Mario 64 and Mario Sunshine are exploration adventures.
Mario Galaxy and Mario Galaxy 2 are linear, easy puzzle games for young children.
It's true they are very popular but have you heard the term 'idiot masses'? Most people only like these games because reviewers told them to, you included.
Have some independent thought for once and see how mediocre these games are.
Another thing about this is the fans of these games know this to be true and shut up like clams whever they're called out on it, so expect this thread to be ignored.
>>343062185
>shut up like clams
It's as I thought.
Your silence is just confirming what I said.
Come on you mindless sheep. How can you defend your precious game?
N64 was the peak of Nintendo. Everybody knows this
Is the Mario Galaxy fanbase so cancerous that they can't even muster a single argument against what I said?
>>343063132
Sadly they don't. The idiot masses like Mario Galaxy because reviewers told them to.
As long as they're around to rave about this shitty series Nintendo won't make a Mario game of quality.
>>343061951
Yes because A to B in Mario 64 took so much brain power.I'm sick of Wii kiddies shitting on 64 too
>>343063132
no gamecube was
>>343063414
A to B could have been reached in any number of ways. It was an adventure.
In Galaxy it's a walk down a straight path.
Mario Galaxy is easily one of the most overrated games of all time and people need to know it instead of lapping it up like idiots.
>>343063581
but it's fun
Post if you think Galaxy is overrated.
>>343063812
You think walking down straight paths with ZERO challenge is fun?
It isn't an adventure.
>>343061951
>comparing even mario 64 to super mario sunshine
what is wrong with you
>>343061951
Banjo-Kazooie > Mario 64
>>343063930
I'm guessing you're not a big fan of Crash Bandicoot either
>>343063132
It's close, but Mario and Zelda were much better on 64. Cube had metroid prime and a better smash tho
>>343063935
They're both good 3D Mario games.
>>343063132
You mean the gamecube
The problem with the open design, more specifically with Mario 64, was that some missions could be cleared in literally seconds while others took much longer. Mario Sunshine improved the design a bit but you still had that variance.
Galaxy and the 3D games at least make the levels all about equal, even if they might be too short for longtime fans.
>>343063957
Banjo-Kazooie > Mario 64 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Galaxy
>>343063980
At least it doesn't masquerade as a 3D Mario, like Galaxy does.
>>343064223
>It's not a 3D Mario game because it doesn't play exactly the same as the previous games
You sound pretty retarded, you know that?
>>343061951
>tfw shit like 3D World is now the norm and we'll never get a game like Mario 64 again
I prefer 64 and Sunshine, but there's nothing wrong with being a linear 3D adventure and owning that. If you can quantify why one approach is better than the other, ok, otherwise you're just stating your opinion as fact. Are the 2D Marios objectively bad because they're linear and not Metroidvanias?
It's a shame that the exploration and nonlinearity of the first two was cut, but it was made up for in the abundance of segments that thought way outside the box and were nothing like what anyone he seen before. If you can just accept that this is less about exploration and more about crazy, off-the-wall approaches to platforming, Galaxy is good in its own right.
I've never read a single review of Galaxy, by the way.
>>343064223
By this retarded logic, Mario 64 masquerades itself as a mario game when all previous 2d games were different. In fact by this logic, SMG is a actually a return to form
>>343064403
So you probably think 3D Land/World are 3D Mario games too?
Everyone knows they're not and neither is Galaxy. 3D Mario is a game-style, not graphics/presentation.
You're the retard.
>>343064748
If you believe in these delusional rantings you're spewing then honestly it's just sad.
I hope for your sake that you're trolling, anon.
Jak 1 did the 3D adventure/platforming genre best. And I admire how they did it all in one seemless world too.
>>343064675
>If you can just accept that this is less about exploration and more about crazy, off-the-wall approaches to platforming, Galaxy is good in its own right.
Possibly, but I hold exploration/adventure in higher regard. And because that's what 3D Mario used to be I still think it is the true Mario style.
