What exactly is the appeal to this game? I get that it's hard and just because a game is hard doesn't make it bad. But just because a game is hard doesn't make it good either. The tutorial is trash, the game expects you to know stuff just because or via trial and error, which is a poor game design in almost any game, the combat is button mashing so bad it puts fighting games to shame, the controls are a bit clunky, most of the difficulty comes from cheap kills (didn't think to suddenly U-turn when entering the boss lair? arrows up the ass!), getting sent so far back every time you die just adds redundancy, and most of the combat where you aren't button mashing is just waiting for an enemy to get close or put his shield down. What is the appeal?
>>343263172
Git Gud
>>343263464
pretty much this from the sounds of it
>>343263464
Great response. I really do want to like the game, it's just not even rewarding when you win.
>>343263464
>>343263587
Good to know I accidentally hit /b/ instead of /v/.
>>343263679
You are very opinionated and it's not anyone's duty to cater to you
>>343263172
Anon, you've already decided you hate it. Why bother?
>>343263172
The series has a ton of atmosphere and has some extremely unique and memorable bosses. Also they're fun I guess I don't know what you want to hear
>>343263857
I wanted to like it. I want to maybe see what I am missing to build off of that.
>>343263846
Yeah, but you also shouldn't respond like leddit memelord. It is very fine to think I am wrong, but if somebody says they don't like a game that is popular and the response is 'git gud', you might as well be /r/PCMasterRace.
>>343263172
>What is the appeal?
It doesn't babysit you through everything and expects you to learn from your own mistakes. Unlike most modern games that will tell you what to do every step of the way.
>>343263679
kek, dark souls community is famously abrasive but also welcoming at the same time
open up your vessel and let us inject souls and skill into you
>the game expects you to know stuff just because or via trial and error
examples
>the combat is button mashing so bad it puts fighting games to shame
literally git gud, try to button mash anything after the tutorial
>the controls are a bit clunky
not as clunky as in The Witcher 3
>most of the difficulty comes from cheap kills
Examples
>didn't think to suddenly U-turn when entering the boss lair? arrows up the ass!
More like
>didn't observe your environment and ran straight forward instead of tilting your camera a little bit to see a ladder? get punished. also if you aren't a retard you'll get shot before aggroing the taurus demon.
>getting sent so far back every time you die just adds redundancy
If you observe your environment you'll almost never be sent far back
>most of the combat where you aren't button mashing is just waiting for an enemy to get close or put his shield down
Try button mashing on anything after tutorial
>>343263172
the souls series isn't hard. it just requires a bit of adaptability and concentration.
that's pretty rare these days, but the souls series does a good job of providing that in a modern package.
>>343264086
> learn from mistakes
There is a difference between learning and trial and error. This game gives you a paper thin character against a boss/miniboss that will basically get a guaranteed kill or two.
>>343264015
Atmosphere is nice and increasingly important as we do get better graphics, but this is still a game and gameplay comes first. And gameplay so far is button mash through grunts until you get to a boss/miniboss that rapes you once/twice, beat your way through the grunts again, re-face boss.
>>343264213
> inject souls and skill
It's not that it's too hard it's just not rewarding for the difficulty and it feels like cheap difficulty.
> abrasive
I don't mind that so much but none of you so far gave any actual reason for liking it besides difficulty and atmosphere, neither of which are enough to make something a good game without better core gameplay.
>>343264056
Chill out a little, li'l console
>What is the appeal
I'll list everything.
>great atmosphere
>music
>interesting NPCs
>combat that doesn't let you buttonmash everything after 3 hours of play
>requires some intelligence
>requires observing the environment
>doesn't expect the player to be a retard
>some of the best bosses in vidya ever
>great variety in playstyle
>rewards skill, not stats
>>343264056
>you might as well be /r/PCMasterRace
>being this familiar with reddit
>>343263172
I don't understand why people whine about the tutorial in ds1. There's like 4 enemies in it and that boulder trap doesn't do enough damage to kill you and you're like 10 feet from a bonfire anyway. I'm pretty sure there's even a note talking saying to watch out. There's also a note telling you to run from the boss as a door opens, it's pretty obvious what you're supposed to do, and then when the game practically forces you to do a plunging attack on it you only gotta hit it like 7 times to kill it.
>>343264548
>examples
Second boss with the archers behind you, expects you to die to a boss to learn to beat it.
> button mashing after tutorial
All through up to the second boss and beyond, button mashing to hell. If you thought it was harder than that, you might not have skills yourself.
> not as clunky as The Witcher 3
Doesn't mean this is good.
> observe environment
Yeah, and get kill trying to get a decent view of it. I mean, you can pretend you beat everything first try because ur hardcore amirite :^)
> never be sent back if you observe environment
So then it's not hard? Then what is the point at all?
> button mashing again
Yeah, you can button mash. Don't know if you are special or something. I did just fine against grunts. Mini-bosses, no, you do need more. Grunts are button mash fodder, no skill whatsoever.
serious answer now, Dark Souls is great because it's one of a rare few games where it just presents you the game and says "Okay, go."
No hand-holding, no endlessly-chattering familiar, no 2 hour plot exposition where every last detail and twist is explained to you, no overt and obvious warnings for gameplay that completely ruin the point of throwing a challenge at you, no goddamn QTEs.
There's just Lordran, and you, trying to make your way through an incredibly lethal land and trying to piece together what the fuck's going on all off item descriptions and vague NPC chatter.
Other games will carefully apportion and soften up their experience so it's perfectly digestible for the player, no matter how good or how afwul they are at video games. Dark Souls challenges you to explore and experience it, to sink your teeth into the meat, rip it loose, chew, and suck the nutrients from it.
>>343264751
>This game gives you a paper thin character against a boss/miniboss that will basically get a guaranteed kill or two.
how is it guaranteed
>>343265127
>expects you to die to a boss to learn to beat it.
No boss in the game actually EXPECTS you to do that. Everything necessary can be figured out using careful observation and intelligent deduction.
go home reddit fag
>>343264781
>atmosphere, music
Good, but not enough on their own.
