>"Wow this game was hard!"
>They're playing a turnbased JRPG
>The difficulty is just extra grinding
>"Wow this game was hard!"
>They're playing Dark Souls
>The difficulty is just memorization
>>343056082
Memorization is an important skill in real life.
Grinding is just mashing a button to kill trash until you see numbers go up so you can kill the bigger trash.
>>343056319
Well I guess patience is also a really important skill in real life.
>>343056319
>Applying real life """""""skills""""""" to games
Memorization is just as shallow of a game mechanic, if not more so.
>>343057205
>more so
A matching card game has more depth than the average jrpg.
>>343057576
You're painfully wrong, but that's a good example of just how basic and uninteresting all those """""""hard""""""" memorization games are.
>>343056319
>memorizing in real life is important
>but working hard doing the same boring activity isn't
Wat
>>343057828
>Killing the same enemies over and over
"Working hard."
>>343057894
Grinding for hours at a time isn't just a gaming term you idiot. Grinding in anything means pushing through a boring and/or difficult objective
>>343057894
>put rubber band on controller+autocombat
>working hard
>>343056082
>anyone describes anything using the word "Dark-Souls like" or "Dark-soulsian" when its remotely hard or has some sort of supply loss threat when dying.
I can respect the series well enough, it has a lot of cool design and that deep lore people always like in games like these, but the number of people that think this series was in some way revolutionary are retarded.
>>343057894
>Do something
>Fail
>Remember and don't do it next time
>This is """""""skill""""""" and has """"""depth"""""""
>>343055828
>the difficulty is just extra grinding
uh-huh
>>343055828
Grinding isn't efficient at all just play better
>>343058165
Yes, learning from your mistakes is important. Than >>343058007
>>343058171
"Wow the game spawned an enemy that I have no hope of beating at this point sure is difficult!"
>>343058165
This is actually how most combat athletes learn and develop skill. You spar, and find out what works and what doesn't.
Some few JRPGs do actually require some logic to beat stuff.
But the rest is just spam ultima until you win.
>>343058012
>Dark-soulsian
I have never heard this word before, but it sounds so fucking douchey I immediately hate it.
>>343058268
If that's the only experience you've got from playing Etrian Odyssey demo and having your ass handed to you, I feel a bit sorry for you,
>>343057894
Or hardly workin'
>>343055828
>"Wow this game was hard!"
>They're playing a turnbased JRPG
>The difficulty is getting good and learning the game's mechanics instead of being wasting time grinding so you can just brute force your way through the game like a caveman
>>343058360
>If I act condescending and pretend to be right. They might actually buy it!
>>343058268
>doesn't avoid the F.O.E
>doesn't have escape item
you already dun goofed, anon.
>>343055828
>huuurrr every jrpg is braindead like pokemon and persona meme
>>343058760
They are.
>>343058760
>persona
>braindead
Maybe persona 4. Persona 1, 2EP, and 3FES absolutely were not.
>>343058760
>Most stagnant, uninspired and regurgitated shit that only sells because of fanservice with an anime aesthetic
Shit is less surprising than a CoD reveal.
>>343058530
>turn based jrpg are easy!
>can't handle EO
>s-stop being condenscending!
>>343058886
>3FES
>absolutely not
The only difficulty that game had was keeping the AI from acting retarded.
>>343058268
>no hope of beating at this point
still at that ragelope?
Alright, let's get this out of the way.
>>343058958
Sure showed me.
>>343055828
>"Wow this game was hard!"
>They're playing Overwatch
>The difficulty is just swapping heroes
>>343059004
Nah. On hard for most bosses you need to come up with actual strategies to win if they don't have an elemental weakness.
The A.I being unreliable is actually a good mechanic. It makes you have more to consider for what your turn should be.
I love turn-based jrpgs.
That said, anyone who says they are hard is a bullshitter.
And no, SMT meme hardness is not hard.