>>343063132
>>343063493
>>343064049
SNES and it's not even close. N64 was a step down and SM64 isn't even as good as SMW
Eh i tend to agree galaxy and galaxy 2 are playable and nice whn bored but not my first choice for entertainment by A long ahot
>>343064872
>disagree with my opinion
>just so tragic, plz get help
I'm not 'spewing' anything, just my take on the Mario franchise.
>Galaxy and 3D World play just like the former sidescrollers
>not real 3D Mario
>>343061951
>It's true they are very popular but have you heard the term 'idiot masses'?
>>343064209
The open design in 64 is what makes it good to me, to be honest.
We can complete some stars in seconds because we know where they are and how to get them, and they give us the chance of choosing how to get them.
They want you to explore in 64. In the first mission in Bob-Omb Battlefield you will find the star behind the Chomp gate in your way to the mountain top, and you will probably stop to try to get it. It's not the mission you're doing, but the star is there, so you might as well take it.
Sunshine has great level design and controls, but made the "open levels" feel worse, by limiting a lot of the suns to their specific mission.
Galaxy and 3D World are races to the flag at the end if the level. That doesn't mean those games are bad, they even feel more like the original, but they lost what I liked about 64.
>>343065272
Those 'former sidescrollers' were 2D, so of course Galaxy/3D World aren't real 3D Mario
>>343065652
>aren't real 3D Mario
are you doing this to bother people? just because they aren't exploration based doesn't mean they aren't "real" 3D Mario
>>343065559
>That doesn't mean those games are bad, they even feel more like the original, but they lost what I liked about 64.
This.
It would be okay but these games are no where near as challanging as classic Mario so you get no sense of accomplishment
>>343061951
Mario 64 is the pillar on which all 3D platforming stands upon. It's designs have been influencing games even being made today. Don't get mad at it that you had to watch it on youtube or play it emulated because your family was a sony station family. They are the pinnacle of gaming.
>>343063132
SNES was the Golden Age. N64 is for muh 90s nostalgiafags, with the exception of Mario 64 and OOT. Smash and Mario Party were fun games, and faggots pretend 64 is the best kart game when in reality it existed to propel the series forward.
Gamecube had more solid titles than 64 but Prime and Melee were the biggest things to come from it.
>>343065805
'Real 3D' doesn't refer to graphics or the dimensions in a game. It means 'real Mario games that are 3D'. Mario Tennis is 3D Mario but you wouldn't call it that because it implies adventure/exploration.
'3D Mario' is like a term coined by Mario 64. Games that deviate from it (like Galaxy) are not 3D Mario despite having three dimensions.
>>343066075
So it means that to you?
To me 3D Mario is is controlling Mario in a 3D space while platforming with his various moves to get to the end of a level or to collect a star.
>>343066420
Not that anon, but it's the same as calling Color Splash "not a Paper Mario" when there's officialy more non-RPG Paper Mario games than RPG.
A game is defined by its gameplay and exploration is gameplay.
The problem with 64 and Sunshine is that they give you all of these moves and this big-ass world, but you only ever take the same goddamn paths to each Star.
Say what you will about Galaxy and 3DL/W, but at least every Star or level is a new experience.
>>343066420
I can understand why someone might call Galaxy a 3D Mario as it kind of resembles it with the controls.
But it's more like a linear, 3D World type game which is more similar to 2D.
If Nintendo acknowledged these new games as spin-offs I would be okay with it. But they seem to be replacing true 3D Mario with them which I resent.
Also they haven't brought out a true (IMO) 3D Mario game since Sunshine and I'm getting a bit annoyed that they're neglecting this great series.
If Yooka-Laylee is a success they might revisit this kind of game.
>>343066014
MK64 was arguably worse than SMK in every way except that it was actually 3D.
There. I said it.
>>343066075
>real Mario games that are 3D
So that would be the Galaxy games, because real Mario games have linear levels.
>>343066894
>this nigger
SMK was great but is a mess to nowadays standars, while MK64 is still bearable
>64 was open "world" hub and mostly open world areas apart from boss levels and some select areas.
>Sunshine was a open city hub, locked off with upgrades. Levels are open but make more use of guiding to target and 64 style platformer special levels that are linear.
>Galaxy has mostly linear with some open levels that are locked out by stars and more story progression
>Galaxy 2 has a literal open world hub.