> interesting NPCs
LOL.
> can't buttonmash after 3 hrs
Yeah okay guys, keep saying that.
> requires some intelligence, observation, etc
Yeah, after dying a few times.
> best bosses
Legitimately not far enough to judge the bosses of the game as a whole yet, so not sure.
> rewards skill, not stats
I think I've played Nintendo games that are harder, just shorter.
> variety in playstyle
Fair enough, but that is any half-decent RPG.
>>343264940
If you don't want to be compared to Reddit, then don't be Reddit :^). Just like if you start saying "don't say faggot, it's offensive!" I'll tell you to go to Tumblr.
>>343265086
I don't mind it for it's difficulty, I feel like it doesn't actually teach you to play the game as well as you are expected to/you don't really get opportunities in it to do the stuff you are supposed to learn. I understand that the game itself is supposed to be hard, but a tutorial is just for learning mechanics/controls/etc and you learn some stuff but don't do much.
>>343263172
I like ot because it filters retarded braindead people.
>>343265127
>expects you to die to a boss to learn to beat it.
pic related, expects you to watch the environment while you have an occasion to do it.
>All through up to the second boss and beyond, button mashing to hell. If you thought it was harder than that, you might not have skills yourself.
What a dumb fag. Using your whole moveset is five times more proficient and fun. Later in the game it's basically fucking required. Also I can understand why you thought that taurus is unfair if you didn't have any estus flasks after dps racing with the hollows in the burg.
>Yeah, and get kill trying to get a decent view of it. I mean, you can pretend you beat everything first try because ur hardcore amirite :^)
Tell me what attacks you if you tilt your camera to the right on the bridge, faggit
>So then it's not hard? Then what is the point at all?
The point is that it requires observing the environment to find the shortcuts. Also Dark Souls isn't good because of muh difficulty
>Yeah, you can button mash. Don't know if you are special or something. I did just fine against grunts. Mini-bosses, no, you do need more. Grunts are button mash fodder, no skill whatsoever.
You didn't do just fine, since Taurus fucking murdered you.
>>343263172
>combat is button mashing
I think I understand why you dont like it
>>343265423
> grinds for hours
> dies to a boss multiple times
> looks at guide to figure it out
> "you pleb just can't understand because you didn't observe man, you are a reddit pleb"
>>343265521
Oh no, he doesn't like my game, better call him Reddit!
>complain the game is button mashing then complain the game is hard
4/10
>>343265523
>LOL.
You're 15 minutes in, idiot.
>Yeah okay guys, keep saying that.
You're at fucking Taurus. But pretend that you're in the half of the game because you couldn't find stairs in Firelink.
>>343265523
The game tells you everything you need to know, though. It even shows you that there's going to be traps in the game in the tutorial. I don't understand what more you want from the tutorial, do you want it to explicitly describe how to combat every type of enemy?
>button mashing
I'll wait for the next thread in 30-40 hours with shit like "JESUS CHRIST MULTIPLE ENEMIES SO UNFAIR"
>>343265564
Yeah senpai, don't walk forward at all. Look at every other thing instead :^)
> button mashing and not having flasks
Nope, had flasks. It's just really not hard to get through with button mashing. I don't understand how you can say I'm bad at fighting bosses but you think grunts require more than this.
> tell me what attacks you at the bridge
Not that same example.
> didn't do just fine because you lost to boss
And I said I did fine against grunts and just had to go to the boss again. Is reading hard for you?
>>343265523
>LOL.
Ohhh, so you've already completed NPC quests! Where in Undead Burg did you find Logan, Sunlight Maggots, Marvelous Chester or Sieglinde?
>>343263172
It's an easy game but the atmosphere is excellent and the combat mechanics are great. The levels are well designed and if you add a couple self-imposed restrictions, the boss fights are very entertaining.
>>343265807
post your steam achievements with atleast 4 bosses dead or kill yourself you disgusting subhuman edgelord
Dark douls ghe entire series really is shit. Cultured shit. Grimdark with a nonsensical story thay boils down to le cycle continues xD.
Aa you siad the game isnt hard, its just trial and error stupidity. Case in point, capra demon. Walk into boss fog and a second later you have two (2) dogs and a big ass demon that you cant roll out of. Say hello to YOU ARE DEAD screen because youre going to get familiar with it. Not because youre particularly retarded or dull witted, but because the game throws out blatant bullshit that a first time goer couldnt possibly know of.
But for the record, Bloodborne + TOH is the best game in the series. If only it had area variation and more weapons.
.
>>343263589
Whatt??? killing that boss that just rekt you over and over again finally is a fucking amazing feeling
>>343265759
Wouldn't the triple axes in the house after the second bonfire in Burg have triggered him then?
>I'm too stupid to figure things out before dying so the game is not good at teaching and relies on trial an error
Quality thread OP.
>>343265807
>Yeah senpai, don't walk forward at all.
>i'm too retarded to look around
fucking kek
>you think grunts require more than this.
>Not that same example.
Oh now I understand, you got murdered by the Black Knight. That's getting "kill for trying to get a decent view at it". No wonder, he'd fuck me up if I kept button mashing like you.
>And I said I did fine against grunts and just had to go to the boss again. Is reading hard for you?
That's why you "got kill trying to get a decent view on them", right?
>>343265629
Parts of game are easy, other parts are hard.
>>343265637
Past that boss, I just used it as an example.
>>343265697
I feel like maybe giving me some opportunities to do drop stabs, or whatever it is, would have been nice. Didn't even realize I could do it until later.
>>343265759
>Stand outside enemy range
> fire magic
> enemy dies
> repeat
And
> enemy gets close
>backpeddle, wait for it to attack, attack when it misses
Like, seriously, the grunts are braindead easy. Maybe if they could keep my attention then I'd want to play it more.
And I like how, again, instead of giving some things you guys like about the game, which 1 or 2 did, and I give you credit for that, you mostly just go "git gud fagt." Fucking cancer. If I'm a couple bosses in, the game should be fun by now.
