battle of menus.
>And you are vastly overestimating the benefit of the movement phase, even if SRPGs are clearly more complex than regular JRPGs they're still pretty simplistic.
This depends entirely on the game. Games with solid mechanics that reward good positioning and penalize bad positioning will of course be better than games where you merely need to move adjacent and attack until enemy is dead.
I would also argue that a game does not need to be (rule) complex to be fun and engaging (strategy complex). Advance Wars can be broken down into fairly simple components and phases, but the end result can be damn fun with lots of options. To go with traditional examples, Chess and Go are mechanically simple games but end up having a wide array of strategy and options.
>>343345214
>Over-leveling
>exclusive to turn based games
I can make an invincible pain train build in Mass Effect and completely trivialize all combat, I guess that means the Mass Effect series is turn based.
You what? Most popular casual-friendly games are turn-based nowadays, from civ to hearthstone. It's easiest there is. I can play turn based games even while not sober without any loss of performance, this is not the case for real time combat. That includes all kinds of games, from aforementioned abominations to something harder, like xenonauts, or paradox games (which are essentially turn-based). Stop jerking yourself off to the thought of you playing turn-based games, pathetic nerd. There is nothing to it except for elementary school level math. Do you genuinely think that's something hard or impressive?
>>343339736
because they don't play vidya to think
>>343339736
Because most devs today use turn based combat as a cop out to avoid having to develop a better system. Turn based gameplay is by no means outdated but many devs use it for the wrong reasons.
I don't mind turn based combat, had fun playing some of them but I have to agree that I suck incredibly at The Banner Saga. I can manage other games like HoMM3 or Wasteland 2 though.. but they aren't quite the same I suppose.
>why can't normies get into pokemon
>>343348132
Check out Jagged Alliance 2 or the mainline Might and Magic games.
>>343348132
Just to make sure, you are spending your stat points after you level up, right?
Because I went through more than half of the game with effectively level 1 characters, after investing a lot of money on level ups.
>>343339736
idk
>>343348519
JAgged Alliance 2 had a super interesting concept, but a couple hours in and I couldn't get past the fact that my dudes had worse accuracy than every other low level guy out there.
I hate low accuracy tactics RPGs, but this one takes the cake for having my guys be even worse than the enemy.
>>343349281
Sounds like a serious case of needing to RTFM and git gud to be honest. Were you playing with 1.13 with the new chance to hit system? It's pretty easy to land shots in Jagged Alliance 2 especially with how much control your have over your accuracy.
>>343349281
>>343349445
I don't understand anything you just said.
Look, on a clear field, medium distance, dudes hit me about half the time, give or take, while I need 3 or 4 shots to hit them. At point blank range everyone hits everything, but at least in the early game more combat takes place in open areas.
Badly-designed turn-based combat, the kind where no strategy can give any advantages over raw power, tends to be too grindy for people who can't or won't spend a lot of time playing their games. Well-designed turn-based combat, like the Press Turn system in some of the Shin Megami Tensei games, is harder to figure out, far surpassing the ability or willingness of casuals to invest mental effort in a game. You can make a turn-based game that appeals to relatively casual players, but it can neither be too grindy nor too complicated. Pokemon's success is in hitting that sweet spot for the kids of each successive gaming generation, where a clearly-stated elemental type system is a far superior strategy to mere grinding.
>>343343959
>Dude being able to control positioning is a game changer. Imagine an RTS but in a linear line where you just push buttons to build units and they walk to towards the enemy side of the map. Compared to normal RTS games that's boring as fuck.
That style of play was popularized by flash games
>>343348543
Yeah, I did that. I'm just very poor with positioning my characters properly and thinking one steap ahed what the enemy might do. So I get killed often.
I turned it down to easy mode and finished the game though, but I'm about to play Banner Saga 2 and hope to improve.
>>343349926
RTFM = Read The Fucking Manual
You're probably firing out of your handgun's effective range and wondering why only 1 out of 5 shots hits with your poorly trained mercs. Try hiring a merc that starts with some sort of rifle to make early game easier or lern2stealth.
>>343350558
I'm talking about two dudes firing at each other at the exact same range.
So, do mercs start with significantly worse stats than the first enemies you encounter in the game? Or they have better weapons than what we start with?
I might as well be doing something very wrong here, because this makes no sense and the difference was significant enough to make me want to stop playing the game.
If it's by design, then to hell with this shit.
>>343351156
Your stance and cover is important for not getting hit and the manual will tell you how to find out what spots are better or worse to take cover in. You can get mercs right of the bat with really high or low accuracy depending on the price and train them up. Like I said, read the manual because it really does help.
>>343343315
>Step aside gran pa, the new kids on the block rule this industry now
Take your ritalin you faggot
>>343339736
>normies
Please stop this meme at once /r9k/
>>343345569
They were till Turn Based entries.
Whither it was the fucking FF games on the NES & SNES, or Commando
Or 7.62 High Calibre.
A lot of turn-based games lately have just been dragged down by the mechanic.