>>343066975
>because real Mario games have linear levels.
Not 3D Mario games, which was pioneered by Mario 64.
They're very different to the 2D games
>a franchise must play exactly the same in 3D as it did in 2D
>it cannot take advantage of the extra dimension in order to expand on gameplay while retaining the same general tone
You fuckers are genuinely retarded and your bullshit line of thinking is why Sonic failed so badly while Mario had what's nearly universally considered the best 2D to 3D transition in history.
>the "Galaxy and 3D World aren't REAL 3D Mario games!" meme
Sorry to burst your autistic bubble, but they are just as much 3D Mario games as 64 and Sunshine. "3D Mario" literally just refers to any mainline Mario game where you control him in 3D space. Just because you want to force your own definition doesn't make it true.
I'm sorry if you're butthurt that Nintendo tried a different direction for the series, but both styles are fine and have their own merits. They're all good games in their own way.
>>343065652
>muh graphix mutha fucka
OP here. I wouldn't mind the Galaxy games, I think they're a solid 6/10.
But I would like them to be released alongside the Mario 64 series.
It seems to have REPLACED and killed off that series. And it seems Nintendo won't make another Mario 64 because of this, therefore I resent Galaxy
>>343066975
>because real Mario games have linear levels.
64 and Sunshine had linear levels and Sunshine had linear quest completion order than 64's freedom (i.e. doing the last star than the second one in Bob-omb Battlefield)
I still don't understand why people are obsessed with openness, and exploration in games.
There's a reason books are the way they are and Choose your Own Adventure books, although neat, are considered niche.
>>343067876
>an interactive medium should be treated the exact same was an a non-interactive medium
No, fuck off. That's just as retarded as wanting games to be the same as movies or TV shows.
>>343061951
none compare to 2D mario so it doesn't even matter. 3D mario is mediocre in general and always has been
I don't understand how Galaxy is any different than 64. If anything, Sunshine should be the redheaded stepchild considering how much FLUDD trivialized the platforming. The only thing that help the game back was the motion control gimmicks, one of the best games of last gen IMO.
>>343061951
here's your problem
>linear = bad
>>343068118
> all games should be a huge sand box for me to get lost in my autism!
No, fuck you, not all games benefit from openness or non-linearity, and those two are rarely done right.
>>343063235
>>343061951
How am I supposed to argue against your terribly flawed memory of what playing Sunshine is like
>>343068292
>anything more open than a corridor simulator is a huge autistic sand box
>>343061951
Jesus christ you're retarded.
>>343068118
>non open world means cinematic
just stop anon
>>343068432
Nice argument
What the fuck am I witnessing. Is a summerfag having a mental breakdown?
>>343068401
I just don't understand exploration fags, the majority of the games with exploration only have it to make the game easier if you deviate because you end up with lots of items, good equips or over leveled because of the trouble, they add nothing.
>>343068292
>Immediately jump to sandbox strawman
Boy, do you faggots ever make reasonable arguments without jumping to extremes?
>>343068570
>Mario Galaxy is overrated and deviates from the roots of what a 3D Mario is
What's not to get?
Both galaxy games have better level designthan either sunshine or 64, and glaxy 2 is harder than 64. Sunshine is only hard if you're trying to collect all those shitty filler blue coins.
>>343068959
Just by the way you've worded thinga and replied to yourself countless times is the weirdest thing I'vee seen on /v/ aince the thread about the kid asking about yoshi's eggs and how they smell.
Fucking children these days, always seeking attention.
i like all the 3d mario games a lot
>you must be 18+ years of age to post here
>>343068959
>Mario spends years establishing itself as a largely straightforward platform franchise with a focus on clearing specific obstacles to reach a goal
>Mario 64 tweaks this formula to compensate for a new dimension and hardware limitations to add for the ability to reuse levels
>technology improves and Nintendo is finally able to make a 3D Mario more in the vein of the old ones
>Nuh-uh, This isn't a real Mario game! 64 is the only real Mario game ever!
Your bitching won't make those 97 metacritic scores go away anytime soon
>>343069165
>replied to yourself countless times
Did that once.