>>343263172
>combat is button mashing
wew lad
>>343265127
>Second boss with the archers behind you, expects you to die to a boss to learn to beat it.
You have to walk incredibly far until the Taurus jumps up, more than enough time to realise there are arrows flying at your head before you even start the fight.
![1460412375_tUXJA0P[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/BYKxGUU.jpg "1460412375_tUXJA0P[1].jpg")
>>343264751
>And gameplay so far is button mash
not really sure what your talking about... combat mechanics are pretty sharp in this game man, its all about timing, timing your blocks, parries, rolls, using the right attack (rolling,sprinting,jump,plunging, heavy, light) at the right time, finding the weakness of each enemy and exploiting it, whether its a tactic or certain element or item they are weak to... idk man i honestly love dark souls combat so i guess im bias but w/e
woooow
I walked right up behind him and didn't even get the backstab
then he hit me when I fucking dodged
this game? it's BULLSHIT
0/10 uninstalled
>>343265523
>> rewards skill, not stats
>I think I've played Nintendo games that are harder, just shorter.
You didn't even address his point but whatever my dude, have fun
>>343265878
Not him but
>Where in Undead Burg did you find these characters that aren't in Undead Burg
Did you mean Lordran?
>>343266023
>I can't adapt to new situations
>That means the game is trial and error bullshit
I beat Capra the first time I walked in the room. Don't blame the game for you being shit at it.
The only thing BS about the game is how it doesn't explain it's systems to you very well, but even then that can be understood through basic experimentation.This entire thread screams bait, but retard Soulsfags like me fall for it every time.
>>343266169
>I just used it as an example, I swear!
>And I like how, again, instead of giving some things you guys like about the game
I did, and you responded with "LOL." about NPCs while being 15 minutes into the game, congratulations.
You know why the game is easy right now? Because you're supposed to learn the basics while enemies still give you an opportunity to button mash.
So if tour in so far and you dint like it the game?wikply us not for you. Nigger lover
>>343266157
> kek
Nice meme, friend.
> black knight
Not sure if that's him or not, I was told not to look shit up because it would 'ruin the experience.'
> killed getting a decent view
Not of the grunts, tard. Again, reading comprehension is nice.
>>343266147
I mean, I suppose getting them to run at you one at a time is strategy, but not really deep strategy or anything. You do that in any game. But yeah, they weren't an issue, just harder than a single enemy, which is a given.
>>343266154
> hurr durr, game is hard, OP just dumb
Quality contribution
>>343266443
>Did you mean Lordran?
That was sarcastic anon. I was curious why does he laugh at NPCs while he's still at fucking Undead Burg.
>>343265623
>Oh no, he doesn't like my game, better call him Reddit!
Don't like it if you want but don't come to us saying "I wanted to like it but it's in fact shit ! I wanted to ! Tell me what is there to like !" you fag
OP stop posting it's hurting me
The appeal of Dark Souls is not the gameplay.
It's one of the more interesting game worlds ever created, thematically. It's incredibly rich.
>>343266335
>player gets caught on the map geometry at the start
It's the little things
>Nice meme, friend.
Same about your :^) in almost every post you make
>Not sure if that's him or not, I was told not to look shit up because it would 'ruin the experience.'
Not an argument. And he was a "grunt", so you got killed by a grunt.
>Not of the grunts, tard. Again, reading comprehension is nice.
>I'll pretend Black Knight isn't a grunt by saying some shit about "not ruining the experience"
>>343263172
I prefer dragons dogma, maybe your looking for gameplay such as that
I've used the Dark Souls series to fill the "contiguous world action adventure game" void while I wait for a new Zelda/Metroid to come out, personally.
They're pretty hit and miss but they are of good enough quality to buy when they go on sale, and I get a lot of hours out of them.
>>343266472
>>kek
>Nice meme, friend.
This screams "I'm not a newfag like all these other posters, I've been here 6 months!"
>>343266558
>The appeal of Dark Souls is not the gameplay.
I like the gameplay AND the lore of Dark Souls.git gud scrub
>>343266725
OP's name is "looking for gameplay such as that"
?
I'm just about to finish it after giving up and coming back several times, I'm level 130 with about 117 hours. Im wrapping up the dlc area, just finished off the knight, is he crippled or what? Anyways durring one of my farming runs it was late and I was leveling up my quelags fury sword, when I accidentally descended the weapon and lost it for good!!! My heart was broken, it was like I lost a child. Didn't give up, went and got uchi, then got the great scythe, now I'm one shorting most of the competition. The greatest thing about this game to me is how it leaves the player to think about the events that happened through the use of atmosphere. Sure it can be hard but the rules are really simple and most of my deaths come from getting too greedy and wanting to finish off an enemy too quick that it leaves me open for a counter. The game started to make sense for me towards the last quarter.
>>343266323
Timing isn't that hard, it is more waiting for them to finish rather than precision timing.
>>343266217
You guys are really hung up on
> well, he didn't look behind him once, he must be a shit player
I mean, when the grunts are all scattered about it is kind of easy to just see them and kill them off. And trying to look around a map looking for the archers isn't really that fun either anyway.
>>343266175
Even bosses are just dodge, slash/spell. You're just so paper thin you die in a few hits.
>>343266335
I know the gif is a joke, but really didn't realize there was a backstab in this game until it was by accident.
>>343266464
I didn't get that far, but a few bosses in should at least make the game enjoyable, right? I can't think of any other game that I wasn't having fun in at that point.
>>343266558
I like both the lore and the gameplay
Also I love how everything in this game adds to the atmosphere, even the interface.
Oh, and this is a pretty minor complaint, but corpses dragging along with you are obnoxious. Even bethesda managed to not have that shit, and their games break all over themselves.
>>343266912
>And trying to look around a map looking for the archers isn't really that fun either anyway.
I don't know if this game is "for" you. Part of the whole point of Dark Souls is that the enemies are fighting back just as hard as you're fighting them. They're not going to passively roll over, they're not going to give you Appropriately Difficult encounters. There's going to be archers and wizards blasting you from incredibly inconvenient positions while their beefier mates are rushing straight at you.
