>he thinks this isn't 3D
>>343064497
The only 3D thing about it is its perspective. It plays like a 2D top-down shooter
At least Doom's z-clipping feature tracked projectiles in 3D so you could run under them. Can't do that in Wolfenstein.
>>343064686
It would be a pretty shitty top-down shooter, since to accurately replicate it you'd need to make the 2D viewpoint match the 3D viewpoint. The only way to do that would be to make a cone of vision that gets blocked out by walls.
>>343064924
there are games that do that though
like sword of stars: the pit
>>343064497
>Wall-portrait of Hitler
>in an army base
>>343065161
>what was the SS
You can only move in two dimensions.
>left/right
>back/forward
Therefore it's a 2D game.
>>343065415
You can also only move in 2 dimensions in real life, does that make real life 2D?
>>343065510
I can move in 4 dimensions. Maybe don't be such a scrub
>>343064497
It's not. Motion is only on an x and y axis and even the models are flat sprites.
>>343065510
no in real life you can jump
>>343064497
It's not, the hardware the game ran on wasn't physically capable of rendering 3D
>>343065739
But it's clearly rendering 3D. It's just using a different method
>>343065739
the hardware this game ran on wasn't capable of rendering 3D either, anon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF_a6qMeWP8
Are you gonna tell me it's not 3D either?
>>343065586
What if you have a billboarded polygonal game without y movement then? Is that not 3D? What if I switch from orthogonal to perspective projection in a 2D game? Does that make it 3D?
>>343065510
up/down syndrome
>>343065991
That is definitely not 3D.It's 2.5D :^)
>>343065991
Better yet, the fucking Gameboy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-y7fk8mvH4
In particular 1:44.
Look at that totally-not-3D, guys.
Wolfenstein 3D in not 3D because it uses raycasting to render the "walls"
Defining what's 2D and what's 3D is difficult since at the end of the day all games are represented in a 2D plane (the screen) and most do represent height, width and depth in some measure, even if it isn't relevant for the gameplay.
Are "2D" beat em ups in which you can move to the left, right, forwards, backwards and jump (like Golden Axe) 3D?
Is Super Mario World, a game in which you can move left, right, jump, and change the depth in which your character is located through those fences in the castle stages 3D?
What if you couldn't change depth?
Is Street Fighter 2 a 3D game? It still has a representation of 3 dimensions, even if you can only act in 2. The same thing happens in Wolfenstein 3D. You can only move, shoot and generally interact in 2 dimensions. Everything the game does, logicwise, is in 2 dimensions. Yet the game uses height for aesthetic purposes, like Street Fighter 2 uses depth for the same reason.
>>343064497
It's not true 3D.
As in, it's 2D planes skewed at an angle. Similar to Mode 7.
Wolfenstein has no Z axis. You can't place objects over other objects, because it's not actual 3D.
>>343066807
okay, you can argue that wolf3d isn't 3d, that's fine, but if you're arguing that the walls aren't walls then you are legit retarded
Who gives a shit what it is, no matter what, the game isn't going to change.
>>343067387
if you don't care then why did you bother posting in this thread?
>>343067049
>Are "2D" beat em ups in which you can move to the left, right, forwards, backwards and jump (like Golden Axe) 3D?
No, the levels are made of tiles in a 2D space.
>Is Super Mario World, a game in which you can move left, right, jump, and change the depth in which your character is located through those fences in the castle stages 3D?
No, the levels are made of tiles in a 2D space.
>What if you couldn't change depth?
The depth is a trick.
>Is Street Fighter 2 a 3D game? It still has a representation of 3 dimensions, even if you can only act in 2.
No, the levels are made of tiles in a 2D space.
>The same thing happens in Wolfenstein 3D. You can only move, shoot and generally interact in 2 dimensions. Everything the game does, logicwise, is in 2 dimensions.
Yes, it's a 2D game. The world is made of tiles in a 2D space. It's referred to as 2.5D because it's a 3D-esque projection of that 2D map.
>Yet the game uses height for aesthetic purposes, like Street Fighter 2 uses depth for the same reason.
No, not at all like that.
>>343067435
Cause this thread is fucking dumb
>>343065161
they never tried to be accurate anon, it's full of badly translated German and stuff in a campfy game about the Nazis doing occult magicks
>>343065415
Does that make racing games 2D too? Well, unless you can get some hangtime
>>343067813
>Are "2D" beat em ups in which you can move to the left, right, forwards, backwards and jump (like Golden Axe) 3D?
>No, the levels are made of tiles in a 2D space.
It doesn't matter how the scenery is drawn, there are three dimentions.