Don't be too weirded out, bro. It's just my opinions.
Mario 64, Sunshine and Skyward Sword all suffer from trying to play like Zelda and Mario at the same time, yet they fall short with both. They're not fun Zelda games since the areas are so small and disjointed from each other (yet each is still recycled for 8 stars worth). They're not fun Mario games since you can just walk past any obstacle and many stars are just tedious collectathons.
Hell Skyward Sword even looks more like a Mario game than a Zelda game
>>343068959
>roots of what a 3D Mario is
Which is what exactly? Why are you being so vague?
>>343068695
If you have a goal without a clearly defined linear path to achieve that goal, it invites the player to find their own method of achieving the goal, which makes them feel like they accomplished more than just following a linear path.
Again, games are interactive mediums. If you want a book or movie then read a book or watch a movie. The greatest thing about video games is the interactivity. It's why Mario 64 succeeded and 3D Sonic games have consistently failed, because the latter has always been excessively linear and automated.
>>343069495
>3D Sonic games have consistently failed
The terrible, forced stories and OCs?
>>343069447
Mario 64.
The differences are plain to see for anyone whose played that game and Galaxy
>>343069440
the fuck are you even talking about bro
>>343062437
>>343062615
>>343062185
>getting this ass blasted that no one is taking your bait
>>343069631
Grew up on 64
Galaxy was better for having much more variety to its gameplay.
>>343061951
So you are saying that 2D Jumpshit Mario is superior?
Go smash some bricks with your head, you lobotomised shitsucker.
Mario 64 and Sunshine were the only Marios that didn't suck shitdick.
>>343069631
I'm still not following. You jump into paintings instead of shooting across space? Can you just make a point so I can refute it already?
>>343069495
Sonic Generations was good tho
>>343069569
Even in games without those, the gameplay has been consistently mediocre for the aforementioned reasons. The only times they succeeded were with the boost games, where they acknowledged the linearity/automation and built around it, rather than using them as crutches for their continued inability to properly design levels in 3D space.
>nintendo games are easy and for babies
I beat Assassins Creed Unity in three days with some fucking around
I didnt beat Super Mario Bros 3 in 20 years
>>343061951
cool thread OP next time do some independent research and realize Mario64 was literally the best selling 3D mario game. Sunshine, Galaxy, and Galaxy 2 all sold worse than it.
this should speak louder than anything for Nintendo considering the Wii sold ten times better than the n64.
Thank fuck Iwata was dead that dumb nigger didn't know how to do math.
>>343069875
>nintendo games are easy and for babies
When people say this, they're referring to modern Nintendo games, starting with the GameCube to a lesser degree but being highly present with the Wii and Wii U.
so whats the best level/world in each 3D game?
>>343069756
You can scale a mountain by climbing it, teleporting or shooting through a cannon. Or you can try another star.
In Galaxy you follow the stepping stones to get from point A to B. Instead of adventuring you solve simple puzzles.
>>343069303
>metacritic
>>343070001
Mario 3d world has harder levels than 64. Also dk tropical freeze.
thanks op. finally someone understands. galaxy.....i FINALLY forced myself to play it this year. while its OK, you get bored halfway through, seriously.
the lack of movement options is rediculous, longjump, spin jump, a weak sideways jump, and thats all. mario is slow, still, and its just....lame. the games core is solid, but its just not as fun as zipping around in 64, mastering spinjumps and shit in sunshine, ect. GALAXY IS BORING AND OVERRATED.
>>343070726
This
>>343070129
Galaxy has both linear and open levels that give you multiple routes to explore, like Beehive Galaxy.
>>343061951
Mario 64 is a 3D collecathon platformer, and arguably the king of that subgenre. It's comparable to games like Banjo, Jak and Spyro in terms of its design. Sunshine is in that same boat, but leans even more heavily towards the exploration end to the point where there's very little proper platforming in the main sections of the game.
The Galaxy duology and 3D World are linear platformers, more closely connected to games like the classic Mario titles, Crash Bandicoot and the 3D Sonics (not in quality, in how they're structured). They narrow in on level variety and core platforming instead of being hybrid adventure games.