Until you git gud, then you're going to have to carefully evaluate the environment, and think to yourself "If I was a horrible rotting undead monster, and living here for 800000 years, where would I set up camp to defend it against intruders? What would be the best spots to hide in?" because that's exactly where the monsters are gonna be, where they would be if they were actual players.
>>343267043
I kinda miss flinging corpses over rails with a roll though.
And literally just button mashed my way through like, 10 grunts.
Okay, and maybe I should have asked this, but is the magic (sage, whatever) class just the lame one to play as? Picking stuff off at a range is easy but boring, going up close is less strategically sound. Most stuff loses to backpeddaling + spam. Haven't had ammo problems either.
>>343266912
>You're just so paper thin you die in a few hits.
That's why you either don't get hit, level up your character's Health, or put on heavier armor.
This is an Action-RPG anon, you need to pay attention to both parts.
>>343267043
I actually like that feature.
When they removed it in Dark Souls 2 I was quite sad.Good thing it's back in Dark Souls 3
>>343263172
It's comfy as fuck
One of my favorite things about Dark Souls is just bashing against a difficult boss repeatedly and figuring out all the little idiosyncrasies and tricks they'll do. Finally vanquishing them after they've shoved their metal-encrusted dick through your eye, your left lung, your pelvis, and your thigh (three times), is a great feeling.
Even greater is figuring out what their plan is on the first try and just going straight for the heart and crushing them in one shot!
DS has some really excellent duel bosses.
>>343265759
Main reason why DS1 shitters dislike DS2.
GIT GUD YOU FUCK
You should really finish the game or get as far as you can before dropping it. I wouldn't let other people's opinions hamper your experience.
>>343267187
If you could pick them up or something (can you?) then it would be different. Just dragging them along is a bit annoying sometimes. Again, kinda minor.
>>343267180
> not roll over for you
My problem is the grunts are too uninteresting and grindy unless they are guarding a boss/mini boss. And I kinda like bosses/min bosses that work on their own with better attack patterns, not ones that rely on little enemies needling you or obnoxious close quarters.
>>343263589
It is a great response, you a completely unthinking person, you refuse to even think a little given your observations in the OP.
Put some more effort into it.
>But just because a game is hard doesn't make it good either.
It's not supposed to be hard, but you're actually expected to learn the game, maybe that's too much for you.
>The tutorial is trash, the game expects you to know stuff just because or via trial and error, which is a poor game design in almost any game
The tutorial is actually great and very informative, it gives all the necessary information than immediately gives you a chance to test it out, the best way to learn something is to test it out, before giving you another tidbit with another opportunity to try the next, as opposed to other games that just throw a wall of text at you with terms and mechanics that you are not yet familiar with when you start a new game, that's a bad tutorial.
It has two bonfires for a very small area, so if you do die it barely takes any time to get back and you can try as many times as you want with no real downside since you can't permanently die.
> the combat is button mashing so bad it puts fighting games to shame
>just waiting for an enemy to get close or put his shield down
No wonder you think it's hard, you just push buttons hoping you'll win, the game tells you you can kick to break a shielded enemy, you can create openings yourself, flank them and play more aggressively, but choose to turtle up instead and then complain about waiting, Arin is that you, you multiple chinned faggot?
>>343266912
>And trying to look around a map looking for the archers isn't really that fun either anyway
This is a valid opinion. Saying the game is unfair or whatever because you didn't look around is not. People who like the Souls games usually like the relatively slow pace, the exploration, the lack of hand-holding and all that stuff, apart from the lore and setting. If you do not then stop playing, the game doesn't turn into Devil May Cry at any point.
>>343267248
>>>343267043
>I actually like that feature.
>When they removed it in Dark Souls 2 I was quite sad.
>Good thing it's back in Dark Souls 3
DS3 shares SO MANY quirks with DS1 and so few with DS2 that I'm convinced DS2 was a fork of DS1's engine and the third game didn't continue on that fork at all and just went back to the DS1 branch.
There's even little stuff like DS3's starting loadout for gestures being the exact same as DS1's even though the DS2 starter loadout is superior and more expressive.
It almost seems like Fromsoft overreacted to the DS2 negative feedback and just scrapped *absolutely everything* about DS2.
>there are people on 4chan that are still spouting the "Dark Souls is hard" meme
It isn't hard, it's just punishing.
>>343263172
>, the controls are a bit clunky,
Controls are near perfect. Kicking is awkward, and I would like non-lock on controls for attack items and magic.
>most of the difficulty comes from cheap kills (didn't think to suddenly U-turn when entering the boss lair? arrows up the ass!),
None of them are cheap. Be cautious. Then learn from mistakes and hazards.
> getting sent so far back every time you die just adds redundancy,
Bonfires are checkpoints, and dying sends you back. It means you have to learn the level and beat it.
>and most of the combat where you aren't button mashing
You should not be button mashing. Are you just spamming R1, running out of stamina and getting hit? don't do that. Put your shield up. Kick them. Run around to their back. Bait an attack and counter. Wait for them to attack and Ripose. Any number of options.
>>343267442
My problem isn't with the basic enemies. Walk back and forth, they miss, you attack. That counts as button mashing, yes? And it handles grunt enemies just fine.
>>343267248
I am the magic guy, so I am more paper than other classes.
>>343267341
I would do this if you didn't have to repeat every time you die.
>>343267484
I've only just gotten to the Profaned Capital and already the amount of Dark Souls references in 3 are retarded. I particularly hate this trend of every area literally just being 2 DaS areas smashed together.
>>343267657
Dodging and counter attacking, but that feels pretty button mashy for what you guys say is supposed to be strategic and require intelligence. For real, is mage just too easy for the grunts? Picking them off by inching forward and shooting one at a time is easy and effective. I mean, if the game didn't want me doing it, they should've made them more aware or something.
>>343266912
>I know the gif is a joke, but really didn't realize there was a backstab in this game until it was by accident.