"OH MY GOD I HAD TO USE A BUFF/DEBUFF!"
>>343059041
Shoot'em ups and rhythm games are hard, sure. But... eventually a lot of that just devolves into memorization.
>>343059123
>Swap to resistant Persona with obligatory "Don't die" skills
>Hard
>Shitty AI is a good mechanic
Escort missions are the true pinnacle of video games.
>>343059041
>fighting games at the top
>smash listed as a party game
Hmm, I wonder what type of person made this list...
>>343058268
The point of FOE is to avoid them at first and try to kill them as early as possible and use the gear you unlocked to get a bit of an edge when fighting the next FOE and so on.
Doing that is comparable to taking the upper path in Sonic games.
Ramming your head against the first FOE and then crying the game gives you an unbeatable challenge is basicaly the scrub's experience with EO in a nutshell.
>>343059041
How can visual novels be ultra casual when the idea of reading so much text immediately turns most people off?
>>343059041
Where does Dwarf Fortress belong in this tier list?
>>343058268
If you didn't blow ass at JRPGs you WOULD have a hope of beating it. That's the whole fucking point.
>>343059041
>arena fps
>casual
>rhythm games
>hardcore
This is how you can tell that list was made by a faggot.
>>343060138
Which rhythm games are you good at?
>>343060178
Mahokore is pretty dope.
>>343059325
>if a game can be cheesed that means there's no real strategy to it!
>no real rebuttals
Persona 4 isn't the only thing in this conversation that is braindead
>>343059676
>Unbeatable challenge
I was saying unbeatable in the sense that at the very start where you're just avoiding them and getting your bearings. Not afterwards when you actually know how to play nigger.
>>343059849
Dwarf Fortress' difficulty is relative to your embark and what you're trying to do.
>>343060178
All I've played is Rhythm Heaven DS. Literally all you do is press buttons to a beat.
>>343058360
>>343058547
>>343059005
>>343059676
>if u used dis spushific cookie cutta shetup too reduce duh are en gee then u'd win u scrub!
>>343060318
Well yeah, but that's all rhythm games isn't it?
>>343060297
>No real rebuttals
>His only rebuttal is an insult
Iron to the knees.
>>343059745
Perseverance is a trait, not a skill
>>343060413
by that logic I guess D&D based games are shit too, right?
fucking lel
>>343060413
Wait, are you telling me games are easy when you follow GameFAQ's?
>>343060537
They are.
>>343060513
I don't need to rebuttal a reply that wasn't a rebuttal you idiot. You literally just disagreed in a rude manner. That's why I insulted you.
I stated why I considered the shitty AI to actually end up being a good mechanic, and you went >implying its a good mechanic
I know, I know, you were "merely pretending"
>>343060318
Rhythm Heaven is just WarioWare with a rhythm theme. It's a party game.
>>343060632
Yet you conveniently ignored when I pointed out that having to baby sit a braindead AI is no different than going through the typical escort mission. I'm so sorry you're getting this asshurt that I insulted babby's first dating sim VN with rpg mechanics slapped on.
>>343060414
Yeah. That's my point. There's no challenge. At all.
>>343060856
See >>343060654
You haven't played a rhythm game.
>>343060841
>butthurt at babby's first dating sim
Meh. It's my least favorite persona other than 4.
>its not different than an escort mission
I would argue the difference being that in many escort missions, you literally cannot win because of AI being so bad. P3 this never happens. Also, you didn't really argue it, you just rudely said
>hurr muh escorts
it's a false equivalency.
>>343060945
How is Rhythm Heaven different from any other rhythm game?
>>343060413
Well gee, I guest youre right, I should have beat the game with a solo medic. how foolish of me to make a working party
>>343061090
I don't know. You tell me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBjU1R5yllc
It's not so much the case anymore. Now enemies level with you in JRPGs. It has that Dead Island effect where you try not to kill anything or it'll take a full mag to down a zombie instead of a couple shots.