They're two completely different flavors of 3D platformers, and there's nothing wrong with either. Linearity isn't inherently a bad thing, despite what the recent open world trend would have you believe, and the Galaxy games are proof of that.
And not only are all the Mario titles sans-Lost Levels easy as piss but the difficult missions in the recent titles are far tougher than anything in 64, what the fuck are you going on about there? Sunshine does have more frustrating segments than any other Mario title but that's more due to broken controls in the boat/pachinko segments and tedious shit like getting to the poison river mission, not the actual difficulty curve of the game.
>>343070726
Marioo in galaxy can do everything he could do in 64. Its just that he is slower to compensate for the level design. Also theres alot you can do with that spin jump.
>>343070709
One game =/= generalized trend
>>343061951
Mario 64, Sunshine, and Galaxy 1+2 all follow the same formula.
>>343071005
They're tiny and nowhere near as big as Bomb-omb Battlefield
>>343071529
Is being big necessarily a good thing? Theres not much going on in that level.
>>343071651
At least you can explore it and discover things like the gate.
In Galaxy there's zero exploration. It's crap compared to Mario 64
>>343071785
Exploration is not the focus of galaxy nor mario in general. Just cause 64 experimented ith exploration, doesn't mean all games mwust follow suit. And you really dont have to explore to find the gate, its pretty easy to come across.
There will never be another good 3D Mario.
And 2D won't be good until they drop the "wah wah" noise and make a sequel to SM3.
Unless they fuck it up like Sonic 4, but I have to think Super Mario Bros. 4 has more promise than that junk.
>>343072281
Did you just forget about Super Mario World?
>>343070128
Tied between Tick Tock Clock and Tiny Huge Island for me, unique themes and gimmicks
Hotel Delfino, perfect atmosphere and I love hotel levels
Toy Time Galaxy, good level theme and music
Throwback Galaxy (it's not original but I loved seeing Whomps Fortress remastered)
>>343072281
Super Mario World is known as Super Mario Bros 4 in Japan
>>343072389
Fuck you, World was great and all but they've beaten that formula into the ground with the ironically named "New" series. I want Super Mario 4.
>>343072701
The 'New' series is also shit, in fact it's even worse than Galaxy.
They need to make Mario World 2 on the SNES engine, a bit like Mega Man 9 for NES
>>343061951
Yeeeeah, I hate to say it, but the galaxies are extremely linear.
>>343063132
The wii was
>>343072429
>google Tick Tock Clock to remind myself about the level
>http://www.mariowiki.com/Tick_Tock_Clock
>star names written in Japanese
It feels really weird seeing things related to Mario written in Japanese, largely due to the knowledge that Japanese is its language of origin. I'm used to looking at anime-related stuff, posts from random people on the internet, and the occasional news article. Mario is completely different from the Japanese world that I'm used to.
>this entire thread
>>343076815
Don't bump faggot. If there is nothing to say then let the thread die.
>>343061951
>>343065559
>yfw Ground Zeroes and Super Mario 64 have the same game design philosophy
>>343070001
>When people say this, they're referring to modern Nintendo games, starting with the GameCube to a lesser degree but being highly present with the Wii and Wii U.
Nintendo's modern games frequently get criticised for their difficulty though. They haven't gotten any easier, in fact Nintendo games relatively are more challenging because AAA games have became idiot proof.
>>343063957
Banjo Kazooie is an adventure game, not a platformer
Thoughts for the next games in the series?
I expect them to make a bit of a hybrid game to replace the New series and 3D Land/World. Where you'll have 2D levels, then occasional auto-runner 3D segments. An expanded Mario Maker will probably happen too.
I don't see a Mario 128, Under Two Shine Sprites, or a Galaxy 3, happening. Maybe they'll expand upon Splatoon's single-player for the sequel, and that will become "3D Mario", as it already had that feel to me.
>>343070001
Yeah F-Zero GX and the newer Donkey Kong Country's are easy as hell
>>343081584
>F-Zero GX
One exception doesn't prove him wrong.
>the newer Donkey Kong Country's are easy as hell
They are compared with the SNES games.