The tutorial tells you
>>343263172
Demon Souls is the best first game in the series to get, but it's PS3 only. Dark Souls is slower, and a bit harder, and more awkward for first time players. It sounds like you bought it on sale, had some problems. I kind of died a lot in Dark Souls because I didn't really get the combat. I restarted, with a better character, and got it a lot more.
I recommend starting with a knight or warrior, getting a long sword, unequipping items until you can fast or mid-roll. Then pumping everything into VIT and END.
>>343267484
Dark Souls 1 and 3 were the brainchildren of Hidetaka Miyazaki.
Dark Souls 2 wasn't directed by Miyazaki, as he was focusing on Bloodborne at the timealong with the rest of the From Software's "A-Team".
Dark Souls 2 was directed by Tomohiro Shibuya and Yui Tanimura.
>>343265623
>grinding
There is zero grinding needed in Dark Souls. They throw more than enough souls at you. And grinding only helps your stats modestly. Really, 1-2 more points in Strength mean very little.
>>343267728
>Walk back and forth, they miss, you attack. That counts as button mashing, yes?
What? How on earth is that considered button-mashing? If you're actually timing your actions and doing different things it's not fucking button-mashing. If you could just stand there and spam R1 all day then sure, but you'll just die if you actually try that.
>>343267918
In one of those little glowing notes? So I missed the one.
>>343267941
> sale
Yeah, timing.
> knight or warrior
I was told mage was OP, against weaker enemies that definitely seems to be the case because killing them before they can even get to you is just super easy. Not sure how other classes fair against bosses in terms of damage, so maybe it isn't as bad.
>>343268187
I mean, it's pretty methodical. Like, some enemies actually make you at least wait for a tell or something but some you kinda just bounce around doing this mindlessly and slaughter them.
>>343263172
It doesnt hold your hand and you have the amazing feeling of figuring shit out and feeling like a boss when you finally get it.
>>343267728
>That counts as button mashing, yes?
No it doesn't.
Not in any stretch of the phrase.
>I am the magic guy
Starting as a Mage or Cleric is going to be a lot harder for a first time player than a standard melee class would be.
Those classes are geared towards builds that, in Dark Souls 1 at least,generally have less diversity to their play style and much less freedom towards their final product.
I would advise playing as a melee class/build for you first time and NOT choosing the Master Key as your Starting Gift.
This is how the first run is intended to be played.
>>343268097
Grinding for upgrade items is a thing, especially if you care to get your armor upgraded.
>>343268295
>it's pretty methodical.
"Mashing" as a term implies randomness, not method.
>>343267657
Not op, but
>Controls are near perfect
The controls really are pretty awkward. Kick is unreliable, jump and run being the same button is retarded, the heavy attack is on the easier to press button instead of the harder to press one, running requires you to claw it if you want to control the camera at the same time, you have to double claw if you want to run and change items at the same time, there's this really awkward buffer when you let go of run that makes you walk for a long time before it realizes you want to start running again, and looking down the sights of a bow is really unintuitive, not to mention that there is no reticle for magic at all.
>None of them are cheap
Some of them definitely are stupid if you are playing it the first time.
>It means you have to learn the level and beat it.
Really it just means you need to sprint for ages to get back to bosses, which makes it much more difficult to retain anything you might have learned from your first attempt.
>>343266169
>I feel like maybe giving me some opportunities to do drop stabs, or whatever it is, would have been nice. Didn't even realize I could do it until later.
You don't mean plunging attacks, right? Because you're taught that right before the tutorial boss and are expected to use it on said boss.
>>343268295
No, not really. If you do it "mindlessly" you'll just get hit all the time and die. If you understand that you have to back away to avoid their attack, then that necessarily means you have to wait for them to attack, and most enemies give you a tell beforehand that they're about to, giving you time to back off or at least dodge.
>>343268346
> methodical
Okay, wrong word because late. Repetitive. If it works over and over without much thought put into timing, that's weak. And as a mage, spamming magic, or at least one/two shotting things is pretty effective and doesn't require me to be skilled at all.
>>343268346
>Grinding for upgrade items is a thing, especially if you care to get your armor upgraded.
It's not essential. I know you can grind Large Titanite shards early game in Blight town. But when you really need them, they give you merchants you can just buy them from. Also, they give you enough items to take at least one weapon to +15. It's not essential to bring everything to +15 in your first run. They expect you to do that over the course of several playthroughs.
It's not mashy, maybe if ur killing ur basic undead. The thinking part comes in when u are waiting for an opening and have to decide how many hits to get in while leaving enough stamina for a a Dodge or block.
>>343267657
>None of them are cheap
bullshit, im still upset about my first encounter with Seath
>>343268778
That was supposed to happen
>>343268376
OP, I'll admit, I might have been too bitchy, but yeah, this.
>>343268402
Is there some shortcut I accidentally took? I tried to just go through the tutorial naturally and read what was there. Got to boss, walked backwards spamming magic. Speaking of the first boss and cheap kills, you really aren't given any indication that the guy can just leap his fat ass up there. Like, at Taurus I kinda expected it so I didn't really think I could get away with higher ground, but "bosses will jump up to your level regardless of size" would've saved me a life, or at least damage on that one.
>>343268457
Maybe I've been oversimplifying it, but it seems redundant even before getting to the boss the first time, let alone after losing to it.
>>343268376
>Kick is unreliable,
That's true.
> jump and run being the same button is retarded,
That's not a big deal. You almost never need to run. And it's a realistic kind of run where you have to sprint. It's not a video game-y you can lead 10 feet with ease type.
> running requires you to claw it if you want to control the camera at the same time, you have to double claw if you want to run and change items at the same time,
I don't know what claw means. But I play like this:
>Adjust camera
>dash
>adjust camera
etc. The dashing is in a stragiht line and I know where I ensure the camera is setup before the run.
>not to mention that there is no reticle for magic at all.
They should get rid of lock ons entirely for the game. They aren't needed.
I'm going to try and go through both the positives and negatives of the game here.
>pros
1. Really amazing visuals and atmosphere, I love the look of the land. Seeing Anor Londo for the first time is amazing. The areas all feel very connected to each other and like they're all a part of one world as opposed to feeling like separate stages/levels.