And since I like to explore I always fuck myself over.
I don't play JRPGS anymore.
>>343060971
>Generalizing what I said
"Escort missions are the true pinnacle of video games."
>Rudely said
I'm sorry, did you expect someone on /v/ to cuddle you for your retarded opinion?
>it's a false equivalency
Explain. The precedence was that 3FES' party members have such an awful AI that they hinder gameplay as much as they aid, and by your logic shitty AI that makes you take into account more things due to how bad they are is good design. Not that I'm surprised that the only person in the world who enjoys Daikatana says this.
>>343059204
Memorization is still skill.
>>343061362
>dedicated hardware
Whoever plays this shit must have serious autism.
He's not even hitting to a beat.
>>343061362
>It's a gook who spent most of his life practicing one game episode
>>343055828
I guess you've never played any smt
Roguelikes are the most hardcore of turnbased RPGS.
>>343061806
Any decent rhythm game has dedicated hardware, because you can make a game that's actually fun and involving instead of tapping a screen or pressing buttons on a cramped PS2 controller.
>He's not even hitting to a beat.
Exactly. He's hitting to rhythms. Cause you know, it's a rhythm game.
>when even the speedrun requires grinding
>>343062050
Roguelikes are complete garbage
>>343062318
Let me guess.
>What's the point of playing when I don't unlock anything after I die?
>It's RNG!
>Why should I even bother playing when there's no real..."progression"
>lol ascii and tiles a genre for autists
>>343062478
Exactly, can you provide any counter arguments to those points
>there are people that actually had trouble with the earthquake worms in SC
>>343062224
Well, sorry. Very niche genres aren't allowed.
>>343059041
melee should be listed separately from other party games and go in hardcore tier
>>343062678
>>343062658
No. If you can't handle gitting gud and not whining you aren't unlocking stuff ala mobile shit then that's a personal problem
>>343062910
Aha okay so the genre is garbage got it
>>343062704
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJhjdXFs27c
Beat is simply the tempo of the song. Rhythm is the timing of the actual notes.
>Very niche
Have you seriously not even played Guitar Hero or Rock Band? Rhythm games were popular as hell since DDR up until 2010ish when GH and Rock Band killed the genre with endless rehashes.
>>343059041
>moba easiest lol
>prize money 50000$
>fighting le hardest
>prize money 500$
>>343063074
If you believe so. Go back to your auto combat Final Fantasy nth shit.
>>343063262
>casual shit is more popular thus gets more sponsorship
Wow
>>343063270
I will thank you. Enjoy losing your progress and deluding yourself into thinking the game is hardcore because of it
Both needing to know what to do/taking gambles and being able to do it are important to make an interesting game. A game that's all strategy is boring once you know what to do, and a game that's all skill is boring once you're good enough not to mess up. A game that requires both in high amounts is something that can be played endlessly. Assuming the game doesn't have both the only other factors that can keep you playing are crap like atmosphere. This is why complex scoring systems are necessary to keep shmups interesting.
Roguelikes are the exception to the rule, no skill is involved but a good roguelike is a game that you can play literally forever if you care to and not get tired of it.
The current popular opinion that skill is what should matter above all else in a game is completely insane, especially in multiplayer games. If all you care about is how well you can aim a gun you might as well be playing a rail shooter, or sitting in a fighting games' training mode doing combos on a stationary target.
>>343060413
Or you could just use your head and put together a balanced party. It's not exactly rocket science and you sure as hell don't need a guide to do it.
Sometimes you even have to adjust your party to adapt to new conditions. But i can see how "get fire defense and ice attacks for the fire boss" would be pretty hard to figure out without a guide.
>>343063520
>Roguelikes
>no skill is involved
>>343063564
That's literally what I said woman. There's nothing challenging about "Resist its damage as much as possible and do as much damage as possible!"