Let's say you are in depth x, and there is an enemy in a futher depth, x-2. You jump, and for a moment you seem to next to each other. But if any of you try to hit each other, you will miss, since even though it seems you could do it because of the projection, you have different depths and heights and aren't actually next to each other.
This is very different from a game like My Hero, another sidescrolling beat em up where you couldn't change depth.
I'd argue game logic is much more important than rendering technology. Even if the later is the thing that is heavily marketed, and the one that makes headlines. "Quake, the first ever real 3D doomlike". Polygons are great, and a much more efficient way to render geometrical transformations (rotation, translation, scale) BUT marketing aside game logic, or mechanics, are much more important when you are trying to define games.
You could make an exact clone of Golden Axe with polygons and it would play the same. Yet, if you change the number of dimensions you can move in the game it changes completely.
>>343069219
In the way video games uses the therm 2D and 3D are different from the literal meaning, is just to refer if a game draws polygons or not.
>>343065510
>east and west
>north and south
>up and down (jumping or hill/cliff)
>time
We can move in 4 dimensions faglord
>>343069593
>dude we can move freely throughout time
No, time is independent of you.
It's a constant.
You don't decide where it moves, or how it moves. It just moves, and doesn't stop.
>>343069373
That what publishers and magazines pushed because graphics were the easiest way to sell video games.
We should not fall for their tricks and use language the way it suits us.
>>343069754
we have to go in autistic detail to declare if a game is 3D or not, so I rather let it be as it is.
>>343069725
General Relativity.
>>343069952
>dude let me just say the name of a theory haha
Nice, good job proving my point as well.
>>343070114
Sorry, Time Dilation. :^)
>>343070326
Still doesn't argue with anything made in my statement.
>>343070408
Except you can decide how fast it goes via different speeds.
>>343070513
>It's a constant.
>You don't decide where it moves, or how it moves. It just moves, and doesn't stop.
>>343070550
You can still change your movement in it.
Sure its limited, but you can still do it.
>gray background
>dark cyan frame
>blue HUD
why was UI design so shit, /v/?
>>343069373
All modern 2D games draw polygons, and a lot of them use all three dimensions for sorting. Does that mean they're converted to 3D games when you switch projection matrices?
>>343069219
That's not how it works. Golden Axe has 2D sprites on a 2D map. The sprites can only move on X and Y. The map is drawn in a way that gives the appearance of depth. Certain map tiles have properties that affect how the player can move. Any jumping or climbing is achieved by trickery, there is no Z axis involved.
If there was a 3D remake it would be designed completely differently.
>>343070684
No, you can't change your movement in it.
You are a part of time, and both are the same.
If you speed up time (in some far away star system, relative to Earth), it's still the same ordinary time for you. You don't perceive time moving faster.
Only people on Earth perceive that you have moved through time faster/slower.
But for you, and for the people on Earth, time is the exact same experience, and you yourself never actually changed or controlled your movement through time, but rather the perception of time.
Also, the only things that will actually make these changes are gravity, and that is something that humans have absolutely no control over, nor do they have any understanding of what it is.
>>343070921
Fair enough.
All games are 2D.
Even the "3D" ones end up being projected into 2D.
>>343065161
could be worse
>>343071527
Except VR
>>343068034MEIN LEBEN
>>343064686
Except that flying enemies had infinite height in the original/vanilla ports, fuck that shit
So is Legend of Zelda ALtrP or Link's Awakening 2d or 3d? They both have height properties and you jump over enemies and projectiles.
>>343072165
VR games are still projected in 2D, but with one image for each eye.
>>343065012
Is that game any good?
>>343064497
Its a 2D game that uses X and Z instead of X and Y.
>>343072706
Yes, just like how human vision works.
>>343072967
Also, VR isn't a flat projection.
>>343069593
Time isnt a thing anon. You fail see me after class.
I really hope these 2d vs 3d threads become a regular occurrence.
If they do I might just have to force your ugly face into a 2d projection, mother fucker!
>>343065161
>hitler in a mech suit
>>343064497
It may not be 3D in terms of movement, but it is 3D in terms of how you perceive the world. Which is why it was (and is) cited as one of the first 3D games.
The world is 3d but none of the objects have poly dimensions so its a 2.5d game
>>343073919
That's like saying every modern 2D game is 2.5D since it uses polygons
>>343072898
no idea, I never played it
it was just the only example of a top-down game with a limited fov that I could think of
I'm sure there's more games that do it. Teleglitch kinda does it too in a way, but only per room
>>343074762
It's important to differentiate between game mechanics and rendering.
>>343070921
>he can't control gravity
What a faglord.