2. The game has quite a few surprises, and while sometimes they may feel unfair they're never really anything you shouldn't have been able to deal with if you were being careful and observant.
3. The combat is interesting to me in how you are so paper thin half the time. It makes sense for a dude with a giant hammer to be able to destroy you in one or two hits. It's a nice challenge. It also feels like it would to actually fight someone as a normal humanoid in that you're going to need to avoid getting hit because you're weak and fleshy. You're not a complete tank because it makes no sense for you to be a complete tank when half of the other enemies are twice your size and have powerful weapons.
4. There isn't much guiding, you're truly a lost undead. It forces you to think and fight and try and lose.
>cons
1. The combat is hardly difficult. Besides the enemies that did some sort of element attack, pretty much every single boss and enemy can be beaten by just using a shield and circling around the target. I very rarely dodged in the game, and the rest of the combat was just holding up my shield as an enemy was about to attack and then either counter attacking or circling around them and backstabbing. I don't want to say it's button mashing, but it's not much strategy either. Just shielding, striking and waiting.
2. You probably won't figure out half of the shit and find half of the items if you aren't searching everywhere. While this can be fun, I'm not a fan of sweeping a whole area to find some random weapon.
3. There is an argument to be made for having to go back to a bonfire and redo things. But it gets tedious.
Oh, and while I didn't get hit with this myself, when I was at the gamestop talking about it, the guy at the counter told me "yeah, if you see a guy with all gold armor, he's not your friend. He ruined like 14 hours of gameplay."
Maybe he was just retarded, but that sure sounds like some cheap bullshit.
>>343268952
I think I see what happened. You came to the ledge above the boss, hit him with some magic and then he knocked you down, right? Whether you actually read it or not, immediately before the white fog was a message saying how to do a plunging attack, which is what it intended you to do there.
>>343269074
He betrays you, yeah, but a character lying to you is hardly bullshit, and he certainly doesn't "ruin 14 hours of gameplay", whatever the hell that means.
>>343268952
>Is there some shortcut I accidentally took?
Nope, you just didn't pay attention to much apparently. And you shouldn't be surprised that a boss with wings can reach you in a high place.
>>343268551
I know grinding is not essential per say, but it will most definitely put you at a disadvantage not doing so.
I liked to PvP a lot in Dark Souls 1 and having non-upgraded armor was a bigger handicap than you realize.
This meant that it was in your best interest to farm Chunks and Slabs as you could only buy up to Large Shards.
While Chunks were rather plentiful without farming, there are only 3-4 Slabs that can be obtained without farming the Darkwraiths.
The only other option is to use non-upgradeable armor which almost always has inferior stats or to use armor that upgrades with Twinkling Titanite, which you could buy infinite amounts ofwith one of the latest patches.
This doesn't even mention drop-only weapons like the Balder Side Sword, which most players will never get without farming.
>>343263172
What I loved about Dark Souls was how it just dropped you into this fascinating and dangerous world and not knowing what the fuck to do.That probably sounds strange, but it creates the real strong suit of the Souls series: exploration. Not knowing what is around the next corner, not knowing if you'll live or die or even if your going in the right way. I thought it was an amazing experience. It was so engrossing and immersive. Dark Souls made me feel like I was some Indiana Jones style archaeoligist, with new and interesting places to discover, items to find, enemies to fight. And it all ramped up, getting more and more fantastical as it went along, so it kept me interested the whole way through. Dark souls is was an amazing experience for me personaly. Definitely one of my favorite games of all time
>>343264751
You'd be dying less if you weren't button mashing.
>>343269028
>shieldbaby trying to discuss combat or difficulty
lmao
I wasn't wowed by another landing, I feel the mushroom pond had more character than the emptiness of that place. Even after the true Another lando is revealed it's just so clean and empty. Anor lando and blight town are two of my least favorite places. Even the catacombs felt more alive than AL
>>343263172
>people giving this troll serious answers when this was in his copypasta
>the combat is button mashing so bad it puts fighting games to shame
>>343269074
Thats a side quest and no, it won't fuck you over if you complete it.
>>343269361
And how do you try to play the game? The fact that using a shield is the most effective way to get through the game makes sense, and the fact that it makes the game simple and easy isn't my fault. Try actually making an argument instead of resorting to greentexting insults.
>>343269130
Okay, I remember now that it was there, but not a good chance to use it before boss. And, as a magic character, trying to attack with magic seemed like the sensible route. I mean, it is the main draw to the class.
>>343269237
Well, I don't know the extent of which it hinders your play, but he seemed pretty adamant about it fucking me over if I didn't kill him or just avoid him.
>>343269241
> wings
Okay, looking back at pics, yes, wings. But don't tell me fatass should be able to fly with those sticks for wings. No.
>>343269013
>You almost never need to run
You joking my man?
>>343268876
>unbeatable boss
ok, whatever shouldnt lose too many souls as there was a bonfire right before and if you had alot you would have used them
>getting cursed from unbeatable boss and impossible attack to dodge
thats it my main gripe, i ended up getting stuck in that area for 5 hours and several more hours in other areas because of my lack of health before i had to cheat and look up how to get rid of the curse to continue
>>343269273
HA
I did a second playthrough of a Wanderer, with a mix of thief/wanderer armor, bandit knife, short bow and falchion, and totally blew through everything. Man, it was EASY.
>>343269637
I dash occasionally in battle to get around big bosses or to get away. I dash in straight ways. But I don't do it in combat that often.
>>343269621
just stay behind him, stab his ass, and roll away when he starts flying up or he'll turn you into a living dildo.
I'm stuck on Smough and Ornstein with no humanity
>FeelsBadMan
>>343263172
What exactly is the appeal to this game? I get that it's hard and just because a game is hard doesn't make it bad. But just because a game is hard doesn't make it good either. The tutorial is trash, the game expects you to know stuff just because or via trial and error, which is a poor game design in almost any game, the combat is button mashing so bad it puts fighting games to shame, the controls are a bit clunky, most of the difficulty comes from cheap kills (didn't think to suddenly dodge when mid-combo? arrows up the ass!), getting sent so far back every time you die just adds redundancy, and most of the combat where you aren't button mashing is just waiting for an enemy to get close or put his shield down. What is the appeal?