>>343063615
They are ignorant and don't know any better. They'll see the light one day.
>>343063615
What skill is involved in a roguelike? Do you even know what the word skill refers to in a videogame? It refers to execution. A roguelike is 50% knowing what to do in advance and 50% taking risks to reap rewards. Execution has almost nothing to do with it. It has more in common with Poker than Starcraft.
>>343064284
>Do you even know what the word skill refers to in a videogame?
Depends on the game in question.
>game has backtracking and bosses that move a bit faster and hit harder in NG+
t. any fuck who plays Metroid or Castlevania
>>343063712
There is when you only have so many party slots and skill points to work with. Most jrps aren't like dark souls - you can't just max out your stats and do whatever the fuck you want. Maybe the enemies leading up to the boss use status ailments and getting fire defense for the boss means the enemies will be more dangerous. Maybe you don't have the right status ailments for the job but getting them means less damage. It's a bit more involved than just swapping in your 90% fire resist shield and going about your usual business.
>>343064284
the specific skills needed for a video game is relative to its genre
>"Wow this game is hard!"
>They're playing Senran Kagura Shinovi Versus
>The difficulty is MUH DICK
>>343063183
>Rythm Tengoku is about following the beat
>Beatmania is about following the rhythm
Huh, the more you know...
>>343059041
>Fighting Games
>high
>Arena FPS
>that low
What I like about roguelikes
>fast paced gameplay
>never plays the same
>nearly unlimited replayability
>improvisation and gut feel is more deciding that pure stats
>permadeath means the focus is on actually winning by tooth and nail rather than having big numbers to stare at once you're done
>>343064447
Any decent rpg has trade offs for skills and armor. And the trade offs are minor or have a way to circumvent them as well.
>>343064376
>>343064469
The skill you're referring to in roguelikes would be called strategy in anything else, or Macro in Starcraft. We aren't talking about building houses here, we're talking about videogames. If you're better than me at playing ADOM I wouldn't refer to you as more skilled, I'd say your strategy is more sound. Although realistically I'd just say that you're "better".
>>343064562
Fighting games and arena fps are basically identical in both requiring high levels of strategy and skill, and both being action games centered on avoiding hitboxes and controlling space with your own hitboxes. They should be in the same tier because they're basically the same damn thing. If arena fps should be considered higher it's because of the resource game being more complicated, whereas if fighting games should be considered higher it's because of the more complex execution.
>>343062050
>Threads on /v/ whining that casual shit like dcss is rng garbage a few years ago
good times
Ehh, I think it depends. You can cheese a lot of RPGs with excessive grinding, but there are a fair few where if you don't skip out on the majority of combats, you get reasonable challenges at level with no real extra grinding.
>>343059041
>faggot thinks fighting and MMO shit are above LoL garbage
>>343059204
Apparently you never actually played rhythm games, because they don't involve any memorization unless you are trying to play blindfolded
The Last Remnant is a turn-based JRPG and grinding is the exact opposite of what you want to do.
>>343066993
That game was only "difficult" because dumbasses didn't read the manual.
>>343062910
you did pretty much just prove his point for him.
>"Wow this game was hard!"
>They're playing Quake III
>The difficulty is just learning which places of the map to randomly shoot at to score kills
>>343058171
Masochists only love EO
>>343064758
Is there porn of this guy?
>>343066938
Not him but YOU don't play them.
Rhythm games are just about muscle memory and learning how to read a pattern
>>343068845
Muscle memory =/= Memory
recalling something from your memory does not work like muscle memory. Might as well say that skill does not exist, because literally everything that one could get proficient at involves muscle memory.
>>343069407
> memory =/= Memory
Ok m8.
Also, saying that "everything that one could get proficient at involves muscle memory" is wrong. For exemple, being able to fucking read.
>>343068212
What point?
>>343068593
EO isn't that hard compared to other dungeon crawlers.
>"Wow this game was hard!"
>They're playing EYE
>The difficulty is just understanding what's going on
It's not rocket surgery you dirty jians.
>>343069803
The one where roguelikes not having an exp bar after you die or weapon/armor unlocks to show artificial progression so your brain can pump out dopamine as you delude yourself into thinking you're getting better when you aren't.
>>343069760
Muscle memory: Being able to move on instinct after having practiced something with repetitions. For example reading a pattern, and just subconsciously knowing how to move accordingly without even thinking about it.
Memory: Memorizing something and consciously knowing that something is there. For example, checking out a certain pattern and preparing for it in advance.
Is how I see it
>For exemple, being able to fucking read.
Being able to read quickly works the same as muscle memory. You don't have to think about the letters you see, you just look at them and know what they mean. It's of the same nature, though calling it "muscle memory" would sound wrong
>>343056082
>The difficulty is just memorization
Also grinding. It's still just a JPRG. Just because people like being underleveled in any other JRPG, doesn't make it hard.
>>343070087
That sounds like a slew of bad design and bullshit wrapped up as difficulty.
>>343058315
Well no one pretends that final fantasy is good for the gameplay.
>>343070413
Except that memory isn't "consciously knowing that something is here" but something you've learn (an information, a skill or whatever) in your past ?
What you're thinking about is being able to analyse a situation.
>>343058420
>JRPG
>game is actually timed, the enemy is coming to wreck your shit in X in-game days/months/years
>if you just spend the time grinding instead of searching for weapons and recruiting the right party members then you'll get your shit pushed in and have to start over
Any games that do this?
>>343070781
Well, my point is
>>343059204
sounds wrong because it sounds like even high tier players have to memorize each song and difficulty individually, which simply isn't true. Often, a really good player can even full-combo
an extremely difficult song on his first try.
>>343055828
What's the problem here? Turn based JRPGs can have complex battle system for the people who enjoy them, and have the option of grinding available for people like you who don't like difficulty.
>>343071392
Except OP is referring to ones where in higher difficulties grinding is necessary due to the lack of said complex systems. In short, he's only played shit like final fantasy and persona and thinks this reflects the entire genre.
>>343071392
>Turn based JRPGs can have complex battle system
such as?
>>343071103
Well thats what you've interpreted but the fact is that instead of having to memorize each song you have to memorize each pattern and practice them a lot to be able to do them fast.
And that's what makes these games hard
>>343070826
I think Ephemeral Fantasia is something like that, but you go through a time loop of several days.
>>343060178
bigboys ww@
>>343060413
>play out your party to work well together
>do well in the game
>>343072096
That's what I said, yes.
>wow this game was hard
>they grinded
trap card activated
>>343072067
That puchi's arms are too small to play that.
>>343072270
That game isn't complex, it just got that reputation because dumbasses (like someone said before when someone else posted it) didn't read the manual and got fucked when they realized level and skill progression didn't work like traditional jrpgs.
>>343056082
That argument can be said for ANY single player game dumbass. Look at the speed runs of all your favorite games. They memorized it to oblivion.
>>343059041
TPS should be in hardcore solely because of the Gears of War series.
>>343059106
No the difficulty is getting a fucking retarded team and the game being shit for balance
>>343055828
>"wow this game is good"
>They're playing a JRPG
>the "gameplay" is simplistic turn based shit with no depth or strategy
>>343071632
That's completely right. Still, seeing how far some players can get it is something I find really impressive. They're one of few genre of games that even get close to being purely skill-based.
>>343056082
It really irks me when people discussing Souls concepts or mechanics saying "Dark Souls" instead of just Souls or Soulsborne.
Demon's Souls established all these mechanics and trends, not Dark Souls you fucking PCuck bandwagon piece of shit.
>>343063262
Prize money for SF5 lately is around $20000 actually
>>343072916
>sperging out this hard about the word someone uses for a series
>>343059041
>turn based in ultra casual
chess in ultra casual now?