>>343263172
>the combat is button mashing so bad
You are a grade A fucking idiot.
>>343269840
I mean, he's long dead now. Back peddle and magic spam.
>>343269908
Go to Depths and kill rats
>>343269908
what platform?
>>343269936
Honestly, most of the grunts legitimately can be beaten with button mashing or near button mashing and losing little to no health. Especially if you are a mage. If tapping shoot after every few steps kills, then that's what I'd do because it's the easiest thing. And even if waiting for them to attack isn't button mashing, it definitely isn't hard or thought provoking.
>>343269919
Haven't played it, did play a bit of Ninja Gaiden on NES and saw the AVGN review of it.
>>343263172
>didn't think to suddenly U-turn when entering the boss lair? arrows up the ass!
Thats kinda the point isnt it?
You ran into an environment and expected the game to treat you the way you wanted, with that typical entitled video game logic everyones got nowadays. The best part is you didnt have to take the death, it wasnt unfair, because if you had examined your environment just a bit, on the boss that will wait forever till you cross the bridge as a beginner boss should, you would have been rewarded with the knowledge of a ladder and two bs archer guys ready to fuck up your fight.
In that moment most people feel a sense of accomplishment, knowing that you actively disarmed this little trap that had been set up for you.
Even then nothing ever 0s out your chances for victory. Sure it would be hard a fuck, but you can still do damage and kill the boss with both archers up.
Im sorry, but if you dont expect to die with a "yolo" attitude and cant laugh at yourself when you do, dark souls just aint your game.
>>343270224
Where's the version that has a third panel of a ninja flipping heavy armor guy with a zweihander?
>>343270069
>backtrack all the way to the depths
>>343269614
>The fact that using a shield is the most effective way to get through the game
It's not; it's actually one of the weaker methods to avoiding damage.
Rolling has and still is king when it comes to avoiding damage, especially in Dark Souls 1.
Shields are only useful as a clutch for new players who haven't learned to roll through everything, or as a parry tool.
>>343269908
I killed em on my 5th attempt using a light armor melee build with quelags fury sword and didn't need any humanity or help. I kept the fat man in front of me at all times and using him as a shield to keep ornstein behind him. After ornstein went mega zord on my ass I used the broken pillars as cover and just waited for an opening to strike.
>>343269919
The single player experience is not about difficulty, that is only part of the main pillar of Dark Souls. It's not about combat either-that is more about the multiplayer experience desu. What Dark Souls is all about is exploration, at least it is to me. Some of the traps and "unfairness" helps add to the atmosphere. It makes the world seem genuinely dangerous, and it helps makes things very immersive, at least thats what it did for me, anyways.
![bnLEF1Q[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/or2raZC.gif "bnLEF1Q[1].gif")
>>343270295
>>343270224
>>343270373
It's actually a relatively quick trip.
You just run literally straight out of Anor Londo, take the shortcut from the top of Sen's to the bottom, and you're already at Andre.
Your other option is togit gud
>>343269961
pewpew pewpew
>>343269908
1. Put down summon sign
2. Grind while praying that anyone will be online at 2AM CST
>>343270224
I mean, I always ran with my shield up (not THAT bad). Most of the early level stuff doesn't really require examination nor encourage until stuff like said boss. Like yeah, there were archers, but so far before that they were right in front of your face. I got that far just fine without having to look behind me at all really because I just didn't have to.
>>343263172
You take it wrong anon. The whole game is in exploration and escaping death. The penalty for dying is here so you don't take each attempt lightly. Dark Souls is pretty balanced, and if you don't gimp yourself, nothing will kill you in one hit excepting the environment. You have plenty of techniques and ways to play to break an enemy's guard, and you mostly need to be patient and observe your environment.
It is not hard, it just doesn't take you for a moron.
>>343263172
I like the challenge, also I like being able to play as whatever I want. So many games put you into a certain archetype depending on what "class" you play. You wanna wield a big sword? Congrats you have to wear heavy armor! I hate that shit. I love being able to play however I want. Also I really love dark fantasy set in a medieval world.
>>343263172
Gamers have always prided themselves on skill. Even more-so if they don't have any real talents. I don't need to tell you that the average difficulty of games has dropped like a stone over the last 15 or so years. So when a game comes out that's hard (no matter what makes it hard), those types rejoice because they have a game they can brag about since normies won't ever get through it. This much is clear because, as you said, no one ever gives a reason for liking it other than the fact that it's hard (except when it's not, sometimes people will tell you how piss easy Dark Souls is), it doesn't hold your hand, and it's got nice atmosphere.
>>343270567FUCK YEA MOTHERFUCKER
>>343270953
You learned that it can happen, and that was a valuable lesson. Because it's going to happen again.
>>343270953
Why the fuck can't I remember what boss they're talking about?
Honestly, the souls game aren't hard in a way a game like battletoads or ninja gaiden are.
I prefer to qualify them as unforgiving, every mistake you make due to impatience, lack of observation or such will punish you, even at high level, the weakest enemies in the game can kill you if you're not paying attention or are too reckless.
What I like about those games is that in an era plagued with games full of hand holding or barely no gameplay at the expense of "muh cinematic experience", Dark Souls is a throwback to the simpler days of gaming where most of the focus is on gameplay and overcoming challenging encounters and all that with a minimalistic approach to its storytelling (no 5 min cutscenes of narration or exposition, the story is mostly told through the environments and items).
Whereas most modern AAA games take the player for a retard and drown you with invasive and boring tutorials, Dark Souls is like: "aight familia, here are the controls and there's a prompt on your character screen to see what each stat does, good luck".
>>343263172
OP, you are a clear case of git gud.
Like it or don't, I don't give a fuck. Got my 1k hours, you keep playing whatever other shit game gets you off.