>>343056319
Life is a grind.
>>343058268
>"Wow the game spawned an enemy that I have no hope of beating at this point sure is difficult!"
That's not how the game works.
>>343055828
>"Wow this game was hard!"
>They're playing a turnbased WRPG
>can't grind
>have to run away from an instant kill ghost that chases you in realtime
>have to summon monsters to fight for you that can't be directly controlled
>every level is a deathtrap with hero parties that go after you
>saving respawns all enemies in a level
I guess it is pretty hard
>>343074218
Read the footnote f@m
>>343055828
Something's hard alright.
>>343077815
I like how the box straight up has to tell you you're a little bitch who needs to be good at the game
>>343077815
Are there any JRPG equivalents to this, or is the hardest thing from the genre EO?
>>343059041
rts and fighting belong in pro
shmup and rhythm games are casual garbage
>>343078760
EO isn't even the closest thing in the genre to hard, goddamn you a scrub son.
>>343078760
There's a japanese port of it that makes it a bit easier.
>>343078849
That's why I'm asking nigger.
>>343072916
It bothers me too and I don't think the opinion of someone who started later in the series counts for as much.
>>343055828
>JRPG
>It's actually hard
>Grinding doesn't really help
What gamethat isn't from the Souls series since I know /v/ is obsessed with that shit?
>>343079090
Pick a SaGa game.
If you REALLY want to get backwards in that grinding will actually level your ass down, then Unlimited SaGa.
>>343055828
>that image
reminds me of that scene from Kissxsis when his classmate gave him a quick flash before school.
show is terrible but that scene stuck with me for some reason.
>>343055828
This is typically why a lot of JRPGs have anti-grind functionality. Some games will even make it way fucking hard to reach a really optimal level for a boss or something, intentionally keeping you a few levels below it, and then it's still a challenge.
>>343070087
Wizardry random battles and bosses are actually easier than EO, the difference is that you're punished HARD for trying and failing. Wizardry IV was made in hell by the devil himself though, fuck that game.
>>343060413
Well yes, that's how challenging RPGs work out. Get your shit together and plan properly.
>>343071632
"Muscle memory has been used synonymously with motor learning, which is a form of procedural memory that involves consolidating a specific motor task into memory through repetition. When a movement is repeated over time, a long-term muscle memory is created for that task, eventually allowing it to be performed without conscious effort. This process decreases the need for attention and creates maximum efficiency within the motor and memory systems. Examples of muscle memory are found in many everyday activities that become automatic and improve with practice, such as riding a bicycle, typing on a keyboard, typing in a PIN, playing a musical instrument, or martial arts."
Five seconds in Google, you fucking faggot. You've never played a rhythm game, don't act like you know shit
>>343062678
I didn't realize they only made quakes when hit at first.
Then I realized that evil eye wrecks them.
>>343079090
>since I know /v/ is obsessed with that shit
hey 2011
>>343059041
Would Vanquish count as "casual tier"?
>"This game requires actual skill and prediction"
>They're playing a fighting game
>Skill is just muscle memory and blind guesswork.
>>343059041
>Hardcore Tier: Roguelike
>Ultra - Casual Tier: Turn- based games
wat
>>343059041
make way for ultra casual
>>343081102
>>343081259
*Read the footnote you dumb niggers
>>343077815
>West made hard RPGs with complexity while the east made walk five spaces and attack to win
>Now both sides to the genre are casual shit for most of it
>>343081364
I expected some games to be exceptions, not an entire genre.
>>343070087
>>343079653
I've been somewhat interested in the Wizardry games as a means of getting into FP dungeon crawlers, but I wonder if I should play them (or the remakes on the Saturn/PS1, or just go with something more modern like the EO Untold series.
And to show I've been thinking about this for some time, Wizardry IV WAS remade -once-, properly, by the Japanese, and it is on the PC Engine CD.
>>343058760
Persona is harder than the average jrpg game, it's just the easier of the SMT games which are bullshit hard by themselves.
>>343082482
>Persona is harder than the average jrpg game
The first two, yeah.
>>343082482
>SMT
Just use buffs and fuse demons.
>>343059849
Nowhere, this list is a waste of time, and displays the kind of lack of analysis and critical thinking you would expect from someone who's kind of a moron or at least too biased to be responsible for making this kind of list.
They seem to highly rate games about "doing" things or execution, games where someone else has generally solved the game for you, and underrate games where you have to do that yourself, generally, or at least that's where the challenge is. It's less in the exeuction (although if you neglect something, you'll get fucked or have a harder time) and more about untangling what to do.
It takes all kinds in life, and some people clearly are not equal, but it's not like strategic stuff is "casual". It might also be that some examples are not fully realized in general, or not at their best versus the CPU. Some such games of course, are utterly ruthless and face you with the same problems a general has, things like having the guts to stick to your strategy as the final arbiter of decisions and one most responsible, the ability to stick to it in the face of pressure, hell, just shorten it to pressure.
The sheer pressure of being responsible for so much and having to mentally focus on a tough situation emotionally and intellectually is a tough thing.
>>343080893
Yes, abusing slow-mo and I-Frame rolls because anything else will get you killed is not challenging, just stupid. The game is more interesting on lower difficulties when you're free to mess around.
>>343082565
>be in persoan 4 dungeon
>see group of enemies I've never seen
>use aoe physical damge move
>all those shadows have reflect on physical damage
>I die and get an instant gameover and have to go back to my last save which was an hour ago
>le persona 4 and 3 are babby easy meem
An easy jrpg wouldn't bull cheap shit like that but all the supposedly hard jrpgs do this sort of thing. Like I said P3/4 are harder than the average jrpg. I played a lot of them and Persona 3/4 require some thought, if you don't fuse the right personas and movesets or use the wrong move you can get punished hard. Just because it isn't as hard as nocturne or digital devil doesn't make them easy games.
>>343083819
>I unsta-kell'd muhself
>IT'S HERD, AHM SCURRD
>>343083819
>Play pokemon
>Vivillon uses powder
>Tell mega evolved charizard to use flamethrower
>Damage reflects back on me and 1hkos him
An easy jrpg wouldn't pull bs like this.
Some people are a bit harsh. For a lot of people who are used to RPGs being totally brain-dead, like Square's output, a game that actually requires some iota of thought, like SMT Persona takes some getting adjusted to. There was a time that you sucked at the game, too.
>>343084365
The only time I sucked at Persona was in the beginning when I didn't know what enemy did what.
>>343084220
>I'm dumb enough to use a fire move against the only pokemon who can use powder
>Vivillion kills one of my 6 pokemon
>I oneshot it with another pokemon anyway and carry on with no lost of progress
>>343083931
>>343083819
>Make retarded decision
>Get punished for it
>"WOW THIS GAME IS HARD"
>>343085403
Yes. If a game were easy you wouldn't be punished for making a careless decision. If I were using a little thought I wouldn't have killed myself. Thanks for actively proving my point.
>people ITT think EO is hard
Why does everyone make it out to be a super hard game?
>>343072623
>speedruns
>not casually playing the game
>>343085709
Because it's one of the few jrpgs where you have to use a handful of braincells to get through.
>>343085709
Because people don't know how to deal with FOEs.
>>343085709
Like every other Atlus RPG it's hard when you play it for the first time and piss easy once you understand how it works.
>>343087534
What's the secret? I'm having a lot of trouble in 3 that I can only solve by auto-walking in circles. My guys are all level 28 and I'm struggling just to walk through dungeon 4 black temple.
>>343056082
But it's not? It's like Monster Hunter. If you're careful enough, you can beat any boss on your first encounter (mostly)