>>343273309
>unforgiving
>infinite lives, up to 20 healing items
>checkpoints everywhere
>the biggest punishment is having to spend a minute getting back to the boss
>summon signs everywhere
If the games were unforgiving nobody would play them because casuals hate unforgiving games.
>>343269640
Rare Ring of Sacrifice you moron.
>>343273182
he's the leader of the burg, you know him well
he's finally back to get plunge attacked
>>343273550
Oh, right. Shit I completely forgot about that guy.
>>343267657
>None of them are cheap
I love me some Dark Souls, but
>Seathe first encounter
>Bridge Wyvern bullshit
>Bed of Bullshit
>>343269621
That gamestop guy is a fucking retard don't listen to him.
>>343273793
>>Seathe first encounter
That's not even a fight. It's more a story cutscene. You can't win it.
>>Bridge Wyvern bullshit
Kinda. The execution wasn't as good as the Wyvern from Demon Souls.
>>343273793
>>Seathe first encounter
Three posts up.
>>343274185
yeah, and?
>>343275556
And it totally eliminates all bad outcomes possible from Seath's first encounter dumb dumb.
>>343263172
>combat is button mashing so bad it puts fighting games to shame
Kill yourself
>>343276659
the problem isnt that seathes first encounter kills you, the problem is that it kills you in a way that you cant tell its impossible to win and you cant get your souls back unless you manage to get back to the boss room. you dont equip a ring of sacrifice for every boss encounter do you?
>>343265127
>Second boss with the archers behind you
You should notice you're being shot at and turn around, not our fault you're blind and deaf
> through up to the second boss and beyond, button mashing to hell.
If you actually played the game you'd know about stamina and enemy guards
> Then what is the point at all?
The point of the game isn't to be hard you retard, that's just the marketing and internet memes
You already have yourself away as a scrub when you said the fighting games were about button mashing
>>343276996
>walk into room
>try to hit seath
>cant hit him
>cant even get near him
>shoot arrows
>no damage
>getting cursed too
At this point it isn't hard to figure you can't kill him.
>>343264751
>This game gives you a paper thin character against a boss/miniboss that will basically get a guaranteed kill or two.
That is completely wrong.
t. 12 vit first playthrough character
>>343271762
>no one ever gives a reason for liking it other than the fact that it's hard (except when it's not, sometimes people will tell you how piss easy Dark Souls is), it doesn't hold your hand, and it's got nice atmosphere.
Why do you even come here if you can't read? Do you just look at the funny pictures?
>>343263172
there is only 1 major appeal to this series that everyone will deny.
the appeal of this game comes from how it gives casuals the illusion of being harcore(by inflating the punishment from veryyyy simple gameplay patterns and practices)
they hit gold because they were able to make all these casuals think they are so hardcore for progressing and beating this very easy and simple game.
>>343268952
>you really aren't given any indication that the guy can just leap his fat ass up there.
How the fuck do you think he got up there in the first place? You complain there is no oppurtunities for plunging attacks, then complain you didn't utilize the plunging attack at the same time.
>>343273309
>even at high level, the weakest enemies in the game can kill you if you're not paying attention or are too reckless.
Hey f@m
>>343263172
>the game expects you to know stuff just because or via trial and error
there is a game manual, writing on the ground and the game UI explains you each stat
>the combat is button mashing so bad it puts fighting games to shame
r1 r1 r1 doesn't work for long
unless you count dodging and counter as button mashing
>the controls are a bit clunky
I give you that, it's fixed in dark souls 3
>most of the difficulty comes from cheap kills
it's the game, it expect you to be careful and watch out for ambuses
>didn't think to suddenly U-turn when entering the boss lair? arrows up the ass!
arrows that tells you about the snipers, that makes you search for a ladder, that gives you the higher ground on the taurus demon, that reminds you that you can give him the same aerial attack as the asylum demon
intelligent level design
>getting sent so far back every time you die just adds redundancy
there is literally five minutes between each bonfire
>most of the combat where you aren't button mashing is just waiting for an enemy to get close or put his shield down
you're angry when you button mash, you're angry when you wait, next you're going to be angry about parrying?
foward+r1 kicks the shield, the signs are telling you that
you are objectively bad at enjoying video games
>>343263172
I honestly have no explnation for why, I just fucking love this game. It's so much fun. I'm a nintendofag too, all the games I play are nice and easy and FUN, but this one is just the shit
>>343266443
>This entire thread screams bait, but retard Soulsfags like me fall for it every time.
i'm guilty of that
>>343267728
>claims button mashing
>explains the opposite of button mashing
Ah, a retard.
I loved Dark Souls. It's probably my favorite game. I've trivialized it by now, platinumed it, and can probably play it with my eyes closed.
The only part I found too punishing is the crude placement of the bonfire in Sen's Fortress. If you don't know where it is during your first playthrough and you miss it, you're in a shitting situation
>>343263172
Well cool you've formed an opinion on it. Even if it differs from others it'd right because it's a subjective concept of your own enjoyment only. Now that's out the way
Gg git gud faggot
Will this be the only way we're gonna have Dark Souls 1 threads these days
dont be stupid
>>343263172
its not hard. the pve is pretty much broken with how easy it is to backstab and chain backstab. If you can't parry (lol), just roll through attacks without locking on and turn around for an immediate backstab. then chain backstab.
das1 pve is fucking broken.
>>343280097
there's not a single game you can't cheese your way through sp...
souls series is an esoteric series. you are purely a mouth-breathing pleb if you cannot enjoy them
>>343278079
i wish this was a webm in sily smooth 60 fps
>>343263589
stop playing the game and go play something else
>>343263679
>/b/ is full of bad people and it hurts muh feelings u guis lets talk about those video games
>>343264751
>actual reason for liking
You're also not giving actual reasons for disliking it since your opinions are wrong and clearly the result of some impulsive retard that wants instant gratification, that's also why you want other people to make you like the game as if someone injecting their own subjecting opinions will change your personal experience.
There's bait and there's being a retard. Even if you're baiting you're still a retard.
